Great SEO - Fear Is Your Enemy

19 replies
  • SEO
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I read so many articles and posts on this and other forums by many worried IMers that I'm concerned that this level of fear is going to prevent some people with excellent ideas and great SEO skills from taking the massive action that is required to make a success of this profession. (for profession it surely is - we are the "Madmen" of the internet no less...well more or less :rolleyes: )

Here's an example;

Originally Posted by WSO Contributer

Well I still think it is pretty easy for google to catch up the blogs in your network.

They can just register your service, and then submit some articles. Then do some specific phrases search in quote, and they can find all the blogs that post their articles. And de-index them.
We've all been thinking this for months now. Probably ever since Panda hit in the Spring of 2011.
But let's take a step back and rationalise this fear and see what effect it's having and why we are playing into Google's hands by propagating this fear which is stunning so many in IM into inaction - when what is needed to succeed in this field is massive action.

So Google deindexed most of BMR (I pick on BMR because it seems the one most have discussed) this is no doubt a "bad thing" - but let's look at where this has lead many otherwise rational people to take their thoughts.

"I Syndicate my work - Google is actively looking for networks - My syndicated work actually forms a traceable network THEREFORE Maybe I shouldn't syndicate my articles/posts/thoughts for the purposes of traffic and links"
But how else are you going to get links?
Sure the MOZ boys will tell you to play the "long game" Cultivate "proper" relationships. Actively add to the internet with thoughtful prose.

Yes - you can do that;

But isn't doing that when the end goal you have in mind is "profit" EXACTY THE SAME AS ANY OTHER FORM OF ACTIVE SEO.... JUST A LOT SLOWER?

There is little if any real altruism in creating these relationships and forming these B2B links - the overarching reason you are doing it is to advance your own business JUST A LOT SLOWER THAN THOSE WHO AUTOMATE.

Ok - maybe I'm being a little cynical. But look where this paranoid line of thought could lead (logically SHOULD lead)

Google do not like self promotion. They can easily spot link profiles and are well aware of the platforms used to create these link structures whether they are paid services or sites accessed through automated tools.

So - taking the "too scared to act" idea just half a step further forward. Surely Google could use their own index and find;

  • A list of a few million auto approve blogs and de-index them,
  • Perhaps twenty of thirty million none moderated forums and de-index them
  • Then find a few hundred thousand unmoderated wiki sites and deindex them.
  • Perhaps join ever link program going and de-index them
  • Get smart and filter out any review site that allows HTML code in the comments and de-index them...
...and on and on and on

The question wouldn't be "Will they do it"
The question if they are serious about removing 'gamed' linking from SERPS should be "Why haven't they already done it"?

It would take an application like scrapebox about a week to do the above, then Google could have a massive list of "spam" sites and just de-index the LOT. Why don't they?

Here's why..

  • Because these sites ARE the internet
  • People HAVE A CHOICE whether to use Google or not
  • Censorship is something G have to be extremely wary of
  • It would take 20 seconds to change my default search engine from Google to Yahoo. I would do this if Google started to play "big brother" too much.
  • Website owners are the motivators and "plants" of the internet. We are asked by friends and family all the time "What is best"? or "Where can I find such and such"? For every one of us here on WSO and similar sites there are perhaps a dozen others who listen to our advice on "internet stuff" If we tell them "No point going to Google - they censor half the internet, go to X, Y or Z instead" - they will likely take our advice and leave.

How many people have a positive "emotional" involvement with Google? Anyone? A fraction of 1% of their visitors maybe?

To the rest of us Google is a tool, a website we use, one that could be replaced in minutes. I could switch my entire PPC to Yahoo or Bing in 30 minutes flat if I needed to.

In effect Google is one asanine act of "over censorship" or "scandal" of any kind and the 20 seconds it takes for people to change their defauls SE away from disaster.... AND THEY KNOW IT.

The effect of Panda is far more than the algorithm changes themselves. Googles biggest bonus (one they undoubtedly knew would occur) is the sudden inaction casued by fear of what these changes "might be"..where they "might lead", what effect they "might have".

By keeping the whole algorithm change a "black box" process, by hints at what "we may be rolling out next" (wink wink).. they have managed to create a far bigger effect on SEO than the algorithm itself has ever had...

FEAR OF TAKING POSITIVE AND MASSIVE ACTION

Back to BMR

People who used BMR made money. I did - for 2 years my BMR links made me money by improving the SERPS of a couple of sites. In the mean time I added links for all over the place. Some services, some self made, some made with tools. just kept piling them on, tens and tens of thousands of them.

BMR went - my sites bounced a little - recovered after some link love, overall I made a massive ROI on my investment with BMR and accepted its demise.

