w3.org Validation Anyone?

17 replies
  • WEB DESIGN
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Has anyone tried to get 100% validation with w3.org? Is there any software, aside from tidy, that can be used to FIX html errors?

Have see software that tells you the errors but doesnot fix them.

Thanks
#html validation #tidy #validate #validation #w3.org #w3org
  • Profile picture of the author jonhel
    I have never bothered with getting 100% ok.

    I only concern myself with what I consider to be serious errors.
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  • Profile picture of the author Mark Brian
    I don't think a bot/software could actually fix HTML errors, if they do, it may result to a different look/design than you actually desired.
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  • Profile picture of the author KathyK
    I fix mine by hand and I get 100% validation on a new blog/sidebars, etc. But the minute you start cut/pasting articles, that tends to go away, unless you are very careful. So I doubt my blogs validate at the moment.

    I don't think there are any automatic programs that will really fix your coding - especially on a dynamic site. Tidy does a pretty decent job on a static html page. But (as mentioned above) you may find your site suddenly looking a bit different, since tidy just fixes code - it does nothing for design. And it can sometimes REALLY mess up your page if you are starting with serious errors.
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    Cheers,
    Kathy

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  • Profile picture of the author v7web
    I also code all my sites or vBulletin skins by hand, that way I know they are css/xhtml valid.
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  • Profile picture of the author n7 Studios
    Originally Posted by BlackBookProject View Post

    Has anyone tried to get 100% validation with w3.org? Is there any software, aside from tidy, that can be used to FIX html errors?

    Have see software that tells you the errors but doesnot fix them.

    Thanks
    This is a really interesting question, and I'm glad you've brought it up.

    W3C validation is important, in my eyes. It ensures that your markup ((X)HTML) and CSS is valid, specific to the document type you've specified at the start of your web pages.

    Does a non-validated web page make any practical difference to the layout / look of your web page for your visitors?
    Probably not. However, the validator is a useful tool to use if your web site isn't displaying properly and you can't figure out why. It can detect missing closing tags, which again, are a small but common issue that sometimes you can't see, because you're so engrossed in the code you're working on.

    Is it essential to get 100% validation?
    No, but from experience, it's not hard to achieve - and specifications are there for good reason; because the browsers (should) also follow them, which results in web sites that 95% work across most browsers without any tweaks or hacks.

    Yes - Internet Explorer "breaks" how our markup works, especially IE6 - but from experience, I've found a validated page will still 90% work in IE6, and with IE7, and IE8 moving towards a better rendering engine that's more consistent, we're starting to converge towards the point where our validated web page should, with a couple of amends, just work.

    Bear in mind that most validation errors have a knock on effect for other errors - so fixing one fixes 5, 10, even 20 other validation errors. Some common validation issues are:
    • Images - specifying ALT tags
    • Links with arguments - using the ampersand instead of &alt;
    • Forms - different document types specify different attributes for forms and their field elements - for example, XHTML Strict requires form elements to be nested inside a parent element, such as a paragraph or div - wheras HTML Transistional doesn't require this.
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  • Profile picture of the author fragin_bastich
    I validate all of my pages/themes/designs...which are hand coded. I KNOW that when I have finished building a wordpress theme, site, etc it validates 100% for it's specific doctype...If whoever I am coding it for makes changes after the fact that breaks validation, I KNOW and have documentation that when I finished the project it was 100% validated and working.

    I DO think it's important and I'll tell you why. Even If you don't care about web standards (which many don't) every time a new version/upgrade of a browser is released it has the potential of "breaking" sites that don't validate for their doctype. Spend a few weeks fixing sites that looked fine a week ago, but with your newest IE upgrade look like crap (as IE evolves...we hope) and you will appreciate valid code.
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    • Profile picture of the author n7 Studios
      Originally Posted by fragin_bastich View Post

      I validate all of my pages/themes/designs...which are hand coded. I KNOW that when I have finished building a wordpress theme, site, etc it validates 100% for it's specific doctype...If whoever I am coding it for makes changes after the fact that breaks validation, I KNOW and have documentation that when I finished the project it was 100% validated and working.

      I DO think it's important and I'll tell you why. Even If you don't care about web standards (which many don't) every time a new version/upgrade of a browser is released it has the potential of "breaking" sites that don't validate for their doctype. Spend a few weeks fixing sites that looked fine a week ago, but with your newest IE upgrade look like crap (as IE evolves...we hope) and you will appreciate valid code.
      True - but Firefox 3 introduced a few quirks to page rendering and the box model (in extreme circumstances) that differed from Firefox 2. Despite having a valid doctype, and fully validated site, Firefox 3 managed to alter the layout of a site that Firefox 2 was fine with.

