So tired of the "I rank #1 for..."

15 years ago

I know where you are coming from but the real point is this ...

I would rather sell to, as you put it, 'one lonely spirit from hell' than sell nothing to a 1,000 visitors from heaven who buy nothing.

Just because a keyword has little competition and is 'easy' to rank for does not mean that it cannot be a very worthwhile and profitable keyword to SEO.

It also depends on your profit margin. I make £1,000-£5,000 per sale in my market and some of my best SEO keywords have less than 500,000 competing sites. I targetted multiple low competing keywords specifically on the basis that if I got one sale per month from each I would do VERY nicely.

That tactic has worked spectacularly ... so think again before you automatically assume that 'easy' 1st page SEO keywords are for show only!

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Kevin Lam

15 years ago

Even keywords that Google says they don't have enough data on? Those are the ones I'm talking about. Keywords that get less than 10 searches a month. If so, I'll have to call BS on that, but I'm sure that's not the case with you.

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Mickm

15 years ago

Yup I know where you guys are coming from.. it's an old dirty trick that some SEO's like to use.. it's just playing on people's ignorance and speaking as an SEO with over a decade of experience, you're not alone in your fustration.. many in the SEO industry hate those kind of tricks.

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raydp

15 years ago

I agree, there's too much of this.

Whenever I see WSOs of that nature i tend to make a comment.

I know it's not strictly within the rules but I'm not prepared to buy crap just so I can warn the unsuspecting!

What really annoys me is to see the glowing testimonials some of these cons receive from Warriors who do know better.

The sad part is you'll find testimonials from others who proudly endorse the product because it got them a #1 slot for "Mongolian yak's milk recipes" and suchlike.

Ray

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Kevin Lam

15 years ago

Originally Posted by raydp

What really annoys me is to see the glowing testimonials some of these cons receive from Warriors who do know better.

The sad part is you'll find testimonials from others who proudly endorse the product because it got them a #1 slot for "Mongolian yak's milk recipes" and suchlike.

Ray

That's hilarious! That's an awesome keyword phrase. I think I want to go for that one now!

Seriously though, sooner or later, people will finally understand all this stuff and see how much of a crook and cheater they are. I don't care about ranking number 1 out of 12,000,000 "competitors" when NO ONE is searching for the keyword phrase.

The fact of the matter is, the more words used in the key phrase the more competition! Duh!

Put them into quotes and it's like 50!

Btw, Ray, I just did a search for "Mongolian yak's milk recipes" for the hell of it and this thread has already been indexed in Google, lol. So if anyone searches for it, they'll find you!

As for the glowing testimonials - I hope they wake up. Their credibility is going down the drain.

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Mickm

15 years ago

It's pretty easy (in fact the most basic cornerstone of IM) to find out if a niche or keyword is valuable.. surely these people only have a market for those who don't even have a website yet and are completely knew to IM... either way it's not a great way to start a business

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raydp

15 years ago

Hi Kevin,

Well, to hell with the ethics, I'm starting my WSO now - How I got to #1 with "Mongolian yak's milk recipes".

Oh, damnation, I dont't know if Mongolians have PayPal accounts.

The strange thing is that introducing the word "Yak" seems to give a comedic quality to any number of things. If I'd said "Elephants milk" it wouldn't have worked!

Ray

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Mickm

15 years ago

I'm sensing that you guys have issues with SEO's who sell WSO's..

*backs outta the room slowly*

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Kevin Lam

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Mickm

I'm sensing that you guys have issues with SEO's who sell WSO's..

*backs outta the room slowly*

LOL, no, I haven't even looked in the WSO about SEO's that offer stuff and make claims as I have said. I'm just saying people in general that does this. It's just full of BS.

Originally Posted by raydp

We're talking about never searched for terms not "lesser searched keywords". Long tail is one thing "no tail" is something else entirely.

