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Why is SEO Needed?

by mosthost
53 replies
  • SEO
    • |
It seems the "SEO is dead" threads are getting heated, which makes sense. SEO isn't dead yet. People still engage in the practice of 'optimizing' content for search engine relevancy.

Still, SEO used to be needed a lot more in the past. SEOs were these clever people who understood what anchor text, site structure, and the mechanics of a properly optimized website were.

Now, these skills aren't as necessary. With platforms like Joomla and Wordpress, and really every other one out there, non-technical people are all able to have 'search engine friendly' websites. Why the need for 'SEO specialists' when so much SEO is already built in?

Why not just create the best content available and have faith in the search engines that they'll find it and rank it accordingly. I'd love to hear your thoughts.
#needed #seo
  • Profile picture of the author Wade32
    SEO isn't dead. The people that post those threads probably go to their site and over optimize their posts and pages! lol!

    As far as the need for SEO specialists, one can learn to do it themselves. With Joomla & Wordpress, as you mentioned, they make it easy for a newbie to get noticed by the search engines.

    Wordpress has some of the best plugins for SEO. You don't necessarily need an SEO expert unless you just need help backlinking. I use an SEO guy, but he is just doing things that I don't have time to do...it's not that I don't know how to do the SEO that he is doing, its just I have other things that keep me busy every day.

    SEO specialists are not needed to get to the first page of Google, but if one wanted to get there faster, I would say to get someone to help you.
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    • Profile picture of the author Nathan Lynch
      Have a question. Know all about Wordpress, but what is Joomia? Have not heard of that as of yet.
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      • Profile picture of the author yukon
        Banned
        Originally Posted by Nathan Lynch View Post

        Have a question. Know all about Wordpress, but what is Joomia? Have not heard of that as of yet.
        It's a CMS like Wordpress.

        Joomla!
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        • Profile picture of the author Nathan Lynch
          Thanks Yukon for that Joomia link. Is it as powerful as Wordpress?
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          • Profile picture of the author yukon
            Banned
            Originally Posted by Nathan Lynch View Post

            Thanks Yukon for that Joomia link. Is it as powerful as Wordpress?
            It will do whatever you tell it to do, just like all the other CMS's.

            Like I said above, they all output plain HTML in the end.
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          • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
            Originally Posted by Nathan Lynch View Post

            Thanks Yukon for that Joomia link. Is it as powerful as Wordpress?
            IN terms of SEO its like Yukon said. It will do what you set it up to do and in the end they all put out the same html. In terms of building different kinds of sites Joomla is more powerful especially if you want to put things where you want to put them.

            You'll get a better sense of what people do with it here

            Best of Joomla! The #1 joomla 2.5 and 3.0 templates, extensions, hosting and resources

            In terms of power I would line it up as -

            Wordpress then Joomla being more powerful then Drupal being even more powerful With those step ups comes more complexity and not as easy to grasp user interfaces. Drupal is HIGHLY configurable but that comes with things not working right out the box. You need a developers mindset. Joomla has some pretty easy to plug in and go SEO components. Unlike The wordpress community if you do have to buy something the GPL vibe with Joomla is you usually you buy it once and never again for any other sites because you are mainly paying for support.

            I think a lot of people underestimate a good site with nice layout and design with features. Frankly I think it s gotten to the point where people do a quick reverse on all these wordpress sites that have that "there will be no good content here" look. Sure you can rank but if your visitors bounce out immediately then in any business model you make no money.

            I know people point at Drudge and craigslist but those sites earned their wings long ago. The average imer doesn't have the unique content or concept to override having to look like you give a blast about your customers tastes.
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  • Profile picture of the author nik0
    Banned
    I suck at chess but I know exactly where this thread is going
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  • Profile picture of the author mosthost
    Thanks for your response. I agree that SEO is not dead I just read a post called "Marketing is dead" on the Harvard Business Review blog, so the "is dead" headlines are rampant everywhere on every subject.

    I agree you make a good point. You hire a specialist figuring they have more time and a vested interested in a certain line of work that you don't have. People will always hire SEO specialists when they think it will help their business and they don't have the time.

    But for the general public, it seems like once your SEO plugin has been added, the rest comes down to your promoting your content and your business. I question whether the average small business even needs SEO and how much they can benefit from it, especially if it costs them a lot of time and money to do it.
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    • Profile picture of the author Nathan Lynch
      It's amazing, but it seems that the most basic seo is still the most effective. Would you all not agree? Older websites that are established and the basic article builds the evergreen effect effortlessly. Has been working for years and still does a wonderful job of attracting traffic for as long as you want it to.
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  • Profile picture of the author yukon
    Banned
    SEO is defiantly not a strong feature of Wordpress (out of the box), doubtful about Joomla also. The reason is, most theme designers don't have a clue about SEO.

