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Unread 16th February 2013, 03:08 PM   #51
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Default Re: I am WORN OUT and tired of SEO

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Originally Posted by ProSence View Post
Can you imagine how much money these sites are making:

Ezinearticles
articlesbase
goarticles
About.com
hubpages
squidoo
ehow

?
Probably next to nothing. Do you even see them in the SEPS anymore? Because I don't. Google has a BIG PROBLEM going forward... lots of angry guys with a lot of VC cash behind them are pissed over this, not just the little guys. Don't be surprised if there are some high profile lawsuits going forward.

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Originally Posted by nik0 View Post
If it often takes you months to get one quality link then you're definitely doing something very wrong.

Why don't you build your own network or utilize others by buying blog posts from them. Plenty available that will help to rank your site, just avoid the 400 blog posts for $50 in tier 1.
You have NO IDEA what you are talking about! Sorry.

In my niche, one of my competitors was bought out by CBS so he routinely gets linked to by CBS. Another of my competitors was backed by $150m in venture funding and they basically throw their weight around and spam the SERPS AND Google News with no penalty, so they are often linked too "naturally." When I go and try to reach out to people in this niche 9/10 times I am IGNORED no matter now polite I am or how many compliments I send them, or how good my infographics are. Some niches are really tight, and they don't want anyone new in to spoil their fun.

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Unread 16th February 2013, 11:14 PM   #52
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Default Re: I am WORN OUT and tired of SEO

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You have NO IDEA what you are talking about! Sorry
I'm talking about buying expired domains. Yes it won't equal a CBS site but there are decent PR6 and PR7 domains up for grab for a few thousand only. Sorry if that doesn't qualify as a quality link for you!

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Unread 17th February 2013, 03:04 PM   #53
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Default Re: I am WORN OUT and tired of SEO

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Probably next to nothing. Do you even see them in the SEPS anymore? Because I don't. Google has a BIG PROBLEM going forward... lots of angry guys with a lot of VC cash behind them are pissed over this, not just the little guys. Don't be surprised if there are some high profile lawsuits going forward.



You have NO IDEA what you are talking about! Sorry.

In my niche, one of my competitors was bought out by CBS so he routinely gets linked to by CBS. Another of my competitors was backed by $150m in venture funding and they basically throw their weight around and spam the SERPS AND Google News with no penalty, so they are often linked too "naturally." When I go and try to reach out to people in this niche 9/10 times I am IGNORED no matter now polite I am or how many compliments I send them, or how good my infographics are. Some niches are really tight, and they don't want anyone new in to spoil their fun.
All I can say is that you know your $h!t. There's way too many people full of opinions and no facts to back them up. Goes along with what one poster was recently asking. That is, are there any real experts left on here?

I've also had infographics made; and no joke, one of them took a pro 20 solid hours to make and was freakin' beautiful and useful. Problem is, when all the dust had settled, it really didn't have much impact at all. On the other hand I've also made some simple pie charts for articles that don't help me earn a penny. Of course these get shared about 20 times a week, and help me rank for keywords that are utterly worthless.

Right now I'm working on one more JV SEO deal with someone, and if it doesn't work out, I'm probably going to call it quits with the niche. At that point I'll tell everyone on here exactly which keywords to go after and how much money they can make, and watch the chaos and carnage from the stands. Either way, there are a couple more niches I'm getting into where I'll be supplying a physical product.
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Unread 17th February 2013, 03:11 PM   #54
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Default Re: I am WORN OUT and tired of SEO

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I'm talking about buying expired domains. Yes it won't equal a CBS site but there are decent PR6 and PR7 domains up for grab for a few thousand only. Sorry if that doesn't qualify as a quality link for you!
This really doesn't work in the niche, and regardless, all the hyphen-less domains are taken; I've looked. Another issue is these days high PR really doesn't mean squat. I've seen plenty of PR5, PR4 sites with absolutely no traffic and even less authority. Their back-link profiles consist of blog networks, fake social bookmarks, very crappy looking web 2.0 properties, comments on the 50 or so non-moderated blogs in the world that are inundated by 10,000 spam comments, garbage YouTube videos, spammy form profile links, and about a million other forms of spam that would take too long to list. Sites with real PR don't get sold. In this niche, if a site is earning $3,000/month, you'd have to shell out $70,000 for it, and then the risk is too great. That $70,000 would fund a LOT of great content, press releases, etc, etc, etc.
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Unread 17th February 2013, 05:14 PM   #55
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Default Re: I am WORN OUT and tired of SEO

