Google Takes Down PostJoint and 7 Japanese Networks

by nik0 Banned
36 replies
  • SEO
  • |
Google sure keeps on busy.

To bad I also got a little bit affected by it with a dozen or so sites down that were hosted with Hostgator reseller hosting.

So beware of reseller hostings, as they're often abused as SEO host.

Worse part is that I didn't buy reseller hosting but individual hosting instead but Hostgator seems to have merged it.

Source:

http://www.webmasterworld.com/google/4661410.htm
http://searchenginewatch.com/article...Google-Penalty
#google #japanese #networks #postjoint #takes
  • Profile picture of the author Cerf
    Thanks for sharing!

    I've always ignored those too-popular webhosting copanies anyway.
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    • Profile picture of the author nik0
      Banned
      Originally Posted by Cerf View Post

      Thanks for sharing!

      I've always ignored those too-popular webhosting copanies anyway.
      Very wise, I heard people in the past saying they had all their network sites on hostgator cause it had such wide range of IP's.

      Wonder what they're saying now....
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      • Profile picture of the author paulgl
        Originally Posted by nik0 View Post

        Very wise, I heard people in the past saying they had all their network sites on hostgator cause it had such wide range of IP's.

        Wonder what they're saying now....
        They're saying that's not the problem nor the solution.

        Stop trying to hide from google. If you are hiding, you must
        be doing something wrong.

        If you are doing nothing wrong, there's no need to hide.

        Why won't people wake up?

        Paul
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        • Profile picture of the author nik0
          Banned
          Originally Posted by paulgl View Post

          They're saying that's not the problem nor the solution.

          Stop trying to hide from google. If you are hiding, you must
          be doing something wrong.

          If you are doing nothing wrong, there's no need to hide.

          Why won't people wake up?

          Paul
          We like to rank fast and cheap so we need to break some rules.
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  • Profile picture of the author Surajrai
    Thanks nik0. These days Guest Blogging Networks are Google's target. Individual blogs may be in row to get penalty due to accepting low quality guest blogs.
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  • Profile picture of the author thejewelhut
    This is just speculation. Though Google has said it so many times that organic and PPC results have not any relation. But still my observation is, those websites penalized by Google, most of them are not spending on PPC. This can be considered as warning that, you can't earn only with out spending a penny. The more relevant example I take is of Links of London website.
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  • Profile picture of the author yukon
    Banned
    Why are you talking about HG, where's the connection?

    What reseller, PostJoint?
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    • Profile picture of the author nik0
      Banned
      Originally Posted by yukon View Post

      Why are you talking about HG, where's the connection?

      What reseller, PostJoint?
      Hostgator merged individual shared hosting accounts with the IP pool from their reseller hosting.

      I know cause I checked my IP and it's complete different then when I signed up, simply cause I do have one reseller hosting account as well (have 5 shared individiual hosting accounts and 1 reseller). Right now 2 of those individual shared hosting accounts switched from the 50.xx.xxx.xx IP range to the 192.xx.xxx.xxx

      Google is known to target reseller hosting accounts as those are often heavily abused as SEO hosts.

      A dozen of my sites got deindexed, all hosted with a former individual shared hosting of Hostgator, exactly at the same time that they took PostJoint down.

      So that makes me assume that PostJoint had a lot of sites hosted on Hostgator reseller hosting.

      Makes sense?

      Why else would my sites go down when they target a different blog network, none of my other sites at other hostings went down btw, only the ones there, and they wouldn't have gone down if Hostgator didn't merge the IP pool.

      To verify further I did a reverse IP on those reseller hostgator IP's and half of the sites there are deindexed.

      Why would Google attack a range of reseller IP's? Cause that's easy as that's where most of the blog networks are hosted cause of the IP diversity, and this time I'm a victim due to the weird actions from Hostgator to merge IP pools. So little bit pissed of about that as I do all these days to avoid reseller hostings and SEO hosts and then I still end up on a reseller host. That's not why I spend $100+/year per hosting account.
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      • Profile picture of the author yukon
        Banned
        Originally Posted by nik0 View Post

        Hostgator merged individual shared hosting accounts with the IP pool from their reseller hosting.