    As long as organic SERPs exist people need SEO If they want to target SERP traffic, everyone can't rank #1 in the SERPs.

    The CMS platform is irrelevant for SEO, the end product is all the same (HTML).
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    • Profile picture of the author nik0
      Banned
      Originally Posted by yukon View Post

      SEO is defiantly not a strong feature of Wordpress (out of the box), doubtful about Joomla also. They reason is, most theme designers don't have a clue about SEO.

      As long as organic SERPs exist people need SEO If they want to target SERP traffic, everyone can't rank #1 in the SERPs.

      The CMS platform is irrelevant for SEO, the ned product is all the same (HTML).
      I heard Magento is a good one for SEO, any thoughts on that?
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      • Profile picture of the author yukon
        Banned
        Originally Posted by nik0 View Post

        I heard Magento is a good one for SEO, any thoughts on that?
        Magento is just an eCommerce CMS & like any CMS it's what the webmaster makes out of it, they're not special, they're setup to help simplify creating pages & not always good SEO pages.

        No matter what anyone runs the end result that Google is looking at is always plain HTML code.

        Here's the problem with most CMS themes, they're made by web designers, most web designers don't have a clue about SEO. I'm not trying to be mean, just stating a fact, anyone doesn't believe me go look at the themes on premium theme sites & how bloated most of them are with javascript.

        Javascript is good for hiding content when it comes to SEO, but designers use it for cool effects & don't understand how it throws a wrench in the page optimization.

        When the average person buys a premium theme they're looking for pretty, cool crap that works against any of the 27 SEO plugins they're trying to run at the same time (lol).
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        • Profile picture of the author mosthost
          Originally Posted by yukon View Post

          Magento is just an eCommerce CMS & like any CMS it's what the webmaster makes out of it, they're not special, they're setup to help simplify creating pages & not always good SEO pages.

          No matter what anyone runs the end result that Google is looking at is always plain HTML code.

          Here's the problem with most CMS themes, they're made by web designers, most web designers don't have a clue about SEO. I'm not trying to be mean, just stating a fact, anyone doesn't believe me go look at the themes on premium theme sites & how bloated most of them are with javascript.

          Javascript is good for hiding content when it comes to SEO, but designers use it for cool effects & don't understand how it throws a wrench in the page optimization.

          When the average person buys a premium theme they're looking for pretty, cool crap that works against any of the 27 SEO plugins they're trying to run at the same time (lol).
          What choice do developers have? They have to build sites that people want. That means lots of J/S so the sites look good and function well.

          Still, this brings up a valid point. How many sites rank just because they're 'well SEO'd' and don't have good designs etc? A few years ago it was common, but now there's a lot more sites that aren't 'optimized' that rank.

          Even some of the biggest websites online don't have the best SEO and still do well.
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          • Profile picture of the author yukon
            Banned
            Originally Posted by mosthost View Post

            What choice do developers have? They have to build sites that people want. That means lots of J/S so the sites look good and function well.

            Still, this brings up a valid point. How many sites rank just because they're 'well SEO'd' and don't have good designs etc? A few years ago it was common, but now there's a lot more sites that aren't 'optimized' that rank.

            Even some of the biggest websites online don't have the best SEO and still do well.
            That's my point, the theme buyers want pretty, fun effects (javascript) & that's what designers give them, that's what sells.

            Now If most of the theme buyers said "I don't like javascript it sucks for SEO, it's slow loading, & annoying, instead I want clean looking pages that rock the SERPs so I can get more traffic", theme designers would learn SEO, but that's not going to happen because pretty & fun trump SEO & clean pages.

            The catch-22 for the theme buyers is, now that they have pretty & fun themes "Hey, now I need traffic (SEO)", lets go grab a plugin that everybody & his brother is running on 207,000 blogs, must work everyone else is running it (SEO plugin).

            The next step in the cycle is "What the he$$ did I do wrong, no pages are ranking, must be sandboxed (scratches head)?". :confused:
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        • Profile picture of the author nik0
          Banned
          Originally Posted by yukon View Post

          Magento is just an eCommerce CMS & like any CMS it's what the webmaster makes out of it, they're not special, they're setup to help simplify creating pages & not always good SEO pages.

          No matter what anyone runs the end result that Google is looking at is always plain HTML code.

          Here's the problem with most CMS themes, they're made by web designers, most web designers don't have a clue about SEO. I'm not trying to be mean, just stating a fact, anyone doesn't believe me go look at the themes on premium theme sites & how bloated most of them are with javascript.

