How much do you charge per simple design? (offline world)

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13 years ago

Originally Posted by misc92

Hey there guys, here is the situation. Almost no local business here has a website and almost no business owner/manager in my city actually knows the cost of designing/developing a website. - Most think it costs thousands...

Im a student and recently the idea of designing websites for local business came to my mind. So i talked to friends whose parents own businesses. I proposed the idea of designing websites for them, all agreed.

However i have no idea of how much i should charge for simple wordpress designs consisting of 5-10 pages. The sites just display pictures, location, experience, their contact information, etc.

How much would you charge??

So you're going to 'design' a website for them, eh? You're going to give them a 'simple wordpress design' and a 5-10 page website. And those types of sites do exactly what for the business that's paying you? You probably shouldn't charge them more than $50 or so.

Originally Posted by iAmNameLess

Well, I wouldn't use wordpress because it isn't very professional. However, it doesn't mean YOU can't. A lot of people would only charge 50-$100 for wordpress sites.

I would suggest learning a few things on what you can do DIFFERENT to make it stand out and NOT look like every other wordpress site on the net.

You would probably do very good charging about $300-500 a site at first. Once you build up a few clients, increase your price a little bit. $400-600 would be fine.

WordPress not 'professional'?

ROFLMAO! And a 'lot of people would only charge 50-$100'?!?!?!?!?!! Please! You're killing me! LOL

I will admit, though - if you're a rank amateur then you shouldn't charge very much for a site, because it'll more than likely have to be redone in the near future, and if you don't know what you're doing in the first place your clients will definitely be getting their money's worth.

$400-$600?? wow.

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Evan-M

13 years ago

Originally Posted by iAmNameLess

Well, I wouldn't use wordpress because it isn't very professional. However, it doesn't mean YOU can't. A lot of people would only charge 50-$100 for wordpress sites.

I would suggest learning a few things on what you can do DIFFERENT to make it stand out and NOT look like every other wordpress site on the net.

You would probably do very good charging about $300-500 a site at first. Once you build up a few clients, increase your price a little bit. $400-600 would be fine.

WordPress can do anything any other cms can do. Ive worked on thousands of sites on all different platforms. And never worked on any that couldn't be accomplished in WordPress professionally.

don't get me wrong, some things just shouldn't be done in WordPress, like eCommerce, but to say WordPress is unprofessional, and it would look like every other WordPress site, is a bit fare fetched.

WordPress is an extreamly powerful CMS that can look and feel however you want. Don't confuse lazy people downloading bad templates in WordPress and calling their site done , with what WordPress can do.

I have WordPress sites running for people, that unless you seen the files you would have no idea its WordPress, it the front or back-end,

anyone with a few spare days that understands code, can write a cms , but it would take years to write a system that does what WordPress is capable of, and with all the community support that it has.

I agree 110% that people take it for granted, install it, grab a free template, then sell them "new sites" to clients. Which as far as Im concerned is flat out stealing. But thats not the CMS causing the problem, its the same problem that we have with most other things in the world. Greed.

To answer the original posters question.

It really depends on your skill set. If your one of the people that fall into the group of grabbing a free template, installing it, adding some pages , then passing it off to the client. Please open a lemonade stand and leave these businesses alone. They work hard for there money, and the last thing they need is another expense that is going to do nothing for their bottom line.

But if you know how to code a custom template that suits the needs of your clients, will optimize WordPress to run properly, create the content for them, and hand over a professionally done turn key solution, you would be in the range of $500 to $1500 ( depending on it there is any custom plugin code involved etc.

And if your going to also take the time to SEO the site, and provide results in the search engines, that actually convert, you can charge more.

It all comes down to if what you are doing is making them more than they are spending.

If they spend $1500 on a site, then say $250 a month residual on seo, and make 1 $50 sale in 6 months. Not only are you going to lose a client, your more than likely going to make an enemy.

just a heads up, if you know you cannot help them make money online, pass on the client, it will look bad for you when you fail. you can't go back and say, oh its the products then...if thats the case why did you sell them a website if you knew it wouldn't sell

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misc92

13 years ago

Thanks for the reply guys. Im planning on creating custom wordpress designs for my customers and adding value to their businesses.

