Penalised because of low quality links = lies?

17 replies
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I hired SEO guys to look at my links to try bringing my blog back to its glory by taking low quality links out/providing a disavow file. I notice that there are lots of "legitimate" (or at least I'm sure they are) links that are recommended to be disavowed/removed, which shocked me

This makes me thing whether this whole thing about having low quality links will get penalised are just lies? I mean, if that's the case, there's no way you can control who's going to link to you and you can just hire Fiverr gigs to bring everyone else's ranking down? Some people in the forum can prove that they can bring a site down though so this is like a hit and miss?

And this would mean big sites will have 0 rank because all other sites are spamming, duplicating their contents, and linking to them from forums, spam blogs, etc?

Confused
#lies #links #low #penalised #quality
  • Profile picture of the author PerformanceMan
    Originally Posted by michaelra View Post

    I hired SEO guys to look at my links to try bringing my blog back to its glory by taking low quality links out/providing a disavow file. I notice that there are lots of "legitimate" (or at least I'm sure they are) links that are recommended to be disavowed/removed, which shocked me

    This makes me thing whether this whole thing about having low quality links will get penalised are just lies? I mean, if that's the case, there's no way you can control who's going to link to you and you can just hire Fiverr gigs to bring everyone else's ranking down? Some people in the forum can prove that they can bring a site down though so this is like a hit and miss?

    And this would mean big sites will have 0 rank because all other sites are spamming, duplicating their contents, and linking to them from forums, spam blogs, etc?

    Confused
    Hi, it's not a lie. Take it from someone who has been Google-slapped quite a bit

    Link-based penalties are real and they happen when manipulative anchor text is multiplied one time too often.
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  • Profile picture of the author MikeFriedman
    Originally Posted by michaelra View Post

    I hired SEO guys to look at my links to try bringing my blog back to its glory by taking low quality links out/providing a disavow file. I notice that there are lots of "legitimate" (or at least I'm sure they are) links that are recommended to be disavowed/removed, which shocked me
    That to me sounds like you hired someone that has no idea what they are doing.
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  • Profile picture of the author online only
    Just tell us, what is NOT low quality link for you.

    From there we can move on and actually give out some suggestions/help

    Example:

    SEO GUY: forum profile links are shitty, let's disavow them
    YOU: NO! STOP! They are legitimate, imo...
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    • Profile picture of the author michaelra
      Originally Posted by online only View Post

      Just tell us, what is NOT low quality link for you.
      From there we can move on and actually give out some suggestions/help
      For example, a link from well reputable sites like thenextweb.com (they had an article and linked to me as the source) or when I made a comment on blogs with commentluv (such as at kikolani.com or any other, really. Does this mean we're not supposed to comment on blogs with commentluv plugin??) or from reputable brands like blog.navman.com.au and meelec.com
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      • Profile picture of the author attorneydavid
        Originally Posted by michaelra View Post

        For example, a link from well reputable sites like thenextweb.com (they had an article and linked to me as the source) or when I made a comment on blogs with commentluv (such as at kikolani.com or any other, really. Does this mean we're not supposed to comment on blogs with commentluv plugin??) or from reputable brands like blog.navman.com.au and meelec.com

        linkdelete.com?

        Anyway. I've certainly had keyword based anchor text type penalties. Look here's the thing. When using the internet say 90%(mb) of the make money online crowd will have the ethics of con artists.

        There's this thing called the confidence scam. It's a variation here. People hear there's a problem with bad links, cobble together a service and then pretend to be an expert on effects of bad links because they run a service that removes (ostensibly ) bad links. They might even convince themselves they actually are experts.

        Probably based on doing a couple hours of internet research. It's really easy to adopt a set of belief that benefits you. It applies to selling SEO services as much as say whole life insurance or high commission financial products.

        The services might still be able to remove links (my experience was so-so and the report was not completely accurate which really hacked me off). That's a very simple cut past and email type deal.

        Being an expert on SEO and which links to remove . That's a real skill set requiring quite alot of experience.
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        • Profile picture of the author MikeFriedman
          Originally Posted by attorneydavid View Post

          linkdelete.com?

          Anyway. I've certainly had keyword based anchor text type penalties. Look here's the thing. When using the internet say 90%(mb) of the make money online crowd will have the ethics of con artists.

          There's this thing called the confidence scam. It's a variation here. People hear there's a problem with bad links, cobble together a service and then pretend to be an expert on effects of bad links because they run a service that removes (ostensibly ) bad links. They might even convince themselves they actually are experts.

          Probably based on doing a couple hours of internet research. It's really easy to adopt a set of belief that benefits you. It applies to selling SEO services as much as say whole life insurance or high commission financial products.

          The services might still be able to remove links (my experience was so-so and the report was not completely accurate which really hacked me off). That's a very simple cut past and email type deal.

          Being an expert on SEO and which links to remove . That's a real skill set requiring quite alot of experience.

          Totally agree. The problem with link removal services is they have no idea what they are doing.

