The No Opt In Trend?

by WendellC

Posted: 15 years ago 13 replies

JOINT VENTURES

Greeting Fellow Warriors -

I've been thinking lately...kind of dangerous given my decidedly small noggin'...

I know that one of the core strategies for making money online is to build up a mailing list.

Traditionally, we offer something of value like an ebook, PLR articles, header graphics, sample services, etc. in exchange for an email address. Hey, even I have one in my sig line.

"Sign up now and get your free eBook on how eating prunes can make you taller!"

So the normal order of exchange has been "You give me your email FIRST, then I'll give you the freebie."

The problem, though, is that sometimes these freebies are...well...kinda junky. Just something slapped together with very little attention to quality or value for the user.

And even though I'm probably using a throwaway email address I still feel sort of duped when the freebie turns out to be genuinely lame.

I think to myself: "Gee, if this freebie is any indication of their product quality, would I ever want to eventually BUY their commercial product?

*-*-*

However, I've noticed that whenever someone changes the order around to "I'll give you the freebie first, THEN if you like it you can give me your email address" I tend to be much more appreciative of the person. And if the freebie is at all decent, I feel much more at ease in giving them my email and more inclined to buy their product. Our business relationship is off to a fine start!

One very good example of this no opt in required offer I've seen here on the Warrior Forum are the posts made by Alice Seba.

Here are a couple of her posts:

http://www.warriorforum.com/warrior-...-articles.html

http://www.warriorforum.com/warrior-...bligation.html

You can get 5 free PLR articles -- very well written I might add -- totally for free. She doesn't even require your email address. Only after you've seen her work and if you want to actually buy some of her PLR products does she receive your email address.

I think that's a very smart and confident way to build up a client list!

Wendell

#opt #trend

Troy_Phillips

15 years ago

I actually have a splash page I am testing now that doesn't offer any freebie.

I simply tell them I will not insult their intelligence by offering them something else to clog the hard drive .

That all they will get for free from me is some sound im advice .

So far it is converting better than anything I have going .

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WendellC

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Troy_Phillips

Troy -

Hi.

Out of curiosity, does your splash page already offer some free IM advice before you ask people to opt in?

Or does your splash page basically say "Hey, opt in with me for some free IM advice and I won't send you junk?"

If you are doing the former, then you are in fact giving people something for free before they opt in. A kind of "test drive" to build trust -- to show that you indeed know something about IM before they give you their email address. That is like what Alice is doing by giving away 5 PLR articles before she gets your email address via an order.

If you are doing the latter -- without really giving people a chance to "sample your wares" for free first, then do you think you would get more opt ins if you indeed offered them some kind of sample IM advice first? Perhaps a short report of IM tips that they could download or view before opting in.

Something like "Download this PDF with 3 of my top super IM tips and tricks. If you like what you see, you can get 7 more just by signing up."

Now I'm not saying I know for certain that the no optin required method will work better than the "traditional" optin first method. (Although I think it would.)

What I am saying is that personally, I like it when people do say "Hey check out my xyz sample without opting in. If you like it, then buy my product or at the very least sign up for more info."

Hope that makes sense...

Wendell

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Kirahster 15 years ago

I don't offer anything on my site and I seem to get a lot of opt-ins. It is a low traffic site ~30 visitors per day, the opt-in box is on the side and I get about 3 people signing up per day.
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Don Schenk

15 years ago

It will be interesting to hear how this works.

When I looked at Alice and Mila's free 5 PLR article page and go get the articles I am immediately taken to an offer for 51 more articles for only $3, but it looks like that puts me into a $24.97/month forced continuation.

So, Alice and Mila are doing much more than just giving away a freebie. They are proactivley pulling potential buyers into their sales funnel.

Just offering something free without optin doesn't mean the person will every come back to sign up.

Wendell, are you thinking about having a link in the freebie that takes people to an optin page? How will you ever build a customer list with this.

I can see how Alice and Mila are doing that.

:-Don

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WendellC

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Don Schenk

Don -

Yes, Alice and Mila are certainly pulling people into their sales funnel. It's just that the no opt in required first is a "softer" technique that I feel could get more focused and satisfied customers in the long run.

