Article Marketing Conundrum

by Kim Lauren Banned
48 replies
  • SEO
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Somebody suggested this site on another forum and for about a month I have been reading with great interest. I finally have a question and would be grateful for any thoughtful responses to what I have to ask.

I bought an ebook which suggested I go into competitive markets and carve my own slice of the market. My only problem is that I have yet to see any kind of success after almost 2 months of trying. I write one article per day, post it on my site, ping it with Pingler, and then manually submit to social bookmarking sites.

Then I submit the article to about 5 other article directories. From what I have read here, the best I can hope for from article directory submissions is a short burst of traffic and hopefully some other website owners will choose to publish my article on their websites. But this is a slow process for me and I have been trying now for almost 2 months.

I don't think I have a chance ranking for what I think are very competitive keywords with only links from article directories, so I joined a few forums and also try to comment on sites that are within the niche I have chosen.

What I'd like to know from anyone having success with article marketing is how long it took you to see some success and whether there is anything else I could be doing to help myself along.
#article #conundrum #marketing
  • Profile picture of the author Andyhenry
    I was writing articles for a couple of years before I got decent results from them. I used to get a lot of traffic but it took me a while to realise there's different types of traffic and that my articles needed a purpose above just being interesting.

    Make sure that your articles are good but that they also effectively achieve pre-selling or whatever their purpose is. Don't waste your time just writing content for the sake of it.
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    • Profile picture of the author myob
      In highly competitive markets my strategy is not in ranking but just getting quality traffic. Ranking is secondary. After submitting articles to a few of the top directories, I also send them directly to websites and targeted ezine publishers for syndication. In addition, advertising solo ads in niche ezines drives traffic and sales.
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      • Profile picture of the author Kim Lauren
        Banned
        Originally Posted by myob View Post

        In highly competitive markets my strategy is not in ranking but just getting quality traffic. Ranking is secondary. After submitting articles to a few of the top directories, I also send them directly to websites and targeted ezine publishers for syndication. In addition, advertising solo ads in niche ezines drives traffic and sales.
        In order to send articles to websites and targeted ezine publishers for syndication, some kind of relationship has to be first established, yes?
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        • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
          Banned
          Originally Posted by Kim Lauren View Post

          I bought an ebook which suggested I go into competitive markets and carve my own slice of the market.
          That's one thing (and a lucrative thing when you actually manage to carve it), but to do it from scratch by using competitive keywords is quite another.

          Originally Posted by Kim Lauren View Post

          My only problem is that I have yet to see any kind of success after almost 2 months of trying. I write one article per day, post it on my site, ping it with Pingler, and then manually submit to social bookmarking sites.

          Then I submit the article to about 5 other article directories.
          You're doing nothing wrong.

          You're not doing enough (as you know), but nothing of what you're doing is wrong.

          Originally Posted by Kim Lauren View Post

          I don't think I have a chance ranking for what I think are very competitive keywords with only links from article directories
          This is for sure. They're all non-context-relevant, PR-0 backlinks, regardless of the PR of the directory's home-pages. But that's why Paul's reply just above is so appropriate and significant.

          Originally Posted by Kim Lauren View Post

          What I'd like to know from anyone having success with article marketing is how long it took you to see some success and whether there is anything else I could be doing to help myself along.
          It took me 4 - 5 months, but the first 3 months of that was completely wasted trying things that didn't work at all. Having learned a bit and started again, writing for syndication and promoting different products on my little sites to which the articles linked, it took me less than 2 months. But I learned a lot.

          Originally Posted by Kim Lauren View Post

          In order to send articles to websites and targeted ezine publishers for syndication, some kind of relationship has to be first established, yes?
          Those are relationships of the type which can be formed, with patience, just by writing for syndication and dumping your articles in EZA (after publishing them yourself and getting them indexed on your own sites, obviously), and then contacting the people who re-publish them. But you can also approach such potential re-publishers pro-actively.

          There are some comments about "writing for syndication" here, if they help.

          Good luck!
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          • Profile picture of the author bretski
            My recommendation would be to read everything that you can by Alexa. I have learned a lot from her (and continue to). She's pretty dang clever!
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          • Profile picture of the author Kim Lauren
            Banned
            Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

            You're not doing enough (as you know),
            Writing for syndication is something that has not really been a goal of mine. As things stand now, I am writing for traffic and to rank for keywords. There is only so much I can do when it comes to writing about payday loans (my niche), and I don't know for certain if what I am writing about is something that I can actually get republished because anyone also writing about this subject probably doesn't want a link going to my site.

            I write these long articles that take me an equally long time to write and this is what I am hoping is going to help me in the long run. But my subject is limited, so I think there is only so much I can write without repeating myself. So I think backlinks will make the difference, although I could be mistaken because I don't have the experience yet.

