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Unread 17th October 2012, 01:16 PM   #1
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Default Rules for the JV section - Updated 12/21

Major change to this section

Okay. A few people seem determined to play games with multiple accounts and re-posting deleted threads. On top of that, the rules in this section have been systematically ignored for a long time. So, from now on, threads in the JV section will need to be approved before becoming visible to the members.

Do not PM any of the moderators or go to the help desk asking when/if a thread will be approved, or why it wasn't. The rules are simple, and posted.

Note that approving a post does not mean that the forum or any of its moderators endorses the offer. It only means that the moderator who approved it wasn't aware of any reason not to do so when it was looked at initially.

You still need to use your own good sense. It's your time and resources you're investing. Choose wisely.

Note: We will not be approving posts from people who sign up and start looking for JVs without some track record of useful participation in the forum. If you don't have at least 50 posts, I won't even read the offer.

This is a "let's work together" section. Not a "way around the paid ads" section. The general definition of JV that we're using here is this:

Any partnership where two or more people bring various resources together to complete something none of them could - or perhaps want to - do on their own. They share in the effort/investment and in the profits.

Working together with others can help you get where you want to be much more quickly. But, as with any open system like this, some folks have abused that intent. So, we have some restrictions.

Update 12/21/2012: JV Giveaway events should be kept to this thread only. Please read the first post for current rules for that thread.

Offers that do not belong in this section:

Blind ads: If you can't say more substantive than "You'll make a bunch of money. PM me for details," you don't need to post it here. Or anywhere else on this forum.

Affiliate or MLM recruiting: Those go in the Affiliate Program Database

Ads looking for investments or loans: Way too many of these have been pure scams. For further info on that issue, read this post.

Ads that offer to teach you a system, and require that you spend X amount on paid traffic. Sounds reasonable, but those have typically included some rather nasty 'gotchas.'

Ads asking others to sell your products or run your ads through their account(s). Any type of account, including, but not limited to, eBay, Craigslist, AdWords/AdSense, CPA or PPC networks, and Flippa.

Selling anything, including solo ads.

Update 10/18/2012: Ad swaps are fine. Trading actual lists, or buying and selling email lists, is forbidden here. If we catch you doing it, you will be removed.

Update 7/1/2014: This includes selling leads, whether on a per lead or commission basis. A lot of people seem to think calling a sale a joint venture is a way to get around the rules.

This is also not the place to hire commissioned salespeople.

Any post violating these rules, or that just seems hinky, will be deleted. Re-posting deleted ads will get you, at the very least, a temporary ban.


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Unread 20th October 2012, 07:30 PM   #2
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Default Re: Rules for the JV section - Updated 10/18

Miscellaneous notes:

Never pay anyone for anything in business through Paypal's Gift option. If you do, you immediately lose any and all protection you may have had through Paypal. You may also lose the tax deduction for the purchase, but you need to check with your accountant to be sure about that.

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Unread 22nd October 2012, 08:53 AM   #3
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Default Re: Rules for the JV section - Updated 10/18

Are JV Giveaways OK?

Every Week, New Leaders Discussing How They Did It!
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Unread 22nd October 2012, 12:14 PM   #4
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Default Re: Rules for the JV section - Updated 10/18

Andy,
Quote:
Are JV Giveaways OK?
Edited 12/21/2012: You can post those in this thread... "JV" Giveaway Events


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Unread 22nd October 2012, 03:08 PM   #5
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Default Re: Rules for the JV section - Updated 10/18

Hi Was not sure what I can post here.
I need to recruit some affiliates for my new product.
Can I do that here or is there somewhere else on the forum?
Thanks
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Unread 22nd October 2012, 10:27 PM   #6
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Default Re: Rules for the JV section - Updated 10/18

Guy,
Quote:
Hi Was not sure what I can post here.
I need to recruit some affiliates for my new product.
Can I do that here or is there somewhere else on the forum?
That is clearly explained in the first post in this thread.


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Unread 23rd October 2012, 06:12 AM   #7
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Default Re: Rules for the JV section - Updated 10/18

I would like to post about a survey that I am conducting for the online portal that we are about to launch (we are into SEO Resellership). The survey is basically about designs and functionalities that an internet marketer would like to have. Is that kind of post okay to be placed here?

