I see now why you have to pay $15+ for quality articles

13 years ago

It all depends.

For "good writing" on sites that I care about - I'm paying $25 per article to have an industry expert write for me. I'm talking about a lawyer writing legal pages. An engineer writing for an engineering site.

For general pages, it's about $15/page

You can get content down to a few $ per page but in my experience it isn't good and I end up wasting a lot of time on rewrites. Yes, $25 per page is a lot, but damn, it's outstanding work and I don't spend an hour on edits and rewrites. What good does it do to save $10 or $15 and spend an extra 30-60 minutes doing it myself?

I can spend that same 30-60 minutes making a lot more than $10 or $15

Hope this helps...

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XtremXpert

13 years ago

Originally Posted by pokerdawg

Yes, $25 per page is a lot, but damn, it's outstanding work and I don't spend an hour on edits and rewrites. What good does it do to save $10 or $15 and spend an extra 30-60 minutes doing it myself?

After writing this article I really see the work you have to put in writing good content so I don't think $25 is a lot for content written by an expert in that niche. Those $25 are a great investment, they will bring much more in return and even more, they will provide value to the reader.

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derrickp

13 years ago

Yep sure a lawyer is going to write a $25 article.

Originally Posted by pokerdawg

It all depends.

For "good writing" on sites that I care about - I'm paying $25 per article to have an industry expert write for me. I'm talking about a lawyer writing legal pages. An engineer writing for an engineering site.

For general pages, it's about $15/page

You can get content down to a few $ per page but in my experience it isn't good and I end up wasting a lot of time on rewrites. Yes, $25 per page is a lot, but damn, it's outstanding work and I don't spend an hour on edits and rewrites. What good does it do to save $10 or $15 and spend an extra 30-60 minutes doing it myself?

I can spend that same 30-60 minutes making a lot more than $10 or $15

Hope this helps...

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johnhoefer

13 years ago

Agreed. I learned the same lesson. Crap in crap out. $5 or less for an article I consider crap in and then when I see the result I realize I got crap out.

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hilhilginger

13 years ago

Originally Posted by johnhoefer

Agreed. I learned the same lesson. Crap in crap out. $5 or less for an article I consider crap in and then when I see the result I realize I got crap out.softnwords

I do agree with this. Crap writers many vanish very soon from IM for google considers no value on poor articles and its exchange.

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GeorgR.

13 years ago

$25 are not a lot, and especially in light of the recent Google changes. Content needs to be longer and better quality. Google is simply getting smarter.

Why someone would put $5 articles on THEIR OWN web site is beyond me. That being said, you CAN find writers who write good articles for $5/pop....but those are extremely, extremely rare.

As so often, you will get back what you pay for.

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XtremXpert

13 years ago

Originally Posted by GeorgR.

$25 are not a lot, and especially in light of the recent Google changes. Content needs to be longer and better quality. Google is simply getting smarter.

I think this change is great for 'the real' internet marketers as well as internet as a whole. It will weed out all the wannabes who just want fast money with automated websites. It will also make the internet a better place, great quality content will benefit everyone.

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garben2011

13 years ago

If your pages actually bring in enough money to justify spending $15 to $25 per article then definitely go for it!

I spend between $5 and $6 per article because at that rate I can get my money back within 10 months. For example, say I build a 100-page content site and spend $600 outsourcing articles. By the 10th month, that site will have averaged about $50 to $60 per month for the past 10 months... which means about 10-months after I created the site and purchased the articles I'll have my investment back and from that point on it is all profit. However, if I spent $10 to $12 per article I am now looking at stretching out that time to profitability up to somewhere within 18 months.

I'm talking about averages here. Some pages may well do $5 per month. Others may do 10 cents per month. So, with that in mind, I expect each page of a content site will bring in 50 to 60 cents per month so I spend accordingly for articles.

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XtremXpert

13 years ago

Originally Posted by garben2011

I spend between $5 and $6 per article because at that rate I can get my money back within 10 months. For example, say I build a 100-page content site and spend $600 outsourcing articles. By the 10th month, that site will have averaged about $50 to $60 per month for the past 10 months... which means about 10-months after I created the site and purchased the articles I'll have my investment back and from that point on it is all profit. However, if I spent $10 to $12 per article I am now looking at stretching out that time to profitability up to somewhere within 18 months.

Wouldn't it be better to spend those $600 on just 30 pages of really great content? I think it will bring much more revenue than 100 pages of content with almost no value for the reader. As others said earlier, search engines are getting smarter every day, so in the long run, quality content wins anyway.

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garben2011

13 years ago

Originally Posted by XtremXpert

Wouldn't it be better to spend those $600 on just 30 pages of really great content? I think it will bring much more revenue than 100 pages of content with almost no value for the reader. As others said earlier, search engines are getting smarter every day, so in the long run, quality content wins anyway.