          Javascript is good for hiding content when it comes to SEO, but designers use it for cool effects & don't understand how it throws a wrench in the page optimization.

          When the average person buys a premium theme they're looking for pretty, cool crap that works against any of the 27 SEO plugins they're trying to run at the same time (lol).
          A friend of mine hired an SEO company for $6k, from before the time I offered it, later on he is better of with them cause I started with public blog networks which would probably have gotten him penalized

          So that SEO company said to him that they had to redesign his website first and install Magento, before he runned OsCommerce but guess Magento is just easier to tweak for SEO then oscommerce.
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          • Profile picture of the author yukon
            Banned
            Originally Posted by nik0 View Post

            A friend of mine hired an SEO company for $6k, from before the time I offered it, later on he is better of with them cause I started with public blog networks which would probably have gotten him penalized

            So that SEO company said to him that they had to redesign his website first and install Magento, before he runned OsCommerce but guess Magento is just easier to tweak for SEO then oscommerce.
            Or, the SEO bought the theme with an aff. link then billed the client as If they designed the site from the ground up (I'm sure things like that happen).

            Like I was saying above, the CMS isn't important, it's the end result (HTML) that's important.

            Here's a random Magento Demo. theme (link below), the theme is running 28 separate javascript files on the Index page, then go back & look at the Index page & how simple it looks. Really? 28 .js files on that page (overkill).

            hxxp://24x7themes [dot] net/madame/index.php/
            No way would an SEO bloat a theme like that with .js when they know page loading time is important for SEO.
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            • Profile picture of the author mosthost
              Originally Posted by yukon View Post

              Or, the SEO bought the theme with an aff. link then billed the client as If they designed the site from the ground up (I'm sure things like that happen).

              Like I was saying above, the CMS isn't important, it's the end result (HTML) that's important.

              Here's a random Magento Demo. theme (link below), the theme is running 28 separate javascript files on the Index page, then go back & look at the Index page & how simple it looks. Really? 28 .js files on that page (overkill).



              No way would an SEO bloat a theme like that with .js when they know page loading time is important for SEO.
              No question Magento is a big money maker for people selling add-ons or additional services. What happens when the SEO removes all the J/S? Is the website as functional for visitors?

              After all, Magento ultimately is used to SELL people. Even with good rankings that involves lots of social value and a slick website. People running these types of stores need to prioritize the parts that are important to their business.
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              • Profile picture of the author yukon
                Banned
                Originally Posted by mosthost View Post

                No question Magento is a big money maker for people selling add-ons or additional services. What happens when the SEO removes all the J/S? Is the website as functional for visitors?

                After all, Magento ultimately is used to SELL people. Even with good rankings that involves lots of social value and a slick website. People running these types of stores need to prioritize the parts that are important to their business.
                The Magento example above could have easily used regular .jpg images instead of displaying the animated javascript images. Most people don't care about fancy web animations (RIP falling snowflake javascript from the late 90's).

                Here's an example of a site that earned $37+ million in 2007, the site is running a Yahoo store (talking about old school). My point here is, buyers don't care about fancy web design trends like webmasters think they do.
                • hxxp://www.inc [dot] com/inc5000/profile/bizchaircom
                • hxxp://www.bizchair [dot] com/

                Also, one trick to handle javascript is to load any javascript that's not important at the bottom of the page (source code). First step is to ask yourself, do I really need the javascript to begin with?

                Another example, I can load a single image on a web page in 3 different ways:
                • Simple .jpg
                • Javascript
                • Flash

                All 3 ways of loading the image would look exactly the same way to the traffic, Google would skip the javascript & Flash, unless the Flash was calling a remote URL for the image from an xml file, most people don't use that trick, instead they embed the image inside the Flash (SEO fail).

                Just saying, traffic wants to buy something & they didn't do a Google search for "Golf clubs on a site with cool javascript animations that are slow", instead they searched for "golf clubs" that's all they care about.

                BTW, I'm not in any way saying a site needs to look like crap.
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                • Profile picture of the author mosthost
                  Originally Posted by yukon View Post

                  The Magento example above could have easily used regular .jpg images instead of displaying the animated javascript images. Most people don't care about fancy web animations (RIP falling snowflake javascript from the late 90's).

                  Here's an example of a site that earned $37+ million in 2007, the site is running a Yahoo store (talking about old school). My point here is, buyers don't care about fancy web design trends like webmasters think they do.
                  • hxxp://www.inc [dot] com/inc5000/profile/bizchaircom
                  • hxxp://www.bizchair [dot] com/

                  Also, one trick to handle javascript is to load any javascript that's not important at the bottom of the page (source code). First step is to ask yourself, do I really need the javascript to begin with?

