Who here is fed up with SEO?

12 years ago

Originally Posted by asiancasanova

I don't know what the deal is with Google, but their updates have not improved the quality of results shown on the first pages. This is not what I have seen.

"Currently, the predominant business model for commercial search engines is advertising. The goals of the advertising business model do not always correspond to providing quality search to users."

Sergey Brin

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jakecoop79

12 years ago

Originally Posted by dmtaylor247

"Currently, the predominant business model for commercial search engines is advertising. The goals of the advertising business model do not always correspond to providing quality search to users."

Sergey Brin

That definitely seems to be true

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MikeFriedman

12 years ago

It seems that people's feelings about Google and SEO are directly related to their rankings. I have yet to see anyone with a bunch of #1 rankings complaining about Google, their updates, or low quality search results.

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jakecoop79

12 years ago

Originally Posted by MikeFriedman

It seems that people's feelings about Google and SEO are directly related to their rankings. I have yet to see anyone with a bunch of #1 rankings complaining about Google, their updates, or low quality search results.

I have lots of #1 rankings, but I'm also feeling free to complain about the low quality search results. The two aren't mutually exclusive.

I'm glad for my #1 rankings, but also believe that these updates aren't improving search results over all.

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nik0

Banned 12 years ago

Originally Posted by MikeFriedman

It seems that people's feelings about Google and SEO are directly related to their rankings. I have yet to see anyone with a bunch of #1 rankings complaining about Google, their updates, or low quality search results.

You could say that, but it doesnt take away the fact that I keep hearing it more and more that the sites that people do put their love in drop a lot harder then the more crappy sites that they don't really care about.

Ofcourse this could also be the result of building a less amount of "crappy" links to the sites that get less love. Which might be more true in most cases, but well hard to proof as an outsider.

I have to admit that the page 1 results look like total garbage these days. Who is really waiting for those Yahoo answers with mostly unreliable or non relevant answers. Not to mention sites like the huffington post, I mean if you want quality at page 1 then show the direct source instead of syndicated content.

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danb12

12 years ago

Well, Take some time to read about the updates, and you will see that this Google update is not all bad like all I keep hearing about.

If you do it right.. it is now so much easier to rank a website then it ever has been.

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PassiveIncomeTeacher

12 years ago

Every once in a while I get fed up with Seo, but I always come back to it. Like you, I have learned to diversify my traffic sources.

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wolfmmiii

12 years ago

My sites seem to be doing OK. Traffic seems largely consistent even through the latest algo changes. I'd prefer it to be easier and less worrisome but it's the game we are playing.

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cooler1

12 years ago

There is still lots of junk sites on page 1 in the SERPs, but its not as bad as it was over a month ago when Penguin first rolled out. Hopefully Google are moving towards eliminating the trash.

Im going to use PPC, ideally id like to get about 50% traffic via PPC and 50% via SEO so when there is a fury animal algo change, the affect isn't as drastic.

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toman

12 years ago

Seo is a game,do not build only one type of backlinks!

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retsek

12 years ago

I'm satisfied. The more of you leave SEO, the better for those who remain and are prepared to think and plan ahead of Google updates rather than reacting to them.

I feel Panda has done ok job of at least getting web publishers to clean up their sites and present their best face to the search engines. There were innocent victims though.

Penguin doesn't care about your content. You can have the best content in the world, but if you're spamming (or going overboard with anchor text) to get it initial exposure or fast rankings, then you'll likely get smacked down. I've yet to see a site that was hit by Penguin, that didn't deserve it. Just go browse the google product forums.

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cooler1

12 years ago

Originally Posted by retsek

Penguin doesn't care about your content. You can have the best content in the world, but if you're spamming (or going overboard with anchor text) to get it initial exposure or fast rankings, then you'll likely get smacked down. I've yet to see a site that was hit by Penguin, that didn't deserve it. Just go browse the google product forums.

Google changed the rules overnight though which is absurd. Before, a site could be promoted without a large variation of anchor text, now they suddenly hit sites hard that were using the targetted keyword frequently.

How is a site deserving of being hit if it was doing what was previously deemed as acceptable promotion of a site?

