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Negative SEO DOES Exist - Google has confirmed it

by Andrew Davis
27 replies
  • SEO
    • |
One of the biggest concerns of the recent Google Penguin updates, is the Negative SERP (Search Engine Results Page) impact of "Bad Links" pointing to your website.

Over the past 7 months, Google has slowly begun to admit that Negative SEO DOES Exist.

Here is one of Google's Help Pages:

Can competitors harm ranking?
Can competitors harm ranking? - Webmaster Tools Help

Initially, it wrote:
There's nothing a competitor can do to harm your ranking or have your site removed from our index.
It was then updated late last year, to:
There's almost nothing a competitor can do to harm your ranking or have your site removed from our index.
Then on March 14th, 2012, they updated that statement to:
Google works hard to prevent other webmasters from being able to harm your ranking or have your site removed from our index.
This clearly shows (in my opinion) that Google admits that Negative SEO does affect Google's Search Results.

==============================

About a month ago, 2 members of "trafficplanet.com" conducted a "Negative SEO experiment".

You can read more about it here:
CASE STUDY: Negative SEO - Results - Main Backlinks/SEO Discussion - Traffic Planet

They targeted 2 popular and well ranked websites, using a massive Scrapebox blast (Millions of Spammy Links).

The results of the experiment showed that apparently, both of the target websites dropped in SERP rankings, due to the Negative SEO techniques employed against them.


Here, one of the "victims" of the test, complained about the "Unnatural Link Warnings" he received in Webmaster Tools:
https://productforums.google.com/for...at/Azfly-iRtLs

==============================

I do believe that Negative SEO exists on Google, and apparently, it's impact is being magnified with the recent "Google Penguin" updates.

In my opinion, it would be better for Google to discredit Links that appear to be "spammy", rather than penalize websites because of those unwanted Links.

This would help solve allot of problems, and prevent innocent victims from being attacked by malicious competitors or enemies.


If Google does not do something about this Negative SEO issue, then I believe that people won't sit silent for much longer.

The "Negative SEO Wars" will soon begin, and the web will be spammed with crappy links at every corner. Competitors attacking each other, trying to sink one another down the search rankings.


What is your take on this Negative SEO issue?
-Andrew
#confirmed #exist #google #negative #penguin #seo
  • Profile picture of the author CombatMode
    Too bad that google has resorted to this approach. Its dishonest but cannot be complained about. Afterall google doesn't force anybody to use it nor does it encourage people to rely upon it for bread and butter. Its nasty but never let google be a primary source of your income or traffic of your website.
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  • Profile picture of the author jakecoop79
    If google chooses to sit back, the seo world will turn into the wild west. Should be interesting.
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    • Profile picture of the author JSProjects
      Originally Posted by jakecoop79 View Post

      If google chooses to sit back, the seo world will turn into the wild west. Should be interesting.
      They haven't shown any interest in it yet.

      We'll see.
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  • Profile picture of the author fmac
    Man that's interesting and anybody that desperate is in a bad place if they have the time and initiative to do that. I know that competitors run up your ppc campaigns for sure though.
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  • Profile picture of the author dracoboar
    negative seo will become common place for deeper urls and off keywords, no real way to fully protect yourself from this
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  • Profile picture of the author Robert Michael
    The "Negative SEO Wars" will soon begin,
    Yep, and a lot of it will be a result of you posting this thread. Hope you're happy. lol just testing my invisi-text cuz im bored
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    • Profile picture of the author Andrew Davis
      Originally Posted by Whos That Guru View Post

      Yep, and a lot of it will be a result of you posting this thread. Hope you're happy.
      And do you think that it is smarter to let the general public and honest Webmasters remain unaware of this issue?

      So that the only side fighting (and winning) this "War" are the Black-hatters and Gurus, who are already very much aware of the effects of Negative SEO?


      I'd prefer make everyone aware of this, so then Google will be forced to stop using such non-sense methods.
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  • Profile picture of the author yukon
    Banned
    Still waiting for someone to tank an authority page in the SERPs, so far everyone declines.
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    • Profile picture of the author dracoboar
      Originally Posted by yukon View Post

      Still waiting for someone to tank an authority page in the SERPs, so far everyone declines.
      still waiting for someone to claim that you can tank a high authority site down.

      as per our other conversation there is a BIG difference between a solid page that makes someone money and a pr 4 wikipedia exact match page. Unless every single money page on every single website you own is pr 4 and the root domain is pr 9 there is no comparison.
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      • Profile picture of the author yukon
        Banned
        Originally Posted by dracoboar View Post

        still waiting for someone to claim that you can tank a high authority site down.

        as per our other conversation there is a BIG difference between a solid page that makes someone money and a pr 4 wikipedia exact match page. Unless every single money page on every single website you own is pr 4 and the root domain is pr 9 there is no comparison.
        Lol, not that dreaded PR again.