        I know cause I checked my IP and it's complete different then when I signed up, simply cause I do have one reseller hosting account as well (have 5 shared individiual hosting accounts and 1 reseller). Right now 2 of those individual shared hosting accounts switched from the 50.xx.xxx.xx IP range to the 192.xx.xxx.xxx

        Google is known to target reseller hosting accounts as those are often heavily abused as SEO hosts.

        A dozen of my sites got deindexed, all hosted with a former individual shared hosting of Hostgator, exactly at the same time that they took PostJoint down.

        So that makes me assume that PostJoint had a lot of sites hosted on Hostgator reseller hosting.

        Makes sense?

        Why else would my sites go down when they target a different blog network, none of my other sites at other hostings went down btw, only the ones there, and they wouldn't have gone down if Hostgator didn't merge the IP pool.

        To verify further I did a reverse IP on those reseller hostgator IP's and half of the sites there are deindexed.

        Why would Google attack a range of reseller IP's? Cause that's easy as that's where most of the blog networks are hosted cause of the IP diversity, and this time I'm a victim due to the weird actions from Hostgator to merge IP pools. So little bit pissed of about that as I do all these days to avoid reseller hostings and SEO hosts and then I still end up on a reseller host. That's not why I spend $100+/year per hosting account.
        I don't know what your going on about but my HG hosted sites are still ranking in Google SERPs. Good enough for me.
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        • Profile picture of the author nik0
          Banned
          Originally Posted by yukon View Post

          I don't know what your going on about but my HG hosted sites are still ranking in Google SERPs. Good enough for me.
          Lol what a totally irrelevant comment is that.

          I rest my case.
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          • Profile picture of the author yukon
            Banned
            Originally Posted by nik0 View Post

            Lol what a totally irrelevant comment is that.

            I rest my case.
            How is my comment irrelevant?

            I have sites hosted at HG (shared hosting), your saying it's a problem, I'm saying it's not a problem considering my sites/pages are still ranking.

            I still don't get the HG & PostJoint connection. Who cares If PostJoint has shared hosting, 83% of the net is shared hosting.
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            • Profile picture of the author nik0
              Banned
              Originally Posted by yukon View Post

              How is my comment irrelevant?

              I have sites hosted at HG (shared hosting), your saying it's a problem, I'm saying it's not a problem considering my sites/pages are still ranking.

              I still don't get the HG & PostJoint connection. Who cares If PostJoint has shared hosting, 83% of the net is shared hosting.
              Hope you have a good laugh.
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              • Profile picture of the author yukon
                Banned
                Originally Posted by nik0 View Post

                Hope you have a good laugh.
                I was serious about shared hosting (HG) but now that you said that, it's kinda funny.

                The PostJoint Show NO Fear support page was also funny. Looks like they tempted Matt to bring on a manual slap.
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      • Profile picture of the author nettiapina
        Originally Posted by nik0 View Post

        A dozen of my sites got deindexed, all hosted with a former individual shared hosting of Hostgator, exactly at the same time that they took PostJoint down.
        Are you suspecting that they thought you were with PostJoint, or that you were just sort of collateral damage? Surely they can't be slapping all of Hostgator, one of the biggest hosts on the planet... But Google is probably collecting much more footprints than just the host.

        What kind of sites you were hosting there?

        I'm not trying to support anyone's theory (yet), this just seems interesting and I'd like to hear a bit more.
        Signature
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        Who told me this? An ex Google web spam engineer.

        What's your excuse?
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        • Profile picture of the author nik0
          Banned
          Originally Posted by nettiapina View Post

          Are you suspecting that they thought you were with PostJoint, or that you were just sort of collateral damage? Surely they can't be slapping all of Hostgator, one of the biggest hosts on the planet... But Google is probably collecting much more footprints than just the host.