Ray

EXACTLY! I'm talking about keywords that Google returns with "not enough data" for how many searches that phrase gets each month. I've seen as low as 12 register so I can only guess that if it's 10 or less that it is marked as "not enough data". It might even be less than that, I'm not sure. I haven't tried to research that.

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Mickm

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Kevin Lam

LOL, no, I haven't even looked in the WSO about SEO's that offer stuff and make claims as I have said. I'm just saying people in general that does this. It's just full of BS.

PHEW! That's a relief!

Yep there's some shaddy ones in every industry, maybe there's more cowboys in SEO because it's easy to hide behind a computer (or so they think).

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Kevin Lam

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Mickm

PHEW! That's a relief!

Yep there's some shaddy ones in every industry, maybe there's more cowboys in SEO because it's easy to hide behind a computer (or so they think).

Aint that the truth.

Originally Posted by Zeus66

I just registered mongolianyaksmilkrecipes.com. You fools waited too long! HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

Hahahahahaha, it was funny enough that Ray even mentioned it, but now that made me laugh even harder. You're awesome.

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anuj291

15 years ago

U r right... but just keep in mind there is no point trying for a keyword that has 1 billion hits.. u will never get on top(atleast ones with less money and resouces)
So its better to get in top for lesser searched keywords

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raydp

15 years ago

We're talking about never searched for terms not "lesser searched keywords". Long tail is one thing "no tail" is something else entirely.

Ray

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Zeus66

15 years ago

I just registered mongolianyaksmilkrecipes.com. You fools waited too long! HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

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Daniel Molano

15 years ago

I would have to agree with you Kevin, that is so much BS.

If the Google Keyword Tool doesn't display high searches for the ranking keyword it is useless. Unless it is a current trend of course, which Google won't diplay until a month after or so.

You would have to be ranking high for a keyword like "business consulting" to be profitable. But no one in their right mind would sell that method, especially if they can pull it off in 1 month 100% white-hat.

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Kevin Lam

15 years ago

Well, there are certain keywords out there that get only 50 searches a month that would yield a high return. Those are the ones people could be gloating about and I wouldn't care because that's good money.

I just hope a lot of the less experienced website owners understand that it's all a ploy to trick them in believing that they really know what they're talking about. Before you know it, these little guys are gonna go out and rank for dozens and hundreds of keywords that no one is searching for and then they continue to wonder why they're aren't getting any more visitors.

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simplyjessie

15 years ago

I totally agree with you. Number 1 ranking position is nothing if there's not even a single soul on God's green Earth is searching for that keyword.

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Kevin Lam

15 years ago

Ah crap... I just HAD to go to the WSO forum and look to see who's offering SEO products.

First one I looked at claims to be #1 for "free tools and tips"... a phrase that doesn't have enough data for Google to display. I mean, who the heck searches for "free tools and tips?" Free tools and tips to what??? Gotta be kidding me.

"today's jesus"... really? Really, really? Come on! I bet if I mention "today's jesus" here and even "today's jesus" there this thread would rank high for it as well. People are being fooled left and right these days and right here in our lovely forum.

To those who don't know, search for "today's jesus" in quotations. You'll then see how many people are competing for that search phrase. Let's see... as of 10:50 PM CST today, there's 551 competing pages. Now do this next search and you're going to be "WTF!"

Type in

intitle:"today's jesus"

SIXTY-FIVE competing pages. Ohhhhh, this is big money maker and PLENTY of people are searching for it... not!

Am I jealous of these folks that con others into thinking that it's easy? No, just tired of them doing it to honest and hard working individuals who don't know any better. They obviously have no shame.

If they would just present it as a course on SEO, fine. That's great information for people to learn, but to use it as a selling point... GTFOH! I haven't cursed much, but I sure have been doing it lately.

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Scripteen

15 years ago

Well said buddy. I understand your frustration.

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raydp

15 years ago

Aha! That is one of the WSOs I had in mind. It's a con. Look at the number of "low post count" posters, but also, look at the more experienced Warriors who seem to have purchased without complaint!

