SEO Silo - keywords mixed

by cmalox
14 replies
  • SEO
  • |
Hello,

I have some questions where I cant find a answer on the forum.
Mainly 2 things I don't know how to do this.

Lets say my main keyword is "E-Liquid" (this is the fluid nicotine solution for e cigarettes)

So I did some keyword research, and the following keywords have a lot of searches (I will translate to English as my language is dutch, so there could be some incorrect grammar)

- Buy E-Liquid
- "buy" "cheap" e-liquid
- where to buy e-liquid
- buy "halo" e-liquid
- buy "liqua" e-liquid
- buy "joyetech" e-liquid
- buy "dekang" e-liquid
- buy e-liquid in "store"
- buy e-liquid in "Netherlands"

- Cheap E-Liquid
- "buy" "cheap" e-liquid
- cheap e-liquid quality
- where to "buy" cheap e-liquid
- cheap "halo" e-liquid
- "cheap" e-liquid store
- cheap e-liquid in "Netherlands"


- E-Liquid Brands
- "best" e-liquid "brand"
- "liqua" e-liquid
- "joyetech" e-liquid
- "dekang" e-liquid
- dutch e-liquid brand
- e-liquid brand from netherlands

- Best E-Liquid
- "buy" "best" e-liquid
- "best" e-liquid store
- best e-liquid "brand"
- best "cheap" e-liquid
- where to "buy" "best "e-liquid
- "best" e-liquid netherlands

- E-Liquid reviews
- e-liquid "brands" reviews
- reviews "cheap" e-liquid
- "best" e-liquid review
- "halo" e-liquid review
- "Joyetech" e-liquid review

As you see there are a lot of sub pages, which contain keywords from different Silo Pages, which as I can think of could fit in multiple silo's

Examples:
"buy cheap e-liquid can fit in "buy e-liquid" but also in "cheap e-liquid"
"buy Dekang e-liquid" can fit in "buy e-liquid" but also in "e-liquid brands" (Dekang is a brand name)

Lets say my domain name is: www.e-liquid-store.nl (would this be a good domain choice btw?)


So the problem that I experience is that once I get some deeper keywords, it is unclear for me in which silo I should place it...

A other option might be a wider main theme for example: "Electronic Cigarettes"
So e-liquid can be a Silo instead of main topic:

Electronic Cigarettes
- E-Liquid
-- best e-liquid
--- ......
--- ......
--- ......
-- cheap e-liquid
--- ......
--- ......
--- ......
-- buy e-liquid
--- ......
--- .......
--- .......
-- e-liquid brands
--- .....
--- .......

But this causes the same mystery for me.
Where should I place:
"Buy cheap e-liquid"
"best e-liquid brands"
"where to buy cheap e-liquid"
"where to buy best e-liquid"
"buy brand name e-liquid
"cheap e-liquid brand"

Am I completely misunderstanding SILO?

bump anyone?
#keywords #mixed #seo #silo
  • Profile picture of the author misshang
    hi. I think it should be:

    1st tier
    E-Liquid

    2nd tier
    Buy E-Liquid
    Cheap E-Liquid
    E-Liquid Brands
    Best E-Liquid
    E-Liquid reviews

    3rd tier are others you put under the 2nd tier category

    and that make the silo
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    • Profile picture of the author godoveryou
      Site structure advice like this is normally the type of thing that people pay for to be honest. It's a core component of white-hat SEO. That having been said, I'll type up something real quick to get you started.

      NOTE: I began typing my reply when I realize that this question is almost impossible to answer well with the very limited information you provided. I'll do my best but... this is pretty much just going to be a one-sided way of looking at it. All of the data will be skewed by what the keyword lists ACTUALLY are. Further More, I have no idea how tight you want the silo. Extremely tight silo's are often harder to navigate for users than dual-plane silos, as I'm going to talk about briefly below. I'm going to make the assumption that you want to make sales and not just jerk-off Googlebot so my answer will be based on dual-plane silos. Back to the post.....

      I'm going to assume that you are using wordpress. Why? Because it runs about 1/6th of the internet.

      Your homepage should have content about your primary keyword "E-liquid" and maybe a few longtails about E-liquid that isn't covered in the silo's. You are going to have to make a judgement call here on how you link to your categories and posts from the homepage. I personally run my sites like magazines and have links out to posts within categories directly on the homepage. If you don't do that, consider linking out to categories from the homepage.

