Questions About Hiring an SEO Expert

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So I am interested in possibly hiring an SEO expert with help in back linking for one of my sites. But with the recent changes to Google Algorithms and hearing people losing their rankings how do I know that whomever I hire isnt doing something shady just to boost my rankings?

How does someone know whether the person they are hiring for backlinks isnt doing something disastrous?

I cant afford to waste money on bad tactics. Thanks!
#expert #hiring #questions #seo
  • Profile picture of the author yukon
    Banned
    Originally Posted by BrianFish View Post

    How does someone know whether the person they are hiring for backlinks isnt doing something disastrous?
    Easy, understand SEO before outsourcing... otherwise your just guessing.
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  • Profile picture of the author BrianFish
    I can appreciate that and I am learning - I just feel like I could use some help along the way.

    Is it unreasonable to ask an SEO professional to allow me to approve of any back links prior to them being submitted?
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    • Profile picture of the author yukon
      Banned
      Originally Posted by BrianFish View Post

      Is it unreasonable to ask an SEO professional to allow me to approve of any back links prior to them being submitted?
      Absolutely, it's your money/business, you should know what's happening with your SEO.

      The best advice I can give is start a new domain ($10) & use that new domain for testing an SEO service. That way your real money site doesn't take any hits in the SERPs. Don't even tell the potential SEO your money domain URL until they've proven they can rank a page without abusing the test domain. Always have any new potential SEO service start out trying to rank an internal page on the test domain, If that guy doesn't work out, repeat with another SEO with another internal page on the test domain.

      When you find someone you like, have them rank a page on your real money site.
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      • Profile picture of the author MikeFriedman
        Originally Posted by yukon View Post

        The best advice I can give is start a new domain ($10) & use that new domain for testing an SEO service. That way your real money site doesn't take any hits in the SERPs. Don't even tell the potential SEO your money domain URL until they've proven they can rank a page without abusing the test domain. Always have any new potential SEO service start out trying to rank an internal page on the test domain, If that guy doesn't work out, repeat with another SEO with another internal page on the test domain.
        That wouldn't really work on a local SEO project so well. You can create quite a clustermess with citations if you try ranking one site and then rank another with the exact same address. Sure you can change all the citations to the new website. In some cases, getting a citation edited is more difficult than creating it in the first place.
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        • Profile picture of the author BrianFish
          Originally Posted by MikeFriedman View Post

          That wouldn't really work on a local SEO project so well. You can create quite a clustermess with citations if you try ranking one site and then rank another with the exact same address. Sure you can change all the citations to the new website. In some cases, getting a citation edited is more difficult than creating it in the first place.
          Where I am going is I have a new domain with some exposure from Bing and Yahoo page one positioning

          My revenue on this site isnt even worth posting but the upside is good - If all goes well then I would use the same person to then do work on the money sites - this way I dont affect my income stream currently coming in.
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        • Profile picture of the author yukon
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          Originally Posted by MikeFriedman View Post

          That wouldn't really work on a local SEO project so well.
          True with address, phone, etc... but you could still get a feel for the quality of work being done ranking longtail same niche keywords without worrying about 7-packs or G Maps, etc... If all goes well simply use the test domain as a link when the SEO proves they're qualified. Either way I wouldn't hand someone the keys to my business (money site SEO) without testing them first.
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        • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
          Originally Posted by MikeFriedman View Post

          That wouldn't really work on a local SEO project so well.
          It wouldn't work with any professional SEO or expert accustomed to working with real sites regardless. I guess I still have to adjust myself to what people are talking about when they talk about professional and experts is link builders.

          Any real pro would require more than a site slapped together on top of a $10 domain and the Op would have to do more work than he is probably willing to do on the test site - basically make into a money site anyway.
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          • Profile picture of the author MikeFriedman
            Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

            It wouldn't work with any professional SEO or expert accustomed to working with real sites regardless. I guess I still have to adjust myself to what people are talking about when they talk about professional and experts is link builders.

            Any real pro would require more than a site slapped together on top of a $10 domain and the Op would have to do more work than he is probably willing to do on the test site - basically make into a money site anyway.

            Oh don't get me wrong. I wouldn't touch a client like that with a 10-foot pole. I know there are plenty of others that will though.
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    • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
      Originally Posted by BrianFish View Post

      Is it unreasonable to ask an SEO professional to allow me to approve of any back links prior to them being submitted?
      Yes despite what Yukon told you it most definitely is unreasonable . Its fine to be asked to be shown some of the kind of backlinks but I don't know of any good SEO that could do their job that way having to sit waiting for approval for each individual link he works on. Plus it screams distrust that no professional SEO is going to feel good about.

