If I can't rank my sites I will rank someone else's site and do a victory lap.

28 replies
  • SEO
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I saw it years back with article directories like Ezine. Then some people started to do it with web 2.0s and squidoo etc. Now the rage is youtube videos.

Okay I get that you can rank on youtube faster (ignoring the very obvious point that YOU are not really ranking a site buy helping youtube.com to rank for a term)

I get that but heres what I don't get. I hear people say they are ranking a video for a term that that gets say 15,000+ searches per month and other people say WOW. NO one seems to calculate the conversion fall off.

How many people click through to anything from a youtube video (except another youtube video)? I can't seem to find any good stats on that but I would be surprised to find double digits.

But lets say its 20% which I think is being incredibly generous but maybe I am wrong. That means the traffic I get to my website. offer or whatever is divided by 5 so thats 3,000 searches per month. Even at number one you won't get all the search traffic anyway.

Wouldn't you be better ranking for a long tail with five times less traffic and getting visitors direct to a page optimized to get a conversion for what you sell? The extra benefit is you are building the visibility on your own site?

Whatever that conversion rate is you have to subtract the search traffic from that to calculate what you are really getting.

Aren't you just kidding yourself that you are ranking for a term with this or that amount of searches? Might make you feel good to see something of yours (the video not the page) on the front page but that doesn't make sales or am I missing something?
#explain #lap #rank #site #sites #victory
  • Profile picture of the author aliduncan
    Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

    How many people click through to anything from a youtube video (except another youtube video)? I can't seem to find any good stats on that but I would be surprised to find double digits.

    But lets say its 20% which I think is being incredibly generous but maybe I am wrong. That means the traffic I get to my website. offer or whatever is divided by 5 so thats 3,000 searches per month. Even at number one you won't get all the search traffic anyway.
    I think you're right with 20% being very generous.

    Obviously it depends on the quality of the video, but the thing is many people that are using this method are trying to rank crappy slideshows that they've knocked up in a few minutes and expect people to click through after watching it.
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    • Profile picture of the author Craig B
      Originally Posted by aliduncan View Post

      the thing is many people that are using this method are trying to rank crappy slideshows that they've knocked up in a few minutes and expect people to click through after watching it.
      Hold on a second, that just gave me a great idea for a WSO...:rolleyes:
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  • Profile picture of the author yukon
    Banned
    They do the same with sites like slideshare.

    Lol, slideshare only has a boat load of links/Ads/competition to siphon off any traffic generated from a ranked slideshare page. Kind of defeats the purpose of ranking anything, If your not getting the traffic, what's the point?

    Any legit site (Youtube, Slideshare, etc...) gets multiple page views from the majority of their traffic.
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  • Profile picture of the author nik0
    Banned
    Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

    NO one seems to calculate the conversion fall off.

    How many people click through to anything from a youtube video (except another youtube video)? I can't seem to find any good stats on that but I would be surprised to find double digits.

    But lets say its 20% which I think is being incredibly generous but maybe I am wrong. That means the traffic I get to my website. offer or whatever is divided by 5 so thats 3,000 searches per month. Even at number one you won't get all the search traffic anyway.

    Wouldn't you be better ranking for a long tail with five times less traffic and getting visitors direct to a page optimized to get a conversion for what you sell? The extra benefit is you are building the visibility on your own site?

    Whatever that conversion rate is you have to subtract the search traffic from that to calculate what you are really getting.

    Aren't you just kidding yourself that you are ranking for a term with this or that amount of searches? Might make you feel good to see something of yours (the video not the page) on the front page but that doesn't make sales or am I missing something?
    I think most video's should be very happy when they get a 5% CTR, and even that's on the very high end. I saw it myself with someone, he created a video for a 5k exact keyword and in 1-2 weeks he only got 5 clicks to the offer while we were ranking at #1. Maybe he fooled me, maybe not but still.

    Now an example with more realistic data. I ranked a video at #5 on coincedence, well not 100% coincedence, it was just a test. The keyword has 2900 exact searches/month. When I look at Statcounter I only see one single click every few days from Youtube to my website. Pretty much in line with the above example.

