Comments on our company's SEO strategy?

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Hi all,
I'm new to the forum, and just wondered if anyone had any opinions on our company's current SEO strategy.

We're a bricks and mortar print company based in the UK and have been in business for about 8 years. We started to outsource SEO as soon as we had a basic website and it has been the single biggest factor in the 25% a year growth that the company has enjoyed, even through the current recession and credit crunch. We moved into new premises a year ago and now have 8 staff on the books. Our e-commerce site is excellent and is where most of our work comes from. We get around 500 visits a day, and this has increased over the last 5 years.

Around Christmas this year we started to look into the possibility of doing the SEO for ourselves, doing as much research and reading as possible into this vast and complex subject. This coincided with the Google update of 17th Jan that hit us quite hard for several of our key search terms. Our SEO company wanted to ignore this and keep building links (and taking our money) despite the fact that we knew that this was exactly what was causing the problem in the first place. We cancelled our contract with them and had an independent report done as to the cause of the drop. it turned out that it was mainly the metrics part of the update. The bounce rate for our print calculator pages was really high - people visit these pages, get a price quickly (it's easy to use!) and then click off. While this wasn't a problem - the page was actually doing a good job - Google saw this as a spam content indicator and slapped us accordingly. We changed this so that there is an intermediate landing page that requires a click through, and the bounce rate has quartered overnight. just recently the rankings seem to have stabilised and we are kind of back where we were.

As we'd cancelled the contract with our SEO company, we decided to grasp the nettle and begin to do our own at this time. We looked at SeNuke, and many of the strategies based around this, along with the Blogseries software. In the end we settled on our own blog network. We now have 15 Wordpress blogs, all hosted on a server that allows each blog to be on an IP address that is C class diverse, or better. This, and other methods, should mean that Google can't know that they all belong to us. Some of the domains are brand new, and some are bought in with higher pagerank. Some of tghe sites are just blogs, but quite a few are actually fully functioning e-commerce themes (they actually work!) and they are all well designed. We like to think that they would pass manual inspection.

We currently have a spreadsheet of search terms that we are working on. Every day I write 4x 400word articles that are posted to the blogs, spread out over time, and mixing up which blogs get done each day. We also do 2 blog posts each day from Repost. Each of the 4x 400 word blogs are well written and informative and uses no spinning or articlebuilder type stuff - I'm a decent writer and know about print, so I find this pretty easy. Each blog has 2 keyword links that point to specific pages on our site, along with one branding link that points to our homepage. It works out roughly that each blog gets a new post every 2 and a half days. We are looking to move this to six written and 9 repost blogs each day. The reposts don't have any links to us at all - they are there to dilute the links.

We are also doing some remedial work on our site to sort out H1 tags and a few other bits and pieces that need fixing, but this has not held us back too much up to now. Still, it will get done. We use SeNuke on the 15 blog sites. The homepage of our website, and the internal pages, also get an SeNuke evey couple of weeks.

We can tell from the keywords that we're working on (ones that have never been optimised for before) that the strategy is working, but we wondered what the rest of the experts on here thought to what we have in place so far.

I welcome your comments!

Jim
#comments #company #seo #strategy
  • Profile picture of the author Icematikx
    If you've bought 15x PR0 domains, then their crap and won't do anything for your site. I wouldn't waste your time. Only invest in a PBN (private blog network) when your sites at least have some decent metrics.

    Never use SENuke
    Never use Scrapebox (for AUTOMATED comment links)
    Never use an automated program
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    Just got back from a #BrightonSEO. I was given room 404 in the hotel I stayed at. Couldn’t find it anywhere!

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    • Profile picture of the author jimcroisdale
      Thanks for your comments!

      Regarding the PBN, are you saying that the blogs will be of little use because they have low PR, or don't get any actual traffic, or both?

      Would higher PR blogs (3-4 maybe) be more effective, even if they themselves weren't getting any traffic?

      I take on board your points about automated linkbuilding methods.

      Regards,

      Jim
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  • Profile picture of the author dejaone
    To recover from Panda/Penguin update, you need to get links from real websites: the sites with good PR, strong traffic rank and solid social signals.
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  • Profile picture of the author Backlinko
    Jim,

    You were smart to build your own blog network. However, I didn't catch how niche-relevant the blogs are.

    I've build quite a few networks and I've found that making each one VERY relevant to your niche does wonders.

    Did you say you repost the same content to all the blogs in your network? I hope I read that wrong...

    That's a HUGE footpring for big G.

    And hosting on class-C IPs may not be enough diversity.

    I'm nuts about diversifying EVERYTHING in my network, including:

    -Hosts
    -Domain registrars
    -www. vs. non-www homepage URLs
    -Timezones
    -Author names

    Considering the money and effort you're putting into your network I'd take the time to do these extra things to reduce the odds of your network getting hit (it's rare for a small network but it does happen).
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  • Profile picture of the author IprovideSEO
    I would recommend trying premium Press Releases to increase the credibility of the links coming into your website. They have really helped out my websites
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  • Profile picture of the author kaytav
    I guess you need the right strategy to post in this forum, no offense.
    Such huge blocks of paragraphs made me sleepy. Make it interesting for people to read and understand.
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    • Profile picture of the author jimcroisdale
      dejaone - It seems that we didn't really get hit by Panda/Penguin per se - our traffic and rankings have gone pretty much back to normal and we have had it confirmed by Google that there is no penalty against the site.

      Backlinko - Each of our 14 blogs is print related, so relevancy is excellent I would say. They are mostly with one host, but have c-class or better IP diversity (mostly B I think). The sites are all registered using fake names taken from Generate a Random Name - Fake Name Generator and the servers are all renamed, all as per Mexiken's (from the SeNuke forum) plan.