      Hire someone you can trust let them tell you their process and if that is not good enough while seeing some of the links then you probably should do it yourself because what you really would be telling the SEO professional is that you know his job better than he does. I'd find that highly annoying and so would every SEO I know I think.
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      • Profile picture of the author yukon
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        Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

        Yes despite what Yukon told you it most definitely is unreasonable . Its fine to be asked to be shown some of the kind of backlinks but I don't know of any good SEO that could do their job that way having to sit waiting for approval for each individual link he works on. Plus it screams distrust that no professional SEO is going to feel good about.

        Hire someone you can trust let them tell you their process and if that is not good enough while seeing some of the links then you probably should do it yourself because what you really would be telling the SEO professional is that you know his job better than he does. I'd find that highly annoying and so would every SEO I know I think.
        Your thinking like a link builder, any business person with half a brain shouldn't hire an SEO without doing research/testing on the provider. Granted there's a lot of clueless people (people in general) buying SEO without having a clue.

        There's zero trust on an unknown, good grief even testimonials are mostly BS on the web.

        No way would I trust 99.99% of people claiming to sell SEO, when it's usually junk link builders. Lets see how long it takes the WF for hire crew to chime in with their sales pitch, lol.
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        • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
          Originally Posted by yukon View Post

          Your thinking like a link builder,
          Just silliness from you . You are talking like a person who has never done SEO professionally for any company (and I mean that literally because last I checked you never have)

          any business person with half a brain shouldn't hire an SEO without doing research/testing on the provider.
          You know what a strawman is Yuke? Where did I say not to research the SEO? but no its because I am not a "link builder" I know buying a ten dollar domain and putting up some crap site would not pass the muster of a professional SEO.

          I'd want to see a real site before I even took the client
          I'd want to improve its content
          I'd want to update its on page

          and by the time the OP put the site into a position where I'd link to it he'd already have done a pile load of work or I would have done it for him that it would be a money site

          Research for a good SEO is done by referral and given a good budget by looking at previous sites ranked (anyone who shows that to anyone on WF is an idiot though. its not just buyers of SEO that have risk) and by asking the right questions

          Sorry not by creating a fake crap site that a good SEO wouldn't want to work with or if he did would not reflect his best work since the site is garbage to begin with.
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          • Profile picture of the author yukon
            Banned
            Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

            but no its because I am not a "link builder"
            ...said the guy selling DIY link farms.
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            • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
              Originally Posted by yukon View Post

              ...said the guy selling DIY link farms.
              Said the guy that uses scrapebox to find expired domains for his own link farm

              Whats up yuke? Thought that was on Page SEO
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    • Profile picture of the author Ben Acharyaa
      Originally Posted by BrianFish View Post

      I can appreciate that and I am learning - I just feel like I could use some help along the way.

      Is it unreasonable to ask an SEO professional to allow me to approve of any back links prior to them being submitted?
      Yes you're being unreasonable. If you knew what links would help you get better rankings or save you from google's wrath then you'd be doing it yourself. You dont know squat about this whole damn thing and hence you're looking to hire an "Expert". So demanding every back link to be approved by you first is completely unreasonable. It doesnt make any sense.
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  • Profile picture of the author BrianFish
    Thats exactly what I am thinking! I have a new site with some content and its position #4 on yahoo and bing - it has maybe 5 pages of content today.

    I can add content and will be but I would like to see the flip side with the backlinks handled by an SEO expert so I can see the work.

    I guess my fear (maybe irrational) is where are the back links placed - how do I know if they arent on some shady places just waiting for another Google update - thats where I am coming from
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  • Profile picture of the author MikeFriedman
    Like I said, as long as it is not a local SEO project, that should be fine. I wouldn't try anything like that on a local project though. I've seen some really slow/bad results on a couple of local projects where the business tried to switch the focus from one domain to another.
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  • Profile picture of the author Danny Shaw
    You have to understand a least the basics of SEO and always ask for a portfolio or access to previous client reviews and links to website projects. You can then check rankings for your self. Experts mainly have years of experience and will be able to give you access to this information easily.
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  • Profile picture of the author inetguru_987
    Unless this company is going to create a network of sites that only link to you then I would proceed with extreme caution. A lot of SEO companies will put backlinks to your site from their public network which can get you ranking but has a much higher chance of being caught and you getting slapped. When you share links on a single site with an auto dealer, furniture moving company and seo company it starts to become high risk and should be avoided in my opinion.