          Out of curiousity, I tested out a couple of these services on some throw-away domains I bought to see what they do. Complete sham. They pretty much do one of two things. Either they try to have damn near every link removed and then submitted to the Disavow Tool, or they remove links that fit into some sort of made up parameters. For example, they will try to remove every link that appears on a page with more than 50 outgoing links on it. It could be a link on a page on The New York Times, but they are going to request its removal and then disavow it when that doesn't work.

          I have done a couple of link removal projects, and to do it right is a complete PIA and time vampire. I (or someone on my team) literally visits every page with a link on it to inspect and evaluate it. If we decide it is a bad link, we then seek out how to contact someone behind the website. If they have a phone number, we pick up the phone and call them. If not, we find an email address on the site, a contact form, or look up the WhoIs information. They get sent an email including every URL and the anchor text (to make it easier for them to find) with a link on it requesting the links be removed. After two weeks, a second request goes out if the link(s) have not been removed. Two more weeks and then we create a Disavow report. For each link (or single domain full of multiple links) it details the dates when the attempted contact was made, by what method (email or phone), and we include the email address if applicable.

          That is how you do link removal. Like I said, complete PIA. There is no way any of those link removal services out there are doing all that for $200 or $300.

          Like attorneydavid said, they found a demand out there in the market place, matched it with the cheapest and simplest way they could make it appear they were serving that demand, and then slapped a price tag on it.
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          • Profile picture of the author michaelra
            Originally Posted by MikeFriedman View Post

            That is how you do link removal. Like I said, complete PIA. There is no way any of those link removal services out there are doing all that for $200 or $300.

            Like attorneydavid said, they found a demand out there in the market place, matched it with the cheapest and simplest way they could make it appear they were serving that demand, and then slapped a price tag on it.
            I think most are just using a software to scan and guess what links are low/bad-potential and then give you the report, as if they are doing a thorough analysis one by one

            I wonder if linkdelete.com checks manually or just using an auto software, hm. thinking to use these guys
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  • Profile picture of the author MisterMister
    Originally Posted by michaelra View Post

    I hired SEO guys to look at my links to try bringing my blog back to its glory by taking low quality links out/providing a disavow file. I notice that there are lots of "legitimate" (or at least I'm sure they are) links that are recommended to be disavowed/removed, which shocked me

    This makes me thing whether this whole thing about having low quality links will get penalised are just lies? I mean, if that's the case, there's no way you can control who's going to link to you and you can just hire Fiverr gigs to bring everyone else's ranking down? Some people in the forum can prove that they can bring a site down though so this is like a hit and miss?

    And this would mean big sites will have 0 rank because all other sites are spamming, duplicating their contents, and linking to them from forums, spam blogs, etc?

    Confused
    The bold part is what bothers me too, google has a spam team they are paying them good money, and we are supposed to do all the work? basically we are doing their job for them. How the hell can we catch all these spammers or low quality links? the net is a wild west landscape, its like finding a needle in a haystack, so innocent web owners are getting penalized for assumptions, they see some low spam site linking back to us without our knowledge and we suffer for it.

    Its BS. We can't control random people who decide to link back to our site, and google webmaster tools doesn't even show all spammy links. They assume you paid for those links, they are making this too complicated and hard, also all those big news sites and popular sites get spam links like crazy and there are plenty of spammy sites duplicating their content yet they dont get punished for other peoples sins, they keep their ranking because they have Authority aka big income and name. while smaller sites have no shot to gain an audience, google changed and now they are only supporting the big wigs.
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  • Profile picture of the author FranksToys
    Getting penalized for low quality links exists and it's as a result of the latest algo updates that were rolled out.

    However just disavowing the links like your SEO guy is telling you to do won't do any good. The best course of action just like Matt Cutts and the rest of Google has told us to do is remove the links and disavow those that cannot be removed.

    You did bring up a valid point though, Google has given the power to the unscrupulous. Now cheap Fiverr link building techniques can be used to ruin a persons website.

    Welcome to SEO in 2014.
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    • Profile picture of the author michaelra
      Originally Posted by FranksToys View Post

      Welcome to SEO in 2014.
      It's also sad because I now have to contact a few bloggers who liked my posts years ago and have put me on their blogroll as their buddies/good gestures :|

      Obviously, their niche is totally different than mine and it "may" be thought of low quality sitewide, non related, "spammy" links by Google

      Business != friends
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      • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
        Originally Posted by attorneydavid View Post


        Probably based on doing a couple hours of internet research. It's really easy to adopt a set of belief that benefits you. It applies to selling SEO services as much as say whole life insurance or high commission financial products.

        Excellent post and great examples

        Originally Posted by MisterMister View Post

        The bold part is what bothers me too, google has a spam team they are paying them good money, and we are supposed to do all the work? basically we are doing their job for them. How the hell can we catch all these spammers or low quality links? the net is a wild west landscape,
        Sorry it is NOT google's job to sort out your link situation. Its your job to make sure you get solid links that will protect you from bad ones. Thats not me being mean - Thats just the reality of things. For all the talk that goes on over the last two years of how bad negative SEO was going to get and how it would destroy the serps - it hasn't happened. The boys with xrumer, scrapebox and Senuke have not brought down the serps. Why? because sites with good links to begin with have a big measure of protection. There will be casualties and exception in any war but for the most part Google is taking down the sites tjey want to take out OR the sites that no one will care enough to miss.