      We have a facebook page with 2500 followers so do quite a bit on there - we try to add pictures of designs we are working on every day.

      Apart from upping the number of blogs and backlinks per month, what is the best additional work to be looking at? Thankyou for all your replies so far.
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      • Profile picture of the author Backlinko
        Originally Posted by jimcroisdale View Post

        Backlinko - Each of our 14 blogs is print related, so relevancy is excellent I would say. They are mostly with one host, but have c-class or better IP diversity (mostly B I think). The sites are all registered using fake names taken from Generate a Random Name - Fake Name Generator and the servers are all renamed, all as per Mexiken's (from the SeNuke forum) plan.
        Sounds like you're doing great.

        The only other thing I'd recommend is scaling up by adding more sites to the network and building links to your network sites.
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        • Profile picture of the author jimcroisdale
          I appreciate that one IP address is not any better than another by itself.

          It is my understanding though, that the 'more different' the IPs of your blogsites are, the less of a footprint they will leave.

          If my blog IPs are only the same in the A and B parts (sometimes only the A), and are all different in the C and D sections, is this not better than having only the D section different on each?
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          • Profile picture of the author nik0
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            Originally Posted by jimcroisdale View Post

            I appreciate that one IP address is not any better than another by itself.

            It is my understanding though, that the 'more different' the IPs of your blogsites are, the less of a footprint they will leave.

            If my blog IPs are only the same in the A and B parts (sometimes only the A), and are all different in the C and D sections, is this not better than having only the D section different on each?
            Exactly, just ignore KPmedia, he is pretty known for repeating the same crap each time that someone mentions different IP's or C-class.

            A better option instead of C-class is different shared hostings, that way you get a full unique IP and on a different server location.

            Btw I don't really understand why you keep on posting to these private blog network sites, as you mentioned you only have 3 links on each site, then why post all this additional content or do you put links in each new blog post that you create?

            If you really put in that much time then it's better to work with 2 networks, one that you keep on posting to and that you try to rank for the same kw's, you can use new domains for that. And in the back end a network of high PR domains to rank the sites that you post to each time.

            That way you create true relevance and those links are worth a lot.
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            • Profile picture of the author jimcroisdale
              Yes, each blog has three links in it that point to us, and several more that point to high PR authority sites. I do 4 blogs a day, so that's 240 links a month.

              We also do 2 blogs a day using Contact Support blogs with no links to us at all, just to dilute the links a little.

              This is all spread tactically across 14 blogs.

              We're looking at increasing this in April to 6 blogs a day, and also upping the number of blog sites as well.
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              • Profile picture of the author nik0
                Banned
                Originally Posted by jimcroisdale View Post

                Yes, each blog has three links in it that point to us, and several more that point to high PR authority sites. I do 4 blogs a day, so that's 240 links a month.

                We also do 2 blog posts a day using Contact Support blogs with no links to us at all, just to dilute the links a little.

                This is all spread tactically across 14 blogs.

                We're looking at increasing this in April to 6 blogs a day, and also upping the number of blog sites as well.
                How does that work out to be posting from the same domains each time?
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                • Profile picture of the author jimcroisdale
                  I'm sorry but I don't really understand the question. Can you clarify a little?
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                  • Profile picture of the author nik0
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                    Originally Posted by jimcroisdale View Post

                    I'm sorry but I don't really understand the question. Can you clarify a little?
                    You say you have 15 wordpress blogs and post in total 240 times per month to those 15, or do I understand it wrong and are you setting up 4 new WP sites each day?

                    So in case of posting 240 times to 15 blogs you get links from the same set of 15 blogs each time, so my question was: "How does that work out for you, in terms of rankings?".
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                    • Profile picture of the author jimcroisdale
                      240 total links a month, from 80 blog posts, across 14 blog sites.

                      It working well!

                      We've tested it using keywords that we've never tried to optimise for before, so we can see how quickly we get them into the top 100, and then how quickly they move up the rankings from there.

                      In April we will start on terms that we have in maybe 10th place, and see if we can get them into the top three.

                      That's where the real difference will be made for us.
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                      • Profile picture of the author nik0
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                        Originally Posted by jimcroisdale View Post

                        240 total links a month, from 80 blog posts, across 14 blog sites.

                        It working well!

                        We've tested it using keywords that we've never tried to optimise for before, so we can see how quickly we get them into the top 100, and then how quickly they move up the rankings from there.

                        In April we will start on terms that we have in maybe 10th place, and see if we can get them into the top three.

                        That's where the real difference will be made for us.
                        Thanks for sharing, I never tried it like that.

                        But I do know someone who uses a similar approach where he sets up a high PR domain with just as many pages as his money site has, and links from each page from the high PR one to the money site and that works pretty well for him as well. Although it's obvious not very natural that 1 site keeps on linking back to another site, but it works and that's all what counts.
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                        • Profile picture of the author jimcroisdale
                          We have to keep it natural and low risk.

                          A Google slap could mean much less traffic and lost jobs at the company.

                          This is to be avoided!

                          Do you think the way we are doing it is low risk?
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                          • Profile picture of the author nik0
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                            Originally Posted by jimcroisdale View Post

                            We have to keep it natural and low risk.

                            A Google slap could mean much less traffic and lost jobs at the company.

                            This is to be avoided!

                            Do you think the way we are doing it is low risk?
                            Linking out so many times from the same domains is obvious far from natural and it is quite risky.

                            The person I talked about who does a similar thing is prepared to take the risk though. It costs him like $20k+ and brings in $10k+/month so it's worth it for him as it often lasts a lot longer then that.

                            I guess Mike is right that if you have a real company that you have to be a bit more carefull.
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                            • Profile picture of the author jimcroisdale
                              We are increasing the number of hand written blogs to 6 a day, but also increasing the number of blogs with no links or just links to other companies.