Well, first just because I got 100 pages of content instead of 30 doesn't mean the 100 pages are any lower quality. For example, I have hired university professors to freelance write on technical topics, English teachers and story writing teachers to write on other topics and so on. All in their part-time because they love the topics and are thrilled to actually be able to make extra money from writing about subjects that mean so much to them.

But anyway, when I started out doing this stuff I spent more money per article. However, I progressively lowered that through time until I was able to recoup my investment within 10 months.

I can't really speak about the getting 30 pieces of really great content because I see very little (if any) difference between the quality of the articles I get for $5 to $6 and the articles I got for $10 to $12. But I guess it just depends on where you are going to get your article writers.

So, for me anyway, as far as would it make more sense for me to spend $600 and have 30 pages of content instead of 100 pages of content? ... the answer is no.

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NicoleBeckett

13 years ago

Originally Posted by XtremXpert

I would never use cheap writers again. It takes some time to write them so I better pay $15+ for an article then spending time, money and energy with cheap writers.

That's something that many marketers don't realize, so kudos to you for figuring it out!

I've never understood why people think they can get *quality* content for a couple of bucks. Do they also expect to walk into a clothing store and get an evening gown or a suit for a few bucks, too? What about a restaurant? Do they think they can get a nice steak dinner for chump change?

Whether you're talking about web content or something else, you have to pay for quality. That's the bottom line. The *real* professionals who are going to take time to research and carefully craft your content simply won't do it for a few dollars. In fact, at that rate, the focus shifts from creating compelling content to cranking orders out so that they can make a profit.

And, when you pay a decent rate, you don't have to spend your valuable time re-working it or trying to make it readable. When you do that, you're wasting your time and your money.

At least you've realized this somewhat early on. It's always been the case - but especially in light of the Panda update - you can't get good results with bad content.

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LiamP

13 years ago

Originally Posted by NicoleBeckett

That's something that many marketers don't realize, so kudos to you for figuring it out!

I've never understood why people think they can get *quality* content for a couple of bucks. Do they also expect to walk into a clothing store and get an evening gown or a suit for a few bucks, too? What about a restaurant? Do they think they can get a nice steak dinner for chump change?

Whether you're talking about web content or something else, you have to pay for quality. That's the bottom line. The *real* professionals who are going to take time to research and carefully craft your content simply won't do it for a few dollars. In fact, at that rate, the focus shifts from creating compelling content to cranking orders out so that they can make a profit.

And, when you pay a decent rate, you don't have to spend your valuable time re-working it or trying to make it readable. When you do that, you're wasting your time and your money.

At least you've realized this somewhat early on. It's always been the case - but especially in light of the Panda update - you can't get good results with bad content.

There are a LOT of things where you can get the exact same quality product for half the price or less. Clothes, medicines, food are three examples where every week I buy fantastic quality goods by not worrying about the label.

And yes it's possible to buy articles at $10 that are the equivalent of $20 article writers. The trick is usually finding the right people whose education and English are superb but don't have a US/UK cost of living to maintain.

And that trick can be costly. You may need to churn through a few $10 writers before striking gold. $20 article writers are more often worth the price, but I've certainly paid for duds at that price too.

I agree that articles for a few bucks or less are almost always essentially worthless except as link building fodder.

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XtremXpert

13 years ago

Originally Posted by garben2011

For the more traditional approach I've used Guru.com and lately even Fiverr.com in my project description I specifically state that I am looking for someone who either directly works in the field or has a strong interest (a hobbyist) in the field that is the subject of the articles. I ask for some examples and some credentials. So, it is pretty easy this way to find qualified people. There are a lot of people looking to make extra money. Teachers particularly often do not make much money but do enjoy writing and they do a lot of writing anyway. So to be able to write about things they enjoy and make extra money from it well that is just a win-win for everyone really.

Another way is I ask friends and family "hey do you know anyone who works in the TOPIC industry?" and if the answer is no then I ask "Well, how about just someone who is really into that subject? Spends a lot of time reading and participating in it as a hobbyist?" This often will turn up a lead. So then I just approach the person (usually through an introduction from the friend or family member) and I simply ask them if they like writing and if so would they like to write articles about the subject and get paid for it. The biggest obstacle this way is most think they aren't really qualified to write articles on the subject and I tell them "trust me you are! there are people online who make a good amount of money writing about all kinds of topics that have nowhere near the experience or passion you have about this topic!" And we just go from there. Generally, I get a sample from them. The hardest is that first one. Once they write one and get paid they are hooked.

I've also networked at the kids school activities. When I go to their games and band concerts and so on I meet many teachers. Through the conversation I just happen to mention that I am looking for a writer on a certain topic.

There are lots of ways to do it really. I think it is more probably just looking at it in a different way.

It's kind of how everyone wants targeted traffic. We all know that is the best kind, right? Well, I just apply the same thing to online work. I want targeted writers.