    Big waste of time imo unless you can easily rank for kw's with 100,000's of exact searches per month.

    Have to admit that my video was pretty terrible so perhaps that the quality of the video can make a huge difference where you kind of lead them to click the link. But heck, that defeats the whole purpose of easy ranking as writing a killer conversion video script is not that easy at all, especially not when it also needs to get performed by someone with the correct light and what not, or still no one will buy it or trust it.
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    • Profile picture of the author AmazonGuy
      Ctr is very low for youtube for sure, you might be lucky with 5% , but if you have your site up there and you gett another spot in the serps from youtube I don't think its all bad , you are branding first off and your kind of locking traffic to think your site is the authority on the certain keyword.

      I have a 4k exact match keyword where I am ranking 2 different pages from 2 different sites and I have a youtube video all on the first page.
      Keyword domination is never bad.
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      • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
        Originally Posted by AmazonGuy View Post

        Ctr is very low for youtube for sure, you might be lucky with 5% , but if you have your site up there and you gett another spot in the serps from youtube I don't think its all bad , you are branding first off and your kind of locking traffic to think your site is the authority on the certain keyword.
        You have to be doing a VERY good high quality video to create any branding effect and even then people RARELY remember who did a video. They will go back to Youtube look and find your competitors videos just as well. some extremely creative people can develop a following but most trying to rank youtube videos for SEO are not getting much traffic back.

        I have a 4k exact match keyword where I am ranking 2 different pages from 2 different sites and I have a youtube video all on the first page.
        Keyword domination is never bad.
        See this is EXACTLY what I am talking about. How in the world do you think you are dominating the keyword when you are sending your prospective customer to some one else's site that 95% of the time is not sending traffic back to you?

        Using your very own numbers your 4,000 exact match keyword ranked on youtube is giving you 200 or less visits for the month and then you are hoping they will click through again to the affiliate, adsense or purchase page.

        You would be better off going after a drop dead easy long tail with 400 searches that send the user to a page you can have more control with conversion.

        I am Still not getting it.
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        • Profile picture of the author heavysm
          It's easier therefore more marketers will be doing it. Even if there is lower ctr marketers will do it because of the perceived ease of creating a video and ranking it. Then to make up for lowered conversions and ctr they create more and more videos to make their numbers more reasonable.

          For a lot of people creating their own site and ranking it is far too much hassle compared to slapping up a video after video and waiting for sales/leads to be generated. Of course having a site is better, but when there's an easy loophole they exploit it until the next trend comes.
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      • Profile picture of the author danparks
        Originally Posted by AmazonGuy View Post

        Ctr is very low for youtube for sure, you might be lucky with 5% , but if you have your site up there and you gett another spot in the serps from youtube I don't think its all bad , you are branding first off and your kind of locking traffic to think your site is the authority on the certain keyword.

        I have a 4k exact match keyword where I am ranking 2 different pages from 2 different sites and I have a youtube video all on the first page.
        Keyword domination is never bad.
        This is right. Rather than doing it to get traffic from the video on YouTube, you might want to rank a video to capture a spot (or another spot) near the top of a Google SERP.

        One example from experience. Had a site ranked for a keyword and it had two different site pages ranked #1 and #2 in Google. Sometimes. Because randomly, Google would insert a single YouTube video thumbnail at #2. I got a simple video to the client site to rank and it took that competitor video out. So, the client had the first 3 spots, with no competitor at #2. The video thumbnail at #2 probably didn't gain much or any traffic, but it knocked out a competitor and gave the client the top positions in Google for the one keyword.
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        • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
          Originally Posted by heavysm View Post

          Then to make up for lowered conversions and ctr they create more and more videos to make their numbers more reasonable.
          Sorry still makes no sense. I think what is happening here is marketers have tunnel vision . they only think of how long it takes to rank from them putting up the site. You have all the time you have to put into makin the video and if you shortcut it with some junk video then the conversion rate drops even further.