I got involved in this one as you can see from page three of the thread: http://www.warriorforum.com/warrior-...one-day-3.html I received a PM, basically asking me to make complaints via PM:

"so that I can respond without affecting other people's view of my product that may not understand the details of the topics we're covering."

In other words, don't get in the way of my attempts to hoodwink the inexperienced.

I do feel that there should be a way of a WSO being suspended in cases like this, where there is doubt about a product, pending independant assessment. In the meantime, it's a case of "caveat emptor". Unfortunately, hungry newcomers don't get the significance of a warning in the thread, they seem to read the sales letter and jump in with a purchase or a question.

I've noticed that posts such as the one I made often get a response from the seller, but rarely from another Warrior either endorsing or contesting my take on it.

Ray

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Red_Virus

15 years ago

I think "I am ranking #1" has become more of an ego statement now.

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Smokey_Joe

15 years ago

That could be an idea: I am ranking #1 for the phrase "I am ranking #1". Hmm. Might need time to think it over.

In fact, the concerns that you raise, Kevin, are really legitimate. It's disgusting to see people use some lame deceptive claims that are designed to hit those who just can't know unless they face it.

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Kevin Lam

15 years ago

Thanks for the support in this, guys.

Ray<<< I was trying not to be too obvious about it, but yeah, that's the one I'm talking about. I just felt a little bad because he peeped in here in post #5, 9 and 11 as if he supports this. And when I said I haven't even looked in the WSO he agreed that are a lot of "shaddy people" in #15. Didn't know one of those WSO was his and it just so happened to be the first one I looked at. I haven't gone back to look because I'll just shake my head in disgust.

I agree with the suspension, but it's nearly impossible. That would mean every WSO must be approved prior to being listed. Allen and the gang don't have the time and manpower to do that. It's just something we'll all have to deal with. I'm not the type to snatch food from a person's mouth, that is why I didn't confront him or anyone else in their own WSO. I will, however, debate it and make it apparent in threads like this so the less experienced will know the truth.

Red_Virus<<< Must be. There's a lot of egotistically e-jits (that's what I call them, slang for idiots) out there that are ripping people off. I hope this thread keeps growing to build awareness.

Joe<<< Good luck with that approach. And yeah, it's very disgusting. I'd rather that not happen, but I know it's going on everyday.

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raydp

15 years ago

Hi Kevin, #5, #9, #11 & #15 is different from the one in my second paragraph, but the principle is the same.

Re suspension, I just wondered if it were possible for a WSO to be "reviewed" by mods if a number of complaints were made. I suppose the danger is spurious complaints from competetors.

Oh well, back to "caveat emptor".

Ray

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Kevin Lam

15 years ago

Originally Posted by raydp

Hi Kevin, #5, #9, #11 & #15 is different from the one in my second paragraph, but the principle is the same.

Re suspension, I just wondered if it were possible for a WSO to be "reviewed" by mods if a number of complaints were made. I suppose the danger is spurious complaints from competetors.

Oh well, back to "caveat emptor".

Ray

LOL, oops. They both started with a "M" and I forgot to check back. I feel bad now. Sorry about that Mickm!

Yeah, it's hard to say, but it's certainly a valid reason to bring up such a case to the mods.

Originally Posted by Li Weng

So ranking number 1 with what sort of competition would
you consider impressive?

Keep in mind, in some cases it's not only about competition,
it's also about keyword popularity.

If keyword has little competition, but is getting decent search
volume, then I don't see why ranking number 1 for it wouldn't
be impressive.

Li, you must have missed what is being said here. Our primary concern is of those who strut about keywords that no one searches for. It's not that we're not impressed by them ranking #1 for keywords that have 8 million "competitors". It's just that having that "competition" is irrelevant, regardless HOW big that competition is, when NO ONE is searching for it. Do you get it now?

Originally Posted by Colin Parker

There are only two things that determine online business success - 1. generating leads (SEO & PPC) and 2. selling to those leads (website conversion).