                  Another example, I can load a single image on a web page in 3 different ways:
                  • Simple .jpg
                  • Javascript
                  • Flash

                  All 3 ways of loading the image would look exactly the same way to the traffic, Google would skip the javascript & Flash, unless the Flash was calling a remote URL for the image from an xml file, most people don't use that trick, instead they embed the image inside the Flash (SEO fail).

                  Just saying, traffic wants to buy something & they didn't do a Google search for "Golf clubs on a site with cool javascript animations that are slow", instead they searched for "golf clubs" that's all they care about.
                  You've got a point Yukon Damn, you're reasonable!

                  So what do you think of the 'standard' SEO Wordpress plugins? Do you think they do a good job or cleaning up the code or not? I always run into lots of WP blogs when I search, so it would seem like it.
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    • Profile picture of the author Wade32
      Originally Posted by yukon View Post

      SEO is defiantly not a strong feature of Wordpress (out of the box)
      I disagree. There are plenty of Wordpress plugins that are dedicated to helping you manage different SEO features on your site than normal. One can use these plugins like Yoast or All in One SEO to get noticed by Google.

      Heck, I have used these to get on the first page of Google plenty of times!
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      • Profile picture of the author nik0
        Banned
        Originally Posted by Wade32 View Post

        I disagree. There are plenty of Wordpress plugins that are dedicated to helping you manage different SEO features on your site than normal. One can use these plugins like Yoast or All in One SEO to get noticed by Google.

        Heck, I have used these to get on the first page of Google plenty of times!
        Sorry to say but you have no clue what you are talking about. Onpage is so much more then stuffing your page with keywords, and that is exactly what plugins like Yoast and Platinum SEO are doing.
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      • Profile picture of the author yukon
        Banned
        Originally Posted by Wade32 View Post

        I disagree. There are plenty of Wordpress plugins that are dedicated to helping you manage different SEO features on your site than normal. One can use these plugins like Yoast or All in One SEO to get noticed by Google.

        Heck, I have used these to get on the first page of Google plenty of times!
        That's like when people run 3 different antivirus on their PC at the same time, things start going all to he$$ real quick.

        A lot of people that run WP get too dependent on plugins (easy buttons) & start adding anything & everything they can find.

        Bottom line is, If a person doesn't know how to SEO their own pages or refuses to hire help, they shouldn't expect much positive results in the SERPs. Everyone gets lucky with a keyword every now & then, but for the most part knowing SEO is a better solution than depending on web designers & plugin developers.

        Again, I'm not bashing designers or plugin developers, themes/plugins are made for the masses. Most people that download those plugins won't consistently rank pages that get decent traffic, I think we all know that (I do).
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    • Profile picture of the author mosthost
      Originally Posted by yukon View Post

      SEO is defiantly not a strong feature of Wordpress (out of the box), doubtful about Joomla also. They reason is, most theme designers don't have a clue about SEO.

      As long as organic SERPs exist people need SEO If they want to target SERP traffic, everyone can't rank #1 in the SERPs.

      The CMS platform is irrelevant for SEO, the end product is all the same (HTML).
      No question, but almost all of the platforms have been building in SEO for awhile now (or have extensive plugin support). It's almost like SEO (and its benefits) became the worst secret in the world and everyone got involved. After so many people have piled on, it seems like the advantages to 'proper optmization techniques' would die off.

      Of course I'm sure there might still be some industries that are way behind the times and still need a lot of SEO help, but almost everyone you talk to that has a website has heard of the basics.
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  • Profile picture of the author WinmanRoss
    Banned
    Of course, SEO is not. But SEO is not the most important factor in rankings. You know now that "content is KING", so you should focus on this also.
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  • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
    ROFL

    OP tried to make the same kind of arguments in another thread and his points were dismantled which is why he has started another thread to try again.

    In this thread lets prove the point instead of arguing it. I'll do that by asking one question and then a quick SEO review . Question first

    OP you are clearly in multiple places trying to promote your web hosting company Mosthost. SO why is that your hosting site doesn't rank for anything it is targeting in its title even though you know about Wordpress and Joomla? . IF CMS could do what you claim and make SEO or SEO specialists obsolete then I would not have to point out the glaring errors on your home page and in the strategy your are attempting rank with

    A) Your keyword target in your title is not included in your content.:confused:
    B) the name of your site is put first in your title pushing back your keywords which "SEO specialists" know potentially cuts off your keywords from being read by Google in entirety
    C) your large logo and picture at the top of your page pushes down all your content below the fold thereby potentially burying the content that would cause your site to rank. Big no no after Google announced change to the algo that were meant to target overly commercial pages but it always was a bad practice. Big pictures and logos are unnecessary on almost every level.
    D) your headers are a wreck. none of them target anything you are trying to rank or that has anything to do with your business
    E) You use images as navigation links and headers and your alt tags are empty

    and drumroll

    F) your link profile is REALLY bad. It includes profile links, deleted .info domains, forum sigs etc . You dabbled in some weak stuff. looks like a bad blog network or two and got burned or just lost out so thats why you think SEO is dead because obviously none of that stuff worked for you but they didn;t for anyone for years much less a small business.