          Anything can be scaled up. So you could apply the same to doing really long tail and ramp it up. No videos needed and better conversion


          Originally Posted by danparks View Post

          I got a simple video to the client site to rank and it took that competitor video out. So, the client had the first 3 spots, with no competitor at #2. The video thumbnail at #2 probably didn't gain much or any traffic, but it knocked out a competitor and gave the client the top positions in Google for the one keyword.
          I must not be understanding you because if the number 2 is a video to youtube (whether its yours or not) and it gets little conversion you have not knocked out anything. The people are still going to youtube and not coming back in any great quantity through the number 2 link. The number 2 ranked video is still sending the customers away 90%+ never to return. SO in that case Youtube is your competitor. No knock out in sight.
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        • Profile picture of the author danparks
          Originally Posted by danparks View Post

          This is right. Rather than doing it to get traffic from the video on YouTube, you might want to rank a video to capture a spot (or another spot) near the top of a Google SERP.

          One example from experience. Had a site ranked for a keyword and it had two different site pages ranked #1 and #2 in Google. Sometimes. Because randomly, Google would insert a single YouTube video thumbnail at #2. I got a simple video to the client site to rank and it took that competitor video out. So, the client had the first 3 spots, with no competitor at #2. The video thumbnail at #2 probably didn't gain much or any traffic, but it knocked out a competitor and gave the client the top positions in Google for the one keyword.
          Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

          I must not be understanding you because if the number 2 is a video to youtube (whether its yours or not) and it gets little conversion you have not knocked out anything. The people are still going to youtube and not coming back in any great quantity through the number 2 link. The number 2 ranked video is still sending the customers away 90%+ never to return. SO in that case Youtube is your competitor. No knock out in sight.
          A person looking at the search results very well may not go to the video listed at #2, no matter who is listed there. However, if there's going to be a video inserted in that position, it might as well be to my client's site in place of a competitor. And, with the competitor gone from #2, the first few spots are all my client's, so there's no "distraction" for the visitors who only focus on who's at the very top - all spots are owned by one site.
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          • Profile picture of the author danparks
            Originally Posted by danparks View Post

            A person looking at the search results very well may not go to the video listed at #2, no matter who is listed there. However, if there's going to be a video inserted in that position, it might as well be to my client's site in place of a competitor. And, with the competitor gone from #2, the first few spots are all my client's, so there's no "distraction" for the visitors who only focus on who's at the very top - all spots are owned by one site.
            It's not really about traffic (because I agree with you that I don't think YouTube is great for traffic), it's about the appearance of owning the top of a SERP.
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            • Profile picture of the author yukon
              Banned
              Originally Posted by danparks View Post

              It's not really about traffic (because I agree with you that I don't think YouTube is great for traffic), it's about the appearance of owning the top of a SERP.
              But that could also be seen as losing potential traffic, because instead of ranking a YT video thumbnail image in Google SERPs a regular web page or self hosted video could have been ranked that delivers traffic directly to a sales page.

              I'm sure its' easier to rank a YT video in Google SERPs, so for you it's easy money, but for a client it's potentially lost sales since traffic will most likely wander off to other Youtube videos on Youtubes right sidebar.

              When you rank a YT video & the traffic lands on the YT video page, there's going to be 20 other review videos to pick from that other people in the same niche are trying to use for advertisements. So I wouldn't really call that 1st organic search page with the video thumbnail image branding, because your exposing the traffic to every other person selling the same product when they land on YT.
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              • Profile picture of the author danparks
                Originally Posted by yukon View Post

                But that could also be seen as losing potential traffic, because instead of ranking a YT video thumbnail image in Google SERPs a regular web page or self hosted video could have been ranked that delivers traffic directly to a sales page.

                I'm sure its' easier to rank a YT video in Google SERPs, so for you it's easy money, but for a client it's potentially lost sales since traffic will most likely wander off to other Youtube videos on Youtubes right sidebar.

