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[AaronJones]

Originally Posted by TimRobinson

Lol nice work on deleting the 3 posts explaining how this is an illegal pyramid scheme by members here.

Dude you're in way over your head. You can ignore members here and that's all well and good, that's not what you should be worried about. You now have 2 choices:

1. Get out of the scheme, admit you were wrong and quit while you're ahead.

2. Keep going, Wait until the FTC shuts the site down and freezes all your money, then have fun explaining how your "legitimate money making system" works to them.

It's your call, but I sure hope you don't take option 2, because they ain't as forgiving as the mods here seem to be.

If you do chose option 2 you can kiss the rest of your internet marketing career good bye, because if you get caught running a scheme like this it's going to be a pain in the ass to ever start a business or join a MLM / Network marketing program again.

I know you don't believe me Tim, but I have had nothing to do with the removal of those posts. I was away all day.

I also know you don't believe me, but I am not the owner of the program or the site.

Maybe just maybe your posts are against the rules as decided by the mods themselves, and your accusations off base.

Aaron

[dbressler]

Aaron,

I must have missed it...

1) Who won the $500?

2) What ideas did you decide to implement, if any?

3) If you implemented any of the ideas, what kinds of results are you getting to date?

Debbi

[Dan Grossman]

Perhaps if you explain the system people won't claim it's a pyramid or ponzi scheme. I just read through the website and I'm confused as well. I'm not one of the people that participated in this thread during whatever fuss occurred, I didn't see whatever posts got deleted.

Is there an actual product being sold?

It looks like $697 = $500 for your referrer, $100 for your referrer's referrer, $97 for the program owner.

A program where the investments of new members pays back the investments of the previous members is the definition of a ponzi scheme, isn't it? You don't need infinite tiers to have a pyramid -- the direct referrals are paying back the $697 investment of the original members, the referrals' referrals are paying back the 2nd level's $697 investment, the referrals' referrals' referrals are paying back the 3rd level's $697 investment, etc. Not a perfect pyramid, but the same idea.

[AaronJones]

Originally Posted by Dan Grossman

Perhaps if you explain the system people won't claim it's a pyramid or ponzi scheme. I just read through the website and I'm confused as well. I'm not one of the people that participated in this thread during whatever fuss occurred, I didn't see whatever posts got deleted.

Is there an actual product being sold?

It looks like $697 = $500 for your referrer, $100 for your referrer's referrer, $97 for the program owner.

A program where the investments of new members pays back the investments of the previous members is the definition of a ponzi scheme, isn't it? You don't need infinite tiers to have a pyramid -- the direct referrals are paying back the $697 investment of the original members, the referrals' referrals are paying back the 2nd level's $697 investment, the referrals' referrals' referrals are paying back the 3rd level's $697 investment, etc. Not a perfect pyramid, but the same idea.

I don't understand that view. It is two tier. Just like any aff program. If an ebook is sold for $97 and the author keeps only $10-$20 and pays the rest out to aff does that make it a ponzi?

P.s. There are tons of products being sold, plus travel, gas, grocery vouchers. If you paid $2 for each PLR ebook with master resale rights in there alone that is worth the cost to join. Nevermind the travel discounts, the $100 gas voucher etc and it is just launching so there is more value being added all the time. There are books on any topic you could read or resell even without recruiting. There is value depending on who is looking at it.

It's not just money exchaning hands. I thought there was good value on there so I feel once people are in they would agree, so telling fellow warriors about it wasn't such a bad idea.(Though I do not belong to any PLR membership sites so i don't know how they compare..I'll admit)

Aaron

[Dan Grossman]

Originally Posted by AaronJones

If an ebook is sold for $97 and the author keeps only $10-$20 and pays the rest out to aff does that make it a ponzi?

No, the buyer bought an ebook. They didn't make a financial investment.

Maybe it should be more clear on that website that more happens than money exchanging hands, as you said. The sales letters don't mention anything other than this investment scheme. The link at the very bottom of the page to "products" you get with the purchase looks like part of a legal footer, so I didn't click it at first time through the site.

