PPC TO CPA Making Money Is About The Market Not The Offer - Example Case Study

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Of Course I am biased, PPC Marketing and Adwords Consulting is what I do, but I believe that, if you have a marketing budget to work with, PPC is one of the only methods we have where we can determine the traffic we get, and where it goes.

While I will be the first to admit SEO is a major part of marketing, and everyone should use it, I know from my own experiences that being at the mercy of the Google Algorithm is not a good way to build a long term business.

With PPC You can choose your keywords, laser target your customers and direct those visitors to a page of your choosing. No other medium when mastered correctly can give such effective results.

So let's turn all the PPC To CPA Guru stuff I keep reading on its head, and look it at from an alternative side.. a side that works, and will make you money, not just today, but long term if you implement it.

STOP choosing CPA offers, and START choosing a market.

When I use Adwords either for my own business, or for my clients, the first thing I have to do is understand what the market is and who the customers are for the product.

What does that mean ? Well , let us take 2 similar products from the Neverblue network they emailed me this week

Premium **** Slim or **** Force Max for Men These are 2 **** Products. But the Vertical ( as Neverblue Call it ) is Diet.

My point is ,products come and go, the market doesn't, What is hot this month, may not be hot next month, last year it was Hoodia, today it is **** Berry, Next Month ?. You see, the market is what counts.

If you really want to make money with CPA, or indeed any service, you need to choose a Market first, learn that market and then dominate that market.

I have made my living online since 1996 and done Pay Per Click marketing since 2002 , back then you only had to load up as many keywords as you could think of , all of them cost about 5 cents each, and away you went. It was pretty easy money back then. Ah " the good old days"

But the market has changed, Google now are king ( Back then it was Overture ) and in these days of Quality Scores, Landing Page Optimisations and Google Slaps, You have to use a system that fits with the way Google want you to work. You can bitch and moan all you like about Google, but they ain't listening to you ! Adapt or Die, it's that simple.

Why Choose A Market And Not A Product

I will give you a real example that I have used myself shortly, but just for a second, let me elaborate on the **** and Diet topic as it is such a common theme at the moment.

When you use PPC marketing, be it Adwords, or one of the other services, there is a certain rule that applies every time.

You Must Understand The Search Continuum

That means you have to identify with the person who is entering the search keyword, why do they enter that term, where are they in the buying cycle etc. To make money with a product, you have to understand the person who will be your customer, put simply, you find out what they want, and give them it.

Now let's take the product, **** Force Max for Men - Now think market

It Is a Diet and Weight Loss Product
It is aimed at Men

Also by looking at landing pages for the product, I can see what the product owners are using to help make me sign up.
" get ripped abs "
" lose weight "
" Hollywood's hottest diet "
" boost energy levels "

Did you get some keyword ideas there ?
So your customer is..

1 A MAN ( I think most of us figured that one out )

2 A Man who wants to lose weight.

He may also be a man searching for getting ripped, or getting 6 pack abs.

So now put yourself in the shoes of the Man who sat at his computer screen this morning and decided he needs to lose that gut that is hanging over his pants .... what is he going to type into google ?

best diet for men ?
weight loss for men?
diets for men?
lose belly fat ?
fast weight loss ?
diet pills that work ?


My point ? What we are doing here is choosing the Male Weight Loss Market, not that product.

What the customer wants, is to lose weight. Give him what he wants.

I would build my own landing pages, with my own tracking, and capture that users name and email address. WHY ?

Because I now have a male subscriber to a list that I know is wanting to lose weight.

Yes I can send him to the **** Burn Product, but I also now have the option to offer him exercise programmes, 6 pack abs products, Other networks CPA offers or any future CPA offer that would fit his profile. When he is on MY LIST I don't have to decide if Clickbank or CPA Network offers are how I should make money, I simply choose a product I think fits the customer, and tell him about it. The customer has lifetime value to me.

So, just to repeat it, I don't choose a product first, I choose a market first. I would make my decision on do I want to sell to the Male Weight Loss market, if the answer is yes, I will set about understanding who my customer is. There will never be a shortage of products you can sell to Men who want to lose weight, but if all you do is send traffic to that one offer, when the offer is gone, so is your income stream, and you have to start again.

Let me shout it out Using PPC to Send Traffic to CPA offers is NOT a viable long term profitable business. The people you see telling you the money is in the list know something !

With PPC costs rising, you need a sound business plan to make money, even if you are a successful affiliate marketer, you need to start to own the customer, that way the power is with you. Google is making it harder and harder for affiliates to do this the easy way, It is time to build it as a business.

I promised a real life example so here it is


PPC to CPA - Payday Loans

Although I was using CPA offers for Payday loans, In my view I was in the debt market.

I got into this market back in 2007 I used different CPA offers from different networks, often at the same time.

