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Calling out bad tactics

by dvduval
46 replies
  • SEO
    • |
I don't like to call out a specific business but I sure do see a lot of offerings being made that offer services that are sure to get people slapped with the Google unnatural linking penalty and make a website untrusted by google for months or years to come.

It's not just SEO! It is also automated content systems, but certainly getting tons of profile links and comments on unrelated blogs and many other automated tools are a big problem.

I would go so far as to say there is more money in selling the tools than what the tools produce. Everyone wants traffic and rankings and ways to make money but so often I see the dream being sold, but the tools use tactics that create the opposite.

That is very unfortunate, and I hope the people on the forum need not feel ashamed of talking about quality, and calling out bad strategies that just don't work.
#bad #calling #tactics
  • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
    Banned
    Originally Posted by dvduval View Post

    I don't like to call out a specific business but I sure do see a lot of offerings being made that offer services that are sure to get people slapped with the Google unnatural linking penalty
    So do I. Hundreds of them. It's frightening.

    At the same time that people are holding discussions here of the reasons that Google has given some of them for their sites being so heavily penalized, there are other members promoting services based on exactly the same softwares that are getting people into trouble. What can you do, though, other than answering specific questions people ask? :confused:

    We can't start making adverse comments about other people's sig-files. And you can't say anything adverse in a WSO (or similar) thread without having bought the product/service. It's just "caveat emptor", unfortunately. And because of that, a lot of people here are currently buying services which will seriously damage their businesses.

    This situation used not to be nearly so bad, a couple of years ago, when backlink selling wasn't allowed here. But it is, again, now.

    Thank you for posting and drawing attention to it, anyway.
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    • Profile picture of the author dvduval
      Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

      This situation used not to be nearly so bad, a couple of years ago, when backlink selling wasn't allowed here. But it is, again, now.

      Thank you for posting and drawing attention to it, anyway.
      I was not sure how you would react to this but sure happy with your response. Very much so. I plan to do more of this (but not naming specific businesses) in the future and hope you and others will help too.

      After all, we want people to stay with Warrior Forum over the years, not get suckered and feel it was all a waste of time!
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  • Profile picture of the author Auctiondebteliminator
    I just follow this one rule- and it's kept me out of trouble:

    "Don't outsource SEO"

    I've done quite well - as I know I'm in control of my techniques.
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    • Profile picture of the author Michael Nguyen
      Originally Posted by Auctiondebteliminator View Post

      I just follow this one rule- and it's kept me out of trouble:

      "Don't outsource SEO"

      I've done quite well - as I know I'm in control of my techniques.
      I disagree. My clients know nothing about SEO but they need it. Everyone thinks they can do SEO but not everyone can do SEO well.

      What is missing in this forum is real industry standard SEO and not the type of SEO where you get a wordpress site and use all in one seo.
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      • Profile picture of the author Andyhenry
        Originally Posted by Michael Nguyen View Post

        What is missing in this forum is real industry standard SEO and not the type of SEO where you get a wordpress site and use all in one seo.
        No - it's here.

        It's just buried under all the myth and lies that are pushed by the massive number of people selling this trash to unsuspecting noobies who have bought into the "push button income" mindset and think they can buy some quick offers and then get everything they need done for them without having to do any real work.

        This forum has all the great information you could need about almost any subject, but it's a marketing forum and there are a lot of people around who only make money from selling hype to noobies, so that over-rides almost any type of decent content.
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        nothing to see here.

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        • Profile picture of the author tinknocker
          Originally Posted by Andyhenry View Post

          No - it's here.

          It's just buried under all the myth and lies that are pushed by the massive number of people selling this trash to unsuspecting noobies who have bought into the "push button income" mindset and think they can buy some quick offers and then get everything they need done for them without having to do any real work.

          This forum has all the great information you could need about almost any subject, but it's a marketing forum and there are a lot of people around who only make money from selling hype to noobies, so that over-rides almost any type of decent content.



          Yip your right on this. There is a lot of noise on here for sure. I see the noobies and even long time members with questions they post (I'm one of those)...then the answers come from mostly new signups that are just throwing garbage answers that are for the most part bad practice regurgitated junk answers.