I could have been less lucky and only jumped on board 6 months ago sure, but that's a risk.
Business is a risk. We need to accept that and live with it. If you aren't prepared to take a risk - you aren't really cut out to be in business. There are no Guarantees - EVER

If I'd have sat their and not made links - I wouldn't have made that money.

If I was worried that my HDTV would soon be replaced by 3DTV - I might not have bought it, but when I read about 3DTV I see new screen techs coming that negate the need for glasses, then I see following that another tech that allows 3D projection..then (continue ad nauseum)

You have to just jump on and start working at some point or accept that you never will.

BUSINESS IS A RISK. LINK BUILDING IS A RISK - EVEN THE APPROVED "MOZ" WAY

  • IF YOU ARE STUNNED INTO INACTION YOU WILL FAIL
  • SUCCESS NEARLY ALWAYS REQUIRES MASSIVE ACTION
  • MAKE YOUR JUDGEMENT THEN FOLLOW THROUGH
  • THERE ARE NO GURANTEES..ANYWHERE!
  • MITIGATE RISK BY OBFUSCATING YOUR PROCESS OF LINK BUILDING AND CONTENT CREATION
  • WHATEVER LINKING IDEAS YOU USE NOW WILL NEED ALTERING ONE DAY SOON - IT'S ALWAYS BEEN THAT WAY - AND PROBABLY ALWAYS WILL

BUT WHATEVER YOU DO - DO NOT STOP BECAUSE YOU FEAR THE UNKNOWN - I GUARANTEE THAT WILL LEAD TO FAILURE

Let's get on with it. While the world economies slow to a stop - let's not join them because of fear. Grasp the opportunities here on the internet and run with them.TODAY!
#content syndication #enemy #fear #fear of success #great #link build #seo
  • Profile picture of the author StephenDavies
    Originally Posted by Scritty View Post

    If I was worried that my HDTV would soon be replaced by 3DTV - I might not have bought it, but when I read about 3DTV I see new screen techs coming that negate the need for glasses, then I see following that another tech that allows 3D projection..then (continue ad nauseum)
    Great post, and a good example of waiting untill all the ducks are lined up. Better to do as you did and take advantage of the tools and services that are out there NOW.

    But to also keep on eye on the alternatives so that you can make a quick switch to an alternative traffic getting / monetisation method in case one of the ones you are using disappears on you. As you are also doing.

    Originally Posted by Scritty View Post

    You have to just jump on and start working at some point or accept that you never will.
    Just do it, monitor the results, modify your actions, then do some more.
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  • Profile picture of the author retsek
    You are right about the "Moz" way. It does take longer and is more intensive having the need to build relationships.

    So I tend to do both. For sites which are dispensable, I am more risky with their link building. There's nothing like going from $0 to $3000 in a month or two with a new site and some automated link building.

    For larger sites, I tend to follow much much cleaner methods. They are much more stable and better for a long-term operation.

    Having been doing both on a consistent basis, I can say this.

    Google has gotten MUCH better at filtering (and not counting) many of the various different types of manipulative links over the last few months. This includes everything from comment spam to super obscure private link networks. And they are only getting better by the day.
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    • Profile picture of the author Scritty
      Originally Posted by retsek View Post

      Google has gotten MUCH better at filtering (and not counting) many of the various different types of manipulative links over the last few months. This includes everything from comment spam to super obscure private link networks. And they are only getting better by the day.
      The perception is that Google has got a lot better at filtering.
      I'm sure they have indeed got better at it.
      What I'm not so certain about is just how much.

      Profit is not an ephemeral thing. Profit today is fine. It's "real" and it counts.
      If that same site/method does not produce profit tomorrow - then do something else.

      Building relationships (real ones) is fantastic, and in the long run is what will turn a career that replaces an "average Joe's" old income - into one that has the potential to make someone in IM genuinely wealthy.

      Many new to IM are scared to start. Worried by all the talk of how clever the search engines are becoming. Paralyzed by the fear of making the wrong choice.

      Others are just "doing" - sometimes stumbling - but then getting back up and doing more and better. They are making money - those that procrastinate and fear the new paradigm are probably not.

      G are surely better than they were before at sorting the wheat from the chaff, but I'm genuinely not that convinced that they are that much better.

      But making us THINK they are - well that's a massive win for them.
      A masterpiece of marketing. Huge results by rumour and fear. Effortlessly brilliant. I could almost take my hat off to them.

      I will add that onsite content seems to get more and more valuable as time goes on. Links are of course a massive factor, but rather than trace the providence of every link, G seems to be paying far more notice of on site factors. Lots of content and regularly updated (whether that is appropriate for your websites niche or not sadly).