I chose the market for these reasons.

1 Repeat business - The customer who takes a payday loan, will in most cases want another one soon.

2 A number of different offers from different networks were available to promote.

3 The Economic climate meant this market is strong.

4 Potential to sell additional services to customers


Who Is My Customer ?

There is a saying in marketing, " give the customer what he wants, then educate him to what he needs "

My customer is someone who has financial problems, is short of money, and believes they require a short term payday loan . They most likely have credit card debts, and serious credit problems.

Long term reality - They need debt advice and debt help. That is what they need, but in their mind, at the time they are searching, they just want a loan,they think a quick cash fix will solve the problem, so you give them what they want - The Payday Loan - and educate them to what they need ( via regular email marketing ) Debt Help. With that process I make money twice.

Selling to this customer

Potential products for this customer

Payday Loans
Logbook Loans
Cash 4 Gold type offers
Debt Management/ Advice Services
Pay As You Go Visa/Mastercard services.
Rebuild Your Credit
Reducing Monthly Bills Services

One of the easiest sales is when you can play on human emotion: In this market example, that is very easy to do.

Getting this type of customer to fill out your form is not a hard sell, they want a loan, You tell them if they fill out the form with name and email your going to present the best payday loan option for them and fast.

If you structure your landing pages in the right way, You conversion rates will be high.

In this market my lowest landing page optin rate for a keyword was 20% the Average was 45%

Because I had captured the customer, and not just sent them directly to one of the CPA offers, I know exactly what my conversion rates on each keyword are, and I have the luxury of testing different payday loan offers, to see which ones work.

I could also send weekly emails to the list including any new CPA cash advance services that came out.

I can also make my own direct lead deals with companies if my volume is high enough ( I have done this in the UK Debt Market )

I still make money off this list from users who signed up in 2007.

Has the cost of keywords gone up in this market ? Yes, but I still have a list. Can You still make money in this market ? Yes, but not if you try sending traffic direct. Why not ? Because with the system I just described I can outbid you on the words that I know work, I will make more off the customer than you will ( you are free to have the keywords that don't ! )

This actually gives you an answer to the " how are people making money in xxxx market when cost of clicks are xxxx "

Ok this may not always be true, I will explain about the Idiots in a moment, but if you keep seeing the same people in the same spots, long term, then you can be sure it is making them money.

It is not my style to band around figures of what I make, It must be my English reserve, I keep it to the facts of the work I do in terms of PPC ROI so let me just say that this market brings me over 100% ROI on PPC investment.

One thing you have to understand about PPC and especially Adwords.

There 2 types of people bidding on keywords

1 Smart Marketers

2 Idiots !

YOU CAN'T COMPETE WITH IDIOTS.


Idiots tend to be either

A ) Large corporation's with more money than sense, who bid high to be at the top of the page with no idea of if the keyword is valuable or not

B) PPC newbies, who pay any price they see for a high volume obvious keyword ( **** Berry Anyone ? ) until they have no money left. with only 11 first page spots to go at on a competitive term, trust me, there are more Idiots than there are spots available !


Smart Markers know their ROI, they know what they can afford to bid on a keyword to purchase a customer. They know to the cent what each keyword bid is worth, they track and test everything. THEY KNOW THEIR MARKET

My advice, Choose a market where you can sell to a customer more than once, trust me, applying just that one criteria to your marketing plan will make it easier trying to pick a CPA offer to promote.

Marketing lots of different offers in different markets may work well for SEO or Article marketers, but it is not my area of expertise, Adwords pay per click is, and my advice to you is choose one market and then learn to understand who your customer is first.

To summarise If you really want to make money with PPC To CPA start thinking like the smart marketers and stop following the pack,learn to dominate one market first, if you are going to use Pay Per Click to drive traffic, you have to understand the keyword conversation. The secret... if there ever was a secret, to making money on CPA offers with PPC is not the offer, but the keywords the customer uses to search for what he or she wants.

Ok fellow Warriors, that is all from me, I hope this different view of the PPC to CPA marketing is of use to you.

Take care everyone

Dave
#case #cpa #making #market #money #offer #ppc #study
  • Profile picture of the author TE2
    Originally Posted by Dave Ward View Post

    STOP choosing CPA offers, and START choosing a market.
    Dave
    Dave,

    Big round of applause for your post.

    The statement quoted above is what most new (and many older) Internet marketers don't understand.

    It is step 1!

    Regards,

    John
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    • Profile picture of the author Tocholke
      Absolutely great post. It has really open my eyes. Thanks so much
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      • Profile picture of the author tuxonio
        Great post Dave!!
        ...awesome contributions by many warriors too,
        thanks for sharing all this knowledge

        AskiKaOwnzYou
        ...I agree with you scaling and patinece can bring you lots of
        freedom

        Cheers
        Signature
        Healthy Lifestyle
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  • Profile picture of the author Robyn8243
    Excellent information...you just gave people the answer to how to deal with future google slaps as well.

