I want to offer SEO to offline clients but I don't know anything about SEO

Melissa82

12 years ago

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MikeFriedman

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Melissa82

Here is a mini-checklist thread to get you started:

http://www.warriorforum.com/adsense-...calm-down.html

You can go off that checklist, but for the onpage stuff ignore #1-4, 7, 8, 9, and probably 10 too. Number 5 and 6 are ok.

After reading that much, I didn't bother continuing on with reading the rest of the post. I can only imagine the offpage recommendations are just as bad.

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MikeFriedman

12 years ago

And just so everyone doesn't think I am just bashing something here is the checklist and here is why I think most of these are not worth pursuing.

On page SEO checklist:

1. Internal linking. Sidebars and king. Use your sidebar to link to
all you're pages using the correct anchor text.

2. Content. Write lenghty articles (600 words+) for each page/keyword.
Save the spun crap for your backlinks.

3. Keyword in meta title & description twice

4. Keyword in URL

5. Keyword in H1, H2 & H3

6. Keyword in image alt tag

7. Keyword density of 3%

8. Keyword in first sentence

9. Keyword bold, italicized and underlined

10. Contextual outbound link to authority site using keyword

#1 -- Sidebar links to every page? What if I have 20 pages? 30? 50? Sidebar links are also not as powerful. Put your navigation up top.

#2 -- Some artificial number of words to target is just silly. Write what needs to be there. If that is 1000 words, fine. If that is 300 words, that is fine too.

#3 -- This one isn't awful, just overrated and not all that useful. I wouldn't put a keyword in the title twice. Ever. Looks spammy.

#4 -- For an IM'er, this is ok. For a real live business, you are not going to go after a keyword rich domain. That would be okay for a secondary site or a feeder site. For their website, the URL should be their business name. End of story. It is about branding.

#7 -- Never ever have I written an article with some artificial keyword density in mind nor will I ever. Again, the content should just be what needs to be there and not strive towards some artificial numbers.

#8 -- What if I am targeting 20 different keywords? I can't put all 20 in the first sentence. Also, if the keyword belongs there and makes sense, fine. If not, don't put it there just to put it there.

#9 -- I laughed when I saw this one. Doesn't do a damned thing.

#10 -- I kind of understand this one, but at the same time, I don't want anyone leaving my site or the site of one of my client's unless I tell them to. Now if it makes sense because you are quoting an article or something, fine. Go for it. Again, don't do this just for the sake of doing it.

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InTheMaking

12 years ago

Originally Posted by MikeFriedman

And just so everyone doesn't think I am just bashing something here is the checklist and here is why I think most of these are not worth pursuing.

On page SEO checklist:

#1 -- Sidebar links to every page? What if I have 20 pages? 30? 50? Sidebar links are also not as powerful. Put your navigation up top.

#2 -- Some artificial number of words to target is just silly. Write what needs to be there. If that is 1000 words, fine. If that is 300 words, that is fine too.

#3 -- This one isn't awful, just overrated and not all that useful. I wouldn't put a keyword in the title twice. Ever. Looks spammy.

#4 -- For an IM'er, this is ok. For a real live business, you are not going to go after a keyword rich domain. That would be okay for a secondary site or a feeder site. For their website, the URL should be their business name. End of story. It is about branding.

#7 -- Never ever have I written an article with some artificial keyword density in mind nor will I ever. Again, the content should just be what needs to be there and not strive towards some artificial numbers.

#8 -- What if I am targeting 20 different keywords? I can't put all 20 in the first sentence. Also, if the keyword belongs there and makes sense, fine. If not, don't put it there just to put it there.

#9 -- I laughed when I saw this one. Doesn't do a damned thing.

#10 -- I kind of understand this one, but at the same time, I don't want anyone leaving my site or the site of one of my client's unless I tell them to. Now if it makes sense because you are quoting an article or something, fine. Go for it. Again, don't do this just for the sake of doing it.

lol just because you assume his post isn't spot-on doesn't give you the privilege to make fun of him.

I for one include my main keyword that I'm targeting in the first sentence. I also make sure I do link out to authority sites in my niche.

I'm not saying I'm right either, what I'm saying is everyone has their own opinion for what works and what doesn't.

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MikeFriedman

12 years ago

Originally Posted by InTheMaking

lol just because you assume his post isn't spot-on doesn't give you the privilege to make fun of him.

I for one include my main keyword that I'm targeting in the first sentence. I also make sure I do link out to authority sites in my niche.

I'm not saying I'm right either, what I'm saying is everyone has their own opinion for what works and what doesn't.

I didn't make fun of anyone. I just merely pointed out that the list in question is full of a lot of questionable tactics, and in particular for this situation that list sucks. Forget about the fact that there are serious issues, like recommending your keyword twice in a title tag, the OP was asking about offline SEO, not IM'ers version of SEO.

