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#1 |
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Hair Club For Men Member
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Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Seattle, WA, USA.
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EDIT 5 Nov 2009: Bumping this thread to remind people about this... mainly because the Warrior who inspired my original thread (not naming names) is back here again looking for swaps with people...
I was reminded of this the hard way recently -- remember to be careful when setting up ad swaps or other JVs with Warriors you're not familiar with. If they're new, have very few posts, and you don't already know them, check them out pretty well or at least ask for a good reference from another Warrior. Check out their posts and see if they're actually contributing. |
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| The Following 11 Users Say Thank You to KenStrong For This Useful Post: |
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#2 |
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Returning Warrior
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Location: Mumbai
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What happened?
I am building my own list now and was planning to set up an ad swap in near future... May be if you can discuss what went wrong (without naming names) it would help a lot of people(like myself) before we learn it the hard way too! I'll be watching Rahul |
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Don't Feel Bad
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#3 |
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DayJobAnnihilation.com
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Yeah this tends to happen...I have been scammed about 3 times since I started doing swaps about 1 and a half years ago.
Twice, the 'ad swapper' even blamed me for not sending out when he was the one who didn't send out. Not surprising that when they ask me for a swap again (yep they had the nerve to do that), I don't reply to them ![]() Fabian |
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#4 |
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AuthorityBlueprintX.com
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Guess its inevitable sometimes Ken. Even with the amount of precaution taken up. A few nasty buggers will still slip through the defenses. =P
For new warriors I tend to ask them for screenshots of their list, but even that can be faked. What I do is to keep a nice excel spreadsheet of the people I've adswaped with and keep track the of optins they gave me. Have a few blacklisted there which I don't mind sharing with fellow adswapers on a private basis. Lastly, it was great doing the adswap with you Ken. Your list was really responsive. From what I saw on the clicks, my list loved your offer too. We should do another one soon. =) Alvin Huang |
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#5 |
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HyperActive Warrior
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Join Date: May 2008
Location: South Africa.
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I have been burnt once by adswap and once by paid mailing which had very poor results.
-Mark |
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#6 |
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Your SEO To Freedom
Join Date: Jan 2009
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Any deal requires due diligence!
I am a newbie myself and I realize that it ould be tricky to prove that I am bona Fide too. I believe this I my 13th post only! What to do? Just want to say that I really appreciate the overwhelming support and generosity of warriors. Wow! Thank you Jody |
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#7 |
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Proud WAHMama
Join Date: Oct 2008
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I agree to be sure to do your due diligence. Find out who they've worked with and for me, the biggest thing is to find out how reciprocal people are.
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#8 |
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Warrior Member
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Hawaii
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This is a good reminder for the newbies like me too!
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Rachael R. Gerkensmeyer
Get FRESH Web Content, Anytime Get More Website Visitors, FREE! Find Plenty of Resources Here |
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#9 |
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Active Warrior
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Good posting, it's always better to be cautious but it's also easy to be wise after the event.
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#10 |
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Active Warrior
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 36
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I do a fair bit of ad swap. I have been scammed a few
time ( I won't name that person here) the best way I do this without fail is. 1. Ask them to call you. Provide an tele number. If they call you, you know they are serious. Also I am suspious of the fact you send first and I send after. I hate this practise. So what I do instead is. 2. Ask the person to call (you know they are serious again) and both of you press the send button whilst on the phone. Voila! This work's a treat. |
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#11 |
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HyperActive Warrior
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Sarasota FL... A.K.A. Paradise
Posts: 133
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You're right Ken, sadly there are plenty of folks out there that will not pull up their end of the bargain.
To you newbies-It get worse the bigger you get! I have a nice responsive list with over 30K, I've had some great JV swaps, but now everybody and their brother wants me to send out for them, but nobody want to give back what I'm offering. Back in the "old days" it was a lot harder to fake the scale of your business and the kind of person you really are-nowadays faking seems to be the rule. Sorry to sound pessimistic, I'm usually a very optimistic happy-go-lucky guy...I guess this thread just struck a cord with me. Melford |
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http://CashMakingPowerSites.com
http://TaxLiensMadeEasy.com http://SupergreensOnline.com ...and that's just the top three!!! http://twitter.com/melfordbibens |
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#12 |
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HyperActive Warrior
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Hey Ken et All
Just a word of thanks for this thread as I am hoping to embark on my first JV and your post sure got me thinking as well as reminded me to do my due diligence so on one hand I thank you for raising this topic on the other hand I hope this will not make it more difficult for new people on the scene Cheers |
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#13 |
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Senior Warrior Member
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Hi Ken,
Your correct and sometimes its not the people who have 6 posts or something. Always do due diligence when before engaging in a Joint Venture... Take care Jeff Casmer |
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#14 |
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C.F. Jackson
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 33
Thanks: 4
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Great post!
