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You know what I really hate...

by bigalan6622
12 replies
  • WEB DESIGN
    • |
"Well I'd like to see it all designed and on the page as it would appear before I agree..."

This is what a web design client says to me. She wants the page designed AND coded before she agrees to pay for it. Oh yeah? Well what if you decide you don't want to pay for it? Are you going to pay me for my time that I put into it anyway?

This is one of the most frustrating things when dealing with web design clients.

Any similar experiences? How can I help people understand that things don't work this way.
#clients #hate #web design
  • Profile picture of the author mystline
    Simple. Don't work for them.

    My method is to charge 50% upfront, and 50% on completion, but then again I do not design webpages, I mostly only develop and do small jobs.

    A good method is to use milestone payments, e.g. 20% up front, 20% once the client is happy with mock ups, 20% upon finished design and then the remaining 40% on launch. How this method works is up to you really but the advantage is that its *flexible*. If your client hasn't paid the previous milestone you simply do not continue work until they have.

    In a case that you need to show a client a mock up to land a job I would reccomend just sending over a watermarked image that clearly has your or your company name on it.

    Hopefully these tips help you out a bit
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  • Profile picture of the author promo_guy
    I think mystline offers great advice here. I STILL don't charge upfront and I don't know why I don't, I think it's stupid of me! lol

    Anyway, if your client wants all the work done upfront then I'd simply tell them that's now how you work (nor how 99.9% of designers work) and either collect 50% down or walk away. Plenty more clients out there for you
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  • Profile picture of the author bigalan6622
    The problem here is that we are already in the middle of the project and she did pay half up front. And I've completed at least half of the project BUT she is one of those clients that is very indecisive about what she wants and keeps changing her mind. Now she wants to add more pages to the original design proposal and does not know if she wants it or not...
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    • Profile picture of the author Steve Wells
      Originally Posted by bigalan6622 View Post

      The problem here is that we are already in the middle of the project and she did pay half up front. And I've completed at least half of the project BUT she is one of those clients that is very indecisive about what she wants and keeps changing her mind. Now she wants to add more pages to the original design proposal and does not know if she wants it or not...
      I would be as courteous as possible, customer service is priority number 1 always, BUT I would make sure that she understands that you will be adding additional charges for extra work. And if she does not want to pay for additional work I would make sure she understood that you cannot go forward with her project until a mutual agreement is made about add-ons.

      If its something that is simple to do, meaning maybe an hours worth of time, its could be best to just do it to please her. If you do go overboard and please her, she could refer you to many other clients. You just never know the future and who they know.

      Some of the biggest projects and clients can come from refferals, so I would do my best to make sure not to make an enemy. Be honest, courteous, straight forward, not defensive, and do your best to communicate as effective as possible.

      One of the biggest reasons for arguments and problems between people is mis-communications or mis-understandings.
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      • Profile picture of the author bigalan6622
        Originally Posted by EWGQDD View Post

        I would be as couteous as possible, customer service is priority number 1 always, BUT I would make sure that she understands that you will be adding additional charges for extra work. And if she does not want to pay for additional work I would make sure she understood that you cannot go forward with her project until a mutual agreement is made about add-ons.

        If its something that is simple to do, meaning maybe an hours worth of time, its could be best to just do it to please her. If you do go overboard and please her, she could refer you to many other clients. You just never know the future and who they know.

        Some of the biggest projects and clients can come from refferals, so I would do my best to make sure not to make an enemy. Be honest, courteous, straight forward, not defensive, and do your best to communicate as effective as possible.

        One of the biggest reasons for aruguments and problems between people is mis-communications or mis-understandings.

        Yes I definitely see what you're saying here. I guess I'm just getting a little frustrated with her because she has drawn this project out much longer than she should have and changed her mind on just the initial design about 5 times.

        But I definitely see what you're saying about what she could bring me in the future. She seems like she may have some connections with deep pockets so I thank you for reminding me of that. Even if her job is completely frustrating and long and drawn out, she could refer the best client I've ever had.
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        • Profile picture of the author SteveJohnson
          Originally Posted by bigalan6622 View Post

          Yes I definitely see what you're saying here. I guess I'm just getting a little frustrated with her because she has drawn this project out much longer than she should have and changed her mind on just the initial design about 5 times.

          But I definitely see what you're saying about what she could bring me in the future. She seems like she may have some connections with deep pockets so I thank you for reminding me of that. Even if her job is completely frustrating and long and drawn out, she could refer the best client I've ever had.
          Or not.

          Don't ever base your decisions about what might come in the future. Beyond that, what might she tell her contacts? "Hire this guy - I changed my mind 32 times and he didn't charge me extra!"

          Your first mistake was in not including a revision count in your contract. You do have a contract, don't you?

          You include milestones in your contract if it's a long project, and you never make final payment contingent on 'client approval'. Never. That's just an open door to not getting paid.