    SO would a SEO help with a small business? I've just proven it by showing you exactly where YOU need the help of a SEO. Thats just a quick review of the most glaring errors without crawling and running reports. I could probably triple the list of problems if I took the time to do that. NO plugin will catch all those errors and none will do auto correction worth a lick of even one problem. You are day dreaming.

    So ahem....when I am not booked I charge minimum $299/ month. You owe me one month and yes I accept Paypal. LOL

    On the bright side -

    The one good strategy that you do have is that you are using a kind of network of sites you own to boost up your tumblr site but anyway you put it or spin it you are not relying on Google just magically finding your content so your claims are kinda hypocritical. I'll say "kinda" until I receive my $299.

    Got to get back to work. My analysis tools are finished running and got to look over my apparently obsolete data.
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    • Profile picture of the author Mantasmo
      Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

      ROFL
      ROFL indeed.

      WTF Mike's post made me laugh. That's like woah, I don't even...
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    • Profile picture of the author mosthost
      Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

      The one good strategy that you do have is that you are using a kind of network of sites you own to boost up your tumblr site but anyway you put it or spin it you are not relying on Google just magically finding your content so your claims are kinda hypocritical. I'll say "kinda" until I receive my $299.
      Okay, let's do some business.

      I'm not convinced of your SEO prowess. Before I pay you $3600 a year, I'll need to read some testimonials from satisfied clients.

      BTW, do you have a website I can visit to learn more about your SEO business? Or do you merely pick up business from a forum using a pseudonym?

      You've got a lot of guts when it comes to making anonymous attacks. I'd like to see where you stand in the 'real world.' So get back to me with those references.
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  • Profile picture of the author mosthost
    What a completely off-topic and obnoxious post, Mike.

    I haven't spend too seconds 'promoting my business' at this website. You, on the other hand, spend all day here pushing your 'service'.

    You didn't tell me why I needed SEO with your rant.
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    • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
      Originally Posted by mosthost View Post

      What a completely off-topic and obnoxious post, Mike.

      I haven't spend too seconds 'promoting my business' at this website.

      So what?? your name is Mosthost ????

      This board is becoming more hilarious by the minute. How can someone choosing to use the brand name of their company in a forum be claiming that they are not promoting it in the process? and even with a sig leading to websites promoting it?

      Utterly ridiculous (incidentally since you haven't noticed I have no sig at the moment). and off topic?

      ROFL-WMSH. (with my sides hurting). You cannot be serious. That entire post was right on the topic


      You didn't tell me why I needed SEO with your rant.
      Umm ...read your OP and subsequent posts. You have been claiming that the SEO built into Joomla and Wordpress makes SEO specialists and doing further SEO redundant.

      You are just upset that I conclusively proved by using your own site that you are wrong and please spare us all the nonsense of claiming that you wouldn't want to be ranked number one when the term web hosting is entered into Google.

      Obnoxious is running all over a SEO board telling people in multiple posts over and over again with no substance to it that SEO is unnecessary? IF so then move on to a cooking forum. here

      Rachael Ray

      anyone will read more of this latest episode of the twilight Zone later.
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      • Profile picture of the author mosthost
        Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

        So what?? your name is Moshost ????

        This board is becoming more hilarious by the minute. How can someone choosing to use the brand name of their company in a forum be claiming that they are not promoting it in the process? and off topic?

        ROFL-WMSH. (with my sides hurting). You cannot be serious. That entire post was right on the topic
        Ummm, maybe you better look up the definition of promoting. How in God's name am I promoting a business that I haven't even mentioned?

        You're pretty much trolling me in this thread for no reason. I'm not looking for new clients on Warrior Forum, you can take that to the bank.

        You really need to lighten up when you communicate with people. You're way too obnoxious with your posts, and much too personal. There was no need to attack me like you did.

        BTW, I removed my signature and I'll see what I can do about having my handle changed. Hopefully that will satisfy your desire that I'm not doing 'promotions' on WF. LOL
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  • Profile picture of the author Trevor
    SEO is not dead and will not be.