        Originally Posted by michaelra View Post

        It's also sad because I now have to contact a few bloggers who liked my posts years ago and have put me on their blogroll as their buddies/good gestures :|

        Obviously, their niche is totally different than mine and it "may" be thought of low quality sitewide, non related, "spammy" links by Google
        You will have to blame marketers for that. Selling blogroll links like everything mass marketers touch has become totally spammy. Google had little choice.

        Business != friends[/QUOTE]
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  • Profile picture of the author yukon
    Banned
    This thread is a link sellers nightmare.
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  • Profile picture of the author fastreplies
    Just curious, what will Google do to site's owner who doesn't have WMT, Analytics, sitemap
    and the rest of garbage 98% of general public have no idea even exist inside of SEO
    circles where Google is the only topic of conversations which are driving "what Google
    will do next" crowd insane?

    Is Google going to penalize 98% of Internet for virtually ignoring little bitch Google
    and linking to whomever sites owners pleased?

    :confused:

    fastreplies
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    • Profile picture of the author netanel23
      Google isn't penalizing everyone, its only those that built shady links and/or has been hit by negative SEO.

      If negative SEO got big enough they'd have to do something about it. For now it isn't.

      Originally Posted by fastreplies View Post

      Just curious, what will Google do to site's owner who doesn't have WMT, Analytics, sitemap
      and the rest of garbage 98% of general public have no idea even exist inside of SEO
      circles where Google is the only topic of conversations which are driving "what Google
      will do next" crowd insane?

      Is Google going to penalize 98% of Internet for virtually ignoring little bitch Google
      and linking to whomever sites owners pleased?

      :confused:

      fastreplies
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      • Profile picture of the author fastreplies
        [DELETED]
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        • Profile picture of the author nik0
          Banned
          I once wrote a guide how to disavow links in a quick and easy way and mainly tailored towards IM'ers as most of them only have spam links so quite easy to get rid of them.

          It was mostly based on links on pages that have actual value, and taking OBL into account. obvious that is not bullet proof and I would never sell it as a service, however for the IM crowd it would work quite well.

          Those services like Link Delete or softwares like Link Detox are doing kind of the same thing, however they do sell it.

          But as Mike F already pointed out, it's impossible to do it with softwares, you really have to visit each freaking page and that can take countless hours so you automatically end up in budgets of thousands of dollars.

          If you don't have that budget then start with a new domain, and do some semi optimal disavow on the side for cheap or yourself as you got nothing to lose if you already decided to start over.
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        • Profile picture of the author nik0
          Banned
          Originally Posted by fastreplies View Post

          Really?
          And how Google decides which links are "shady"?
          Did Google published anywhere definition of "shady" links? Point to me where.
          Google gave some hints like sidebar / footer links on totally irrelevant sites.

          We also know that it doesn't get appreciated when you use massive amounts of time the same anchor text so those links you can also discard, even if they are present at relevant sites (forum sigs and of course footer/sidebar again) or if possible change them to url or domain name anchors.

          For the rest you can think yourself, when you buy 600 bookmarks at Fiverr you know that 80% or so of them end up on Pligg sites. Can't get much more unnatural. Same with spun articles on 150 different crappy article directories or 10.000 blog comments at totally irrelevant sites.

          Imo it's all about footprints and when the same type of link on the same type of platform appears a few dozen times or more then Google probably flags it as unnatural as that's what it is. In case you have 100.000 links then it probably won't get flagged at a few dozen but perhaps at a few hundred as it makes no sense to make it non ratio wise.

          I suppose it also looks at how many sites there are in total. If you only have 60 blog posts from Wordpress based sites you probably won't get flagged (at least I haven't seen proof of that so far) simply cause there are millions of self hosted Wordpress sites.

          Does your link profile fully exists of 60 bookmarks at Pligg sites then the chance to get penalized for unnatural links is much higher as there are only 1000's or perhaps 10.000's of sites based on that platform.

          Again the whole ratio thing.

          Anyway that's how I treat the whole "unnatural link" thing.

          Then add links surrounded by poor spun content which leaves another footprint and you'll get a whole way in at least preventing receiving such penalties.

          I rank my own sites with blog posts at my cheaper network where each post is surrounded by 50-150 words, hardly any variation in that besides different themes/settings/hostings etc. Although that also leaves a pretty obvious footprint I have never received an unnatural link message or penalty for doing that. Probably cause I haven't reached their threshold yet.

          No one knows exactly what Google does but common sense comes a whole way.
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  • Profile picture of the author michaelra
    The hard part is when you are hosting a gadget giveaway, and all these sites like tattslotto or other "gambling" forum/info post about your giveaway on their site with a link... used to be happy with that (more traffic) but nowadays I'm contemplating
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