          But for those who know how to dig just like gold mining, there is a lot of dirt and gravel to get through till you reach the gold. There is a lot of gold here that's worth taking the time to dig for.

          There are people here worth following and once you know how to sift through who the authorities are the better. Unfortunately this takes time to know who's who.
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  • Profile picture of the author Green Moon
    There seem to be more people offering or endorsing BAD strategies than good ones. I think there are a couple of reasons:

    1. Bad strategies are easier to provide (Want instant submission to 500 directories? No problem, done.) The tools that allowed these bulk submissions are often free.
    2. Because the bad strategies are easy to provide, they can be sold cheap and therefore are easier to sell to unsophisticated new IM'ers.
    3. Some people offering these services are simply WAY behind the curve and don't know anything else. Some of them may be so far behind that they actually believe that these bad tactics work.
    4. Out-dated strategies are probably easier to explain to new IM'ers. A good SEO strategy is not simple.
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  • Profile picture of the author adsassist
    I remember using these tactics when I first started.

    It is a sad feeling once you do get educated. Finding out it all was a waste of time, and money. These tactics put me behind at least 4-5 months when I first started.

    I think the reason why so many people do this is, they are looking for fast money. They spend a week trying to build a list and give up. Thinking they can actually make money making bot traffic software or selling bot traffic like on Fiverr.

    I wish people would just tell it how it is. If you don't know, then learn it the right way or get a 9-5 job. Earning a real income online is not easy like most people portray. It is hours of learning and testing.

    I don't even look at WSO anymore as most are just broken promises aimed at newbies to spend their money on something they know wont help. Leaving hug peaces out for them to come back for more.

    The reason I am so heart felt about this is, I went through it and don't want others to go through it. The reason why I'm setting up a membership to help teach newbies the right path to follow with good tactics. Making the IM world a better place.
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  • Profile picture of the author dvduval
    And here is one for you...
    A free do-follow link from nature.com (pagerank 6)
    When you buy high pagerank links, it is crap like this. I bet we have people jumping at this opportunity! NOT ME!
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  • Profile picture of the author Auctiondebteliminator
    I just clicked on a number of those websites shown there in the 'comments'.

    I didn't find it a bit coincidental that they have NO semrush ranks.....

    You almost want to go to all of the 'contact us' and tell them 'Hey -- I know you went and did a backlink service--- and ....uhh.... It didn't work..... Here's the data to prove it.'
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  • Profile picture of the author Auctiondebteliminator
    You might have misunderstood.

    It is MY personal rule.

    I do know what I'm talking about --- so I make sure I'm in complete control.
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  • Profile picture of the author paulgl
    Originally Posted by dvduval View Post

    I don't like to call out a specific business but I sure do see a lot of offerings being made that offer services that are sure to get people slapped with the Google unnatural linking penalty and make a website untrusted by google for months or years to come.
    And if not that, they flat out don't propel anyone to anything, let alone
    a rise in SERPs or cash.

    But hey, I hope you change your tune and start liking to call them out.

    There seems to be this huge divide on the WF.

    Those who are clueless and seek snake oil.
    Those peddling snake oil.
    Those who call out the snake oil salesmen.
    And those who bad mouth those who do the calling out.

    Go figure.

    I have ended a lot of replies like this:
    It all adds up.
    There is no more wondering why there are so many fail threads here.
    Nobody seems to give a rat's behind about rats leading people down
    a sewer.

    Paul
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    • Profile picture of the author dvduval
      Originally Posted by paulgl View Post

      And if not that, they flat out don't propel anyone to anything, let alone
      a rise in SERPs or cash.

      But hey, I hope you change your tune and start liking to call them out.

      There seems to be this huge divide on the WF.

      Those who are clueless and seek snake oil.
      Those peddling snake oil.
      Those who call out the snake oil salesmen.
      And those who bad mouth those who do the calling out.

      Go figure.

      I have ended a lot of replies like this:
      It all adds up.
      There is no more wondering why there are so many fail threads here.
      Nobody seems to give a rat's behind about rats leading people down
      a sewer.