Thanks!

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Unread 23rd October 2012, 11:42 AM   #8
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Default Re: Rules for the JV section - Updated 10/18

Quote:
Originally Posted by talentshout View Post
I would like to post about a survey that I am conducting for the online portal that we are about to launch (we are into SEO Resellership). The survey is basically about designs and functionalities that an internet marketer would like to have. Is that kind of post okay to be placed here?
Nope. I'm not really sure that would be allowed anywhere in this forum, except maybe a classified ad. And that probably wouldn't give you accurate or useful results.

The problem is, that sort of product research always comes across as pre-promotion, and turns into salesy discussions. We've had waaay too many people in the past use those as ways to sneak ads into the discussion areas, and it will start up again if we allow it.

It sucks, but it's the nature of the beast.


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Unread 23rd October 2012, 02:27 PM   #9
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Default Re: Rules for the JV section - Updated 10/18

Paul,

Thanks for the update on the JV rules.

I want to double check something on the rules.

"Cannot Sell anything" - And "Lets work together" are two phrases you used.

Clarification: I provide Custom App's, Mobile Apps, Web Development and Video production on super affordable scales.

Scenario: I post about looking for others who want to utilize what we provide as an up sell at whatever rate they want then we bill them etc.
Example: I charge $20-40 for a single Facebook app. They charge $150. I bill them. They bill customer.

Is this legitimate for JV since its "lets work together" or not due to me selling something?

I appreciate your clarification!

Nathan

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Unread 25th October 2012, 12:44 PM   #10
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Default Re: Rules for the JV section - Updated 10/18

Nathan,
Quote:
Is this legitimate for JV since its "lets work together" or not due to me selling something?
That's a pretty commonly offered scenario in this section. It's clearly not an affiliate offer, since the reseller sets the price.

(Hmmm. Reseller isn't even the right word, since it's a different product each time.)

You would be acting as a supplier, not a partner. So, I think the classifieds or "Warriors for Hire" section would be more appropriate for that one.


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Unread 25th October 2012, 01:06 PM   #11
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Default Re: Rules for the JV section - Updated 10/18

Hey Paul,

I've been a member of the forum for a very long time but I usually don't make any posts. At the time I think I have a total of 5 or 6.

I have a great idea for a product that I would like to launch here but I don't have the skills necessary to pull it off by myself.

I know I can't start a new thread with so few posts. But I was wondering if I could talk about my idea if there's a post where someone happens to be looking for ideas?

Thanks.
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Unread 25th October 2012, 01:14 PM   #12
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Default Re: Rules for the JV section - Updated 10/18

Quote:
I know I can't start a new thread with so few posts. But I was wondering if I could talk about my idea if there's a post where someone happens to be looking for ideas?
That kind of discussion probably won't happen in this section.

My advice: Participate a bit in the discussion sections. It doesn't take that much time, if you do it in a useful way. A couple of posts a day answering questions or helping out, and pretty quick, you're there.


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Unread 30th October 2012, 07:52 PM   #13
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Default Re: Rules for the JV section - Updated 10/18

Software Developer wants to give away software packages to the first 50 to respond.

In return, the developer just wants feedback.

Is that ok for this section? If not, can you suggest where to post that FREE OFFER?

Free SEO Report, good for one site, one keyphrase, one time use ... Don't pay for SEO services, get a Free SEO Report, try before you buy! After your initial free report, the cost is very reasonable. A brief proposal and recommendations will be included with your free report. IF this is against the WarriorForum TOS, I will delete it. Please, just let me know... PM me.
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Unread 30th October 2012, 09:44 PM   #14
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Default Re: Rules for the JV section - Updated 10/18

GeoFan,

That would be: If you want your product or service reviewed...


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Unread 1st November 2012, 03:25 AM   #15
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Default Re: Rules for the JV section - Updated 10/18

Hi Paul,

A few days ago, I tried to start a new thread here, title: Free eBook Advertising: Joint Venture.

The thread never appeared (apparently, it wasn't approved), and I can't figure out why. In it, I offer to place warrior's publicity in my free ebooks, and then give them their own copy to distribute to whomever they wish.