This thread proves yet again - albeit in a different way - that 80% of all IM's and 'guru' advice focuses on issues regarding generating leads.

This balance IMO is all wrong.

You do not make a penny generating leads - you only make money if you make sales from those leads.

This is so obvious ... but all too often it is forgotten.

You could rank #1 for a keyword generating 10,000 visits a day but if you get there by focusing solely on SEO and ignore tracking, testing and improving your website conversion all you have proven is ... you are good at SEO and lousy at making money!

If I wanted to evaluate how good an SEO was I would want to see not only only his ranking achievements but his site conversion also - because one without the other is IMO irrelevant.

For those who would say that once you have top rankings you can THEN concentrate on conversion I would say - you have simply wasted the sales opportunities during the weeks or months it took to get #1 position.

Plus ... the required changes to the site may be so drastic that you lose your ranking!

I get your point. The goal is to build traffic and convert the traffic - that's the goal of any business and profession. It doesn't matter if you can bring in a million people to you site and not a single person converts into a buyer. It's a waste of time.

I agree whole-heartedly that people should have their tracking in place and have a high converting website (good copy, good navigation, good layout for visitors) FIRST before trying to bring traffic. This is exactly what I tell clients: I refuse to send traffic to your site until your website is up to par and ready to receive traffic.

There is NO POINT sending traffic to a website that is incomplete or incapable of tracking the results (good or bad) and converting the traffic. There are websites out there making thousands a day with less than 100 visitors a day! So traffic is not the issue. It's secondary.

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Li Weng

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Kevin Lam

Li, you must have missed what is being said here. Our primary concern is of those who strut about keywords that no one searches for. It's not that we're not impressed by them ranking #1 for keywords that have 8 million "competitors". It's just that having that "competition" is irrelevant, regardless HOW big that competition is, when NO ONE is searching for it. Do you get it now?

My bad, I missed some of the discussion above.
I see what you're getting at.

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Li Weng

15 years ago

So ranking number 1 with what sort of competition would
you consider impressive?

Keep in mind, in some cases it's not only about competition,
it's also about keyword popularity.

If keyword has little competition, but is getting decent search
volume, then I don't see why ranking number 1 for it wouldn't
be impressive.

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Mr_Julian_S

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Li Weng

So ranking number 1 with what sort of competition would
you consider impressive?

Keep in mind, in some cases it's not only about competition,
it's also about keyword popularity.

If keyword has little competition, but is getting decent search
volume, then I don't see why ranking number 1 for it wouldn't
be impressive.

The main goal of doing Search Engine Optimization (SEO) is to gain targeted organic traffic that will more likely convert into customers, but as well people like to do SEO as they want to bring visitors to their blog or website which they are monetizing in one or another way.

But what happens if your website or blog is in a really competitive niche and the keywords that would bring you most of the traffic are so hard to obtain first position due to lack of budged or simply the return on investment (ROI).

So its better to traget less competitive keywords wihich drive a decent traffic to your site initially and also has a good conversion rate.

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Colin Parker 15 years ago

There are only two things that determine online business success - 1. generating leads (SEO & PPC) and 2. selling to those leads (website conversion).

This thread proves yet again - albeit in a different way - that 80% of all IM's and 'guru' advice focuses on issues regarding generating leads.

This balance IMO is all wrong.

You do not make a penny generating leads - you only make money if you make sales from those leads.

This is so obvious ... but all too often it is forgotten.

You could rank #1 for a keyword generating 10,000 visits a day but if you get there by focusing solely on SEO and ignore tracking, testing and improving your website conversion all you have proven is ... you are good at SEO and lousy at making money!

If I wanted to evaluate how good an SEO was I would want to see not only only his ranking achievements but his site conversion also - because one without the other is IMO irrelevant.

For those who would say that once you have top rankings you can THEN concentrate on conversion I would say - you have simply wasted the sales opportunities during the weeks or months it took to get #1 position.

Plus ... the required changes to the site may be so drastic that you lose your ranking!
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So tired of the "I rank #1 for..."

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