            I think what I am trying to get at is how many and what kind of backlinks are successful article marketers building per day. Should I be automating all of that? Is this how you do it? With enough quality backlinks, I should stand a chance, don't you think?
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            • Profile picture of the author myob
              @Kim

              Besides what Alexa has advised (ie you're not doing enough, etc ), I might add you should make it a goal to become syndicated, because you are in an extremely competitive and crowded niche. That will not only drive higher quality traffic, but at the same time generate backlinks. You really don't need a huge number of syndicated articles to see dramatic results.
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              • Profile picture of the author Kim Lauren
                Banned
                Originally Posted by myob View Post

                I might add you should make it a goal to become syndicated, because you are in an extremely competitive and crowded niche. That will not only drive higher quality backlinks, but at the same time generate backlinks.
                This is more effective than just searching for blogs and sites to make a comment on? I could maybe post 20 or more well-written comments per hour and have these comments show up on pages with a decent page rank. I see it as fairly difficult, being so new to a niche, to approach other website owners about posting one of my articles on their sites. Even then, those sites will feature a post of mine on a page with no page rank, right?
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                • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
                  Banned
                  Originally Posted by Kim Lauren View Post

                  I think what I am trying to get at is how many and what kind of backlinks are successful article marketers building per day.
                  My impression is very much that "numbers of backlinks" is a highly relevant concept to unsuccessful article marketers, who typically have huge numbers of them (mostly extremely poor quality ones). Hope this comment doesn't offend too many people.

                  Originally Posted by Kim Lauren View Post

                  Should I be automating all of that? Is this how you do it?
                  Certainly not. (I have done some "mindless backlink-getting", rightly or wrongly, and I now do less and less, in proportion to the overall size of my business, both as it grows and as I gain more experience and understanding).

                  Originally Posted by Kim Lauren View Post

                  With enough quality backlinks, I should stand a chance, don't you think?
                  Maybe, yes ... but "automation" and "quality", in so many aspects of internet marketing, are quite close to being mutually exclusive. (That will offend some people, but they're people with either financial or emotional investments in automation, and there's nothing I can do about that!).

                  Originally Posted by Kim Lauren View Post

                  Even then, those sites will feature a post of mine on a page with no page rank, right?
                  Maybe ... maybe not. It doesn't matter all that much. Don't get too hung up on page-rank. It's only one aspect of ranking, and probably a less important one than people claim. What matters is to have context-relevant backlinks. And even on some of those PR-0 pages, your articles will be in front of pre-targeted traffic: traffic that other people have "pre-targeted" for you. One of those can be worth thousands of article directory backlinks.
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                  • Profile picture of the author Kim Lauren
                    Banned
                    Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

                    My impression is very much that "numbers of backlinks" is a highly relevant concept to unsuccessful article marketers, who typically have huge numbers of them (mostly extremely poor quality ones). Hope this comment doesn't offend too many people.
                    With that said, how many backlinks are you usually building per day then? Your approach to this cannot solely be limited to contacting website owners to publish your latest article, right?
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                    • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
                      Banned
                      Originally Posted by Kim Lauren View Post

                      With that said, how many backlinks are you usually building per day then?
                      Over the last 3 months, less than one per day per niche on average (but that's excluding those attached to articles).

                      Originally Posted by Kim Lauren View Post

                      Your approach to this cannot solely be limited to contacting website owners to publish your latest article, right?
                      No, of course ... my business involves plenty of other things (such as writing all the autoresponder emails to go out to my 8 different lists!), writing an article (nearly) every day (not one per niche - one altogether!), planning, researching, updating my websites, and plenty of other routine stuff, too. But very little backlinking, to be honest. I do some forum posting (in niche forums only, so they're "context-relevant") and a little bit of blog-posting, too (again, context-relevant).

                      I do employ an outsourced contractor in India who does plenty of pinging and some social bookmarking and this sort of stuff, but I'm using his services less and less all the time (as well as wondering whether I ever really needed them as much as I thought I did, to be honest).
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                      • Profile picture of the author Kim Lauren
                        Banned
                        Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

                        Over the last 3 months, less than one per day per niche on average (but that's excluding those attached to articles).
                        So just aim for 1 or 2 quality backlinks per day? I thought it would take more than this!
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                        • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
                          Banned
                          Originally Posted by Kim Lauren View Post

                          So just aim for 1 or 2 quality backlinks per day? I thought it would take more than this!
                          I've done more than that in the past. How beneficial it was, or whether I needed to, I don't know.

                          I know that there are sites ranking at the top of Google for some pretty competitive keywords with under 100 traceable backlinks each, but they're quality, context-relevant backlinks.

                          As I said, my impression is very much that "numbers of backlinks" is a highly relevant concept to unsuccessful article marketers, who typically have huge numbers of them.

                          Time is honestly better spent in reading and re-reading Paul's posts above than in thinking about numbers of backlinks.
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                          • Profile picture of the author Kim Lauren
                            Banned
                            Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

                            I know that there are sites ranking at the top of Google for some pretty competitive keywords with under 100 traceable backlinks each, but they're quality, context-relevant backlinks.
                            The links would have to be from some pages with very high page rank, no?

                            Do you think 100 of these traceable backlinks in the form of blog comments could possibly get the job done?
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                            • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
                              Banned
                              Originally Posted by Kim Lauren View Post

                              The links would have to be from some pages with very high page rank, no?
                              Some of them, probably, but don't get too hung up on page-rank. It's only one aspect of ranking, and probably a less important one than people claim. What matters is to have context-relevant backlinks. And even on some of those PR-0 pages, your articles will be in front of pre-targeted traffic: traffic that other people have "pre-targeted" for you. One of those can be worth thousands of article directory backlinks.

