And you thought anchor text wasn't important ;)

15 years ago

Yeah thats happened to me before too , but not on such as drastic scale in difference in niche, i done it with a only slightly different niche and it actually worked out better than the site i was originally optimising. Luckily the site was related enough not be seen as Spam and it has remained in that position, Health and dogs in your case though will most probably disapear after a little while.

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AndyBlackSEO

15 years ago

Backlinks are currently the back bone of SEO. Done in the correct manner, they can be very powerful.

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Smokey_Joe

15 years ago

That's exactly what we have been talking about - backlinks counts, anchor text counts, relevancy counts. The only thing that doesn't seem to count is pagerank

.

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Intrepreneur

15 years ago

The anchor text matters short term, long term, it's not so important, as the algorythm gives less and less weight to the Anchor text over time and more wieght to onsite optimization ;-)

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M0n3yMan

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Intrepreneur

The anchor text matters short term, long term, it's not so important, as the algorythm gives less and less weight to the Anchor text over time and more wieght to onsite optimization ;-)

link building is one of the most important aspects of seo,

Ther is only so far you can go with onpage optimization.

fr example say you do everything you can 100% onpage and it puts you on page 3 of google, how on earth are you going to get it to page one?

Link building will be very important for a very long time into the future but google will change its algo to decide what certain types of links are worth more and what are worth less which is why you should vary where you get your links from.

also if I was going to guess what google was going to implement in the future then I would say they will move towards things like bounce rate or the ammount of people that click the back button to return to the results and how long they were on the site before doing that.

but that would be reasonably hard to implement accurately for them and would be a long time away,

to sum it up do onpage then build links just like years ago the main things that have changed in those years is what type of links you get and how you get them.

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Puusaari

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Intrepreneur

The anchor text matters short term, long term, it's not so important, as the algorythm gives less and less weight to the Anchor text over time and more wieght to onsite optimization ;-)

Somebody get this guy out of the SEO forum already.

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bgmacaw

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Puusaari

Somebody get this guy out of the SEO forum already.

I want him to stay. If people believe him it reduces the competition.

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Stephen Crooks

15 years ago

On site or off site SEO it all leads to the same conclusion, in my opinion it is about telling Google exactly what a page on your site is about. Anchor text is obviously a great way of informing Google what the page is optimised for.

Of course when Googlebot follows that link and finds the page optimised for that particular anchor text it tells them it is a good idea to index that page under that keyword.. Ranking high is the sum and quality of backlinks plus relevancy of the content plus a few other things like domain age and other SEO things like titles, META data etc...

Your dog training example is a bit of an anomaly and I can't imagine it will rank like that for long. However, this is Google and I sometimes think they like to keep us guessing and throw in little anomalies like this from time to time to keep us from reverse engineering their algos..

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Intrepreneur

15 years ago

Steve all it would take is a look inside my wbemaster tools. Something which I'm not willing to do unless I was selling an SEO product.

But if people take time to analyse Googles ever going reasons not to make such a big deal of certain SEO methods, they'd notice that all is possible.

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Stephen Crooks

15 years ago

Who said I was referring to you? I was referring to the OP..

Originally Posted by Intrepreneur

I never gave an example of dog training and yes your right not to automatically turn down what I say.

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Intrepreneur

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Steve Crooks

Who said I was referring to you? I was referring to the OP..

Sorry steve my bad.

Let's just narrow down my reasonings to a simple but key factor of SEO.

Do you really think Google care what anchor text is linking to your site?

I don't think they do, they care what your site is about and as long as your site is about what you want to rank for, eventually anchor text stops mattering.

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Stephen Crooks

15 years ago

No, but what they care about is ensuring that a page is ranked in their indexes for relevant keywords. A link is like a vote of confidence and the better the link the more confidence Google has to rank it higher for that keyword. Of course you are right about the content being relevant but you are wrong to say that backlinks count less over time in my opinion.

Originally Posted by Intrepreneur

Sorry steve my bad.

Let's just narrow down my reasonings to a simple but key factor of SEO.

Do you really think Google care what anchor text is linking to your site?