                When you rank a YT video & the traffic lands on the YT video page, there's going to be 20 other review videos to pick from that other people in the same niche are trying to use for advertisements. So I wouldn't really call that 1st organic search page with the video thumbnail image branding, because your exposing the traffic to every other person selling the same product when they land on YT.
                Correct on the potentially losing out if the video is shown in place of a page of the client site. The video isn't displayed in place of potentially a "normal" page, it's going to be a video no matter what. That's the cases I'm referring to. For some searches, Google sticks a video thumbnail in the results (might always be in the #2 spot, not sure). It squeezes it in between the currently ranked #1 and #2 pages. So there's no way you can get a site page in there. So it's really a sort of "special case" I'm referring to.

                As an aside, I wish I knew more about how that works with the random display of a video within results. It's only for some keywords, and for those keywords, the video isn't shown every search. One day I'll search and see it, the next day the video might not be there. And the following day it might be back. And that's with clearing browser cache, etc, etc.
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          • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
            Originally Posted by danparks View Post

            so there's no "distraction" for the visitors who only focus on who's at the very top - all spots are owned by one site.
            well you seem to think so but no - youtube owns number two not your customer. I get what you are saying that if there is going to be a youtube video there then it might as well be your customers video but you are still losing almost all of the traffic of click throughs at the number 2 spot.

            YouTube is another, distinct, important marketing channel.
            Absolutely. Not in dispute. There is traffic from browsing and through youtube search itself. We are talking about ranking in Google Organics with youtube videos as a strategy of SEO.
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            • Profile picture of the author danparks
              Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

              Absolutely. Not in dispute. There is traffic from browsing and through youtube search itself. We are talking about ranking in Google Organics with youtube videos as a strategy of SEO.
              I agree completely. I wish the video thumbnail didn't show up, period. Just want links directly to the client's site. Absolutely don't want to have a visitor take off to YouTube to be distracted clicking around YouTube for an hour, forgetting what he initially was searching for (which probably happens all the time). But if it's there, might as well own it.
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            • Profile picture of the author PerformanceMan
              Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

              well you seem to think so but no - youtube owns number two not your customer. I get what you are saying that if there is going to be a youtube video there then it might as well be your customers video but you are still losing almost all of the traffic of click throughs at the number 2 spot.



              Absolutely. Not in dispute. There is traffic from browsing and through youtube search itself. We are talking about ranking in Google Organics with youtube videos as a strategy of SEO.
              Frankly it's a strategy I'm tired of seeing being as effective as it is now. There are a lot of really bad videos ranking because of piggy-backing on YouTube's authority.

              I feel like this tactic won't be long for the world.
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            • Profile picture of the author AmazonGuy
              I understand what Mike is saying and he is right but theres going to be video anyway so I don't mind it being mine.

              If you think of the way the internet works , you write a kick ass post on something lets say the most in depth review on a product and you gained a "buying customer" which is in the funnel to press and buy the product but that customer doesn't have time and leaves his computer and goes straight to some vendor the next day and buys the product - you get $0, zero ,zip, nothing.

              The same thing works vice-versa when you get a sale because someone else wrote a great post , like you send traffic to other videos and they get a sale-customer-lead whatever the same will happen with your video from theres.

              Slideshare-Youtube-Squidoo-Whatever adds to your whole marketing effort users means $$ isn't that what you want ? Why don't you try capturing the traffic and gaining as many spots on page 1 rather than only 1 ? spots #1-#3 are not yours and you might never get there "ever" on some niches-keywords unless you want to use ppc-lol .

              If that was the case why is guest posting on niche relevant high traffic sites bad its the same thing 100 target traffic = 2-10% conversions (dependant on your market) 1000 non target traffic (maybe youtube)- 0.1-1% conversions

              I am against everything thats not in your control , but I'm using them as many as I can in my arsenal.
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  • Profile picture of the author Backlinko
    I dabble in YT video ranking. I've found that the CTR depends mostly on the keyword (as you'd expect).

    For example, product review keyword + discount link in the description gives me a decent CTR (I obviously don't know the exact %). Much lower than I'd have on my own site for sure, but the ease of ranking for tough terms makes it worth it.