    If I was going to rank your site, (which I don't take on clients by the way). I would take a look at your keywords your going after, your website to make sure it in good shape, take a look at the competition and give you an idea of how many websites it will take to get you ranking. Assuming your not in some highly competitive niche and your website is in good shape as far as being optimized and has a decent amount of content. It shouldn't take more than 1 to 2 months to see some good results. The websites I would build will be expired domains with content related to your niche. You would be the only site that would have a link on these sites. The websites would all be good quality with more than a single page of content.

    This route would be more expensive but worth it in the end. If I did this for clients I also wouldn't have any issue showing you what I did for another client in detail as long as I had that client's permission.
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    • Profile picture of the author timpears
      Originally Posted by inetguru_987 View Post

      When you share links on a single site with an auto dealer, furniture moving company and seo company it starts to become high risk and should be avoided in my opinion.
      I don't think any competent expert would link in such a manor. I would only link from a niche specific blog, and if I didn't have one, I would create one. That can get spendy with the price of high 'PR' domains, but it is the only way to go. IMHO
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      • Profile picture of the author sonjay
        Originally Posted by timpears View Post

        That can get spendy with the price of high 'PR' domains, but it is the only way to go. IMHO
        For lack of a better way to say it.. I agree with you, Tim.

        To rank a website nowadays must involve at least one other website with relevance and authority. You creating the content makes the website relevant. Google having assigned PageRank to a domain name, makes it more or less authoritative or the best chance to become an authority website (again).

        Whatever the strategy being used, the SEO guy must at least be incorporating one such method that covers relevance and authority.. and as of now, the only way for this to happen is by re-purposing expired PageRank-ed domains..
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    • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
      Originally Posted by inetguru_987 View Post

      Unless this company is going to create a network of sites that only link to you then I would proceed with extreme caution.

      Impractical.. That would cost a pretty penny even with expired domains that I doubt seriously even 1 percent of the people on this site have for a budget
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      • Profile picture of the author inetguru_987
        Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

        Impractical.. That would cost a pretty penny even with expired domains that I doubt seriously even 1 percent of the people on this site have for a budget
        Definitely would cost more. I guess it all depends on how much potential money is in that niche or what it is worth to the business. Of course if it takes 50+ sites to get it to rank then it would be cost prohibitive to outsource but 10 to 20 sites I think a few hundred a month would be reasonable.
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  • Profile picture of the author JamesGw
    Protip: Most legitimate SEO companies are going to charge you at least $250/month for full services. If you find someone who charges less, then they're probably not very legit because the amount of time you need to put into proper outreach and content creation is pretty high. Most bogus companies won't have the balls to charge that much.

    Either way, I'd suggest talking to the expert and asking them questions about anchor text variation and how they build their links. If you have a general understanding of SEO, you should be able to tell whether or not they're right for you.
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  • Profile picture of the author ronrule
    Originally Posted by BrianFish View Post

    So I am interested in possibly hiring an SEO expert with help in back linking for one of my sites. But with the recent changes to Google Algorithms and hearing people losing their rankings how do I know that whomever I hire isnt doing something shady just to boost my rankings?

    How does someone know whether the person they are hiring for backlinks isnt doing something disastrous?

    I cant afford to waste money on bad tactics. Thanks!
    Why not just do PPC instead?

    The Decreasing Importance of SEO

    You're "paying for traffic" either way - either by paying someone to optimize your site, which will be ongoing, or paying per click. The difference is that while you have very little control over your SEO results, you always have complete control over your paid traffic. No sense in worrying about the words you can rank on, when you can drive paid traffic on any words you want... If you want to be #1 for a keyword, it's yours. If you want traffic from a word TODAY, you can get it. Why spend time writing "Google friendly" content, then paying someone to optimize and build links, when you can just build a page that converts better than any "SEO friendly" page, completely ignore the "rules" of SEO, and drive traffic to it? My organic traffic barely converts at 2%, while my paid campaigns convert at 4-15%. For me, PPC ends up being cheaper every time.
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    • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
      Originally Posted by ronrule View Post

      The difference is that while you have very little control over your SEO results, you always have complete control over your paid traffic. No sense in worrying about the words you can rank on, when you can drive paid traffic on any words you want... If you want to be #1 for a keyword, it's yours. If you want traffic from a word TODAY, you can get it..
      Ron there a good argument for PPC in some niches and situations but its not as simple as "you want to be #1 its yours" Sure at what price? and because you convert with your product at 15% doesn't mean many will. People have lost their shirt with PPC. Unlike SEO there is no way of doing it without spending chunks upfront.