                              Originally Posted by Kim Lauren View Post

                              Do you think 100 of these traceable backlinks in the form of blog comments could possibly get the job done?
                              It will for "anchovy and cabbage soup recipes". It won't for "make money online". There are no real, quantifiable answers to these questions, Kim. I promise I don't mean it impolitely or critically in any way, but it will help you if you try to stop looking at all these things in quantitative terms.
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                              • Profile picture of the author Kim Lauren
                                Banned
                                Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

                                There are no real, quantifiable answers to these questions, Kim. I promise I don't mean it impolitely or critically in any way, but it will help you if you try to stop looking at all these things in quantitative terms.
                                Thanks and I am trying to not view these things in quantitative terms. I have never heard of a successful article marketer who only builds one backlink per day, outside of the ones included in articles, and I found that intriguing.

                                Everything rides on the quality of the article then, right? Without a very well-written article, I won't get very far. And maybe this is the reason I have been thinking of backlinks in terms of numbers.
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                                • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
                                  Banned
                                  Originally Posted by Kim Lauren View Post

                                  I have never heard of a successful article marketer who only builds one backlink per day, outside of the ones included in articles, and I found that intriguing.
                                  Kim, there are successful article marketers who build NO backlinks additional to those in their articles. SEO is not a part of everyone's business.

                                  Originally Posted by Kim Lauren View Post

                                  Everything rides on the quality of the article then, right? Without a very well-written article, I won't get very far.
                                  If you're wanting to get your articles syndicated, then they have to be work that other people want of their websites (and/or in their ezines/newsletters), yes. And in the sense that that decision's clearly made by people on a "qualititative" basis, then yes, it's clearly quality-related. They have to be different sorts of articles. Nobody wants to syndicate a 300-word sales article that's been written as a peg on which to hang a backlink with the words "click here" as anchor text.

                                  Through syndication, quality can lead to some quantity. Quantity alone leads nowhere.
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                                  • Profile picture of the author Kim Lauren
                                    Banned
                                    Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

                                    Kim, there are successful article marketers who build NO backlinks additional to those in their articles. SEO is not a part of everyone's business.
                                    For these people who build no backlinks, their strategy is doing all they can to contact other site owners within similar niches to publish their content?
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                                • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
                                  Originally Posted by Kim Lauren View Post

                                  Thanks and I am trying to not view these things in quantitative terms. I have never heard of a successful article marketer who only builds one backlink per day, outside of the ones included in articles, and I found that intriguing.

                                  Everything rides on the quality of the article then, right? Without a very well-written article, I won't get very far. And maybe this is the reason I have been thinking of backlinks in terms of numbers.
                                  Kim, here's another angle from which to look at things...

                                  I do very little active backlinking, yet my links do grow. How? When a relevant site or blog picks up one of my articles, I get one or more links from that site, depending on that site's structure.

                                  If I've done a good job writing the article, other sites and blogs will link to that article, increasing the value of the links to my site. It can become like the ever-widening rings you see after dropping a pebble in a pond.

                                  Just because I'm not building the links doesn't mean they are not being built.

                                  Payday loans is a tough market. I'm guessing you're promoting some kind of CPA offer. You want people to come to your site and either fill out a form or click to a vendor to fill out that form, correct? If so, I understand why you might be finding it difficult to find new ways of writing positively about such loans.

                                  So if it's too tough getting past the guy at the front door, look for an unlocked side door...

                                  Instead of writing about payday loans, write about the situations that lead people to consider them.
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                                  • Profile picture of the author Kim Lauren
                                    Banned
                                    Originally Posted by JohnMcCabe View Post

                                    Instead of writing about payday loans, write about the situations that lead people to consider them.
                                    Very simple and straightforward point, but very well taken; so thank you.
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                        • Profile picture of the author DireStraits
                          Originally Posted by Kim Lauren View Post

                          So just aim for 1 or 2 quality backlinks per day? I thought it would take more than this!
                          Kim,

                          I don't mean to sound rude or brash here, but you seem to be attempting to extract a definitive answer to a question for which there is no definitive answer.

                          If you need 100 backlinks to achieve a Page 1, position 1-5 ranking, and you can get them over a period of 3 days, why would you limit yourself to only acquiring 1-2 backlinks per day?

                          Whenever you find (or are presented with) a good backlinking opportunity - seize it. If one per day is all you can manage, then that's what it'll have to be. If you can manage more, build more. If you can pay someone to build more for you, then do that.

                          "How many backlinks per day?" is simply a question for which there is no definitive, meaningful, helpful answer. It depends on your competition, and the time, money and resources you have at your disposal.
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                          • Profile picture of the author Kim Lauren
                            Banned
                            Originally Posted by DireStraits View Post

                            If you need 100 backlinks to achieve a Page 1, position 1-5 ranking, and you can get them over a period of 3 days, why would you limit yourself to only acquiring 1-2 backlinks per day?
                            I think I would either limit myself or go crazy with the number of backlinks based on the results I was seeing. If one backlink from a site with a high a page rank and also within my niche is going to help my keyword ranking in search engines better than submitting the same article to 100s of article directories, then I'll spend more time on the former method.