                              We are also upping the number of total blog sites to 20, so things will be spread out more.

                              We are hoping that this will dilute things enough to stay out of any danger zone.
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                              • Profile picture of the author jimcroisdale
                                kpmedia - I am listening to you all, believe me.

                                I am fairly new to this as you can see, and I know how forums work. I would never discount ANYTHING from someone who can string a decent sentence together, and all three of you guys obviously can.

                                You all must have your reasons for feeling the way that you do about this subject, and I am here to learn from you all.

                                In time, I may make up my own mind.
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                                • Profile picture of the author Lanx
                                  Originally Posted by jimcroisdale View Post

                                  kpmedia - I am listening to you all, believe me.

                                  I am fairly new to this as you can see, and I know how forums work. I would never discount ANYTHING from someone who can string a decent sentence together, and all three of you guys obviously can.

                                  You all must have your reasons for feeling the way that you do about this subject, and I am here to learn from you all.

                                  In time, I may make up my own mind.
                                  please note that seo is subjective, and for this matter, since it's the only search engine that matters, seo for google. what i mean by subjective is that for all purposes each and everyone one of us is making our best 1740's era scientific method guesstimate to achieving our desired results... i mean it really is that bad.

                                  i mean just think back to the 1700's the only real scientists were hobbyiests, these were men (and one or two ladies) who were so well off in terms of money and education that they decided to pursue "science" in the hopes of making a cool discovery and getting their name published in the paper.

                                  that's what we're all dealing with here, "he said/she said", it get's worse when we throw in "guru's" in the mix and it get's doubly worse when we throw in automation tools, and then we start calling ppl names like "you whitehatter!", white/black/grey, it doesn't matter google hates all kinds of hats.

                                  in short we're all trying to mold a pile of poo, and even with that, there are hundreds of comments on how to do that.
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                            • Profile picture of the author dennis09
                              Originally Posted by nik0 View Post

                              Linking out so many times from the same domains is obvious far from natural and it is quite risky.

                              I wouldn't go so far as to say it looks unnatural. Unless of course that domain is only linking out to the same money site over and over again. While analyzing domains i'm willing to bet a limb that you've seen domains with multiple links from different pages on the same site. If you have links from other sources as well then this actually looks more natural IMO.

                              As for the OP, if you only have that one set of domains then you may be better off linking to other 1st tier properties or internal linking to posts on the domain that already link to your money site.

                              p.s. And ignore kpmedia, you'll end up banging your head against the wall trying to argue with these folks. They're so experienced and successful already that you can't tell em a thing. :rolleyes:
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                              • Profile picture of the author nik0
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                                Originally Posted by dennis09 View Post

                                I wouldn't go so far as to say it looks unnatural. Unless of course that domain is only linking out to the same money site over and over again. While analyzing domains i'm willing to bet a limb that you've seen domains with multiple links from different pages on the same site. If you have links from other sources as well then this actually looks more natural IMO.
                                Perhaps if you take affiliate sites into account.

                                Seriously, 50% of the links from the same domains point to his domain, and he keeps on adding more and more. You still want to say that's natural? I think you misread my post as I can't imagine you would say such thing.

                                As I said earlier I know people who do this and who are quite successful with it but they are prepared to ditch all the invested time and money. Churn & burn on a high level I would call it.
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                                • Profile picture of the author dennis09
                                  Originally Posted by nik0 View Post

                                  Perhaps if you take affiliate sites into account.

                                  Seriously, 50% of the links from the same domains point to his domain, and he keeps on adding more and more. You still want to say that's natural? I think you misread my post as I can't imagine you would say such thing.

                                  As I said earlier I know people who do this and who are quite successful with it but they are prepared to ditch all the invested time and money. Churn & burn on a high level I would call it.
                                  I think you may have misread my post as well, or perhaps I wasnt clear enough. Multiple links from the same domain do not hurt, unless of course those are the only links you have or they make up a significant portion of your backlink profile (what you're refering to). If I have 200 links and 10-20 of those are from twitter, or any other domain, then no that's not unnatural.

                                  To protect your network sites you should be aiming for outbound link diversity and not using them to link out to only your money site. This is why I suggested linking out to other 1st and even 2nd tier properties so that you can acheive diversity while still promoting your main money site. Internal linking works surprisingly well here too, but of course theres quite a bit more involved and it deserves a thread of it's own.
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                                  • Profile picture of the author nik0
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                                    Originally Posted by dennis09 View Post

                                    I think you may have misread my post as well, or perhaps I wasnt clear enough. Multiple links from the same domain do not hurt, unless of course those are the only links you have or they make up a significant portion of your backlink profile (what you're refering to). If I have 200 links and 10-20 of those are from twitter, or any other domain, then no that's not unnatural.

                                    To protect your network sites you should be aiming for outbound link diversity and not using them to link out to only your money site. This is why I suggested linking out to other 1st and even 2nd tier properties so that you can acheive diversity while still promoting your main money site. Internal linking works surprisingly well here too, but of course theres quite a bit more involved and it deserves a thread of it's own.
                                    Twitter is no where close an example to compare, as 20 links from Twitter is just 0.000001% of all the links at Twitter. At his blog 50% of the links are pointed at him, small difference Besides that it's indeed quite natural to have 20 or few 100 links from Twitter when your site is popular cause Twitter is used by so many, same as with other popular web2.0's, social media sites. I have about 100 sites from PRweb pointed at my site, but again they submitted millions of press releases so 100 is just a tiny chunk.

                                    Just using the other 50% of links and point them at other domains or tiers doesn't make it more natural at all.

