Guessing Pagerank & Site Value?

by limestone614

Posted: 13 years ago 12 replies

Hi,

I am relatively new, but a fast learner. I was hoping someone more experience could answer, to the best guess, a couple of questions.

The first one is, Assuming Google PageRank is connected to Backlink Quality amongst other things.

What would a currently N/A Site (Not ranked yet - New) achieve with the following known <Do Follow> Backlinks direct from the Page with the Rank, none have thousand of links.

Anchored PR5, Highly Relevant Site
Anchored PR4, Highly Relevant Site
Anchored PR5, Reasonably Relevant
Anchored PR4, Reasonably Relevant
URL Only PR6, Article Site
Real Name PR3, Highly Relevant Site

3000 or so PR0, PR1 & PR N/A (Mostly <No Follow>)

Site is relevant to the Search Terms & Relevant to the Searcher.
(Site is already Ranking for the Keywords)

I'm trying to get my head round the Pagerank Calculation bit, and hence, trying to guess what, if any PageRank Google will give at the next wish through.

The 2nd Question is, assuming it achieved say a PR3 or PR4 what would a site that was reaching Page 1 in the highly Competitve No Win No Fee Claims market be worth, minimum 1000 Exact Hits / Month Keyword(s)? (UK Based)

I know, really tough questions, but only someone with experience would know I think?

Thanks

#google #guess #guessing #pagerank #site

shuvo 13 years ago

I think you will get a more useful information about this issue from wikipedia.Just type "what is page rank" and you will get that wiki resource.
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David Bryant

13 years ago

First, you have to understand that "niche" relevancy doesn't carry any known additional weight for the backlink itself. If you're in a fishing niche, and get a backlink from a basketball site, then that link wouldn't have any more real value in terms of link juice (from PR) than getting a link from a site in the fishing market.

However relevant links ARE better links, because they provide a possible source for targeted traffic in addition to getting a relevant 'vote' for your site.

A real PR5 link is better than a PR4, better than a PR3 and so on.

The anchor text can play different parts in your backlinking campaign. Have an exact anchor text for your keyword is the most powerful, but a diversity of anchor text is what you are looking for, because it helps you to rank for additional keywords, and it looks more natural to the search engines.

A URL only link, can have more impact from the anchor text itself if your domain/url is an exact match, or contains the keyword you are targeting within in it.

Don't waste your time trying to calculate how much PR your site is going to get passed to it. There are many factors that influence this, such as if the backlink has the 'nofollow' attribute, or how many other outbound links are on the page your are getting a backlink from. PR is just a small factor in ranking sites, your time would be better spent building links based on your competition, and for driving traffic to your sites.

'No follow', and 'do follow' are both important to ranking your sites, in terms of looking natural, and getting a 'vote' for your site. The 'do follow' links will pass link juice, and the 'no follow' links will not, that is their only difference. You will still get a vote for having a 'no follow' link, and if that link is relevant, then you'll hopefully get some qualified traffic from it as well. Google still crawls 'no follow' links.

For your second question, there are many factors in determining the value of a site, or the value of a keyword that you may want to target. But, the value of a site isn't in just ranking on the first page, it is where you are ranking on the first page, and how much traffic your are receiving because of your ranking position.

From there, you have to be able to convert that traffic, or what value does your site have? So, you may chose any keywords within that niche, but those keywords need to have commercial intent, or they need to be keywords that attract the kind of visitor that you know that you can convert into sales in some way.

The site having a PR ranking of 3 or 4 isn't what is determining your rank overall, it is your backlinks as a whole, the relevancy of your site to the keyword in question, the quality of your content in general, your on-page optimization, and so forth. With all that said, I suggest that you worry less about PR, and focus more on understanding the bigger picture of site building.

Thanks
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limestone614

13 years ago

Originally Posted by David Bryant

Ok, I think I understand this, hence describing the links above.

However relevant links ARE better links, but only because they provide a possible source for targeted traffic in addition to getting a 'vote' for your site.

A real PR5 link is better than a PR4, better than a PR3 and so on.

I understand this too.

The anchor text can play different parts in your backlinking campaign. Have an exact anchor text for your keyword is the most powerful, but a diversity of anchor text is what you are looking for, because it helps you to rank for additional keywords, and it looks more natural to the search engines.

URL only link, can have more impact from the anchor text itself if your domain/url is an exact match, or contains the keyword you are targeting within in it.

I have the domain name nowinofee.co.uk, targeting no win no fee claims mainly.