I don't think they do, they care what your site is about and as long as your site is about what you want to rank for, eventually anchor text stops mattering.

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Intrepreneur

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Steve Crooks

No, but what they care about is ensuring that a page is ranked in their indexes for relevant keywords. A link is like a vote of confidence and the better the link the more confidence Google has to rank it higher for that keyword. Of course you are right about the content being relevant but you are wrong to say that backlinks count less over time in my opinion.

Not the backlinks, the backlinks become stronger/more worthy, over time.

It's the anchor text I'm saying become less important.

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Stephen Crooks

15 years ago

So what are you saying? After a few months of being indexed, I can change all the anchor text leading to my credit card site from "credit cards" to "milk bottles" and it would have no impact on my credit card site's ranking?

Originally Posted by Intrepreneur

Not the backlinks, the backlinks become stronger/more worthy, over time.

It's the anchor text I'm saying become less important.

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Intrepreneur

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Steve Crooks

So what are you saying? After a few months of being indexed, I can change all the anchor text leading to my credit card site from "credit cards" to "milk bottles" and it would have no impact on my credit card site's ranking?

Certainly not, why would you change it as links incoming to your site should stay the same for as long as they are live on the net.

And Changing them I reckon would have an impact because it causes a descrepancy in the link compared to what it used to be.

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Stephen Crooks

15 years ago

Then you've lost me I am afraid. How on earth can you test whether anchor text importance lessens over time if you don't change the anchor text? This is a bit of a daft debate to be honest!

Originally Posted by Intrepreneur

Certainly not, why would you change it as links incoming to your site should stay the same for as long as they are live on the net.

And Changing them I reckon would have an impact because it causes a descrepancy in the link compared to what it used to be.

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Intrepreneur

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Steve Crooks

Then you've lost me I am afraid. How on earth can you test whether anchor text importance lessens over time if you don't change the anchor text? This is a bit of a daft debate to be honest!

It's a calcualtion not a human being.

It says this is good and if it;s not that it;s bad.

If it changes, do this and if it doesn't do that.

That's all it is, and if you work it out, bit bit by bit, taking onboard everything Google care about while doing so.. you'll notice this isn't a daft debate.

And that this debate wasn't that Google care or don't care if you "change" the anchor text of your links, the debate was that the anchor text becomes less important over time.

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Stephen Crooks

15 years ago

Okay, you aren't making any sense now. You said that anchor text becomes less important over time but you haven't said how you test this. The only way to test this would be to change the anchor text over time to see if it impacts rankings.. Now, don't give us some babble about Google doing this or changing that. Have you actually tested your theory that anchor text importance gets less over time? If so, what tests did you do?

Originally Posted by Intrepreneur

It's a calcualtion not a human being.

It says this is good and if it;s not that it;s bad.

If it changes, do this and if it doesn't do that.

That's all it is, and if you work it out, bit bit by bit, taking onboard everything Google care about while doing so.. you'll notice this isn't a daft debate.

And that this debate wasn't that Google care or don't care if you "change" the anchor text of your links, the debate was that the anchor text becomes less important over time.

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Intrepreneur

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Steve Crooks

Okay, you aren't making any sense now. You said that anchor text becomes less important over time but you haven't said how you test this. The only way to test this would be to change the anchor text over time to see if it impacts rankings.. Now, don't give us some babble about Google doing this or changing that. Have you actually tested your theory that anchor text importance gets less over time? If so, what tests did you do?

No it wouldn't be the only way to test it because you're addding another variable into the mix.

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Stephen Crooks

15 years ago

variable.. What variable? Can we have a simple answer to a simple question please? What testing did you do for this theory of yours?

Originally Posted by Intrepreneur

No it wouldn't be the only way to test it because you're addding another variable into the mix.

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Intrepreneur

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Steve Crooks

variable.. What variable? Can we have a simple answer to a simple question please? What testing did you do for this theory of yours?

Ok maybe you missing what a Variable is.

something that is likely to vary; something that is subject to variation; "the weather is one variable to be considered"

I got that from Google definitons just for you.