                                    Btw I didn't say it would hurt, I said it's highly unnatural so it most probably won't pass a manual inspection. The guy who did it before has had such inspection and he could say good bye to his rankings.
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                                    • Profile picture of the author dennis09
                                      Originally Posted by nik0 View Post

                                      Twitter is no where close an example to compare, as 20 links from Twitter is just 0.000001% of all the links at Twitter. At his blog 50% of the links are pointed at him, small difference Besides that it's indeed quite natural to have 20 or few 100 links from Twitter when your site is popular cause Twitter is used by so many, same as with other popular web2.0's, social media sites. I have about 100 sites from PRweb pointed at my site, but again they submitted millions of press releases so 100 is just a tiny chunk.

                                      Just using the other 50% of links and point them at other domains or tiers doesn't make it more natural at all.

                                      Btw I didn't say it would hurt, I said it's highly unnatural so it most probably won't pass a manual inspection. The guy who did it before has had such inspection and he could say good bye to his rankings.

                                      I said Twitter, or any other domain. He would be much better off with a split along the lines of:

                                      30% Directly to money site (Homepage, Category Pages, Keyword Posts)
                                      40% To second or even third tier sites w/ low obls
                                      20% To other relevant niche authority sites

                                      The exact percentages you use would simply depend on how aggressive or risky you want to be. My understanding is that he's going to add additional content to dilute his direct links, so he may as well squeeze some value out of it.

                                      I don't see there being an issue with a manual review as long as he puts some effort into those network sites and not just slap a basic theme up and start publishing. Actually turn them into real sites. There are plenty of authority sites with sister networks that have the same basic setup. There's even a diagram on full control about it but of course I won't post that here.

                                      As for the money site, he needs inbound links from other places as well to dilute those.
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                                      • Profile picture of the author nik0
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                                        Originally Posted by dennis09 View Post

                                        I said Twitter, or any other domain. He would be much better off with a split along the lines of:

                                        30% Directly to money site (Homepage, Category Pages, Keyword Posts)
                                        40% To second or even third tier sites w/ low obls
                                        20% To other relevant niche authority sites

                                        The exact percentages you use would simply depend on how aggressive or risky you want to be. My understanding is that he's going to add additional content to dilute his direct links, so he may as well squeeze some value out of it.

                                        I don't see there being an issue with a manual review as long as he puts some effort into those network sites and not just slap a basic theme up and start publishing. Actually turn them into real sites. There are plenty of authority sites with sister networks that have the same basic setup. There's even a diagram on full control about it but of course I won't post that here.

                                        As for the money site, he needs inbound links from other places as well to dilute those.
                                        Lol this is the last post I make about this subject cause you really don't seem to get it.

                                        He is building those blogs out to dilute the links to the same site, but in fact nothing gets diluted as he keeps on adding new links in half of the blog posts each time to the same domain.

                                        So after a year such private blog network blog of him will have 1000 posts, with (according to your idea) 300 posts pointed directly at 1 single website of him, 400 posts at his tier 2's and 200 links to other sites.

                                        Seriously show me one single site that is doing it like that. Then multiply that by factor 30 as he has 30 of such blogs, HUGE FOOTPRINT,and far from natural.

                                        Now you start to compare it to Dan's tip, but Dan NEVER said that he would keep on posting on the same blog and pointing them at the same site. He only said that you can use the same high PR site to strengthen your tiers. That's all.

                                        If he wants to dilute those 400 links all pointed at the same domain, he would need another 400.000 posts pointing at totally different sites to dilute it. Good luck with that, imo not really worth the time or cost of content, better buy some more domains and host them on different plans I would say. Unless he is ok with churn & burn strategies.
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                                        • Profile picture of the author dennis09
                                          Originally Posted by nik0 View Post

                                          Lol this is the last post I make about this subject cause you really don't seem to get it.

                                          He is building those blogs out to dilute the links to the same site, but in fact nothing gets diluted as he keeps on adding new links in half of the blog posts each time to the same domain.

                                          So after a year such private blog network blog of him will have 1000 posts, with (according to your idea) 300 posts pointed directly at 1 single website of him, 400 posts at his tier 2's and 200 links to other sites.

                                          Seriously show me one single site that is doing it like that. Then multiply that by factor 30 as he has 30 of such blogs, HUGE FOOTPRINT,and far from natural.

                                          Now you start to compare it to Dan's tip, but Dan NEVER said that he would keep on posting
                                          on the same blog and pointing them at the same site. He only said that you can use the same high PR site to strengthen your tiers. That's all.

                                          If he wants to dilute those 400 links all pointed at the same domain, he would need another 400.000 posts pointing at totally different sites to dilute it. Good luck with that, imo not really worth the time or cost of content, better buy some more domains and host them on different plans I would say. Unless he is ok with churn & burn strategies.
                                          Nik0 what the heck are you babling on about? I'll give you the benefit of the doubt here and say that maybe you're just in a bad mood and feel like arguing. Whenever you're done attacking your strawman go back and see that I never suggested for him to continually fill his blog with links to infinity. You're arguing against a point that I never made. If you can quote me on that then I will gladly entertain you, otherwise all I hear is a bunch of misdirected hurf blurf. If it makes you feel better about yourself then you are welcome to continue, but I'm actually in agreement with you.

                                          The tips that I gave him are nothing new at all and is indeed exactly what Dan suggested. The goal is to maximize the value of each domain before moving on to setting up more sites which is what he said he's looking to do here. There's no way you've done any significant domain analysis if you can't admit that most sites, even big authorities, have multiple links from duplicate root domains (in addition to other links of course). Mike even listed a few if you care to do the research. From my experience its more rare to see a site that naturally has 100 links from 100 different root domains than the former.