      Paul
      And anything that has to do with SEO which is where the snake oil is sold gets moved to the SEO forum and out of the view of most people. The SEO forum is then filled with stickies making it further difficult to see what is getting called out. The snake oil salesmen have a layer of protection!
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      • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
        Originally Posted by dvduval View Post

        And anything that has to do with SEO which is where the snake oil is sold gets moved to the SEO forum and out of the view of most people.
        You are kidding yourself. You all are. The kind of SEO offered is perfectly in keeping with the rest of the board. This is a make money online board and the WSO section emphasizes color by number ways to make money online, get rich quick and "I make a hundred dollars a day sitting on my couch" offers. How in the world can you then expect the SEO offered to be different from that? Of course SEO that will now harm your site will be offered. Not because the sellers want to hurt sites but because its easy quick and can be done with a few clicks. That FITS into the get rick quick or with paint by number strategies that are sold in WSOs.

        Whenever you gather people together that think a certain way you are going to get a certain kind of SEO.

        The market here demands a certain kind of SEo that feeds those kind of empty dreams.

        Yukon is on the money. Its not going away and never will among make money online internet marketing because it is cheap requires little work and no imagination. You can all talk about cleaning up or even pointing out all the bad offers but its like lecturing on the virtues of modest dressing in a strip club. The market here will not buy it and they will rightfully tell you to shut up because of your foolishness of picking the strip club as the place to sell modesty.

        Tonight I had to deal with a customer I got through here and it has inspired me to pull the plug on my sig here until I remove any mention of providing SEO . Its one of the most ridiculous work situations I have ever found myself in but I sat down and thought about it and realized that every single problem with this customer was a result of a give me quick, I want to rank yesterday for relatively little or nothing philosophy that is simple a part and parcel of a Make money online quick and easy WSO mentality. Every thing I laid out to the customer before they ever signed up told them this would be a process that would take months but it went through one ear and out the other because of the mentality already ingrained here.

        SO the truth is - THIS BOARD cannot handle solid and safe SEo because that takes time, work and yes investment. ALl of those things are diametrically opposed to the culture of the WSO which like it or not represents a good part of the training and pulse of this board.

        Me? I've decided I can't bother with the craziness. I looked in the mirror and realized it was no accident I had to deal with a customer like that and it was much more my fault than I chose to admit initially. Of course if I go to a male strip joint to sell clothes its only a matter of time before a lady sticks some bills in mt belt and says

        "Okat I'll buy but you put them on honey and then.......... take them off real slow"

        Its the nature of the beast. You can call for a mop to deal with the water on the kitchen floor but if the pipes are still leaking its pointless. I woke up tonight and I am now officially out of that game.
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        • Profile picture of the author dvduval
          Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

          Its the nature of the beast. You can call for a mop to deal with the water on the kitchen floor but if the pipes are still leaking its pointless. I woke up tonight and I am now officially out of that game.
          Well a mop could clean up this site, and the pipes could leak somewhere else. If there is clear knowledge that people's sites are being harmed, why not confront the problem? This forum may do well in the short term with this strategy, but in the long term the reputation will fall. It's not too later, but I see some quality smaller forums becoming more mature and full of smart people who know that their success depends on their long term honesty and integrity.
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        • Profile picture of the author passiveincomebiz
          I think only when people who use those spammy link services get sick and tired of being sick and tired of Google's pets, will they abandon those services and invest in other more reliable and better converting traffic

          For me 2013 is the year I am dedication to learning more about and implementing media buys. It took me being hit by Penguin to finally come to my senses and realize that I just can't keep up with Big G algo-changes and that I really don't need to
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        • Profile picture of the author Edwards WOrld
          Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

          You are kidding yourself. You all are. The kind of SEO offered is perfectly in keeping with the rest of the board. This is a make money online board and the WSO section emphasizes color by number ways to make money online, get rich quick and "I make a hundred dollars a day sitting on my couch" offers. How in the world can you then expect the SEO offered to be different from that? Of course SEO that will now harm your site will be offered. Not because the sellers want to hurt sites but because its easy quick and can be done with a few clicks. That FITS into the get rick quick or with paint by number strategies that are sold in WSOs.

          Whenever you gather people together that think a certain way you are going to get a certain kind of SEO.

          The market here demands a certain kind of SEo that feeds those kind of empty dreams.