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retsek

12 years ago

Originally Posted by cooler1

Google changed the rules overnight though which is absurd. Before, a site could be promoted without a large variation of anchor text, now they suddenly hit sites hard that were using the targetted keyword frequently.

How is a site deserving of being hit if it was doing what was previously deemed as acceptable promotion of a site?

See that's where you're wrong.

It was never deemed acceptable. The fact that it works/worked doesn't make it acceptable.

No rules were "changed overnight". Enforcement of those rules might have changed, but the rules themselves have been pretty much set in stone for the last 10 years.

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Black Hat Cat

Banned 12 years ago

Originally Posted by retsek

I've yet to see a site that was hit by Penguin, that didn't deserve it.

Then you haven't looked very hard. Did viagra.com deserve it? Of course not, yet they were hit, and hit HARD, until Google went in and fixed it . Surely you're not naive enough to believe they were the only one.

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retsek

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Black Hat Cat

Then you haven't looked very hard. Did viagra.com deserve it? Of course not, yet they were hit, and hit HARD, until Google went in and fixed it . Surely you're not naive enough to believe they were the only one.

How do you know they were hit by Penguin ? Viagra.com was offline and experiencing server trouble before Penguin.

You need to try again.

Edit:

Proof: https://twitter.com/johnandrews/stat...04316393885697

Please, anybody, show me a website that was hit by penguin that didn't freaking deserve it.

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Mike Anthony 12 years ago

Originally Posted by Black Hat Cat

Then you haven't looked very hard. Did viagra.com deserve it? Of course not, yet they were hit, and hit HARD, until Google went in and fixed it .

You have no proof for that though. People have been running around with examples and then when the example sites settle back in (as they do often after an algo change) then they claim Google manually fixed it
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mosthost

12 years ago

SEO is still an important strategy, but it's only one. It's also a strategy that no one can count on because Google really loves changing things.

I think most people these days are taking a broader approach to traffic generation that includes PPC and social media. SEO alone can be a real heart breaker. Plus, search engines are not the only place people exist online. There's no use being obsessed.

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Mike Anthony

12 years ago

Oh please lets stop the foolishness.

LETS TALK THE TRUTH PEOPLE

- as marketers no one cared a flying fig about quality. Two years ago people in this forum (many who are crying now) bought exact match domains and put one or two pages MFAs of nonsense around their keywords, blasted it with ANgela backlinks, Xrummer, SEnukeX etc and gave each other high fives when they ranked top five. There were threads on all kinds of schemes and the people who posted how to do it were heralded as heros and the thanks piled high ( and the subsequent WSOs sold thousands)

Now people are running around talking about how quality has suffered and how much they care when they really didn't and don't. If I showed you a little trick that you could do and get any site regardless of quality at the top it would be a hit on this forum. Same people would eat it up and make my WSO thread 30 pages long. Almost no one would cry about low quality ranking and if they did they would be shouted down

There were ALWAYS bad sites ranking and no algo will ever be perfect but people have spent hours looking through serps now because at least some of their own sites tanked and more importantly for the first time they really have no clue how to game the system any longer.

So lets keep it real. By all means complain but lets skip the total farce that by and large marketers are hurt by Google's quality

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Pyramid Linkers

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

Oh please lets stop the foolishness.

LETS TALK THE TRUTH PEOPLE

- as marketers no one cared a flying fig about quality. Two years ago people in this forum (many who are crying now) bought exact match domains and put one or two pages MFAs of nonsense around their keywords, blasted it with ANgela backlinks, Xrummer, SEnukeX etc and gave each other high fives when they ranked top five. There were threads on all kinds of schemes and the people who posted how to do it were heralded as heros and the thanks piled high ( and the subsequent WSOs sold thousands)

Now people are running around talking about how quality has suffered and how much they care when they really didn't and don't. If I showed you a little trick that you could do and get any site regardless of quality at the top it would be a hit on this forum. Same people would eat it up and make my WSO thread 30 pages long. Almost no one would cry about low quality ranking and if they did they would be shouted down

There were ALWAYS bad sites ranking and no algo will ever be perfect but people have spent hours looking through serps now because at least some of their own sites tanked and more importantly for the first time they really have no clue how to game the system any longer.

