15 {{ upvoteCount | shortNum }}
15 {{ upvoteCount | shortNum }}

Keywords and Google

by AlphaWarrior
13 replies
  • SEO
    • |
I was just reviewing several threads about finding keywords and it got me to thinking.

Does Google even care about keywords?
Do keywords actually hurt your site with Google?

From my experience (most recently with a new site) it appears that if your keyword is "blue dotted widgets" and you use those keywords in the domain (blue-dotted-widgets . com), the title (All About Blue Dotted Widgets), the description (How blue dotted widgets make your life better.), sprinkle the words "blue dotted widgets" several times in the content, and for good measure put in a meta keyword tag (even though Google doesn't read the tag) with "blue dotted widgets", somehow or another Google will decide that you are lying and that your site is not about blue dotted widgets, but is actually spam or a porn site or something.

Yesterday, I typed into Google search a single unique word that is applicable and used (to the best of my knowledge) in only 2 websites. Google returned the other site and a host of unrelated sites. My site is indexed with over 75 pages, but it does not show up at all in Google for this single unique word. When I typed the word into Bing search, it returned both my website and the other website.

Again does G even care about keywords and do they actually hurt you with G?
#google #keywords
  • Profile picture of the author yukon
    Banned
    Your talking about optimization which can be controlled, that's up to you.

    Something like best-insurance-rates-atlanta.com is obvious spam.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9436974].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author AlphaWarrior
      Originally Posted by yukon View Post

      Your talking about optimization which can be controlled, that's up to you.

      Something like best-insurance-rates-atlanta.com is obvious spam.
      I am not really talking about optimization. My point is that, to me, it appears that you can do everything that you can do to say what a website is about (the keywords), but Google will not believe you and will pick out from your website whatever it wants, no matter how trivial, to say what your site is about. Google will completely disregard your choice of and emphasis on certain keywords.

      For instance, Google may well say that your website is about shoes and list your website in the "shoe" search returns just because you say somewhere in the content that "blue dotted widgets are not shoes". And you may not even mention shoes anywhere else on the website. The fact that you focus on the certain keywords doesn't phase Google and may actually cause Google to suspect that you are lying.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9437068].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author yukon
        Banned
        Originally Posted by AlphaWarrior View Post

        I am not really talking about optimization. My point is that, to me, it appears that you can do everything that you can do to say what a website is about (the keywords), but Google will not believe you and will pick out from your website whatever it wants, no matter how trivial, to say what your site is about. Google will completely disregard your choice of and emphasis on certain keywords.

        For instance, Google may well say that your website is about shoes and list your website in the "shoe" search returns just because you say somewhere in the content that "blue dotted widgets are not shoes". And you may not even mention shoes anywhere else on the website. The fact that you focus on the certain keywords doesn't phase Google and may actually cause Google to suspect that you are lying.
        Instead of focusing on ranking a single page, focus on ranking a small group of pages for same/similar keywords with good internal links & some external links. Look at the big picture.
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9437083].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author AlphaWarrior
          Originally Posted by yukon View Post

          Instead of focusing on ranking a single page, focus on ranking a small group of pages for same/similar keywords with good internal links & some external links. Look at the big picture.
          That is what I have done. I have several "keywords" and around 20 pages supporting each "keyword". It is a silo structure.

          Honestly, I do not care if Google ranks the website or not. When I started this particular project, I decided that since Google is so unpredictable and finicky, I would not even consider it as a source of traffic.

          The threads on keyword research go me to questioning whether or not Google even cares or pays attention to the keywords on which a website creator is focusing.
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9437672].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author affilliate-script
            Originally Posted by AlphaWarrior View Post

            That is what I have done. I have several "keywords" and around 20 pages supporting each "keyword". It is a silo structure.

            As you have built a silo site, but Google isn't ranking the site well, then it's likely to be a time factor

            I'd expect a new silo site to start ranking well in Google for reasonably competitive search phrases when it's 11 months old - maybe even older

            As you are ranking in Bing, you've done what's required - just that Google is shit
            Signature

            Automatic WordPress Silo Site Plugin and Theme Packages (siloplugin.com)

            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9441568].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author SEO Power
    The keywords your website contains are what Google will think your website is about. So stop assuming that Google would think you are lying and that your website is about something else. Just keep optimising your site and be careful to avoid over-optimisation.
    Signature
    ONE HOUR INDEXING - STOP WASTING MONEY ON LINKS GOOGLE NEVER FINDS
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9437118].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author AlphaWarrior
      Originally Posted by SEO Power View Post

      The keywords your website contains are what Google will think your website is about. So stop assuming that Google would think you are lying and that your website is about something else. Just keep optimising your site and be careful to avoid over-optimisation.
      The very first thing that every guru or seo expert will tell you is to start by finding the right "keywords". I am now questioning whether or not this is true.