          Yukon is on the money. Its not going away and never will among make money online internet marketing because it is cheap requires little work and no imagination. You can all talk about cleaning up or even pointing out all the bad offers but its like lecturing on the virtues of modest dressing in a strip club. The market here will not buy it and they will rightfully tell you to shut up because of your foolishness of picking the strip club as the place to sell modesty.

          Tonight I had to deal with a customer I got through here and it has inspired me to pull the plug on my sig here until I remove any mention of providing SEO . Its one of the most ridiculous work situations I have ever found myself in but I sat down and thought about it and realized that every single problem with this customer was a result of a give me quick, I want to rank yesterday for relatively little or nothing philosophy that is simple a part and parcel of a Make money online quick and easy WSO mentality. Every thing I laid out to the customer before they ever signed up told them this would be a process that would take months but it went through one ear and out the other because of the mentality already ingrained here.

          SO the truth is - THIS BOARD cannot handle solid and safe SEo because that takes time, work and yes investment. ALl of those things are diametrically opposed to the culture of the WSO which like it or not represents a good part of the training and pulse of this board.

          Me? I've decided I can't bother with the craziness. I looked in the mirror and realized it was no accident I had to deal with a customer like that and it was much more my fault than I chose to admit initially. Of course if I go to a male strip joint to sell clothes its only a matter of time before a lady sticks some bills in mt belt and says

          "Okat I'll buy but you put them on honey and then.......... take them off real slow"

          Its the nature of the beast. You can call for a mop to deal with the water on the kitchen floor but if the pipes are still leaking its pointless. I woke up tonight and I am now officially out of that game.
          Mikes a good guy.... What did you people here do to him....
          -EA
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      • Profile picture of the author Hansons
        Originally Posted by dvduval View Post

        And anything that has to do with SEO which is where the snake oil is sold gets moved to the SEO forum and out of the view of most people. The SEO forum is then filled with stickies making it further difficult to see what is getting called out. The snake oil salesmen have a layer of protection!
        Getting those who sells snake oil, there is no guarantee that you would get the pure snake oil... they may be like you, they may also be clueless..because snake oil is not too cheap to buy...
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  • Profile picture of the author Karan Rawat
    "I am in control of my techniques too"
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  • Profile picture of the author yukon
    Banned
    The problem is the people buying the junk, If people didn't want something for nothing the junk sellers would be out of business. Example, fiverr. Your not going to shut down fiverr. Even If you convince the majority of folks here on WF that they're wasting their time with junk SEO services, there's still millions landing on fiverr gigs & buying, today, tomorrow, next week...

    You'll never stop people/buyers wanting something for nothing, not going to happen.

    The mentality is, it's only $5, $7, etc... doesn't matter to them If it makes sense, it's only $5.
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  • Profile picture of the author jxam69
    Is this Matt Cuts talking about WSOs?


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    • Profile picture of the author yukon
      Banned
      Originally Posted by jxam69 View Post

      Is this Matt Cuts talking about WSOs?
      He does make a good point about clueless people buying junk links, but his motive is to get everyone to stop building links, that includes quality links & junk links.

      The problem isn't links, the problem is junk links, two different things. A webmaster can still build quality links & rank pages, it doesn't have to be only traffic building their links.

      Keep an eye out for motives, what's in it for the other guy. While we don't know what Google is doing behind the curtain, a lot of this stuff isn't that difficult to test & figure out. It's still all about text/links.
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  • Profile picture of the author Rick B
    Do yourself a favor and spend 90% of your time building a site that people will like and 10% of your time on SEO. I've building sites since the mid 1990s and know a lot of people earning big money on the web (including myself). Most of us have one thing in common. We spend very little time trying to manipulate search engines. We spend lots of time building quality sites that people love. And the links come naturally.

    Out of the 10% of your time you spend on SEO, make most of that "on page SEO" so the search engines know what your pages are about and don't try to fake anything.

    If your page is about "Improving Your Posture Through Yoga", put those words in the title tag. Put a photo on the page with an alt tag including those words. Use those words a few times on the page in a natural way. That's really all the search engines need to send you targeted traffic.

    Then get back to building great content. Did you ever see that movie "Field of Dreams"?