I used vWorker.com and oDesk.com but didn't found any good writers at $5 per article, all of these have to be edited or rewritten. I read a few reviews about articles from fiverr.com and all said they've got mediocre articles.
Now asking teachers or friends I think is a great method, I thought about asking asking my teacher from high-school(we're good friends

) but never did it. Next time I see her online I'll ask.
Anyway, is harder for me to find writers here as I do not live in an English speaking country, but I'll try.

Originally Posted by MarksWineClub

So, you spend around $13.50 to test someone out? To me, that seems reasonable. Now, if you paid a few hundred dollars I can see a complaint, but isn't this situation exactly why everyone always suggests that you start with small orders when interviewing a writer?

Were you able to see some of their prior work or references before making your order? When outsourcing, I think it's important to have a good process up in place.

I saw a few examples, but of course those were good quality articles, much better than the ones they sent me.
Yeah, I know you should always test them first, but I thought that if they paid to be on Warriors for Hire they must create reasonable content. They also had 2-3 good reviews.
I think there can also be a difference between what everyone of us consider a quality article. I attached an article I received for $4.

Originally Posted by garben2011

I just wish I could get the pages themselves to produce more income. Then I would gladly pay the writers more money. I've studied the conversion stuff a lot and used all I could find but in the end I still don't see anywhere near the results I hear other people say they are getting. Well, some people anyway. Often I see videos where someone will say they built a little 20 page website that brings in $25 per month on auto pilot and then I see people saying they are spending up to $40 per article and I just don't get it really. I'm thinking they must be making like $4 to $5 per month for every article to be willing to spend that kind of money. Heck, I know many people who have blogs and sites with 15 to 20 pages who do not make $5 per month. I guess it just comes down to the niches themselves maybe.

What kind of websites do you have? The small few pages niche websites? Authority ones? Blogs? It really depends what kind of website you have when talking about revenue.

Originally Posted by Jerky

In my old J.O.B. days, I was once a magazine editor, and this entire thread highlights the same debate I'd have with the publisher almost every day. His idea: Buy cheap (or sometimes get free) articles and stories for the magazine, and then let me edit them to read decently. The problem was that these stories were atrocious, it would sometimes take me a full day to re-write (notice I didn't say "edit," this was beyond editing) a 1,000-word story.

It was the same with the articles I received, I used them just a plan o ideas and rewrote them. I attached one of the articles I received so all will see what I'm talking about.

Originally Posted by Boricua

$15 for an article and NOT HAPPY? Plus you then had to market your content on your own or outsource it! Lord have mercy...I do the writings myself, but I'll never do the article submissions on my end ever again!

You just don't have to these days with so many good options

I don't think you really read what I wrote. I didn't paid $15 for an article, I paid $13 for three articles and no, I wasn't happy with them.
The articles were intended as content for a website I'm creating not article directories. For that I use an automation software or pay someone.

Originally Posted by LiamP

There are a LOT of things where you can get the exact same quality product for half the price or less. Clothes, medicines, food are three examples where every week I buy fantastic quality goods by not worrying about the label.

And yes it's possible to buy articles at $10 that are the equivalent of $20 article writers. The trick is usually finding the right people whose education and English are superb but don't have a US/UK cost of living to maintain.

And that trick can be costly. You may need to churn through a few $10 writers before striking gold. $20 article writers are more often worth the price, but I've certainly paid for duds at that price too.

I agree that articles for a few bucks or less are almost always essentially worthless except as link building fodder.

I agree that you CAN find good quality products for half or less the price, but you have to find them through all the other worthless things. And that takes time. And I'm sure at the beginning, before finding your actual sources, you spent money on worthless products. I do not have time (or will) to find quality by trial an error so I better pay more and have the quality from the beginning.

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sober 13 years ago

Once upon a time, back in the early 2000's I indirectly entered the internet marketing scene as an article ghost writer for the person who had the second highest number of articles on ezinearticles. The rate was $10 per article that time. As most of you have noticed, google has dropped ezinearticles from first page for 90% of the keywords with the latest update. As per ezinearticles blog, they are giving their reviewers unlimited time to review articles in their effort to permit only quality articles. I can see better rates for quality writers in the future
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garben2011

13 years ago

Originally Posted by XtremXpert

I used vWorker.com and oDesk.com but didn't found any good writers at $5 per article, all of these have to be edited or rewritten. I read a few reviews about articles from fiverr.com and all said they've got mediocre articles.
Now asking teachers or friends I think is a great method, I thought about asking asking my teacher from high-school(we're good friends

) but never did it. Next time I see her online I'll ask.
Anyway, is harder for me to find writers here as I do not live in an English speaking country, but I'll try.