One client Ill be targeting is an offline marketing firm, they have a phased out clustered flash design, a marketing firm definetely needs a good looking, functional site to appeal to new customers.

Let me show how the site of a local business usually looks, brings you back to the 90s

. While the following example is not from my city it is pretty much how every site here looks: GSBurgers com

On the SEO suggestion, I have been thiking of a single 4 level pyramid of my own websites to rank local business in every niche, so I can control their placement. Since there is no competition on local SEO Ill have to develope an amazing sales pitch to make profit out of it lol.

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JimmyD

13 years ago

I often use the Thesis framework and the designs do not look like WP.
I think you need to gauge the expectations of the customers and come in cheaper and deliver more than they are expecting. That way they are happy and you can build a business relationship with them.
Charge too little and they will think that what they are getting is not of any great value.

Think about what your expectations would be if offered a website design and build: $50 or $950 what would you be expecting? If you can deliver the $950 version then everyone is happy.

cheers
JD

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13 years ago

Originally Posted by SteveJohnson

WordPress not 'professional'?

ROFLMAO! And a 'lot of people would only charge 50-$100'?!?!?!?!?!! Please! You're killing me! LOL

I will admit, though - if you're a rank amateur then you shouldn't charge very much for a site, because it'll more than likely have to be redone in the near future, and if you don't know what you're doing in the first place your clients will definitely be getting their money's worth.

$400-$600?? wow.

Steve, a LOT of people DO charge only 50-100, look around on the forum. The going rate for wordpress sites is very low. Wordpress, is NOT professional, maybe a professional blog, obviously you don't spend much time with web design. Wow what with the 400-600? Most basic sites will fit in that range, with me at least.

Originally Posted by Evan-M

WordPress can do anything any other cms can do. Ive worked on thousands of sites on all different platforms. And never worked on any that couldn't be accomplished in WordPress professionally.

don't get me wrong, some things just shouldn't be done in WordPress, like eCommerce, but to say WordPress is unprofessional, and it would look like every other WordPress site, is a bit fare fetched.

WordPress is an extreamly powerful CMS that can look and feel however you want. Don't confuse lazy people downloading bad templates in WordPress and calling their site done , with what WordPress can do.

I have WordPress sites running for people, that unless you seen the files you would have no idea its WordPress, it the front or back-end,

anyone with a few spare days that understands code, can write a cms , but it would take years to write a system that does what WordPress is capable of, and with all the community support that it has.

How can you honestly say that? How can you tell me that wordpress can accomplish what joomla can? How can it accomplish what Drupal can? What about magento or prestashop? That is just ridiculous and you know it.

I challenge anyone on this site, we'll create sites, you create on a wordpress format, and I'll create using Joomla, drupal, or magento depending on the site, and we'll see what looks better, is more functional and what the client chooses. If you win, I give you money from the client. Fair enough? LOL.

You can't have a social network with wordpress, you can with joomla, and drupal. You can't have a robust dynamic website with wordpress like you can with drupal. You can't have a massive ecommerce website with wordpress, you can with magento.

So here is the deal, people can argue with me all they want but when it comes down to it, you're still wrong. Wordpress, is simple, it is easy, and unfortunately the majority of people building websites don't know anything other than wordpress. For any SEASONED web developer, they know that wordpress is the bottom of the chain, it serves its original purpose and that is about it. They are making improvements but have a long way to catch up. Seriously, contact the top web development firms in the country, ask if they use wordpress, FOR ANYTHING. LOL.

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13 years ago

Originally Posted by iAmNameLess

Steve, a LOT of people DO charge only 50-100, look around on the forum. The going rate for wordpress sites is very low. Wordpress, is NOT professional, maybe a professional blog, obviously you don't spend much time with web design. Wow what with the 400-600? Most basic sites will fit in that range, with me at least.