So yes, putting a keyword in the first sentence might be fine for an IM'er, for an offline business if it doesn't belong there, it shouldn't be inserted just for the sake of an SEO crutch.

There is an enormous difference between doing SEO for a real business and for your little MFA sites. Many IM'ers think that because they ranked their MFA site #6 for "removing purple slime from between my second and third toe" that they are ready to take the leap asking real businesses to put their online success or failure into their hands.

So if I get a little defensive about people just leaping blindly into offline SEO, it is simply because I have too often been asked to clean up the mess left behind from other people who thought they knew SEO.

And before everyone continues jumping on my ****, I was not bashing the OP in any way. I think in my first post I gave the OP the best advice in this thread when I told him to seek out someone to do the SEO work, but to teach him what they are doing along the way. Mentoring under someone that actually knows what they are doing is going to teach someone more about SEO than any reports, checklists, guides, or WSO's.

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discustipated 12 years ago

What..What kind of question is this?
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- paulgl 12 years ago
  
  Well, there's basic SEO that's a white-bread list.
  But I can't call that SEO.
  
  The details are a little more. You need to analyze your
  competition and know how to tweak and fine-tune
  a website. Since every website, niche, SERP, audience,
  etc. is different, the white-bread list does not do much.
  In fact, you could actually skip the list of basic "SEO."
  
  Why I even hate this list. One of my pet peeves. Someone
  comes here, asks if they can beat so and so, and the standard
  reply is, "Sure, just do A, B, and C." Aint gonna happen.
  
  Much more to this stuff than can be given in a forum
  reply. Best advice here, was to start with a website,
  and experiment on it. But that takes time.
  
  Yukon, I hear you, but I would take another look at
  the question,
  "I want to offer SEO to offline clients but I don't know anything about SEO."
  
  That's not a great question, now is it? Nobody should even be asking
  about paying clients until they are an expert in SEO with many
  (successful) campaigns under their belts. Every Joe Blow thinks
  they can take that A to C list and take a site to #1.
  
  I mean come on. Anyone can read a list. Anyone can do the
  10 things. Does that means they should now have paying clients?
  
  And if you actually re-read the question,
  
  "...offering SEO to offline clients..." makes little sense.
  
  Paul
  
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  If you were disappointed in your results today, lower your standards tomorrow.
  
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yukon

Banned 12 years ago

Originally Posted by MikeFriedman

You can go off that checklist, but for the onpage stuff ignore #1-4, 7, 8, 9, and probably 10 too. Number 5 and 6 are ok.

After reading that much, I didn't bother continuing on with reading the rest of the post. I can only imagine the offpage recommendations are just as bad.

You didn't miss anything considering #6 for off-page seo was profile links.

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MikeFriedman 12 years ago

Originally Posted by yukon

You didn't miss anything considering #6 for off-page seo was profile links.

LOL. I knew that list was going to be full of great stuff. I'll bet #7 was probably buy a WSO with lots of testimonials then.
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paulgl

12 years ago

Originally Posted by yukon

You didn't miss anything considering #6 for off-page seo was profile links.

No, Mike didn't miss a thing and was a sure a lot more politer
than I would have been to the OP and the people cargoing on.

I can't understand why people want to offer SEO services, then
come to the WF to learn. What other business does that?
None. SEO is a business and should be treated as such. The
crap that gets started, propagated, and done is just bad for
real SEO people all the way around.

I think I'm going to offer my services as a plastic surgeon.
Kindly tell me how I can start. I've butchered my dolls and
I think I'm ready.

Sorry, but stuff like this just makes it seem as if real SEO
is gotten by reading a list. Real SEO is what's NOT on the
list.

Paul

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bl

12 years ago

Originally Posted by paulgl

No, Mike didn't miss a thing and was a sure a lot more politer
than I would have been to the OP and the people cargoing on.

I can't understand why people want to offer SEO services, then
come to the WF to learn. What other business does that?
None. SEO is a business and should be treated as such. The
crap that gets started, propagated, and done is just bad for
real SEO people all the way around.

I think I'm going to offer my services as a plastic surgeon.
Kindly tell me how I can start. I've butchered my dolls and
I think I'm ready.

Sorry, but stuff like this just makes it seem as if real SEO
is gotten by reading a list. Real SEO is what's NOT on the
list.

Paul

First, why would you have any other reason to not be polite. Secondly, I thought the Warrior Forum is also a place to learn things from. I have heard other people say they have learned things here and how it is a great forum to learn. This is why I joined. What is so Wrong about wanting to learn something. I have found a few people to be helpful here so have others. I am a business of 1 so yeah I want to learn from others. I want to ask questions and have someone help point me in the right direction. I am not asking anyone to hold school for me.

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MikeFriedman

12 years ago

You need to learn how to rank your own sites first. If you cannot do that, don't start practicing on a client's site. You can ruin their whole business if you do not know what you are doing.

Start ranking your own sites. That is the best way to learn.