          What kind of sites you were hosting there?

          I'm not trying to support anyone's theory (yet), this just seems interesting and I'd like to hear a bit more.
          Collateral damage for sure, otherwise I would've been hit much worse.

          The sites were easily recognizable as blog network sites.

          They can't be slapping all Hostgator but they can target their pool of reseller IP's if they suspect that it contains a lot of blog network sites.

          With hostgator reseller you could get many IP's in the past, nowadays they require you to buy a certain certificat as they're short on IP's. I guess that's why they merged a number of individual shared hosting plans in that pool of IP's, and that's the only reason why I'm pissed cause I'm pretty sure that if they didn't make that merge I wouldn't have lost those domains (simply cause my other domains at 3 Hostgator accounts are untouched, ones they didn't merge).

          I buy separate hosting plans for a good reason and spend good money on it, and not to get screwed like this.

          I did a reverse IP check on two of the IP's that I know belong to that pool and found about 300 sites hosted, half of those 300 sites were deindexed so I expect they give it a quick manual look.

          There were a few domains of mine that were slightly better setup and those were left alone, on the same host, while if they took the time they could easily see it are blog network sites as well so I think it's a hasty manual job. There were also some better setup domains of mine that were deindexed, which confirms it for me even more that it's manual work, one reviewer is more picky then the other one of course.

          Actually after checking my churn & burn network I also see some other sites deindexed, which are hosted with Skynet and ASEOhosting. Those have very low prio for me and I expect to lose a few domains a month there.
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      • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
        Originally Posted by nik0 View Post

        Google is known to target reseller hosting accounts as those are often heavily abused as SEO hosts.

        A dozen of my sites got deindexed, all hosted with a former individual shared hosting of Hostgator, exactly at the same time that they took PostJoint down.
        Its just as likely you had clients using Postjoint and they crossed checked IPs, other box identifiers. Unless you have some secret knowledge Google is NOT known to target reseller hosting. Reseller hosting is WAAAY more mainstream among non PBN users than SEO hosting. There are entire companies out there selling shared accounts as reseller hosting ( as the name implies )

        What I don't get is how can google target the users of these guest blogging services. Are these systems putting their domain names and transactiosn out in the open? Sure so Google takes action against Postjoint's website...Big whoop. They won't get search traffic but they probably get more referral and repeat traffic anyway.

        I see Postbit saying they are not affected except for their own site. I don't know their business or how the site works but seems credible to me if your transactions are not out in the open. its like guest posting set up by email exchanges . Keep the transaction private behind closed doors and Google can't find them... What am I missing?

        Do they expose the sites and transactions or is Google announcing this just a PR stunt to frighten users?
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        • Profile picture of the author MikeFriedman
          Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

          Its just as likely you had clients using Postjoint and they crossed checked IPs, other box identifiers. Unless you have some secret knowledge Google is NOT known to target reseller hosting. Reseller hosting is WAAAY more mainstream among non PBN users than SEO hosting. There are entire companies out there selling shared accounts as reseller hosting ( as the name implies )
          Totally agree. Reseller hosting has plenty of viable uses. SEO hosting is used almost entirely for crappy private networks.

          Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

          What I don't get is how can google target the users of these guest blogging services. Are these systems putting their domain names and transactiosn out in the open? Sure so Google takes action against Postjoint's website...Big whoop. They won't get search traffic but they probably get more referral and repeat traffic anyway.

          I see Postbit saying they are not affected except for their own site. I don't know their business or how the site works but seems credible to me if your transactions are not out in the open. its like guest posting set up by email exchanges . Keep the transaction private behind closed doors and Google can't find them... What am I missing?

          Do they expose the sites and transactions or is Google announcing this just a PR stunt to frighten users?
          My guess is some of it is a PR stunt.

          However, they could also setup 4-5 accounts with the service. Throw in some domains and start participating. Do that for 4-5 weeks, gather a pool of say 75-100 domains that are part of the network. From there, it is just like pulling on a thread. You just keep checking which sites they are linking to, pulling all the backlinks of those sites, then seeing where those sites link to. Rinse and repeat.