So here is the deal, people can argue with me all they want but when it comes down to it, you're still wrong. Wordpress, is simple, it is easy, and unfortunately the majority of people building websites don't know anything other than wordpress. For any SEASONED web developer, they know that wordpress is the bottom of the chain, it serves its original purpose and that is about it. They are making improvements but have a long way to catch up. Seriously, contact the top web development firms in the country, ask if they use wordpress, FOR ANYTHING. LOL.

I cannot BEGIN to tell you what an absolute thrill it is to have a SEASONED professional such as yourself grace the pages of this forum. To have such an expert debase himself, lower himself to our level, just so we can learn at the feet of a master is truly a life-changing experience.

We would not dream of arguing with you. WordPress is not professional, definitely. Only rank amatuers would think that WP could be used as anything serious.

As a matter of fact, I'll go out of my way to let Mashable - Social Media News and Web Tips (Alexa rank 284), Smashing Magazine (Alexa rank 471), and TechCrunch (Alexa 414) know that the next time they need a real web pro, they should talk to you instead of the guys at Web Design Company | W3 EDGE | Boston, MA. They're obviously not even in your league. Since those sites are all built on WP, they're projecting an extremely unprofessional image. I've totally lost all respect for them.

Thank you again for bestowing your words of wisdom upon us, it is unbelievably generous of you.

AW

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Richard Whyte 13 years ago

Well, I for one am glad Wordpress sucks.... Now I can tell those hundred plus clients I have installed Wordpress sites for that they all need an upgrade to Joomla.

Looks like March is going to be very busy....

Well, I have done all kinds of things with WP.... And I am sure you can do all kinds of things with Joomla.... Both are stable and good... But difference in the design is the designer / coder. You can have great WP or Joomla sites... and you can have bad WP or Joomla sites....
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dkirkland

13 years ago

Originally Posted by SteveJohnson

I cannot BEGIN to tell you what an absolute thrill it is to have a SEASONED professional such as yourself grace the pages of this forum. To have such an expert debase himself, lower himself to our level, just so we can learn at the feet of a master is truly a life-changing experience.

We would not dream of arguing with you. WordPress is not professional, definitely. Only rank amatuers would think that WP could be used as anything serious.

...

Thank you again for bestowing your words of wisdom upon us, it is unbelievably generous of you.

AW

** snickers **

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Evan-M

13 years ago

Originally Posted by iAmNameLess

Steve, a LOT of people DO charge only 50-100, look around on the forum. The going rate for wordpress sites is very low. Wordpress, is NOT professional, maybe a professional blog, obviously you don't spend much time with web design. Wow what with the 400-600? Most basic sites will fit in that range, with me at least.

How can you honestly say that? How can you tell me that wordpress can accomplish what joomla can? How can it accomplish what Drupal can? What about magento or prestashop? That is just ridiculous and you know it.

I challenge anyone on this site, we'll create sites, you create on a wordpress format, and I'll create using Joomla, drupal, or magento depending on the site, and we'll see what looks better, is more functional and what the client chooses. If you win, I give you money from the client. Fair enough? LOL.

You can't have a social network with wordpress, you can with joomla, and drupal. You can't have a robust dynamic website with wordpress like you can with drupal. You can't have a massive ecommerce website with wordpress, you can with magento.

So here is the deal, people can argue with me all they want but when it comes down to it, you're still wrong. Wordpress, is simple, it is easy, and unfortunately the majority of people building websites don't know anything other than wordpress. For any SEASONED web developer, they know that wordpress is the bottom of the chain, it serves its original purpose and that is about it. They are making improvements but have a long way to catch up. Seriously, contact the top web development firms in the country, ask if they use wordpress, FOR ANYTHING. LOL.

Im Not even going to argue with you, its really not worth my time..... I know your one of those developers that has very little or no experience with WordPress, and lots with Joomla or drupal.Having more sites made in WordPress is bad for business.

did you actually read what I said, or skimmed it?

don't get me wrong, some things just shouldn't be done in WordPress, like eCommerce, but to say WordPress is unprofessional, and it would look like every other WordPress site, is a bit fare fetched.

