What is your REAL competition? Quotes or no quotes.

Steven Carl Kelly

15 years ago

It depends on how you define "competition". And remember, very few people do regular searches using quote marks.

Thanks
1 reply

Signature

Read this SURPRISING REPORT Before You Buy ANY WSO! Click Here
FREE REPORT: Split Test Your Landing Pages the Easy Way

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[910895].message }}

cashcow

15 years ago

I say it's with no quotes. I know everyone says that when you use the quotes that is your true competition as it indicates those who are likely optimizing for it.

BUT, when you search with no quotes (which most people do), you will find the sites that GOOGLE thinks are best for that keyword. These are really the ones you have to beat with better on page and off page SEO.

At least, that's what I think .... I'm no expert though so take it for whatever it is worth!

Lee

Thanks
2 replies

Signature

Gone Fishing

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[910912].message }}

Steven Carl Kelly

15 years ago

Originally Posted by cashcow

I say it's with no quotes. I know everyone says that when you use the quotes that is your true competition as it indicates those who are likely optimizing for it.

And only some of those are actually optimizing for the keywords. For a real look at who's optimizing, Google the keywords an add "allintitle" and "allinurl" operators.

That result better defines the "true competition" for me.

Thanks

Signature

Read this SURPRISING REPORT Before You Buy ANY WSO! Click Here
FREE REPORT: Split Test Your Landing Pages the Easy Way

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[910923].message }}

Intrepreneur 15 years ago

Your real compeition is.

Domain Age
Allintitle
Quotes
Backlinks
Content
PR
Relevance
On Site Seo

That's your competition.
- Thanks
Signature
SEO, copywriting and backlinks service UK
{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[910924].message }}

nossie

15 years ago

You have to use both in your competition analysis.

For example a rule I always use for myself to dominate niches:

no quotes < 1 million
quotes < 50.000

If you search for your keyword with NO quotation marks and you see ALOT of high authority pages (Ebay, Wikipedia, Amazon, other big .com brands) and websites with 5000+ backlinks just forget about it even if results with quotes are lower then 5.000

The key is, if you dont see any authority sites in the top10, you will have a much higher chance of ranking. Look for web2.0 properties in the results, if you see them that means competition is beatable.

You will also come past results like this:

no-quotes: 100 million
quotes: 1000

If i get results like this, im not going to try to rank for it. way to much pages that "could' be competing with me.

Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[910938].message }}

affiliated survivor

15 years ago

The search results for in quotes and without quotes differ. Sitepages that appear in quotes are optimized for that keyword. On page Seo for that keyword. When searching without quotes there may be different websites/pages on the first page. Pages that are relevant for the subject but not specially optimized for that particular search term. These sites/pages made it to the first spots because of their high PR.
If you want a spot on the first page you have to beat these sites/pages also. Not only the ones that appeared in quotes. But these pages are easier to beat with highly optimized content for the search term of that Google page. However, the other ones that appeared in quotes, cannot be easily beaten with very relevant content. Since they are also very relevant for that search term.
If there are a lot of sites/pages in quotes there are a lot to outrank. Some may even have a high PR. The more there are, the more difficult it will be to get to the first page.
But one should never only rely on these numbers. There are merely an indication.

Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[910966].message }}

affiliated survivor

15 years ago

@Nossie
Things like Amazon, Ebay and so on can be beaten. Their homepage may have a high PR, but not all of their subpages. Sometimes these subpages on the first page aren´t even indexed. Unfortunately this is also a bad sign. If Amazon or Ebay and the likes don´t do much effort to get more backlinks for a given page, they usually do not make much money with that search term.

Thanks
1 reply

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[910990].message }}

Michael Gavre

15 years ago

Ahhh.... the old quotes vs no quotes thread again :-)

You will likely get a wide variety of answers voting for both camps in this debate. I was always of the camp that believed that the true competition was those websites that were optimized for your keyword phrase, therefore "quotes".

That is until recently...

I was reading a thread here on the warrior forum and a member made an argument that really changed my way of thinking about this. I wish I could remember who it was so that I could thank him/her. I have taken what they said and internalized it and made my own strategic plan out of it.

