Need Help/Advice for HTML/CSS Web Design

14 replies
  • WEB DESIGN
  • |
Hi guys,

I just got my first web design client and I need a bit of advice. They sent me this link as an example of what they want theirs to look like. Originally I was told they would just be choosing a template, which would have been simple for me to customize for them. However, they are dead set on having a site that mimics the example link.

I looked at the source for it and it's a mess of table-based design and mouseover javascript navigation buttons! Eeek...!

Does anyone know where I can find either a simple CSS template that will end up looking like this site does? I have spent hours searching and nothing is quite right so far...

Thanks in advance for any tips or help.
#design #help or advice #html or css #web
  • Profile picture of the author Holmstrom
    Hi, I am not sure, but does microsoft asp.net framework say something to you.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7433625].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author ClicProject
      Good God, that site looks like a throwback from the 90s.
      Can´t you show them an example of a modern template and knock it up in wordpress?
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7433797].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Brandon Tanner
      That's a pretty basic site... wouldn't take long to code something like that by hand (the right way, of course, using CSS instead of tables).

      You've got a dark grey background for the body. Then all you need is a horizontally centered wrapper div with a black background, then a handful of divs inside that (1 for the logo, 1 for the nav menu, 1 for the big image, and 1 for the footer).

      For the navigation menu, you can use an "unordered list". And you can use CSS to "animate" the menu text color changes on mouseover (a:hover). No Javascript required for that.

      Just learn the basics of the CSS positioning / layout... and you should be able to knock out a site like that in an afternoon.

      Check out the 10 steps at the following link for a quick crash course on CSS layout...

      Learn CSS Positioning in Ten Steps: position static relative absolute float
      Signature

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7433846].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Istvan Horvath
    If your "web design" (HTML, CSS) skills are insufficient to work on that project... why don't you just tell them honestly and step back?
    Signature

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7434094].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author David V
      Originally Posted by Istvan Horvath View Post

      If your "web design" (HTML, CSS) skills are insufficient to work on that project... why don't you just tell them honestly and step back?
      I second that!

      It shocks me to see on various forums/themeforest/etc... people asking questions that are a,b,c beginners questions AND they have a client.
      Wow, really?
      Nothing wrong with getting your feet wet and learning, but don't charge someone for it.
      Be a middle man maybe and farm it out while your improving your skills.

      Never tell a client to choose a template.....noooooooooooo. (screams unprofessional)
      Never clone a website for a client.....noooooooooooo. (use example sites as guides only)

      If they come to you with one and want modifications, then cool, but a web development service is not about buying templates. When clients request one specifically, maybe.
      I wouldn't even call that web development or web design.

      Don't be insulted, I know your starting out and the idea of some cash sounds awesome, I've been where you are many, many years ago and we all gotta start somewhere.

      But, based on your example site, if you don't have at least the skill to whip out that simple site by morning, you really should pass on the job, money or no money.

      You will bury yourself in headaches, which will come after your hand over the site.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7603514].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Designlove
    Tell them you think they should go for a more updated look like this template here Demo template Joomla
    Its a Joomla template for Joomla CMS, and it's "responsive" this means it adjusts to screen that is viewing it. (squeeze your browser page in to see what i mean, it will automatically adjust to the screen , be it mobile or ipad etc...)

    sell them on the fact that the site they like is old and outdated followed by what it could potentially look like (hence the template)

    if you feel the job is too much for you, you can refer it to me and I'll do it and give you a kick back.. we can talk more if you like. (i use joomla and can show my portfolio)

    Here's another joomla one with that style (it's non responsive tho) http://www.joomspirit.com/template-joomla/template_bw/
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7434720].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author ashloren
    Okay, I went ahead and chose a more modern and free CSS template to modify for this client. I showed them what I have so far and they loved it. I think it looks much better than the example site they wanted, what are your thoughts?

    By the way, they sell marine-themed artwork. I haven't added the text yet, but their photos seem to look nice in this template.
    Signature
    -Ashly Lorenzana
    AshlyLorenzana@gmail.com
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7602479].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Designlove
      Hey Ashloren
      If they Love it, it doesn't matter what we think! Keep up the good work and I'm glad you have happy clients.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7602498].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author run
    It's really that easy for us as web designers if the client could show their favorite styles. The example site is dead simple to work with from scratch. With combination of HTML5 & CSS3, the new site that similar but modern, smooth, user friendly, and animated hover state will proud your client.

    I don't know whether you are lazy or you can't do it because it's that simple to do just little task as a web project!
    Signature
    I just wanna tell you that most of the links in the signature are trash and/or a trap to make you pay!
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7603613].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Designlove
    I would disagree with David V on some points.
    Nothing wrong with getting your feet wet and learning, but don't charge someone for it.
    Be a middle man maybe and farm it out while your improving your skills.
    I disagree and agree with this one. This is how i started out as well, and now I'm 6 years into it. It's important that she learn a CMS system so she can always update and change things around fast with a Wordpress or Joomla CMS site. Dave is right one one point having a "Client" in the beginning can bring headaches down the line if you charge for the site - Like how it's being hosted, security, images copyrights, etc.. Time is money, charge away!

    Never tell a client to choose a template.....noooooooooooo. (screams unprofessional)
    Never clone a website for a client.....noooooooooooo. (use example sites as guides only)
    I don't think she's claiming to be a pro or being "unprofessional". Her client wanted a specific template look and she changed it on something she could manage to pull off better. This is ok in the beginning, she'll master this down the line. I believe this is ok when starting out.