                            But, as it stands right now, I haven't the experience to make this call, and that is why I asked about the number of backlinks people are daily building who are having success with this method of marketing. I'm only asking for a rough estimate.
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                • Profile picture of the author myob
                  Originally Posted by Kim Lauren View Post

                  This is more effective than just searching for blogs and sites to make a comment on? I could maybe post 20 or more well-written comments per hour and have these comments show up on pages with a decent page rank. I see it as fairly difficult, being so new to a niche, to approach other website owners about posting one of my articles on their sites. Even then, those sites will feature a post of mine on a page with no page rank, right?
                  I really cannot add to Alexa's encyclopedic knowledge on the nuances of writing , but here are some specifics for locating possible syndication sources which may also add backlinks without working so hard.

                  Search through the Directory of Ezines (directoryofezines.com) for ezine publishers in your niche. Most of them are hungry for relevant content which is why your articles get picked up from the directories.

                  If you can make these publishers' job easier by consistently providing them with high quality articles suitable to their subscribers, you are far ahead of the game. Rather than waiting for perhaps several months for them to find your articles, you can be published within a few days.

                  And when several publishers request you as a regular contributor (syndication), there really is no better endorsement to those subscriber bases. You not only have a laser-targeted audience, but also traffic-generating quality backlinks.

                  The DOE costs $197 for unlimited use, but it is well worth the investment and may be even considered to be among my most valued resources.
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                  • Profile picture of the author Kim Lauren
                    Banned
                    Originally Posted by myob View Post

                    Search through the Directory of Ezines (directoryofezines.com) for ezine publishers in your niche. Most of them are hungry for relevant content which is why your articles get picked up from the directories.

                    If you can make these publishers' job easier by consistently providing them with high quality articles suitable to their subscribers, you are far ahead of the game. Rather than waiting for perhaps several months for them to find your articles, you can be published within a few days.

                    And when these publishers request you as a regular contributor, there really is no better endorsement to that subscriber base. You not only have a laser-targeted audience, but also traffic-generating backlinks.

                    The DOE costs $197 for unlimited use, but it is well worth the investment and may be even considered to be among my most valued resources.
                    Many thanks for the suggestion. So instead of spending time submitting to article directories for a backlink that is next to useless, I should spend my time trying to find sites within my niche that may want to publish my articles. Or do both.

                    Is it too much to press my luck to ask you what other backlinking methods you have found useful to bring consistent traffic to your site?
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                    • Profile picture of the author myob
                      Originally Posted by Kim Lauren View Post

                      Many thanks for the suggestion. So instead of spending time submitting to article directories for a backlink that is next to useless, I should spend my time trying to find sites within my niche that may want to publish my articles. Or do both.

                      Is it too much to press my luck to ask you what other backlinking methods you have found useful to bring consistent traffic to your site?
                      Backlinks have very little relevance for me, because high ranking is impossible in the very competitive markets I sell to. Most of the time my sites are nowhere to be found in the top 10,000.

                      So there really is nothing I do for backlinks besides submitting articles to a few directories and a few hundred ezine publishers. There is certainly a purpose for having backlinks, but it is not very effective when starting fresh in hot niches.

                      Rather than focusing on only one method that may work for somone else, try other marketing methods, test them, and find what works for you. Unlike what so many gurus try to say for their own reasons, there is seldom only one best "fits all" method.
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                      • Profile picture of the author Kim Lauren
                        Banned
                        Originally Posted by myob View Post

                        So there really is nothing I do for backlinks besides submitting articles to a few directories and a few hundred ezine publishers.
                        You found these publishers through the directory you suggested earlier, or possibly some combination of this and the experience of learning who had previously published an article and through subsequent contact with these publishers - something along those lines?
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                        • Profile picture of the author myob
                          Originally Posted by Kim Lauren View Post

                          You found these publishers through the directory you suggested earlier, or possibly some combination of this and the experience of learning who had previously published an article and through subsequent contact with these publishers - something along those lines?
                          Exactly, and along these very well written lines also:

                          Originally Posted by Kim Lauren View Post

                          ...Everything rides on the quality of the article then, right? Without a very well-written article, I won't get very far. And maybe this is the reason I have been thinking of backlinks in terms of numbers.
                          You are doing well, grasshopper!
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  • Profile picture of the author Sam90
    Kim-

    Sounds like you are on the right track and utilizing free sites like EZA and Hub pages to market your articles. One quick suggestion is to become active on blogs within your niche. I have had opportunities to guest blog on sites because I was an active participant in the community. More eyes will then be reading your material and increase traffic. Guest blogging also gives you another link and up the SEO ladder you go.
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  • Profile picture of the author grannywriteswell
    Hi Kim

    I would also suggest that when you are writing your articles make the last paragraph lead naturally into clicking the link for your site. So for example you could be writing a "how-to" article and then include something like "to read more about how to do XYZ click here" type thing. You can use your bio box to do things like that as well, so that the reader will automatically click on your link if they are interested in what you have to say, and want to keep reading.

    Best of luck
    Ellen
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  • Profile picture of the author Fun to Write
    Take a look at the competitive market you're in and what type of information you're presenting to the public. If you are promoting content that is general in nature, you'll have to write more articles in order to be competitive with established sites.

    If you focus on sub-niches of your main niche, then you'll have a better chance of attracting traffic from smaller groups of people.
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  • Profile picture of the author CatherineC
    Banned
    The whole "backlinking" nonsense has really gotten out of control again since Allen allowed it back on the forum.

    I understand the value, but I wonder how many lurkers are just like poor Kim here, trying to attack an impenetrable niche where the money keywords have pros with over 50k decent PR backlinks already established...