                                          My first suggestion actually would have been to outsource his SEO to a reputable provider because this type of link building gets quite complicated. Unfortunately he already stated he doesn't want to do that. You are more than welcome to argue with the sky if it makes you happy though.
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                                          • Profile picture of the author nik0
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                                            Originally Posted by dennis09 View Post

                                            The tips that I gave him are nothing new at all and is indeed exactly what Dan suggested. The goal is to maximize the value of each domain before moving on to setting up more sites which is what he said he's looking to do here. There's no way you've done any significant domain analysis if you can't admit that most sites, even big authorities, have multiple links from duplicate root domains (in addition to other links of course). Mike even listed a few if you care to do the research. From my experience its more rare to see a site that naturally has 100 links from 100 different root domains than the former.

                                            My first suggestion actually would have been to outsource his SEO to a reputable provider because this type of link building gets quite complicated. Unfortunately he already stated he doesn't want to do that. You are more than welcome to argue with the sky if it makes you happy though.
                                            If you read this thread better then you would've known that it was OP's intention to keep posting till infinity. Then you kept saying that it's all natural.

                                            To quote the OP: "We are looking to move this to six written and 9 repost blogs each day."

                                            Not any signs that he was planning to slow down.

                                            Mike is talking about sitewide links, you can't compare that to a link in every other post.
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                                            • Profile picture of the author dennis09
                                              Originally Posted by nik0 View Post

                                              If you read this thread better then you would've known that it was OP's intention to keep posting till infinity. Then you kept saying that it's all natural.

                                              To quote the OP: "We are looking to move this to six written and 9 repost blogs each day."

                                              Not any signs that he was planning to slow down.

                                              Mike is talking about sitewide links, you can't compare that to a link in every other post.
                                              I know what he intended on doing which is why I suggested an alternative. I never said that his original plan was natural. I said more than once that it is natural for a site to have multiple links from the same domain provided he has other link sources as well. I even gave suggestions that he could use to minimize the footprint on both his money and network sites.

                                              And if you read this thread better then you'd know that Mike never said a thing about sitewide links. Not once:

                                              Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post


                                              There are some who knowing nothing about the industry claim that sites do not rank by bought links or that companies should not leverage their other properties to advertise or position their sistersites. Its a LOAD OF MALARKEY. Disney links back and forth from their other sites (ESPN ABC and a host of others). Adobe links with followed links to their partner sites etc etc. Will google penalize the smaller sites more? OF course seen it over and over. JC penney was caught out and out spamming a few years back and got a 90 day slap on the hand while smaller businesses have been sent to siberia for ever. So yes you do have to be careful and you do need to make it less apparent that you are linking to your own sister sites - but thats just in many cases to level the playing field (if trying to rank something that isn't any good then thats another issue).
                                              Once again i'm not really sure what you're still here babbling on about :confused:.
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                                              • Profile picture of the author nik0
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                                                Originally Posted by dennis09 View Post

                                                Once again i'm not really sure what you're still here babbling on about :confused:.
                                                Mike didn't mention sitewide links indeed but if you ever visited those type of huge sites then you KNOW or at least should know that it are sitewide links in the footer or header.

                                                Besides that your suggestions to dilute his ratio with linking out to other sites or to tiers is still as worthless as it can be when OP keeps on adding posts to his site, and you mentioned nothing about that so who is babbling here?

                                                Not me, case closed. Actually I have no clue why I even keep replying to you as you already showed in other threads with other people how stubborn you can be when you're just plain wrong.
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                                                • Profile picture of the author dennis09
                                                  Originally Posted by nik0 View Post

                                                  Mike didn't mention sitewide links indeed but if you ever visited those type of huge sites then you KNOW or at least should know that it are sitewide links in the footer or header.
                                                  lol So...if noone brought it up...ah nevermind :rolleyes:

                                                  Originally Posted by nik0 View Post

                                                  Besides that your suggestions to dilute his ratio with linking out to other sites or to tiers is still as worthless as it can be when OP keeps on adding posts to his site, and you mentioned nothing about that so who is babbling here?
                                                  Yep, you're still babbling about nothing. I never suggested for him to keep posting to infinity and actually cautioned against it. So your point is... :rolleyes:

                                                  Originally Posted by nik0 View Post

                                                  Not me, case closed. Actually I have no clue why I even keep replying to you as you already showed in other threads with other people how stubborn you can be when you're just plain wrong.
                                                  Trust me I don't know why you keep replying to me either or what point you're trying to make. Stubborn, wrong, other threads blah blah blah.
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                                                  • Profile picture of the author nik0
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                                                    Originally Posted by dennis09 View Post

                                                    lol So...if noone brought it up...ah nevermind :rolleyes:



                                                    Yep, you're still babbling about nothing. I never suggested for him to keep posting to infinity and actually cautioned against it. So your point is... :rolleyes:



                                                    Trust me I don't know why you keep replying to me either or what point you're trying to make. Stubborn, wrong, other threads blah blah blah.
                                                    You sure give a nice twist to all this, I'll give you that!
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            • Profile picture of the author Gareth Mailer
              Originally Posted by nik0 View Post

              A better option instead of C-class is different shared hostings
              This point should be hammered into everyone - much better for minimising footprint.
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          • Profile picture of the author kpmedia
            Originally Posted by jimcroisdale View Post

            I appreciate that one IP address is not any better than another by itself. It is my understanding though, that the 'more different' the IPs of your blogsites are, the less of a footprint they will leave. If my blog IPs are only the same in the A and B parts (sometimes only the A), and are all different in the C and D sections, is this not better than having only the D section different on each?
            There's no such thing as a "C class" IP (or A,B,D), and there's no "foot print" for search engines. Such trickery is unnecessary. There are many other ways sites can be seen as related, if Google et al really want to do so.

            The only ones who repeat this nonsense are these two boobs; nik0 and Mike. It's like a religion for these guys. They're still living in 2003, but it's 2013. Listen to them if you want, but that's just not how things work anymore, and hasn't been in many years. You're wasting time, and probably pissing away money on hosting.