      What I have seen in practice is that Google picks and chooses its' own "keywords" for every website page and Google does not care what the website creator says.

      Since Google disregards what website creators say via url, title, description, etc., I can only believe that Google assumes that every website creator is lying about his/her site.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9437708].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author TemplatesforPowerPoint
    Keyword research is most important in SEO. I think for SEO right Keywords research is most important.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9438654].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author AlphaWarrior
      Originally Posted by TemplatesforPowerPoint View Post

      Keyword research is most important in SEO. I think for SEO right Keywords research is most important.
      Why do you say that?

      I agree that keyword research should lead you to a workable niche. But trying to target specific keywords seems to me to be a waste of time. Google doesn't care what keywords you are targeting or even what you think your website is about. Google will decide on its' own what it thinks your keywords are and what your site is about.

      As part evidence of what I am saying, Google does not even read the keyword meta tag. If they cared about what you are trying to target, they would use the keyword meta tag.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9439930].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author dburk
        Originally Posted by AlphaWarrior View Post

        The very first thing that every guru or seo expert will tell you is to start by finding the right "keywords". I am now questioning whether or not this is true.

        What I have seen in practice is that Google picks and chooses its' own "keywords" for every website page and Google does not care what the website creator says.

        Since Google disregards what website creators say via url, title, description, etc., I can only believe that Google assumes that every website creator is lying about his/her site.
        Hi AlphaWarrior,

        Yes, Google does decide on their own what your web page is about, and they generally do not pay attention to any attempts by webmasters to manipulate the keyword relevance outside of what users can expect to find when they arrive at your page.

        One of the reasons the founders of Google launched their search engines was because they noticed that many webmasters were manipulating other search engine results by abusing the meta keyword tag and keyword stuffing their web pages with irrelevant keywords. So, yes Google was founded based on the assumption that not all webmasters can be trusted, particularly when it comes to the competitiveness of ranking in search results.

        Google found a better approach, and that was to ignore the mostly useless meta tags and to decide on their own what a web page is about, based on the content, as rendered, and through examining content on the web of documents that connect to the page (PageRank).

        Originally Posted by AlphaWarrior View Post

        I agree that keyword research should lead you to a workable niche. But trying to target specific keywords seems to me to be a waste of time. Google doesn't care what keywords you are targeting or even what you think your website is about. Google will decide on its' own what it thinks your keywords are and what your site is about.

        As part evidence of what I am saying, Google does not even read the keyword meta tag. If they cared about what you are trying to target, they would use the keyword meta tag.
        It seems that you have a fundamental misunderstanding of what a search engine is and what it does. You are right, search engines do not care what your "website" is about, because search engines do not index "websites", they index individual web pages. Web apps that list "websites" are called web directories and they serve a different function from a search engine.

        Try to keep in mind that there are often many pages that are relevant to a keyword term so search engines, like Google, try to bring the most relevant and useful content to the top and ignore less relevant and less useful content. Google doesn't decide completley on their own about which page is useful and which are not. They also analyse user behavior to verify and adjust the core results.

        So, if you have a page that isn't doing well, in search ranking then it is because Google, or Google's search users have found your page lacking as compared to other pages, for the keyword search term.

        To learn more about how Google uses keywords to index and rank your web pages read Google's guide for search engine optimization
        Signature

        * Get Results - Outsource Your PPC Management |
        *         Don Burk Advertising & Marketing - www.donburk.com

        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9441971].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author richmann
          Originally Posted by dburk View Post

          It seems that you have a fundamental misunderstanding of what a search engine is and what it does. You are right, search engines do not care what your "website" is about, because search engines do not index "websites", they index individual web pages. Web apps that list "websites" are called web directories and they serve a different function from a search engine.
          If search engines truly index pages and not websites would it be possible to have a review site that contains articles on various niches rank well in search engines for those individual pages?
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9447494].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author dburk
            Originally Posted by richmann View Post

            If search engines truly index pages and not websites would it be possible to have a review site that contains articles on various niches rank well in search engines for those individual pages?
            Do you mean like Reviewed.com, Goodhousekeeping.com, and Consumerreports.org? They all do very well ranking their review articles, so yes, indeed.
            Signature

            * Get Results - Outsource Your PPC Management |
            *             Don Burk Advertising & Marketing - www.donburk.com

            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9459838].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Ghoster
    Google now looks at the entire domain in context, not just individual pages. If you are not ranking for that unique term, you need to use it more throughout your entire domain—but only if that keyword is relevant to your domain.

    They don't want to rank a page about yellow widgets that belongs to a site that's about blue whatcha call its.


    You should probably also focus on longtail keywords. Focus on the search string your visitors might put into Google to find your pages.
    Signature

    On the whole, you get what you pay for.

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9439940].message }}

Trending Topics