    But your point is right on: trying to rank with Slideshare, YT, Squidoo etc. is not a smart long-term move. Google is onto this YT ranking phenomenon and might crack down the same was Squidoo has been lately.

    After all, they own the damn thing and can see what's going on better than anyone.
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    • Profile picture of the author yukon
      Banned
      Originally Posted by Backlinko View Post

      But your point is right on: trying to rank with Slideshare, YT, Squidoo etc. is not a smart long-term move. Google is onto this YT ranking phenomenon and might crack down the same was Squidoo has been lately.
      Everything in IM is like that, history repeats itself.

      Sort of reminds me of Warren Buffett, he always says when everyone else is selling stocks, he's buying stocks, basically don't follow the herd.
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    • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
      Originally Posted by Backlinko View Post

      .

      After all, they own the damn thing and can see what's going on better than anyone.
      The other reason its unfathomable to me why this is so big now. The same marketers who are crying about being dependent on Google after every algo change are relying double on Google.
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  • Profile picture of the author PerformanceMan
    YouTube is another, distinct, important marketing channel.

    I might be biased because I've gotten three orders today from YouTube. The videos are basically me demonstrating and pitching one of my products with a link to the order form.

    For this particular product, YouTube works exactly like I want it to.
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  • Profile picture of the author PotPieGirl
    As a general rule there are 10 spots on Page 1 of Google for any given search result. If it's a good keyword for me - I want all 10 of them. Even if that Page 1 ranking YouTube video only sends me 1 or 2 clicks a day, that's 1 or 2 more clicks my competition is NOT getting.

    For me, it's not as much about CTR of the videos, it's about saturation.

    No, ranking a site you do not own is not optimal, but if there IS going to be a YouTube video on Page 1 of the SERPs, I want it to be mine.

    Just my 2 cents =)

    Jennifer
    ~PotPieGirl
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  • Profile picture of the author online only
    I think that it's not always like that. YT video can get 70%+ CTR if the niche is software or gaming or something similar to that. In such niches ppl want to check videos etc.
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    • Profile picture of the author danparks
      Originally Posted by online only View Post

      I think that it's not always like that. YT video can get 70%+ CTR if the niche is software or gaming or something similar to that. In such niches ppl want to check videos etc.
      Seems like a very valid point. I'm not a big YouTube guy, and am only into the ranking of videos for the point I gave above (might as well try to capture a video thumbnail position if it's going to show up in SERPs no matter what). I wouldn't be surprised to find out that the importance of videos, and click through rates, is very, very dependent on the niche of what's being targeted.
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  • Profile picture of the author Cash37
    Google loves to rank brands. You have to fight it, or you'll be out the game. Don't play their game. Learn the algo and beat it.
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    • Profile picture of the author nik0
      Banned
      Originally Posted by Cash37 View Post

      Google loves to rank brands. You have to fight it, or you'll be out the game. Don't play their game. Learn the algo and beat it.
      I'm still making a killing with EMD sites. Just ranked one with only 25 pages, total costs was around $250 and the site is making $300/month right now, so you could say that the algo is absolutely fine with EMD's populized with poor content.

      Odd enough with all these new updates it's not about the quality of the content, it's about the quantity. You would expect better from a company like Google as most company's have slogans like: Go for Quality not for Quantity.
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  • Profile picture of the author Cash37
    Just to let you know. Please leave me alone.

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    • Profile picture of the author nik0
      Banned
      Originally Posted by Cash37 View Post

      Just to let you know. Please leave me alone.

      Sure you can put me on ignore but as long as you are spreading nonsense that Google favors brands then I will be here to comment on that and I could care less if YOU read it.

      Giving out infractions cause you feel insulted won't stop me at all. In fact I always feel honored when I receive an infraction as it means that I touched some sensitive snare, and that only really happens when people realize that they are wrong with their sayings.

      Perhaps you should leave this sub-forum to people who know what they are talking about and switch to noob-asking-questions mode instead of pretending that you know what you're talking about.
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