            The key is developing good content, having good on-site SEO, and getting out there to market yourself. Not all this horsefeathers.

            I feel bad for you, getting wrapped up by these myths. It's sad that some people still repeat them.
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  • Profile picture of the author kpmedia
    You've been reading too much myth.

    For example, there's no such thing as a "C class" IP, and IPs have no effect on search engines.
    All those blogs will do is rob you of time that could be better spent on your site.
    Be careful what you read online. A lot of folks don't know their @ss from a paper bag.
    You're wasting your time on the wrong things.
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    • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
      Originally Posted by kpmedia View Post

      You've been reading too much myth.

      For example, there's no such thing as a "C class" IP, and IPs have no effect on search engines.
      IF you tell us your birthday we might pitch together and buy a second string for your one string fiddle.


      You're wasting your time on the wrong things.
      right. Instead he should just entirely ignore that his time so far has led to profitability and go to your Kevin Costner Field of Dreams "if you build it they will come" philosophy that has never worked in business.
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  • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
    Originally Posted by jimcroisdale View Post

    We now have 15 Wordpress blogs, all hosted on a server that allows each blog to be on an IP address that is C class diverse, or better. This, and other methods, should mean that Google can't know that they all belong to us.

    Thats not correct. a manual inspector MIGHT see separate class C IP and figure they are in diverse locations but it does not mean that they can't know that they all belong to you. I have recommended for over a year not to diversify on Class C IP alone because of this. You should never have your entire network on one server or even with one service provider. None of us know what Google looks at even the affiliate hosting list providers in here claiming Class C IP as no value

    Some of the domains are brand new, and some are bought in with higher pagerank. Some of tghe sites are just blogs, but quite a few are actually fully functioning e-commerce themes (they actually work!) and they are all well designed. We like to think that they would pass manual inspection.
    If so then you should keep them but given they are new and low in authority you might consider acquiring some domains that could boost them (not just send to your money site - what I call network support sites - other call second/third tier)


    Jim I would caution you one one thing in regard to getting advice from this board. 90%+ of the people and providers here have little or no experience dealing with the concerns of a real business with real employees. As a brick and mortar you can't just pack up and create a new brand name, new domain and site. Where if their sites get associated with spam, tank in Google etc they can just buy a domain and install wordpress it would be your ruin.

    So be very picky with what you listen to here. Much of it is not suited for your business.
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  • Profile picture of the author ShivJaiswaL
    great job and this goes to my reading list.
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  • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
    Jim I am going to resist responding to nonsense so as not to destroy your thread. There are people who run around in forums hurt because of past disagreements (and being exposed for misleading the public in this case) and thats what is beginning to happen here.

    Please see my first post in this thread. I was the one who stated you would want more than class C IP addresses and that I have for over a year recommended that Network owners use multiple hosts. SO this is not an issue of class C IPs. I think that makes it apparent how false the accusations being made by some fake unbiased host list provider are.

    There are some who knowing nothing about the industry claim that sites do not rank by bought links or that companies should not leverage their other properties to advertise or position their sistersites. Its a LOAD OF MALARKEY. Disney links back and forth from their other sites (ESPN ABC and a host of others). Adobe links with followed links to their partner sites etc etc. Will google penalize the smaller sites more? OF course seen it over and over. JC penney was caught out and out spamming a few years back and got a 90 day slap on the hand while smaller businesses have been sent to siberia for ever. So yes you do have to be careful and you do need to make it less apparent that you are linking to your own sister sites - but thats just in many cases to level the playing field (if trying to rank something that isn't any good then thats another issue).

    Anyone telling you that networks were only effective up to 2003 is a SEO novice and can and should be safely ignored but thats your call.
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    • Profile picture of the author jimcroisdale
      Well, we can see that the networks are working so we have no reason to stop.

      Logically though, I can also understand that IP diversity must also be a good thing. If SEOMajestic (or any other SEO site) can tell how many links you have, and how many different sites they come from, it's not much of a leap to assume that Google can tell how many different IPs they come from.

      I have spoken with my business partner today and we are looking to increase the number of blogsites on our network to 30, while keeping the number of blogs that we create specifically for us the same. This will half the number of blogs that are posted on each blog per week.

      We could of course fill the rest of the blogs with reposts and other things, that have links going out to other random places, but is this not as ideal point to start selling links on our network? Is this what other people do? There doesn't seem much point in creating filler posts just to dilute the links when we could be selling them to other companies in similar niches. We would only work within relevant areas, so all links for our customers would be just as effective as the ones we make for ourselves.

      Jim
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      • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
        Originally Posted by jimcroisdale View Post


        Logically though, I can also understand that IP diversity must also be a good thing. If SEOMajestic (or any other SEO site) can tell how many links you have, and how many different sites they come from, it's not much of a leap to assume that Google can tell how many different IPs they come from.
        The counter point to that is that Google potentially has other ways to track where a site is hosted from and if they are on the same server. The safest way for Google to not tell they are on the same server is for them to not be on the same server
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  • Profile picture of the author RossIT
    by the sounds of it your company is doing pretty good, and since you are generating most of your business through your website, why jepordise it? if your doing as well as you say then surely money shouldn't be a problem. if you cock up your website you can find yourself removed from google searches where would that leave you? i would personally leave it to the professionals
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  • Profile picture of the author CaesarSEO
    What kind of blogs are these?
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    • Profile picture of the author jimcroisdale
      Design/Print/Webdesign at the moment.
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  • Profile picture of the author charidemos
    Press Releases are great for gaining authority in Google's eyes. I recently ordered a professional press release for a site of mine and the citation flow of my site went up by dozens of points!
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  • Profile picture of the author danielph
    You need to built more backlinks, and also different, not only for same source
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  • Profile picture of the author rooze
    I'm curious as to how you perceive the value of multiple links coming from the same domain or small network of domains?
    Also, are you familiar with the concept of a 'link wheel'? Would you say that what you are creating is essentially a hub, where your main site is being fed from a network of satellite sites, and that your strategy is to increase the probability of being flagged by continuing to add links back to your hub site from this series of satellite sites?
    I think there are ways to do this and to remain under the radar, but I'm not convinced that with your level of knowledge (per your own comments) you have what's needed (no offense). Personally, I'd step back from what you're doing, or at least scale it down significantly, then look at ways of increasing the diversity of your link portfolio, staying some distance from guest blogging and blog posting. Hopefully, if, and more likely when you do get hit, you'll have sufficient link diversity to minimize any penalty.
    I've seen sites get hit for doing what you're doing. Usually it starts by loosing SERP's on your main 2-word search terms. Quite often you can roll along with the traffic from long-tail search terms but it's hard to recover your main keywords once you've been penalized.
    I don't want to add to any Google-induced paranoia. But diversifying is never a bad idea. It's easy to see something working then take it to the extreme, to the point where it backfires on you.
    It's just an opinion, though I can support it with live experience examples.