      In this case, you will want to add custom content to your category pages and have them indexed. The custom content is important for several reasons:

      A) To keep them from being purely duplicate content.
      B) They will act as landing pages for search traffic and you should be prepared to monetize off them, or at least test monetizing off them.
      C) They will complete the silo and without the unique content and having them indexed, you break the silo.

      So, figure out what you have to do to add content to your category pages. There's a variety of plugins that will get you there but some themes don't play nice with them. You just need to know from the beginning that they are needed so this is not something you can skip.

      From here you will have to actually get into the nuts and bolts of your silo's. Are these keywords the COMPLETE list? We've got to know upfront because it can radically change how you plan your site structure.

      For instance, if each individual brand has 2 dozen possible long tails then you may consider making each brand it's own category with "Cheap (brand) E-Liquid" "Buy (brand) E-Liquid" "(brand) E-Liquid Reviews" "(brand) E-Liquid Testimonials" etc being the long tails.

      IF each brand doesn't have a few dozen longtails, then it makes more sense to split them up as you have them for the most part. This is really the problem with not knowing exactly what the content strategy is for the site - I can only guess at what you really are working with in terms of keywords. So, you're going to have to figure all of this out before you make any categories, etc.

      If you do it this way, then the tagging should be uniform among all of the brand posts. In other words "Cheap (brand 1) E-Liquid" and "Cheap (brand2-xx) E-Liquid" should have the same tags as well, being Cheap E-liquid for instance. By the same token "(brand 1) E-Liquid reviews" and "(brand 2-xx) E-Liquid reviews" should all be tagged uniformly as well with something like "Reviews" or "E-liquid reviews"

      TIP: Just like you add custom content to your categories, you should also do the same with the tag pages. This is another reason that the tags between like posts should be uniform among topics - so that you can create effective tag content and create secondary silo's among all reviews for instance - if we were still going on the idea that we had 12-24 longtails per brand name.

      Separating by brand in this way also solves the problem with your "Buy" keywords... IE "Buy (brand) E-liquid" will then fall into the silo for the brand it fits with and should be tagged with "Buy E-Liquid."

      The bottom line is that you are now breaking up these random words that only vaguely have something to do with each other and giving them specific placements within your domain. Google doesn't really care which words are categories versus which words are tags other than when it comes to the navigation bar - but I solve that pretty easily by putting the tags directly into the navigation as well.

      So navigation might look like:

      Home - Information (dropdown*) - Brand 1 - Brand 2 - Brand 3 - Brand4 - etc

      The information drop down will then link to:
      Best Brands
      Brand Reviews
      Buy E-Liquids
      Cheap E-Liquids

      That way you are covering all of your silo's in the navigation which is a huge deal because of how Google interacts with/ranks/displays navigation items.

      ****This was just a real general overview and it's not complete. I have about 1/4 of the total information required to tell you how I would structure the site. I need to know all sorts of other data that just wasn't included in your post and quite frankly, if you do add it later, I won't care. You need to consider how many longtails there are, what the search volumes are, how many 'groups' you really have (fewer brands mean lay out my way, more brands mean lay out in the reverse direction using tags as categories and categories as tags.)

      Good luck

      EDIT IN: as I read the post, I know some noob is going to roll in and bash the tags. They make the difference between a single-plane silo structure and a dual-plane silo structure. If you are more comfortable jerking off Googlebot and hurting your user experience, then by all means use a traditional single-plane structure and ignore the tags... but I think you would be making a mistake. Some users want to shop by brand, others earlier in the decision process will want to browse reviews first. You're much better offer grouping these things together with the intelligent use of tagging. It also has the side effect of making a tag cloud something that can actually be usable as opposed to a disjointed mess of word soup.

      EDIT IN 2: I use tags to simplify my category construction but if you are really against tags, you can also place posts into multiple categories. In other words, instead of having "E-Liquid Reviews" as a tag as described above, you can make it a category as well. The big thing here is the unique content and on a category/tag like reviews it should be aimed to sell or declare and "Winner" to get someone further down the decision making process and onto a commission for you. No need to write a novel, write to sell (or presell). In other words, it's not the place for information - that will go into each individual post. Instead write to summarize the big points on why it is the best and obvious choice for them. 300-600 words typically sells well in my experience - this isn't a long form sales letter! Your reader will fatigue if you do too much there. Besides, you will probably capture impulse buyers here and you can't risk boring them. The buyers that need more detailed information will naturally move on to the full review articles anyways.
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      • Profile picture of the author cmalox
        Originally Posted by godoveryou View Post

        Site structure advice like this is normally the type of thing that people pay for to be honest. It's a core component of white-hat SEO. That having been said, I'll type up something real quick to get you started.