Jordan,

I am in a moderately competitive niche where the main keywords are around 100,000 competition in market samurai. I've managed to rank really well but I've spent money roughly 19k over the last 9 months in press release packages and different tools and articles. I feel a lot of people hit a wall because they don't invest or are afraid to drop some money into their business. You have to invest some to play with the big boys of your niche, at least I had to.
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Unread 17th February 2013, 05:40 PM   #56
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Default Re: I am WORN OUT and tired of SEO

Not to come off as a jerk but I smile when I read threads like this.

Since Penguin I've noticed MUCH less competition.

And as many people pointed out here, SEO still works (how could it not...there are still 10 spots on the SERPs).

You really need to pivot and roll with the punches. If you give up every time Google changes the algo you're in the wrong business.

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Unread 17th February 2013, 05:41 PM   #57
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Default Re: I am WORN OUT and tired of SEO

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I feel a lot of people hit a wall because they don't invest or are afraid to drop some money into their business. You have to invest some to play with the big boys of your niche, at least I had to.
Breath. Of. Fresh. Air.

Dude, I'm trying to tell people you need cash to do well with SEO. The days of ranking with dirt cheap link packages are looooong gone (and aren't coming back).

Even a modest budget can set you miles ahead of most people in SEO.

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Unread 17th February 2013, 07:02 PM   #58
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Default Re: I am WORN OUT and tired of SEO

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Not to come off as a jerk but I smile when I read threads like this.

Since Penguin I've noticed MUCH less competition.

And as many people pointed out here, SEO still works (how could it not...there are still 10 spots on the SERPs).

You really need to pivot and roll with the punches. If you give up every time Google changes the algo you're in the wrong business.
You missed the entire point of this thread. The point wasn't to give up whenever Foogle changes their aglo, but rather to see how, and if, anyone else is actually achieving success in hyper competitive markets. Plus, if you would have read the entire thread, you would have known that a LOT has been tried and many ideas have been thrown around.

I'm well aware that the competition has seriously decreased all over the web, especially after the algo changes started for real in 2011, but I haven't dealt with any direct competition in 3 years. I'm up against the big boys and their $2 million budgets, which you evidently don't play with, otherwise your conceited "not to come off as a jerk" comment wouldn't have felt necessary.

Plus, spending money isn't even talked about because it's a given. I've spent well over $30,000 on various organic traffic related projects.
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Unread 18th February 2013, 12:11 AM   #59
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Default Re: I am WORN OUT and tired of SEO

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Originally Posted by jordanwarrior View Post
This really doesn't work in the niche, and regardless, all the hyphen-less domains are taken; I've looked. Another issue is these days high PR really doesn't mean squat. I've seen plenty of PR5, PR4 sites with absolutely no traffic and even less authority. Their back-link profiles consist of blog networks, fake social bookmarks, very crappy looking web 2.0 properties, comments on the 50 or so non-moderated blogs in the world that are inundated by 10,000 spam comments, garbage YouTube videos, spammy form profile links, and about a million other forms of spam that would take too long to list. Sites with real PR don't get sold. In this niche, if a site is earning $3,000/month, you'd have to shell out $70,000 for it, and then the risk is too great. That $70,000 would fund a LOT of great content, press releases, etc, etc, etc.
Again you proof that you have no clue as there are 1000's of domains expiring every single week that ARE solid PR4/PR5's and what not, with 100% natural back link profiles. I'm not sure where you find these domains but I buy them from my broker and it's very sporadic that he has a spammed domain in his list.

High PR links work in every niche, some niches just require a LOT more of them and if you can't compete for the main keywords cause of your budget then go for the combination of words (long tails). As you're in the employment niche you can easily target keywords like "job + city" and make a site with 10.000+ pages, one for each city, by using high quality super-ultra-mega spun content on word/sentence/paragraph level and rotation of paragraphs to fill up the pages (yes that still works also for website content). Then buy about 100 PR4+ domains that you point at your site and voila, you'll be ranking for 1000's of long tails. Proven method and total investment around $20.000,- if you know what you're doing (as in knowing how to automate things and how to setup the content/structure for the 100 PR4 domains cause otherwise it's just not doable).

