Newbies Hit By EMD Update

by IM Ash
12 replies
  • SEO
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I remember when I got into IM at the beginning of last year and built my first site (I was reading alot b4 that). I invested a great deal of love and passion into that site! I learnt all the fundamentals and implemented all I learnt and my site began to take shape... and to grow into something I was really proud of. It was something I created and it gave me a great deal of satisfaction to admire my creation! But then Panda came along and I lost a great deal of income from that site... I was devastated and I was really sad and depressed for a good few weeks before getting back to try and pick up the pieces.

But I did pick up the pieces and I got my site ranking again which was a real victory for me. I also began building more sites to diversify my income at that time, but then came the mass blog network deindexing and my most prized site was hit again (my first site). Luckily the other sites I built carried me during that time but again, I was heartbroken and I did not even want to visit the site that was hit because it embittered me even more that all the work had come to nothing.

Then Penguin came and completely wiped out my first site (I was still ranking for a few KWs) and it took out a few of my newer sites!

Now again, one of my sites was hit with the EMD update but the site was not even on an EMD...lol! I am actually not feeling too bad today because I have been through it before, but I know you are hurting... I am sorry you have to go through this, BUT

I have to highlight that this is the life of an SEOer. No one can predict what Google is going to do next... we all can try and follow best practice but that does not guarantee your site's ranking tomorrow. People can sell you SEO strategies but no strategy is full-proof because no one will ever know what is around the corner. No SEOer has had the priviledge of dissecting Google's algo and none of us sit in the boardrooms at the Google plex so no one can ever give you a full-proof SEO strategy that will gurantee your rankings.

SEOers can gloat about how well their sites and their client's sites are doing but none of them can tell you the 200+ ranking factors that Google uses to rank a site and none of them can tell you why one EMD was hit and another wasn't. We can have theories based on what others say but they will always be just a theory. We can follow best practice based on what has worked in the past but that does not guarantee anything for the future.

Do you see how crazy SEO actually is? Do you see that this addiction to free traffic goes against all sanity? But guess what: I LOVE THIS GAME!

You see to be in SEO you have to have a thick skin and you have to be able to roll with the punches. Google can stick a screwdriver soemwhere and your site can tank and you have to be willing to accept this fact to be an SEOer. When you get hit you need to pick yourself up and try again!

Many SEOers apply their trade to make money for themselves and we know that SEO is risky business and we are playing a game that changes at every corner regardless of what strategy is been utilized. With an algo you will have false-positives which means even good sites tank!

My reason for starting this thread is not to scare you away from SEO but rather to reveal the unfeigned truth about SEO. If you want to play this game then strap your self in and prepare yourself for an emotional rollercoaster ride!

Ask yourself whether this journey is what you want to pursue and if it is really worth it? Do you have responsibilites like taking care of a family and putting food on the table? If so, then SEO should not form the foundation of your traffic generation approaches - it is too unpredictable! If you love IM but you know the SEO road is a bit too risky for you then my advise is to leave this sub-forum and go to the main forum and start reading the threads there - you will learna great deal about alternative methods to generate traffic and how to build a long-term sustainable business that does not revolve around russian roulette.

The truth is that when the responsiblities of a crazy SEOer like myself begin to increase then mindsets change and that is when people begin offering SEO services, products, consulting services etc. Why? Because every SEOer knows deep down that this game does not guarantee your rent will be paid, kids will be fed and clothed and the wife gets to be lavished and romanced.

Think hard before you build your next site and always develop a contingency plan that will allow you to pay the bills. Diversify your traffic sources and do not make search engine traffic the base of your business. If you have a skill or special knowledge think about offering a service or creating a product but if you just like living on the edge then go ahead and play the game
#hit #newbie #read
  • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
    Bleh ...I know this was meant to be all touchy feely and I feel your pain empathy but there is just too much hogwash in there for me to bathe in. People don't have to know all 200 whatever ranking factors to know what Google wants. Yes you have to have diversify but SEO can be very stable.

    We can all point to sites that were in our eyes okay but its just denial not to admit that most of the time people here get slapped its because they were looking for shortcuts around real work and real investment.