SteveJohnson I think iAmNameLess has a point who's "Mashable" , TechCrunch ? what do they do, crunch there web server because they arn't using droopla ? and Smashing Magazine , they don't need a good site, there a Magazine for god sakes lol

hahaha

btw iAmNameLess, I was a developer for ModX, but at the end of the day, the community support and wide use of WordPress sets it apart.The limitations of WordPress depend only on the experience and resources of the user. The same can be said for most of the larger supported cms systems.

can someone please define robust dynamic website ? isn't that what WordPress is? NOOO WordPress is just a blog

Ill start using joomla again tho, once they incorporate a "please wait we are loading the next page" animation, that has a built in game people can play while they wait.

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Karen Blundell 13 years ago

lol@Steve Johnson:
do you believe the ignorance oozing out of this thread? omg!

@iAmNameless:
WordPress is so unprofessional that Johns Wu was able to sell Bankaholic.com built using WordPress for a cool 12.5 million dollars to Bankrate back in 2009.

And for the record, you can have an ecommerce-enabled WordPress site. You can have any kind of site using WordPress, actually. And I have used both Drupal and Joomla. They are great apps, no doubt. But they are also Open Source, just like WordPress is. They aren't any more or any less professional than WordPress, they are just different, and more suitable for portal sites.
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- SteveJohnson 13 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Karen Blundell
  
  lol@Steve Johnson:
  do you believe the ignorance oozing out of this thread? omg!
  
  A wondrous sight to behold, isn't it?
  
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13 years ago

Originally Posted by iAmNameLess

Wordpress is great for blogs... I never denied that.

Yeah, actually, you did:

Originally Posted by iAmNameLess

Seriously, contact the top web development firms in the country, ask if they use wordpress, FOR ANYTHING. LOL.

And now you're backpedaling a little bit.

I couldn't find anyone who said that WP is good for everything, all the time. No platform is. Which, to your credit, you pointed out.

You were kind of insulting at first, with remarks like "Wordpress, is NOT professional, maybe a professional blog, obviously you don't spend much time with web design." Those kinds of cracks don't earn you points in anyone's book. They also tend to minify whatever useful information you might be able to add.

As an aside, I really have spent 'much time with web design'. I think I still have the 3.5" floppies that HomeSite 2 and ColdFusion came on...if that doesn't date me, nothing will.

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13 years ago

Originally Posted by SteveJohnson

Yeah, actually, you did:

And now you're backpedaling a little bit.

I couldn't find anyone who said that WP is good for everything, all the time. No platform is. Which, to your credit, you pointed out.

You were kind of insulting at first, with remarks like "Wordpress, is NOT professional, maybe a professional blog, obviously you don't spend much time with web design." Those kinds of cracks don't earn you points in anyone's book. They also tend to minify whatever useful information you might be able to add.

As an aside, I really have spent 'much time with web design'. I think I still have the 3.5" floppies that HomeSite 2 and ColdFusion came on...if that doesn't date me, nothing will.

Well, I'm sorry if I came across as insulting, it isn't my intentions, just the blunt opinionated irish inside me.

I suppose, I should start saying if you are a true developer you can do anything, with any CMS.

In my opinion, wordpress, IS the least professional looking CMS. Really though, if you are an actual developer, it doesn't matter if you create a custom CMS, wordpress, joomla, drupal, prestashop even, even reliant cms, you can still get the jobs done.

When people just starting out, learn wordpress, I would say 99% of the time, it just doesn't look professional. Perhaps my view is tainted though, I have seen thousands of MFA sites with wordpress, because of the ease of getting the site up VERY fast. Obviously spending 30 minutes on a site isn't going to yield the same look as a 40 hour basic website. I think if people made a switch to joomla or drupal, they would like the results.

LOL@floppies... what about hotmetal pro and pagemil, remember those too?

Either way, if you can develop, you can develop. At that point it is what the developer prefers as a starting foundation. You can look through this thread, and this section of the forum and people always are saying wordpress is the best for everything, and the truth is the majority of them haven't used anything other than wordpress, or maybe tried and failed.