    "If you build it they will come"! But only if you build it well. If you build a crappy baseball field it doesn't matter how much time you spend trying to convince people to come and if you build a crappy website it doesn't matter how many links you build to it. You may make a few bucks. A few even earn more than a few bucks for a while doing that. But those of us who have been earning good livings online consistently for ten or fifteen years are doing it by providing something people want. If people want it, so will the search engines and so will the advertisers.

    Or waste your time believing that you can trick the brightest minds in the business at Google into thinking that your site is great because you have thousands of links from blogs and forums that are loaded with other links to other sites that aren't great either.

    Here's my advice on buying SEO services. If they aren't likely to produce REAL traffic to your site, forget it! If they are just going to try to trick Google, forget it! If they provide nonsense articles that you wouldn't waste your time reading, forget it! If they get you links where tons of other people are getting untargeted links, forget it! You are just as likely to hurt your search engine results with those as you are to improve them. Again ... those guys at Google, Yahoo and Bing aren't stupid. They know those links are garbage.

    If you build something worthwhile though, people will tell their friends via links. Authority sites will recommend your site via links. And best of all, those links are the ones that search engines love most and they don't cost a dime.
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    • Profile picture of the author China Newz
      [QUOTE=Rick B;7626688]Do yourself a favor and spend 90% of your time building a site that people will like and 10% of your time on SEO. I've building sites since the mid 1990s and know a lot of people earning big money on the web (including myself). Most of us have one thing in common. We spend very little time trying to manipulate search engines. We spend lots of time building quality sites that people love. And the links come naturally.

      Out of the 10% of your time you spend on SEO, make most of that "on page SEO" so the search engines know what your pages are about and don't try to fake anything.

      :p

      Amen. Focus on good content, key word research, long tail optimization and on page SEO.
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  • Profile picture of the author supereek
    Agree with OP.

    I own ScrapeBox licensed. I only use it to scrape nicherelated blogs and check their PR.
    The commenting i do manually after that. Seems like google is tightening up the TOS lately.
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  • Profile picture of the author PerformanceMan
    The pigs get slaughtered...it's the law of the land!

    Greedy webmasters with crappy websites want rankings they don't really deserve. Sleazy SEO snakeoil salesman exploits their weakness and takes them to the cleaners with 'push button' link building.

    In this scenario we have two distinct 'business operations' operating in a non value-added way. The original webmaster didn't care about providing excellent value to site visitors and now the SEO doesn't care about providing amazing link value.

    It's a case of 'getting what you deserve.'
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    • Profile picture of the author Prowebstakht
      Originally Posted by PerformanceMan View Post

      The pigs get slaughtered...it's the law of the land!

      Greedy webmasters with crappy websites want rankings they don't really deserve. Sleazy SEO snakeoil salesman exploits their weakness and takes them to the cleaners with 'push button' link building.

      In this scenario we have two distinct 'business operations' operating in a non value-added way. The original webmaster didn't care about providing excellent value to site visitors and now the SEO doesn't care about providing amazing link value.

      It's a case of 'getting what you deserve.'
      You are a very intelligent person and you make good points. I believe that "what goes around comes around" , the natural law of the Universe. People who want to make money and quick cash by playing on other people's innocence eventually do pay hefty penalties in various forms and manifestations. I am also a believer in educating people about SEO and I am seeing a trend on the WF now that is clearly indicating that most people are much smarter now, and they are not willing to waste their time and money on buying links or link packages that are doomed for failure
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  • Profile picture of the author HKSEO Jonbones
    This is truly a condition created by the consumers of SEO--People want instant gratification, and that just does not work with SEO. It takes time--but the guys that are honest about how SEO works get pushed aside by big promises of being on the first page tomorrow by providers of junk services.

    So, if your customers demand quick results, and you aren't making any money trying to educate the public, and hearing that "you just don't know what you're doing if it takes you that long"--it's a fairly simple business decision--give the people what they want. It's not the fault of the provider for giving exactly what was asked for.

    We try to educate our customers about how all of this works, so that they understand what we do for them, what they are getting out of it, and how long it will take.--I know for a fact that we have lost some big clients willing to spend thousands of dollars a month because we told them that their expectations were not realistic. They went for promises of fast results with another company for their SEO, and they are still paying the price for not having realistic expectations.