      Let's not foget, Google is there to make a profit.
      It's not "the internet police" - it's not really there to "Give visitors the best experience with a search engine" despite that being the line they toe..No it's there to make a profit for investors.

      The rules of pareto and diminishing returns apply with this endevour of theirs as they do with most other forms of business improvement.

      Pareto roughly means you get 80% of the results for the first 20% of effort - then it starts getting costlier and less effiecient the harder you push.

      The minute checking the providence of every link starts to cost more than the results of a "cleaner" set of search results brings in in terms of revenue..they will stop doing it. Rest assured.

      Scritty
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  • Profile picture of the author mrehan
    A very motivating post.
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  • Profile picture of the author dotslash
    Top post Scritty ! It's easy to get spooked by these big changes and think Google are a lot cleverer and far seeing than they really are. If their algorithm was immune to link building tactics like BMR they wouldn't have needed to have deindexed all the sites.
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  • Profile picture of the author PriceMaster
    Great tips thank you. I guess SEO isn't for the faint hearted
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  • Profile picture of the author goosefrabah
    Scritty! I signed up through one of your sites recently. Learning from your site alone is indispensable. The immense amount of information you provide has kept me going back almost daily. Okay I got off topic.

    Since BMR kicked the bucket are you still using any blog networks?
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    • Profile picture of the author LIndaB
      The effect of Panda is far more than the algorithm changes themselves. Googles biggest bonus (one they undoubtedly knew would occur) is the sudden inaction casued by fear of what these changes "might be"..where they "might lead", what effect they "might have".

      By keeping the whole algorithm change a "black box" process, by hints at what "we may be rolling out next" (wink wink).. they have managed to create a far bigger effect on SEO than the algorithm itself has ever had...

      FEAR OF TAKING POSITIVE AND MASSIVE ACTION
      I couldn't agree more! I really think that Google does something like the BMR deindexing every once in awhile just to keep internet marketers scrambling and in fear, so they end up not doing anything at all.

      People need to realize, though, that just because a blog network is deindexed doesn't mean YOUR site will be deindexed. You might drop in the rankings simply because those links will no longer count. So the best thing to do is get more links, not quit because Google deindexed one network.

      Google has always fought a war against SEO. But in the final analysis, they are the ones at fault for this. They based their search engine on linking way back when they first started, and it's been that way ever since. The algorithm may change all the time, and they may add in other factors, such as social, but that's not going to change any time soon.
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    • Profile picture of the author Scritty
      Originally Posted by drem View Post

      Since BMR kicked the bucket are you still using any blog networks?
      Sorry got the PM on the other forum all of 7 months after you sent it. No idea what heppened there.

      Yes - I used some Russian networks for a while - but now make my own. A mix of hand made and automation. Controlling 50-100 first tier blogs isn't something I could do by hand.

      Content is the biggest drain however. Syndication, a very (very) good PLR subscription, a couple of the content providers on here on Warrior and my own writing (speech to text) efforts along side that of my VA..all added up together gives me a decent balance of content.

      Scritty
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      • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
        Good time to review this thread since its from last year

        Although some of the OP holds Penguin disproved a great deal of it and Penguin 2 will prove even more of it wrong.
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        • Profile picture of the author Scritty
          Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

          Good time to review this thread since its from last year

          Although some of the OP holds Penguin disproved a great deal of it and Penguin 2 will prove even more of it wrong.
          Nope - you couldn't be more wrong if you tried. Provably wrong.

          Penguin improved all but one of my sites for the keywords I am after and that site already is still number 1 for 143 of the 411 keywords it targets a couple slipped for that site (it did have 172 number 1's before, but even those that slipped are improving again)

          Of the other 7 sites I have seen improvement ranging from "ok" (144 out of 612 up to 151 out of 612) to stunning (311 out of 914 to 557 out of 914).

          I should add that 7 of my sites are reasonably aged (between 5 and 17 years old) have a PR range of 4 to 7 and each has regular content updates.

          I say this because - like most things in life - it's "horses for courses" what works on one of my 16 year old sites with 44,000 indexed URL's and over 2.5 million words of unique content/videos and authority may well be the kiss of death for someone's site promoting an Amazon garden chair on a site with 300 words of content, no authority and no PR - that they put up last week.

          If you don't qualify SEO advice with as much context as possible it's pretty worthless IMO.

          The fact that a certain network (S%P£) wins every battle it fights with high PR links and nothing else (no content, no relevance, no niche specificity etc - SWL links in tag fields and footers - links hacked onto websites without owners consent) shows just how painfully poor Google are these days. If anything.