Other option is to outsource the SEO work to someone who will not only do the work but also teach you what they are doing as they do it. Kind of like an apprenticeship I guess.

Also, keep in mind that SEO for offline businesses is a lot different than an IM'ers version of SEO. You shouldn't go spamming blogs and forums with nonsensical crap like a lot of IM'ers do for their sites.

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Vexo

12 years ago

Mind blowing, how can you offer a service if you yourself don't know what you are doing ?This is like saying that you want to build computers for a living but you dont know how they work. SEO , like anything, takes time to learn and perfect. Lots and lots of what is in this forum is just what people read somewhere else and without testing it recommends it.
In fact I think in this industry it is sometimes harder to find the truth as everybody thinks they are the master of SEO after that first WSO they read yet they have done very little to no testing.

If you want to make money and offer your service you are going to have to learn the tricks of the trade and that takes times ( and sometimes even changes when it comes to google)

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bl

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Vexo

Mind blowing, how can you offer a service if you yourself don't know what you are doing ?This is like saying that you want to build computers for a living but you dont know how they work. SEO , like anything, takes time to learn and perfect. Lots and lots of what is in this forum is just what people read somewhere else and without testing it recommends it.
In fact I think in this industry it is sometimes harder to find the truth as everybody thinks they are the master of SEO after that first WSO they read yet they have done very little to no testing.

If you want to make money and offer your service you are going to have to learn the tricks of the trade and that takes times ( and sometimes even changes when it comes to google)

Mind blowing indeed. Learn to comprehend what you're reading. I am not offering SEO to anyone. I said I WANT to not the I AM. How can you offer something you know noting about only a fool would do this. Any client you do this to will end up firing you and giving you a bad rep. I am in intelligent and honest person. I would never offer something I am not capable of doing.

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JSProjects

12 years ago

That's like me saying "I want to teach Art History" and not knowing anything about it.

You've got to learn before you teach. And you've got to practice what you learn.

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bl

12 years ago

Originally Posted by JSProjects

That's like me saying "I want to teach Art History" and not knowing anything about it.

You've got to learn before you teach. And you've got to practice what you learn.

Just because you want to do something and you don't know how and you ask questions about how to do it does not mean you have Sinned because you want to learn.

Where is the Sin please explain it to me. People go to college and job training for things that they want to learn but don't know how to do. What is the big deal here

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Mike Anthony 12 years ago

Originally Posted by bl

Just because you want to do something and you don't know how and you ask questions about how to do it does not mean you have Sinned because you want to learn.

Actually bl I found the Title and the OP refreshingly honest. First thing I thought when I saw the title. No complaints from me. More power to you cause heres the thing - there have been a lot of people who thought the same thing and instead of wanting to learn how to really do SEO they bought some tools and started offering services just running the tools and not knowing what they are doing but claiming to be an expert.

You came straight out and admitted what they never will and with honesty you could be better than them in no time because you are willing to learn and apply yourself to know what you are doing.
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wolfmmiii

12 years ago

I want to offer SEO to clients but I don't know anything about SEO.

That says it all.

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techconnections

12 years ago

Well, a lot of you guys here have good skills at SEO I'm sure, but you clearly don't know anything about dealing with people (aka people skills). The guy is asking where he can learn SEO, and he actually ADMITS that he doesn't know it.

Do a Google search for "seobook" and there will be a lot of information there that will help you.

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yukon

Banned 12 years ago

OP is clearly asking how to learn seo, & then sell seo to clients after they have learned seo.

As long as OP isn't currently selling seo services (I don't see that in their sig) then hats off to them for at least asking & wanting to learn.

I think most folks in this thread have seen so many seo sellers asking basic seo 101 questions, that they might be a little trigger happy from the seo wannabes. It's basically an insult to anyone that knows seo, & makes real seo peoples jobs a pain when they have to fix a botched seo job for a client.

Anyways...

OP, the best advice I have for you is to get proficient at reverse engineering, that's a large part of seo (knowing the SERP competition).

Pick an seo specialty & stick with it until you can do it in your sleep.

Learning seo doesn't happen overnight, especially If your part-time because of an off-line job, or whatever. It takes a lot of time to learn seo. If your serious & want to learn, start tearing apart competition for competitive keywords, checking external backlink sources & on-page source code.

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rooze

12 years ago

It's good. You're good.You don't need to know anything, just have at it.

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bl

12 years ago

Thank you for those who replied to this thread. Many of you need to read a post a couple of times. I said I want to learn. I said I WANT to learn not that I AM offering this to clients.

My Question came in the second paragraph when I asked: "What is the best way for me to learn SEO." I punctuated with a period instead of a question mark and maybe this is how some of you got confused.
Melissa82, MikeFriedman, and Yukon thank you so much for understanding my question. And thank you for your help. Paul thanks for the second post. And the question was clear 3 people got it before the Your doing Wrong posse came aboard.
LOL.. I don't understand why so many took offense for asking a question.