Do you know why it wasn't approved? Thank you!

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Unread 2nd November 2012, 12:19 AM   #16
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Default Re: Rules for the JV section - Updated 10/18

David,

If you want to do that in the free ebook section, you could. As long as people can get a copy without signing up for anything.

That's not the kind of JV we're looking for in this section, though. It's too much like an affiliate play.


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Unread 2nd November 2012, 12:30 AM   #17
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Default Re: Rules for the JV section - Updated 10/18

Hey Paul,

First of all i am very thankful to you for posting rules

I have a question about JV Section, can i post for JV partner Because I would need some serious partners for my products

Thanks!

Stay Happy
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Unread 2nd November 2012, 08:03 AM   #18
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Default Re: Rules for the JV section - Updated 10/18

Hello Paul, thank you very much for this rules. I would like to ask you a question: i have made a post a couple of days ago on this section and and it seems that it was not approved, because a can't find it. The post was about a new Facebook group for JVs. In my understanding my post didn't violate any of these rules. Could you please help me with this?

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Unread 2nd November 2012, 09:15 AM   #19
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Default Re: Rules for the JV section - Updated 10/18

Ali,

That sounds like it belongs in the affiliate database.

Alejandro,

That wasn't approved because it's not a JV. It's a Facebook group to talk about JVs. Or, based on the impression I got, affiliate deals.


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Unread 2nd November 2012, 11:51 PM   #20
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Default Re: Rules for the JV section - Updated 10/18

I'm wanting to make a post offering my programming skills in return for working with a proven 'marketer' to learn more about it. Since I'm wanting to create a business with someone in return for utilizing my skill-set to make a product they have in mind, is that appropriate to post here?
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Unread 3rd November 2012, 08:24 AM   #21
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Default Re: Rules for the JV section - Updated 10/18

Quote:
Originally Posted by x11joex11 View Post
I'm wanting to make a post offering my programming skills in return for working with a proven 'marketer' to learn more about it. Since I'm wanting to create a business with someone in return for utilizing my skill-set to make a product they have in mind, is that appropriate to post here?
As a general statement, yes. That might change depending on the posted details, but I'd say most of the time that would be within the rules here. You're going to have to participate in the forum a bit more first, though. I wouldn't approve a JV offer from someone with 4 posts.

That's not a reflection on you or your skills. We don't know anything about either. Just a requirement to prevent or minimize certain problems that have cropped up here in the past, and to give people a better idea of who they might be dealing with.

A deal like you're talking about can turn into a great thing for everyone involved, or it can turn into a nightmare. You and the marketer who might work with you need to be very clear on what each is to bring to the table, who's responsible for what, and where the lines are drawn.

For example, if you're creating products, do you give up the copyright? If the partnership/mentorship ends, are you agreeing to not create similar products? How broad is the prohibition, if so? Will you provide ongoing support? Will you provide them with clearly commented source code, so they can take the work to someone else if you should be unable/unwilling to continue development?

How many hours will the trainer spend teaching you, and in what areas? What kind of access do you have to them and any relevant data?

You want to be sure you're approaching it with reasonable expectations, and that the person you propose to deal with is equally reasonable. If you can make it all work, it can be very profitable for both of you. If not, you can waste a lot of time and energy, and end up with big headaches.


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Unread 3rd November 2012, 09:41 AM   #22
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Default Re: Rules for the JV section - Updated 10/18

Hi Paul

I'm about to start offering some seo/website related services and need to find some JV's for a start, and plan on releasing a WSO or make a post in the services section in the longer run.

Now the question is.
Can I post it here. Keeping in mind that I am looking for people who can send some leads and receive some affiliate revenue or ask for a direct payment for mailing to their lists etc, and a few other things. Basically, it's not about affiliate only and offers benefit for both partners and no one will have to invest anything.

So is that a kind of thing that gets accepted here?

Also, I am relatively new to the forum as a member but have been a passive reader for a long time. Do I have to contribute more to the forum before posting here? Specially when the Jv I'm to post about is based on pure honest/quality services and there is something for both parties involved and no one has to invest anything upfront?