        NOTE: I began typing my reply when I realize that this question is almost impossible to answer well with the very limited information you provided. I'll do my best but... this is pretty much just going to be a one-sided way of looking at it. All of the data will be skewed by what the keyword lists ACTUALLY are. Further More, I have no idea how tight you want the silo. Extremely tight silo's are often harder to navigate for users than dual-plane silos, as I'm going to talk about briefly below. I'm going to make the assumption that you want to make sales and not just jerk-off Googlebot so my answer will be based on dual-plane silos. Back to the post.....

        I'm going to assume that you are using wordpress. Why? Because it runs about 1/6th of the internet.

        Your homepage should have content about your primary keyword "E-liquid" and maybe a few longtails about E-liquid that isn't covered in the silo's. You are going to have to make a judgement call here on how you link to your categories and posts from the homepage. I personally run my sites like magazines and have links out to posts within categories directly on the homepage. If you don't do that, consider linking out to categories from the homepage.

        In this case, you will want to add custom content to your category pages and have them indexed. The custom content is important for several reasons:

        A) To keep them from being purely duplicate content.
        B) They will act as landing pages for search traffic and you should be prepared to monetize off them, or at least test monetizing off them.
        C) They will complete the silo and without the unique content and having them indexed, you break the silo.

        So, figure out what you have to do to add content to your category pages. There's a variety of plugins that will get you there but some themes don't play nice with them. You just need to know from the beginning that they are needed so this is not something you can skip.

        From here you will have to actually get into the nuts and bolts of your silo's. Are these keywords the COMPLETE list? We've got to know upfront because it can radically change how you plan your site structure.

        For instance, if each individual brand has 2 dozen possible long tails then you may consider making each brand it's own category with "Cheap (brand) E-Liquid" "Buy (brand) E-Liquid" "(brand) E-Liquid Reviews" "(brand) E-Liquid Testimonials" etc being the long tails.

        IF each brand doesn't have a few dozen longtails, then it makes more sense to split them up as you have them for the most part. This is really the problem with not knowing exactly what the content strategy is for the site - I can only guess at what you really are working with in terms of keywords. So, you're going to have to figure all of this out before you make any categories, etc.

        If you do it this way, then the tagging should be uniform among all of the brand posts. In other words "Cheap (brand 1) E-Liquid" and "Cheap (brand2-xx) E-Liquid" should have the same tags as well, being Cheap E-liquid for instance. By the same token "(brand 1) E-Liquid reviews" and "(brand 2-xx) E-Liquid reviews" should all be tagged uniformly as well with something like "Reviews" or "E-liquid reviews"

        TIP: Just like you add custom content to your categories, you should also do the same with the tag pages. This is another reason that the tags between like posts should be uniform among topics - so that you can create effective tag content and create secondary silo's among all reviews for instance - if we were still going on the idea that we had 12-24 longtails per brand name.

        Separating by brand in this way also solves the problem with your "Buy" keywords... IE "Buy (brand) E-liquid" will then fall into the silo for the brand it fits with and should be tagged with "Buy E-Liquid."

        The bottom line is that you are now breaking up these random words that only vaguely have something to do with each other and giving them specific placements within your domain. Google doesn't really care which words are categories versus which words are tags other than when it comes to the navigation bar - but I solve that pretty easily by putting the tags directly into the navigation as well.

        So navigation might look like:

        Home - Information (dropdown*) - Brand 1 - Brand 2 - Brand 3 - Brand4 - etc

        The information drop down will then link to:
        Best Brands
        Brand Reviews
        Buy E-Liquids
        Cheap E-Liquids

        That way you are covering all of your silo's in the navigation which is a huge deal because of how Google interacts with/ranks/displays navigation items.

        ****This was just a real general overview and it's not complete. I have about 1/4 of the total information required to tell you how I would structure the site. I need to know all sorts of other data that just wasn't included in your post and quite frankly, if you do add it later, I won't care. You need to consider how many longtails there are, what the search volumes are, how many 'groups' you really have (fewer brands mean lay out my way, more brands mean lay out in the reverse direction using tags as categories and categories as tags.)

