Google is Banning paid Blog networks [Be Afraid]:(:(:(

by todawg_not 214 replies
Hi peep's

Google is starting to crack down on paid blog network services because
technically your paying for links indirectly. This is against Google's TOS.
Argue all you want but the fact remains Google is not happy with blog
networks and they are de indexing them. Which means all those using
paid blog network services (including myself) watch out!!

I wanted to start this thread to pre-warn or alert anyone using paid blog
network services and share there expereinces.

This could have a adverse effect possibly wipping out niche businesses overnight.
This is not designed to spread fear into the IM community as there is
no edivence yet that Google is de indexing blogs linked to banned blog
networks. Just be aware of what's happening out there and avoid it.

If anyone has knows of a blog networks that has been de indexed by Google
please post your comments here to help others.


cheers

Nigel
#search engine optimization #afraid #banning #blog #google #networks #paid
  • Profile picture of the author 1byte
    The sky is falling, the sky is falling! :rolleyes:

    What evidence do you have that Google is banning paid blog networks?
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    • Profile picture of the author todawg_not
      Theres been a bunch of them banned.

      Link Vault was banned in June 2006.
      Link Vault Banned From Google? | Search Engine Journal

      Post if you know more..
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      • Profile picture of the author MikeFriedman
        Originally Posted by todawg_not View Post

        Theres been a bunch of them banned.

        Link Vault was banned in June 2006.
        Link Vault Banned From Google? | Search Engine Journal

        Post if you know more..

        Not arguing one way or the other, but that is pretty bad evidence to back up your argument. First of all, that was 2006. Second of all, Google just deindexed the domain link-vault.com. It has nothing to do with them deindexing an entire link network.
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    • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
      Originally Posted by 1byte View Post

      The sky is falling, the sky is falling! :rolleyes:

      What evidence do you have that Google is banning paid blog networks?
      Seen it with my own eyes. There are several threads about this and one of the users sent me a list of domains privately. I am not going to out them here but yes they were in fact all deindexed. Google is on the war path against rental networks.
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      • Profile picture of the author technog33k
        Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

        Seen it with my own eyes. There are several threads about this and one of the users sent me a list of domains privately. I am not going to out them here but yes they were in fact all deindexed. Google is on the war path against rental networks.
        SEOLinkmonster has been completely wiped out and is still charging the $147 membership fee and continuing to post to their de-indexed blogs. This has been confirmed by several users here including Mike and after contacting SEOlinkmonster on Sunday morning Australian time I have still not heard back from them. I did get a refund though after going straight to Clickbank directly so at least I got my money back..
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        • Profile picture of the author todawg_not
          Originally Posted by technog33k View Post

          SEOLinkmonster has been completely wiped out and is still charging the $147 membership fee and continuing to post to their de-indexed blogs. This has been confirmed by several users here including Mike and after contacting SEOlinkmonster on Sunday morning Australian time I have still not heard back from them. I did get a refund though after going straight to Clickbank directly so at least I got my money back..
          I always stay away from Blog networks built with one specific purpose and that's
          to get a bunch of people in through a launch. SEOlinkmonster (by Brad Callen's
          brother) had every Tom, Dick and Harry jump on the product launch bandwagon
          for it with the promise of high commissions. When ever you get a blog
          network build with this in mind you know it's not going to work for the
          longterm. All launches fizzle off in the end and so has SEOlinkmonster.

          Who believes this hyped up crap anyway only, newbies coming into Internet marketing
          fall into this trap and it's our responsiblity to educate them.

          The more people that join a blog network the less effective it works. Why would
          you join a new blog network on the back of a launch it's destined to fail. Your
          only putting up big red flags for Google.

          A blog network shouldn't have to rely on members adding sites to build
          their network because that's what IMer's are doing. They go out there and buy
          50-100 PR 1-3 sites, slap up wordress and call it a Blog network. Then as the membership
          grows users will add there own sites increasing the total amount of blogs in the
          network. Once it's built they rush off to the next big fad. It's patethic and this type
          of behaiver has to stop.


          SEOlinkmonster is a BUST
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          • Profile picture of the author Michael Nguyen
            Google is definitely banning networks / link brokers. Just recently I was checking my paid links to see if the site was indexed but all 10 links from different site were removed. Google is on a war path and will catch up with you sooner or later.

            I can see the temptation to go after these links as they're cheap and much better (short term) than your standard brand new web2.0 blogger, weebly link. Sooner or later, these link WILL get removed.

            You guys as practicing SEO's need to shift your mindset. Stop targeting damn cheap links from blog networks. Unless you know who's running the network ie
            taking real care of it, making it look like a real legit site, has followers, subscribers, facebook likes etc then you're kinda taking a punt on that link to stay and not get de indexed.

            Instead of paying x amount to belong to a network per month, you're better off paying a large sum for a quality link from a site where Google will say in the even of a manual review "Yeah his site looks real, content is consistent, has followers, yeah we'll keep him in the index".

            One of my client is in the Finance niche and here are two possible sites for me to gain links:

            Links removed

            You'll agree that the second site is legit and you know someone is really taking care of that site. For the 1st site, I can probably buy a blogpost for $10 but for the 2nd site, they gave me a price of $175 per blogpost with a live link only for 1 year.

            When you're link building these days. You get what you pay for most cases, the harder / expensive the link, the better quality it is. One good link from a reputable site will trump 500 average links. More quality than quantity.

            Jeez, SEO is so easy understand why does everyone try and make it sound difficult. Give Google what it wants which is relevant content and gain good votes.

            Stop being cheap as well. I use to cringe at the thought of paying $100+ for a link when I could pay $7 for a blogpost on these blog networks but to deliver good results for my client's I have to spend big.

            Change you're SEO mindset and you'll be reward with improved rankings, that I can promise.

            If you're heavily into link networks then really consider whether you're getting value for money. Money buys speed, what is the point of being cheap and getting there x months down the line when you can do it in half or quarter of the time?. Value your time!
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            • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
              Originally Posted by Michael Nguyen View Post


              1. I would remove links
              2. I would remove links

              You'll agree that the second site is legit and you know someone is really taking care of that site. For the 1st site, I can probably buy a blogpost for $10 but for the 2nd site, they gave me a price of $175 per blogpost with a live link only for 1 year.

              Mike don't know the setup you have but it might be a good idea to remove the URl fo a site that you say sells links
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    • Profile picture of the author 1byte
      Originally Posted by 1byte View Post

      The sky is falling, the sky is falling! :rolleyes:

      What evidence do you have that Google is banning paid blog networks?
      Well, as of today, I stand corrected. I was being sarcastic, but apparently what you said was true. As of today, BMR is officially dead, as posted on the BMR site.

      R.I.P. BMR

      BuildMyRank.com – Link Building Service Featuring High Quality One-Way Backlinks » It’s Been a Great Run!!
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  • Profile picture of the author dp40oz
    Funny cause every major blog network is still working just fine for me.
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  • Profile picture of the author GGpaul
    I've been checking tabs on my sites and for the past three weeks they're moving up steadily. And that's using paid blog networks.
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  • Profile picture of the author todawg_not
    Like I said this post is to get feedback from others about the matter.

    I use a number of paid blog network services too, right now things are good.

    Google is not stupid they know what's going on.. they known for along time.

    Until they decide that posting thousands of spun versions of an article to
    thousands of other web properties not for the readers benefits, but the
    sole purpose of getting high PR contextual backlinks for SEO then they will pull the plug.

    Lets hope this doesn't happen lol
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    • Originally Posted by todawg_not View Post

      Like I said this post is to get feedback from others about the matter.

      I use a number of paid blog network services too, right now things are good.

      Google is not stupid they know what's going on.. they known for along time.

      Until they decide that posting thousands of spun versions of an article to
      thousands of other web properties not for the readers benefits, but the
      sole purpose of getting high PR contextual backlinks for SEO then they will pull the plug.

      Lets hope this doesn't happen lol
      Would it be possible that Google treats blog networks differently based on their posting guidelines? To specify, treating networks that accept duplicate content, spun content, and just irrelevant content vs. networks that accept un-spun, unique content? Just wondering.
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      • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
        Originally Posted by Detroit bankruptcy lawyer View Post

        Would it be possible that Google treats blog networks differently based on their posting guidelines? To specify, treating networks that accept duplicate content, spun content, and just irrelevant content vs. networks that accept un-spun, unique content? Just wondering.
        Actually that matters little. I mean its something but if you have 20 original articles on a page (all short) as I have seen from so many rental networks and they are all on different subjects with all kinds of anchor text in every article its still a dead giveaway. Google does not care about posting guidelines. You are buying the links and Google has no acceptable guidelines for buying links.

        A natural looking site has either a conversational blog style or it has a subject it covers. It might take two seconds to see a site is a paid network with spun content but even without spun content if you see that many subjects all with anchor text links it only takes a few seconds more. BMR is among the better ones but seriously for those of you who have seen a BMR site - you telling me you can't spot whats going on by looking at all those short articles on different subjects with no rhyme or reason?
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        • Profile picture of the author GGpaul
          Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

          Actually that matters little. I mean its something but if you have 20 original articles on a page (all short) as I have seen from so many rental networks and they are all on different subjects with all kinds of anchor text in every article its still a dead giveaway. Google does not care about posting guidelines. You are buying the links and Google has no acceptable guidelines for buying links.

          A natural looking site has either a conversational blog style or it has a subject it covers. It might take two seconds to see a site is a paid network with spun content but even without spun content if you see that many subjects all with anchor text links it only takes a few seconds more. BMR is among the better ones but seriously for those of you who have seen a BMR site - you telling me you can't spot whats going on by looking at all those short articles on different subjects with no rhyme or reason?
          So what's the best approach? Doing everything manual? Posting on article directory, and web 2.0 with your own content on each blog/site?

          Social bookmarking? Leaving manual blog comments? I'm curious.
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  • Profile picture of the author lovboa
    Banned
    I would guess that the people getting caught are the people using poorly spun content.
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    • Profile picture of the author paulgl
      2006 is supposed to signal something happening now?

      Google does not hate paid links. Big myth.

      Made $130 today for paid links. Link brokers,
      link resellers, link networks, that are worth their
      salt, know what they are doing.

      People who think that do not read what google
      actually publishes, or takes it way out of context.

      I would hazard a guess that what happened in 2006
      is extremely irrelevant to what is happening today.

      Paid links makes me more than adsense. But the
      brokers I am friendly with know what they are doing.

      Unfriendly link brokers and those who don't have a clue
      are not dangerous due to paid links, but dangerous because
      they do stupid things as they are clueless.

      Don't get me wrong. Paid links are not for everybody. In
      fact, I'd stay away from any paid linking on fiverr, just as
      an example. But again, not because of paid links. But because
      the people doing paid links on fiverr are knuckleheads. People
      should be known by the company they keep. You deal with
      the knuckleheads on fiverr, well, you're a knucklehead. Say
      that using your best Charles Barkley accent. You deal with
      idiotic link brokers, well, you're an idiot.

      Paul
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    • Profile picture of the author mjazhilton
      Originally Posted by lovboa View Post

      I would guess that the people getting caught are the people using poorly spun content.
      Correct!
      Those who are properly submitting spun contents has nothing to worry about this!
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  • Profile picture of the author HAWTs
    Hi, today, summit on high PR blog network is still working just fine for me.
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  • Profile picture of the author goosefrabah
    It's all part of the game, don't rely on one source of links. Build up a good foundation of links, use a few networks, strengthen your portfolio and keep at it. One blog network goes down, another pops up. It's just the way of the game.
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  • Profile picture of the author Adam James
    Does google really want to get rid of all our niche sites? They need them as long as you provide good quality sites with quality back links not spun rubbish. I always build my links slowly with BMR and some social bookmarking and all my sites are where I want them to be.
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    • Originally Posted by Adam James View Post

      Does google really want to get rid of all our niche sites? They need them as long as you provide good quality sites with quality back links not spun rubbish. I always build my links slowly with BMR and some social bookmarking and all my sites are where I want them to be.
      What would you consider "slow" link building? Thanks!
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  • Profile picture of the author Mack Attack 77
    Nothing is going to happen here. People have been getting scared lately about losing blog networks.

    I agree with goosefrabah....build a diverse set of links to your sites to 'panda' proof it as they say.
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  • Profile picture of the author razorhound
    They have been doing this since ages ago, right?
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    • Profile picture of the author Dellco
      Over the past 2 years alone, it is undeniable that paid blog networks have become the in-thing for SEO. Take BMR for example, their growth over the past year was just.....super duper phenomenal.