          If you've done your contract correctly, the project moves along in stages and you're paid for every stage. If you've done your due diligence, you know what your client needs/wants and you tailor your work to that end. But above all, you force the client to make a decision before you move on, and it's made perfectly clear that any changes beyond those allowed for in the contract will cost extra.

          When you do this the right way, it's a win-win for both you and your client, which is what you want. When your client wins, the recommend you to other people and your client base grows.

          ###

          Say you took your car to a shop for new brakes. They ask if you want the lifetime-guaranteed brake pads, or the two-year. You tell them you want the two-year ones. They install them.

          Then you decide you want the lifetime-guaranteed pads instead.

          Do you think they'd swap them out for free?
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          • Profile picture of the author Eddieheli
            Originally Posted by SteveJohnson View Post

            Or not.

            Say you took your car to a shop for new brakes. They ask if you want the lifetime-guaranteed brake pads, or the two-year. You tell them you want the two-year ones. They install them.

            Then you decide you want the lifetime-guaranteed pads instead.

            Do you think they'd swap them out for free?
            Excellent analogy Steve, for some reason people don't see software development/website design as a real business like a car repair shop.

            I had a client once tell me that my £4000 Kitchen Design Software should only cost £1.50 as that is what a floppy disc cost. (giving my age away here).

            The other thing I learnt when I had a printing business, is that with creative work, don't give the client lots of choices, because they will never decide. Just give them the one which you think most matches the design brief, and a not so well matching one, so the choice is easy for them to make.
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  • Profile picture of the author chapdaddy
    Originally Posted by bigalan6622 View Post

    Any similar experiences? How can I help people understand that things don't work this way.
    You have to inform/train your customers... they have no idea what goes into building custom websites. You might also consider raising your prices... every time I do, I get a much better clientele.
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    • Profile picture of the author IndigoJack
      Originally Posted by chapdaddy View Post

      You have to inform/train your customers... they have no idea what goes into building custom websites. You might also consider raising your prices... every time I do, I get a much better clientele.
      Yes, exactly. Clients don't know the amount of work hours that may have gone into producing that design element that they have just dismissed, despite asking for it.

      Communication is key.

      If the client asks for a custom drawn elephant that is holding its trunk out, holding a flag, while doing the splits - that's what they get. If the client rejects the result of that specific request they still have to pay for it because the work has still been done. So you need money up front to cover your time.

      You can't work for nothing.
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    • Profile picture of the author bigalan6622
      Originally Posted by chapdaddy View Post

      You have to inform/train your customers... they have no idea what goes into building custom websites. You might also consider raising your prices... every time I do, I get a much better clientele.

      This is very true. Often times people just say oh can you just make this real quick so I can see how it looks or something like that and it's like no... that costs time and money and if you want it done you're going to have to pay for it... REGARDLESS of how you think it looks. It's hard to get people to understand the complexity of things they ask for sometimes.
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  • Profile picture of the author infoman66
    Contract, it was the right thing ...
    Price list, think that it can to help ...
    But you must be very precise in terms of services you offer and prices of the services ...
    Then put everything on paper - contract...
    When similar problems befall me, I always ask the client whether he hired me as a web designer or yourself ..
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  • Profile picture of the author Cre8ive
    Originally Posted by bigalan6622 View Post

    "Well I'd like to see it all designed and on the page as it would appear before I agree..."

    This is what a web design client says to me. She wants the page designed AND coded before she agrees to pay for it. Oh yeah? Well what if you decide you don't want to pay for it? Are you going to pay me for my time that I put into it anyway?

    This is one of the most frustrating things when dealing with web design clients.

    Any similar experiences? How can I help people understand that things don't work this way.
    You are not alone in that experience. It happens a lot.

    One of the best ways to counteract on this situation is sending the client a project workflow, possibly with milestone payments, and/or a precise contract.

    I usually send my clients my workflow, and get them to agree on it. That way I also show them how much work is actually involved in the process, so they dont think its a "just" job.

    0. Sparring on info, quality, texts, functionality, purpose, targetgroup
    1. Research
    2. Image search
    3. Website layout proposal. (1,st rev.)
    4. Acknowledgement of layout (or production of 2.nd rev based on feedback)
    5. Design of agreed layout. (1.st rev)
    6. Acknowledgement of design (or production of 2.nd rev based on feedback)
    7. Acknowledgement of finished design
    8. Commensing coding.
    9. Testrun on own servers or client server for client to test functionality and usability.
    10 Acknowledgement of coding job and the finished website
    11. Possible Implementation on client servers.
    12. Acknowledgement that the job is finalized to satisfaction.


    This is just one my own project flows.. Got a lot of different for each possible situation.

    But by presenting this to the clients, they know exactly how much is involved and when agreed to this by either contract or just from an email, you can always go back and say.. "we agreed on this process" - Having a contract though will always give you the legal foothold.
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