Thanks
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Unread 3rd November 2012, 03:23 PM   #23
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Default Re: Rules for the JV section - Updated 10/18

Thanks for responding!

I'm not sure if I can ask this but, how many posts do I have to reach (with valid content that is useful) before my post be considered in your opinion? I was hoping since I paid for membership that it would show some commitment on my part. I'm ready to do what is needed to move forward.

Thanks Paul.
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Unread 5th November 2012, 05:45 PM   #24
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Default Re: Rules for the JV section - Updated 10/18

Phantom,

That's an affiliate deal. Those go in the affiliate database.

As far as participation levels, I haven't formed any hard and fast post requirements for this section yet, but they'll definitely be a lot higher than 9.

Stating absolute numbers would create a whole other issue. Not a huge one, but one that would keep popping up. If I said, just for example, that you needed 50 posts to play in this particular sandbox, what would happen?

Some people would go about things as normal and come back when they'd reached that limit, if they still wanted to make the offer. Some would go on a posting spree, adding a lot of comments quickly, just to get to the "magic number."

That defeats the spirit of the rule, and also carries some "technical" challenges. What if the offer is approved and then someone notices that most of those were one-liners and deletes them? That's happened quite often in the past with other areas with specific post requirements, so it's not just a "what if." It's a "when it happens" sort of thing.

The paid ad sections have much more clear-cut rules. They're also usually more limited in the amount of risk and resources than many JVs involve.


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Unread 6th November 2012, 07:06 PM   #25
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Default Re: Rules for the JV section - Updated 10/18

Alrighty. I think you could measure it perhaps by the amount of likes and legitimate posts by the users. I've been helping in the website review section of this website to give real quality reviews to users websites to build a reputation a bit. Do you have any suggestions?
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Unread 7th November 2012, 03:30 PM   #26
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Default Re: Rules for the JV section - Updated 10/18

Joe,
Quote:
Alrighty. I think you could measure it perhaps by the amount of likes and legitimate posts by the users. I've been helping in the website review section of this website to give real quality reviews to users websites to build a reputation a bit. Do you have any suggestions?
Not anything more than be helpful (including asking useful questions), and don't worry about the numbers.

Post your offer again after you've been here a bit longer and if it's approved, you're there.


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Unread 13th November 2012, 11:22 AM   #27
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Default Re: Rules for the JV section - Updated 10/18

Hey Paul,

I'm new to this forum and attempting a first post on this board regarding an adswap/JV... I'm new here so am not sure how long moderation takes for a post.

Just wondered how long it generally takes?

Kind Regards and all the best,

Dan
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Unread 13th November 2012, 08:59 PM   #28
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Default Re: Rules for the JV section - Updated 10/18

Dan,
Quote:
I'm new to this forum and attempting a first post on this board regarding an adswap/JV... I'm new here so am not sure how long moderation takes for a post.
As mentioned earlier in the thread, you won't get a post approved in this section without some track record of meaningful participation in the discussion sections.

This is no reflection on new members. Just a way to cut down on some of the problem children who played distinctly not nice games in this part of the forum in the past. It also helps the people considering your offer to get at least some idea of who they'd be dealing with.


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Unread 15th November 2012, 02:02 AM   #29
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Default Re: Rules for the JV section - Updated 10/18

Hi Paul,
Invitation to Private Mastermind Group okay?

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Unread 17th November 2012, 11:04 AM   #30
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Default Re: Rules for the JV section - Updated 10/18

Quote:
Originally Posted by towhidzaman View Post
Invitation to Private Mastermind Group okay?
Not in this section. That's not a joint venture.


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Unread 18th November 2012, 08:32 PM   #31
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Default Re: Rules for the JV section - Updated 10/18

I did a jv from here and gave the guy money via paypal - $300.

He said he'd train me, give me a website, marketing guide.

He send me a little pdf about how to promote a website viz reddit. The guide didn't work, he still had the website in his own name and appealed it via paypal saying I didn't get what I paid for, he refused to give me a refund and paypal closed the dispute and I lost my money.

Not impressed!
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Unread 19th November 2012, 05:07 AM   #32
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Default Re: Rules for the JV section - Updated 10/18

Dr Boom,

Your post illustrates a couple of things to watch out for.