Anyway, if this doesn't help you then nothing will help I'm afraid and if you don't have the budget, as you mentioned you might going back to a normal job again, then it's game over! Life is a bitch.

As about sites with real PR don't get sold, maybe yes maybe no, but the expired domains are not being sold, they are auctioned cause the owner let them expire. Why would he do so? Cause it often are sites from non profit organizations, for example sites that host an upcoming large event, and those organizations don't give a shit about the domain when the event has passed. Not to mention an unlimited amount of companies that went broke where the owners have totally other things to think about then their PR3+ domain that expires. Often these people don't even know the value of their domain.

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Unread 18th February 2013, 12:45 AM   #60
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Default Re: I am WORN OUT and tired of SEO

Me too. It is the most unpredictable of IM things. If it can be of some help I can show you what is helping me now. I am in no ways to sell you anything or give you aff links just ask me and will show you what is getting me some sales almost passively.

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Unread 18th February 2013, 06:21 AM   #61
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Default Re: I am WORN OUT and tired of SEO

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but rather to see how, and if, anyone else is actually achieving success in hyper competitive markets.
Obviously people are still achieving success, even in hyper-competitive markets.

Last I checked there were still 10 spots in the SERPs. So yes, the same amount of people are having success, just different people.

I didn't mean to come off as arrogant. It wasn't a personal attack or anything like that.

But I'm obviously happy about the way SEO has gone over the last year or so: less competition and better margins for people that do white hat stuff...as is anyone who finds that their market suddenly has less competitors.

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Unread 18th February 2013, 11:05 AM   #62
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Default Re: I am WORN OUT and tired of SEO

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Look at the WSO sellers. Emulate them and take advantage of newbies. That's how ppl earn $$$ online these days. Either hire someone to write a program for you or release a "ground breaking" eBook.
Yep,
anything goes these days... people are desperate and buy anything that has pretty packaging (sales copy).
WSO-creation is probably some of the easiest money to be made online. Product launches also create long term income if you build a list on the side.
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Unread 18th February 2013, 11:09 AM   #63
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Default Re: I am WORN OUT and tired of SEO

I agree!!

I am also tired of SEO for now, that's why I think RicanAdFunds for giving me another online business, at first it's an extra for me but now it became massive income.

again thanks RAF
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Unread 18th February 2013, 03:52 PM   #64
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Default Re: I am WORN OUT and tired of SEO

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I agree!!

I am also tired of SEO for now, that's why I think RicanAdFunds for giving me another online business, at first it's an extra for me but now it became massive income.

again thanks RAF
You're a hero.
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Unread 18th February 2013, 04:10 PM   #65
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Default Re: I am WORN OUT and tired of SEO

You are wasting time fighting a war against people who have machine guns and tanks while you are using bows and arrows... what do you expect will happen?

let me fix the title of this thread: I am WORN OUT and tired of being in the wrong NICHE

they are far, far to many keywords and niches that will reward you handsomely as well, do not fret
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Unread 18th February 2013, 04:45 PM   #66
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Default Re: I am WORN OUT and tired of SEO

You really have to be thick skinned to be an SEO'er. All the testing split testing (like any other IM business actually) can be tedious, but unlike other IM methods you are trying to outwit an algorithm that is constantly evolving.

I try to think of it like battling a virus. It may evolve to be immune to your current techniques and methods, but soon if you're savvy enough you should discover that thing (or many things) that lets you stay ahead of it so it's not much of a worry [for the moment].

But it will always evolve, and if you want to keep with it *DUH* you have to evolve too. Patience and smart/hard work are massive virtues for SEO. It's definitely not for everyone
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Unread 18th February 2013, 08:40 PM   #67
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I'm up against the big boys and their $2 million budgets
There's your problem. Solution? Find another niche.
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Unread 18th February 2013, 09:38 PM   #68
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Default Re: I am WORN OUT and tired of SEO

I would agree that the niche might be too competitive. All great advice here.
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Unread 18th February 2013, 10:21 PM   #69
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Default Re: I am WORN OUT and tired of SEO

Diverse, non-spam link sources + High PR, incontext, relevant backlinks + Social signals

If the above backlink formula can't help then I don't think there is more to it.