        I thought we already established that PR = Page Rank, not domain rank.

        If PR is going to be a problem for negative SEO, then basically the only thing anyone will ever tank in the SERPs is weak pages that are already hanging on to a SERP position by luck, or weak competition for that keyword. So really a weak page would never stand a chance in the SERPs, even If link blast didn't exist.
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        • Profile picture of the author dracoboar
          Originally Posted by yukon View Post

          Lol, not that dreaded PR again.

          I thought we already established that PR = Page Rank, not domain rank.

          If PR is going to be a problem for negative SEO, then basically the only thing anyone will ever tank in the SERPs is weak pages that are already hanging on to a SERP position by luck, or weak competition for that keyword. So really a weak page would never stand a chance in the SERPs, even If link blast didn't exist.

          Correct pr = page rank but if anyone is going to have some form of built-in algorythmic insulation against spam it may be high pr domains, these protections may not exist but if they do sites like wikipedia have them.

          Also you are forgetting all the authority of the internal link structure that may act as a counter to external spam.

          The best analogy here would be a solid page an a decent webste that is ranking for a term and someone de-ranking it.
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        • Profile picture of the author Black Hat Cat
          Banned
          It was then updated late last year, to:
          Quote:
          There's almost nothing a competitor can do to harm your ranking or have your site removed from our index.
          They didn't just start saying that last year. They've been saying that for several years now.

          As has been said before.....if negative seo isn't real, no one has to worry about the kind of links they build, because if a competitor can't hurt you with bad links, you can't hurt yourself with bad links. If you CAN hurt yourself with bad links, then negative seo is indeed real, because that means a competitor can hurt you as well. Google has no idea who built the links.

          The funny thing is most folks who teach seo have been accidentally implying the existence of negative seo for years. How many times have you heard an seo guru tell you not to engage in shady backlinking because Google will penalize you for it, and then tell you later on that a competitor can't hurt your rankings with bad backlinks, lol? Talk about a contradiction. So, either negative seo is real, or they didn't know what they were talking about.
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          • Profile picture of the author dracoboar
            Originally Posted by Black Hat Cat View Post

            They didn't just start saying that last year. They've been saying that for several years now.

            As has been said before.....if negative seo isn't real, no one has to worry about the kind of links they build, because if a competitor can't hurt you with bad links, you can't hurt yourself with bad links. If you CAN hurt yourself with bad links, then negative seo is indeed real, because that means a competitor can hurt you as well. Google has no idea who built the links.

            The funny thing is most folks who teach seo have been accidentally implying the existence of negative seo for years. How many times have you heard an seo guru tell you not to engage in shady backlinking because Google will penalize you for it, and then tell you later on that a competitor can't hurt your rankings with bad backlinks, lol? Talk about a contradiction. So, either negative seo is real, or they didn't know what they were talking about.
            This is certainly a legitimate arguement, however wouldnt it be a better solution to just ignore the links?

            Also the variable that has changed is anchor text overoptimization and possible a larger emphasis on your link profile which makes it MUCH easier to attack a site.
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      • Profile picture of the author paulgl
        Originally Posted by dracoboar View Post

        still waiting for someone to claim that you can tank a high authority site down.

        as per our other conversation there is a BIG difference between a solid page that makes someone money and a pr 4 wikipedia exact match page. Unless every single money page on every single website you own is pr 4 and the root domain is pr 9 there is no comparison.
        There is a comparison. Many wikipedia's pages are PR n/a, rank high.

        These threads at the WF rank high, PR n/a.

        I don't give as rat's behind about trafficplanet. Why spam a link?
        Certainly if they have some truth, we don't need to be spammed
        with their shtuff, do we?

        Google has never said negative SEO can't work. They have
        always said that if you concentrate on your site
        then then surely the good you do will outweigh the bad
        someone else does. And if it doesn't. You aint S#!$ in
        the first place. Your site was taken down by junk.

        You people think google is the police or something.

        They're not. They don't give a rat's behind about you
        or your site.

        Ever read that little ticket you get when parking your car?
        They are not responsible for your car getting broken
        in or stolen. You are.

        Ditto with google.