Code:

So you're telling me the only way to test that anchor text doesn't matter over time is to change the anchor text.

That variable would then be named anchor text change.

The true varaiable we are wanting to test is.

Code:

Anchor text not keyword loaded, and still ranking site over time.

You see the difference add the two tgether and you've added in another variable that has nothing to do with the original test.

Anyhow, I'll leave you to it, it seems everyone just likes to follow the crowd and my SEO strategies aren't wanted.

I urge all of you who just decide to beleive what you are told to start thinking for yourselves rather than letting others do it all for you.

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Stephen Crooks

15 years ago

Very kind to find a definition of variable mate but I have a diploma in computing and a diploma in IT, I am aware of what a variable is.. Anyway onto more important things, I have still yet to see any decent explanations of your theory apart from some article from SEO book about how Google might be looking more favourably at on site factors rather than links.. Okay, they might but what has that got to do with your theory about anchor text becoming less important over time?

You are just spouting words without giving any information. Just like everyone else here, we are all intrigued by new theories backed up with evidence but just like your theories on social bookmarking in a another thread, it's just words and no substance. I think you may be a bit self delusional and perhaps you should get to grips with your lack of SEO knowledge first before making claims you can't back up with evidence.

Originally Posted by Intrepreneur

Ok maybe you missing what a Variable is.

I got that from Google definitons just for you.

Code:

So you're telling me the only way to test that anchor text doesn't matter over time is to change the anchor text.

That variable would then be named anchor text change.

The true varaiable we are wanting to test is.

Code:

Anchor text not keyword loaded, and still ranking site over time.

You see the difference add the two tgether and you've added in another variable that has nothing to do with the original test.

Anyhow, I'll leave you to it, it seems everyone just likes to follow the crowd and my SEO strategies aren't wanted.

I urge all of you who just decide to beleive what you are told to start thinking for yourselves rather than letting others do it all for you.

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Stephen Crooks

15 years ago

I guess it is all about opinion and everyone should do there own testing but it is normal to back up such claims with some proof otherwise whats the point of writing something? It's just words at the end of the day. I know from my own testing what works and what doesn't and I have documented it in another thread. Of course you don't have to share your testing but it is the spirit of the warrior forum to share experiences and back it up with proof.

Originally Posted by Intrepreneur

Steve all it would take is a look inside my wbemaster tools. Something which I'm not willing to do unless I was selling an SEO product.

But if people take time to analyse Googles ever going reasons not to make such a big deal of certain SEO methods, they'd notice that all is possible.

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Intrepreneur

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Steve Crooks

I guess it is all about opinion and everyone should do there own testing but it is normal to back up such claims with some proof otherwise whats the point of writing something? It's just words at the end of the day. I know from my own testing what works and what doesn't and I have documented it in another thread. Of course you don't have to share your testing but it is the spirit of the warrior forum to share experiences and back it up with proof.

I'm working on it, it takes time but once I have fulfilled my dream I'm sure WF will be the first to hear about it.

Although I could show a smaller example, but unfortunately those keywords I was using are being smothered by blackhatters at the moment.

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Black Hat Cat Banned 15 years ago

Originally Posted by bgmacaw

I want him to stay. If people believe him it reduces the competition.

lol...........
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Intrepreneur

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Puusaari

Somebody get this guy out of the SEO forum already.

Let me see inside your WebMaster tools for a top ranking site of yours and how many of your links all contain keywords...

I guarantee anchor text becomes gradually less important over time.

Remember the link bombing, Google had to put something in place that would gradually devalue the anchor text so it can't be done in the future.

I've tested a lot of SEO methods, and quite frankly I found anchor text, is a lot less important than it's made out to be.

And as long as you do have some related anchor text backlinks and good onsite optimzation you'll get there.

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Stephen Crooks

15 years ago

Interesting.. Can you actually back this up with some proof, screenshots of your testing etc?

Originally Posted by Intrepreneur

Let me see inside your WebMaster tools for a top ranking site of yours and how many of your links all contain keywords...

I guarantee anchor text becomes gradually less important over time.

Remember the link bombing, Google had to put something in place that would gradually devalue the anchor text so it can't be done in the future.