          Other than tidying up the top 100 commercial sectors, Googles overall SERP policy seems to be getting worse with every update.

          Steer clear of the top commercial terms (which I suspect Google manages the index by hand) and Googles approach to indexing and ranking is poorer and less consistent than it was 10 years ago..

          Penguin 2 was a joke. I see the BH guys ranking and banking - but SE's who claim they are "whiter than white" here, at traffic planet, at Google forums, at Matt Cutt's blog, at Moz, searchengineland etc etc... QQing about how their site they "never made a link to" and "wrote all the content themselves" was destroyed by Penguin.

          Did they think that by being ineffective marketers - that they were buying some sort of immunity to the anti-logic of Googles updates?
          By creating "relationships" instead of links
          When they "syndicated" their own content rather than using automated effective link building
          The times they commented on a blog for a single link but kidded themselves they were "joining the discussion"
          When sending out emails by the thousand with an affilaite link that they thought their list would "benefit from the product"

          All this is kidology - It's the same - but sloooooooooooowwwwweeeerrrrrr.

          Effective linking isn't about "spam and can" automation - creating just 500 links a day spread across 8 sites and a commercially viable subset of say 50 out of half a million URL's..just works. And keeps working.

          Question:

          You know how Google can tell a link I created with automation setting up campaigns weeks in advance using prime content and great lists targeting viable niche specific website - one of the 500 a day I create (using said automation) - against a link created by hand where the creator beleives (or kids themselves) they are"adding value" or "joining in the discussion?"

          Answer:

          It can't. The manual way is just slower, and a lot less time effective

          Hell - I've had an automated posts I made picked up and syndicated by
          "blog dot bloomberg dot com" and searchengineland among others.

          Automated posts. Picked up, syndicated by PR7 and 8 authority sites. With embedded link back to my "original" been told they are thought provoking!

          Effective automation in 2013 is NOT about slam and spam. and it's working better than ever

          Scritty
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  • Profile picture of the author jinx1221
    Thanks Scritty, and you know, the funny thing is, they may have created lots of paranoia and fear, which is what they wanted, but that plan might actually backfire on them. Think about it.. thousands of SEO lunatics (like us) being happy, content with their 'guaranteed to work' method (pbn's), suddenly being uprooted and thrown into a massive frenzy, scrambling to learn more and more about other SEO tactics, and that drive to achieve what they once had, just might have created a bigger craze than they ever had before!
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    • Profile picture of the author Scritty
      Scritty! I signed up through one of your sites recently. Learning from your site alone is indispensable. The immense amount of information you provide has kept me going back almost daily. Okay I got off topic.

      Since BMR kicked the bucket are you still using any blog networks?
      I tend to now use networks that aren't "owned" networks. I.e services that find good places for your links that are ostensibly public domain and across many different platform footprints. I'm not going to advertise any here (and I personally have nothing to do with any of them) but if you PM me I will tell you the ones I use

      Thanks for the comment as well. Appreciated

      Think about it.. thousands of SEO lunatics (like us) being happy, content with their 'guaranteed to work' method (pbn's), suddenly being uprooted and thrown into a massive frenzy, scrambling to learn more and more about other SEO tactics, and that drive to achieve what they once had, just might have created a bigger craze than they ever had before!
      Great point - they doubt our tenacity (and the utter brilliance of many of those innovators in the SEO field that we learn from) - at their peril.

      An unflattering (for us) analogy might be the overuse of antibiotics causing ever stronger bacteria (I said it wasn't flattering) to arise.

      I have no wish to dilute the quality of the web. However, when I believe I offer something that is of value and I see it outranked by rubbish because...

      • The rubbish "has age" (and is therefore often anachronous and out of date)
      • The rubbish is on a "respected site" Often a site that has learned to "game" the system more effectively.... or worst of all....
      • Being outranked by own content - stolen, scraped,spun
      Then I will take action. I will innovate, I have no intention what-so-ever of failing.
      All of us here have the advantage of "quick feet". We can effect multiple changes to our entire SEO set up at very low cost and extremely quickly.

      Go with what works - but always with one eye on the rear view mirror. When you see something steamrollering fast behind you - take action, alter your course. Change your tactics, and live to battle on stronger and wiser

      Without romanticising the issue,, the basic approach just needs to be "Work hard - Adapt to change quickly - Prosper"
      That is a maxim for any business you care to name.
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  • Profile picture of the author mumeeb1
    Thanks you are sharing nice i like it.
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  • Profile picture of the author adrixe
    Thanks for sharing. really good read.
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  • Profile picture of the author seoace
    Definitely hit the nail there, Scritty.

    "Fear is the seed of defeat"
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