JVs are not training programs. That's the first one. If an offer is that far off topic for the section in which it's posted, you want to be careful. It could just be that the person is inexperienced. It could also be that they don't want to pay the forum for advertising, in order to reduce our ability to recognize them when they get banned and create new accounts.

Another is when someone wants you to put effort into a domain that's supposed to be yours, but is not registered in your name. That's not as clear an indicator of problems as someone wanting to cycle traffic through sites with your AdSense or CPA accounts and split the "profits," but it's a thing to be careful of.


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Unread 19th November 2012, 09:19 AM   #33
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Default Re: Rules for the JV section - Updated 10/18

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post
Dr Boom,

Your post illustrates a couple of things to watch out for.

JVs are not training programs. That's the first one. If an offer is that far off topic for the section in which it's posted, you want to be careful. It could just be that the person is inexperienced. It could also be that they don't want to pay the forum for advertising, in order to reduce our ability to recognize them when they get banned and create new accounts.

Another is when someone wants you to put effort into a domain that's supposed to be yours, but is not registered in your name. That's not as clear an indicator of problems as someone wanting to cycle traffic through sites with your AdSense or CPA accounts and split the "profits," but it's a thing to be careful of.


Paul

I am more disappointed with paypal.

The guy obvious was a fraud. However I raised the dispute with paypal within the time frame. I have evidence of correspondence from the guy and what I received. Yet they simply closed the dispute, I thought I would be protected with paypal.
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Unread 19th November 2012, 01:46 PM   #34
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Default Re: Rules for the JV section - Updated 10/18

Dr Boom,

The only way to deal with non-delivery of digital products if you use Paypal is to pay with a credit card. If the seller doesn't deliver, you can do a chargeback that way. That should always be a last resort, but it's at least some protection.

Paypal doesn't often side with the buyer in cases involving digital products. There's very little way to prove things either way in those cases, so their policy is that buyer protection doesn't apply.

A lot of people complain about that, but it's right there in the user agreement. If there was some way to be more sure of what happened, I'd wager they'd use it.


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Unread 22nd November 2012, 09:10 AM   #35
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Default Re: Rules for the JV section - Updated 10/18

Hi Paul,

Can I post a JV Facebook Group here?

Thank you,

Barak

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Unread 23rd November 2012, 01:51 AM   #36
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Default Re: Rules for the JV section - Updated 10/18

Barak,
Quote:
Can I post a JV Facebook Group here?
Not in this section. That's not a joint venture.


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Unread 23rd November 2012, 04:40 AM   #37
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Default Re: Rules for the JV section - Updated 10/18

Hi Paul,

I see two other similar groups posted here.

Why can't I post a similar group?

This is a joint venture. The purpose of the group is to help Warriors help each other to develop and promote WSOs. It's goal is to help them achieve something that they could not have done on their own and to use the power of the group to do this.

If this isn't the right place where is and why would the other groups be allowed but not mine?

Thank you,

Barak

Quote:
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Barak,Not in this section. That's not a joint venture.


Paul


Last edited on 23rd November 2012 at 04:51 AM. Reason: added information
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Unread 24th November 2012, 04:21 AM   #38
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Default Re: Rules for the JV section - Updated 10/18

Barak,
Quote:
I see two other similar groups posted here.
I haven't gone through the 10,000+ threads that were posted before the rules change and deleted the ones that no longer fit. I don't really see the benefit to anyone in spending the time on that. If you see one that was approved after 10/18, let me know. It will be removed.
Quote:
This is a joint venture.
Not by the definition we're using in this section of the forum.

A lot of people consider affiliate deals to be joint ventures, and those are not within the guidelines for this section either.


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Unread 24th November 2012, 05:39 PM   #39
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Default Re: Rules for the JV section - Updated 10/18

I was wondering, would this be the appropriate section if I'm looking for someone to become a sponsor of a giveaway? If not can you please tell me which section to post such a request in? I can't finance the giveaway myself, but any sponsors would be getting traffic to their own url and exposure in return, so I wasn't sure if that was considered a joint venture or not.

Thanks.