    The best advice, ever, is what Alexa and myob are telling you: Quality content submitted to Quality destinations.

    That's it.

    And you can forget about "SEO, backlinks, indexing, linkwheels" and all of the other nonsense that's being parrotted by those looking to take money out of your wallet (or purse).

    Bruce Lee once said that "There's always someone out there who's better than you are. Always".

    I apply that to backlinking and SEO, and say "There's always someone out there who will be better than you are at it for the keywords that matter. Always."

    Syndication really does seem to seperate the winners from the losers in most article marketing efforts beyond very drilled-down niches that can be dominated.
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    • Profile picture of the author Kim Lauren
      Banned
      Originally Posted by CatherineC View Post

      Quality content submitted to Quality destinations.

      That's it.

      And you can forget about "SEO, backlinks, indexing, linkwheels" and all of the other nonsense that's being parrotted by those looking to take money out of your wallet (or purse).
      I'm with you Catherine. I do think, though, I may have chosen too competitive of a niche for me to be submitting my articles to websites for the kind of syndication of which you speak, because, I suspect, most of the relevant sites who could publish my content happen to be competing for the same business as me.
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      • Profile picture of the author CatherineC
        Banned
        Originally Posted by Kim Lauren View Post

        I'm with you Catherine. I do think, though, I may have chosen too competitive of a niche for me to be submitting my articles to websites for the kind of syndication of which you speak, because, I suspect, most of the relevant sites who could publish my content happen to be competing for the same business as me.
        Maybe, but don't sell yourself short as a writer. If you can turn out quality content there will always be demand for it.

        That's why we don't play their game...we're writers, why the hell would we try to out-SEO some Indian PHD who has Google's algoritm down pat and can mechanically dominate the results for major kws?

        Make them play our game...becuase of most them are hindered by English being a second language, so WE are the PHDs of that field and can crush them on quality.

        Took me a long time to understand the lesson the others are preaching here about syndication, I am drawn to software and analysis so it clouded my judgement. In the end, I decided I'm not playing their game on their court.

        I'll make them play it on mine...just as you can too Kim as it seems you can put a sentence or two together quite well.
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        • Profile picture of the author Kim Lauren
          Banned
          Originally Posted by CatherineC View Post

          Took me a long time to understand the lesson the others are preaching here about syndication, I am drawn to software and analysis so it clouded my judgement. In the end, I decided I'm not playing their game on their court.
          What about your overall strategy did you change that made a positive impact for you?

          For me, I just have been trying to write 800 or words or so on a keyword and make it readable and engaging, submit it to my site and a few article directories. After that I'm just about done with the article except for building backlinks to it through more article submissions, forum comments, and blog comments.

          This is the road to nowhere, do you think?
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          • Profile picture of the author CatherineC
            Banned
            Originally Posted by Kim Lauren View Post

            What about your overall strategy did you change that made a positive impact for you?

            For me, I just have been trying to write 800 or words or so on a keyword and make it readable and engaging, submit it to my site and a few article directories. After that I'm just about done with the article except for building backlinks to it through more article submissions, forum comments, and blog comments.

            This is the road to nowhere, do you think?
            Definitely. Article marketing is VERY overblown on this site, every time a thread pops up you have the few people making money with it by doing it correctly drowning out the 99.9% of people who are GOING BROKE doing it.

            It's not 2003. Bum marketing does NOT work in the hands of most. You've got to have a great funnel, conversions out the wazoo, incredible copy, the perfect product, etc etc etc.

            But if you go the route of syndication the traffic will be more targetted, you'll be able to convert higher even as you learn what conversion even is...you'll be able to stumble a bit without wanting to quit...which you absolutely will do if you keep using bum methods that haven't worked in years.

            Just one girl's opinion, there will be others. But this thread serves as a small beacon in the fog, helping the masses understand that yes, article marketing IS dead, despite the smart-ass threads from diehards claiming otherwise simply because their process was dialed in years ago with research/testing/metrics.

            Make it easy on yourself and establish relationships with the gatekeepers in your niche. Plenty of blog owners and forum owners also who are more than happy to hear your story, particularly if you're a women (it's helped me get a foot in the door).
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            • Profile picture of the author Kim Lauren
              Banned
              Originally Posted by CatherineC View Post

              Definitely. Article marketing is VERY overblown on this site, every time a thread pops up you have the few people making money with it by doing it correctly drowning out the 99.9% of people who are GOING BROKE doing it.

              It's not 2003. Bum marketing does NOT work in the hands of most. You've got to have a great funnel, conversions out the wazoo, incredible copy, the perfect product, etc etc etc.

              But if you go the route of syndication the traffic will be more targetted, you'll be able to convert higher even as you learn what conversion even is...you'll be able to stumble a bit without wanting to quit...which you absolutely will do if you keep using bum methods that haven't worked in years.

              Just one girl's opinion, there will be others. But this thread serves as a small beacon in the fog, helping the masses understand that yes, article marketing IS dead, despite the smart-ass threads from diehards claiming otherwise simply because their process was dialed in years ago with research/testing/metrics.

              Make it easy on yourself and establish relationships with the gatekeepers in your niche. Plenty of blog owners and forum owners also who are more than happy to hear your story, particularly if you're a women (it's helped me get a foot in the door).
              Thanks for replying again. So, from what I just read, if I keep on going the way I have, I shouldn't expect a whole lot. In all honesty, I was hoping, at the very least, to rank in the search engines for some keywords with enough consistency from what I was doing.