    Good luck

    Rooze
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    • Profile picture of the author kpmedia
      Originally Posted by rooze View Post

      Also, are you familiar with the concept of a 'link wheel'? Would you say that what you are creating is essentially a hub, where your main site is being fed from a network of satellite sites, and that your strategy is to increase the probability of being flagged by continuing to add links back to your hub site from this series of satellite sites?
      I think there are ways to do this and to remain under the radar, but I'm not convinced that with your level of knowledge (per your own comments) you have what's needed (no offense). Personally, I'd step back from what you're doing, or at least scale it down significantly, then look at ways of increasing the diversity of your link portfolio, staying some distance from guest blogging and blog posting. Hopefully, if, and more likely when you do get hit, you'll have sufficient link diversity to minimize any penalty.
      I've seen sites get hit for doing what you're doing. Usually it starts by loosing SERP's on your main 2-word search terms. Quite often you can roll along with the traffic from long-tail search terms but it's hard to recover your main keywords once you've been penalized.
      That's what Panda was about.
      It removed crap sites and "content mills" that existed purely for linking and ads.

      Trivia: Those were often using the "C class" method too. Note that IP made zero difference there.
      That's because there's no such thing.
      It's literally pissing away money for no reason. Good hosts do not offer such things (snake oil).
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  • Profile picture of the author Hansons
    What I have felt is if you work on your site actively then it would help of course, there is no doubt to it really, you have to focus on content creation mainly, fresh content of course.
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  • Profile picture of the author IMdeaming
    Do you know what types of links they were building? Im asking because outsourcing SEO really isn't a bad way to go. There are more productive things you could be doing with all of your extra time, which im assuming is worth a lot more than $10 pet hour.
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  • Profile picture of the author RedShifted
    It depends. But my honest opinion is, most business owners have no business doing SEO, unless SEO is their business.

    Ignorance caused me to waste a lot of time trying to rank my own sites. And yes I learned a ton in the process. But in the end, the result was a lot of wasted time. Did I profit? Yes. Did I make some good money for myself? Yes. But I could have made A LOT MORE if I made up my mind sooner and stuck 100% to outsourcing.

    I think its cool to try and learn as many things as you can. I think to an extent its crucial to do. To expand your horizons and try things. However, your #1 competitor, if you're in a competitive niche, is probably using an expert who knows their shiat. So if you're not an expert, you need to find one. I really think its that simple.

    Stick to what you know and what comes natural to you. If SEO doesn't come natural, if results come slowly, don't let the process go on for too long. You'll eat up more resources than you're aware of, just because you THINK you're saving money. You'll lose motivation. The competition will swallow you.

    You NEED to place all the benefits/risks on a scale, and take a cold, hard, objective look at the facts/data. Don't make emotional decisions. Let the numbers tell you waht to do. My data was showing me that I was always making more profit, when someone else was doing the backlinks. I do all onpage/content myself, but for building links, I always have someone else do it now.

    -Red
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    • Profile picture of the author Liamseo
      Hi all, I work with Jim & help write articles for the 15 blogs sites. Looks like this has turned into a big argument!

      Just to clarify are you saying we are better to create 15 sites, each with 1 blog about our company, containing 3 links to the site in each (so a total of 45 links), then build tier 2 sites linking to the 15 blog sites to try to build the PR / Value of the links?
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  • Profile picture of the author thenewseo
    I think your strategy is quite desperate - 400 worded articles, IPs, Servers.. and new stealth blog sites.. sounds like 2008 kinda seo to me.. all this will not work. You have to begin with building your unique "voice", put the consumer first and foremost in mind, then develop strategies around that..
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    • Profile picture of the author Backlinko
      Originally Posted by thenewseo View Post

      I think your strategy is quite desperate - 400 worded articles, IPs, Servers.. and new stealth blog sites.. sounds like 2008 kinda seo to me.. all this will not work. You have to begin with building your unique "voice", put the consumer first and foremost in mind, then develop strategies around that..
      I cringe when I read this stuff.

      Although SEO has changed A LOT since 2008...the core of the algorithm is the same.

      And I can tell you that NONE of the algorithm has anything to do with "building a unique voice" or "putting the consumer first".

      Those are great ideals to aspire to, and should be part of your marketing strategy, but they have nothing to do with SEO.
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  • Profile picture of the author PerformanceMan
    Truthfully I cringe reading a thread like this.

    A 'real business' with bricks and mortar expense should not be counting on search engine traffic like this.

    The guy said people will lose jobs if they get 'slapped.' Sounds like a totally underfunded company hoping for a dream to save them.