      Finally, maybe you are the exception, but most people crying over algos the last few years have not been investing in the right SEO but link spam, Vps and autobot software.
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      • Profile picture of the author ronrule
        Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

        Ron there a good argument for PPC in some niches and situations but its not as simple as "you want to be #1 its yours" Sure at what price? and because you convert with your product at 15% doesn't mean many will. People have lost their shirt with PPC. Unlike SEO there is no way of doing it without spending chunks upfront.

        Finally, maybe you are the exception, but most people crying over algos the last few years have not been investing in the right SEO but link spam, Vps and autobot software.
        You probably have a different take on this because you get SEO and are capable of doing it yourself. When someone else has to commit a budget and pay someone to manage it the way you would, they can end up spending the same money or more as a PPC campaign to get those results. The difference is with PPC those costs are controlled... whether you're #1 or #10, you're paying what you can afford and can put all of your focus into increasing conversions instead of just increasing traffic.

        I used to be among those who struggled with PPC (especially given that most of my products are $19.95, it was nearly impossible to even reach a break-even point). What it came down to was that I, like most people, was mixing strategies - we design pages to be "search engine friendly" but search friendly doesn't usually equate to conversion friendly. Organic traffic was converting at 1-2%, and paid traffic was converting about the same overall.

        The "lightbulb moment" for me was the day I realized I could do a better job of targeting my paid traffic without the burden of the rules of SEO. Mistake #1 was sending people to the homepage. Mistake #2 was sending people to the same page that was optimized to attract organic traffic, instead of being optimized for conversions. So what we would do is create separate landing pages for the paid campaigns; that way the overall site could stay "Google friendly" but a paid visitor coming in from an ad could have a highly focused page that's all about solving their problem (by getting them to buy the product) and expedite the checkout process, without the fluff of bloated keyword-based content, search-friendly use of H tags and other on-page elements, etc. That made a huge difference in the conversion rates, and in the end we were turning more visitors into sales for the same dollar spent.

        Another benefit was to create landing pages that were based on the feature-benefit the customer was searching for - for a product that was dual function, like a high speed polisher/sander, there are two audiences for it: people searching for power sanders, and people searching for a buffer to wax their car. Rather than sending both of those visitors to the same product page, one page could be all about its uses as a buffer and only casually mention its sanding capabilities, and vice versa. Granted you could deploy this strategy with SEO too, but all of the content optimization required to organically rank means you're weakening the conversion capabilities of the page in favor of traffic - and there may be dozens of relevant keywords you could use to drive someone to that page in a PPC scenario, whereas with SEO you could only focus on a couple.

        It does take a budget, no question, but so does a proper SEO campaign for someone who isn't capable of doing it themselves. If nothing else, I always encourage people to do PPC as a test before they start an SEO campaign - There's nothing worse than saying "I want to rank for XX," waiting weeks with no sales to get there, and then learning XX doesn't convert because the BUYERS are searching for YY. Start with PPC, test a variety of keywords, and then if you think it's worth it optimize around the ones that converted best.
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        • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
          Originally Posted by ronrule View Post

          You probably have a different take on this because you get SEO and are capable of doing it yourself. When someone else has to commit a budget and pay someone to manage it the way you would, they can end up spending the same money or more as a PPC campaign to get those results. The difference is with PPC those costs are controlled...

          Well....no not exactly. I grant you the point of PPC for testing. Thats quick and a good strategy however there are SEO customers that are ranking for years moving say from 1 to 4 and they are not all paying much (mainly maintenance) and some none at all after the initial rankingfor quite some time. So your same money is not accurate over the long term for many people. You have to be paying for your placement and traffic constantly in many serps the person can stop or downside and still retain position and traffic

          of course thats not the same if its all spam links

          "So what we would do is create separate landing pages for the paid campaigns;
          Yes definitely agree. If you are taking about landing pages rather than normal sites then I would go PPC. Thin pages and sites don't do well anyway in SEO. So it really depends on the niche and product.