Although it still smells like WorldProfit which was forced to relocate to Canada to avoid the legal hassles. Relocating didn't keep them off all the consumer scam websites though. Associating yourself with these kinds of products, even if they're legal, can be bad for your reputation.

[AaronJones]

Originally Posted by Dan Grossman

No, the buyer bought an ebook. They didn't make a financial investment.

Maybe it should be more clear on that website that more happens than money exchanging hands, as you said. The sales letters don't mention anything other than this investment scheme. The link at the very bottom of the page to "products" you get with the purchase looks like part of a legal footer, so I didn't click it at first time through the site.

Although it still smells like WorldProfit which was forced to relocate to Canada to avoid the legal hassles. Relocating didn't keep them off all the consumer scam websites though. Associating yourself with these kinds of products, even if they're legal, can be bad for your reputation.

I'm starting to find that out that legal or not it may not be worth the image.. You've given me something to think about for sure. Thanks for not just calling me names and attacking me to get your point across.

Aaron

[dbressler]

Aaron,

I must say that I didn't read the nasty posts that you are referring. I only saw one post (aside from the negative one on this page) that was removed.

However, it seems that you had gotten positive feedback until a post you made (which is also now removed) where you indicated that you had already made back your $500 from this post. I cannot remember it verbatim, but some people may have felt your original post was not made to elicit responses, but as a back-end mechanism to interest them in your program. No way to tell for sure, but that's the point where I saw the negative comments begin; in fact, the person mentioned that post specifically. I DO NOT think that was your intent in making the post, but it may be the way some interpreted your comments.

Other than that, I hadn't been back until I posted the comment yesterday.

Now, it is not right for anyone to question your honesty or call you a scammer. Like I said, I didn't see those posts.

It is obvious that the company sales page you are using is not causing the desired reaction among this group. The reason people are getting that impression is that the webpage the company has provided is all about the money. The products are dismissed as something to make the plan legal. There is no value given to them.

If you don't want to have a web page built that will stress the value of the product offering, you may want to stick to that subset of the network marketing crowd that doesn't care about products...just show them the money.

Marketers are careful about these types of deals. Mark Joyner promoted a networking company years and years ago that reminds me a little of this (can't remember the details at this point), and you will STILL see posts made about it all these years later. It totally blew up in his face. People are not going to take the chance of a damaged reputation for a couple thousand dollars. You are competing against all the other offers that can be promoted to subscribers that will pay just as much money but without the risk. That's your challenge in my mind.

The key is value. If the company doesn't build value, you need to do something to show it. If you do, a lot of the negative comments will go away.

------------------------------------
On the other side of the fence, I have chatted back and forth with Aaron for many years. He's a good guy. I would be shocked if his intent was to scam anyone.

He came here and asked an honest question. He is trying to incorporate IM skills in his networking business. If you want to attack the IDEA, that's your right. But to make posts attacking him as a person is not right. He came here for help and you shat on him. That's not the WF I joined.

Now, assuming the products have the value Aaron is intimating, how is it different than a $4,000 product launch that pays affiliates a 50% commission plus the chance to win Hummers, cruises, laptops, and plasma tv's? Is the product "value" $4000 or $1000?

Alex M offers "$16,949 in Free Bonus Gifts" with one of his products. Where did that figure come from? Who determined the value of those bonuses?

My point is that there are a lot of ambiguous value claims made. You wouldn't think of jumping on those people. So why feel the need to attack - rather than advise - Aaron?

Aaron, I'll say it again. Before you can approach people, there are two glaring concerns on my part:
1. Substantiate the cost by building the product value in my mind. The company web site doesn't do that.
2. Offer a guarantee. If the company doesn't provide one, do it yourself or at least tell people upfront why it can't be done and allow them to take a taste of the product.

As far as your comment, "I don't see that as a reason to not pay up, but like I said I need to see some public support made for me to continue this thread and make me feel like it is worth paying up."

If you want to ruin your credibility here, let the thread drop and don't follow through on your commitment. "Making you feel like it is worth paying up" was not part of your original request. You have gotten some good ideas. Just because you may not wish to use them, does not mean that people didn't follow through on their end.

Debbi