              The difficult part for me is going to be adjusting my mindset and start searching for other related blogs to submit my articles to, which, right now, seems a bit of a daunting prospect for me. But the method you describe will put my content, for sure, in front of targeted audiences ... and even if the page it is on has a low page rank, it still is much better than a link from a page with a page rank of O on some obscure article directory. Right?

              Do you submit to directoryofezines.com and other similar sites like MYOB mentioned earlier in this thread?
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              • Profile picture of the author myob
                Originally Posted by Kim Lauren View Post

                ....Do you submit to directoryofezines.com and other similar sites like MYOB mentioned earlier in this thread?
                I just wanted to step in here for a bit of clarification. The Directory of Ezines is not something for which you would submit your articles. It is nothing at all like an article directory or repository. All it does is list ezine publishers organized by niche, with publisher contact info, demographics, number of subscribers, whether articles are accepted, ad rates, etc. There are no other sites for which I am aware that has such comprehensive or comparable resources for writers and marketers. And, I should add, am not affiliated in any way. Submiting your articles to these ezines directly (in addition to major article directories) will give you nearly immediate results and better targeting especially in the extremly competitive markets where ranking is nearly impossible.
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                • Profile picture of the author Kim Lauren
                  Banned
                  Originally Posted by myob View Post

                  I just wanted to step in here for a bit of clarification. The Directory of Ezines is not something for which you would submit your articles. It is nothing at all like an article directory or repository. All it does is list ezine publishers organized by niche, with publisher contact info, demographics, number of subscribers, whether articles are accepted, ad rates, etc. There are no other sites for which I am aware that has such comprehensive or comparable resources for writers and marketers. And, I should add not affiliated in any way.
                  Thanks for the clarification! I have been reading the sales page of their site.

                  Do you use this kind of site for anything more than trying to get your articles published on sites that contain related content?
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                  • Profile picture of the author myob
                    Of course, Kim. The DOE is just a tool, just as SEO, backlinks, PPC, meta tags, site maps, etc, and don't even get me started on offline marketing. I use DOE for articles as well as for targeted advertising such as solo ads.

                    If the only tool you have in your tool box is a hammer, then you're limited on options. In my opinion, many people even in this thread seem to have only one tool, and wonder why they're not getting results by hammering away; writing only for keyword backlinks and submitting only to article directories.
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                    • Profile picture of the author Kim Lauren
                      Banned
                      Originally Posted by myob View Post

                      Of course, Kim. The DOE is just a tool, just as SEO, backlinks, PPC, meta tags, site maps, etc, and don't even get me started on offline marketing. I use DOE for articles as well as for targeted advertising such as solo ads.

                      If the only tool you have in your tool box is a hammer, then you're limited on options. In my opinion, many people even in this thread seem to have only one tool, and wonder why they're not getting results by hammering away by writing only for keyword backlinks.
                      Thanks again for replying, Paul! I appreciate your insights.

                      I'm not so much in to writing for keyword backlinks any longer. I've had a belly full of that and want to try something different.

                      I'll definitely pay for the Directory of Ezines site and thank you again for your suggestion. Hopefully, it will give me a good head start for consistently getting my articles approved on sites that can send me targeted traffic.
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                    • Profile picture of the author Kim Lauren
                      Banned
                      Originally Posted by myob View Post

                      I use DOE for articles as well as for targeted advertising such as solo ads.
                      Paul, may I ask you this about the solo ads: how's that going for you? Is that kind of thing pretty profitable for you? I ask because I am going through all the introductory stuff in the directoryofezines.com site and the idea of solo ads seems interesting.
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  • A lot of the questions asked by people are answered by Google themselves if you take a chance to look around.

    Take this for example:

    Ranking
    Sites' positions in our search results are determined based on a number of factors designed to provide end-users with helpful, accurate search results. These factors are explained in more detail at Technology overview · Corporate Information · About.

    In general, webmasters can improve the rank of their sites by increasing the number of high-quality sites that link to their pages. For more information about improving your site's visibility in the Google search results, we recommend reviewing our Webmaster Guidelines. They outline core concepts for maintaining a Google-friendly website.

    Also:

    Search
    Co-founder Larry Page once described the “perfect search engine” as something that “understands exactly what you mean and gives you back exactly what you want.” We can’t claim that Google delivers on that vision 100 percent today, but we’re always working on new technologies aimed at bringing all of Google closer to that ideal.

    Before you even enter your query in the search box, Google is continuously traversing the web in real time with software programs called crawlers, or “Googlebots”. A crawler visits a page, copies the content and follows the links from that page to the pages linked to it, repeating this process over and over until it has crawled billions of pages on the web.

    Next Google processes these pages and creates an index, much like the index in the back of a book. If you think of the web as a massive book, then Google‘s index is a list of all the words on those pages and where they‘re located, as well as information about the links from those pages, and so on. The index is parceled into manageable sections and stored across a large network of computers around the world.

    When you type a query into the Google search box, your query is sent to Google machines and compared with all the documents stored in our index to identify the most relevant matches. In a split second, our system prepares a list of the most relevant pages and also determines the relevant sections and bits of text, images, videos and more. What you get is a list of search results with relevant information excerpted in “snippets” (short text summary) beneath each result.