Don't waste your time trying to calculate how much PR your site is going to get passed to it. There are many factors that influence this, such as if the backlink has the 'nofollow' attribute, or how many other outbound links are on the page your are getting a backlink from.

I don't think its a waste of time? The links above are do follow, i'm sure i put that, none of the pages has thousands of links on it, the PR6 has about 15, one of the PR5's has perhaps 150. Etc

PR is just a small factor in ranking sites, your time would be better spent building links based on your competition, and for driving traffic to your sites.

I like to cover all the bases, i have time to do both.

'No follow', and 'do follow' are both important to ranking your sites, in terms of looking natural, and getting a 'vote' for your site. The 'do follow' links will pass link juice, and the 'no follow' links will not, that is their only difference. You will still get a vote for having a 'no follow' link, and if that link is relevant, then you'll hopefully get some qualified traffic from it as well. Google still crawls 'no follow' links.

Don't worry, i have an inordinate number of no follow links too.

For your second question, there are many factors in determining the value of a site, or the value of a keyword that you may want to target. But, the value of a site isn't in just ranking on the first page, it is where you are ranking on the first page, and how much traffic your are receiving because of your ranking position.

Agreed, i'm targeting position 1, 1000 exact searches per month.
No win no fee claims.

From there, you have to be able to convert that traffic, or what value does your site have? So, you may chose any keywords within that niche, but those keywords need to have commercial intent, or they need to be keywords that attract the kind of visitor that you know that you can convert into sales in some way.

I would think in the Claims market the purchaser would brand and setup the site to suit them. It has the usual claim now stuff on it now. It could be anyones telephone number, name etc.

The site having a PR ranking of 3 or 4 isn't what is determining your rank overall, it is your backlinks as a whole, the relevancy of your site to the keyword in question, the quality of your content in general, your on-page optimization, and so forth. With all that said, I suggest that you worry less about PR, and focus more on understanding the bigger picture of site building.

Yes, I'm pretty sure I get the SERPS thing, and understand the bigger picture, i'm just trying to understans this little bit a bit better. PR is important in the legal industry I think.

Are you in Politics?
(i've read the wiki page)

Thanks

Thanks
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David Bryant

13 years ago

Originally Posted by limestone614

Ok, I think I understand this, hence describing the links above.

I understand this too.

I have the domain name nowinofee.co.uk, targeting no win no fee claims mainly.

I don't think its a waste of time? The links above are do follow, i'm sure i put that, none of the pages has thousands of links on it, the PR6 has about 15, one of the PR5's has perhaps 150. Etc

I like to cover all the bases, i have time to do both.

Don't worry, i have an inordinate number of no follow links too.

Agreed, i'm targeting position 1, 1000 exact searches per month.
No win no fee claims.

I would think in the Claims market the purchaser would brand and setup the site to suit them. It has the usual claim now stuff on it now. It could be anyones telephone number, name etc.

Yes, I'm pretty sure I get the SERPS thing, and understand the bigger picture, i'm just trying to understans this little bit a bit better. PR is important in the legal industry I think.

Are you in Politics?
(i've read the wiki page)

Thanks

I don't believe that you fully understood what I was trying to explain.

First, you will not be able to calculate the exact PR that Google will pass to your site - therefore, you will be wasting your time trying to calculate it. We understand how PR works, just as we understand how SEO works, but we do not know the exact algorithms of either.

I understood that the first set of high PR links were 'do follow' because you had noted 'no follow' for the 3k links in your thread - before you edited your post.

How well you rank, isn't solely determined by those links. You have several strong competitors ranking, and this keyword has high overall real competition (no win no fee claims). I didn't find your website within the top 100 listings on Google.co.uk.

Though, you should know that if your site currently has a PR rank, then Google knows what it is and is applying it, even if you can't see it before the next update.

I suppose that you are going for branding with your domain. As far as SEO is concerned, nowinofee.co.uk appears to be "no win of ee" or "now in of ee" or something similar. Google reads from left to right, just as you do, and determines the most likely words. It won't use the same letter twice from two different words.

As far as the value of your website, I was trying to explain that 'value' will be determined by the conversion rate, or profit in most cases. If you are capturing leads, and those leads are converting into sales (business), then that is a metric you can use to determine its value.

A webmaster/company (competitor) may offer to buy your site from you based on the natural search traffic, and they will only pay as much as they can expect to covert leads based on that traffic, or less - assuming that you haven't found a way to optimize better than them.