    Interesting how few of the CPA guides really emphasize the benefits of building a list.

    The underlying basis of getting paid for CPA offers is that you are providing the advertisers with a list...I can't think of any CPA markets that don't have the kind of opportunities you refer to.

    Thanks for a great post.

    Robyn
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    • Profile picture of the author Dave Ward
      Hi Robyn, John

      Thanks for the comments. Nice to know the post is appreciated
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    • Profile picture of the author BruceP
      BRAVO MAN!!!!

      I have been trying to learn PPC marketing for awhile now, I have a whole hard drive full of ebooks to show for it. I learned more from this one post about how to look at this business than all of those ebooks combined. Great insight on how it is done!!!
      I hope you do not mind but I copied it and saved to the same hard drive. It is worth more than anything else in there.

      Bruce
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      • Profile picture of the author Dave Ward
        Bruce your making me blush ! Of course I don't mind.

        regards

        Dave
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        • Profile picture of the author TE2
          Dave,

          You gave away more in your post than what people charge for in ebooks.

          The content you shared is golden!

          What you revealed is the also a critical success factor using CPV traffic. I pick the market, then the offers.

          Regards,

          John
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          • Profile picture of the author Dave Ward
            Originally Posted by TE2 View Post

            Dave,

            You gave away more in your post than what people charge for in ebooks.

            The content you shared is golden!

            What you revealed is the also a critical success factor using CPV traffic. I pick the market, then the offers.

            Regards,

            John
            Thanks John, It is interesting what you say about CPV, I think this shows, that though the ways to reach a customer advance, the basic principles, of choosing your market and knowing your customer, remain the same.

            Regards

            Dave
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          • Profile picture of the author pmcheck
            Originally Posted by TE2 View Post

            Dave,

            You gave away more in your post than what people charge for in ebooks.

            John
            I couldn't agree more, thanks alot.
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  • Profile picture of the author adtown
    Excellent post, Dave!
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  • Profile picture of the author JayInOrlando
    Hi Dave, thanks this advice does ring a bell with me. But there is one thing that I am hung up. I am promoting an offer, it's also an **** offer. I can see using keywords such as "****" would be not worth it, as the bid price is $8.00 or $9.00 just for a click a sure way to go broke fast. But, how do I find the good keywords, without testing them and spending that $8.00 or $9.00 a click to rule out the un productive ones.

    Jay
    Signature
    $600 a day? Easy! - Super Affiliates Contact ME for to get in on this private health supplement offer.
    !!! ONLY FOR THOSE WHO PUSH VOLUME !!!
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  • Profile picture of the author Dave Ward
    Hi Dave, thanks this advice does ring a bell with me. But there is one thing that I am hung up. I am promoting an offer, it's also an **** offer. I can see using keywords such as "****" would be not worth it, as the bid price is $8.00 or $9.00 just for a click a sure way to go broke fast. But, how do I find the good keywords, without testing them and spending that $8.00 or $9.00 a click to rule out the un productive ones.

    Jay
    Hi Jay,

    Your quoted bid prices may be due to a number of factors, but lets look at what the other options are

    Again, if we look at the market, **** is in the diet/ weight loss market, if a searcher is using that term in his/ her search, they are most likely further down the search continuum, or buying cycle.

    buying cycle is

    • Awareness
    • Interest
    • Consideration
    • Purchase
    • Retention
    • Advocacy

    If someone has put say "**** berry weight loss" in as a search, they are likely to be a more likely sale, than **** berry. The **** berry searcher is most likely wanting more information about it first before making a buying decision.

    Due to the amount of marketers on these terms though, this is why I say Choose A Market. Research other diet and weight loss related keywords,, and you will find cheaper keywords than $8 and $9. The example I gave in the original post about **** Burn for Men would apply though, my advice would be to build a list in the diet/ weight loss market. If the clicks in that market seem too expensive in terms of what you have to work with, then find a market where clicks cost less.

    Hope this helps

    Dave
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  • Profile picture of the author dropship
    Excellent, excellent info here!

    I can tell anyone that is questioning this method that I'm doing the exact same thing in just one niche where I constantly earn revenue from various CPA offers in the same niche over and over again from capturing user info the first time.
    Signature
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  • Profile picture of the author georgej
    Great insight dave...
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  • Profile picture of the author Buhry
    Tight post! Even though I'm a newbie to IM this makes total sense and I've been trying to do this. Kinda like how you should always do market research first, before going ahead and creating a product for a consumer base that might not exist.
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  • Profile picture of the author Roncham
    Sound advice Dave

    Just don't choose too broad of a market and don't focus on too narrow of a niche.
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  • Profile picture of the author itcoll
    very nice.Using both the opt-in and the cpa is really cool method.Thanks
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    • Profile picture of the author powyoung
      Give that man a cigar!! Very well said and insightful. It's such common sense, but something very few people do.
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      • Profile picture of the author powyoung
        Hey Dave I'd be interested in hearing your ideas and opinions on this. Every one says the money is in the list and to build a relationship with that list.