        Paul
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        If you were disappointed in your results today, lower your standards tomorrow.

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        • Profile picture of the author dracoboar
          I don't give as rat's behind about trafficplanet. Why spam a link?
          Certainly if they have some truth, we don't need to be spammed
          with their shtuff, do we?

          Ignoring an interesting little case study because it refutes your conclusions isnt exactly being open minded.


          Google has never said negative SEO can't work. They have
          always said that if you concentrate on your site
          then then surely the good you do will outweigh the bad
          someone else does. And if it doesn't. You aint S#!$ in
          the first place. Your site was taken down by junk.

          can you please show me where google says people "aint ****". Just because google says good will outweigh bad doesnt make it reality.

          You people think google is the police or something.

          ... as far as their own serp goes YES they are the police it is THEIR policy being discussed not the overall legality of the issue.

          They're not. They don't give a rat's behind about you
          or your site.

          I am glad you are finally willing to admit this for so long you have pretended google cares about something other than money.


          Ever read that little ticket you get when parking your car?
          They are not responsible for your car getting broken
          in or stolen. You are.

          Ditto with google.

          However if their policy is to come along and slash my tires because someone else broke my window then yes ditto for google
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        • Profile picture of the author Black Hat Cat
          Banned
          Originally Posted by paulgl View Post

          I don't give as rat's behind about trafficplanet. Why spam a link?
          Certainly if they have some truth, we don't need to be spammed
          with their shtuff, do we?

          Paul
          I don't get why he would link to it either. What does he think this is, the internet?

          If you find the time, maybe you could look up the meaning of the word "spam". I don't think it means what you think it does.
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  • Profile picture of the author Robert Michael
    Making people aware isn't gonna "force" google to do anything.

    Cmon now. You've been at this stuff for how many years? You should know this by now.. this is just adding fuel to the fire..

    Google doesn't care if a competitor slams the hell out of your site with spammy links.

    Just like they don't care if they run up the PPC costs for your keywords if you run Adwords.

    And just like they don't care if you're an honest adsense publisher pushing legit traffic and making legit earnings for years - they will still turn around and ban you without warning or reason in a heartbeat..

    All this thread is gonna do, is give shady people an idea to use shady tactics on competitor's sites - IF they haven't already thought/heard of this before.

    Its ok tho, I might as well throw a few Senuke X link pyramid gigs up on fiverr, since I'm sure they will be in demand after this goes mainstream.

    Might as well make something off it.. LOL

    Now THAT is what I call 'looking at the bright side of things' hahaha
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    • Profile picture of the author dracoboar
      Originally Posted by Whos That Guru View Post

      Making people aware isn't gonna "force" google to do anything.

      Cmon now. You've been at this stuff for how many years? You should know this by now.. this is just adding fuel to the fire..

      Google doesn't care if a competitor slams the hell out of your site with spammy links.

      Just like they don't care if they run up the PPC costs for your keywords if you run Adwords.

      And just like they don't care if you're an honest adsense publisher pushing legit traffic and making legit earnings for years - they will still turn around and ban you without warning or reason in a heartbeat..

      All this thread is gonna do, is give shady people an idea to use shady tactics on competitor's sites - IF they haven't already thought/heard of this before.

      Its ok tho, I might as well throw a few Senuke X link pyramid gigs up on fiverr, since I'm sure they will be in demand after this goes mainstream.

      Might as well make something of it.. LOL

      Now THAT is what I call 'looking at the bright side of things' hahaha

      And if you talk to your children about sex and drugs all it will do is ake them curios and more likely to use drugs and have random sexual encounters, clearly the best method is to stick your head in the sand.
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    • Profile picture of the author Andrew Davis
      Originally Posted by Whos That Guru View Post

      Making people aware isn't gonna "force" google to do anything.
      Are you so sure about that?

      Google changes it's algorithm based on the actions of Webmasters.
      If people begin disrupting the SERPs with Negative SEO methods, then of course Google is going to have to re-think things and change it's methods.


      Originally Posted by Whos That Guru View Post

      Cmon now. You've been at this stuff for how many years?
      How many years has "Google Penguin" been around for? :confused:

      The effects of Negative SEO methods have begun to surface allot more strongly over the past month or two. This is what this topic was about.
      I'm not talking about something that has been going on for "years".


      The fact that Google has reworded their statements over the past year, from:

      There’s nothing a competitor can do to harm your ranking or have your site removed from our index.

      To:

      Google works hard to prevent other webmasters from being able to harm your ranking or have your site removed from our index.