That is for sure about the bad writers. I just take that as part of the process. Looking for people who have experience and a strong interest in a certain subject helps tremendously in finding good writers. Otherwise, what I have found (even back when I spent $10 to $12 per article) is that yes, I end up with a well-written article but it lacks any depth - any real information. It is more like general information skimming the surface of the topic. Now, such articles have their place for sure. But, I like to get writers who have some real-world experience and a real interest in the subject because they will often share some deeper information that is not so well known.

Going through some generic writers (for lack of a better term - I just mean they don't have any real knowledge of the subject material beyond information they find through research) to find one good writer is just part of the process I think. At least the way I see it. It's like testing advertising sources or anything else. Just need to try out different writers and see which one works for you.

Originally Posted by XtremXpert

What kind of websites do you have? The small few pages niche websites? Authority ones? Blogs? It really depends what kind of website you have when talking about revenue.

I have a mixture of sites. I have a few authority sites, a couple niche blogs (but not really thin blogs), a specific product type of review site, a larger review site that kind of has a somewhat unique angle and reviews a variety of products in different categories. A social network. And a few other smallish (15 to 50 pages of content) niche topic sites. Several Squidoo lenses on various topics (which ironically do pretty good - for example one of the Squidoo lenses actually makes some CB sales, not a lot but about 1 sale per month). I had more authority sites that I put quite a bit of work in and sold. Probably other stuff I can't think of right now off the top of my head. Oh yeah, my local business directory site. But that is just in the beginning stages.

Across all of them, I don't see much difference as far as earnings go. Except the authority site with the most traffic and the Squidoo lens (one of the lowest traffic) generate the most money. There seems to be no rhyme or reason to it really. So, I just try out different monetization methods on each site and see if they make a difference. If the income improves I keep the thing that improved it and axe the rest. Really, I don't know what else to do then that. I figure nothing is really better than a real-world test.

I think a lot of the reason for the low earnings is just the nature of the sites. For example, one of my sites is on UFOs. A topic that if you search on Google you will see all of 2 Ads showing up. It's just not that commercial of a niche as far as tons of advertisers. There are products available and a store that offers an affiliate program. But the people mainly come to the site to focus on the sightings and discussion. I actually am thinking about turning this into a paid membership site. I think that is the best model to use for this one.

But anyway I just wanted to show that I don't build sites based on CPC rates and tons of Google Ads being available and so forth. Sometimes I look at that stuff to a degree but primarily I just build sites on subjects that interest me. I figure if I am going to spend time building websites they should be on subjects I have an interest in and an above normal amount of knowledge on. I imagine if I purposely went after high CPC niches I would do much better with per page revenue generation.

I'm going to test that idea with some Squidoo lenses soonish and see what kind of difference it makes.

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bnwebm

13 years ago

Uh, mate? That charcoal article is crap, grammatically and in terms of SEO.

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garben2011

13 years ago

Originally Posted by bnwebm

Uh, mate? That charcoal article is crap, grammatically and in terms of SEO.

I realize a lot of this IM stuff is totally keyword-driven but I think part of the issue is also in the topic itself... activated charcoal.

When reading this I thought now why would people be searching for that? And I don't think people are really looking to just learn about activated charcoal from the science perspective. Sure some are. But I think they are more likely looking for a bottle of activated charcoal tablets.

Such as this one on Amazon (this is not an affiliate link!):

Amazon.com: Nature's Way Activated Charcoal, 100...

Anyway, I realize the article topic came about mainly because of demand / supply / earnings potential. Just saying... personally I'd find it kind of difficult to get myself interested in writing about such a topic. Now charcoal briquettes would be a different case, for me at least, because I enjoy barbecuing and could position the use of the briquettes inside a little story on barbecuing. =)

And in this case, it might even make sense to write two different articles on this topic. One on the science perspective and one on the health perspective. Near the beginning of each article say are you looking for the (health benefits / scientific view) of activated charcoal and link to the other article.

So, with the topic in mind I'd see the article as usable as research material for the scientific view. My research is basically done and now I can use those notes to write the article. In fact, there are times I get cheap articles just for that reason.

NeedAnArticle.com does a pretty good job for $5.52 per article as long as you give them a good description to work from.

When I submit a project to them I tell them something along these lines:

Opening paragraph talking about who invented activated charcoal and why... and more importantly why someone would want to know about activated charcoal in 2011.

3 bullet points. Each one being some interesting aspect about activated charcoal. Try to be very specific on each of the aspects you found to be the most interesting and, if possible, provide an example for each.

One paragraph sharing a few of the most common everyday uses or products that make use of activated charcoal.

Closing paragraph summarizing what you just shared and letting them know there is more to learn about this topic. Put in your own words.

Is it perfect? Of course not but at least it makes sure that the article will provide some value to a person searching for that topic.

Just my view and you all know I have said it over and over... I am no expert on this stuff. I just try to understand what my visitors really want and give it to them. It could be the bottle of tablets is what they are really looking for so to me it just makes sense to cover that too or at the very least link out to Amazon's product page if you don't want the other article on your site.