      Word gets out really fast among the IM crowd that blog comments/ profile links/ directory links are not as good as paid blog network links.

      After that, you have the mad rush, and as things stand, Google WILL take notice. It is a given that they will start cracking down, and I definitely expect to see more of it over the proceeding months.
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  • Profile picture of the author IM Ash
    If you are using a network that has no moderation and allows spun content then don't come to the forum and cry when your site tanks!

    Quality blog networks will be around for a long time to come but the junk ones are falling like flies!
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  • Profile picture of the author amolwagh
    I am not at all terrified with the banning of blog networks at all but if you really fear this so badly go for - Build My Rank or similar networks. Because they only accept piece of manually written original content for adding backlinks. (Some marketers still tweaks with it), but yet they have blogs with hundreds of original articles.

    Which eventually will be the last network get banned!
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    • Profile picture of the author todawg_not
      Originally Posted by mjazhilton View Post

      Correct!
      Those who are properly submitting spun contents has nothing to worry about this!
      It's not the those people that do the right thing you gotta worry about, it's the people that don't do the right thing that spoils party. When the ship sinks everyone goes down with it.

      Originally Posted by Eleva8 View Post

      Well if people can't see that Google has taken a firm stance against "public" blog networks in 2012 then everyone is blind. Never has there been such mass deindexing of networks in the history of Google. If you are using a network that has no moderation and allows spun content then don't come to the forum and cry when your site tanks!

      People need a little foresight to see what direction Google is going in!
      Halaula Eleva8. I cop some flack posting this thread when Google has been banning blog networks for yrs. Take off your blinkers people. Thank you Eleva8

      Originally Posted by amolwagh View Post

      I am not at all terrified with the banning of blog networks at all but if you really fear this so badly go for - Build My Rank or similar networks. Because they only accept piece of manually written original content for adding backlinks. (Some marketers still tweaks with it), but yet they have blogs with hundreds of original articles.

      Which eventually will be the last network get banned!
      It's only take one person to **** things up then it's back to the IM drawing board

      Nigel
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  • Profile picture of the author Mantasmo
    So theme your networks. I'm building a health network, and each blog has a "topic" (for example "natural remedies"). You can link out to any health site from such a blog, all you have to do is make sure your articles are all focused around natural cures/remedies.

    Don't make the networks public.

    Any other tips?

    edit: and yes, social bookmarking still works. So does manual blog commenting (especially on related niche blogs), guest posting, high quality directories, web 2.0 blogs (more than one article)...
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    • Profile picture of the author GGpaul
      Originally Posted by bnetwork View Post

      So theme your networks. I'm building a health network, and each blog has a "topic" (for example "natural remedies"). You can link out to any health site from such a blog, all you have to do is make sure your articles are all focused around natural cures/remedies.

      Don't make the networks public.

      Any other tips?

      edit: and yes, social bookmarking still works. So does manual blog commenting (especially on related niche blogs), guest posting, high quality directories, web 2.0 blogs (more than one article)...
      When you say "theme your networks." Are you talking about buying domains with PR in it? The ones you can buy from godaddy?
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      • Profile picture of the author Mantasmo
        Originally Posted by GGpaul View Post

        When you say "theme your networks." Are you talking about buying domains with PR in it? The ones you can buy from godaddy?
        Yes.

        use something like registercompass or freshdrop to get domains. For my health blog network I'm buying up domains in the health niche (mostly previous blogs).
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  • Profile picture of the author SamuraiKat
    One thing that many people seem to be overlooking is that many of those that are linking to private blogging networks rely 100% on the network. There in lies the problem. SEO is not doing only one thing. No matter the SEO strategy, if you whole success lies in only one tactic, you are taking a huge chance.
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    • Profile picture of the author MikeFriedman
      Originally Posted by SamuraiKat View Post

      One thing that many people seem to be overlooking is that many of those that are linking to private blogging networks rely 100% on the network. There in lies the problem. SEO is not doing only one thing. No matter the SEO strategy, if you whole success lies in only one tactic, you are taking a huge chance.

      One tactic or several tactics, it actually doesn't matter. If you are part of some garbage network like SEO Link Monster that Google decides to come down on, your site is screwed no matter how many tactics you have been previously using. Don't kid yourself.
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      • Profile picture of the author MaroshIS
        It seems like each year, there is some ''Fad'' in SEO business. So you say private blog networks will be done soon.

        I'm very curious to hear from you SEO experts, what's coming next ? What's the next fad ? What should I pay attention to when I'm serious about SEO ?

        Thanks for any feedback.
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        • Profile picture of the author mosthost
          Originally Posted by MaroshIS View Post

          It seems like each year, there is some ''Fad'' in SEO business. So you say private blog networks will be done soon.

          I'm very curious to hear from you SEO experts, what's coming next ? What's the next fad ? What should I pay attention to when I'm serious about SEO ?

          Thanks for any feedback.
          Social is the new SEO
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        • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
          Originally Posted by MaroshIS View Post

          I'm very curious to hear from you SEO experts, what's coming next ? What's the next fad ? What should I pay attention to when I'm serious about SEO ?

          Thanks for any feedback.

          Theres nothing coming next. Its already been here. Its simple really. ANy network that has low outbound links, good content,fits into the subject of the site (and that does not need to be a niche - I'll explain later) is just fine and dandy. Why? because a google reviewer will come to the site and it will look natural.

          SO truly private networks for a few customer or just for your own sites potentially will see no impact unless they themselves get stupid and start spinning on the networks.

          Now if you are asking about whats new coming for rentals networks - you've seen it - they are going underground but thats not enough. The next step is to realize that as long as you let users submit content to the domains you are still at risk.

          SO the only way forward I see it working (unless Google eases back off) is networks where the network owners themselves writes all the content and structure the sites in a way that makes the sites more natural and sensible. Something SEo companies have been doing for quite awhile. That however will come at higher costs because more work has to be done.
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      • Profile picture of the author dcristo
        Originally Posted by MikeFriedman View Post

        One tactic or several tactics, it actually doesn't matter. If you are part of some garbage network like SEO Link Monster that Google decides to come down on, your site is screwed no matter how many tactics you have been previously using. Don't kid yourself.
        That's not true at all. The more diversified your link profile, the less chance any one tactic could harm your site. By your logic, if google.com started using paid blog networks, it would be at risk of getting penalized, which is obviously a ridiculous thing to say.
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        • Profile picture of the author MikeFriedman
          Originally Posted by dcristo View Post

          That's not true at all. The more diversified your link profile, the less chance any one tactic could harm your site. By your logic, if google.com started using paid blog networks, it would be at risk of getting penalized, which is obviously a ridiculous thing to say.

          You're wrong. The more authority your site has, the less chance of getting hit by a penalty.

          However, if Google decides they are going to penalize anyone with a link from and domain they find in SEO Link Monster or some other blog network, it will not matter if that is your only link tactic or you used three different link tactics. You are still going to get screwed.

          The only thing that may save you is if your site is looked at by Google as an authority.
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          • Profile picture of the author dcristo
            Originally Posted by MikeFriedman View Post

            You're wrong. The more authority your site has, the less chance of getting hit by a penalty.

            However, if Google decides they are going to penalize anyone with a link from and domain they find in SEO Link Monster or some other blog network, it will not matter if that is your only link tactic or you used three different link tactics. You are still going to get screwed.

            The only thing that may save you is if your site is looked at by Google as an authority.
            I guess it's a case of semantics. IMO link diversity = authority and the terms are interchangeable. Although you can fake link diversity to a certain extent, you can't fake link diversity with a natural link profile, and that's what I mean.
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            • Profile picture of the author MikeFriedman
              Originally Posted by dcristo View Post

              I guess it's a case of semantics. IMO link diversity = authority and the terms are interchangeable. Although you can fake link diversity to a certain extent, you can't fake link diversity with a natural link profile, and that's what I mean.
              You can have link diversity without having authority. You can also have authority without having what many people would consider to be link diversity.
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              • Profile picture of the author dcristo
                Originally Posted by MikeFriedman View Post

                You can have link diversity without having authority. You can also have authority without having what many people would consider to be link diversity.
                Well there are exceptions to the rule. Generally speaking though, I disagree with this.

                If you have accomplished link diversity in a natural manner on established/trusted sites, you've gone a long way to creating authority.

                If you've established link diversity through automated processes, that comes back to being unnatural. Of course in this scenario, you've faked it, and you don't have authority.
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                • Profile picture of the author MikeFriedman
                  Originally Posted by dcristo View Post

                  Well there are exceptions to the rule. Generally speaking though, I disagree with this.

                  If you have accomplished link diversity in a natural manner on established/trusted sites, you've gone a long way to creating authority.

                  If you've established link diversity through automated processes, that comes back to being unnatural. Of course in this scenario, you've faked it, and you don't have authority.
                  What do you consider to be link diversity?
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                  • Profile picture of the author dcristo
                    Originally Posted by MikeFriedman View Post

                    What do you consider to be link diversity?
                    I take it to mean two things.

                    1. Links on a diverse number of root domains.

                    2. Different types of links.
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                    • Profile picture of the author MikeFriedman
                      Originally Posted by dcristo View Post

                      I take it to mean two things.

                      1. Links on a diverse number of root domains.

                      2. Different types of links.

                      I will agree with number 1, but not number 2. I really do not think Google cares if you have article links, blog comment links, forum profile links, directory links, blog roll links, guest blogs, and video links. I think they care about good links, period.

                      Even if nearly all those quality links are nothing but guest blogs, I think you are fine. The algorithm doesn't say, "What? No blog comments? Screw this site."
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                      • Profile picture of the author dcristo
                        Originally Posted by MikeFriedman View Post

                        I will agree with number 1, but not number 2. I really do not think Google cares if you have article links, blog comment links, forum profile links, directory links, blog roll links, guest blogs, and video links. I think they care about good links, period.

                        Even if nearly all those quality links are nothing but guest blogs, I think you are fine. The algorithm doesn't say, "What? No blog comments? Screw this site."
                        Number 2 ties in with being natural. It would be completely unnatural to have a backlink profile that only consisted of directory links or reciprocal link page links for example.

                        Anyway, back to what you were saying, if you've achieved link diversity based on how I've defined it, having a few paid blog network links is not going to kill your site, as you've seemed to suggest.
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                        • Profile picture of the author MikeFriedman
                          Originally Posted by dcristo View Post

                          Number 2 ties in with being natural. It would be completely unnatural to have a backlink profile that only consisted of directory links or reciprocal link page links for example.

                          Anyway, back to what you were saying, if you've achieved link diversity based on how I've defined it, having a few paid blog network links is not going to kill your site, as you've seemed to suggest.

                          See in my mind it is not "natural" to have blog comments or half those other link types I mentioned, but oh well.

                          And, again, if Google decides that they are going to blast everyone with a link on a domain in a link network they find, they are not going to care that you have different types of links or not. You are still getting blasted.

                          Just ask everyone who used SEO Link Monster.

                          Diversity will not save you. Authority might.
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  • Profile picture of the author cresad
    Dont you worry there will be many coming everyday with some new tricks , used them till they are there,
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  • Profile picture of the author dame016
    What are examples of paid blog networks that are still operating now?
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  • Profile picture of the author orebian
    Have tried UAW, SEO Link Vine, LinkVana, MyArticleNetwork... the results were good initially but not in the long run. Anyone experience the same thing?
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    • Profile picture of the author John Romaine
      Originally Posted by orebian View Post

      Have tried UAW, SEO Link Vine, LinkVana, MyArticleNetwork... the results were good initially but not in the long run. Anyone experience the same thing?
      Yep.

      Tried linkvana years ago and got hammered. Lost of all my backlinks and many of their blogs got deindexed. They tried desperately to "cover it up" but eventually came clean.

      Looks like similiar things are happening at both High PR Society and BMR

      High PR Society

      Admin

      I dont see what all the surprise is about really. Everyone already knows that these networks are against Google's TOS.

      Its just a matter of time before they get shut down.

      I wont be using them again, its just not worth the drama.
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      • Profile picture of the author Bryan
        Originally Posted by John Romaine View Post

        Yep.

        Tried linkvana years ago and got hammered. Lost of all my backlinks and many of their blogs got deindexed. They tried desperately to "cover it up" but eventually came clean.