If someone REALLY likes your free product, they hopefully will buy your commercial product and then you get their email address for future marketing anyway.

What bothers me are the people who offer junky free stuff which you don't realize until you've already given up your email address. And it's not that it's easy to unsubscribe -- it's the fact that some marketers use this technique to amass huge lists of people solely for the purpose of slamming them with daily, unrelated offers. Boo! Hiss!

Originally Posted by Don Schenk

Wendell, are you thinking about having a link in the freebie that takes people to an optin page? How will you ever build a customer list with this.

I can see how Alice and Mila are doing that.

:-Don

Don -

Good question, since I can't really ask for an email address on a site that advocates no opt ins, can I?

I originally started the site as a way for me to keep track of "cool" no opt in stuff -- both on the Warrior Forum as well as outside the forum.

I may decide to throw on the site a few affiliate links or ads down the line. At this point, I'm just giving good sites some free links and advertising.

Wendell

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Zach Booker 15 years ago

Here is what, I think you mean, as far as squeeze pages go:

http://www.masscontrolsite.com/ {gotta opt-in to get the video}

Continuity Blueprint - The 12 Minute Membership Site {Watch the video than opt-in if you like his style}

I just quickly shifted through some old e-mails to find those two links.

Both have benefits, I would think that the one with the content right away would have a lower opt-in. Personally I don't mind opting in to see a video it literally takes 2 second to unsubscribe from most lists anyway.

Zach
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Ldimilo 15 years ago

If you have a website that already demonstrates your expertise (and it isn't simply a landing page with an opt-in form), I don't see a point on giving something away for free. If you are offering something of value for the world to see and judge, simply putting an opt-in for a newsletter usually does the trick. Would I get more people to sign up if I had something for free?....maybe....would those people be worth more than if they signed up because they wanted more information...probably....

I have noticed that when you don't dangle a carrot in front of someone's face, you aren't in the "I have to deliver quality content to prove I am worth something" mode and they genuinely are more interested (at least in the beginning) in what you have to say.

So, what results is higher open rates and more responses but a smaller list. Personally, I would prefer this to a large list with industry standard open rates and less responses but I guess that is just my bruised ego talking.

I guess the best move would be to have quality content available to the world AND a kick ass free product to introduce to those who sign up.
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garyv 15 years ago

Thanks for this post - it really has my small noggin spinning now too. Imagine how many people you could hook if you just gave them a high quality product without an opt in. The one thing that stops most people is that they don't want to give out any info, not even an email address. So I wonder what would happen if you made a high quality, highly informative ebook or information package, and then strategically placed some links in your package? Build up their trust and then reel them in without ever using an opt in. Then just build your list using information from purchases. I like this line of thinking and may have to follow up on it. Thanks clickguy.
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BIG Mike

Banned 15 years ago

[DELETED]

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WendellC

15 years ago

Originally Posted by BIG Mike

I think what you have to understand is that Alice and Mila aren't giving away the articles just to demonstrate the quality of them. They're actually building a subscriber/member base of 100% known content buyers via the follow up offer.

In other words, they're filtering their list in advance by throwing the freebie seekers a bone with a low-cost offer to intentionally keep them off their list.

I hear what you're saying, but the fact is if you're a marketer, then you already know that subscribing to get a freebie is a normal, accepted part of the list building process. If the product given away does not live up to it's hype, you can easily unsubscribe and be done with it.

Big Mike -

Hi.

First of all, let me say that I have a lot of respect for you and your products -- many of which I have purchased because of their high value. So I'm already on your mailing list.

Wouldn't you say, though, that the main reason for giving people a free sample pre-optin is to more fully "filter-in" higher quality buyers rather than "filter-out" the non-buying freebie seekers?

Also, what I'm suggesting / challenging / thinking about is what you refer to as the "normal accepted part of the list building process."

I see two sides to the opt-in:

If you are a potential buyer: Wouldn't you rather see / try / sample a product before giving up your email address? Test drive the car before having the dealer run a credit check? Eat a sample at the grocery store before giving them your phone number?

If you are a list builder: Wouldn't you rather have fewer, pre-qualified buyers opt-in rather than a larger number of un-qualified buyers -- those one-time freebie seekers?