    As Larry said long ago, we want to give you back “exactly what you want.”
    Describing the basic crawling, indexing and serving processes of a search engine is just part of the story. The other key ingredients of Google search are:

    Relevance. As Larry said long ago, we want to give you back “exactly what you want.” When Google was founded, one key innovation was PageRank, a technology that determined the “importance” of a webpage by looking at what other pages link to it, as well as other data. Today we use more than 200 signals, including PageRank, to order websites, and we update these algorithms on a weekly basis. For example, we offer personalized search results based on your web history and location.

    And:

    Design and content guidelines

    Make a site with a clear hierarchy and text links. Every page should be reachable from at least one static text link.

    Offer a site map to your users with links that point to the important parts of your site. If the site map has an extremely large number of links, you may want to break the site map into multiple pages.

    Keep the links on a given page to a reasonable number.

    Create a useful, information-rich site, and write pages that clearly and accurately describe your content.

    Think about the words users would type to find your pages, and make sure that your site actually includes those words within it.

    Try to use text instead of images to display important names, content, or links. The Google crawler doesn't recognize text contained in images. If you must use images for textual content, consider using the "ALT" attribute to include a few words of descriptive text.

    Make sure that your <title> elements and ALT attributes are descriptive and accurate.

    Check for broken links and correct HTML.

    If you decide to use dynamic pages (i.e., the URL contains a "?" character), be aware that not every search engine spider crawls dynamic pages as well as static pages. It helps to keep the parameters short and the number of them few.

    Review our image guidelines for best practices on publishing images.

    Technical guidelines

    Use a text browser such as Lynx to examine your site, because most search engine spiders see your site much as Lynx would. If fancy features such as JavaScript, cookies, session IDs, frames, DHTML, or Flash keep you from seeing all of your site in a text browser, then search engine spiders may have trouble crawling your site.

    Allow search bots to crawl your sites without session IDs or arguments that track their path through the site. These techniques are useful for tracking individual user behavior, but the access pattern of bots is entirely different. Using these techniques may result in incomplete indexing of your site, as bots may not be able to eliminate URLs that look different but actually point to the same page.

    Make sure your web server supports the If-Modified-Since HTTP header. This feature allows your web server to tell Google whether your content has changed since we last crawled your site. Supporting this feature saves you bandwidth and overhead.

    Make use of the robots.txt file on your web server. This file tells crawlers which directories can or cannot be crawled. Make sure it's current for your site so that you don't accidentally block the Googlebot crawler. Visit The Web Robots Pages to learn how to instruct robots when they visit your site. You can test your robots.txt file to make sure you're using it correctly with the robots.txt analysis tool available in Google Webmaster Tools.

    Make reasonable efforts to ensure that advertisements do not affect search engine rankings. For example, Google's AdSense ads and DoubleClick links are blocked from being crawled by a robots.txt file.

    If your company buys a content management system, make sure that the system creates pages and links that search engines can crawl.

    Use robots.txt to prevent crawling of search results pages or other auto-generated pages that don't add much value for users coming from search engines.

    Test your site to make sure that it appears correctly in different browsers.

    Monitor your site's performance and optimize load times. Google's goal is to provide users with the most relevant results and a great user experience. Fast sites increase user satisfaction and improve the overall quality of the web (especially for those users with slow Internet connections), and we hope that as webmasters improve their sites, the overall speed of the web will improve.
    Google strongly recommends that all webmasters regularly monitor site performance using Page Speed, YSlow, WebPagetest, or other tools. For more information, tools, and resources, see Let's Make The Web Faster. In addition, the Site Performance tool in Webmaster Tools shows the speed of your website as experienced by users around the world.


    Quality guidelines

    These quality guidelines cover the most common forms of deceptive or manipulative behavior, but Google may respond negatively to other misleading practices not listed here (e.g. tricking users by registering misspellings of well-known websites). It's not safe to assume that just because a specific deceptive technique isn't included on this page, Google approves of it. Webmasters who spend their energies upholding the spirit of the basic principles will provide a much better user experience and subsequently enjoy better ranking than those who spend their time looking for loopholes they can exploit.

    If you believe that another site is abusing Google's quality guidelines, please report that site at https://www.google.com/webmasters/tools/spamreport. Google prefers developing scalable and automated solutions to problems, so we attempt to minimize hand-to-hand spam fighting. The spam reports we receive are used to create scalable algorithms that recognize and block future spam attempts.

    Quality guidelines - basic principles

    Make pages primarily for users, not for search engines. Don't deceive your users or present different content to search engines than you display to users, which is commonly referred to as "cloaking."

    Avoid tricks intended to improve search engine rankings. A good rule of thumb is whether you'd feel comfortable explaining what you've done to a website that competes with you. Another useful test is to ask, "Does this help my users? Would I do this if search engines didn't exist?"

    Don't participate in link schemes designed to increase your site's ranking or PageRank. In particular, avoid links to web spammers or "bad neighborhoods" on the web, as your own ranking may be affected adversely by those links.

    Don't use unauthorized computer programs to submit pages, check rankings, etc. Such programs consume computing resources and violate our Terms of Service. Google does not recommend the use of products such as WebPosition Gold™ that send automatic or programmatic queries to Google.