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bnwebm

13 years ago

I probably should have worded that differently. I look at quality as a predictor of return visits and thus, more sales. I know the charcoal article is purely written to get the readers' attention and then is vague enough to force them to click through and not linger. I get that. I also think that paying someone $15 for that crappy article is robbery of long term results. Again, it's really at the discretion of the site owner to choose how much to spend. I do think that the keyword density is far too high and could set off flags in that respect too.

When I write for my own sites or for other sites at $25 an article, it's damn good quality, by a professional who is well versed in grammar and SEO. I'm also willing to do a rewrite if necessary to suit my client's needs. I also had recent first hand experience in the value of well written content. One of my sites had lingered on page 2 or 3 of the big G because of ezines and similar article farms. With the changes from G and not a single one on my part, I am now number 1, page 1. I haven't done anything and the only difference between my site and the ranked articles was the quality.

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XtremXpert

13 years ago

Originally Posted by bnwebm

I probably should have worded that differently. I look at quality as a predictor of return visits and thus, more sales. I know the charcoal article is purely written to get the readers' attention and then is vague enough to force them to click through and not linger. I get that. I also think that paying someone $15 for that crappy article is robbery of long term results. Again, it's really at the discretion of the site owner to choose how much to spend. I do think that the keyword density is far too high and could set off flags in that respect too.

I paid $3.75 for that article and it was the second one he wrote.
The first one was about the activated charcoal used in medicine, but I wasn't interested in that (told him that before) so he did a rewrite for another use of activated charcoal and that is what he sent me. I gave him details, ideas and websites where to take the content from. And still, you can see what what I got.
Anyway, I learned what I found on the internet about the subject and wrote a 600 words article only about that use. Now if I write everything I know about activated charcoal there would be 4-5 pages or more.

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garben2011

13 years ago

Originally Posted by XtremXpert

Anyway, I learned what I found on the internet about the subject and wrote a 600 words article only about that use. Now if I write everything I know about activated charcoal there would be 4-5 pages or more.

Now, that is one positive aspect of article writing I do like. It is great if you look at it as a slow way to get paid to learn new things!

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XtremXpert

13 years ago

Originally Posted by garben2011

I realize a lot of this IM stuff is totally keyword-driven but I think part of the issue is also in the topic itself... activated charcoal.

When reading this I thought now why would people be searching for that? And I don't think people are really looking to just learn about activated charcoal from the science perspective. Sure some are. But I think they are more likely looking for a bottle of activated charcoal tablets.

I asked for a keyword density of 2-4%, as much as it should feel normal, but that guy made it 6-7%.

Before finding the niche for that website, I didn't knew about activated charcoal at all, not even the medicinal use. But from the research I made, people are searching for that, and is selling, especially the medicinal tablets. Of course I didn't wanted an article from the science perspective and as I said before, I wrote a great article that will help the reader.

Well written guide there, that is similar to what I have done, but not is so much detail. I gave him the title, keywords, density, guidelines, some ideas and resources where to take the content from. He just had to put everything I gave him in a good article. I think all he has done was to copy-paste some content into a spinner and then send the result to me.
Whatever, we are learning all the time so nothing is lost.

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garben2011 13 years ago

Originally Posted by XtremXpert

Whatever, we are learning all the time so nothing is lost.

Agreed! And all of our learning will ultimately take us... somewhere! ha ha

I like the learning but I must say I would very much like to speed it up. The faster we fail the faster we'll succeed. So, I try to do enough to make at least one mistake every day!
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XtremXpert

13 years ago

Originally Posted by garben2011

NeedAnArticle.com does a pretty good job for $5.52 per article as long as you give them a good description to work from.

I registered on their website bust I see it is a membership website with a monthly fee.
What does that fee cover? Only the access to writers?

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garben2011

13 years ago

Originally Posted by XtremXpert

I registered on their website bust I see it is a membership website with a monthly fee.
What does that fee cover? Only the access to writers?

Yeah, sorry about that I should have mentioned it. If you are only doing one or two articles it will likely not be worth it.

As far as I can tell, although they do seem to have some information there, yeah basically it is just $10 per month to gain access to their writers. But one of the nice things is each article that is written then goes to a QA person who will check it for grammar and spelling and have the writer correct it as needed. I'm not saying the articles will end up perfect but it is a nice extra check. So, I guess the $10 per month helps to cover those costs.

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XtremXpert

13 years ago

Originally Posted by garben2011

As far as I can tell, although they do seem to have some information there, yeah basically it is just $10 per month to gain access to their writers. But one of the nice things is each article that is written then goes to a QA person who will check it for grammar and spelling and have the writer correct it as needed. I'm not saying the articles will end up perfect but it is a nice extra check. So, I guess the $10 per month helps to cover those costs.

I see, that extra check seems worth $10 per month.