          From there, I'm guessing it is manual reviews. Might seem time consuming, but really if you had just 10 people to go through 1000 sites, you could knock that out in 2 hours. Most network sites can be identified in 30 seconds or less.
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          • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
            Originally Posted by MikeFriedman View Post


            My guess is some of it is a PR stunt.

            However, they could also setup 4-5 accounts with the service. Throw in some domains and start participating. Do that for 4-5 weeks, gather a pool of say 75-100 domains that are part of the network. From there, it is just like pulling on a thread.
            Alright I got you but I just tried to signup and Post joint moderates and checks the site so google would have to have 4 or 5 sites setup and even then they are not going to get all the sites and if enough people participate not even most so to me they have probably just hit enough to cause fear.

            Mind you in this case I probably agree with Google. This was just a straight up cash for links thing from what I am seeing . If a Content sharing and distribution system is going to survive and be legit then it can't all be about links and cash. Concentrating on anchor text will get you in trouble too.

            Still I do get the sense that Google might really like to go after anything it can touch whether or not its anymore suspect than Emailing a webmaster for a colloboration. In that case it might not be about whose doing something wrong (emailing is pretty standard white hat stuff when done right) but who can we publicly slap.

            In which case Google would just be at war with anything that isn't; "build it and they will come"
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            • Profile picture of the author MikeFriedman
              Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

              Alright I got you but I just tried to signup and Post joint moderates and checks the site so google would have to have 4 or 5 sites setup and even then they are not going to get all the sites and if enough people participate not even most so to me they have probably just hit enough to cause fear.

              Yeah, it all depends how much overlap is in the network. I've unraveled a few of the networks of the more "popular" link sellers around here. Only took me an hour to find a few thousand sites of one network once. Tons of overlap in those sort of networks that are sold to the public though.

              At the end of the day though, they only have to find enough to put enough fear out there to discourage people from using services like this.
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              • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                Originally Posted by MikeFriedman View Post

                Yeah, it all depends how much overlap is in the network.
                Okay then maybe I AM missing something. Are people submitting network like sites to these services? Is that the problem? because guest blogging before people started abusing it wasn't really a network or made of network sites
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                • Profile picture of the author MikeFriedman
                  I don't know for sure, but most services like this end up with a lot of junky sites in it. People approve just about anything.

                  Maybe this one was better. If sites had 1-2 links in damn near every post and a wide range of topics, they would stick out pretty easily.

                  This one might be different. I honestly did not look at it that closely.

                  If they are legit, good sites, then yeah, Google would have a hard time identifying very many at all.

                  Either way, I wouldn't touch any services like this right now with a ten foot pole.
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                  • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                    Originally Posted by MikeFriedman View Post

                    If they are legit, good sites, then yeah, Google would have a hard time identifying very many at all.

                    Either way, I wouldn't touch any services like this right now with a ten foot pole.

                    Yeah well thats the thing - my interest is not academic. I am trying to figure out what Google considers a "service like this". Depending on the definition I wouldn't have a choice but to touch one since I am involved with a beta for one. Thing is I would not define it as a guest blogging system at all but you never know with Google. given that it links out to sites based on content that are not even member sites I am not too worried though.

                    I am thinking another way this site's members got hit is because the content on offer IS visible. An even cheaper more practical way for Google to hit the site would be to identify the sites involved by content. Thats right up the alley of what a search engine does. They seem to have a HUGE footprint and its in the content or even content titles right there on their site.

                    Sit back and crawl the site for the titles and/or content for a few weeks or months and then cross check against the Google index and lower the hammer on all the sites that essentially have been selling links.
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                    • Profile picture of the author nik0
                      Banned
                      Hostgator used to offer multiple IP's with their reseller hosting and thus a ton of private network owners gratefully made us of that.

                      Few months ago we had Ideastack that went down, also a reseller host that provides multiple IP's.