    All it takes is one algo change - or even slight alteration - to put the hurt on a company like this.
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    • Profile picture of the author dennis09
      Originally Posted by PerformanceMan View Post

      Truthfully I cringe reading a thread like this.

      A 'real business' with bricks and mortar expense should not be counting on search engine traffic like this.

      The guy said people will lose jobs if they get 'slapped.' Sounds like a totally underfunded company hoping for a dream to save them.

      All it takes is one algo change - or even slight alteration - to put the hurt on a company like this.
      Definitely agree. But i'd add that any kind of linkbuilding carries with it a certain degree of risk. Even "whitehat" linkbuilding can lead to a penalty.

      If the rewards are worth the risk though then all you can do is take steps to minimize it. And of course always have a contingency plan.
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    • Profile picture of the author Backlinko
      Originally Posted by PerformanceMan View Post


      A 'real business' with bricks and mortar expense should not be counting on search engine traffic like this.
      That's true.

      But he never said he's relying on SEO.

      It's just a large part of his strategy.

      If you look at other forms of marketing, they come with risks:
      • Billboard laws/rules/regulations can change overnight
      • Your radio station can suddenly up their rates...killing your ROI
      • A store next to yours could start a major construction project...killing your foot traffic
      You get the idea.

      I agree that no business (online or brick and mortar) should rely on one source of marketing.

      But as long as he's diversifying there's no reason he can't leverage SEO as a large part of his marketing efforts.

      Even with the risks, SEO ROI can be incredible.
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      • Profile picture of the author PerformanceMan
        Originally Posted by Backlinko View Post

        That's true.

        But he never said he's relying on SEO.

        It's just a large part of his strategy.
        Of course he did. He said that the primary factor for this 'company's' amazing growth was their website and search engine traffic.

        They have 8 employees and a 'new location' and their primary strategy is to build a 'private blog network.' They have at least two 'employees' in this thread alone. These people are cobbling together articles and using 'SENuke' to 'build backlinks.'

        I'm confident I didn't misread the thread.

        What I was saying is: I've seen this all before. Google makes a lot of ago changes every year. They are a third party and can't be controlled. Any business that is paying the bills off of organic traffic is only one algo update away from a disaster.
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        • Profile picture of the author Backlinko
          Originally Posted by PerformanceMan View Post


          What I was saying is: I've seen this all before. Google makes a lot of ago changes every year. They are a third party and can't be controlled. Any business that is paying the bills off of organic traffic is only one algo update away from a disaster.
          I agree with that. SEO is a tool and we don't own or control what Google does.

          But I do think that as long as you diversify (in the sense that you can survive a major update) there's no reason SEO can't be part of your marketing budget (even a large part of it).
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          • Profile picture of the author PerformanceMan
            Originally Posted by Backlinko View Post

            I agree with that. SEO is a tool and we don't own or control what Google does.

            But I do think that as long as you diversify (in the sense that you can survive a major update) there's no reason SEO can't be part of your marketing budget (even a large part of it).
            Nobody's arguing with that - I've always been a big fan of SEO and use it and sell it to clients. I just got the impression this company isn't using a 'well rounded' marketing plan at all. They're 'writing articles' for backlinks and using automated backlink tools to build tiered links.

            It won't be long until a competitor tires of seeing their pages in the SERPs and reports them. If they get a manual penalty, they're out of business.

            If I were running that company, I'd fire one or two of the article writers and put that money into PPC and social media marketing to offset potential losses.

            But that's just me
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    • Profile picture of the author kpmedia
      Originally Posted by thenewseo View Post

      I think your strategy is quite desperate - 400 worded articles, IPs, Servers.. and new stealth blog sites.. sounds like 2008 kinda seo to me.. all this will not work. You have to begin with building your unique "voice", put the consumer first and foremost in mind, then develop strategies around that..
      Originally Posted by PerformanceMan View Post

      Truthfully I cringe reading a thread like this. A 'real business' with bricks and mortar expense should not be counting on search engine traffic like this. The guy said people will lose jobs if they get 'slapped.' Sounds like a totally underfunded company hoping for a dream to save them. All it takes is one algo change - or even slight alteration - to put the hurt on a company like this.
      Ah, yes ... finally. Wisdom.

      There was far too much noise and nonsense on page 1 of this thread.
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  • Profile picture of the author dennis09
    I find it hilarious that someone from the company just replied with a question and yet everyone goes on "babbling" about this and that. Truth is, starting a business carries a significant amount of risk no matter what the advertising medium. But if nobody had the balls to see past those risks then we wouldn't have a lot of the conveiences that we take for granted today. That's why we create S.W.O.T. matrixes in order to identify and weigh the risks. I take it this company has already done this work, and weighed the alternatives, and still see the value in SEO. And I'd have to agree with this decision. Comparex to the expense and effectiveness of billboard/print/tv advertising SEO is a gold mine. Especially in low to medium competition markets.

    As for your question Liam, if you are buying decent expired domains then you shouldn't need to boost those blogs. You'd be better off sending those extra links directly to your money site. This will aldo help to diversify your incoming links so that you have more than just your network linking to you. If you guys are set on using those new domains then yes you'll need links to boost them, but stay away from spam links even at this low of a tier.

    One post with 3 links will be just fine as well but make sure you randomize the post topic. I.e. all of them do not have to be about your company per se, but rather a relevant niche article that happens to reference your money site.

    On top of this do not make every single one of your blog posts homepage articles. Switch it up a bit but make sure the post is linked to from the homepage which I'm assuming has the most PR. This way the PR flows through and your money site doesn't end up with an excessive ratio of homepage links. Hope that made sense. If you need more advice than this then you'd be better off with a paid consultation to further refine your strategy. I know Mike offers one and quite frankly he's probably the only person I'd trust on the subject matter, not saying everyone else is unqualified of course.

    Edit: Typos everywhere but im posting from my phone atm.
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