After I read how you find writers I posted a message on Facebook and two girls contacted me. I asked both to write an article per my requirements and will see how it works.

btw, I already got a click on the new website so my content started to pay back. I didn't created any backlink and only two pages are indexed.

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garben2011

13 years ago

Originally Posted by XtremXpert

I see, that extra check seems worth $10 per month.

After I read how you find writers I posted a message on Facebook and two girls contacted me. I asked both to write an article per my requirements and will see how it works.

btw, I already got a click on the new website so my content started to pay back. I didn't created any backlink and only two pages are indexed.

That's awesome on both accounts! I hope the girls work out. They should if they are writing on subjects they at least have some interest in!

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TomScarn

13 years ago

Alway be weary of those cheap article writers. They're not making much money with the article so they are more likely to cut corners and produce poor quality. I agree with the above that if you want quality articles then don't be afraid to shell out a pretty penny!

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OnlineMarketingSys

13 years ago

It really all depends on where you find your writers and what you are using the articles for. If it's for your main site, then in most cases the writers your going to find that are going to write you an article for $5-7 are foreigners and there are naturally going to be grammatical errors and sentences that just don't read correctly.

So yes it depends, would you rather purchase 10 articles for $5 and spend the time editing them or spend $15 an article and be able to copy and paste it into your site.

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XtremXpert

13 years ago

Originally Posted by NicoleBeckett

That's something that many marketers don't realize, so kudos to you for figuring it out!

Thanks, I'm glad I didn't placed an order for much more from the beginning as that's what I wanted to do. I see you offer writing services, will check it out later.

Originally Posted by OnlineMarketingSys

So yes it depends, would you rather purchase 10 articles for $5 and spend the time editing them or spend $15 an article and be able to copy and paste it into your site.

I would better pay $15-$25 for quality content that I can just copy paste on my website than editing cr*p articles.

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Natlex

13 years ago

Back when I was paying writters 0.5$ per 100 words I would get medium quality people but now I went to $1-2 per 100 words and I got GREAT english writters from the US/UK off Odesk. I'll never go back to paying less.

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Traffic Eagle

13 years ago

$5 articles can be crap but not always. I have employed students to write articles in the past who provided good content but at a low price - students are usually in need of extra cash and many have excellent writing skills. It's a matter of testing the market and finding writers that suit your needs. The alternative is to buy quality PLR and rewrite it yourself if you have the time.

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MaryDermots

13 years ago

$5 is not so low price, a quality article can be gotten as well.

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XtremXpert

13 years ago

Originally Posted by garben2011

Well, first just because I got 100 pages of content instead of 30 doesn't mean the 100 pages are any lower quality. For example, I have hired university professors to freelance write on technical topics, English teachers and story writing teachers to write on other topics and so on. All in their part-time because they love the topics and are thrilled to actually be able to make extra money from writing about subjects that mean so much to them.
.............
But I guess it just depends on where you are going to get your article writers.

Than that's really great, but how others said, those are really rare and hard to find, even more for new IM'ers. Do you mind sharing where you find your writers?

Originally Posted by Traffic Eagle

$5 articles can be crap but not always. I have employed students to write articles in the past who provided good content but at a low price - students are usually in need of extra cash and many have excellent writing skills. It's a matter of testing the market and finding writers that suit your needs. The alternative is to buy quality PLR and rewrite it yourself if you have the time.

I do agree with you about the student writers. I had a friend who used to write great content for less than $5 per article but I think she is not writing anymore, at least not for that rate. You need some luck to find them.

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garben2011

13 years ago

Originally Posted by XtremXpert

Than that's really great, but how others said, those are really rare and hard to find, even more for new IM'ers. Do you mind sharing where you find your writers?

Sure, no problem. There are many ways to do it and I do not use just one way. I think it is more probably just a mindset. I've not really thought about specifically until now because I just do it.

For the more traditional approach I've used Guru.com and lately even Fiverr.com in my project description I specifically state that I am looking for someone who either directly works in the field or has a strong interest (a hobbyist) in the field that is the subject of the articles. I ask for some examples and some credentials. So, it is pretty easy this way to find qualified people. There are a lot of people looking to make extra money. Teachers particularly often do not make much money but do enjoy writing and they do a lot of writing anyway. So to be able to write about things they enjoy and make extra money from it well that is just a win-win for everyone really.

Another way is I ask friends and family "hey do you know anyone who works in the TOPIC industry?" and if the answer is no then I ask "Well, how about just someone who is really into that subject? Spends a lot of time reading and participating in it as a hobbyist?" This often will turn up a lead. So then I just approach the person (usually through an introduction from the friend or family member) and I simply ask them if they like writing and if so would they like to write articles about the subject and get paid for it. The biggest obstacle this way is most think they aren't really qualified to write articles on the subject and I tell them "trust me you are! there are people online who make a good amount of money writing about all kinds of topics that have nowhere near the experience or passion you have about this topic!" And we just go from there. Generally, I get a sample from them. The hardest is that first one. Once they write one and get paid they are hooked.