    Don't blame the guy selling the exploding car when the customer wants an exploding car. Make the customer understand that he does not want the exploding car, and there will be no more exploding cars for sale.


    edit-just realized I summarized Mike Anthony's post
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    • Profile picture of the author BBMedia
      I have been in the marketing industry since 1998. I use to run a free lotto site and a ton of affiliate casino sites. Did very well until the online gambling act. I than started really focusing on local SEO working with companies in my local market and our company now works with companies locally in 9 different states.

      I have been watching this forum for years, never really commenting just watching. I have seen some really bad information come from this place but I have also seen some really good and very knowledgeable information from here as well.

      Recently it has become more and more of a black hat trading spot than a place were people can gather the information they need.

      What I believe should be done to ensure new users and the future SEO'ers of the world get the correct information instead of being bamboozled by the "snake oil salesman" is create a forum within the forum where you can't sell anything. Any post selling this link, that program, and a wishing well gets automatically removed and the user gets deleted.

      I am sure all SEO people here worth their weight has tried and tested most of these snake oils in the day the solutions worked and now are focused on doing what is right for their clients. The ones still offering these services are taking advantage of people on this forum that are trying to learn and build up their tool belts. Its really sad to see and I am glad it being called out.

      There are a lot of smart "ETHICAL" SEO people here but unfortunately people that are coming here to get information on SEO are now being walked into the black tent next door and walking out with packages that are doing nothing but destroying their chances of success.

      Well there is my 2cents.
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      • Profile picture of the author Prowebstakht
        Originally Posted by BBMedia View Post

        I have been in the marketing industry since 1998. I use to run a free lotto site and a ton of affiliate casino sites. Did very well until the online gambling act. I than started really focusing on local SEO working with companies in my local market and our company now works with companies locally in 9 different states.

        I have been watching this forum for years, never really commenting just watching. I have seen some really bad information come from this place but I have also seen some really good and very knowledgeable information from here as well.

        Recently it has become more and more of a black hat trading spot than a place were people can gather the information they need.

        What I believe should be done to ensure new users and the future SEO'ers of the world get the correct information instead of being bamboozled by the "snake oil salesman" is create a forum within the forum where you can't sell anything. Any post selling this link, that program, and a wishing well gets automatically removed and the user gets deleted.

        I am sure all SEO people here worth their weight has tried and tested most of these snake oils in the day the solutions worked and now are focused on doing what is right for their clients. The ones still offering these services are taking advantage of people on this forum that are trying to learn and build up their tool belts. Its really sad to see and I am glad it being called out.

        There are a lot of smart "ETHICAL" SEO people here but unfortunately people that are coming here to get information on SEO are now being walked into the black tent next door and walking out with packages that are doing nothing but destroying their chances of success.

        Well there is my 2cents.

        Agreeable Buddy Check out my signature for further details and fee free to comment further
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  • Profile picture of the author SkooterSuite
    its so funny that mattlaclear has decided to take off his picture from his profile, discontinue a few threads, became a warrior member and deleted the comments from other people about him doing Article Marketing Robot Blasts. He thinks that he can go undetected but he doesnt lol. He is nothing but a spam Lord of SEO. Just Avoid his services period. His customers are leaving him due to his spammy based link approaches.
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    • Profile picture of the author PeckhamPirate
      A-Men to that.
      Like many people posting on this thread I always stayed away from seo services preferring the DIY approach.

      But after seeing a certain proveider's multiple threads, and the many many reviews he had, at the end of 2012 I purchased my first 'Guaranteed page 1' bla bla bla.

      The result? My five year old site - my main money site and the thing that's fed me and my family for half a decade - virtually disappeared...

      Luckily my existing clients and referred traffic is keeping me going.

      Funnily enough I got ripped off by a copywriter (username WroteInAmerica - avoid) just a few weeks later, and it's really pissed me off to the point I haven't spent a penny here since, preferring the stable platform (and providers) on places like ELance.

      Hell, this is getting more of a lottery than Fiverr.

      But I guess WF is the longterm loser, as we find new places to share our ideas and thoughts.

      Anyway, really happy the MLC issue is out in the open. I'd been thinking for months it was just me.
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      • Profile picture of the author nest28
        Originally Posted by PeckhamPirate View Post

        A-Men to that.
        Like many people posting on this thread I always stayed away from seo services preferring the DIY approach.