      That said, it still pays to validate your sites - it means you can at least point out to the client that it was fully tested and working in the browsers you've tested the site on, and as new browsers evolve, we should hopefully get to the point where doctypes are followed fully, and we don't have annoying quirks on our web sites.
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      • Profile picture of the author fragin_bastich
        Originally Posted by n7 Studios View Post

        True - but Firefox 3 introduced a few quirks to page rendering and the box model (in extreme circumstances) that differed from Firefox 2. Despite having a valid doctype, and fully validated site, Firefox 3 managed to alter the layout of a site that Firefox 2 was fine with.

        That said, it still pays to validate your sites - it means you can at least point out to the client that it was fully tested and working in the browsers you've tested the site on, and as new browsers evolve, we should hopefully get to the point where doctypes are followed fully, and we don't have annoying quirks on our web sites.
        I agree completely that as newer browsers are released they will render a bit different regardless of validation or doctype. The point was really that when those issues occur (which they will, as you pointed out) MAINTAINING a site that you KNOW has valid code to start with is far easier and faster than playing "ring-around-the-f**ked up column" trying to FIX a site that had all of it's hacks fall apart.

        That's not to say I haven't updated a site or template here and there with some sort of hack to get through the day ('cause I have) but only until a permanant solution can be found and implemented. Unfortunatly it's not ALWAYS possible to please every browser the way you would like, but I would like to think that if everyone began coding in valid , current, and semantic code, the better and more uniform browsers would become in their support of standards.
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    • Profile picture of the author absbica
      Originally Posted by fragin_bastich View Post

      I validate all of my pages/themes/designs...which are hand coded. I KNOW that when I have finished building a wordpress theme, site, etc it validates 100% for it's specific doctype...If whoever I am coding it for makes changes after the fact that breaks validation, I KNOW and have documentation that when I finished the project it was 100% validated and working.

      I DO think it's important and I'll tell you why. Even If you don't care about web standards (which many don't) every time a new version/upgrade of a browser is released it has the potential of "breaking" sites that don't validate for their doctype. Spend a few weeks fixing sites that looked fine a week ago, but with your newest IE upgrade look like crap (as IE evolves...we hope) and you will appreciate valid code.
      Right on the money here...its better to stay up to speed and be validated then to be lazy and not worry about a few errors. If it takes an extra 5-10 minute to fix those errors..do it.
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      • Profile picture of the author Karen Blundell
        I also like my sites to validate. So I hand code most of the time. I love Firefox's Web Developer add-on tools, very handy for checking local files too!
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  • Profile picture of the author FlufyDufy
    I heard Google has some kind of Webmaster Tools that will help you optimize and improve your site coding to validate it correctly.
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    • Profile picture of the author n7 Studios
      Originally Posted by FlufyDufy View Post

      I heard Google has some kind of Webmaster Tools that will help you optimize and improve your site coding to validate it correctly.
      Sort of. Google's Webmaster Tools are more for seeing how Google sees your web site in its search results. So if you're getting quite a few 404 errors on your server logs from search results in Google, you can use Google Webmaster Tools to see which search results are causing problems.

      You can also submit a sitemap to Google, to get ideas on how you search results are performing.
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  • Profile picture of the author Gezawy
    A fantastic little software program called Tidy can help you tremendously. Tidy is a free program that you can get at w3.org/People/Raggett/tidy/.
    With Tidy, you can clean up your HTML files and remedy syntax problems quickly. Tidy will alert you to non-standard problems in your HTML source and give you warnings as well as error messages. Tidy can also "pretty print" your HTML files, allowing you to line up HTML elements on a page with uniform indentation and margins, so that your HTML file is easier to look at and maintain.

    You can get a free HTML editor for Windows 95/98/NT/2000 with integrated support for Tidy at evrsoft.com A text and HTML editor for Windows with built-in support for running HTML Tidy is available at notetab.com These tools help you quickly and easily produce HTML that conforms to standards.
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    • Profile picture of the author mongo22
      I have limited experience in this area, but after using Tidy, I tried to use the fixed coding and got an error with Blogger. Does this not work for Blogger sites?
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  • Profile picture of the author Darren Mothersele
    100% compliance isn't too hard to achieve... all my templates validate - well, at least until the client starts adding content

    Actually, there are some good content editors available for CMS systems that help the client produce XHTML validating content. bueditor and markitup are much better than tinymce in this respect.
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  • Profile picture of the author Limotek
    I like to ensure that all my pages validate but mainly from an accessibility and quality point of view. There's still little or no benefit of validated code in terms of SEO.
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  • Profile picture of the author maxsynergy
    That's not hard to do if you know what your doing with your XHTML / CSS.
    But at the beginning it gets tricky if you are inexperienced coder.
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