    EMD , wordpress and some $4 articles is part of the culture that leads to most of these slaps. then it was software blasting tools or a few dollars to some service everybody was using or even fiverr gigs as a supposed business model

    Can and do good sites get slapped ? Yes but sorry I am one of the guys people PM and say Yo Mike here is my site what do you think? how can I rank it? and honestly 9 out 10 times the site is not very good. Its usually a standard wordpress site with some content that no one would find interesting , engaging and half the time even readable. Its written just to get some keywords in.

    why is it that update after update its the people here who argue for quality that report being untouched. You guys don't get it. 90% of the time they ARE doing something you are not and their business model is stable because they get repeat traffic from their rankings even if they later fall.

    So the whole idea that SEO is this great big crap shoot and no one knows how to do it just because you keep getting slapped is just false. if a good site ranks for even four months and gets caught in the crossfire and drops its income does not go to zero because just like Wf on a smaller scale it will get return traffic

    A business that flops the minute it cant run an advertisement is a business made in mud that has no repeat traffic and has built no customer base. The problem is you have a wrong view of search engines. They should be nothing more than opportunities to advertise your business but in truth you have made them your business because there is nothing at your site that really qualifies as a business without them
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    • Profile picture of the author justmerob
      Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

      why is it that update after update its the people here who argue for quality that report being untouched

      A business that flops the minute it cant run an advertisement is a business made in mud that has no repeat traffic and has built no customer base. The problem is you have a wrong view of search engines. They should be nothing more than opportunities to advertise your business but in truth you have made them your business because there is nothing at your site that really qualifies as a business without them
      No offense to the OP because I feel your pain! On the other hand, Mike has a VERY good point here. I've just came out of the bushes recently but have lurked for some time and I have seen this trend. Those that preach "original content" and many other tips are the one's that stand tall during these times. I for one will be following this model

      On the 2nd part of that statement tho, touché Mike!
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      "There are no magic wands, no hidden tricks, and no secret handshakes that can bring you immediate success, but with time, energy, and determination you can get there."
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    • Profile picture of the author Becker13
      Banned
      Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

      Bleh ...I know this was meant to be all touchy feely and I feel your pain empathy but there is just too much hogwash in there for me to bathe in. People don't have to know all 200 whatever ranking factors to know what Google wants. Yes you have to have diversify but SEO can be very stable.

      We can all point to sites that were in our eyes okay but its just denial not to admit that most of the time people here get slapped its because they were looking for shortcuts around real work and real investment.

      EMD , wordpress and some $4 articles is part of the culture that leads to most of these slaps. then it was software blasting tools or a few dollars to some service everybody was using or even fiverr gigs as a supposed business model

      Can and do good sites get slapped ? Yes but sorry I am one of the guys people PM and say Yo Mike here is my site what do you think? how can I rank it? and honestly 9 out 10 times the site is not very good. Its usually a standard wordpress site with some content that no one would find interesting , engaging and half the time even readable. Its written just to get some keywords in.

      why is it that update after update its the people here who argue for quality that report being untouched. You guys don't get it. 90% of the time they ARE doing something you are not and their business model is stable because they get repeat traffic from their rankings even if they later fall.

      So the whole idea that SEO is this great big crap shoot and no one knows how to do it just because you keep getting slapped is just false. if a good site ranks for even four months and gets caught in the crossfire and drops its income does not go to zero because just like Wf on a smaller scale it will get return traffic

      A business that flops the minute it cant run an advertisement is a business made in mud that has no repeat traffic and has built no customer base. The problem is you have a wrong view of search engines. They should be nothing more than opportunities to advertise your business but in truth you have made them your business because there is nothing at your site that really qualifies as a business without them

      You Mike I disagree with you a lot but that was very well said

      People call their SEO a "business" but what SEO is for most people is trying to get something for nothing.

      Like you said, a real business is not just going to die because its ad stopped running. A real business also isn't solely based a single type of ad

      Great post.
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  • Profile picture of the author IM Ash
    @MA

    A solid business plan does not have its foundation in an uncertain environment! No one predicted panda, penguin or the mass blog network deindexing... this EMD update was probably a long time coming but still no one predicted when it will happpen!

    Hogwash is building a business on shaky ground! I am young, not married so my responsibilites are not the same as someone in their mid-30's with a family and kids. I have 18 sites, one tanked... I can get over that but there are others who need to know that this environment is unpredictable and there are other ways that are more sustainable to make money online.