        But after Matt's threads, and the many many reviews he had, at the end of 2012 I purchased my first 'Guaranteed page 1' bla bla bla.

        The result? My five year old site - my main money site and the thing that's fed me and my family for half a decade - virtually disappeared...

        Luckily my existing clients and referred traffic is keeping me going.

        Funnily enough I got ripped off by a copywriter (username WroteInAmerica - avoid) just a few weeks later, and it's really pissed me off to the point I haven't spent a penny here since, preferring the stable platform (and providers) on places like ELance.

        Hell, this is getting more of a lottery than Fiverr.

        But I guess WF is the longterm loser, as we find new places to share our ideas and thoughts.

        Anyway, really happy the MLC issue is out in the open. I'd been thinking for months it was just me.
        I to was fooled by all the positive comments on his page, until I saw my links showing up in webmaster tools and realized he was using Article Marketing Robot, which I owned at the time. If all I wanted was crappy article directory links than I would set up a campaign in AMR myself.

        Bottom line, avoid wf for services, and advice, now that I think of it, what's the point of coming here lol.
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      • Profile picture of the author Prowebstakht
        Originally Posted by PeckhamPirate View Post

        A-Men to that.
        Like many people posting on this thread I always stayed away from seo services preferring the DIY approach.

        But after Matt's threads, and the many many reviews he had, at the end of 2012 I purchased my first 'Guaranteed page 1' bla bla bla.

        The result? My five year old site - my main money site and the thing that's fed me and my family for half a decade - virtually disappeared...

        Luckily my existing clients and referred traffic is keeping me going.

        Funnily enough I got ripped off by a copywriter (username WroteInAmerica - avoid) just a few weeks later, and it's really pissed me off to the point I haven't spent a penny here since, preferring the stable platform (and providers) on places like ELance.

        Hell, this is getting more of a lottery than Fiverr.

        But I guess WF is the longterm loser, as we find new places to share our ideas and thoughts.

        Anyway, really happy the MLC issue is out in the open. I'd been thinking for months it was just me.
        You see, this is the exact Point! More people are being made aware of the Problem on the WF, and it is up to you to ensure that other warriors find out as to exactly what they should be purchasing. I am not surprised to hear your account of the SEO story because hundreds of other warriors have suffered the same fate due to purchasing such links where quality was not present. Hence came all the Google slaps and penalties.
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    • Profile picture of the author PeckhamPirate
      No.
      I'm sure there are reputable providers here on the forum.
      I'd love to find one.
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      • Profile picture of the author Prowebstakht
        Originally Posted by PeckhamPirate View Post

        No.
        I'm sure there are reputable providers here on the forum.
        I'd love to find one.
        Nik0, MikeFriedman, Mike Anthony and the Lawguy are at the top of their game as of now. However, we will see as to how well they do as time progresses
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        • Profile picture of the author PeckhamPirate
          Anyone remember a dirt cheap tool sold here last year called AutoBackLinkMagic.
          That puppy still does the business for me on a number of sites.
          I've always used it to cherry pick High PR blogs, but I may just start using it all the time.

          This just sprang to mind.

          In the time it takes to read the average sales page for an SEO guy (I'm thinking Matt's reviews here) you can normally post 3 or 4 comments of your own on high PR, related-to-your-niche blogs.
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  • Profile picture of the author Curtis2011
    Originally Posted by dvduval View Post

    I would go so far as to say there is more money in selling the tools than what the tools produce.
    Welcome to the world of "how to make money online" internet marketing, where the marketing tactics are made up and the guarantees don't matter.

