Where to start - from scratch or template?

27 replies
  • WEB DESIGN
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How many commercial website developers start a new site from scratch?

Is it a common practice to amend a suitable premium template?
#scratch #start #template
  • Profile picture of the author Karen Barr
    It's always easiest to start from a template, even if it's just the very basics.
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  • Profile picture of the author HostingWarrior
    If you want to learn as beginner then start from scratch and get ideas from template. After learning while using that knowledge in your project then it is better to start with the template rather than from scratch.
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  • Profile picture of the author simon1660
    2 years ago when i started to learn php and html i have build up my site from scratch in dreamweaver, it looked ugly, but it was my first site an applied all the knowledge i know. So if you want to Learn some basics than i suggest getting a site build from scratch.
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  • Profile picture of the author 4under
    If you're just getting started... Always build starting with a premium theme. Always! Here's why...

    1. It will save you a TON of time and time is money. You always want to do a great job for a client but you also need to turn the job quickly to be able to move on to new clients.
    2. You have to crawl, walk then run... When you're just staring out in the development world, I think it's best to work with professionally built themes / templates so you can see how someone with experience builds them before you attempt one on your own.
    3. Get really good at the basics... Learn CSS, HTML by getting VERY good at altering other premium themes, learn php and java as you need to when a client has a special request and in your spare time.

    For me, it's all about time... The faster I can complete a task (always making sure the customer is happy) the more money I'll make at the end of the day. I don't believe in reinventing the wheel if you don't have to.

    Hope this helps
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  • Profile picture of the author submit_articles
    Modifying seems like the way to go if you are trying to save money and wants to DIY. But if you spare the cash, premium templates will be much better. There are often more advanced features with premium themes.
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  • Profile picture of the author Kevin Rayman
    Modifying most probably is the easiest way to go.
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    • Profile picture of the author Young Samurai
      There does seem to be a consensus, namely,

      don't try to reinvent the wheel, modify a decent premium theme and learn from doing so.

      I'd like to hear from anyone who has a contrary view.

      & on the same subject,

      Is it OK - license wise - to modify and sell a premium theme purchased on a "Regular License" from, lets say, Themeforest?

      Thanks again,
      Signature
      Kyle
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  • Profile picture of the author xtrapunch
    Most WordPress themes are available under GPL. Or at least the PHP codes are GPL. So when you use the PHP, you are not doing anything wrong. However, copying the design isn't good practice. Create a new design.

    Premium themes are generally built on developer's own code repository. They don't copy other themes and make superficial changes. They create new themes.

    If you want to learn, start by creating basic themes/designs.
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  • Profile picture of the author rahmanpaidar
    Good ideas come from seeing other's works. When I get a website ordering from a client, I will first research his/her compitor's websites. Then I get initial idea to where I should go.
    After you decide a template theme, try to build a better yourself to overcome competitors. It's not that hard.

    I will assure you that most templates are composed of DIVs, IMGs, TEXTs, BORDERs and BG-COLORs and nothing more. Just add some spice to your work and after a few days of working your work should seems better than the original work.
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    • Profile picture of the author hawke777
      I second (third? fourth?) the use of a template as a starting point. But I also suggest (highly) the use of custom design so that your site doesn't look generic. Wordpress in particular is easy to identify, except for a few sites that really go to town on their modifications.
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      • Profile picture of the author Young Samurai
        The consensus over the use/customization of premium themes seems to growing.

        When xtrapunch said "Premium themes are generally built on developer's own code repository," does that simply mean each developer has their own core template code?
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        Kyle
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  • Profile picture of the author jducey1234
    I think it would depend on what type of website you are building, and how much time/effort you wanted to put into it.
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  • Profile picture of the author LucindaWatrous
    Yes, you are correct with what xtrapunch said. For instance, if I try to take the code from the Thesis theme, change it, and sell it on my own, then Chis Pearson (the theme's developer) could sue me for copyright infringement, as the code is protected just as the written word or music would be.

    Instead of claiming Thesis, or any other premium theme as my own, I inform my clients this is the basic core framework, and a custom *design* is implemented to give them a unique look and feel. If the design involves coding, I leave credit where credit is due in the actual source code.

    If you're trying to market something you're building as though it's from scratch, it should be from scratch, unless your original template license allows for you to modify without credit. In other words, don't take a code from Paul, change two lines, and call it yours unless you're willing to credit Paul, too.
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    • Profile picture of the author Young Samurai
      Quality response, thank you.

      Originally Posted by LucindaWatrous View Post

      Yes, you are correct with what xtrapunch said. For instance, if I try to take the code from the Thesis theme, change it, and sell it on my own, then Chis Pearson (the theme's developer) could sue me for copyright infringement, as the code is protected just as the written word or music would be.

      Instead of claiming Thesis, or any other premium theme as my own, I inform my clients this is the basic core framework, and a custom *design* is implemented to give them a unique look and feel. If the design involves coding, I leave credit where credit is due in the actual source code.