Would it be more favorable and advantageous to do it on an affiliate level where the person who is sending can track and count? I haven't dove into it yet, but that's what I'd like to do with my latest product. And reading this post has been very thought provoking. ![]() Won't Be Denied, CF- |
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#15 |
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Active Warrior
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: , , USA.
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Yeah I think this has happened to many of us. However I have also found good worthwhile partners. I find it's good to ask the partners you have worked with about other JV partners.
I've never been out right scammed on a swap. However I did have a swap where someone claimed to have over 70k and only drove about 60 clicks and 0 sales... Plus another key is to see whether other warriors say something about their swaps on the post. Are other people having good results with a specific partner. For example I can definitely vouch for two people who posted on this thread... Melford and Fabian. |
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#16 |
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Active Warrior
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Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Salem, OR USA
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thankfully i can say that i've had a lot more successful, honest ad swaps than bad ones.
nice thing about getting a handful of successful ad swap partners is that you can keep doing swaps with them and avoid new possibly shady partners. almost all my ad swaps I do now are with people I've already done one or even two previous swaps with. --Corey |
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Have an internet marketing list? Want to build it bigger...TODAY? PM me to setup a solo ad swap or other jv/cross promo arrangement.
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#17 |
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Active Warrior
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Location: Otter River, MA
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I'm glad I came to this post. I'm in the middle of my first adswap as we speak. Things are going well but I knew they would because it's with someone I've had a working relationship with for quite some time.
After this adswap runs it's course I will be looking for more to do and it never occurred to me that I had to worry about being scammed. I guess scammers are everywhere. After reading this post I now will be as careful as I can with whom I deal with. Thanks, Jeff Sargent |
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Check out what I have to say at Internet Marketing Tidbits.
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#18 |
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HyperActive Warrior
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Sarasota FL... A.K.A. Paradise
Posts: 133
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Thanks man!
Melford |
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http://CashMakingPowerSites.com
http://TaxLiensMadeEasy.com http://SupergreensOnline.com ...and that's just the top three!!! http://twitter.com/melfordbibens |
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#19 |
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Active Warrior
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Join Date: May 2009
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Thanked 15 Times in 5 Posts
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Thanks for the advice Ken.
I have a question for anyone that can help and I'm sorry if this is the wrong place to ask. Has anyone had any experience in doing a JV with a client? Here's the scenario: The prospect does seminars, teaches lessons, has drafts of books they've written that needs to be marketed and turned into a pdf and does training for animals. They want to me to market them by increasing traffic to their website and blog to generate more leads for their services. So they basically would be open to what I suggest but they only have a budget of $60 monthly to spend and would be willing to pay me between 15-20% of the sales. The prospect has a video of a TV show they were on as a guest and great testimonials from a police chief and satisfied clients. Is this a recipe for disaster and should I run as fast I can or is this a great 1st client for me? I've been working consistently trying to get my 1st offline business but don't want to take on a client if the scenario isn't right, just because I'm frustrated. Can anyone offer any advice or suggestions? Thanks |
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#20 | |
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HyperActive Warrior
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: , , USA.
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$60/month doesn't sound like they are very successful at all with what they are doing.
I wouldn't drive any traffic to them for that. If you think their products are good, set up an affiliate page and sell it that way. Or go find people with lists to promote it to. For the amount of effort this requires, 15-20% for an info product is way too low. You can find successful affiliate products for 75% commissions. Sounds like they don't understand internet marketing, or want something for nothing, or next to nothing. Quote:
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#21 |
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Active Warrior
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 40
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Good reminder, thanks
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#22 |
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Active Warrior
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Join Date: May 2009
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Thanks Thmark,
You're right! I started thinking the same thing after they changed from the 50/50 split. It would have been nice to get my 1st client but I didn't want to be working for peanuts either. |
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#23 |
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Active Warrior
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: North West England
Posts: 55
Thanks: 2
Thanked 7 Times in 6 Posts
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Thanks for the warning, I too am looking at my first adswap and hadn't considered the possibility of being taken for a ride
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#24 |
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Warrior Member
Join Date: Aug 2009
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Great to know that. I'm just new here and I already learned some very important tips. nice work Ken.