I've also networked at the kids school activities. When I go to their games and band concerts and so on I meet many teachers. Through the conversation I just happen to mention that I am looking for a writer on a certain topic.

There are lots of ways to do it really. I think it is more probably just looking at it in a different way.

I also do still test out article writing services you see all around the web. I will most likely test some here at Warrior Forum. The difference between how I do it and most other people may be that I don't tell them what I want and instead I say here is a list of niches which one do you have the most experience in? Which one do you have the most interest in? I let them choose. Sure, it takes longer to cover all of the niches this way but the quality is better and the writer has a much easier time writing about things that truly interest them.

It's kind of how everyone wants targeted traffic. We all know that is the best kind, right? Well, I just apply the same thing to online work. I want targeted writers.

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Tina Golden

13 years ago

Originally Posted by garben2011

The difference between how I do it and most other people may be that I don't tell them what I want and instead I say here is a list of niches which one do you have the most experience in? Which one do you have the most interest in? I let them choose. Sure, it takes longer to cover all of the niches this way but the quality is better and the writer has a much easier time writing about things that truly interest them.

That's exactly what I do! You are the first person that I've seen say they do it that way, too. It makes the results much more engaging and readable.

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garben2011

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Tina Golden

That's exactly what I do! You are the first person that I've seen say they do it that way, too. It makes the results much more engaging and readable.

Agreed. I've always approached it this way. I wouldn't actually have thought to just hire someone to research & write articles on just any topic. I mean I could do that myself as well as most I would think. But to get a writer who is passionate about the topic and has that real world experience and knowledge I think makes a good difference.

I just wish I could get the pages themselves to produce more income. Then I would gladly pay the writers more money. I've studied the conversion stuff a lot and used all I could find but in the end I still don't see anywhere near the results I hear other people say they are getting. Well, some people anyway. Often I see videos where someone will say they built a little 20 page website that brings in $25 per month on auto pilot and then I see people saying they are spending up to $40 per article and I just don't get it really. I'm thinking they must be making like $4 to $5 per month for every article to be willing to spend that kind of money. Heck, I know many people who have blogs and sites with 15 to 20 pages who do not make $5 per month. I guess it just comes down to the niches themselves maybe.

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Tina Golden

13 years ago

It's more how you monetize the content and how well you do at getting targetted traffic. If you have quality content that isn't making you money, you need to either repurpose it to maximize ROI (actually, I try to do that with all of it anyway) or change what you're doing until you are getting the return you should.

Obviously, if you're monetizing with Adsense, much of the time it will take longer to see a positive return. However, if you're monetizing with affiliate products or even your own, you should see a return on that within 30 days if you're getting the targeted traffic.

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garben2011

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Tina Golden

It's more how you monetize the content and how well you do at getting targetted traffic. If you have quality content that isn't making you money, you need to either repurpose it to maximize ROI (actually, I try to do that with all of it anyway) or change what you're doing until you are getting the return you should.

Obviously, if you're monetizing with Adsense, much of the time it will take longer to see a positive return. However, if you're monetizing with affiliate products or even your own, you should see a return on that within 30 days if you're getting the targeted traffic.

I've been thinking about that a lot lately. I think you have hit the nail on the head, so to speak.

With adsense I can get anywhere from 10 cents per page per month to $2.50 per page per month.

Affiliate products right around the same for me. CB stuff never seems to sell. Which I don't really understand. Traffic goes over to the CB sales pages and even to the payment page but then they almost always back out. So, I think most of the people who are going there back up and buy under their own link which makes it pretty worthless as far as making money for anyone except the product owners.

Amazon on the other hand I make a good amount of sales. People actually buy that stuff but the commissions are so low it still doesn't produce much on a per page basis. Like I said, maybe 50 to 60 cents per page per month is what I average from everything. There seems to be no real difference. Some things are easier to sell but the commissions are microscopic. Other things pay great commissions but they rarely ever sell.

Maybe I need to start creating some value-added videos and additional ebooks and make those available only to people who buy CB products through my links and send me their transaction ID. I see a lot of folks doing that kind of thing and I am sure there has to be a reason they do it. Also read that many times. So, it makes sense. The question is by the time I spend time & money getting that content created will it end up reducing the commission value down to about the same amount I am already getting? Ha ha! Just have to test it I guess.

I'll figure it out yet. =)

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MarksWineClub

13 years ago

So, you spend around $13.50 to test someone out? To me, that seems reasonable. Now, if you paid a few hundred dollars I can see a complaint, but isn't this situation exactly why everyone always suggests that you start with small orders when interviewing a writer?

Were you able to see some of their prior work or references before making your order? When outsourcing, I think it's important to have a good process up in place.