      If you're trying to market something you're building as though it's from scratch, it should be from scratch, unless your original template license allows for you to modify without credit. In other words, don't take a code from Paul, change two lines, and call it yours unless you're willing to credit Paul, too.
      Signature
      Kyle
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  • Profile picture of the author Casper C
    Many start from scratch, but modifying existing templates is a common practice yes. Whichever one you choose should depend on your client; the specification, the time you have to complete it, and the cost.

    For example, I won't even do a site from scratch for under $1000 nowadays. If a client has a budget of a few hundred, I will modify a template for them.

    Ideally, a good website is designed around the content structure, not the other way around. That's the problem with templates. However, if the client doesn't have anything too specific in mind and doesn't need to push their brand, then you can usually get away with just modifying a template rather than starting from scratch. However, if you have good coding and design skills, then you can edit a template to the point where it comes into its own.

    With Theme Forest, when you buy a template, you can modify it and sell it to a client. But if you want to do the same again with the same template, you have to pay again I believe.

    Also, not all developers build themes on their own core frameworks. In fact, a lot of premium themes were built on top of existing frameworks that were put together especially for theme-building.

    Anyway, when it comes down to it, your client will either have specific needs or they won't. If you can meet their needs by just modifying a premium template, then go for it, but be honest with your client. Some people pretend they're giving bespoke web design when really they're not - this isn't good.
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    • Profile picture of the author Young Samurai
      This response could be an informative thread all by itself. Thank you.

      Originally Posted by Casper C View Post

      Many start from scratch, but modifying existing templates is a common practice yes. Whichever one you choose should depend on your client; the specification, the time you have to complete it, and the cost.

      For example, I won't even do a site from scratch for under $1000 nowadays. If a client has a budget of a few hundred, I will modify a template for them.

      Ideally, a good website is designed around the content structure, not the other way around. That's the problem with templates. However, if the client doesn't have anything too specific in mind and doesn't need to push their brand, then you can usually get away with just modifying a template rather than starting from scratch. However, if you have good coding and design skills, then you can edit a template to the point where it comes into its own.

      With Theme Forest, when you buy a template, you can modify it and sell it to a client. But if you want to do the same again with the same template, you have to pay again I believe.

      Also, not all developers build themes on their own core frameworks. In fact, a lot of premium themes were built on top of existing frameworks that were put together especially for theme-building.

      Anyway, when it comes down to it, your client will either have specific needs or they won't. If you can meet their needs by just modifying a premium template, then go for it, but be honest with your client. Some people pretend they're giving bespoke web design when really they're not - this isn't good.
      Signature
      Kyle
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      • Profile picture of the author ronc0011
        It's sort of a "Chicken or the egg" situation. If you aren't very familiar with CSS and HTML then modifying templates can be very daunting because there is already a lot of existing code that you may not understand. This can make wrapping your head around the code of a template very difficult. Whereas writing clean uncluttered code at first makes the learning process much simpler. That being said, after you get a good grasp of the coding aspect of things modifying a template is a lot quicker because your basic skeleton for your site is already in place and all you have to do is add images and tweak some divs and stuff.
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        • Profile picture of the author Young Samurai
          An additional question to the OP,

          Whether using template or starting from scratch some coding knowledge is essential.

          There is no question about the necessity of html and css.

          Do you advise learning php from the outset?
          Signature
          Kyle
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          • Profile picture of the author rahmanpaidar
            Originally Posted by Young Samurai View Post

            An additional question to the OP,

            Whether using template or starting from scratch some coding knowledge is essential.

            There is no question about the necessity of html and css.

            Do you advise learning php from the outset?
            I recommend to master html, css and client side javascript first then
            proceed to one of server side languages such as php ot .NET.
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            • Profile picture of the author Young Samurai
              Thanks chaps for all the replies.

              Does anyone else concur with rahmanpaidar with his recommendation for javascript before php?

              Originally Posted by rahmanpaidar View Post

              I recommend to master html, css and client side javascript first then
              proceed to one of server side languages such as php ot .NET.
              Signature
              Kyle
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  • Profile picture of the author niba78
    It is always easier to start with a template obviously but there are some clients who really know what they want so you have to start from scratch with them. Though, I have an already established security framework I just plug-in on different projects. I think that is the only thing I could always re-use even with different contracts.
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  • Profile picture of the author alanabowe
    For a beginner like me, I prefer doing it from templates. By modifying the theme, I can also have an idea on how to it was built. As of now, I am trying to build some themes from scratch, applying the knowledge I obtain from previous projects.
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  • Profile picture of the author opencreativs
    modifying an existing theme will not create an efficient web designer..
    always start from scratch but take some references for help.. but dont copy them
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  • Profile picture of the author LoganWinters
    If you're learning, start from scratch - it will help you better understand how to design a good website.
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  • Profile picture of the author Marco Vitalès
    Learn from templates, acquire knowledge from tutorials and books. Then try to apply all what you learn in building a templat off scratch. Then finally, you can move on to building your own template from nothing.
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  • Profile picture of the author TheMarketeer1
    I write mine with Textpad or other text editor. Sometimes a template is very useful to see how things are put together and learn from them, but you should modify your templates to keep them from looking like everyone else's page
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  • Profile picture of the author aspnaren
    Depends upon the developer. Any good and noble designer wont go for a template coz he will that when his client sees a similar website like his website then its on the designers head.
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