        Good luck

        EDIT IN: as I read the post, I know some noob is going to roll in and bash the tags. They make the difference between a single-plane silo structure and a dual-plane silo structure. If you are more comfortable jerking off Googlebot and hurting your user experience, then by all means use a traditional single-plane structure and ignore the tags... but I think you would be making a mistake. Some users want to shop by brand, others earlier in the decision process will want to browse reviews first. You're much better offer grouping these things together with the intelligent use of tagging. It also has the side effect of making a tag cloud something that can actually be usable as opposed to a disjointed mess of word soup.

        EDIT IN 2: I use tags to simplify my category construction but if you are really against tags, you can also place posts into multiple categories. In other words, instead of having "E-Liquid Reviews" as a tag as described above, you can make it a category as well. The big thing here is the unique content and on a category/tag like reviews it should be aimed to sell or declare and "Winner" to get someone further down the decision making process and onto a commission for you. No need to write a novel, write to sell (or presell). In other words, it's not the place for information - that will go into each individual post. Instead write to summarize the big points on why it is the best and obvious choice for them. 300-600 words typically sells well in my experience - this isn't a long form sales letter! Your reader will fatigue if you do too much there. Besides, you will probably capture impulse buyers here and you can't risk boring them. The buyers that need more detailed information will naturally move on to the full review articles anyways.
        thanks alot, altough i dont understand everything.

        Do you offer a payed service to help me with making structure plans and such?

        i need it to start with, for our completely new webshop (prestashop), for a wordpress e commerce webshop and for a wordpress seo purpose website.

        please let me know how i can get in contact with you , thanks
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        • Profile picture of the author yukon
          Banned
          Originally Posted by cmalox View Post

          i need it to start with, for our completely new webshop (prestashop), for a wordpress e commerce webshop and for a wordpress seo purpose website.
          Ecommerce themes are time consuming to SEO because a typical ecommerce site can list each individual product multiple ways (ex: size, color, brand, etc...) which causes duplicate internal pages.
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          • Profile picture of the author godoveryou
            Originally Posted by yukon View Post

            Ecommerce themes are time consuming to SEO because a typical ecommerce site can list each individual product multiple ways (ex: size, color, brand, etc...) which causes duplicate internal pages.
            ^^^ This.

            Canonical Tags can help, but still generally a nightmare.

            And no, I don't offer a service. On the rare occasion that I do consult I charge $200/hr which puts me out of the price range of most people anyways.

            **Also, when posts get mixed on multiple archive pages (cat/tag) as long as it's only two or three it's really not a huge deal as you are normally talking about 200 characters or of 'duplicate content.' In exchange for that minor amount of duplicate content shared on just a couple of archive pages you get a H3 tag (theme dependent) with your primary keyword (for that archive page) in it - whether in this case that is the brand name or something like 'review' or 'testimonials.'

            And since each individual archive page will have it's own totally unique content, how serious is 200 characters really? To put this in another light, 5 or 6 sections of 200 characters doesn't seem to posts that use a related post plugin that displays the post excerpt under or besides the title link, and those get spread far wider than just a few archive pages.

            I fully acknowledge that this is opinion based, but I'm of the opinion that the benefits of a dual-plane silo (where a post's excerpt may be on 2 different archive pages) far outweigh the minor drawback of 200 characters worth of duplicate text when it is among hundreds of words worth of unique text.
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            • Profile picture of the author cmalox
              200 a hour is fine for me, hope you have time soon as my company needs to replace main website asap.
              I accept to pay a few hours in advance, as I understand you don't want the risk to work and don't get payed, especially with SEO advise, which is kinda hard to chargeback / cancel

              if you don't have time, can you suggest me someone that provides a service?

              But we only want experienced people to work for us, so quality -> price

              Originally Posted by godoveryou View Post

              ^^^ This.

              Canonical Tags can help, but still generally a nightmare.

              And no, I don't offer a service. On the rare occasion that I do consult I charge $200/hr which puts me out of the price range of most people anyways.

              **Also, when posts get mixed on multiple archive pages (cat/tag) as long as it's only two or three it's really not a huge deal as you are normally talking about 200 characters or of 'duplicate content.' In exchange for that minor amount of duplicate content shared on just a couple of archive pages you get a H3 tag (theme dependent) with your primary keyword (for that archive page) in it - whether in this case that is the brand name or something like 'review' or 'testimonials.'

              And since each individual archive page will have it's own totally unique content, how serious is 200 characters really? To put this in another light, 5 or 6 sections of 200 characters doesn't seem to posts that use a related post plugin that displays the post excerpt under or besides the title link, and those get spread far wider than just a few archive pages.