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Unread 21st February 2013, 12:07 AM   #70
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Default Re: I am WORN OUT and tired of SEO

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Jordan,

I am in a moderately competitive niche where the main keywords are around 100,000 competition in market samurai. I've managed to rank really well but I've spent money roughly 19k over the last 9 months in press release packages and different tools and articles. I feel a lot of people hit a wall because they don't invest or are afraid to drop some money into their business. You have to invest some to play with the big boys of your niche, at least I had to.
Very wrong IMO.

You really think people arent ranking due to
a lack of trying?

Another poster tried to talk about high PR domains like they were some secret too LOL

EVERY niche is different. You think Google doesnt know that random PR7 that just switched IP addresses and only links to "authority" sites and some RANDOM related site isnt owned by the same person?

Im more so under the theory that certain rankings are "locked" algorithmically and have data to prove it but I see there arent enough real SEOs here to share that kind of data (no PMs please I will not respond)

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Unread 21st February 2013, 12:21 AM   #71
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Default Re: I am WORN OUT and tired of SEO

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Not to come off as a jerk but I smile when I read threads like this.

Since Penguin I've noticed MUCH less competition.

And as many people pointed out here, SEO still works (how could it not...there are still 10 spots on the SERPs).

You really need to pivot and roll with the punches. If you give up every time Google changes the algo you're in the wrong business.
Last time I checked we were talking about REAL marketing practices that leads to SEO... not crappy link packages and private networks.

Like I and apparently Jordan said, some of us are competing in SERPs with over a half billion in VC $$$ between Google News and the 1-10 SERPS.

So no, throwing money around won't work. My competitive advantage is knowing what type of links, etc rank the best algorithmically but as long as Google changes the rules every 3 months basically that advantage is gone. My competitors can blow $1m on a marketing campaign to get "natural links" really a whole different game when youre in the big niches...

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Unread 21st February 2013, 06:10 AM   #72
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Default Re: I am WORN OUT and tired of SEO

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Last time I checked we were talking about REAL marketing practices that leads to SEO... not crappy link packages and private networks.

Like I and apparently Jordan said, some of us are competing in SERPs with over a half billion in VC $$$ between Google News and the 1-10 SERPS.

So no, throwing money around won't work. My competitive advantage is knowing what type of links, etc rank the best algorithmically but as long as Google changes the rules every 3 months basically that advantage is gone. My competitors can blow $1m on a marketing campaign to get "natural links" really a whole different game when youre in the big niches...
I don't remember saying what niche I was in. You're assuming I'm competing for keywords like "toaster reviews". I'm not.

Anyway, I agree that we can get a competitive advantage due to our field-tested SEO experience. As with any business, the big guys have a huge advantage in terms of resources.

But small businesses have the advantage of being creative, nimble and less risk averse. That's how companies like Apple and Google came out of nowhere to beat billion dollar competitors.

SEO isn't any different.

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Unread 22nd February 2013, 12:31 PM   #73
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Default Re: I am WORN OUT and tired of SEO

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Originally Posted by Duy Nguyen View Post
Diverse, non-spam link sources + High PR, incontext, relevant backlinks + Social signals

If the above backlink formula can't help then I don't think there is more to it.
With all due respect, you can't distill it down that far. You can't eliminate site quality factors, largely content.

You said your content was amazing, but honestly, is it awesome for the search engines, or awesome for your end user? What would someone from google who is manually reviewing your site have to say?

If the bulk of your content was built in 2009-2012, I would throw this up to you as a distinct possibility since prevailing "wisdom" at the time was still focused on search engines rather than the searchers.

I don't mean to come across too simplistic here, but after reading this entire thread, that's the question that remains for me- who is your content for? Do you have a clear understanding of the buyer's perspective, and then design your content to take advantage of the buyer's thinking process?

I guess my assumption is that you've accounted for the aforementioned formula, so that leaves your site as being the problem. And if you still think your content is amazing, then I can only sympathize with ya, and that's worth a whole lot of nuthin'

Hope you get it worked out
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Unread 22nd February 2013, 01:02 PM   #74
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Default Re: I am WORN OUT and tired of SEO

Here's something to motivate you. This is THE conversation from the Movie "National Treasure"

Ben: You know, Thomas Edison tried and failed nearly 2,000 times to develop the carbonized cotton-thread filament for the incandescent light bulb.
Riley: Edison?
Ben: And when asked about it, he said "I didn't fail; I found out 2,000 ways how not to make a light bulb," but he only needed one way to make it work. [sets down a book in front of Riley] The Preservation Room. Enjoy. Go ahead. Do you know what the preservation room is for?
Riley: Delicious jams and jellies?
Ben: No, that's where they clean, repair, and maintain all the documents and their storage housings when they are not on display of in the vault. Now, when the case needs work, they take it out of the vault and directly across the hall and into the Preservation Room. The best time for us or Ian to steal it would be during the gala this weekend, when the guards are distracted by the VIPs upstairs; but we'll make our way to the Preservation Room, where there is much less security.
Riley: Well...uh...Ian...Preservation, hmmmm. Well, this might be possible.
Ben: It might.