        Looks like similiar things are happening at both High PR Society and BMR

        High PR Society
        It's not happening with HPRS as the others. They just closed up shop to because of the news of the other networks deindexing that they had seen a lot of in forums. I saw a case study done by a guy shortly after much of the deindexing went down, and LinxBoss, BMR, and BB were the biggest hit. HPRS along with Linkamotion were the least effected, from what he said, and I haven't seen any complaints about them either.
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        • Profile picture of the author HKSEO Rotzee
          Originally Posted by Bryan View Post

          It's not happening with HPRS as the others. They just closed up shop to because of the news of the other networks deindexing that they had seen a lot of in forums. I saw a case study done by a guy shortly after much of the deindexing went down, and LinxBoss, BMR, and BB were the biggest hit. HPRS along with Linkamotion were the least effected, from what he said, and I haven't seen any complaints about them either.
          Yup, we are still good to go...
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          • Profile picture of the author GGpaul
            Originally Posted by HKSEO Rotzee View Post

            Yup, we are still good to go...
            I remember buying SEO cook book from, where he used all of your services. I'll give it a shot.
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            • Profile picture of the author ezpay4me
              Out of all the blog networks and services I currenly use I only noticed 1 take a hit from Google and thats obviously SEO Link Monster. The reason I say so is because before Google latest panda update on Feb.27 I wrote a post and used SEO Link Monster to rank it at the top of SERPS with a few days. My post stayed there with no problem up until March 1. I was then on page 8!

              So since I always keep track of my link building I went back and loaded up all the backlinks from SEO Link Monster and put them on Scrapebox index checker & what do you know. Just a few weeks earlier I had well over 120+ indexed URLS and now its reduced to absolute 0! Thus i thought it was pretty safe to say that the SEO Link Monster network had been hit and i may be wrong BUT these were my own results and I will make a judgment based on them... you don't have to though
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            • Profile picture of the author HKSEO Rotzee
              Originally Posted by GGpaul View Post

              I remember buying SEO cook book from, where he used all of your services. I'll give it a shot.
              Yup, let me know if you have any questions....and uh, I'll be hitting up long beach on March 29th for a tournament.....Can't WAIT! I love my California trips =D
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              • Profile picture of the author GGpaul
                Originally Posted by HKSEO Rotzee View Post

                Yup, let me know if you have any questions....and uh, I'll be hitting up long beach on March 29th for a tournament.....Can't WAIT! I love my California trips =D
                Really? Damn! I'm going to be in the Philippines. Long Beach is DOPEEE.
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                • Profile picture of the author HKSEO Rotzee
                  Originally Posted by GGpaul View Post

                  Really? Damn! I'm going to be in the Philippines. Long Beach is DOPEEE.
                  Yup, well...actually..the jiu-jitsu tournament is in Long Beach, but my hotel is actually on Hermosa beach. I got an ocean front suite at Beach house on Hermosa.

                  I haven't stayed in this one yet, but its literally steps away from the sand, and I hear these ocean front suites I'm staying in, have amazing views...here is some pictures out of the suite I'm getting.










                  So I'm pretty stoked. Not to mention, one of my best friends coming for the jiu-jitsu tournament as well and he is staying in same hotel, so its gonna be a ****ing blast, can't wait.
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  • Profile picture of the author rjd1265
    The problem is all you..(ya you) idiots who submit 200 post per day to your niche site. Google sees then and reverse engineers where you got the links from and figures that company is just posting crap and getting paid for it.

    If you did it right, slow, steady and mixed in indirect linking to blogs and web 2.0 that point to your money site there never would have been an issue.
    I submit 4 posts a day to ONE blog network (more to various others) and I grow rankings like crazy. My competitor, who by the way emailed me and bitched at my blog title because it was similar to his site, wondered how I beat him with so little backlinks.

    I simply stated I give Google what they want...a simple, easy to follow SEO Friendly site and slow and steady backlinks. I’ll help him out, no skin off my ass since he won’t see results for 4 days and get scared and blast the hell out of his money site again.

    If BMR does go down, who cares? You should have a variety of networks anyway and a new one will pop up tomorrow...simple as that.

    BMR is doing the right thing by closing doors to new customers and building up their network again. Good for them and quit bashing them...all my sites I have with them are not only doing great but increasing each day. I have one site that was at #30 for 2 years and now is at #11 and increasing about 1 spot every 8 days BUT I also do other techniques to help push that along. BMR works and they expect quality in return.

    If you rely on only once source you are screwed! I know people who make $2500 a DAY with Clickbank and they will not use another affiliate network. I ask them what they are going to do if they shut shop. They say it will never happen. Oh Ya, tell MySpace that. Nobody ever thought they would be where they are now. CB can easily be taken down since 98% of their products are just horrible...absolute junk!

    I set up each of my sites so if CB shut down today and BMR was banned, I could wake up tomorrow and continue as normal. All of you should do that too. I want everyone here to succeed, unless you are my direct competition then I hope you crash and burn so please take the proper steps to avoid getting your years of hard work wiped out in one day!

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    • Profile picture of the author GGpaul
      Originally Posted by rjd1265 View Post

      The problem is all you..(ya you) idiots submit 200 post per day to your niche site and Google sees this and reverse engineers where that came from and they find the blog networks.

      If you did it right, slow and steady and mixed in indirect linking to blogs and web 2.0 that point to your money site there would be and never would have been an issue.
      I submit 4 posts a day to ONE blog network and I grow rankings like crazy. My competitor, who by the way emailed me and bitched at my blog title because it was similar to his site, wondered how I beat him with so little backlinks.

      I simply stated I give Google what they want...a simple, easy to follow SEO Friendly site and slow and steady backlinks. I’ll help him out, no skin off my ass since he won’t see results for 4 days and get scared and blast the hell out of his money site again.
      If BMR does go down, who cares? You should have a variety of networks anyway and a new one will pop up tomorrow...simple as that.

      BMR is doing the right thing by closing doors to new customers and building up their network again. Good for them and quit bashing them...all my sites I have with them are not only doing great but increasing each day. I have one site that was at #30 for 2 years and now is at #11 and increasing about 1 spot every 8 days BUT I also do other techniques to help push that along.

      If you rely on only once source you are screwed! I know people who make $2500 a DAY with Clickbank and will not use another affiliate network. I ask them what they are going to do if they shut shop. They say it will never happen. Oh Ya, tell MySpace that. Nobody ever thought they would be where they are now.

      I set up each of my sites so if CB shut down today and BMR was banned, I could wake up tomorrow and continue as normal. All of you should do that too. I want everyone here to succeed, unless you are my direct competition so please take the propper steps to avoid getting your years of hard work whipped out in one day!
      Wow straight to the point. I like you. You remind me of Paulgl .
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      • Profile picture of the author Kay King
        The link the OP listed as "one of those banned" is from 2006 - and brings up a security threat alert with AVG.

        If you get your online news from 6 years ago, you might as well pack it in.
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      • Profile picture of the author rjd1265
        Originally Posted by GGpaul View Post

        Wow straight to the point. I like you. You remind me of Paulgl .
        I'm a no bulls*it kind of guy. Get In, Get Out...I don't care as long as you Get out of my way!
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        • Profile picture of the author GGpaul
          Originally Posted by rjd1265 View Post

          I'm a no bulls*it kind of guy. Get In, Get Out...I don't care as long as you Get out of my way!
          Word. I like that.
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          • Profile picture of the author itsjinx2
            I can agree with the OP - google is catching on to private networks. I've looked up 4 of my biggest competitors with SEOspyglass and all 4 of them are using a different private blog network. When I look at site:domain for all the backlinks, 99% of the backlinking domains are DROPPED from google. When I visit all those domains I can clearly see the blog network. Google is in fact de-indexing networks. I would stay away
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    • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
      Originally Posted by rjd1265 View Post

      The problem is all you..(ya you) idiots who submit 200 post per day to your niche site. Google sees then and reverse engineers where you got the links from and figures that company is just posting crap and getting paid for it.

      If you did it right, slow, steady and mixed in indirect linking to blogs and web 2.0 that point to your money site there never would have been an issue.
      Sounds so reasonable until you really think about it a little and then its obvious its just dead wrong. Network sites are not deindexed because one person goes off and posts 200 in a day. Sites are deindexed when the sites themselves are viewed. So what if you do 4 a day? If the network has 20 other customers being put on the same page thats 80 links all with separate subjects - dead give away the minute you look at it.

      You guys are not understanding that sites are not deindexed based on YOU over doing it. Its based on what the network site looks like in terms of overall content (not just your own) and the links appearing on the page.

      So all this mix it up and do it slow business has absolutely no relevance. If I am your competitor and you outrank me and I find even one or two of your blog network posts I report you to Google because its obvious with all those links on that page even if you didn't post all of them. bye bye links. You could be using ten networks. Google will thank you because they just found ten more networks to go after.

      And so really you can mix it up all you want should your competitor report you Google can see all the blog networks you are using. There is a lot of misunderstanding by those who don't understand how networks are built and used. Google doesn't have it out for one rental network and goes after them they will go after ANY network they get wind of and that might be the one you use next go around.

      Frankly those of you half bragging your sites haven't been hit are just lucky thats all. The moment someone puts a link on a page you are on in a serp where a competitor reports them you are potentially next up for bat.
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      • Profile picture of the author rjd1265
        Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

        Sounds so reasonable until you really think about it a little and then its obvious its just dead wrong. Network sites are not deindexed because one person goes off and posts 200 in a day. Sites are deindexed when the sites themselves are viewed. So what if you do 4 a day? If the network has 20 other customers being put on the same page thats 80 links all with separate subjects - dead give away the minute you look at it.

        You guys are not understanding that sites are not deindexed based on YOU over doing it. Its based on what the network site looks like in terms of overall content (not just your own) and the links appearing on the page.

        So all this mix it up and do it slow business has absolutely no relevance. If I am your competitor and you outrank me and I find even one or two of your blog network posts I report you to Google because its obvious with all those links on that page even if you didn't post all of them. bye bye links. You could be using ten networks. Google will thank you because they just found ten more networks to go after.

        And so really you can mix it up all you want should your competitor report you Google can see all the blog networks you are using. There is a lot of misunderstanding by those who don't understand how networks are built and used. Google doesn't have it out for one rental network and goes after them they will go after ANY network they get wind of and that might be the one you use next go around.

        Frankly those of you half bragging your sites haven't been hit are just lucky thats all. The moment someone puts a link on a page you are on in a serp where a competitor reports them you are potentially next up for bat.
        So what is the solution then??? Post to forums and no follow blogs and article directories like the ancient days. Forums suck for link juice, Google even said the devalued article directories a bit (more to come) and blog postings are the most spammy thing out there. I seen one blog with 12,000 comments on it. You know that is meaningless to Google for link juice.

        I figure if you post to a site like BMR, who only accepts quality post and you PAY for that service that should suffice. People out there are too cheap to pay for such service or the post crap or both. Let the people willing to spend the money and post quality work alone.

        I have a hard time thinking Google gets an email from a nobody with a ****ty site bitching about "my competitor is outranking me..boo hoo" and taking the time to take them down. They make 97% of their earnings off of people like us so they need us just as much as we need them.

        The sites they are taking down, Like you said are the networks that dont care about quality and have 10,000 post to one private blog. If you limit the number of members per blog then you will be fine...which is exactly like BMR is doing.

        Steve Clayton's LinkJuice or whatever it is called lets in 100 members at a time. Once they get more blogs secured they let in a few more and so on....that is 100% the right way of doing it.

        Time for Captain and Root Beer (ya, they are spectacular!)...peace out!
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        • Profile picture of the author John Romaine
          Originally Posted by rjd1265 View Post

          So what is the solution then???
          The solution is to write decent content that people actually want to link to!

          Originally Posted by rjd1265 View Post

          post to a site like BMR, who only accepts quality post.
          Dude, have you ever actually looked at any of their blogs? They're garbage!
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          • Profile picture of the author mjohnson2009
            Could not agree more.

            Their blogs are garbage.

            Originally Posted by John Romaine View Post

            The solution is to write decent content that people actually want to link to!



            Dude, have you ever actually looked at any of their blogs? They're garbage!
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        • Profile picture of the author MikeFriedman
          Originally Posted by rjd1265 View Post

          I have a hard time thinking Google gets an email from a nobody with a ****ty site bitching about "my competitor is outranking me..boo hoo" and taking the time to take them down. They make 97% of their earnings off of people like us so they need us just as much as we need them.

          Google makes its money off of AdWords, not people using blog networks. Unless you are spending money on AdWords, they do not "need" you.
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          • Profile picture of the author mosthost
            Originally Posted by MikeFriedman View Post

            Google makes its money off of AdWords, not people using blog networks. Unless you are spending money on AdWords, they do not "need" you.
            LOL, exactly. Even then, they don't 'love' you our 'want' you
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            • Profile picture of the author cssitkt
              It doesn't take much to see that Google is hitting Private Blog Networks hard. I know of several where a large number of the blogs have been de-indexed.