    SEO knowledge does not equal HTML/coding knowledge. It's still very important to know how to optimize your content on-page-wise and how to build your backlinks efficiently.
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  • Profile picture of the author prismkuet
    SEO is not dead. And, it will not be.
    Why not just create the best content available and have faith in the search engines that they'll find it and rank it accordingly. I'd love to hear your thoughts.
    Quality content is important. But what will happen when hundreds of quality content will be developed by hundreds of site? Google need to bring some one in the first place in it's search result. What will be the factor to bring the result in no. 1? Obviously that is SEO.
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  • Profile picture of the author mosthost
    Keep in mind: nobody said SEO was dead I asked "Why is SEO Needed?" I didn't proclaim its death.

    My premise was simple: people who make really great content can promote it through various means (networking, social media, email lists) and the like. They can bypass doing hardcore SEO and still manage rankings. So why would people who are good content creators focus on SEO when they could spend the time building up relationships with people that will help them.

    That's all I said. I didn't attack "SEO" or "SEOs."

    Lots of butt-hurt people in this forum from what I can tell. I guess being sodomized by Penguins and Pandas has that effect on people LOL
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    • Profile picture of the author nik0
      Banned
      Originally Posted by mosthost View Post

      My premise was simple: people who make really great content can promote it through various means (networking, social media, email lists) and the like. They can bypass doing hardcore SEO and still manage rankings. So why would people who are good content creators focus on SEO when they could spend the time building up relationships with people that will help them.
      That's why I made my chess comment, it's getting old man.

      Once again no one is freaking using networking / social media / email lists to buy a product or hire a service. At least not in the real world where we talk about real services like airco installers, loan suppliers or real products like a tree cutter, vacuum cleaner, hair dryer or whatever.
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      • Profile picture of the author mosthost
        Originally Posted by nik0 View Post

        That's why I made my chess comment, it's getting old man.

        Once again no one is freaking using networking / social media / email lists to buy a product or hire a service. At least not in the real world where we talk about real services like airco installers, loan suppliers or real products like a tree cutter, vacuum cleaner, hair dryer or whatever.
        Sure they are. You're the one that needs to get out in the 'real world' more often then.

        Of course you can't just come at people with "loan supplies" using social media. You have to be a bit more slick than that. Vacuum cleaners, since you mention them are a perfect topic for social media, if done right.
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        • Profile picture of the author MikeFriedman
          Can you market products without SEO? Absolutely. Can you be successful doing it? Absolutely.

          The fact is though that people are searching for products and services in search engines. The Google Keyword Tool data tells us that.

          So why ignore those potential sales and clients? If you are not ranked #1, one of your competitors sure is.

          If someone chooses to do their business without utilizing search traffic and it work for them, so be it.

          The truth is, unless you are paying some outrageous fee for SEO, it is actually far cheaper than most other forms of advertising. Before working online, I ran a franchise for a company in Maryland just outside of D.C. This is going back over 10 years ago, but it cost over $1000/week for a little freaking ad in the Washington Post to run Sunday thru Thursday.

          The advantage of SEO is you can get targeted traffic of people that you know are looking for your business versus placing an ad somewhere and hoping someone who might be interested hears or sees the ad at a much greater expense.
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  • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
    Mosthost

    There was no personal attack in this thread until your post about me being "obnoxious". You are making that up because you hated the way I showed your site was in need of a good SEO in contradiction to your beliefs. I did take apart your claims but thats not a personal attack. Frankly Mosthost I have been in multiple threads where you go off on people who have sigs like having one that doesn't go straight to your main site but does promote your main site is better. Its silly. Its a marketing board and you chose to use your brand name for the obvious reason of promoting it. NO harm no foul. If you don't like people marketing then perhaps you shouldn't hang out on marketing forums. Ya think?

    Originally Posted by mosthost View Post

    Okay, let's do some business.

    I'm not convinced of your SEO prowess. Before I pay you $3600 a year, I'll need to read some testimonials from satisfied clients.
    You misread. I stated my MINIMUM was $299. When you add in the various factors it goes higher. Theres the annoyance factor as well so you would have to add a zero for me to even consider you and another zero to make it certain. I'm just amused you actually think I was considering you as a client and so you can demand to see references. I would if I was considering but neither of us are.

    No SEO professional would consider you based on your views.

    Originally Posted by mosthost View Post

    My premise was simple: people who make really great content can promote it through various means (networking, social media, email lists) and the like.
    What you said is clear and quoted by several people. You clearly indicated that Content management systems existing with SEO features make further SEO unnecessary and in you own words Google will find you

    Why the need for 'SEO specialists' when so much SEO is already built in?