Basically, my thoughts about this are now:

Your real competition are those 10 websites on the first page of Google. In reality it is probably only the top 3 websites as that is what I aim for.

It doesn't matter how many results show up in Google when you type in your keyword, with or without quotes. The number of pages showing up is irrelevant.

What matters is the 'Strength' of the Competition (SoC).

For example, Which scenario would you rather tackle?

Scenario #1: Search for KEYWORD shows 230,000 results. Search for "KEYWORD" shows 4,500 results. Your Due diligence shows that half the sites have your KEYWORD in the title and in the URL, have a PR 4 or higher and many backlinks etc...

or

Scenario #2: Search for KEYWORD shows 2,230,000 results. Search for "KEYWORD" shows 450,000 results. Your Due diligence shows that half the top ten are 2.0 properties, with little or no backlinks, low PR etc...

I don't know about you, but I would much rather tackle Scenario #2 as it appears to be an easier road to the top.

After all, isn't that the goal. If you want to be on top, you have to beat the results that are currently on top.

The number of results doesn't matter, just the quality of the competition.

My two cents anyways...

Michael

[ 1 ] Thanks
1 reply

Signature

Funnels Dramatically Increase Conversions !! Let me Give you a FREE FUNNEL !!

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[911126].message }}

Steven Carl Kelly

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Michael Gavre

Basically, my thoughts about this are now:

Your real competition are those 10 websites on the first page of Google. In reality it is probably only the top 3 websites as that is what I am for.

This is it in a nutshell. The sites on the first page of Google are what you are COMPETING against for clicks. Not for sales or conversions, but for CLICKS.

Thanks
1 reply

Signature

Read this SURPRISING REPORT Before You Buy ANY WSO! Click Here
FREE REPORT: Split Test Your Landing Pages the Easy Way

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[911272].message }}

Ashley Gable

15 years ago

Originally Posted by ebiz26

You absolutely must use quotes to see your real competition. This has nothing to do with searchers using quotes at all, its the way of seeing the number of competing web pages for your keyword.

Im sick of seeing people boast how they rank #1 out of 81 million or whatever but if you put quotes around the keyword phrase you see their real competition is only 1,240 or something low. Again nothing to do with people searching using quotes, just a way to see how many competing pages there are for your keyword phrase.

ah ha! This is what I meant when I asked about "true" competition. I was meaning how many other "people" are optimizing for that keyword.

However, and this is why I asked, if the quoted results come up at 2,000 , do you think that is a fair representation of the actual competition, in my niche. Not necesarrily in the search results.

Originally Posted by Michael Gavre

Ahhh.... the old quotes vs no quotes thread again :-)

You will likely get a wide variety of answers voting for both camps in this debate. I was always of the camp that believed that the true competition was those websites that were optimized for your keyword phrase, therefore "quotes".

That is until recently...

I was reading a thread here on the warrior forum and a member made an argument that really changed my way of thinking about this. I wish I could remember who it was so that I could thank him/her. I have taken what they said and internalized it and made my own strategic plan out of it.

Basically, my thoughts about this are now:

Your real competition are those 10 websites on the first page of Google. In reality it is probably only the top 3 websites as that is what I aim for.

It doesn't matter how many results show up in Google when you type in your keyword, with or without quotes. The number of pages showing up is irrelevant.

What matters is the 'Quality' of the competition.

For example, Which scenario would you rather tackle?

Scenario #1: Search for KEYWORD shows 230,000 results. Search for "KEYWORD" shows 4,500 results. Your Due diligence shows that half the sites have your KEYWORD in the title and in the URL, have a PR 4 or higher and many backlinks etc...

or

Scenario #2: Search for KEYWORD shows 2,230,000 results. Search for "KEYWORD" shows 450,000 results. Your Due diligence shows that half the top ten are 2.0 properties, with little or no backlinks, low PR etc...

I don't know about you, but I would much rather tackle Scenario #2 as it appears to be an easier road to the top.

After all, isn't that the goal. If you want to be on top, you have to beat the results that are currently on top.

The number of results doesn't matter, just the quality of the competition.

My two cents anyways...