              For sure more PBN's will be created but Google will just hammer them down in time. PBN's like BMR that advertise openly are just too dangerous in my opinion as are most of the SEO services advertised openly on Warrior.

              The view that varied link sources and a few authority links can protect is totally out of date. Unless the link profile emulates a natural link profile its just not gonna work, not for long anyway.
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              • Profile picture of the author MikeFriedman
                Originally Posted by cssitkt View Post

                For sure more PBN's will be created but Google will just hammer them down in time. PBN's like BMR that advertise openly are just too dangerous in my opinion as are most of the SEO services advertised openly on Warrior.
                If by PBN you mean Public Blog Network, then yes you are correct. If you mean Private Blog Network, BMR is hardly private.

                Private networks will continue to work just fine.
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                • Profile picture of the author cssitkt
                  Agreed - if they really are private and follow good practices they will work as they are indistinguishable from natural blogs.

                  The trouble is all of the PBN's i've looked at are are just terrible. Bad structure, spun content, duplicate themes, mixed niche etc etc - i'm not surprised Google is hitting them hard.
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            • Profile picture of the author twinspectra
              Yes, Google has even banned BMR... which used to be the king of the blog networks....
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              • Profile picture of the author Steve09
                It took a time to go through this tread

                What I could sum up all of this that many people are sh**** into their pants, but I think should not. Why? Some questions came into my mind what obviously nobody knows the answer to like the followings:

                1, Why the big G took so much effort to deal with blog networks even the Matt guy at the G talking about?
                Obviously because it works very well.
                The basic theory of blog networks is far away from being dead. Should be tweaked that is it.

                2, I have seen many mention of "manual review of site"? Hmm...
                I have a question whom mentioned "manual review": Are you a Google employee as manual reviewer? Has anybody seen a statement of such that it exists?
                As far as I know the answer is a BIG NO.

                Think about for a second, thre are at least tens of thousands of search terms with huge financial value. Just for the sake of easy math lets say on the whole Internet word there are 10 000 (but of course there are a lot more).
                For any slightest worthy result one should look into the top 5 ranking pages/domains.

                So 10 000 search terms x 5 ranking pages/domains to be reviewed manually BY A KNOWLEDGABLE PERSON WHO KNOWS SOMETHING ABOUT THE GIVEN TOPIC AND OF COURSE SEO AS WELL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

                You cannot review a website like this in a minute. How many persons should be on the payroll og G to do this????????
                How much time should it take??????????????

                Obviously it does not happen. I can admit that it may happen in extreme cases but only then which are very rare.

                3, Nobody notices the vague context of G's scaremongering automated messages. If they would really know for a fact that something is a wee bit fishy about your links then they would be able to tell you that the problem is your "link A" comming from website "link B". No, they never send you such a thing.

                But they tell you to report! Smart isn't it? Why would you need to report/Would they need ANY report if they are so perfect that they can find it (what is gaming and what is not)?!

                It is just a trick and many people fall for it....

                Personally, I do not give a f* about. I check only the rankings and what works and what does not. Please note that every website is individual beside the fact of a few very basic and general rules.

                Interesting fact. The big G was amongst the most ferociously objective body agains the planned US law which would penalize websites showing/refering to content which violates copyright. It shows they even cannot control totally their own site....

                Good tip if you get such an unnatural linking message:

                Answer: "Dunno pal, but my mom is grooming her new pc and dipping her feet into IM. Even in my TOS there is a mention that unfortunatly we cannot control who links to the site, exactly like you."

                But the best is just to ignore it.

                They of course discovered some gaming tactics and wrote algo to detect, BUT that is far far far away from being perfect.

                The example goes to "manual review" theory and belongs here as well. This and last years updates hit the sites like ezinearticles, ehow and so on as well. They are far away from being a scraped content hosting farm but still got hit hard.
                If there is a manual review, would it take down the ehow? Of course not, this must be algo which just shows how imperfect it is.

                About unnatural linking. Just a couple of days ago I looked into a website's link profile in the top file for a very competative search terms (the top 5 pages changed after the G's "bombing raid" that is why I was curious). One of the website in the ranked in the first page after the bombing raid has links which are mostly spammed links (has to say even for spam is very low value and bad)!!!!!!!!!
                So what are we talking about?!

                The big G tactic is simple as far as the obvious FACTS not the guesses shows.
                Kill the king, rest will shi*t into their pants, make an algo to kill the rest. If you just make it differently then BMR then you probably avoid it.

                What I think is which would still work:
                - Social (please do not EVEN try to mention quality for me about this, look at tweets from average people with so many slangs and grammar mistakes....)
                - diversity of links
                - quality on your own site.

                Just a sidenote on Linkamotion I am a memeber of. I NEVER submitted spinned content just written ones from scratch. Yesterday I found out that they started to delete my articles with links. Wrote to customer service and no answer at all.

                By the way, very interesting that I COULD NOT FOUND ANY of the owners of mentioned services like Brad Callen and others here to share their experiences and tell something about what they are trying to do. No. They took your money and that is it, that is all they wanted, not to give valuable service. Maybe it is too harsh but the core is true. Just by comparing to the opposite a guy here "Abbs" had run some WSO's, then when it turned out that one of his product isn't so good, then he admitted it openly and offered you free services (which costed him a lot of money) jus to patch things up. This guy wants to give you a good service then needs something in return, that is honest like this. I am not affiliate of him or a friend of him, just bought some products of his that's how I know the story. So I think it does matter who sells what service as well when you are about to buy because it will effect your efferts.
                Very interesting.

                All in all, I do not think that is all so gloomy.
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                • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                  Originally Posted by Steve09 View Post

                  2, I have seen many mention of "manual review of site"? Hmm...
                  I have a question whom mentioned "manual review": Are you a Google employee as manual reviewer? Has anybody seen a statement of such that it exists?
                  As far as I know the answer is a BIG NO.
                  Sheesh this is another example of the horrible information that gets peddled on this forum and why some of the more serious people run away from it. Now we have a poster claiming that manual reviewers don't exist.

                  Who exactly do you think looks at sites that are reported for link spam? Another algo? Skynet?

                  No one said manual reviewers look over every site. they look over some as a representation of the whole just as polling takes a sample size and does stats based on that and they look over sites that are reported for link spam.
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                  • Profile picture of the author Steve09
                    "Sheesh this is another example of the horrible information that gets peddled on this forum and why some of the more serious people run away from it."
                    "Now we have a poster claiming that manual reviewers don't exist."
                    Simple, common sense. When there is no proof of you do not take it as proven. Just common sense calculation of existing facts like number of pages on the net and people needed to check does not add up.

                    I am not a hard headed guy, you can convince me and other in a snap by posting here your evidence and proof of manual review. No guess, hard evidence. For this there is only one way, to be inside the G.
                    Just because somebody is using anykind of authority attitude, simple does not make him right nor true what says.
                    Actually, I would be very happy to see hard evidence of manual review as would give a valuable data.
                    Too bad for you, you fell into your trap as now has to come forward with hard evidence and proof

                    "Who exactly do you think looks at sites that are reported for link spam?"
                    You cannot kid yourself that they receive only 5-10 reports a day. If that would work like this than here is the surefire formula to hit no1 position FOR ANY keyword in any niche.

                    1, Spam competitor's websites like mad.
                    2, Report them.

                    Exactly that is why I mentioned that the best thing is to LOOK at the existing scene of ranking and your own site and how the ranking of it responds to specific approaches.
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        • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
          Originally Posted by rjd1265 View Post


          I figure if you post to a site like BMR, who only accepts quality post and you PAY for that service that should suffice. People out there are too cheap to pay for such service or the post crap or both. Let the people willing to spend the money and post quality work alone.
          What in the world are you talking about? people pay SEOlinkmonster $147 a month and I have seen with my own eyes the deindexed sites. They have been hit hard regardless of the money people pay. As others have pointed out BMR is easy to spot as a bought network service. Multiple short articles on completely different subjects all with anchor text with no rhyme or reason to why they are there. THATS WHAT WILL GET SITES DEINDEXED. You insist on thinking that any one poster to these sites has some control at how the entire site gets viewed and then deindexed. Who cares if a blog network only takes ona hundred new members at a time. As long as 50 of them post on different subjects on one page its a dead giveaway.

          The biggest thing wrong with people's understanding of this issue is that they think this is some kind of algo from Google that they can trick or hide. IT IS NOT. Almost all deindexed sites are deindexed due to a manual review when a reviewer looks at the site. There is in fact ZERO reason to believe that any site is deindexed based on an algo. SO it doesn't matter how often you post, how fast you pick up links. How much you diversify. If the page your link is on looks suspect because of all different subjects and links it will get canned once it comes to their attention and that can happen any time there is a report from a competitor on any interlinked page (because Google then tends to do backlink checks to find a whole list of connected sites).

          I have a hard time thinking Google gets an email from a nobody with a ****ty site bitching about "my competitor is outranking me..boo hoo" and taking the time to take them down. They make 97% of their earnings off of people like us so they need us just as much as we need them.
          Here let me introduce you to reality

          https://www.google.com/webmasters/to...ks?pli=1&hl=en

          Google has asked for the reports for years and has acted on them. When the chrome team messed up and ended up running a promotion which included paying for links they even penalized their own team (for a short time which an Imer will not get the luxury of)

          Google Penalizes Chrome Landing Page After Paid Links

          So what you find hard to believe matters for nothing. Its not reality.
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  • Profile picture of the author CBusiness
    sounds about right. I own a network. I think they are just getting rid of smaller bloggers to allow corporations to handle posting quality content
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  • Profile picture of the author roger h
    rjd1265

    refreshing!
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  • Profile picture of the author Mantasmo
    Just build good quality, topic focused networks and use them to rank for keywords that actually bring in $$$.

    ALN lost around 25% of their network recently (overnight). It won't be long now.

    It's fun, so many things are changing in SEO at the moment! While I have and still do experiment with all kinds of link building strategies... it's been my experience that quality wins long term. Every single time.
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  • Profile picture of the author exinco
    below is warning i just received (not full)

    Google AdSense ad serving has been disabled to your site
    Hello,

    During a recent review of your account we found that you are currently
    displaying Google ads in a manner that is not compliant with our program
    policies
    google.com/support/adsense/bin/answer.py?answer=48182&stc=aspe-1pp-en.
    ....
    VIOLATION(S) FOUND:

    It is important for a site displaying AdSense to offer significant value
    to the user by providing unique and relevant content, and not to place ads
    on auto-generated pages or pages with little to no original content.

    Your site should also provide a good user experience through clear
    navigation and organization. Users should be able to easily click through
    your pages and find the information they are seeking.
    ......
    ACTION TAKEN: We have disabled ad serving to your site.

    ACCOUNT STATUS: ACTIVE
    Your AdSense account remains active. However, please note that our team
    reserves the right to disable your account at any time. As such, we
    encourage you to become familiar with our program policies and monitor
    your network accordingly.
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  • Profile picture of the author J0hnnycl1ckz
    I lol at these threads that are all hype / "what I've seen" based arguments without a shred of physical evidence to backup any claims. For all we know "what you've seen" could very well just be a fairytale you've conjured up in your own head. Keep them coming, really, it's quite comical.
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    • Profile picture of the author JayC81
      Originally Posted by J0hnnycl1ckz View Post

      I lol at these threads that are all hype / "what I've seen" based arguments without a shred of physical evidence to backup any claims. For all we know "what you've seen" could very well just be a fairytale you've conjured up in your own head. Keep them coming, really, it's quite comical.
      LOL Well said!
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    • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
      Originally Posted by J0hnnycl1ckz View Post

      I lol at these threads that are all hype / "what I've seen" based arguments without a shred of physical evidence to backup any claims. For all we know "what you've seen" could very well just be a fairytale you've conjured up in your own head. Keep them coming, really, it's quite comical.
      It is in fact comical because you post that not knowing the rules in your own fairy tale world. It is forbidden to out peoples sites on this board so no one can go any further in showing evidence and if you knew even how to check that a site is deindexed you would know there is no guess work about it.
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    • Profile picture of the author IM Ash
      Originally Posted by J0hnnycl1ckz View Post

      I lol at these threads that are all hype / "what I've seen" based arguments without a shred of physical evidence to backup any claims. For all we know "what you've seen" could very well just be a fairytale you've conjured up in your own head. Keep them coming, really, it's quite comical.
      The only thing that is comical are people who walk around with their eyes open but they still can't see.

      Originally Posted by yukon View Post

      Corn?