      Sends a very strong signal.

      You can play blind to it if you want.
      Everyone has their own opinions.
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  • Profile picture of the author Robert Michael
    jeez.. why is everyone so touchy?

    didn't say "penguin" has been around for years, i said YOU have been at this for years. meaning you should already know that regardless of what google CLAIMS to think of our opinion, they really don't care what we have to say...

    and to the guy above andrew - talking to kids about sex/drugs is nowhere near the same as this.. horrible metaphor.
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  • Profile picture of the author Andrew Davis
    Originally Posted by Whos That Guru

    didn't say "penguin" has been around for years, i said YOU have been at this for years. meaning you should already know that regardless of what google CLAIMS to think of our opinion, they really don't care what we have to say...
    Yes, I am aware that you didn't say that Penguin has been around for years.
    I understood exactly what you meant.

    What I am saying, is that Penguin is happening now.

    Google hasn't made such drastic Search Engine revamps before. (As far as I'm aware - I could be wrong)

    People are falling off the SERPs for no apparent reason, in an instant. It's not even a gradual decline in rankings.

    Companies grow, management and staff change. The ideologies Google may have had years ago could have evolved.
    We can only look at what is happening with Google now, and take action based on that.

    From what I know, Google does listen to feedback.

    I'm not trying to advocate a "Negative SEO war" here. But I believe that if enough of the "right people" confront Google about this issue, they would have to re-think things.

    The "Experiment" I shared in my original post, that for example, was done to bring this issue to Google's attention.

    -----

    Originally Posted by dracoboar

    and to the guy above andrew - talking to kids about sex/drugs is nowhere near the same as this.. horrible metaphor.
    He does make sense actually.
    Your posts on this topic seem to say that everyone should keep quiet on this issue, and pretend nothing is happening.

    Then when the guys over at those Black Hat Forums begin dumping the websites of legit Marketers... only then we will decide to start paying attention, when it is already too late?


    "It's better to educate your children about Sex and Drugs, before they learn the "Hard way" about the negative consequences" - this is what he was trying to say.
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  • Profile picture of the author Andrew Davis
    Originally Posted by paulgl

    I don't give as rat's behind about trafficplanet. Why spam a link?
    Certainly if they have some truth, we don't need to be spammed
    with their shtuff, do we?
    Paul was referring to me here?... lol
    I read what he said, but it didn't make sense to me.

    How am I "spamming" anyone here?
    I just came across information that seemed very interesting and useful, so I decided to share it here.

    Case Studies are usually more accurate than assumptions.

    Maybe it could shed some light on the Google Penguin issue that lots of people have been worried about recently.
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    • Profile picture of the author yukon
      Banned
      Originally Posted by Andrew Davis View Post

      Case Studies are usually more accurate than assumptions.
      Outside of SEO or IM I would totally agree with that comment.

      The problem is, a lot of people create BS case studies as negative publicity against something they are not selling/promoting. In other words, they are hyping up their own products like a late night infomercial on TV.

      Some of these guys are very clever in how they BS people into believing their bogus case studies. Basically If you see any sign of an alternative to what they say is bad, it's a load of BS to begin with.

      Example, If I said Ford trucks have a high crash rate, but Chevy trucks on the other hand just rolled out the safest truck that ever existed. That would be a load of BS. I would still probably get a few Chevy truck sales, which would have been the goal.

      Notice the trafficplanet link you posted in OP, the trafficplanet guy is spamming links.

      My point is, scan the case study pages for "Call to Action" links before you even read the page.
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  • Profile picture of the author kindsvater
    If "bad links" are at best ignored and at worst can drop a ranking, there is no penalty to bombarding a competitor with negative SEO.

    .
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  • Profile picture of the author AustralasianLadyBoy
    Does this mean I can now sink my competitors ladyboy parlours to the bottom?
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    Stay tuned for my new 5r gig: "me so horny, me love you long time 5 dollar..."

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  • Profile picture of the author Mosa
    haha, yea. Things are definitely crazy right now. But that's why you shouldn't put all your eggs in one basket. Right now we're ranking over 30 sites - so if one gets hit by negative SEO, we have lots more
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    Tired of people who blur stuff out and make ridiculous claims?
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  • Profile picture of the author mosthost
    It seems to me that SEO agencies would be the biggest participants of this type of activity. It's been going on for years, as anyone who has ever ranked real money terms would tell you.

    Google is just publicizing it now to discourage people from getting those 'deadly backlinks.'
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