So lets keep it real. By all means complain but lets skip the total farce that by and large marketers are hurt by Google's quality

Great post. People are frustrated because most people have a mind virus (especially aspiring internet marketers) that makes them want to chase shortcuts to success. When in reality, writing (or purchasing) good content and building quality links is a lot easier than everybody is making it.

And takes a lot less time than trying to find the next Fiverr Gig, auto approve comment list or forum profile list which are effectively link spam. That cycle will only increase your level of frustration when it doesn't work after a few months!

Write great content, do quality SEO and provide some value to someone other than yourself and you will find that succeeding is a lot easier than you are making it. If you don't know what quality SEO is, stop being cheap. Pay somebody to teach you or pay somebody to do it for you. You'll save yourself a lot of time and frustration in the long run.

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yukon Banned 12 years ago

Originally Posted by Pyramid Linkers

provide some value to someone other than yourself

BINGO!

That's exactly how you generate repeat traffic.

Anybody can rank a page in the SERPs, but what they need to ask themselves is "How the he$$ do I keep this new traffic coming back to my site?".
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nik0

Banned 12 years ago

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

LETS TALK THE TRUTH PEOPLE

- as marketers no one cared a flying fig about quality.)

Now people are running around talking about how quality has suffered and how much they care when they really didn't and don't.

So lets keep it real. By all means complain but lets skip the total farce that by and large marketers are hurt by Google's quality

Hahahaha, definetly post of the year, I love it, you are so true indeed and my last post kind of dwells by it, sometimes just need a reality check. As you've seen by the latest thread I personally don't give a f*ck about quality content with my new spin initiatives

But it's great to see the human nature of things, when it hurts them or us, then quality matters all of a sudden yeah

Either way I am well aware of what I produce in terms of content or risky link strategies for myself and you will never hear my crying about personal losses

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Paul Gram

12 years ago

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yukon

Banned 12 years ago

Originally Posted by Paul Gram

The big thing that Google has going for them is that regardless of what anyone says, the formula for ranking a site is totally unknown and usually a moving target.

You can do the exact same thing for two different sites and have one rank high and another on page 832 even though all the on and offpage factors are identical. There have been lots of tests done recently and this is the key for Google, there is no 1+1=2 in SEO anymore, now, 1+1 might equal 2 but it also might equal 3 or any other number.

Trust me, it's not that difficult to figure out the handful of things that will consistently rank pages in Google SERPs.

The guys at Google might be smart, but the list of things that will rank a page is very short, the rest is all fluff.

Example fluff:

amount of text on a page
keyword density
varying anchor-text per ranked page
pagerank of ranked page
above the fold Ads
bounce rate
how fast you build links

None of those things matter for SEO, content for traffic is a whole other game...

BTW, off-page SEO is only 1/2 the work it takes to rank a page. Anyone that doesn't believe that, well, keep chasing Google algo. updates while the rest of us rank pages.

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nik0

Banned 12 years ago

Originally Posted by yukon

Trust me, it's not that difficult to figure out the handful of things that will consistently rank pages in Google SERPs.

The guys at Google might be smart, but the list of things that will rank a page is very short, the rest is all fluff.

Example fluff:

amount of text on a page
keyword density
varying anchor-text per ranked page
pagerank of ranked page
above the fold Ads
bounce rate
how fast you build links

None of those things matter for SEO, content for traffic is a whole other game...

BTW, off-page SEO is only 1/2 the work it takes to rank a page. Anyone that doesn't believe that, well, keep chasing Google algo. updates while the rest of us rank pages.

I'd like too make a little comment on a few things Yukon although I agree with most of your list.

- amount of content, well I know you have sites with hardly any content but I've seen several cases of clients with only an image style thing at the homepage and like 5 words that were almost impossible to move, then I asked them to add content and within days they showed up at page one (that was 5 weeks after I builded the links).

- how fast you build links, doesnt really seem to matter indeed, but adding 100 PR3+ blogcomments in a week will definetly hurt a site (unless the site already has a lot of authority links ofcourse). again proven multiple times, I work on a LOT of sites so I observe a lot of things.