    Why not just create the best content available and have faith in the search engines that they'll find it and rank it accordingly.
    What happened to the site you promote in your username? You've yet to address that. With all the errors it clearly is not being SEOed properly and the real proof of that is that it is not ranking for what it is optimized for in the title.

    The whole build it and they will come has been disproven in every kind of business on and offline just has now your idea that plugins somehow make further SEO obsolete. Neither of them has much merit. Promotion will always go along with content and last time I looked Google was still one of the number one places you can drive traffic and get that promotion.
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  • Profile picture of the author mosthost
    My strategy doesn't involve SEO. Duh.

    My business existed long before search engines were popular and will exists long after they go the way of 'Ol Bessie.'

    In fact, my website had NOTHING to do with this thread at all.

    As I figured, there are no references. You aren't looking for new clients (Sure, LOL). You continue to hide your identity and attack someone's business for no reason.

    Let's face it. You haven't contributed anything to this thread other than an attack on a website that wasn't being mentioned at all.

    I'm tired of your bullying. (I'm sure I can't be the only one.) Stick to the topic at hand and quit "Umming and LOL'ing" everything with your dismissive attitude.
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    • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
      Originally Posted by mosthost View Post

      My strategy doesn't involve SEO. Duh.

      My business existed long before search engines were popular and will exists long after they go the way of 'Ol Bessie.'

      In fact, my website had NOTHING to do with this thread at all.
      Most coming down off all the heated words it DID have lots to do with it. NO matter what you claim I am looking at backlinks that showed you tried to promote it with SEO and not that long ago either. They are there. they cannot be denied. Now if you say small businesses don't need to bother with SEO and your own small business site trying to rank is in need of SEO it completely proves the point no matter what you say. That wasn't me trying to drag your site into it to smear you it was to show you how inconsistent your point is. Your own site needs SEO help and here you are in this thread claiming that nowadays the secrets of SEO are all in the plugins so we need nothing more.

      SO yes lets stick to the point. I've made the case that the SEO provided in CMSes is just a start and not the end all of SEO . to be honest SEO features within CMs just cover the very very basics and not even all of them.

      Say what you want about me bullying. This last week I've gotten into it with two people and go figure they were both the SEO is dead or you don't need SEO types.

      Take a poll of the people who contribute here and go ask them how tired they are of that junk too. Its non stop now every single week three or more threads on the same thing like you all have to try and convince us against the facts that everyone should bail out and yet the name on this subforum is very clearly "Adsense / PPC / SEO Discussion Forum"

      We get it. You think that social is the thing and the whole world should go there and only there . We've heard it all before and think otherwise. So just how many threads do we have to have on the same thing? and how many times do we have to say no and you realize we mean it without starting yet another thread to make the same points?

      Incidentally my name is Mike its not a brand name like Mosthost so the repeated claim I am hiding is bizarre to say the least. I presently have no sig yes but the very same poster an others have actually launched attacks on the basis of my sig so apparently if I have a sig I am evil and if not then I am hiding

      Yep that s why I have to continue to ........lol
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      • Profile picture of the author mosthost
        Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

        Say what you want about me bullying. This last week I've gotten into it with two people and go figure they were both the SEO is dead or you don't need SEO types.
        I'm not any 'type' of person. I'm just a fellow Warrior Forum member that is interested in discussion. My opinions have no bearing on whether people choose SEO or not. I just opened up a discussion that I thought was interesting. I'm pretty sure this one of the only threads I've started in months. I'm not beating the issue to death and I won't mention it again. You're right: SEOs are great. Everybody loves SEO. WOO HOO. SEO for the win!

        Simple as that. If I'd been looking for SEO tips then your post would have been appropriate.

        In any event, I'm not going to argue with you anymore. YOU WIN. I GIVE UP.
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      • Profile picture of the author wforumar
        My take is that the search engines are here to stay and there will not come a day where they become obsolete (at least not in my life time). Thus I believe that SEO is needed, for as long as these search engines are useful at least!
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        • Profile picture of the author mosthost
          Originally Posted by wforumar View Post

          My take is that the search engines are here to stay and there will not come a day where they become obsolete (at least not in my life time). Thus I believe that SEO is needed, for as long as these search engines are useful at least!
          You have a point. But are search engines still the most trusted source of information online?

          Don't you think people would prefer to have a lot of their information referred to them by friends? Look at the rise of sites like Pinterest. People are engaging with content all over the place.

          I read a study recently (take it with a grain of salt) but it said something like 91% of people don't trust info online. Of course this report was also online, so maybe it's not trustworthy. But given that, you can see why trying to make yourself a trusted source of products/services/content will eventually end up being as important or more important than search engine dominance.