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limestone614 13 years ago

Sorry, I'm sure I understood it fine;
You kindly replied saying I should not bother trying to guess what my Pagerank would potentially be?
But i want to bother? I didn't ask if should bother trying to guess.

I realise I won't be able to calculate it, sorry, hence "Guess" LOL
;-)

Google seems to see it as No Win No Fee just fine?

(Google.co.uk)
For:
No Win No Fee Claims;
It's in position 129 on Google.co.uk
125 on Google.com

For:
No Win No Fee Insurance Claims;
It is in Position 6, 7 or 8 on Google.co.uk - same on Google.com

No Win No Fee
Position 111 on Google.co.uk
Position 129 on Google.com

There are others it hits between 12 and 100.
It is only 10 days old.

It has only found the 2 PR5's so far I think.

Thanks again.
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David Bryant 13 years ago

You're welcome.

Originally Posted by limestone614

Google seems to see it as No Win No Fee just fine?

Google highlights the words in the serps, just as if you did a search for "tion" and Google would highlight those letters in the word 'information'. Though, as a keyword for SEO, it would read as I wrote in my last post. Since all of those words are crammed together in a domain name, Google just highlights letters that form the words based on the search itself in the listings.

For example, I searched those two keywords that I pointed out in Google.co.uk. If you do a search for: no win of ee - you rank on the second page. If you search for: now in of ee - you don't rank. Now you know which keyword Google registers for your domain name only for SEO.
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- limestone614 13 years ago
  
  no win of ee
  
  I have backlinks with that and close to that in it. ;-)
  
  Toffee Ponowinfee
  Or something like that.
  
  Google pretty well ignores the 2nd No anyway from what I see.
  
  No Win Fee, No Win No Fee & No Win O fee produce near identical results..
  
  :-) LOL
  
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InitialEffort 13 years ago

Here are a couple of sites: One is an estimator the other is a fake PR checker.

PageRank Prediction - Real PR

Check Page Rank!
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- paulgl 13 years ago
  
  Relevant links are better for google value. How much more?
  That is debatable. But they are better in google's eyes.
  
  The trick is actually guessing relevancy.
  
  A relevant contextual link on a high PR page is the best.
  
  The relevancy must be content driven, and authoritative.
  
  But since most links you get are irrelevant, you go for the
  low lying fruit. They all have value.
  
  If a site has PR n/a, you should check to see whether it
  is indexed. There is no <do follow> tag, and you cannot force
  google to count anything.
  
  Paul
  
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  If you were disappointed in your results today, lower your standards tomorrow.
  
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  limestone614 13 years ago
  
  OK, here's a BackLink I obtained, found by searching a competitors site.
  
  charonqc.wordpress.com
  
  I used Anchor Text - No Win No Fee Claims and pointed it at my homepage.
  
  It's a PageRank 5 Law Blog, one of the best in the UK.
  There are about 400 outgoing links on the page.
  The <No Follow> Tag is not used.
  
  This is my lowest PR5 back link, it has the most outgoing links.
  
  That is still a Good Link yes?
  
  Thanks
  
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  limestone614 13 years ago
  
  I'm not aiming on picking too much of the "Low Lying Fruit?" from a PR point of view.
  
  I want Ripe, Juicy, Ready to pick Fruit... PR5 or better really. I have plenty of low lying fruit it seems.
  6300 of them according to Webmaster Tools.
  
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  limestone614 13 years ago
  
  Another thing I am confused about, is Google Inlinks.
  
  It shows 0 inlinks in Google, using the Link: command to my site, or on my SEO Toolbar.
  
  Yet Webmaster Tools knows about at least 6000 odd of them? (Shame that only perhaps 50 are Do-Follow) mixture of PR0-7 - Mostly 4's and 5's.
  
  Will it change, and when?
  
  Some of my other new sites, albeit a little older show links and have a PR of 0. (Sadly next to none have PR)
  
  Whilst I know that PR has only a little effect on traffic, it has a reasonable effect on perceived value. All the other competing sites are PR3,PR4 & PR5.
  
  So I'm looking for PR.
  
  What benefit are the blogs where when you post a comment, it puts that comment into the "recent Comments" box, and then shows it on every page.
  
  I commented on a couple of Niche blogs and ended up with 3000 Backlinks from the pages within their site, every post, every tag page etc.
  Mixture of PR's too. from PR N/A to PR4. All <No Follow> :-(
  
  All on Yahoo Links.
  
  Thanks
  
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Guessing Pagerank & Site Value?

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