So I guess what I'm saying is that perhaps by giving out a sample pre-optin that might help to pre-qualify a potential buyer so that ultimately both parties get what they want in a shorter amount of time and with less overall unsubscribing.

Just a thought...

Wendell

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Alice Seba 15 years ago

Hey...interesting discussion. My ears were burning. Now I know why.

This has been a very effective method for us.

Part of the reason we chose the no opt-in is we have affiliates sending traffic to the offer and we wanted them to start seeing INSTANT sales. We didn't want them to have to wait through the whole opt-in, follow-up, etc. It worked like a charm.

Also, I think these promos work well because of the nature of the product. People who buy content/PLR always want more of it. So by giving them 5 free and telling them they'll get 51 more for only $5, it's a tough offer to resist.

I don't know this would be as <i>easily</i> successful for an information product (i.e. giving a free report and then immediately getting them to buy a larger product - although Jimmy D. Brown is VERY good at doing this with his free reports).

Good discussion guys.

Alice
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ShawnC 15 years ago

Hey Wendell - very interesting insights from you and some really great confersation that's happened as a result.

I've gleaned a lot to think about from this thread, thanks for starting it!
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Karen Connell

15 years ago

Originally Posted by clickguy

Greeting Fellow Warriors -

...One very good example of this no opt in required offer I've seen here on the Warrior Forum are the posts made by Alice Seba.

Here are a couple of her posts:

http://www.warriorforum.com/warrior-...-articles.html

http://www.warriorforum.com/warrior-...bligation.html

You can get 5 free PLR articles -- very well written I might add -- totally for free. She doesn't even require your email address. Only after you've seen her work and if you want to actually buy some of her PLR products does she receive your email address.

I think that's a very smart and confident way to build up a client list!

Wendell

Hi,

That's exactly what I've done.

As a relatively new writer in the IM arena (but I am a published writer in newspaper), I am using this to show my potential customers my style and quailty.

My thinking behind this is, if someone downloads my freebies and likes them, I will get their details when they order. If they don't like my style etc, then I won't need their details because the chances are they won't buy from me anyway!

Regards

Karen

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WendellC

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Dhrousha

...

My thinking behind this is, if someone downloads my freebies and likes them, I will get their details when they order. If they don't like my style etc, then I won't need their details because the chances are they won't buy from me anyway!

Regards

Karen

Yes, that was my thinking as well.

I'm not saying this is a new concept -- giving away free samples to build some trust before collecting personal info -- it's done all the time.

Those 15-day trial software products are a classic example. Try the software free for 15 days and if you like it you can buy the unlock key for full price.

It's just that I haven't seen this quite so much in the list building world, where typically we want to get the person's email address before we send the sample.

Playing my own Devil's Advocate...
-*-*-*
I guess the thinking is that there is a chance that even the freebie seekers or those sitting on the fence might be convinced to purchase the product after some direct email marketing so it's better to get their contact info first so you can start the persuasion process.

And since the cost of email is essentially nil, why not try to collect as many names as possible? The more people on the list, the more chances of making a sale. Right? Sheer numbers...
-*-*-*
Unfortunately, I have seen many -- but certainly not all -- marketers become more list-builders as opposed to customer-builders. So I often see list-builders putting out really cheesy "bait" products that lure you into giving up your email name and then giving you a junky sample. So what's the big deal? Just unsubscribe, you say?

Sadly, when list-builders do this sort of bait-and-switch it hurts everyone. It makes themselves look bad because of their low-quality sample and it makes other legitimate list-builders take a hit since the more people get burned the less likely they are going to be to sign up the next time. I'm that way now.

I remember several years ago being very willing to give up my email address for something free. I also seem to recall back then that the free products were actually quite good and useful so I was much more inclined to buy their retail product.

However, as with all things internet

the abusers set in and now I'm very cautious who I give an email -- even my throwaway emails. I'm tried of being "tricked."

So that's why I'm thinking that the no opt in required might become a more common trend in the list-building world. The one benefit is that it really puts the emphasis on the marketer to put his best foot forward with his sample.

And why not give people a real taste of your product quality, your information, your expertise? Then we'll become more customer-builders as opposed to just list-builders which I think can be more profitable in the long run.

Just my 2 cents...

Wendell

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The No Opt In Trend?

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