    Quality guidelines - specific guidelines

    Avoid hidden text or hidden links.

    Don't use cloaking or sneaky redirects.

    Don't send automated queries to Google.

    Don't load pages with irrelevant keywords.

    Don't create multiple pages, subdomains, or domains with substantially duplicate content.

    Don't create pages with malicious behavior, such as phishing or installing viruses, trojans, or other badware.

    Avoid "doorway" pages created just for search engines, or other "cookie cutter" approaches such as affiliate programs with little or no original content.

    If your site participates in an affiliate program, make sure that your site adds value. Provide unique and relevant content that gives users a reason to visit your site first.

    Over 200 ways to determine the rank of a page and/or website... Don't get too hung up on all the details will drive you crazy, just write your articles and see what happens for yourself and then adapt

    Bolded some good points :> Atleast in my opinion.
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  • If importance was measured by visible pagerank, Google could close much of their search operation and just leave a couple of robots to do the maths. From the FAQs

    Q: My site's PageRank has gone up / gone down / not changed in months!
    A: Don't worry. In fact, don't bother thinking about it. We only update the PageRank displayed in Google Toolbar a few times a year; this is our respectful hint for you to worry less about PageRank, which is just one of over 200 signals that can affect how your site is crawled, indexed and ranked. PageRank is an easy metric to focus on, but just because it's easy doesn't mean it's useful for you as a site owner. If you're looking for metrics, we'd encourage you to check outAnalytics, think about conversion rates, ROI (return on investment), relevancy, or other metrics that actually correlate to meaningful gains for your website or business.
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  • Profile picture of the author clever7
    First of all, submit your articles to ezinearticles.com, which is a top article directory. However, don’t waste your time submitting your articles to many article directories. It’s better to submit your articles to websites related to your topic that accept contributions from readers. Your site will get a better ranking, and many visitors.

    Submit them also to the Free traffic system. They distribute each article to various auto-blogs. This tactic is very good for getting backlinks. Your site may also receive a few visitors from this practice.

    Another excellent way to send traffic to your site is by answering questions at Yahoo Answers and Quora. You can post your articles inside a question if they fit with what you are writing about, in order to complement your answer.

    However, have in mind that everything takes time. There is a fierce competition online, in all fields.

    You need volume. Write many articles; and their quality is also very, very important. If your articles are well-written, they will send traffic to your website for years to come.
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  • Profile picture of the author wanna-succeed
    Boy o' boy, have I nejoyed reading this thread.
    Nice to see everyone in class listen to our top notch teacher, Alexa.
    Private lessons available?
    Signature

    No sig, good day m8...

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  • Profile picture of the author Jordan Kovats
    If I can chime in. Kim I know how you feel about being frustrated and tackling a competitive niche for your first foray. I went after an equally competitive niche early on, except I took a link building approach to the extreme, all by hand. Monotonous, tiresome, and time consuming. However, after a few months of day after day...it paid off. Then, I realized content was MORE important than links, so I started producing content months later. Not only did my position rise, but held a page one ranking for almost a year now.

    You, are starting off the right way, by developing the content first. Every piece of content you create, you are actually creating links when you are publishing it off site. For me, I found it flattering when I saw obscure domains in my webmaster tools, from other sites who 'stole' my article, and published it on their sites and left my links.

    Lastly, I noticed you mentioned you were writing 800 word articles. Shorten it down to 500. Then, with just a bit more effort, you are actually getting two articles for just a bit more effort than the one you are producing now. And remember to use your keywords in anchor text over and over. Sure enough, if you are doing what you say, one day, you'll wake up, and see your self starting to rank. Once that happens, you know it will be worth it.
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  • Profile picture of the author Metal Patio
    Hi,

    I enjoy reading this thread as like I'm listening to some experts in article marketing involve in discussion and chat.

    Good thread, good read.
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  • Profile picture of the author kposs
    Hi Kim,

    When you start talking about 'article marketing' around here, you need to be careful because that term refers to two very different strategies.

    The goal of the first type of 'article marketing' is to get direct visitors from the article itself to your site. You write a high quality article about your topic, usually focusing on a long-tail keyword, and you use the ranking power of the article directories (EzineArticles, GoArticles, etc.) to get direct article views and click-throughs.

    The goal of the second type of 'article marketing' is backlinks. Here you use article distribution networks (Unique Article Wizard, Article Ranks, etc.) to distribute as many articles as possible and you get a high quantity of high quality backlinks. The articles themselves will rarely be read, but the backlinks will help your website rankings increase and you get traffic directly from the search engines.

    The payday loan niche is very competitive. But within any niche, there are always opportunities. Keyword research is key. For every keyword you need a good balance of traffic and competition. You might be talking about 3 word, 4 word or longer keyword phrases.

    In determining your chances against the competition, it's easiest to take a holistic approach. Looking at some basic data - the site, the URL, the backlinks to the page, backlinks to the site, maybe age of the site (you can get most of this data with free plug-ins for Firefox) - I look to see if there is any website or article like mine already ranking.

    In other words, if I want to follow strategy #1, then I'm going to look for other articles, web 2.0 sites, etc in the results. If I want to follow strategy #2, then I'm going to look for websites similar to mine in the results - maybe fairly new with no pagerank and relatively few backlinks (as opposed to mega sites with tens of thousands of backlinks).

    thanks,

    Valerie
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