I've tested a lot of SEO methods, and quite frankly I found anchor text, is a lot less important than it's made out to be.

And as long as you do have some related anchor text backlinks and good onsite optimzation you'll get there.

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4morereferrals

15 years ago

This is classic "forum controversy" marketing attempts. This is the second thread that has taken on a life of its own from the nonsensicle contrarian viewpoints of this poster.

At this point I have to chalk it up to either a desire for negative attention, or controversy marketing. I suspect the latter.

How does this "notion" explain that Adobe ranks out of 1.7 billion pages for Click Here? Adobes site isnt about "click here" [ last I checked - I suspect next I'll hear about how the earth's gone flat ]

Originally Posted by Intrepreneur

The anchor text matters short term, long term, it's not so important, as the algorythm gives less and less weight to the Anchor text over time and more wieght to onsite optimization ;-)

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sitywyde

15 years ago

I agree with the anchored back link, but someone commented on page rank not mattering.I disagree, the higher the page rank that is linked to you, with relevant subject, the more value to your back link, so yes page rank does matter.

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4morereferrals

15 years ago

Take away the relevancy Commentary [ variable] and just focus in on the page rank piece of this equation.

How do we know?

Originally Posted by sitywyde

I agree with the anchored back link, but someone commented on page rank not mattering.I disagree, the higher the page rank that is linked to you, with relevant subject, the more value to your back link, so yes page rank does matter.

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Intrepreneur

15 years ago

Originally Posted by 4morereferrals

How does this "notion" explain that Adobe ranks out of 1.7 billion pages for Click Here? Adobes site isnt about "click here" [ last I checked - I suspect next I'll hear about how the earth's gone flat ]

Who are adobe in the eyes of Google?

A very important company that provide almost if not essential software to computer users.

With that out of the way, who else do you think deserves to rank for the words click here in Google?

Don't you think that Google allow them to rank for those keywords for more than one reason?

I'm not on for a the biggest controversal argument ever, but I do know that Google are smarter than half of what we are told.

There's a guy once, not so long ago who came to my blog, he made a very controversal post, I thought no way could he be right, but guess what he was, because he's on the front page of Google for many highly competetive keywords.

Do you know what he told me, no, I do, and it made so much more sense than what any other SEO product I have pruchased ever told me.

Maybe one day he will drop by your blog.. maybe he's right here now only I'm passing on the information.

You'll never know, but arrogance isn't going to get anyone anywhere.

I could go on forever for reasons why anchor text isn't as important as everyone makes it out to be, that is for long term rankings.

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michael_nguyen 15 years ago

Originally Posted by Intrepreneur

I could go on forever for reasons why anchor text isn't as important as everyone makes it out to be, that is for long term rankings.

You still haven't told us anything! Why is anchor text not important for the average internet marketer?

What did that guy on your blog say by the way ? Please share.
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Misch.Chief

15 years ago

Hi,

Intrepreneur - I agree on page factors are becoming more important, but to say anchor text becomes less important overtime is wrong IMO (at this time anyway).

You might have meant anchor text becoming less important generally as Google is trying to stray away from the link manipulation that is going on and if so I have recently done a link building campaign focusing on 1 keyword only - I know this isn't always the best method, but in this case I was testing.

The keyword was "Online Dating" - fairly competitive, and I built around 2,000 fairly good links in a 2 week period (again, not advisable, but I wanted to test how strict Google was).

The website has what I would consider on page optimisation that ticks all the boxes and is very geared towards "Online Dating".

However, it did not even make the top 1000 of Google.

2 weeks after I build this links, it popped in to the top 150 of Google for this keyword (yesterday actually) and today it moved up another large notch.

Now if Google, is paying less attention to anchor text, then what is going on here?

You may argue this is short term, but I actually did the same thing with another site late last year to the same effect, and actually it has only just started performing better 8 months after I added the links - I have not done anything since adding those links.

So as far as I can see there is no proof in what you are saying.