Now that you posted a list of things that does not matter I think it would help the community more if you posted a similiar list of things that DO work

Oh well probably we know that already but often to much effort, things that work:

- Relevant guestposts
- Relevant comments
- Relevant forumpostings
- Doc/pdf sharing submissions
- Video submissions - to some extent
- Software distribution with solid software
- Blog networks (although very risky obvious)
- High PR links from private networks (can be risky)
- Web2.0s (automated but customized ones work better imo)
- Local listings (especially for local business or you can fake an adress)

- Social signals (retweets, likes, google plus ones, bookmarks that get voted)
- Pressreleases, paid ones but also free ones work like PR-log, or paid ones like PRweb.com/sbwire etc.

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yukon

Banned 12 years ago

Originally Posted by nik0

I'd like too make a little comment on a few things Yukon although I agree with most of your list.

- amount of content, well I know you have sites with hardly any content but I've seen several cases of clients with only an image style thing at the homepage and like 5 words that were almost impossible to move, then I asked them to add content and within days they showed up at page one (that was 5 weeks after I builded the links).

- how fast you build links, doesnt really seem to matter indeed, but adding 100 PR3+ blogcomments in a week will definetly hurt a site (unless the site already has a lot of authority links ofcourse). again proven multiple times, I work on a LOT of sites so I observe a lot of things.

Now that you posted a list of things that does not matter I think it would help the community more if you posted a similiar list of things that DO work

Oh well probably we know that already but often to much effort, things that work:

- Relevant guestposts
- Relevant comments
- Relevant forumpostings
- Doc/pdf sharing submissions
- Video submissions - to some extent
- Software distribution with solid software
- Blog networks (although very risky obvious)
- High PR links from private networks (can be risky)
- Web2.0s (automated but customized ones work better imo)
- Local listings (especially for local business or you can fake an adress)

- Social signals (retweets, likes, google plus ones, bookmarks that get voted)
- Pressreleases, paid ones but also free ones work like PR-log, or paid ones like PRweb.com/sbwire etc.

If I had 100 PR3+ links I would defiantly spread those out over 10 internal pages. Then again I'm not going after the keyword car insurance.

Google reacts better to ranking multiple pages for the same keyword. I'm not trying to dis. what you do with SEO, just saying test ranking multiple pages per individual keyword, the more pages you rank per keyword, the easier it gets (I'm serious).

Besides, If your billing a client for ranking a single page per keyword, I imagine you can easily double/triple your income per paying client/individual keyword & all that with the same 100 PR3+ links, so no extra cost on external links.

Obviously everything related to SEO depends on individual keyword competition, no two competition/pages are every the same.

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nik0

Banned 12 years ago

Originally Posted by yukon

If I had 100 PR3+ links I would defiantly spread those out over 10 internal pages. Then again I'm not going after the keyword car insurance.

Google reacts better to ranking multiple pages for the same keyword. I'm not trying to dis. what you do with SEO, just saying test ranking multiple pages per individual keyword, the more pages you rank per keyword, the easier it gets (I'm serious).

Besides, If your billing a client for ranking a single page per keyword, I imagine you can easily double/triple your income per paying client/individual keyword & all that with the same 100 PR3+ links, so no extra cost on external links.

Obviously everything related to SEO depends on individual keyword competition, no two competition/pages are every the same.

I 100% agree that it works out better to rank many pages for the same keywords, actually I think when you build 100 links to 1 page for 1 keyword the overal effect is less then when you build 100 links spreaded over 3 pages targetting the exact same keyword.

Unfortunatly my services aren't really suitable for that, for example when I do doc submission we obvious use software and I can't divide it over 3 url's, if we had to we had to do it 3 times and the same counts for many other links as well so it would get quiet expensive, not to say that many of the client sites aren't suitable to do so, I get plenty of 1 page sites to work on, however when making customized plans I always try to implent it that way as much as possible. I spoke with someone who worked for a very large seo firm and he teached me this "trick".

Actually I should alter my services in such way that I have full control over each link that I build so that I can really get the most out of it, but it's hard (or in other words expensive) but I definetly want to go that way.