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13 years ago

Originally Posted by iAmNameLess

Either way, if you can develop, you can develop. At that point it is what the developer prefers as a starting foundation. You can look through this thread, and this section of the forum and people always are saying wordpress is the best for everything, and the truth is the majority of them haven't used anything other than wordpress, or maybe tried and failed.

Exactly.

And if you can't, you can't - and shouldn't.

I don't do $600 web sites any more. Higher-end clients appreciate the expertise I and the people I work with have, and they pay for it because they get measurable results.

They also tend to bitch a lot less.

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13 years ago

Originally Posted by SteveJohnson

Exactly.

And if you can't, you can't - and shouldn't.

I don't do $600 web sites any more. Higher-end clients appreciate the expertise I and the people I work with have, and they pay for it because they get measurable results.

They also tend to bitch a lot less.

Yep, and I have been learning this the hard way, I have been focusing on bigger projects, and occasionally over the weekends take on low budget projects. I have had a 20,000 dollar project, where things kept going wrong, and the customer was 100% satisfied. Then a weekend project, less than $500, was a disaster. Everything was perfect, but the client was soooo difficult and wanted to change EVERYTHING different than what he originally wanted.

Higher end clients, are easier to please, and definitely more pleasant to deal with.

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Evan-M

13 years ago

Originally Posted by iAmNameLess

Yep, and I have been learning this the hard way, I have been focusing on bigger projects, and occasionally over the weekends take on low budget projects. I have had a 20,000 dollar project, where things kept going wrong, and the customer was 100% satisfied. Then a weekend project, less than $500, was a disaster. Everything was perfect, but the client was soooo difficult and wanted to change EVERYTHING different than what he originally wanted.

Higher end clients, are easier to please, and definitely more pleasant to deal with.

Couldn't Agree With That Anymore!

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Patrick

13 years ago

If you are giving a basic site with the templates available on the internet for free, then charge somewhere around $30-$50. Do not charge much or else if they find out how easy it is, they will not use you in the future or recommend you to someone else.

Remember, you have to create business for the future. I have heard of people who charged around $500 only for a simple WP installation and a simple theme upload ( one of them in another thread ).

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mlcmartin

13 years ago

I charge per the amount of work that needs to be done. If the site takes an hour to set up then I wouldn't charge more than $50 for it. Quite often though there is a lot more work to be done. But I always make sure that they are getting what they pay for. However my advice to you is to get yourself a time tracking program and decide for yourself how much you want your time to be worth.

Think about it this way: if you have people coming to you all the time and want you to fix their website and you charge them according to the amount of work that needs to be done, they are always getting their money's worth and they will come back for more. However, you get to keep the experience and reuse it to deliver better service in the future so you will ultimately build up more and more capital within your business over time and increase your rates as you will be able to deliver more value in a shorted period of time.

So the price depends on two things: you want to make a profit and at the same time you want to give them their money's worth of service so that they come back for more. It's a balancing thing.

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GPGame

13 years ago

Not much, however, I would charge 50 USD for a Wordpress site. If designed good in HTML, I charge only 150 USD which clients feel worth.

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Thomas Frank

13 years ago

Wordpress is great. It's professional capabilities might have been limited to blogs in the past, but that just isn't the case today. The additions that Wordpress 3 made, along with the huge amount of quality themes and plugins out these days, makes it a great choice for a wide range of website types.

However, that isn't to say it's perfect for everything. The requirements of the project will dictate what platform is needed. Certain projects might fall outside the bounds of popular CMSs altogether and need something like Zend Framework to complete. It all depends.

Speaking of CMSs, I seem to remember a CMS Showdown a couple years ago at SXSW...

OP, as for your question of what to charge, I'd say you should take into consideration both the amount of work YOU have to put into the project, as well as what the project entails. I know a lot of people that think setting up a good Wordpress site is just a matter of throwing Wordpress on a server and picking a theme, but that simply isn't the case. You could spend a LOT of time getting the site to the client's specifications. For one, you may have more trouble accommodating special design requests when working with a theme (this really depends on the theme). You can also spend untold hours finding and tweaking plugins.