                      This time it's Hostgator. It can't be coincedence that I lose 11 sites at Hostgator reseller hosting in one single day and 0 domains at all the other shared hosting providers combined (50+ and counting).

                      How would you explain that?

                      Ok, it's hard to proof it has a connection with PostJoint, but it's dubious at least that it happens at the exact same time that Google announces it took action against PostJoint.
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                      • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                        Originally Posted by nik0 View Post

                        Hostgator used to offer multiple IP's with their reseller hosting and thus a ton of private network owners gratefully made us of that.

                        Few months ago we had Ideastack that went down, also a reseller host that provides multiple IP's..
                        Nik theres a big difference between saying Google targeted my reseller hosting and Google targets reseller hosting. From what I saw of Ideastack they were operating like a SEO host. Any service that gives you an unusual amount of class C or whatever IPs is acting more like a SEO host.

                        I've had my arguments with KPmedia etc over terminology but as we have said in all those posts its been good practice for nearly two years now to just stay away from services that stack a hole lot of IPs on one box. That alone is a foot print. There are many other more modern ways for Google to determine you are on the same box. Separate IPs does NOT protect you and at this point might telegraph to google that something strange and banworthy is going on on that box. Normal hosts are very protective about giving out a bunch of IPS to a single user.. If a bunch of network owners landed up on the same box talking advantage of HG 's offer that can explain a lot right there
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                        • Profile picture of the author nik0
                          Banned
                          Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

                          Nik theres a big difference between saying Google targeted my reseller hosting and Google targets reseller hosting. From what I saw of Ideastack they were operating like a SEO host. Any service that gives you an unusual amount of class C or whatever IPs is acting more like a SEO host.

                          I've had my arguments with KPmedia etc over terminology but as we have said in all those posts its been good practice for nearly two years now to just stay away from services that stack a hole lot of IPs on one box. That alone is a foot print. There are many other more modern ways for Google to determine you are on the same box. Separate IPs does NOT protect you and at this point might telegraph to google that something strange and banworthy is going on on that box. Normal hosts are very protective about giving out a bunch of IPS to a single user.. If a bunch of network owners landed up on the same box talking advantage of HG 's offer that can explain a lot right there
                          Yes that does explain a lot, and that's why I avoid them.

                          And then what happens? Those ******* at Hostgator start to merge normal accounts with that abused reseller IP pool, as I only had some money sites at that reseller account, but my individual shared host now shows this crappy IP range.

                          Never again that I take shared hosting from them.
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                          • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                            Are you saying you lost money sites or lost aged domains in your network? The first is bad enough the second is well....ouch
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                            • Profile picture of the author nik0
                              Banned
                              Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

                              Are you saying you lost money sites or lost aged domains in your network? The first is bad enough the second is well....ouch
                              Money sites didn't get deindexed.

                              A dozen or so network sites got deindexed, good for about $5000,- (included some PR5/PR6 domains that costed me $1k and $600,-)

                              Not really an amount to write about when you look at it in the large scale of things but makes me wonder why I spend nearly $500/year on Hostgator.

                              Especially cause I keep my more expensive domains with the more legit "APPEARING" hosting companies that appear to have a HUGE covering so that I won't get flagged when some other network gets taken down.

                              Well lesson learned, no more $400+ domain purchases to link out to clients, or I would have to develop them real well.

                              Odd enough this is the worse hosting they could've taken down for me from all 50 shared hosting plans. My lucky day again.
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                              • Profile picture of the author Kevin Maguire
                                Originally Posted by nik0 View Post

                                Money sites didn't get deindexed.

                                A dozen or so network sites got deindexed, good for about $5000,- (included some PR5/PR6 domains that costed me $1k and $600,-)

                                Not really an amount to write about when you look at it in the large scale of things but makes me wonder why I spend nearly $500/year on Hostgator.

                                Especially cause I keep my more expensive domains with the more legit "APPEARING" hosting companies that appear to have a HUGE covering so that I won't get flagged when some other network gets taken down.