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#25 |
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Active Warrior
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 41
Thanks: 5
Thanked 9 Times in 7 Posts
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I agree with calling the person up and talking with them. Also be aware that prior performance and high post count doesn't always mean they will be the same way in the future. I am a member at other forums and have seen people build up post account to abuse it. However it is a good indicator that the person is standup.
Hopefully I won't run into any snakes. If at all possible I say use Escrow. |
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#26 |
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Satyajeet Hattangadi
War Room Member
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Mumbai, India.
Posts: 178
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Know exactly what you mean Ken, just swapped with someone here who claimed a close to 5k list and I ended up getting just 100 clicks and only 25 optins.
Live and learn.... |
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#27 |
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Warrior Member
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Sydney, Australia.
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I'm new here so this kind of thing is good to read as it will (hopefully) help me avoid people like that.
Is there anyone who does a lot of ad swaps to look out for? (I mean, people who are reputable?) Just for future reference
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#28 |
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Just A Nice Guy :)
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I usually ask for proof of them having a list before doing business with them...
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#29 |
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Warrior Member
Join Date: Jun 2009
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I agree with you buddy! We should be careful of the dealers we don't know. Could be risky but sometimes lucky. Investigate wisely.......
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#30 |
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Warrior Member
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Can't you just make people sign a contract online?
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#32 |
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Yes, but then they could be held legally accountable, no? If people here and there hold them accountable, you would think people would be less likely to scam if they think the consequences aren't worth it. Or at least they might back out for fear, before they scam you. I don't know, I guess there must be no point if you say there is not. Thought I would throw out a suggestion.
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#33 |
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DayJobAnnihilation.com
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I'd agree with Imran, there would be no point in drawing up contracts - it would take too much time.
If you do one ad swap every few months, then sure, by all means do it. But if you want speed, then do away with them. Joint ventures are largely built on trust, sure there will be one or two people who are uncooperative and don't realize that fleecing someone once will end up as a long-term loss for them. Do repeat business with those you have worked with before, check out newcomers to the scene well and chances are, out of 100 swaps, at least 95 of them will be successful. Fabian |
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#34 |
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Warrior Member
Join Date: Jun 2009
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Thanks with this useful post.
Good for newbie like me.. -Mat Awang |
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#35 |
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Warrior Member
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Location: South Florida
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Thanks for the reminder. Most likely I am one of the newest striving IM's on the forum. I'll be taking time learning the support system within the Warrior Forum before I reach out to people.
I am very high on integrity, so anything I can learn to identify those less than integrity is helpful. Thanks. Richard |
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#36 |
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Active Warrior
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I like to research people and what they are promoting before agreeing to anything. I think that's a wise practice, regardless of finding individuals in the warrior forum. I would also hope that if that happened in the warrior forum that we would use names. That's my personal feeling.
Desiree |
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Desiree Richardson
Rich and Rich Entrepreneurs http://richandrich.ning.com/group/tviexpress http://richandrich.ning.com/group/thetrafficplan http://www.squidoo.com/lensmaster/referral/desjefkadjef |
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#37 |
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Darren "The Real Deal"
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Thanks Ken, I appriciate the heads up. I also Would like to Thank Everyone Else for their Generosity to Contribute on The Topic. I have been marketing on the Internet
now for 5 years and Have seem some pretty shady stuff myself. Although Most of My Experiences and Partnerships have been Favorable, there were those few times where I did get Scammed. I am looking forward to adding to the community. Thanks again, Have a AWESOME Day on Purpose! With Purpose! Darren Utke Aka "The Real Deal" Mentor |
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#38 |
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Just A Nice Guy :)
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You gotta be careful who you trust....
Reason I say this is simple. A well respected Warrior from here wanted to do an ADSWAP and I only got 7 opt ins from him. Oh well. Peace. |
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#39 |
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The Helping Affiliate
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I'll be getting on TeamViewer and phone with the people I do ad swaps with, for sure.
I'm planning my first one right now. |
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#40 | |
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Senior Warrior Member
War Room Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Hubbard, Ohio, USA.