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bnwebm

13 years ago

It's about the quality of the article AND the writer's ability to properly use SEO. I write all my own content and am a content writer for several major websites. I've seen what people pay $5 and even $15 for and it's usually substandard. That said, it does help to have a writer who has some form of expertise. I get minimum $25 for a 500-600 SEO article and these same articles i've written for my sites continue to generate a substantial income.

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Jerky

13 years ago

In my old J.O.B. days, I was once a magazine editor, and this entire thread highlights the same debate I'd have with the publisher almost every day. His idea: Buy cheap (or sometimes get free) articles and stories for the magazine, and then let me edit them to read decently. The problem was that these stories were atrocious, it would sometimes take me a full day to re-write (notice I didn't say "edit," this was beyond editing) a 1,000-word story.

I argued that it would make much more financial sense to attract decent writers by offering at least a mediocre writing wage instead of wasting my corporate time on such drivel.

When I finally put together some formal numbers that indicated my rewriting was costing the company at least $100 per story, he sat back, took a long deep breath and... Put me on salary so it wouldn't cost him any more money out of pocket.

Didn't stick with that job much longer...

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Boricua

13 years ago

Originally Posted by XtremXpert

A few days ago I decided to start and stick

with adsense 'till it gets me good results.(and after)

I found a few 1000+(LMS) niches, made keyword research for one of them and bought a .net exact match domain.

As English is not my primary language and I wrote only two articles before, I decided to outsource the writing part. I found someone at Warriors For Hire who asked for $4.5 per 600 words article. I sent the money and all details for 3 articles and waited. Two days later I get the articles and realize it was a bad decision. Not really for the money, but in that time I would have better wrote them myself. I had to spend around an hour to fix two of them and the third was not good at all.

Today it took me two hours to write a 600 words article. I had 4 websites and maybe 15 pages as resource as there is not any good article on the internet about this subject(or I just didn't found it) but the article is great, I would pay more than $15 for a similar one.

I would never use cheap writers again. It takes some time to write them so I better pay $15+ for an article then spending time, money and energy with cheap writers.

What is your experience with content writers?
How much do you pay for a quality article?

$15 for an article and NOT HAPPY? Plus you then had to market your content on your own or outsource it! Lord have mercy...I do the writings myself, but I'll never do the article submissions on my end ever again!

You just don't have to these days with so many good options

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Boricua 13 years ago

What good does it do to save $10 or $15 and spend an extra 30-60 minutes doing it myself?

I can spend that same 30-60 minutes making a lot more than $10 or $15

Just imagine submitting articles to 10-12 networks for your own sites after finishing your sites 500 word articles and each network on average takes you about 10 minutes for just one article.

COSA DE LOCOS!

If you can save a lot of time, just pay up to someone competent that can deliver you the same and save you the energy! So we are definitely on the same boat
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Kevin Williams

13 years ago

Topics like this make me happy. If only everyone would be willing to pay the right prices - there wouldn't be nearly as much crap online.

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Dillinger411

13 years ago

Hire a good content writer from the Philippines full time if you want results. Make sure that they can write five articles per eight hour shift of 500 words or more. Rewrite the article in certain places injecting your own personality and sense of humor. Google's new quality guidelines are in place for a reason, take the time to add value to the internet.

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veenafurtado

13 years ago

Sorry u had a bad experience.
But all writers are not like this.

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va_mom

13 years ago

There are still some good writers out there that charges only $7/400 words - but still great articles. But they are so rare, so if you find somebody like that, hire him/her full time... :-)

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calfred

13 years ago

Heh, quality content is the worst subject to debate about.

It is a never ending discussion because quality content is a super subjective matter.

Person A thinks this is good.

Person A thinks this is better.

Never ends.

But, I will say this.

If you can find someone hardworking and talented for cheap, good for you.
Provided you don't exploit that person by paying way too low from the market standard.

If someone is not performing even when you are paying standard market price, then I won't bother with that person.

Truth to be told, there are plenty writers in the world. I won't worry about finding good writers that are willing to learn from me.

I believe you should always "coach" your writers on the best ways to write good contents. E.g. formatting, headlines, SEO, rewriting and researching skills, etc.

For me, it just takes an extra longer time to find your best writer. You will find him or her, sooner or later (provided you continue the find yourself!). Stick with it.

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XtremXpert 13 years ago

Originally Posted by calfred

Heh, quality content is the worst subject to debate about.

It is a never ending discussion because quality content is a super subjective matter.

SEO is a never ending discussion, IM is a never ending discussion, business is a never ending, so then we should not talk about any of these? From your point of view WF is a pointless forum? I mean, is a never ending discussion anyway.

We are trying to find the best methods, sharing ideas, helping each other. Of course is a never ending discussion, else everyone would be the best at it.
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I see now why you have to pay $15+ for quality articles

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