      Your corn is doing just fine?
      LMFAO
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      • Profile picture of the author todawg_not
        Originally Posted by Eleva8 View Post

        The only thing that is comical is people who walk around with their eyes open but they still cant see.



        LMFAO
        2shay brother

        Looks like I open a can of worms starting this thread but people need to know

        Blog networks have been on Googles radar for years.

        If you don't believe this you need to open your eyes and smell the ***king coffee.

        Look what happen to Adwords PPC

        Look what product launches did to Clickbank until the FTC stepped in

        It's like when something works for IMer's someone comes along and **** it up for everyone. It's called greed.

        In my opinion Blog networks are next because right now they work


        Nigel
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  • Profile picture of the author mrmatt
    So here is a question.

    Seeing all these threads in here recently I decided to do a search on this dreaded letter.

    Little did I know that people have been receiving these letters since last summer.

    Is Google just stepping up their game at this point?

    Reason I ask is that I have been using BMR, High PR Society and a couple of other networks as well. I have been seeing nothing but great results. Sometimes ignorance is bliss I guess. But now that I am seeing more and more of these posts I am starting to get a bit worried as the last thing I want is for my clients wondering why all of a sudden their sites ranking sucks.

    I have started building my own networks thanks to the guidance from Mike Anthony. The down fall to this is that it can be relatively expensive and time consuming buying PR domains so this has been a slow process for me.
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    • Profile picture of the author HKSEO Rotzee
      Originally Posted by mrmatt View Post


      I have started building my own networks thanks to the guidance from Mike Anthony. The down fall to this is that it can be relatively expensive and time consuming buying PR domains so this has been a slow process for me.
      ^ Not to mention the constant Flux of PR when dealing with a lot of sites, or paying for a high PR domain and then watching it drop...if your not REALLY making your ROI, it could really smack your pocket.

      As annoying as Mike Anthony can be, he is an intelligent guy and seems pretty good with SEO...if your going to build your own network, I suggest you listen to what he has to say, see if its feasible for you and your situation and then stick to what he says exactly.
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      • Profile picture of the author mrmatt
        Originally Posted by HKSEO Rotzee View Post

        As annoying as Mike Anthony can be, he is an intelligent guy and seems pretty good with SEO...if your going to build your own network, I suggest you listen to what he has to say, see if its feasible for you and your situation and then stick to what he says exactly.
        The course really is good. I would have saved myself several hundred dollars had I bought the course before attempting to do this on my own.

        Out of all the blog networks I have used yours is one of my favorites.
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        • Profile picture of the author HKSEO Rotzee
          Originally Posted by mrmatt View Post

          The course really is good. I would have saved myself several hundred dollars had I bought the course before attempting to do this on my own.

          Out of all the blog networks I have used yours is one of my favorites.
          Thanks! And yeah, he annoys me on a personal note for a few things...but I won't let that stop me from saying hes an intelligent guy and I bet he put together a good course. Good luck with it brother!
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      • Profile picture of the author Fernando Veloso
        Originally Posted by HKSEO Rotzee View Post

        As annoying as Mike Anthony can be
        Mike? annoying...? Nah!!! :p

        Edit: This discussion is going nuts. Why don't you people listen to good advices? Like, a couple years ago we discussed this issue for so long and we finally reached one conclusion: private networks is the way to go. And now here we are in 2012 - still discussing it.

        eheh
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        • Profile picture of the author HKSEO Rotzee
          Originally Posted by Fernando Veloso View Post

          Mike? annoying...? Nah!!! :p
          LMAO

          Edit: This discussion is going nuts. Why don't you people listen to good advices? Like, a couple years ago we discussed this issue for so long and we finally reached one conclusion: private networks is the way to go. And now here we are in 2012 - still discussing it.

          eheh
          I know we aren't aren't changing gears yet, infact...rumor is, we are probably opening a second network pretty soon....but thats just a rumor shhhhhh =D
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          • Profile picture of the author GGpaul
            Originally Posted by HKSEO Rotzee View Post

            LMAO



            I know we aren't aren't changing gears yet, infact...rumor is, we are probably opening a second network pretty soon....but thats just a rumor shhhhhh =D
            I got $400 to spend. I'm really debating about spending it on highpr. I'm a member but haven't put money in yet. Unless you took free members out of hte picture as well.
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            • Profile picture of the author HKSEO Rotzee
              Originally Posted by GGpaul View Post

              I got $400 to spend. I'm really debating about spending it on highpr. I'm a member but haven't put money in yet. Unless you took free members out of hte picture as well.
              We are working like charm for now, test it out if you want.
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      • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
        Originally Posted by HKSEO Rotzee View Post

        As annoying as Mike Anthony can be, he is an intelligent guy and seems pretty good with SEO...if your going to build your own network, I suggest you listen to what he has to say, see if its feasible for you and your situation and then stick to what he says exactly.
        Me? Annoying? I am one of the most mild mannered posters on this forum. never get into it with ANYONE, write very short posts all the time, never get upset over stuff like the cost of SenukeX for newbies, cry when someone mentions xrumer link spam, dab my eyes but keep it to myself and never say a word.

        and when you post threads that are case studies JUST on your own network when have I ever objected? Us soft mild mannered people always get blamed for things. Never fails.

        Originally Posted by Fernando Veloso View Post

        Mike? annoying...? Nah!!! :p
        Careful there Fernando . I know some of your sites and I can make a really good unnatural link pattern that Google will love. LOL.
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        • Profile picture of the author HKSEO Rotzee
          Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

          Me? Annoying? I am one of the most mild mannered posters on this forum. never get into it with ANYONE, write very short posts all the time, never get upset over stuff like the cost of SenukeX for newbies, cry when someone mentions xrumer link spam, dab my eyes but keep it to myself and never say a word.

          and when you post threads that are case studies JUST on your own network when have I ever objected? Us soft mild mannered people always get blamed for things. Never fails.

          hmmm mmmm
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        • Profile picture of the author GrowMap
          Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

          Me? Annoying?
          Being correct does seem to annoy many people. I find it amusing how many people are annoyed by intelligence.
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          • Profile picture of the author CyberAlien
            Originally Posted by GrowMap View Post

            Being correct does seem to annoy many people. I find it amusing how many people are annoyed by intelligence.
            That's only because so few people are intelligent
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          • Profile picture of the author HKSEO Rotzee
            Originally Posted by GrowMap View Post

            Being correct does seem to annoy many people. I find it amusing how many people are annoyed by intelligence.
            Being intelligent is not annoying, I've said on many occasions that he is intelligent. Its his hypocrisy and single minded "know it all", condescending attitude that his strategy is the only way in a game with multiple strategies.

            Its like listening to some Football Fan tell you that coaches are retarded for having a running back, all you need is a quarterback and receiver to score touch downs.

            Is he right? Yes, passes score touchdowns...but that doesn't mean BECAUSE that works, that running the ball doesn't work as well. And that's the attitude he has that annoys me.
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            • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
              Originally Posted by HKSEO Rotzee View Post

              Being intelligent is not annoying, I've said on many occasions that he is intelligent. Its his hypocrisy and single minded "know it all", condescending attitude that his strategy is the only way in a game with multiple strategies.
              .

              I don't think my strategies are the only strategies that work. Does that mean that every strategy that you say works actually does? I said that networks that were renting out to everyone and using spun content were an obvious mark for Google. You closed down using your strategy. Doesn't make me a genius it just doesn't make you an expert on Networks thats all. Case closed.
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              • Profile picture of the author HKSEO Rotzee
                Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

                I don't think my strategies are the only strategies that work. Does that mean that every strategy that you say works actually does? I said that networks that were renting out to everyone and using spun content were an obvious mark for Google. You closed down using your strategy. Doesn't make me a genius it just doesn't make you an expert on Networks thats all. Case closed.
                I wasn't even talking about networks specifically, that being said...ours was the LAST one to get touched...lasted longer than your precious BMR. Creating a private network for individual use and creating a system to RENT private networks is two different animals. We made a network that functioned extremely well, was extremely effective was profitable for us and affordable for the customer...on top of that...it lasted longer than most and still didn't kill us completely. We are already almost completely repaired and have new ideas to implement.

                We've said since the beginning that ours, nor any other targeted standard private network would survive an manual review. You using that as evidence of our network competence is moot. Everyone targeted got hit, it had nothing to do with ability to create networks nor the understanding of how to create one.
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                • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                  Originally Posted by HKSEO Rotzee View Post

                  I wasn't even talking about networks specifically, that being said...ours was the LAST one to get touched...lasted longer than your precious BMR.
                  Priority. BMR was far more popular than high PR society so the fact that you lasted what? two weeks longer than them doesn't say much. Furthermore BMR lasted far longer than you did. They were well known and in operation for far longer.

                  On the bright side its good that you no longer are running around in the BMR thread claiming that deindexing does not happen at all in well run rental networks :rolleyes:

                  it lasted longer than most and still didn't kill us completely. We are already almost completely repaired and have new ideas to implement.
                  Hmmm lets see if you have learned anything

                  We've said since the beginning that ours, nor any other targeted standard private network would survive an manual review. You using that as evidence of our network competence is moot. Everyone targeted got hit, it had nothing to do with ability to create networks nor the understanding of how to create one.
                  Nope. you haven't learned much.

                  If no network can withstand manual review like you say then say goodbye to whatever else you try. You are not thinking things through. The whole purpose of using a network is to rank. IF your customers rank when they use you that means they will take over a spot at the top of Google in some niche where someone is making money. Competitors WILL check your backlinks and if they are so obvious as to not be able to withstand a manual review the competitors will know it too and make the link spam report.

                  Its now apparent that Google has people assigned to this kind of activity. You are living in a dream world if you think Networks cannot be created that can withstand manual reviews. Better to get out of the game because you will spend good money after bad trying to revive that cash machine and worse you will just end up getting more unknowing clients in hot water.
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  • Profile picture of the author HKSEO Rotzee
    A guy did a case study here on the % of High PR networks that got de-indexed.

    Are Private PR Networks Dead?
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  • Profile picture of the author Mike Grant
    My **** is doing just fine.
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    • Profile picture of the author mosthost
      Originally Posted by Mike Grant View Post

      My **** is doing just fine.
      I can't help wondering what he said
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      • Profile picture of the author HKSEO Rotzee
        Originally Posted by mosthost View Post

        I can't help wondering what he said
        Well whats great is it doesn't matter, insert anything and its still funny lol
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    • Profile picture of the author yukon
      Originally Posted by Mike Grant View Post

      My **** is doing just fine.
      Corn?

      Your corn is doing just fine?
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    • Profile picture of the author Zen Warrior
      Originally Posted by Mike Grant View Post

      My **** is doing just fine.
      What the hell does that mean?

      That someone should call you to do their SEO I suppose.

      Explain yourself if want to have any cred, son.
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      • Profile picture of the author Mike Grant
        Originally Posted by Zen Warrior View Post

        What the hell does that mean?

        That someone should call you to do their SEO I suppose.

        Explain yourself if want to have any cred, son.
        Lmao @ me not having any "cred", son. Besides, this is WaFo. Why would I need cred here?
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        • Profile picture of the author Zen Warrior
          Originally Posted by Mike Grant View Post

          Lmao @ me not having any "cred", son. Besides, this is WaFo. Why would I need cred here?
          I was joking around a little bit so I am glad I made you laugh ..and I am no doubt about twice your age, so I can call you "son" if I want--I've earned it.

          I never use "cred" though i have heard it somewhere....


          WF, or life, it's better not to take yourself, or anything, too seriously...we are all just actors on this stage.....or the Creator's hobby, as I like to think of it...

          So, lighten up....son ........cuz ain't no-one gettn' out alive.

          ~Mike

          ps I like your name...........son.
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  • Profile picture of the author GGpaul
    So what's the best approach? Manual backlinks? blog comments + article directories link wheel? Social bookmarking?
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  • Profile picture of the author dcristo
    I think he's basically saying he's weiner is still functioning thanks to paid blog networks.
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    • Profile picture of the author Zen Warrior
      Originally Posted by dcristo View Post

      I think he's basically saying he's weiner is still functioning thanks to paid blog networks.
      Ha..I like that answer. ha ha
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      • Profile picture of the author Zen Warrior
        A question, since private networks are the rage...I ,in fact, am taking a great course right now about that very thing.

        Question: so, to build your private network, how do you build links to the tier 2 & 3 sites then?, since all link building methods, besides using natural links from related sites, seem to be not so good according to what I have read on this thread.

        Anyone?......Mike Anthony perhaps?

        thanks,
        '
        Mike
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        • Profile picture of the author cssitkt
          Most Private Blog Networks main intention is not to help you rank but to make money. SEO link monster is prime example of this - glossy launch of a terrible product made to look great.