Posts: 4,189
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Hi Ken,
I appreciate this post immensely, so thanks! I've been lookingfor a partner for a specific project, and decided to use another forum because they were more related to the project them this forum is. Oh I got several people who applied, and I gave the whole lot of them a trial period of 1 month. Needless to say, none of them stepped up to the plate within that trial period. All they wanted was a way to get into the backend of the site, and get free handouts for basically doing nothing. Well, they didn't get either of these things from me, and were basically turned loose after the first week. In spite of people thinking the best of, or in people, there are some that you just cannot trust, and rightly so. Mary Quote:
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#41 |
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Hair Club For Men Member
War Room Member
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Seattle, WA, USA.
Posts: 2,899
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Thanked 247 Times in 148 Posts
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I'm bumping this thread to remind people to do their due diligence... the Warrior who inspired this thread originally (by never sending out for me after I already did for him) is back looking for more swaps...
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#42 |
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Active Warrior
War Room Member
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Australia
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Thanks: 4
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
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As a newbie myself, I'd like to say that while the number of posts might be an indicator of someone's length of stay, the quality of posts should also be taken into consideration as a reflection of their willingness to make a contribution.
It's easy to post one-liners which don't really add much to a discussion. |
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#43 |
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Steve D'Agostino
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Sometimes it's hard to go by the number of posts in the forum. If you're not sure about someone, ask for references from other folks. I don't post here all the time, but I've done swaps with some great folks here that can vouch for my honesty. My list isn't big- 725, but if you want to swap with me, you can talk to me on skype, I can send you references of people on the forum with whom I've swapped, and I will be completely forthcoming with regard to list size, performance you can expect (subject to ad quality/ targeting), and I provide screenshots if requested.
If you want to avoid getting scammed, just be sure you deal with people like that. If they can show you that they are legit, then cool. If not, beware. And beware of people who publicly cause static with the people they've worked with. Even if they are in the right, do you want to work with someone who calls out people in public before trying to resolve problems in private? |
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#44 |
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JohnYeo.name
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Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Singapore
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Thanked 161 Times in 97 Posts
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Thanks Ken....we have the responsibility
to check the background of the ad swappers. It is a long term relationship afterall. John |
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#45 |
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Warrior Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 13
Thanks: 0
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Thanks for the heads up Ken.
Would you happen to have a book or leaflet giving folks like us the top 5 or the top 10 tips for safe and effective JV partnerships? If not maybe you should consider writing one seeing that it is so close to Christmas when things really get crazy. Regards, Alvern |
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#46 |
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Active Warrior
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Cancun
Posts: 39
Thanks: 4
Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts
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Anyone have any ideas on how to check someone out for credibility before doing an ad swap?
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#47 |
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Pro-Warrior in Training
War Room Member
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Location: San Diego, CA
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Thanked 87 Times in 17 Posts
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Man. I was just scammed by a person here on the Warrior Forum just yesterday. I sent to my list of 2,000 for them and they never sent at all. It's very very frustrating. The person that I swapped with a has a good reputation on here too. They have thousands of posts, been thanked several times, and even have people vouching for them on other threads about how good their swap was... Yet somehow, when I swapped with this person, I sent for them and they never sent for me and then they completely stopped returning my e-mails and skype messages.
I feel helpless. I wish I could call attention to this person in the Warrior Forum and prevent them from doing this to others but I know that is looked down upon also! So now I just have to let this person, who seems to have built up a good rep., continue to just go around and scam others... Be careful... Even the ones who look reputable may still screw you... Matt |
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#48 |
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Active Warrior
War Room Member
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Alberta, Canada
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I don't get why naming names isn't allowed?
Wouldn't it make the whole Warrior Forum that much more amazing if people couldn't get away with crap? Like basically since 'naming names' is bad, people just get to do things and it can't be talked about. So now it's the person that has been wronged gets to feel like they're stupid. Frankly - this is the biggest reason the Warrior Forum has bothered me over time - i decided to start posting finally but i keep getting really aggravated that people have problems with other people and 'can't talk about it' So WHY is this? WHAT is the reason? |
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#49 | |
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Article Marketer et al
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Jacksonville, Fla
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Quote:
Who knows what malicious person would then accuse someone who is guilty of nothing, and the mudslinging would begin! CoolAromas | |
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Warrior Member
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Fort Collins, CO
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Great post Ken..
Thats great to know and very helpful for newbies to this site and to the whole JV marketing world like myself.. Thanks! -Adam |
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