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Unread 25th November 2012, 01:41 AM   #40
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Default Re: Rules for the JV section - Updated 10/18

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post
Barak,Not in this section. That's not a joint venture.


Paul
Hi Paul,

Where is the appropriate place on the forum to mention the Facebook group?

Thank you,

Barak

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Unread 25th November 2012, 06:52 PM   #41
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Default Re: Rules for the JV section - Updated 10/18

JA,

You're asking for investors. That's not going to fly in this section.

If I were you, I'd start networking. The investment pitch has been so badly abused here that it's unlikely an ad for it will be approved any time soon from anyone with less than years of membership and hundreds to thousands of posts.

Not your fault, to be sure. But if we start making exceptions, especially for someone with only 8 posts and 2 months as a member, we might as well just dump the rule. And that would be a Very Bad Idea...

Barak,
Quote:
Where is the appropriate place on the forum to mention the Facebook group?
A paid ad, or your signature and some intelligent networking. That's about it.

It just doesn't fit anywhere else, and there have been too many of those popping up lately. Folks were using them as a way to get around the "free list building" rules.


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Unread 26th November 2012, 01:45 AM   #42
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Default Re: Rules for the JV section - Updated 10/18

Hi Paul,

A classified ad?

Thank you,

Barak

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Unread 26th November 2012, 05:32 AM   #43
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Default Re: Rules for the JV section - Updated 10/18

Barak,
Quote:
A classified ad?
You could test it. I'm not sure it would do you much good, but it might surprise us both.

The best way I know of to start a solid FB group is to invite some people you know are going to be a good fit and encourage them to invite others with similar traits.

For things like this, nothing beats networking.


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Unread 26th November 2012, 01:09 PM   #44
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Default Re: Rules for the JV section - Updated 10/18

Hi Paul,

Okay. Thank you for the suggestions. I downloaded your mindmap, by the way. Thank you. I found sections of the forum I didn't know existed.

Thanks,

Barak

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post
Barak,You could test it. I'm not sure it would do you much good, but it might surprise us both.

The best way I know of to start a solid FB group is to invite some people you know are going to be a good fit and encourage them to invite others with similar traits.

For things like this, nothing beats networking.


Paul

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Unread 26th November 2012, 10:09 PM   #45
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Default Re: Rules for the JV section - Updated 10/18

Paul,

Am I allow to start a thread to buy solo ads here?

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Unread 27th November 2012, 08:30 AM   #46
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Default Re: Rules for the JV section - Updated 10/18

William,
Quote:
Am I allow to start a thread to buy solo ads here?
Not in this section, no. That's not a joint venture.

Ad swaps aren't either, really, but they were the main use of this section for so long that we're leaving them as the "sort of" exception.


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Unread 27th November 2012, 12:19 PM   #47
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Default Re: Rules for the JV section - Updated 10/18

Paul,

I wanted to post this ad for a JV, but thought of getting your input even before posting. Please let me know if this is acceptable for this section of the forum.


[ad copy deleted]

Highest Paying Affiliate Programs: Tired of low payouts? Want to join Top $ affiliate Program? Here are some Top Payout Affiliate programs we offer.
Credit Repair Affiliate Program
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Debt Settlement Affiliate Program
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Unread 27th November 2012, 12:46 PM   #48
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Default Re: Rules for the JV section - Updated 10/18

End2End,

Nope. That's really just an ad for the affiliate program in your signature. The affiliate database is the place for that one.


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Unread 29th November 2012, 10:31 PM   #49
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Default Re: Rules for the JV section - Updated 10/18

Hi Paul I want to know if its right to put on the JV sub Forum. Something like get $600 for giving me 60 clients to my WSO, price will be to the one who gets more sales only applicable if earns me at least 66 sales < is it in the proper section? IF NO where can I add this?

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Unread 29th November 2012, 11:01 PM   #50
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Default Re: Rules for the JV section - Updated 10/18

Zoritey,

That's an affiliate offer. The affiliate database is one good place. You would probably do better, at least with WSOs, to network with other WSO sellers and in some of the off-forum JV/WSO groups. Send a PM to E. Brian Rose (from JV Zoo) for an invite to his Facebook group. That could be a good start.


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