          The sad thing is that thousands of people sign up to these blog networks which at best will help you rank for a short time and at worst will tank your site. Just look at how many people's sites have been nuked just by using SEO Link Monster - it's frightening.

          ALN recently admitted that it's normal for 5-10% of their blogs to be de-indexed each month. BMR have also admitted that it's normal for their blogs to be de-indexed regularly. A 5-10% de-index rate means you will always be buying more links to replace the deindexed ones which is probably viewed as not a bad thing if you own the Blog Network. I've said it before and i'll say it again - you don't want a link to your site on any de-indexed page.

          Most of the SEO services you see advertised on Warrior are utter rubbish and are putting sites in real danger.
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        • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
          Originally Posted by Zen Warrior View Post

          A question, since private networks are the rage...I ,in fact, am taking a great course right now about that very thing.

          Question: so, to build your private network, how do you build links to the tier 2 & 3 sites then?, since all link building methods, besides using natural links from related sites, seem to be not so good according to what I have read on this thread.
          Not sure I understand the question in light of the fact that you say you are taking a course on building networks. IF it doesn't cover that then what does it cover?
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          • Profile picture of the author Zen Warrior
            Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

            Not sure I understand the question in light of the fact that you say you are taking a course on building networks. IF it doesn't cover that then what does it cover?
            Oh, we cover that, of course. But I am planning on asking this same question just the same, as BMR, Linkvana have been mentioned as some of the methods to use in backlinking your lower level sites.

            If these are "dangerous" to use, as you and others are saying, then what do you recommend then?

            I am have a bunch of domains, etc, but am just starting on building a few sites up...it is out of my budget to buy High PR links on related sites, so what is the alternative?

            Are Web2.0 and Social bookmarking good ways to get some juice to these lower level sites, better than using BMR IYO?

            Thanks,

            Mike
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            • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
              Originally Posted by Zen Warrior View Post

              Oh, we cover that, of course. But I am planning on asking this same question just the same, as BMR, Linkvana have been mentioned as some of the methods to use in backlinking your lower level sites.

              If these are "dangerous" to use, as you and others are saying, then what do you recommend then?
              I don't agree with the premise of your class to begin with . In my class I don't and never have told people to build juice to their networks from public rental networks at all. One of the biggest benefits of building your own network is the privacy and exclusivity of it and connecting it to a public rental network exposes your entire exclusive network to theirs and subjects it to deindexing - especially in this climate.

              Are Web2.0 and Social bookmarking good ways to get some juice to these lower level sites, better than using BMR IYO?
              Could you PM me the name of this course? Its stunning that thats the only thing they cover to get PR to your site. For obvious reasons I can't get into those kinds of details on teaching you how to build a network here but no none of those are good at doing that. One bone I can throw out is that you would be better with blog comments with low OBL pages but those can be lost at a very high rate either by being removed or diluted by spammers.
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              • Profile picture of the author Zen Warrior
                Sure, you are not going to give away your course for free, I understand.

                SEO is a game, I understand that also.

                So (for anyone that would like to contribute) are in-content links from sites with content that is relevant to your site content the only way to rank your site safely then?

                Ha, and if those sites have links from rental networks....is G going to de-index everyone?

                Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

                I don't agree with the premise of your class to begin with . In my class I don't and never have told people to build juice to their networks from public rental networks at all. One of the biggest benefits of building your own network is the privacy and exclusivity of it and connecting it to a public rental network exposes your entire exclusive network to theirs and subjects it to deindexing - especially in this climate.



                Could you PM me the name of this course? Its stunning that thats the only thing they cover to get PR to your site. For obvious reasons I can't get into those kinds of details on teaching you how to build a network here but no none of those are good at doing that. One bone I can throw out is that you would be better with blog comments with low OBL pages but those can be lost at a very high rate either by being removed or diluted by spammers.

                And, to run with this a bit...so, we as SEOs--is the future of promoting turning into a political method, as in run down the opponent--instead of promoting our own sites, do we now just send a bunch of links from SEO LInk Monster, for instance, to our competitors sites?

                I would not do that as I believe in the justice of the Universe, what goes around surely will come back around...but what do you people think?

                How about using .edu links and press releases, maybe that will be my focus instead of BMR, etc.

                How about just syndicating articles?

                ...is AMR ( I know, not high quality inks there) safe to use,. or can your sites be de-indexed from using that too?

                thanks in advance for any opinions offered.
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                • Profile picture of the author Zen Warrior
                  OK, got a little carried away in my above post

                  I am thinking that maybe the $59 monthly for BMR isn't a good investment after all.....

                  I am looking for long term...so laying a foundation using basic, solid methods will be best....what that would be, still working on it...

                  Writing articles, videos, etc..to start
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                • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                  Originally Posted by Zen Warrior View Post

                  do we now just send a bunch of links from SEO LInk Monster, for instance, to our competitors sites?
                  Once a service has had sites deindexed it doesn't matter what you put on them - they will not count for anything. Google will not crawl them or pick up any new links form them so if you got links from such sites already deindexed they would have no effect. They are in siberia and google cares nothing about whats on them to even tank your competitor.
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                  • Profile picture of the author Zen Warrior
                    Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

                    Once a service has had sites deindexed it doesn't matter what you put on them - they will not count for anything. Google will not crawl them or pick up any new links form them so if you got links from such sites already deindexed they would have no effect. They are in siberia and google cares nothing about whats on them to even tank your competitor.
                    Understand that part Mike, just an analogy...but I wouldn't do it anyway, and I doubt most would either...but there would certainly be more than a few that would...IF it worked, as in spam links to sites to bring them down.
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  • Profile picture of the author dcristo
    Contrary to popular belief, blog comments have never been a link building tactic.
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    • Profile picture of the author MikeFriedman
      Originally Posted by dcristo View Post

      Contrary to popular belief, blog comments have never been a good link building tactic.
      Fixed it for you.

      People still do it, but I do not understand why.
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      • Profile picture of the author dcristo
        Originally Posted by MikeFriedman View Post

        Fixed it for you.

        People still do it, but I do not understand why.
        You don't need to understand why others are doing it.

        You just need to know why you're not doing it.

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  • Profile picture of the author 4morereferrals
    If I am your competitor and you outrank me and I find even one or two of your blog network posts I report you to Google because its obvious with all those links on that page even if you didn't post all of them.
    Mike - for real, you report hpbl networks to google's snitch form?
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    • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
      Originally Posted by 4morereferrals View Post

      Mike - for real, you report hpbl networks to google's snitch form?
      Calm thyself Steve. Stop trying to fish for something that isn't there and try quoting that in context

      So all this mix it up and do it slow business has absolutely no relevance. If I am your competitor and you outrank me and I find even one or two of your blog network posts I report you to Google because its obvious with all those links on that page even if you didn't post all of them. bye bye links. You could be using ten networks. Google will thank you because they just found ten more networks to go after.
      So it was a scenario I was describing not my personal practice. I have never reported anyone at any time but I will say one thing about that comment. I have seen it thrown at people who mention reporting before and my response is -

      Why do you think people have to live up to your morality or standards (not being a snitch etc) when you don't live up to theirs (say not manipulate rankings, not engaging in link spam, playing by Google's rules)?

      I can't whine and complain about people reporting my network sites to google. Thats the nature of the beast. I know googles rules and I can't look down my noses at those who play by those rules that don't like me jumping over them.

      Sites get reported ALL THE TIME and though it hasn't happened to me yet (that I know of) complaining or implying that its somehow folly on their part is just well hypocritical and inconsequential. I can't claim they should abide my standards of wrong and right if I don't abide by theirs

      anyway its the real world and people do report sites. That was my point. Imers can complain all day long about the ethics of it but seeing how the rest of the world views Imers themselves in a lot of cases as unsavory it doesn't matter what they think. Report will be made and its a SEOs job to live in that world.
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  • Profile picture of the author orseay
    Banned
    Let's be honest - this has always been a risk, and always will be a risk. With the latest Google changes, things are certainly not getting any easier for the blog networks.

    That being said, this doesn't necessarily mean I'm going to completely stop using them, however, I'm much more cautious now than I once was.
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  • Profile picture of the author gearmonkey
    Google has been cracking down on paid links the past 10-12 years.. but they don't unless it's way obvious. remember the JCpenny fiasco?
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    • Profile picture of the author jep
      Originally Posted by gearmonkey View Post

      Google has been cracking down on paid links the past 10-12 years.. but they don't unless it's way obvious. remember the JCpenny fiasco?
      I see that your PR7 website got shot down too eh.
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  • Profile picture of the author MagicWhisper
    I'm sorry if this sounds ignorant, but what are "paid blog networks" and "Private Blog Networks?" I tried to google what they are, and even though I found links about them, they never explained WHAT they are, just that one can buy them.
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  • Profile picture of the author MagicWhisper
    Could anyone tell me?
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  • Profile picture of the author ThatAblaze
    paid blog networks have a bunch of high PR blogs and a bit of web software. You write an article, sometimes you spin it, and put in their software and they post your article to one of their blogs. This way everyone is linking to everyone else, at least in theroy
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    • Profile picture of the author MagicWhisper
      Originally Posted by ThatAblaze View Post

      paid blog networks have a bunch of high PR blogs and a bit of web software. You write an article, sometimes you spin it, and put in their software and they post your article to one of their blogs. This way everyone is linking to everyone else, at least in theroy
      Thank you for your explanation. I was scratching my head in trying to figure this out, as well as this whole thread. I get it now.
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  • Profile picture of the author phyfun
    I think Google is not happy because the blog network did some of the google work. Google like the quality original content provide website.
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  • Profile picture of the author Mantasmo
    https://twitter.com/#!/mattcutts/sta...92083427823616

    Good luck bros! I'm so happy that I've kept my networks private the whole time.
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  • Profile picture of the author quickcontent
    If you look at it, most of the backlinking that is done is some form of paid backlinking. And there are those that even Google might not know if its trading links for money...So I doubt its doomsday yet...
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  • Profile picture of the author Mantasmo
    They've also been deactivating Adsense accounts (most likely due to these same links) lately. I know 2 people who got deactivation emails yesterday. Both of them had 20+ sites ranking with only ALN links. All sites got hit 2-3 days before the Adsense ban.

    The sites all had 20+ pages of content, custom headers, no spammy ad placements, privacy/terms/contact pages - the lot. The only thing that happened was the sudden hit across all domains and then a ban next day/a couple days later.

    People at the Googles are making a statement.
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    • Profile picture of the author mightiest
      Originally Posted by bnetwork View Post

      They've also been deactivating Adsense accounts (most likely due to these same links) lately. I know 2 people who got deactivation emails yesterday. Both of them had 20+ sites ranking with only ALN links. All sites got hit 2-3 days before the Adsense ban.

      The sites all had 20+ pages of content, custom headers, no spammy ad placements, privacy/terms/contact pages - the lot. The only thing that happened was the sudden hit across all domains and then a ban next day/a couple days later.

      People at the Googles are making a statement.
      Yeah... that they're completely desperate and have no answer to blog networks. Google has been deindexing blogs in blog networks since the dawn of time. Nothing has changed except that the blog networks have become more sophisticated and Google can't use algos to sort them out anymore.

      If Google was really so great at killing blog networks, why would Cutts have to brag about it? As far as I can tell, the rate of deindexing hasn't measurably increased on ALN, BMR, or any other blog network so his post about "coming after" ALN is complete BS. It's a scare tactic.

      Blog networks will continue to thrive and survive because they're extraordinarily difficult to detect if done properly.
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      • Profile picture of the author Mantasmo
        Originally Posted by mightiest View Post

        As far as I can tell, the rate of deindexing hasn't measurably increased on ALN, BMR, or any other blog network
        I sort of agree with your post, except for this part^^.

        The de-indexing rate has increased massively, at least on ALN. I mean come on man - even the owner sent out an email about it a few days back. They lost a huge chunk of the network overnight. I have friends (ALN blast providers) who lost anywhere from 50 to 200 blogs last week alone.

        Constantly replacing lost links with more links just isn't a long term strategy. It's much more effective to build a high quality 20 blog network and use it for your own needs. With ALN and similar you need to keep blasting non stop to keep the rankings up.
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    • Profile picture of the author bhuff85
      Originally Posted by bnetwork View Post

      They've also been deactivating Adsense accounts (most likely due to these same links) lately. I know 2 people who got deactivation emails yesterday. Both of them had 20+ sites ranking with only ALN links. All sites got hit 2-3 days before the Adsense ban.