              I fully acknowledge that this is opinion based, but I'm of the opinion that the benefits of a dual-plane silo (where a post's excerpt may be on 2 different archive pages) far outweigh the minor drawback of 200 characters worth of duplicate text when it is among hundreds of words worth of unique text.
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  • Profile picture of the author Dr los3
    I would go like this.

    potatoejoes.com/E-Liquids/halo-review/
    potatoejoes.com/E-Liquids/best-e-liquids-for-preggo-women/
    potatoejoes.com/E-Liquids/are-e-liquids-safe/
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  • Profile picture of the author SEO Power
    Remove the dashes from your domain name if you don't want it to look spammy.

    As for the subpages, you are overthinking your site structure. Just place them in the silos where you think they best fit. One post/page can even appear under two categories and it won't cause any issues. But before categorising your posts that way, you may want to noindex your category pages to avoid any duplicate content issues.
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    • Profile picture of the author Dr los3
      Originally Posted by SEO Power View Post

      Remove the dashes from your domain name if you don't want it to look spammy.

      As for the subpages, you are overthinking your site structure. Just place them in the silos where you think they best fit. One post/page can even appear under two categories and it won't cause any issues. But before categorising your posts that way, you may want to noindex your category pages to avoid any duplicate content issues.

      Change your name from SEO power to seo idiot.
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      • Profile picture of the author yukon
        Banned
        Originally Posted by SEO Power View Post

        Remove the dashes from your domain name if you don't want it to look spammy.

        As for the subpages, you are overthinking your site structure. Just place them in the silos where you think they best fit. One post/page can even appear under two categories and it won't cause any issues. But before categorising your posts that way, you may want to noindex your category pages to avoid any duplicate content issues.
        Originally Posted by Dr los3 View Post

        Change your name from SEO power to seo idiot.
        Harsh but he obviously doesn't have a clue what he's talking about. Noindex categories, duplicate internal pages on purpose, lmao.
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  • Profile picture of the author Hardeepssethi
    these are best long trail keywords I can suggest

    buy e-liquid online
    buy e-liquid wholesale
    buy e-liquid nicotine
    where to buy e liquid in stores
    where can i buy e liquid
    buy e liquid locally
    where to buy liquid vitamin e
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  • Profile picture of the author anynewsbd
    Better provide your site add then we can visit & if we find anything/any idea about keywords then we will inform you.
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  • Profile picture of the author ceaserbuck
    avoid using "-" in domain names it is not user rememberable and use .com domains to the most coming to keyword i think that optimizing for buy cheap E-liquid does not get you results for buy E-liquid focus on buy E-liquid as primary in title descriptiom etc and optimize using cheap in contents this would fetch you good results

    thank you
    SEO in chennai
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  • Profile picture of the author SEO-Dave
    What's with all the negativity about hyphens in domain names.

    Google doesn't penalize a domain because it has hyphens, just so happens more blackhat SEO's used hyphenated domains when SEO's figured out Google parses the keywords from an hyphenated domain, but not an unhyphenated domain. Hyphens gave a small ranking boost, so SEO's used them a LOT.

    Similar with the .info TLD, because they started so cheap blackhats tended to use them for throwaway domains, doesn't mean Google as a matter of course downgrades .info domains.

    Since Google uses 200+ ranking factors, though hyphenated domain names give a small SEO boost for the keywords in the domain, it's a tiny SEO factor barely worth worrying about. Any domain can rank for any SERP.

    Sounds like you are reading too much into silo SEO, sounds like all your content is in a relatively tight niche, using a silo structure won't add a great deal of SEO benefit unless you plan to create a large site.

    After doing your keyword research it doesn't mean you need a webpage for every single keyword phrase you found, you will find with the right content and off-site SEO (backlinks) a webpage can target multiple SERPs which makes it a heck of a lot easier to generate content for an ecommerce site.

    It's a pain trying to create webpages targeting Buy and Cheap and Best SERPs when they are about the same product/service.

    I would suggest creating content that targets a main SERP and related SERPs at first, as your site grows you'll discover which ones are easy SERPs and which ones are difficult and will need more tightly targeted content. You may find for example a page targeted at "buy e-liquid in Netherlands" will also rank for "cheap e-liquid in Netherlands" etc...

    Really depends how competitive the SERPs are (I didn't look) and how good you are at off-site SEO. More links you generate, generally more SERPs you can target on one webpage. With enough off-site work you could target most of those SERPs on half a dozen webpages.

    David
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