Michael

This post was fantastic, you really do make sense. I am a newbie and when I am researching a keyword and i see millions of results, my heart stops! It frightens me lol I am trying, since I am new, to practice in the smaller niches, BUT seeing how you put it, I should probably look a little closer!!

Thanks for the help everyone!

Thanks
1 reply

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[911357].message }}

Steven Carl Kelly

15 years ago

Originally Posted by AshleyAA

However, and this is why I asked, if the quoted results come up at 2,000 , do you think that is a fair representation of the actual competition, in my niche. Not necesarrily in the search results.

Perhaps. But the question becomes: why is that number important to you?

Thanks

Signature

Read this SURPRISING REPORT Before You Buy ANY WSO! Click Here
FREE REPORT: Split Test Your Landing Pages the Easy Way

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[911456].message }}

affiliated survivor

15 years ago

No, I don´t believe in researching just no. 1-3. Why not?
Assume 1-3 all have a PR4. But in one case it´s about a long tailed keyword with 50,000 competitors in broad match and 1,000 in phrase match. The other one is a "one word" search term what usually means competiton is about the same in broad, phrase or exact match. Competition is also 50,000. First, if there are 50,000 competitors for that keyword, Google will be reluctant in even indexing your new page. In my experience keywords with much competition take ages to get indexed.
Than it is much harder to even get to the first page. You don´t only have to beat a few websites, from whom a lot may be actually dead websites, for relevancy. You have to be more relevant and have more/better backlinks than 50.000. It is much harder and takes much longer to even reach the first page.

Thanks
1 reply

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[911464].message }}

Steven Carl Kelly 15 years ago

Originally Posted by affiliated survivor

First, if there are 50,000 competitors for that keyword, Google will be reluctant in even indexing your new page.

I'm not sure what you base this on. I don't find it difficult to get Google to index any site at all, regardless of the amount of "competition" for a keyword.
- Thanks
Signature

Read this SURPRISING REPORT Before You Buy ANY WSO! Click Here
FREE REPORT: Split Test Your Landing Pages the Easy Way
{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[911532].message }}

freelistfool

15 years ago

Your competition is the keyword without quotes. This is because people search without quotes. That's where you want to focus your attention.

Thanks
1 reply

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[911982].message }}

Intrepreneur 15 years ago

Originally Posted by freelistfool

Your competition is the keyword without quotes. This is because people search without quotes. That's where you want to focus your attention.

Just a tip to help you

This is what you should be looking for as you seem a little bit muddled I thought I'd let you know how to really find your competiton.

Domain Age
Allintitle
Quotes
Backlinks
Content
PR
Relevance
On Site Seo
- Thanks
Signature
SEO, copywriting and backlinks service UK
{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[911989].message }}

Michael Gavre

15 years ago

Intrepreneur is correct. See my post further up this page (post#9). It doesn't matter how many pages show up in quotes or without quotes, all that matters is the Strength of the Competition (SoC) of the pages in the top ten listings (1st Page).

Your goal is to be on the first page. There are only 10 spots on the first page (unless you customize your search preferences). These 10 pages are your competition.

You must perform your own due diligence on these 10 pages to find out their (SoC) Strength. Intrepreneur provides a good list of things to look for to find out their (SoC).

If you think you can beat their strength and overpower them, then go for it. It doesn't matter how many results show with or without quotes. All pages can be broken down and analyzed.

You, and only you, can make a determination if you are going to put in enough effort to overtake the top 10 based on their (SoC) that you have performed.

Just my take on the subject anyways...

Michael

Thanks
1 reply

Signature

Funnels Dramatically Increase Conversions !! Let me Give you a FREE FUNNEL !!

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[913761].message }}

Stephen Crooks

15 years ago

Micheal, you are absolutely correct, the top 10 listings in Google are your true competition and it is something I spout on about quite regularly. However I think the question slightly skews your answer a little. The top 10 results usually change if you search for your target keyword in quotes and without which begs the question still about who your real competition is?

My opinion is that your real competition are without quotes for the reasons other people have mentioned in this thread already, i.e. that is the way most people search.. So, the top 10 without quotes should then be analyzed for the strength of competition you mention, backlinks, domain age etc.