    If they come to you with one and want modifications, then cool, but a web development service is not about buying templates. When clients request one specifically, maybe.
    I wouldn't even call that web development or web design.
    I believe you are off here. Why reinvent the wheel? Whether you or a seperate coder writes the CSS (style and design) who cares. I think it's Ok to buy a template then change the CSS around to fit your needs. No use coding from scratch if you don't need to , especially if you want to offer your client a cheaper price. Because if im coding it from scratch, they will be paying a pretty penny for that kind of time. If the client needs a specific plugin or "site ability" then there are a billion coders out there that you can pay to write that program for you and incorporate into your website. Whether it's in house or referral, it doesn't make you any less a "Web Design / development company".

    But, based on your example site, if you don't have at least the skill to whip out that simple site by morning, you really should pass on the job, money or no money.
    By morning or pass?? What kind of lame advice is this? This one is offensive. Just because you may be a big shot and can whip out a site in an hour based on your experience and programs you are comfortable with, doesn't give you the right to say "whip it out by morning or give up". It's a tough economy out there, people are scraping by. Bless her heart for going for it! this is how she'll learn. This is an easy job and she can refer just the hard stuff if she needs to...

    You will bury yourself in headaches, which will come after your hand over the site.
    headaches is how you learn. It's how i learned! no one taught me.. i didn't join a forum like this and ask questions. I got my hands dirty and learned as i went. Made my mistakes and changed them.

    Develop your skills and eye for design. Constantly look at others designs and steal elements from them. Everyone on the planet steals ideas and expounds upon them. That's all Steve Jobs from Apple ever did. Saw a great idea that someone else created and said "I can make it better or different" nothing wrong with that. If anyone tells you different, just know that, that person is a "plagiarizer" just like the rest of the world. "There is nothing new under the sun."

    Develop that eye girl and look at new designs all the time.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7603660].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author David V
      Originally Posted by Designlove View Post

      I don't think she's claiming to be a pro or being "unprofessional". Her client wanted a specific template look and she changed it on something she could manage to pull off better. This is ok in the beginning, she'll master this down the line. I believe this is ok when starting out.

      I believe you are off here. Why reinvent the wheel? Whether you or a seperate coder writes the CSS (style and design) who cares. I think it's Ok to buy a template then change the CSS around to fit your needs. No use coding from scratch if you don't need to , especially if you want to offer your client a cheaper price.
      I'm not claiming she's unprofessional, ashloren, I actually wish you the best. Some of the advice was so that she becomes a professional. I think she will master this as well, just don't make it a habit, it will put a ceiling over your head (income) and become a crutch.
      I agree a cms is the way to go, and mainstream. Solid html & css skills will be required before doing that.

      "web development service is not about buying templates"
      This might have come across wrong, maybe I'm a little biased on this one.
      Changing a few images and colors is not web development, it's called a webmaster.
      The creator of the theme is a web developer, although a web developer could choose the business model of just modifying themes.

      "Why reinvent the wheel".
      Not really reinventing the wheel, as much as the knowledge and understanding that comes from scratch coding. (and more money). Using solid assets to your advantage is fantastic, there are some phenomenal frameworks out there, there's also a lot of junk that does not improve the web design industry as a whole, but makes it harder to maintain logical standards.
      I don't think there's a thing wrong with that type of business model, and LOT'S of "web design" companies do it.
      What I didn't say previously, but was the real intent, was that you will never grow into pulling down 4 & 5 figures per design job using that model. It's going to require solid coding experience. Who doesn't want to make as much as they can? nobody of course.
      I modify themes at times myself, but only at a clients specific request, and it doesn't pay much.

      "By morning or pass?? What kind of lame advice is this?"
      I think maybe your taking this the wrong way. I make no claims to be any big shot.
      I look at my clock and see that there's 8-9 hrs until morning. I have no idea what they might be paying, but any more time investment then that, your not really making any money for that size basic site. Learning experience, sure and that's great, but I'd love to see her come out of this with a decent pay and not realize she really didn't make anything. She should farm out the job on some freelance site and make some money just for being the middleman until html & css knowledge is comfortable.

      "headaches is how you learn"
      I completely agree, nothing teaches like first hand experience. But avoid them when you can, and avoid doing it at a clients expense.

      "That's all Steve Jobs from Apple ever did. Saw a great idea that someone else created and said "I can make it better or different" nothing wrong with that"
      Your spot on with that. Everyone does this and the industry moves forward with the improvements. Improved frameworks, theme structures, css (less), so wouldn't you want to be the guy with the next framework? of course, takes solid knowledge.

      Now obviously this conversation is veering off course at this point.
      I do wish you (ashloren) the best and hope it goes well.
      Although I disagree with taking on clients before a solid code knowledge is established, if I see a free template that could work for you with minimal pain and modification work, I'll post a link to help you out.
      @designlove, thanks for the chat
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7603896].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author ashloren
    I appreciate the insights and advice shared by everyone so far. I just wanted to clarify, so that there is no misunderstanding.

    I didn't get paid much to do this, and rightfully so. I'm certainly not skilled enough to demand much pay for what I'm doing. I was thinking of it as more of a "website setup" service than "web development or design."

    The business I'm doing it for is VERY offline, about as offline as you could get. They didn't know how to setup a domain, hosting and all of that sort of thing. So I did those things, plus found them a template to modify and basically just am adding their photos and text to it.

    That's really all they needed.

    Personally, I use Wordpress for my websites. I only claim to be at a beginner level with HTML and CSS, but I do enjoy tinkering with both as a hobby.

    Thanks again guys.
    Signature
    -Ashly Lorenzana
    AshlyLorenzana@gmail.com
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7604227].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author David V
      A little mole became a mountain of a conversation, hope you don't feel jaded, everything is good!
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7604307].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author goldmineberry
    Banned
    You can easily find solutions to your clients' needs by outsourcing the technical stuffs to quality outsourcers. Cheers.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7608746].message }}

Trending Topics