For example, I always spend a good amount of time setting up proper SEO and security when I create a Wordpress site. Those two things alone can be worth a lot.

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OaldDesign

13 years ago

If it is just design you can charge around $50-100 if you code it as well go for $100-300

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spesialis

13 years ago

I'd say charge for a customer value

A website for a law firm can generate tens or hundreds of thousands $$$ per year for a single client. It's only rational if the web developer charge >$10k for the site.

A restaurant site, which only brings hundreds of dollars per customer per year, so how about $500 for the site?

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healthtourism

13 years ago

I charge $50 only..

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13 years ago

Originally Posted by Karen Blundell

lol@Steve Johnson:
do you believe the ignorance oozing out of this thread? omg!

@iAmNameless:
WordPress is so unprofessional that Johns Wu was able to sell Bankaholic.com built using WordPress for a cool 12.5 million dollars to Bankrate back in 2009.

And for the record, you can have an ecommerce-enabled WordPress site. You can have any kind of site using WordPress, actually. And I have used both Drupal and Joomla. They are great apps, no doubt. But they are also Open Source, just like WordPress is. They aren't any more or any less professional than WordPress, they are just different, and more suitable for portal sites.

Yes, you CAN have ecommerce enabled with wordpress, but it isn't a good idea.

LOL... bankaholic selling for 12.5 million has absolutely NOTHING to do with wordpress. Actually, I think it was 15 million. Ultimately it depends on the developer. That domain had enough value by itself, with NO CMS. Wordpress was IDEAL for bankaholic, know why? BECAUSE IT WAS A BLOG!!!!!! LOL.

Wordpress has ideal purposes.... as does every other CMS. If the developer KNOWS what they are doing, it doesn't matter if it is wordpress, drupal, magento, or custom CMS. For people starting out, it is best to use a certain CMS for different things.

I won't use wordpress, joomla, or drupal for an extensive ecommerce site. I would use magento because it is more ideal, efficient, and practical. Plus it looks more polished overall.

Wordpress is great for blogs... I never denied that.

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dkirkland

13 years ago

Originally Posted by iAmNameLess

Wordpress is great for blogs... I never denied that.

It's also great for small local/service industry businesses. Especially those that are owned by people with little to no web design experience or technical skill. You said WP isn't professional and that you do not recommend it. From the sounds of it this is misc92's first web design rodeo and his clients aren't exactly the most technically savvy people around. Sounds like WordPress is exactly what misc92 should be using.

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13 years ago

Originally Posted by dkirkland

It's also great for small local/service industry businesses. Especially those that are owned by people with little to no web design experience or technical skill. You said WP isn't professional and that you do not recommend it. From the sounds of it this is misc92's first web design rodeo and his clients aren't exactly the most technically savvy people around. Sounds like WordPress is exactly what misc92 should be using.

When it comes to developing sites, with 0 experience and you need it to have certain features, I still wouldn't recommend wordpress for everyone.

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misc92

13 years ago

Originally Posted by dkirkland

From the sounds of it this is misc92's first web design rodeo and his clients aren't exactly the most technically savvy people around. Sounds like WordPress is exactly what misc92 should be using.

Back in 07 and 08 i designed a couple html websites from scratch with dream weaver aid. But its true, this are my first "rodeos" with serious designs.

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dkirkland 13 years ago

Originally Posted by healthtourism

I charge $50 only..

To do what exactly? Just install WordPress and configure the default settings? Or are you saying that you will install a custom theme that they purchase and configure it as well? You're not saying that you will build a custom WP theme for $50, are you?
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Thomas Frank

13 years ago

When it comes to a custom HTML site around 5-8 pages, without a ton of programming needed, I usually charge around $300-$350. These jobs have all included client meetings, custom layouts, and me typing in all content.

It really all depends on your market. For my area, this rate is pretty good.

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