Anyway, that's my testing. I don't think anyone is being necessarily arrogant, but to make bold claims like this, including saying "I could go on forever for reasons why anchor text isn't as important as everyone makes it out to be, that is for long term rankings." without any proof or descriptive reasoning is why people are not choosing to be as open to your ideas.

Peace and Love,

Misch

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Intrepreneur

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Misch.Chief

Anyway, that's my testing. I don't think anyone is being necessarily arrogant, but to make bold claims like this, including saying "I could go on forever for reasons why anchor text isn't as important as everyone makes it out to be, that is for long term rankings." without any proof or descriptive reasoning is why people are not choosing to be as open to your ideas.

Peace and Love,

Misch

I got confused there, a nice long post but I got confused in what you were saying.

My bad but maybe you can explain the top two bits, the first was with what sort of anchor text?

The second was with what sort of anchor text?

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Misch.Chief 15 years ago

Hi,

With regards to the final paragraph I was saying, you need to give proof/case studies of what your saying, otherwise people will always dismiss them, especially as they go against the grain of what a lot of us are currently finding. You also said;

"I could go on forever for reasons why anchor text isn't as important as everyone makes it out to be, that is for long term rankings."

However, you have not really mentioned anything specific on reasons why it isnt as important. They were my points really.

The keyword that has performed purely on anchor text, in the short term, is "Online Dating".

The keyword that has performed purely on anchor text, in the long term, is "House Insurance".

Both these keywords are highly competitive.

I hope this clarifies my situation.

Misch
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4morereferrals

15 years ago

My replies - INLINE

Originally Posted by Intrepreneur

Who are adobe in the eyes of Google?

A very important company that provide almost if not essential software to computer users.

Not sure of the relevancy of that fact to this discussion.

With that out of the way, who else do you think deserves to rank for the words click here in Google?

Paypal, Apple, EBay, Yahoo Maps to name a few ...

Don't you think that Google allow them to rank for those keywords for more than one reason?

Yes ... but again whats the relevance of that, and if there was some relevance - that does not prove nor disprove anything either way.

I'm not on for a the biggest controversal argument ever, but I do know that Google are smarter than half of what we are told.

More text - no info we can sink our teeth into. Can you please give us something useful that will indicate how keyword focused anchor text in our backlinks becomes less and less valuable over time. I think Ive given a pretty decent example of a site that debunks your notion.

They dont rank for Click Here because google arbitrarily thinks Adobe are neat guys with a cool suite of software tools - as you eluded to earlier. They rank page 1 ... #1 for click here because they have an enormous amount of backlinks to their site with the anchor text of "click here"

There's a guy once, not so long ago who came to my blog, he made a very controversal post, I thought no way could he be right, but guess what he was, because he's on the front page of Google for many highly competetive keywords.

.... This one time at band Camp ....

Do you know what he told me, no, I do, and it made so much more sense than what any other SEO product I have pruchased ever told me.

A lot of people come here and tell people a lot of things. To rearrange everyones cranium on a basic SEO premise thats been working well for many people - with an anectdotal story of a guy who once made a post on your blog ... is likely not going to sway many to your way of thinking. Doesnt work for me anyways [ not that that is really important wither way ]

Maybe one day he will drop by your blog.. maybe he's right here now only I'm passing on the information.

You'll never know, but arrogance isn't going to get anyone anywhere.

Physician ... Heal Thyself ....

I could go on forever for reasons why anchor text isn't as important as everyone makes it out to be, that is for long term rankings.

Best ofluck in your efforts,

Steve

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iMarketing Cafe

15 years ago

LOL this is funny to me. If you look at my post on you will see, you can test it without a doubt the importance of anchor text.

Almost all LONG-TERM success is based on the Google algorithm inclusion of backlinks. While Social Media is the new fad, backlinks are the meat that keeps your website in the top ranks when you are looking for long-term success.

Your site will fluctuate with other methods but there is no doubt that backlinks are still king in ranking.

Ask any site holding a PR6 and above ranking.

Send me a PM if you want to see the blog link for proof of backlink mastery.

Hope this helps.

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M0n3yMan

15 years ago

Also google bombing is detected not just by anchor text, it is the ammount of links in a short ammount of time based soley around one keyword and more complex than that.

so they dont devalue anchor text but have a slighlty more complex way of detecting google bombing.