                                Well lesson learned, no more $400+ domain purchases to link out to clients, or I would have to develop them real well.

                                Odd enough this is the worse hosting they could've taken down for me from all 50 shared hosting plans. My lucky day again.
                                Anything of a certain value, I would host on a private ip vps with a reputable company.
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                      • Profile picture of the author nettiapina
                        Originally Posted by nik0 View Post

                        How would you explain that?
                        I'd guess that Google just issued a bunch of manual penalties at once. They don't necessarily have much to do with each other, but if someone else has been running networks and is a fan of Hostgator that might put your sites under a microscope.

                        Did some more reading and if I understand PostJoint correctly it shouldn't leave much footprint as itself. However, I don't see why it wouldn't be possible to infiltrate. Google has been doing this stuff for years, and I'm sure even their own staff runs several large sites as a hobby or a side business. Those could be used in their "undercover" operation. Or the name dropping could just be a scare tactic. If there's not many reports of PostJoint users being targeted it might be the latter.

                        It's not about reseller hosting. As one of Mikes pointed out often it is just shared hosting - you only get more HD space and addon domains. This is the case with EuroVPS for example.
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                        Links in signature will not help your SEO. Not on this site, and not on any other forum.
                        Who told me this? An ex Google web spam engineer.

                        What's your excuse?
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  • Profile picture of the author nettiapina
    Sorry for two in a row... Apparently PostJoint is just some kind of guest post exchange that got their own site nuked from the results. The articles should not have much footprint of PostJoint usage - or that's what they claim. Cutts doesn't seem to agree with that, but I'm not sure what that footprint could be.

    Anyone know how PostJoint works?
    Signature
    Links in signature will not help your SEO. Not on this site, and not on any other forum.
    Who told me this? An ex Google web spam engineer.

    What's your excuse?
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    • Profile picture of the author tech84
      Originally Posted by nettiapina View Post


      Anyone know how PostJoint works?
      just like MBG

      As for OP, i kinda doubt the sites that got hit in relation to PostJoint would be hosted in the same Ip range using the same shared hosting with HG.

      PJ users were all from different individual owners, (give and take a few who joined and had multiple sites enrolled there)


      aside from personally knowing those sites you mentioned that got deindexed to be part of your network, is there any way where one manual checking of those sites could expose them as a PBN?
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  • Profile picture of the author deepakrajput
    PostJoint's director Saleem Yaqub has confirmed the penalty, and says it is a manual action penalty, not from any incoming links.

    "Actually we’ve never done any link building to our site, so this is a manual action as Google has no other way of targeting us,"
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    • Profile picture of the author nik0
      Banned
      Originally Posted by deepakrajput View Post

      PostJoint's director Saleem Yaqub has confirmed the penalty, and says it is a manual action penalty, not from any incoming links.

      "Actually we've never done any link building to our site, so this is a manual action as Google has no other way of targeting us,"
      Yeah the owners always come up with such bogus sayings.

      Same like the owner of MyGuestBlog did back then, pretending like it's only their money site that got affected.
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      • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
        Originally Posted by nik0 View Post

        Yeah the owners always come up with such bogus sayings.

        I will have to checkout how that site works but I see no reason why it has to be a bogus statement. Basically they are saying what I just wrote. They have not done much SEO to their site and outside of penalizing the site itself google has no way of touching them (and hopefully their customers).

        Of course they are really dodgy because more tha just guest blogging this seems to be a pay for links situation not just guest blogging.
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  • Profile picture of the author yukon
    Banned
    Maybe Google simply looked at the followed testimonial links towards the bottom of the PostJoint Home page? If those testimonials aren't fake those guys probably have some PostJoint client links on their own sites.

    Either way those testimonial domains are setting their own sites up for a manual review.
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  • Profile picture of the author yukon
    Banned
    Basically what your saying is your link profile is HGs problem. Who's next?

    I have to call BS considering my HG hosted pages still rank, then again I also rank PBN pages.
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