This brings up another interesting question, if you check your keyword in quotes with allinurl and allintitle and the domains that get returned are NOT in the top 10 for a normal without quotes search, then are they doing something else wrong? I would suggest they are and could also give you plenty of clues about what not to do.. Things to look for would be irrelevant content, keyword stuffing, lack of content, bad neighbourhood backlinks, poor anchor text in backlinks...

Originally Posted by Michael Gavre

Intrepreneur is correct. See my post further up this page (post#9). It doesn't matter how many pages show up in quotes or without quotes, all that matters is the Strength of the Competition (SoC) of the pages in the top ten listings (1st Page).

Your goal is to be on the first page. There are only 10 spots on the first page (unless you customize your search preferences). These 10 pages are your competition.

You must perform your own due diligence on these 10 pages to find out their (SoC) Strength. Intrepreneur provides a good list of things to look for to find out their (SoC).

If you think you can beat their strength and overpower them, then go for it. It doesn't matter how many results show with or without quotes. All pages can be broken down and analyzed.

You, and only you, can make a determination if you are going to put in enough effort to overtake the top 10 based on their (SoC) that you have performed.

Just my take on the subject anyways...

Michael

Thanks

Signature

Affiliate Marketing Profits 2020 - Step by Step Guides
How to Make $100 a day Online

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[914084].message }}

Michael Gavre

15 years ago

Great Point Steve. I should probably go back and edit my previous post.

I do agree that the true competition is the top 10 listings with your Keyword without Quotes as that is how searchers will type it in.

Thanks

Signature

Funnels Dramatically Increase Conversions !! Let me Give you a FREE FUNNEL !!

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[914211].message }}

Amenda Jessera

15 years ago

Yups, the users will type there without any quotes, so, We have to work towards it. I am sure, a real competition is getting on TOP #3 on google keyword search. It is really hard to maintain it on top #3, however, If you can maintain it on TOP#3 for 8-10 keywords, You will be a rich fellow....

Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[914756].message }}

Nbordeau

15 years ago

I agree that if you maintain top 3 for competitive keywords you'll be rich but if you have 8-10 long tailed keywords with no searches you'll be broke and dumb...

Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[915292].message }}

affiliated survivor

15 years ago

What about the sandbox? Nobody mentioned this so far. The belief is, as I understand it, that Google does not want new websites to rank high for competitive keywords too quick.

Thanks
1 reply

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[916669].message }}

Ashley Gable 15 years ago

hmmm! thanks for all the replies.

This thread has taken on a life of its own!

However, I was actually talking more about people who are actively competing in for my keyword, not necessarily the number of results, but the number of actual competitors. I guess i should say authority sites within the niche.

That said, I think any way you look at it, it doesnt matter! As you all have said your competition is the first 10 spots (or less if you aim higher), so it all boils down to that.

Ashley
- Thanks
{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[925293].message }}

mikemcmillan

15 years ago

Another consideration is the strength of the competition because of the following: In a highly competitive niche, the top ten listings on Google are likely dominated by sites where the creators not only know a lot of SEO, but they have strong sales pages as well. A motivated buyer is more likely to run across a site with a power pitch too good to pass up in the first 5-6 sites listed. Being #16 in the listings won't get you the sales you want.

However, in a thinner market, let's say a new product launch for a Clickbank product, if you get a pre-sell page up a few weeks before the launch date, and backlink the hell out of it, you can rank high on the front page without too much work.

Furthermore, in such cases, even the front page of Google will have a number of weakling sites--which although they have stumbled on to a good ranking--have a weak sales page which no one will buy through. Therefore your competition is actually less than you might think. Ranking well means nothing if your sales page doesn't convert. In thinner niches there are tons of sites that use all the tricks to rank high, but they aren't really competition because people click out immediately when they see the junk they are faced with.

Thanks

Signature

I'll help you create a reputation-building evergreen product in any niche and launch it successfully!
Check it out here.

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[928293].message }}

What is your REAL competition? Quotes or no quotes.

Trending Topics

A healthy fascination for Hollywood...

How did you turn it all around?

Any thoughts on golf's latest phenom...Scottie Scheffler??

What's the Best IM-Related Skill to Learn Today That Can Help in the Future?

best high quality crypto traffic.