          The conversion focus makes sense to move product but that tends also to shy away from creating sites that have return traffic as well. So theres a give and a take with everything.

          So we agree on PPC for testing and for certain niches and quick conversions but we disagree on costs over the long haul. SEO can work out FAR cheaper than paying per click forever and we definitely disagree that you control costs. PPC cost per click can rise on you with just a few competitors.
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    • Profile picture of the author GGpaul
      Originally Posted by ronrule View Post

      Why not just do PPC instead?

      The Decreasing Importance of SEO

      You're "paying for traffic" either way - either by paying someone to optimize your site, which will be ongoing, or paying per click. The difference is that while you have very little control over your SEO results, you always have complete control over your paid traffic. No sense in worrying about the words you can rank on, when you can drive paid traffic on any words you want... If you want to be #1 for a keyword, it's yours. If you want traffic from a word TODAY, you can get it. Why spend time writing "Google friendly" content, then paying someone to optimize and build links, when you can just build a page that converts better than any "SEO friendly" page, completely ignore the "rules" of SEO, and drive traffic to it? My organic traffic barely converts at 2%, while my paid campaigns convert at 4-15%. For me, PPC ends up being cheaper every time.
      Trust me Ron, I've made that suggestion a while back with someone who needed help on his dating site.

      Instead I got bashed on by some guy named godoveryou or something on here and claimed I don't know anything. All good.
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    • Profile picture of the author cindypark
      Originally Posted by ronrule View Post

      Why not just do PPC instead?

      The Decreasing Importance of SEO

      You're "paying for traffic" either way - either by paying someone to optimize your site, which will be ongoing, or paying per click. The difference is that while you have very little control over your SEO results, you always have complete control over your paid traffic. No sense in worrying about the words you can rank on, when you can drive paid traffic on any words you want... If you want to be #1 for a keyword, it's yours. If you want traffic from a word TODAY, you can get it. Why spend time writing "Google friendly" content, then paying someone to optimize and build links, when you can just build a page that converts better than any "SEO friendly" page, completely ignore the "rules" of SEO, and drive traffic to it? My organic traffic barely converts at 2%, while my paid campaigns convert at 4-15%. For me, PPC ends up being cheaper every time.
      im working as an SEO for more than 3yrs,and a newbie on PPC.I totally agree with you that PPC will give you more ROI than SEO.
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  • Profile picture of the author timpears
    There is no free lunch. PPC or SEO, take your choice. You can do it yourself, if you value your time less than your money. We only have so much time, money is never ending. You can have all of it you want, if you will just reach out there and take it.
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  • Profile picture of the author seoace
    1 good advice that I can give is to ask the SEO "expert" on what tactics he does when his clients got hit by a penalty.

    If he gives you an explanation around the lines of... "my clients don't get hit by a penalty" then that's a huge red flag right there.

    He's those SEOs that promises the "dream" for $300 or less.

    Look for someone who can explain what his tactics are to recover his clients from a penalty for Panda, Penguin and Hummingbird.

    Note: There is a huge difference between a link building service and a SEO service.
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    Who else needs a SEO Client Dashboard for their SEO services ?
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  • Profile picture of the author Dsdomination
    Whoever will land on your team be prepared to test his skills even though you know basic SEO.

    1. Basic principles of SEO
    2. On page
    3. Google policy
    4. White hat techniques
    5. Natural backlinks
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  • Profile picture of the author speakarea
    The seo expert have the proper knowledge about the seo and hire those seo expert who have the knowledge about the seo.
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  • Profile picture of the author NShankar
    Do all the seo work yourself or hand it over to freelancers with instructions and follow up the work done by them to ensure that they are original and safe. Avoid using any kind of automated tools for link building.

    1) Publish only original and informative contents. (not just copyscape passed but non readable junk contents).
    2) Create and Publish Infographic in your niche and share them in social media and niche relevant sites
    3) Create and Publish videos in youtube, vimeo etc
    4) Create your profile and build your group in facebook, google+, linkedin and twitter. Share the trends related to your niche / site with them.
    5) Publish articles in niche relevant sites. (Do not buy them or look only for dofollow). The point here is to get targeted traffic to your site.
    6) Contribute in the Niche specific forums and establish yourself as expert.

    Also keep constant watch on current seo trends, google algorithm changes and updates.
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