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iMarketing Cafe

15 years ago

Intreprenuer:

Sorry I am to new for me to send PM's or URL's so you will have to wait patiently until I get some posts in

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www.GameFriends.com

15 years ago

anchor text is the only real way a SE can know what a website should rank for outside it's ONpage factors: Meta data: titles/descrip/tags/content on page. So it is a popularity vote of sorts (a backlink) which says "this is what this page is about". It's hugely important.

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cashcow

15 years ago

Do you really think Google care what anchor text is linking to your site?

I don't think they do, they care what your site is about and as long as your site is about what you want to rank for, eventually anchor text stops mattering.

????? WHAT?????

Maybe that was true in 2003, but today, I think they do care about anchor text, if they did not, then it would a lot easier to get ranked for those long-tail keywords - no?

I like to have an open mind though, so would be interested in more info on this. How long have you been testing this for and how could you possibly test it in the first place? At what point does the anchortext become less important?

Anyway, I think the OP has just proven that onpage optimization is a very small part of what you get ranked for, so spend most of your time getting links and less time worrying about the percentage of keywords on the page.

Lee

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michael_nguyen

15 years ago

this thread is a joke. anchored text link is everything! when you say "over time it becomes less important" so your saying an anchor text link I created 2 years ago will have no value? too much assumption and no proof.

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daisyashe

15 years ago

yes i agree with fact that anchor tag is very important.
anchor tag is a keyword used for a sites helps to bring traffic for the site.

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M0n3yMan

15 years ago

Just some quick observations, I would assume that all the testing you have done if any have been on easy to rank for keywords where onpage optimization and unrelative links without keyword loaded anchor text would be enough to easily rank,

Lets face it for medium + competitive terms you would not stand a chance of ranking on the first page of google withut keyword loaded anchor text, if you believe this to be the case please list the url and keyword.

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Intrepreneur

15 years ago

Ok I hadn't went anywhere at all to confirm my findings, nor had I even known that such a highly respected site would have such an article on their site.

Google's Depreciation of Anchor Text | SEO Book.com

SeoBook have written about exactly what I am taking about.

So I can't be far wrong.

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michael_nguyen

15 years ago

Seobook are good at creating decent seo tools but thats it. Anchor text have been working for me and many people, I don't think anyones' gonna change their opinions yet. For the small time average warrior forum member, anchor text will be a major factor. Dunno about you but I haven't got time for my site to age.

Originally Posted by Intrepreneur

Ok I hadn't went anywhere at all to confirm my findings, nor had I even known that such a highly respected site would have such an article on their site.

Google's Depreciation of Anchor Text | SEO Book.com

SeoBook have written about exactly what I am taking about.

So I can't be far wrong.

Thanks

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InfoESource

15 years ago

Anchor text is quite important as is header tags (more so anchor). I found a key phrase I wanted to try so I set the anchor as such built a page, wrote a short blog post and went to bed. The next day I did a search and I was in spot 10 on google. I have since then written another blog post, and added one other related page and linked to the page I wanted to rank with. Moved up a few spots and now blog post is ranking.

Yes, anchor text is very important. Now it's time to repeat the process for yet another. Hope it goes as well.

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cienik

15 years ago

there is no doubt that anchor text is seo machine booster .

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Ceena Giselle

15 years ago

this happened to me too. I used an anchor text for my software blog and mistakenly put my personal blog's url.

now its ranking for it!

definitely a big part of seo

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SMS 15 years ago

Backlinks are very important, moreso than on page seo, in my ever humble opinion of course. I have had tons of pages (with weak competition I must admit) get to 1st page of google wihout mentioning the keyword on the page, apart from on the menu.

To what extent anchor text influences the weight of a backlink, I will not profess to know :confused:. The consesus amongst those in the know, however, is that you should vary the anchor text you use, so that it looks more natural and doesn't appear as spamming.

So use your keyword liberally as anchor text, but also sprinkle in some variations.
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And you thought anchor text wasn't important ;)

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