      The sites all had 20+ pages of content, custom headers, no spammy ad placements, privacy/terms/contact pages - the lot. The only thing that happened was the sudden hit across all domains and then a ban next day/a couple days later.

      People at the Googles are making a statement.
      Rope me in with the other's. I had built several websites with numerous pages of content that was both in quality and relevant to the user. Low bounce rate, great numbers for on-site time, laser targeted quality content, unique structure, solid link mixture, etc.

      I built links using a mix of social links, content syndication and BMR. Had great results, until I wanted to add another network into the mix - Linkamotion. Unlike BMR, Linkamotion accepted spun content. The network appeared heavily regulated at first (even for using spun content, as it had to be 80% unique or it was denied), but once I started doing research on sites that my links were getting posted on, I realized I made a big mistake. Not only that, but there were articles posted on their sites that couldn't even be termed an article. It was THAT bad.

      I ended up cancelling my account there after 3 weeks, but the damage was done. All of my sites took a MAJOR hit, dropping 50+ spots or more. However, sites I owned that did NOT have links on this network remained OK, leaving me to believe this was one of those networks that started taking a hit. Since it isn't as "popular", I never saw any feedback from other users or heard anything regarding any issues with it.

      Fast forward to today (about a month later from the hit) and I get notice that my Adsense account was disabled for "possible risk to advertisers". Had that sucker for nearly 5+ years and never had an issue with it. Coincidence? Not sure at this point.

      Regardless, it's clear what Google wants and does not want. I'd rather build something that is valuable and can stand on its own regardless. Search traffic is just a bonus. Probably should've done that to begin with, but hey - we all make mistakes when we try to chase the golden goose. It is what it is.
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  • Profile picture of the author JimSEO
    Blog/Article sites being deindexed isn't a myth. I've seen many drops for my competitors who we talk with reguarly, and they have been using distribution services for years. Whilst not as bad, I've also seen a couple of drop for some of my own sites.

    In fact, I was quite fortunate to get information from SEO Linkm*nster, who said that "some" of their sites have been deindexed. Although apparently they have taken these down and replaced them with new ones. I can't make this message public, so it's up to you whether or not you want to take my word for it.

    Also there is an interesting article about it, with reference to the world famous Warrior Forum which can read here: Private Blog Networks Getting Deindexed? (it's been updated at the bottom).

    Just my 2 cents.
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  • Profile picture of the author MediaMughal
    One should not use paid blog networks these days instead they should make their own network of high pr blogs and make them help their other sites rank. These people send reports to their clients and they get the url of the blogs the paid blog network own.

    Some people do give out the report to other people and they do submit those urls in google spam department and Matt Cutts, deindexes or devalue the website..

    I own a high pr aged blog network of ~20 domains and they are on unique ips and multiple servers. They help a lot to rank my other site

    My 2 cents..

    Thanks
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  • Profile picture of the author bigwillstyle
    They certainly are find the networks and banning them. It isn't worth it - no way.
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  • Profile picture of the author Cataclysm1987
    Here's a list of networks I've found to be in trouble:

    Authority Link Network
    Build My Rank
    Elite Link Network (Closed)

    Lots of smaller networks are getting hit too, particular home page networks. Google is getting angry.
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    • Profile picture of the author Uncleflag
      Originally Posted by Cataclysm1987 View Post

      Here's a list of networks I've found to be in trouble:

      Authority Link Network
      Build My Rank
      Elite Link Network (Closed)

      Lots of smaller networks are getting hit too, particular home page networks. Google is getting angry.

      ALL 300 of the manual sites in SEO Nitro are not indexed any more...plus I looked at several hundred the automated posts and they were all de-indexed.
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  • Profile picture of the author jubril58
    Long story short, if there is slight hesitation in you saying is this right or wrong in google's eyes. Google doesn't play around and when they catch on the are ruthless. Basically if any methods you are in question it's just a MATTER of time before they say , your account has been banned.
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  • Profile picture of the author mosthost
    "SEO Link Monster" is sort an ironic name in light of the recent developments. That monster can devour a site whole
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    • Profile picture of the author Zen Warrior
      Anyway, interesting stuff here...this SEO business sure isn't one that you just set and forget.

      (I do have a few clients, and have them in the A or B spot in G Places for several KWs for HVAC and DJs, so am not a total newbie.)

      That being said,. anyone want a BMR subscription?

      Decided that BMR isn't something I want to be invested in, too much time and money for what appears to be risky as things are progressing.

      Besides, as has been noted elsewhere, I have 10 newer posts on BMR, only 3 have been indexed, 7 not including several almost a week old.

      And I have seen on another thread that some folks posts that were once indexed aren't a few months later.

      So, back to the basics, my money is better spent elsewhere I am thinking.
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      • Profile picture of the author nik0
        Banned
        Originally Posted by Zen Warrior View Post

        Anyway, interesting stuff here...this SEO business sure isn't one that you just set and forget.

        (I do have a few clients, and have them in the A or B spot in G Places for several KWs for HVAC and DJs, so am not a total newbie.)

        That being said,. anyone want a BMR subscription?

        Decided that BMR isn't something I want to be invested in, too much time and money for what appears to be risky as things are progressing.

        Besides, as has been noted elsewhere, I have 10 newer posts on BMR, only 3 have been indexed, 7 not including several almost a week old.

        And I have seen on another thread that some folks posts that were once indexed aren't a few months later.

        So, back to the basics, my money is better spent elsewhere I am thinking.
        Have to agree with you, spending around $1 for 1 post with 1 link, not really worth it, since most blogs get deindexed after a manual review cause someone reported it then it won't matter whether a blog accepts unique or spun content, a reviewer sees right through it anyway. Personally I use high pr society, the index rate isn't very high but I rank very well with it, and I only pay 7.5 cents for an article that contains 2 links.
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  • Everything here still looks fine to me. My blogs are still moving up. Hope it stays that way !
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  • Profile picture of the author rodanglee
    BMR have to cross out the 'must be unique and readable content' strategy and look for more viable ways to develop their remaining blogs before google let loose another wave of deindexing.
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  • Profile picture of the author todawg_not
    Is BMR a bust Bawhaaaa.... ?

    I had words with admin in Feb after every second post was getting rejected and told them to shove it
    there's no way there getting my $59 buckaroo's then I here this from
    JamesW

    JamesW on his thread is experiencing some issues with BMR and his articles being
    de-indexed which could me BMR blog is DOOOOOOOMMMM..
    http://www.warriorforum.com/adsense-...-games-up.html

    Any one else can confirm BMR's demise?
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    • Profile picture of the author Berkinb
      Indeed, I can confirm that as not a single post (out of 1000) is indexed as of now.

      Originally Posted by todawg_not View Post

      Is BMR a bust Bawhaaaa.... ?

      I had words with admin in Feb after every second post was getting rejected and told them to shove it
      there's no way there getting my $59 buckaroo's then I here this from
      JamesW

      JamesW on his thread is experiencing some issues with BMR and his articles being
      de-indexed which could me BMR blog is DOOOOOOOMMMM..
      http://www.warriorforum.com/adsense-...-games-up.html

      Any one else can confirm BMR's demise?
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      • Profile picture of the author todawg_not
        Originally Posted by Berkinb View Post

        Indeed, I can confirm that as not a single post (out of 1000) is indexed as of now.
        Wow, the time and effort involved to get posts not to mention the cost.

        I would be calling you credit company up and asking for a refund

        The services rendered were technically not delivered

        Paypal will side with you on this, they protect buyers more than sellers
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        • Profile picture of the author mosthost
          Originally Posted by todawg_not View Post

          Wow, the time and effort involved to get posts not to mention the cost.

          I would be calling you credit company up and asking for a refund

          The services rendered were technically not delivered

          Paypal will side with you on this, they protect buyers more than sellers
          PayPal doesn't offer buyers protection on intangible goods like this.

          More importantly, he did receive the service. The service was the right to post 'blog entries' onto the 'BMR network' of blogs. He did that.

          Unless they guaranteed rankings or search engine indexing, there's no argument.

          I'm sure most people perceived they were purchasing rankings and 'permanent one-way contextual links,' but that is 'too good to be true.'

          I think it's totally okay to cancel, but initiating PayPal chargebacks is definitely not the way (BTW, according to PayPal TOS you have to exhaust all avenues of dealing with the seller first, before opening a dispute.)

          So ask BMR for a refund first and give them sufficient time to respond.
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          • Profile picture of the author bbncu
            Just to make it better guys, try to get a copy of your posts from BMR. They should be "original" again and you can package them up to form an article that will surely pass ezine or buzzle or just put them up as content on your site...
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            • Profile picture of the author mosthost
              Originally Posted by bbncu View Post

              Just to make it better guys, try to get a copy of your posts from BMR. They should be "original" again and you can package them up to form an article that will surely pass ezine or buzzle or just put them up as content on your site...
              I like the fighting spirit! Try and salvage something out of it.

              I really think Google targeted 'SEO Services' by infiltrating the forums, networks etc.

              Plus all the snitches that turn in spam reports etc. The 'Men in White Hats' filling out their reports must be feeling very clever right now.

              Still, these changes just leave more holes in Google. The best bet it is to look for a big truck to drive through one of those holes
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            • Profile picture of the author todawg_not
              Originally Posted by bbncu View Post

              Just to make it better guys, try to get a copy of your posts from BMR. They should be "original" again and you can package them up to form an article that will surely pass ezine or buzzle or just put them up as content on your site...
              Wasn't aware about intangables with paypal

              but good point by bbncu to repost your articles since they are already de-indexed.
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              • Profile picture of the author mosthost
                Originally Posted by todawg_not View Post

                Wasn't aware about intangables with paypal

                but good point by bbncu to repost your articles since they are already de-indexed.
                Most people aren't aware about the issue with PayPal. I just happen to work with billing for years now.

                Still, I think you're more than justified to 'demand' a refund straight from the vendor.

                But I think this is how it really breaks down.

                Companies grow their affiliate network. The affiliates actually write the posts about 'How BMR boosted up my rankings,' etc. The webmasters of the affiliate sites push the pre-sold traffic into BMR where they sign up. They're excited about their rankings.

                They click on 'I Agree' and skip reading the terms where the site states 'You're on your own. Not responsible for loss of income' etc.

                Despite all that, if I was running the program, I probably would refund anyone who 'just paid' on a subscription without too many questions. That's especially true if ALL THEIR FRIGGING blog posts for two years were gone along with their rankings.

                But that's just me.
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  • Profile picture of the author Berkinb
    Those 1000 posts are dating back to June 2011 and have been indexed ever since (until this day).

    I am not going to ask for a refund or anything since this is not actually their (BMR's) fault. We all knew what we were paying for and that nothing is forever (read longer than a few months) in SEO.

    I actually feel sorry for BMR... For me, it was good while it lasted.
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  • Profile picture of the author mosthost
    Looks awesome for sure
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    • Profile picture of the author HKSEO Rotzee
      Originally Posted by mosthost View Post

      Looks awesome for sure
      I hope so! Its hard to trust pictures...it will either be better or worse than them but it has really good reviews. The only bad one was once when a volley ball tournament was right in front of it and the stands blocked the view....but that ain't happening when I'm there so I should be good.
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  • Profile picture of the author mosthost
    A beach like that almost has to be great
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  • Profile picture of the author Lukas
    There's not much suntanning areas in Long Beach but other nearby beaches have more sand for that and activities like pro beach volleyball . No, I would not turn down LB's nice areas at all.
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    • Profile picture of the author HKSEO Rotzee
      Originally Posted by Lukas View Post

      There's not much suntanning areas in Long Beach but other nearby beaches have more sand for that and activities like pro beach volleyball . No, I would not turn down LB's nice areas at all.
      Well, only the tournament is is Long beach, we will be staying in Hermosa....
      Here is a shot of me there a couple years ago..



      You can see the water is bright green, like a corona commercial lol

      I also like the views from Point Vicente, here is some shots from the same trip...It is so peaceful there. I wish we had the views like that here =D





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  • Profile picture of the author Zeb
    So i guess now the sky is falling?
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    • Profile picture of the author 1byte
      Originally Posted by Zeb View Post

      So i guess now the sky is falling?

      Yep, for many people today "the sky is falling."
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      • Profile picture of the author HKSEO Rotzee
        Originally Posted by 1byte View Post

        Yep, for many people today "the sky is falling."
        And link diversity is the umbrella keeping the rest of us safe =)
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        • Profile picture of the author GGpaul
          Originally Posted by HKSEO Rotzee View Post

          And link diversity is the umbrella keeping the rest of us safe =)
          Hermosa Beach is nice. Where are you from? Long Beach is a fun city at night. Go to 2nd street and you'll have a blast. But the beach itself is garbage (in my opinion). If you really want to go to the beach just go to Bolsa Chica, Huntington and Redondo/Hermosa/Venice/Santa Monica.