          These are my thoughts, any way.
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          • Profile picture of the author MikeFriedman
            Originally Posted by mosthost View Post

            I read a study recently (take it with a grain of salt) but it said something like 91% of people don't trust info online. Of course this report was also online, so maybe it's not trustworthy. But given that, you can see why trying to make yourself a trusted source of products/services/content will eventually end up being as important or more important than search engine dominance.

            These are my thoughts, any way.
            There was another study not too long ago that found somewhere over 75% of people believed that if a business was ranked in the top 3 of the search results that it was an authority in that line of business.

            What does that say about the businesses not ranked at the top?
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            • Profile picture of the author mosthost
              Originally Posted by MikeFriedman View Post

              There was another study not too long ago that found somewhere over 75% of people believed that if a business was ranked in the top 3 of the search results that it was an authority in that line of business.

              What does that say about the businesses not ranked at the top?
              A few years ago I would have agreed with that totally. But now with the prevalence of paid results I'm not as confident.

              I mean a lot of Google searches that display paid ads are really, really bad. Of course some people might still think of you as authoritative for ranking in Google through paid or organic, but it's still going to come down to the basics like who has the best service for the best price. Plus I imagine people these days are also going to read reviews etc.

              So I think SEO couldn't hurt, but when you get in a battle to rank for "yourtown personal injury lawyer" and it ends up costing you tons of money, you have to decide if it's worth it.

              Depending on the sector you're in, you might be amazed at the level of fraud orders that come in from Google.
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  • Profile picture of the author jazbo
    I'm sure it's not what he intends, but when I see "Mike Anthony" posting, I pull up a chair and get some popcorn out. I love his hand grenade posts. I've been away too long.
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    • Profile picture of the author mosthost
      Originally Posted by jazbo View Post

      I'm sure it's not what he intends, but when I see "Mike Anthony" posting, I pull up a chair and get some popcorn out. I love his hand grenade posts. I've been away too long.
      The whole world loves a troll, they say
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  • Profile picture of the author Mantasmo
    ^^Most of the time it's premium WP themes that mess up the code really bad.

    Standard WP SEO plugins don't really do anything to address internal linking or (most) other on-page SEO issues.
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  • Profile picture of the author denysapu
    Why not just create the best content available and have faith in the search engines that they'll find it and rank it accordingly.
    Like Google might be expected.
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    Don't worry be happy!

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    • Profile picture of the author yukon
      Banned
      Originally Posted by denysapu View Post

      LMAO,

      Here's the spammy site Matt was refferring to in that link you posted.

      hxxp://profitmonarchs [dot] com/get-fit-using-these-simple-and-easy-methods/



      Someone did a redirect fail here:

      hxxp://newsalloy [dot] com/redirect?url=hxxp%3A%2F%2Fprofitmonarchs [dot] com%2Fget-fit-using-these-simple-and-easy-methods%2F
      Link still indexed in the SERPs here.

      Replace hxxp & [dot].
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  • Profile picture of the author smodha
    SEO totally depends on keyword competition. For example if I want to rank for "The Warrior Forum is a totally cool place where angels and trolls meet" I don't need SEO because realistically how many websites will target this keyword? The answer is zero because a) I just made it up and b) why would a normal human being type that into Google?

    SEO is all about relevancy. Plain and simples...
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    I Sell What People Want. The Money Is A Bonus..
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  • Profile picture of the author KamauAustin
    Un freaking Real. You can't just use a CMS and think you're gonna rank well against experienced SEOs. That's a joke! I can't believe what I'm reading. I thought warriors are elite IMs.

    A person has to do SEO research, figure out the Keywords which will convert, SEO copy which get a response, and that's not off the page factors which is a whole different animal. No freakin CMS can do that for you. Unreal. SMH
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    Kamau Austin, helps emerging businesses vibe, survive, and thrive online. He is a Dadpreneur and Publisher of: eINFoNews . Austin is also a author of Raise Cash Fast and a SEO and Social Media Professional. Contact him at: Search Engine Plan

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    • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
      [DELETED]
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      • Profile picture of the author yukon
        Banned
        Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

        Unfortunately believe it. The board is at a pretty low state now with spammers, people just posting for links and then people who don't know the first thing about SEO making totally off the wall statements.
        Sometimes it feels like I'm at a magic show & I'm the only one in the audience that knows the act is an illusion.


        [j/k]
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  • Profile picture of the author Arav
    After a certain threshold, SEO is needed. Apart from optimizing content, site structure some basic method will put you a step forward.
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    Actual High PR(3-6), Do-follow,Low OBL,Unique Domain,SPAM Free, Anchor Text allowed, Mostly Auto Approved Blog List Package (30 Links including AA .edu) for Sale. Only 10 Packages. PM me for details.

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