    It is easy to say these are the factors why site's tank: "emd's, $4 articles and wordpress" etc. but I am sorry you have not seeing every site that has tanked and you do not know the reasons why every site has tanked. Google have a long-term plan and the little guy isn't in it!

    Not everyone has the skills, resources or know-how to make a site that stands above the rest! Many are attracted to this industry out of desperation and because of the low barrier to entry - many just want to make a few extra bucks to pay the rent - and these are the people getting nuked but even those who are doing everything Google's way are also getting nuked. What does this say:

    This industry is unpredictable and it does not provide the formula for a sustainable online business!
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    • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
      Originally Posted by IM Ash View Post

      @MA
      A solid business plan does not have its foundation in an uncertain environment! No one predicted panda, penguin or the mass blog network deindexing...
      What are you talking about? I had a course from last year August on how to build a network and almost every way that BMR did things I told them to do it the other way. I mention this because where they are housed has the day they were published and that is from last year BEFORE any BMR deindexing. No Google didn't say hey in March we will slap rental networks enmasse but sites got deindexed long before that and I was not the only one to know it either! Seriously did you need to be told that sites that had like 40 subjects on the same page that anyone could sign up for was not at risk?


      this EMD update was probably a long time coming but still no one predicted when it will happpen!
      So what? Its hurricane season and some years nothing happens and you never know when but you are going to act all shocked when you live in south florida and theres a hurricane on its way??? This is the silliest of all the changes because people told you guys EMDS were going to devalued sooner or later and many went right on laughing and depending on it like it was going to always be around. As for Penguin. I have threads in here and so do others warning people about blasting mass spammy links from 2010. Its actually a wonder it took Google so long to do what Penguin did and they told you for years THEY WERE GOING TO DO IT. However you all chose to believe the guys running around telling you bad links could never hurt you.

      Hogwash is building a business on shaky ground!
      Thats right and hog wash is claiming everybody is on the same ground

      but I am sorry you have not seeing every site that has tanked and you do not know the reasons why every site has tanked.
      Heres a newsflash I DON'T HAVE TO KNOW WHY EVERY SITE HAS TANKED, I just have to know what Google wants and instead of trying to skirt around it to give the least I can to rank I do something revolutionary - I give it to them. Now can I lose a site when they go after other people? you bet. But my odds are pretty good if I have five solid ones I go on. thats not unstable . Thats pretty stable. Further let me ask you a question. How long have EMDs been working? Let me answer - YEARS AND YEARS,. Search engine traffic is built on people looking for things they have not found not for things they already know where to find. The search count for each month is therefore a very small fraction of people with interest in the niche. Those who already have searched and found become repeat visitors to sites they have already found (like right here on WF).

      So why do marketers that have been ranking for years have to whine and complain when they got free advertising for years and years? Any other business on the planet with a half decent product or service would have repeat customers tht there business relies on. But imers? they have almost no customers the day after they no longer rank. That tells you they had no service or product anyone wanted.

      Not everyone has the skills, resources or know-how to make a site that stands above the rest! Many are attracted to this industry out of desperation and because of the low barrier to entry........What does this say:
      This industry is unpredictable and it does not provide the formula for a sustainable online business!
      BINGo! BINGO! BINGO! That sums up the mentality perfectly and I thank you for the honesty. In other words your idea of a sustainable business model is one where you don't have the skill, don't have the resources , don't know how to build sites that stands out from the rest but still by a sheer act of obligation think that google should make your sites stand out by ranking you at the top.

      You are not asking for a business model. In the US we call that Welfare. So lets revise that stement of yours this way

      "The industry does not provide the formula for a sustainable online business for those without the know how to sustain it or to stand out in it"

      Name me one business industry that does

      Welcome to business 101 - just because its online doesn't mean you get to live in a make believe world.
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      • Profile picture of the author IM Ash
        Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

        Heres a newsflash I DON'T HAVE TO KNOW WHY EVERY SITE HAS TANKED, I just have to know what Google wants and instead of trying to skirt around it to give the least I can to rank I do something revolutionary - I give it to them.
        SEO from Google's standpoint should be about on-page optimization and that is what Google wants. Sites that are easily crawled and well structured! IF people want to learn SEO they should invest their time, money and effort in structuring a site that Google loves!