          Anyways, hope all is well with you and your service.
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          • Profile picture of the author HKSEO Rotzee
            Originally Posted by GGpaul View Post

            Hermosa Beach is nice. Where are you from? Long Beach is a fun city at night. Go to 2nd street and you'll have a blast. But the beach itself is garbage (in my opinion). If you really want to go to the beach just go to Bolsa Chica, Huntington and Redondo/Hermosa/Venice/Santa Monica.

            Anyways, hope all is well with you and your service.
            I'm from Houston Texas, but I fly to california in the summer and usually colorado and new york for winters. Yeah, I like Redondo, Hermosa and Venice beach....I still need to hit up Santa Monica....maybe this trip Ill hit it up.

            I'll definitely take the tip on 2nd street as well, thanks brother.
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  • Profile picture of the author mosthost
    The Sky fell and the rivers turned dark RED with the blood of webmasters.

    Matt Cutts is having a great day, though, so look on the bright side
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    • Profile picture of the author 1byte
      Originally Posted by mosthost View Post

      The Sky fell and the rivers turned dark RED with the blood of webmasters.

      Matt Cutts is having a great day, though, so look on the bright side
      Ha ha, that's a good one!
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    • Profile picture of the author jinx1221
      Originally Posted by mosthost View Post

      The Sky fell and the rivers turned dark RED with the blood of webmasters.

      Matt Cutts is having a great day, though, so look on the bright side
      Dude, that statement is borderline satanic! Lol!!
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  • Profile picture of the author mmresources
    BMR shut down today, done.
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  • Profile picture of the author hobokook
    Yeah I'm done buying links FOREVER. From now on, it's gonna be squidoo, hubpages, free blogs, social bookmarking, guest posting, and writing damn good content.
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    • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
      Originally Posted by J0hnnycl1ckz View Post

      I lol at these threads that are all hype / "what I've seen" based arguments without a shred of physical evidence to backup any claims. For all we know "what you've seen" could very well just be a fairytale you've conjured up in your own head. Keep them coming, really, it's quite comical.
      My personal shout out to Johnny cl1ck Z


      - still think I was making my claims based out of a fairy tale conjured up in my mind? Wheres the comedy now bro? :
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  • Profile picture of the author systematical
    I find it funny some mod here deleted my reply. Did it add to the conversation much? No. Did it poke fun at people using shady SEO practices? Yes. But there was nothing vulgar or over the top in there. It goes to show why I created an account here once, looked at the people on here, and decided the types of people here and the tactics advocated by many here make me not want to be associated with this place.

    Warrior? Heh. This one will get deleted as well, but meh, so will the link building tactics of most on here. Good day.
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    • Profile picture of the author Dellco
      Originally Posted by systematical View Post

      I find it funny some mod here deleted my reply. Did it add to the conversation much? No. Did it poke fun at people using shady SEO practices? Yes. But there was nothing vulgar or over the top in there. It goes to show why I created an account here once, looked at the people on here, and decided the types of people here and the tactics advocated by many here make me not want to be associated with this place.

      Warrior? Heh. This one will get deleted as well, but meh, so will the link building tactics of most on here. Good day.
      Don't let the door hit you on the way out.
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    • Profile picture of the author IM Ash
      Originally Posted by systematical View Post

      It goes to show why I created an account here once, looked at the people on here, and decided the types of people here and the tactics advocated by many here make me not want to be associated with this place.
      I only see pixels on my screen
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      • Profile picture of the author 15minutes
        Anyone got any feedback on Traffic Kaboom
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  • Profile picture of the author Steadyon
    Does all this mean that any bad intentioned person could create links to a competitor's site using these "public" blog networks - then wait for google to effectively hammer any decent rankings (legitimate) it may have had?
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  • Profile picture of the author mark1230
    I think it is old news...any way google can do whatever they want to do with their search engine ..You can do whatever you want to do with your site,.
    and yes an update link vault is back in google
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  • Profile picture of the author MaroshIS
    BMR is dead.

    Is it the big Victory of that stupid Indian guy from this Forum who submitted all URL's of BMR blogs to Big G?

    I saw his annoying thread here lately, but now it looks to be deleted.
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    • Profile picture of the author GGpaul
      Originally Posted by MaroshIS View Post

      BMR is dead.

      Is it the big Victory of that stupid Indian guy from this Forum who submitted all URL's of BMR blogs to Big G?

      I saw his annoying thread here lately, but now it looks to be deleted.
      What's up with these racist remarks? Can we get a modifier here? The Warriorforum has been filled with trolls as of late. Usually it happens when things aren't working for them, or when a huge program such as BMR closes down.
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  • Profile picture of the author Marc Marseille
    The way I see it, the only real solution is to create your own network of blogs that you do not share with anyone. Create quality content on that blog network that humans would actually enjoy to read.

    One other solution is to create one highly relevant blog and utilize the social networks to create a buzz which Google seems to really love nowadays. In fact they love social media so much they created their own...
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    • Profile picture of the author HKSEO Rotzee
      Originally Posted by Marc Marseille View Post

      The way I see it, the only real solution is to create your own network of blogs that you do not share with anyone. Create quality content on that blog network that humans would actually enjoy to read.

      One other solution is to create one highly relevant blog and utilize the social networks to create a buzz which Google seems to really love nowadays. In fact they love social media so much they created their own...
      Not true, we talked to a guy, we'll call "J" and this is his story, from a larger emailer that went out about our personal network.


      Private Network Owner "J"
      - Fully private network of over 2000 sites. Only HE posted on the network.
      - Content was average quality.
      - Lost 90% around a month ago.

      As "J" lost his network, we compared notes. at the time, Our network was staying alive while his was getting destroyed. As it turns out, we were both using SEOHosting.com. We both had multiple servers with them and we noticed that his servers were getting taken down one by one. We had overlap with him on one server, and that server had around 50% deindexing for us. That day we moved hosting and locked things down and everything has been great for a month.

      Click Here for full info
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      • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
        Originally Posted by HKSEO Rotzee View Post


        As "J" lost his network, we compared notes.
        J built his network the same way that you did with spun content so the point the poster makes stands.
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  • Profile picture of the author glock67
    i haven't notice anything negative happen to my blog
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  • Profile picture of the author joshpat2
    UAW is next ? they just started blocking their link reports
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    • Profile picture of the author todawg_not
      Originally Posted by joshpat2 View Post

      UAW is next ? they just started blocking their link reports
      Can anyone verify this.

      I have never used UAW but to the best of my knowledge it's a submitter to 3rd party article directories which UAW do not own.

      How can they get hit when they don't own the properties unless some of the article directories themselves have been de-indexed.!!!

      Not like BMR which owned the sites in their blog network and the whole
      lot got de-indexed.

      Can anyone else elaborate on this?


      Nigel
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      • Profile picture of the author mightiest
        Originally Posted by todawg_not View Post

        Can anyone verify this.

        I have never used UAW but to the best of my knowledge it's a submitter to 3rd party article directories which UAW do not own.

        How can they get hit when they don't own the properties unless some of the article directories themselves have been de-indexed.!!!

        Not like BMR which owned the sites in their blog network and the whole
        lot got de-indexed.

        Can anyone else elaborate on this?


        Nigel
        UAW isn't a scheme to manipulate pagerank and artificially boost rankings, BMR is / was.

        Google might think that article directories are crap, but they ostensibly serve a purpose -- to provide a reader with information they're looking for. BMR provides no value to anyone.

        Also, there's nothing Google can do about UAW. As you say, it is a piece of software to submit articles to article directories.
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        • Originally Posted by mightiest View Post

          UAW isn't a scheme to manipulate pagerank and artificially boost rankings, BMR is / was.
          :confused: For what other reason would someone be posting to UAW?
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          • Profile picture of the author mjohnson2009
            I just ran across this piece that shows how private blog networks are using techniques not far off from BMR. Huge and well funded entities like LexisNexis are doing what other erstwhile services WERE doing. They're just doing it better and smarter. LN is such a massive information broker I don't think G would touch them, short of some blatant and intolerable misstep.

            I have no affiliation with the site below.

            Falconbergdotcom
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          • Profile picture of the author Nick Kringas
            Originally Posted by ThousandDollarDays View Post

            :confused: For what other reason would someone be posting to UAW?
            I got the same response during my chat with UAW support.

            The only explanation is that BMR was putting content on sites that they owned with the only purpose of gaming the Big G.

            UAW posts articles on directories and on other people's sites that want content. It's not a private blog network.

            Both are used for ranking better but there is a difference.....
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            • Profile picture of the author MarQueteer
              Originally Posted by Nick Kringas View Post

              Both are used for ranking better but there is a difference.....
              I highly doubt it's different from Google's point of view...
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    • Profile picture of the author Nick Kringas
      Originally Posted by joshpat2 View Post

      UAW is next ? they just started blocking their link reports
      Google is on the warpath right now so blocking the list of sites in their network is probably a good idea.

      How easy would it be for people who got the unnatural linking email from gwt to turn around and provide google with the exact list of sites that they've created links on?

      Sounds ridiculous but people actually dropped their pants and told them everything....
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  • Profile picture of the author kamlesh23
    Let us assume that google is going to ban paid blogs network, then if the members who have joined paid blogs network as publisher can get thier blogs banned in google as well.
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  • Profile picture of the author hunti410
    I was using LINK MINK and they have just stated that they have had sites de-indexed and cancelled my monthly subs. Disappointing news....[or have I been scammed,,,,hmmm]
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  • Profile picture of the author lioncool
    BMR got hit dead now
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  • Profile picture of the author dsimms
    Does anyone know anything about Drip Feed Links? I used them for about 2-3 months, and noticed not a thing getting indexed, they wanted me to buy into linklious thinge...Normally I do not have issues getting content indexed, nor should I have to pay extra on a service to get them indexed; so i imagine after reading all of this, they were already de-indexed, but had no issues still collecting money, and not telling new people; I was already paying for me, and they wanted me to pay for another service.
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  • I think that Blog Networks will be around for a long time. Will there be changes made that give Google what they want to make it all work again?

    Yep!

    And they will take a lot more work, but in the long run the networks themselves will be more valuable, profitable and most of all effective...

    Just MHO.

    Oh, and I don't for a second believe that BMR will really call it quits. They may reopen under a different name and do it all completely differently, but they are a class act and too smart and savvy not to keep at it.
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  • Profile picture of the author seopratik
    my website ranking is also dropped and i am using high pr society for link building. This happen on this week.what is the solutions of google new update
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  • Profile picture of the author snuguy
    really!?
    Oh my god!
    I cant believe it!
    then, what's the answer now...?
    lol
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  • Profile picture of the author Mario29
    So am I understanding correctly that nobody knows what to do after Google Panda 3.3?
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    • Profile picture of the author hammertorch
      Originally Posted by Mario29 View Post

      So am I understanding correctly that nobody knows what to do after Google Panda 3.3?
      by the way guys and to all warriors, how do you check when will be the next google panda update? Can you share me some website that will provide updates about google news, panda update? :confused:
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    • Profile picture of the author kaizerinfo
      Originally Posted by Mario29 View Post

      So am I understanding correctly that nobody knows what to do after Google Panda 3.3?
      You need to create your own private blog network.
      And the best tool to create it,already exist,and is very cheap,because of discounts.

      Just think,how BMR work,it's the example of bad blog network.The post your article spunned to all blogs.
      The right way is to post totally different content on each blog,with your link.

      To run network you need blogs.
      Blogs need content always.
      Blogs must be on different class ips.
      And so on.
      When you will try to solve all above things,check all softwares,and you will find the one wich i told.
      Of course if you lazy as me and want maximum automation, I am sure you will find the same software.
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  • Profile picture of the author kaseygreer
    Sounds like scare mongering to me!
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  • Profile picture of the author radivoj
    You should check it out this post here about Blog network's getting deindexed by Google they call it The Google Blog Network Massacre...
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  • Profile picture of the author adriel97
    Thanks for the heads up, Nigel.
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  • Profile picture of the author jacksonlin
    I found this on the WF somewhere, it was very good. Google is on a fishing expedition.

    Google Phishing Expedition 2012 | iAcquire's Blog
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    • Profile picture of the author Steve09
      Thanks jacksonlin, just read it, very good. Exactly says why one should not be scarred to death but observe the things and act accordingly. Never fall for the authority rant...
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