There is just one little but about this, my largest client says he has been penalized for this strategy, as Google might see it as spamming the search result pages with pages that don't have really much to offer, maybe it's cause of his site, not sure.

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yukon

Banned 12 years ago

Originally Posted by nik0

There is just one little but about this, my largest client says he has been penalized for this strategy, as Google might see it as spamming the search result pages with pages that don't have really much to offer, maybe it's cause of his site, not sure.

I can pretty much guarantee that they didn't get penalized for ranking multiple pages (per keyword). The page content on the other hand, I have no idea what they did.

The ranked pages have to be useful for traffic. Besides If the ranked page isn't worthy of traffic, not much point in ranking the page to begin with.

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nik0

Banned 12 years ago

Originally Posted by yukon

I can pretty much guarantee that they didn't get penalized for ranking multiple pages (per keyword). The page content on the other hand, I have no idea what they did.

The ranked pages have to be useful for traffic. Besides If the ranked page isn't worthy of traffic, not much point in ranking the page to begin with.

Well as long as the page delivers what the people are looking for, but yeah they could've also found it on the other listing. But hey more listings more money but Google obvious thinks differently about that, as in redundant (if that's the right word).

Content was spun btw

but the penalty was cause of the multiple listings, without that, and just 1 listing they have no problem with using spun.

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autolinks

12 years ago

Creating links in social network sites is becoming a big hit. It is rare for Google to consider your links in this site as spam especially that sharing of your link is seen as members' appreciation of your website.

For SEO purpose, I recommend trying to make your keywords blend inside your content. Although the same rule on keyword density applies, google don't like keywords that are forcefully placed inside the content. This is part of making your content more reader friendly.

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adam337

12 years ago

SEO is still important for me. I am doing SEO for my site and its going well.

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sovereignn

12 years ago

To me SEO is actually a game and I find it very fun.

Creating strategies can get EXTREMELY frustrating especially when one that works is just destroyed by google

But once you get that formula down passing other peoples ranks easily is a ton of fun

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traveltext

12 years ago

Originally Posted by sovereignn

To me SEO is actually a game and I find it very fun.

Creating strategies can get EXTREMELY frustrating especially when one that works is just destroyed by google

But once you get that formula down passing other peoples ranks easily is a ton of fun

Yes, when SEO is treated as a game it is fun. But when SEO is the basis of your income stream and you lose your SERPS as the result of algorithm tinkering by Google, then the game becomes more serious.

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sovereignn

12 years ago

Originally Posted by traveltext

Yes, when SEO is treated as a game it is fun. But when SEO is the basis of your income stream and you lose your SERPS as the result of algorithm tinkering by Google, then the game becomes more serious.

Don't put all your eggs in one basket!

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Vivers

12 years ago

It is a tiring and draining and tedious task to say the least. But for me there really is no alternative. You always need in my business a new flow of clients and they find my company now exclusively on the Internet.

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peter786110

12 years ago

It seems that individuals thoughts about Search engines and SEO are proportional to their positions. I have yet to see anyone with a lot of #1 positions protesting and complaining about Search engines, their up-dates, or low excellent google search.

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multivideo

12 years ago

I'm also feeling free to complain about the low quality search results.

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limestone614

12 years ago

I have seen massive increases since Penguin, simply huge.

See image:

My largest UK Client has been languishing in 11th for this simple 1 word search for 2 years. "Holidays"

It's definitely not all bad.

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seoservicesamerica

Banned 12 years ago

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retsek

12 years ago

Originally Posted by seoservicesamerica

A web consultant can provide a wide variety of services to businesses, from designing a web page to maintaining the activity that is generated by the site. While web consultants can serve in an on-site capacity with a company, they typically are brought in for special projects for a limited time. Consultants are sometimes kept on a retainer and used as advisers throughout the company's business cycle. Start-up businesses may employ a web consultant when they first open. The designer works with the owners to define the company's goals and find out what they want the website to do for the business.

Post of the year here, folks.

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nik0 Banned 12 years ago

Originally Posted by retsek

Post of the year here, folks.

I almost thought I ended up on Ezines or Wikipedia
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