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  • Profile picture of the author YasirYar
    Bad SEO tactics are the reasons why Google Panda and Penguin update was released. It aimed at penalizing websites that are doing keyword stuffing, cloaking, poor back links and rehashing content.
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    • Profile picture of the author dvduval
      Originally Posted by YasirYar View Post

      Bad SEO tactics are the reasons why Google Panda and Penguin update was released. It aimed at penalizing websites that are doing keyword stuffing, cloaking, poor back links and rehashing content.
      I "somewhat" agree. However, people are still buying and selling pagerank, and google is doing little to penalize link sellers in terms of pagerank. They do occasionally cut the pagerank of a site that is spammed or full of sold links, but mostly they don't and it leaves open a huge gray market. The difficult twist is people here on WF and elsewhere buy links because of the pagerank, but the links don't help them. In essence they are in cahoots with Google who gives the high pagerank but no actual ranking benefit.
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  • Profile picture of the author dvduval
    I would love to see a topic like this discussed in the main forum, as this is not limited to the buying and selling of links or similar.
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  • Profile picture of the author webcosmo
    Originally Posted by dvduval View Post


    I would go so far as to say there is more money in selling the tools than what the tools produce.
    This is well known, look at ADOBE , i's sure they make MORE, much more than anyone that uses their products.
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  • Profile picture of the author Slin
    I don't know what exact products you guys are talking about.

    But to be honest, I am a little bit more aggressive then some people on here advise with my seo, and I haven't had any issues.

    Although everyone seems all hyped up about web 2.0 links, which i've never tried. I just figured if what i'm doing works, I should stick to it.
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    search engine cloaking
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  • Profile picture of the author SEODollz
    I certainly understand the sentiment behind the OP, I just don't agree. Break it down, what are we talking about: protecting adult businessmen/women from flushing their businesses down the toilet. If you own a business, if you are in business, then please protect your business by doing your due diligence. None of us can expect as grown ups that anyone is going to care as much about our business/company/financials as we ourselves do.

    There is no hand holding in grown up business.
    There are no handouts in grown up business.
    There are no shortcuts or excuses that will get any of us effortlessly to the top of the mountain.

    There ARE bad people out there that don't care what happens to your business, they are making money too. Not fair? Life's not fair. This isn't about right or wrong; we can all agree that scamming is wrong, that makes you right but it doesn't make you rich. This is about taking personal responsibility for your destiny. Stuff happens but we make a lot of our "luck" by our choices.

    So do your homework. Use common sense and discretion. Don't take anything at face value, the information is out there so you can only blame yourself if you succumb to that "get rich quick" pitch. This isn't some big covered up conspiracy, there is a flood of information out there for those who seek it.

    I know this is going to probably irk some people, not my intention. But what happened to the concept of "survival of the fittest"? If you don't know how to manage your money, if you don't know how to be in business.... then you won't be for long. Tough love, if you lose your shirt on the internet you could have lost it just as easily on the stock market, in a pyramid scam or by sending all your money to that Egyptian heiress. Be smart, be safe, I'm rooting for everyone.
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    • Profile picture of the author dvduval
      Originally Posted by SEODollz View Post

      I certainly understand the sentiment behind the OP, I just don't agree. Break it down, what are we talking about: protecting adult businessmen/women from flushing their businesses down the toilet. If you own a business, if you are in business, then please protect your business by doing your due diligence. None of us can expect as grown ups that anyone is going to care as much about our business/company/financials as we ourselves do.

      There is no hand holding in grown up business.
      There are no handouts in grown up business.
      There are no shortcuts or excuses that will get any of us effortlessly to the top of the mountain.

      There ARE bad people out there that don't care what happens to your business, they are making money too. Not fair? Life's not fair. This isn't about right or wrong; we can all agree that scamming is wrong, that makes you right but it doesn't make you rich. This is about taking personal responsibility for your destiny. Stuff happens but we make a lot of our "luck" by our choices.

      So do your homework. Use common sense and discretion. Don't take anything at face value, the information is out there so you can only blame yourself if you succumb to that "get rich quick" pitch. This isn't some big covered up conspiracy, there is a flood of information out there for those who seek it.

      I know this is going to probably irk some people, not my intention. But what happened to the concept of "survival of the fittest"? If you don't know how to manage your money, if you don't know how to be in business.... then you won't be for long. Tough love, if you lose your shirt on the internet you could have lost it just as easily on the stock market, in a pyramid scam or by sending all your money to that Egyptian heiress. Be smart, be safe, I'm rooting for everyone.
      Yes, but this is a community of people with moderators. Some of the people can see the bad stuff, while there are new people who are still learning. Part of the spirit hear is to help people. I don't think this is a community bent of ripping people off is it?
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