        Giving them what they want does not involve manipulating their system by artificially creating links!

        Now, I do not want to sound all white hat because I manipulate their system on a daily basis, but one thing I know: there is a reason why WSOs that claim to remove Google from your business completely are so popular - people are realizing that you cannot place your business in the hands of a 3rd party (a search engine)!

        I am not against SEO (I love it) but I will always preach diversification! SEO should form one part of a traffic generation strategy and it should not be the central focus of any business but rather a bi-product of other efforts like creating a great site and promoting via other online channnels like Social Media, PPC, Outbrain etc.
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  • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
    I want to add one thing to what I just wrote and its this. Nothing is too hard online for you to make your site stand out. there are plenty of niches where no one does. But the other side of not having the know how is this -

    too many Imers don't want the know how. They don't want to rank they want to rank easy. Over the years I have watched some of the best WSOs go without sales because if sellers doesn't say "you can make $4,000 in 15 days sitting on your couch" many of you guys want nothing to do with it. there are ton loads of stuff that I nor anyone else would ever share here. for a hypothetical -

    If I told people they could build great sites with this and that feature that your visitors will engage with and come back to use. It will even help you develop user generated content. Do you know what would be the response of many Imers here at WF?

    Can I use Wordpress?

    and if you told them no Drupal or Joomla they run away from the entire idea no matter any other benefit because it would involve OH NO!! learning something else besides Wordpress. Thats just lazy business thinking. It has nothing to do with not having the know how. It has to do with not even wanting to put in any effort into getting that know how.
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  • Profile picture of the author JamesColin
    Banned
    Why call it SEO if it's all about Google anyway? Call it GO :-)
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  • Profile picture of the author Mantasmo
    None of you have any clue how complex systems work (literally - not a clue), stop kidding yourselves and pretending to be pros.

    Good luck, bros.
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    • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
      Originally Posted by IM Ash View Post

      - people are realizing that you cannot place your business in the hands of a 3rd party (a search engine)!

      I am not against SEO (I love it) but I will always preach diversification! SEO should form one part of a traffic generation strategy and it should not be the central focus of any business but rather a bi-product of other efforts like creating a great site .
      IM ASh what you continue to miss is that outside of this little marketers world many of the things that you call diversification has been a part of SEO for years and people who treat search engine optimization as an advertising model and not their entire business have been doing so for years as well

      Theres not a thing wrong with using SEO as a main advertising model. It brings in thousands of people. what people have been doing is treating the advertising as the business because there is no real business or even decent user experience at the sites they create


      Originally Posted by bnetwork View Post

      None of you have any clue how complex systems work (literally - not a clue), stop kidding yourselves and pretending to be pros.

      Good luck, bros.
      That comment would make a smidgen of sense if in fact anyone

      A) claimed they did understand the complex system (read the thread before commenting it helps greatly to then make coherent statements)
      B) anyone claimed to be a pro

      Trying to mystify SEO is nonsense. Even though we will never know all the details there are many things that we do know and Google has not changed. Marketers only try to act like theres some mystery to things because they constantly try and work around what they know search engines really want.

      There will always be sites we don't understand why they rank and exceptions to the rule. After every update people try and point at the exceptions to the rule and argue and pretend like that means the rules are unknowable. You will sometimes find a Woman loving and wanting to be with a man that abuses her. She will stay with him for awhile and he will draw all kinds of conclusions from it but the general rule is Women do not put up with such crap and if they do only for awhile. Pointing at one that does isn't a mystification of the rules. Its just an exception that you would be foolish to then question the rule based on.
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      • Profile picture of the author IM Ash
        Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

        IM ASh what you continue to miss is that outside of this little marketers world many of the things that you call diversification has been a part of SEO for years and people who treat search engine optimization as an advertising model and not their entire business have been doing so for years as well
        Perhaps you are right! But I know I am not the only one who has this addiction to free traffic. My point of the thread is to make people aware of the risks and uncertainties of SEO.

        SEO as a part of a marketing plan - YES!
        SEO as the sole marketing plan - NO!
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  • Profile picture of the author Mantasmo
    Mike put me in my place, I'm gonna go back to work now.
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