I hope this will cheer you up... Besides there are few words in here that can be of use in online business, seo, IM, CPA etc..

Good luck to your decision man.

Contact me for any SEO Services you need I'm glad to be of your service.
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Unread 22nd February 2013, 01:45 PM   #75
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Default Re: I am WORN OUT and tired of SEO

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You are wasting time fighting a war against people who have machine guns and tanks while you are using bows and arrows... what do you expect will happen?

let me fix the title of this thread: I am WORN OUT and tired of being in the wrong NICHE

they are far, far to many keywords and niches that will reward you handsomely as well, do not fret
If you master in competitive niche then you are a perfect SEO!

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Unread 22nd February 2013, 01:49 PM   #76
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Default Re: I am WORN OUT and tired of SEO

keep your head up dude. You just haven't found your scheme yet. You're like a rock band in the 60's right now, you know you have to stick to it.

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Unread 22nd February 2013, 03:38 PM   #77
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Default Re: I am WORN OUT and tired of SEO

sounds like you have a "kitchen nitemares" situation, if you don't watch or know the show, celebrated chef (his food isn't that good btw, i've paid hundreds for a soso meal in his ny restaurant, never again) goes to distressed restaurants and fixes them. The problem is most of the owners "stick to their old ways of working" "it worked before why not now?" is usually the problem.
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Unread 24th February 2013, 03:48 PM   #78
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Default Re: I am WORN OUT and tired of SEO

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keep your head up dude. You just haven't found your scheme yet. You're like a rock band in the 60's right now, you know you have to stick to it.
That's pretty good. LMAO.
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Unread 24th February 2013, 03:54 PM   #79
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Default Re: I am WORN OUT and tired of SEO

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Originally Posted by PvPGuy View Post
With all due respect, you can't distill it down that far. You can't eliminate site quality factors, largely content.

You said your content was amazing, but honestly, is it awesome for the search engines, or awesome for your end user? What would someone from google who is manually reviewing your site have to say?

If the bulk of your content was built in 2009-2012, I would throw this up to you as a distinct possibility since prevailing "wisdom" at the time was still focused on search engines rather than the searchers.

I don't mean to come across too simplistic here, but after reading this entire thread, that's the question that remains for me- who is your content for? Do you have a clear understanding of the buyer's perspective, and then design your content to take advantage of the buyer's thinking process?

I guess my assumption is that you've accounted for the aforementioned formula, so that leaves your site as being the problem. And if you still think your content is amazing, then I can only sympathize with ya, and that's worth a whole lot of nuthin'

Hope you get it worked out
I know what you're saying, but my content has never been written for search engines, but rather to provide solutions and tips to the end user. The whole point was to build up trust.
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Unread 24th February 2013, 04:05 PM   #80
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Default Re: I am WORN OUT and tired of SEO

This is going to sound reeeeeeeeeeeeeeally dumb, but a big part of the problem has finally been figured out. I just had another SEO consultant look at one of the sites. He has worked on some big brand websites with >10,000,000 uniques/month and actually knows what he's talking about. I grilled him for about an hour and was impressed for once.

Anyway, get this, we were doing some deep back-link analysis, and it appears the last SEO I worked with went and did EXACTLY what he had literally spent hours telling me NOT to do, the B@$t@rd. I know this because the keywords used to spam the living daylights out of my site were the same ones he had talked about going after in the beginning. I also know this was his work because they were unique to that particular effort.

Well, I really don't know what to say, except that I guess I know where to start at. What absolutely boggles my mind is that this guy was recommended by a very reputable SEO who's work I can actually verify. Plus, we spent a great deal of time talking over strategies and the kind of BS he pulled was exactly what we both agreed on avoiding by any means possible.

I learned a valuable lesson, and I hope you folks get something out of this as well.
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