        However if you have 10 or 15 niche websites you cannot be an expert in each of those niches. While you can get PLR or ghost written articles to stick in an auto responder you won't really be able to brand yourself except in 2 or maybe 3 of those niches, without looking like some sort of scam artist.

        How do you get around this, or do you only brand yourself in 1 or 2 of those niches and not really bother with the others?
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        • Profile picture of the author Dave Ward
          Originally Posted by powyoung View Post

          Hey Dave I'd be interested in hearing your ideas and opinions on this. Every one says the money is in the list and to build a relationship with that list.However if you have 10 or 15 niche websites you cannot be an expert in each of those niches. While you can get PLR or ghost written articles to stick in an auto responder you won't really be able to brand yourself except in 2 or maybe 3 of those niches, without looking like some sort of scam artist.

          How do you get around this, or do you only brand yourself in 1 or 2 of those niches and not really bother with the others?
          Hi

          I would agree that building a relationship with the list is the best way to do it. When we buy stuff, we buy from people, not companies. If a sales person in a store is rude to us, we walk out, if they are helpful and friendly, there is more chance we make a purchase.

          If you can build a relationship with your list, you have more chance they will buy something from you.

          I don't think you have to be an expert in a market, so long as you present information from people who are.

          If you mean 10- 15 niches as 10 - 15 markets, then I would not do it that way.

          If you meant 10-15 niche sites in one market - for example Diet/ Weight Loss ( Diet and Fitness tend to go together ) could be ..

          Low Carb Diets
          Paleo Diet
          Diet Pill Reviews
          Diet Meal Plans
          Fitness Plans
          Muscle building
          etc

          That method is possible. You don't have to be an expert on muscle building for skinny guys for example, but you could get Vince Delmonte to do an article for you, but you can still build a relationship with the list.

          If someone was searching google for a solution to stop their Dog attacking the Fedex guy, you don't have to put yourself out there as the dog expert, just provide them what they want in a pleasant helpful way.

          In your chosen market, the more niche sites the better, this is actually what google want you to do. ( In PPC terms, Google want your page and site to be on topic in relation to the search )

          Hope that answers you question

          Dave
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  • Profile picture of the author KevScarb
    Dave,

    congratulations on not only an awesome post, but with the answers you are giving in the follow ups, I think an awesome thread too.

    Your post stopped me lurking and finally made me join Warrior Forum because I wanted to ask you a question too.

    Infact reading this thread, I agree with BruceP, I learnt more from your information , than I have from the ebooks I have bought. Thank you !

    My question to you is, should the budget you have to work with, be a factor in what markets you choose to work in ? If I have say $500 a month to invest in pay per click, should this also play a part in deciding the market ?

    Thanks again for sharing so much.

    Kev
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    • Profile picture of the author Dave Ward
      Originally Posted by KevScarb View Post

      Dave,

      congratulations on not only an awesome post, but with the answers you are giving in the follow ups, I think an awesome thread too.

      Your post stopped me lurking and finally made me join Warrior Forum because I wanted to ask you a question too.

      Infact reading this thread, I agree with BruceP, I learnt more from your information , than I have from the ebooks I have bought. Thank you !

      My question to you is, should the budget you have to work with, be a factor in what markets you choose to work in ? If I have say $500 a month to invest in pay per click, should this also play a part in deciding the market ?

      Thanks again for sharing so much.

      Kev
      Hi Kev,

      Thanks for the kind words.

      To answer your question, yes your budget will play a part in deciding your market. If you only have a small amount to work with, then you need to look at markets where bids are lower, perhaps in the 10 cent to 50 cents range. This would rule out many of the Finance niches, but there are markets where you can buy at below 50 cents per click and make money. Just don't let anyone fool you that you can spend $1000 per month, and make $50,000 off that investment.

      There are still products out there you can promote where the clicks will cost you less than 10 cents.

      One of the best markets out there that people don't touch is the B2B market, you can buy clicks at low prices, and sell reports that cost a $1000 +, you just have to be a creative. I buy clicks in one Industry at an avg of 8 euro cents, and sell a product that costs $2,500 ( it is not my product ) , it converts at about 1- 500 avg from the follow up mailings, I get over $800 per sale why would I bother with **** berry offers ?

      We are internet marketers, and there are many, many different markets out there.
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      • Profile picture of the author Giani
        Originally Posted by Dave Ward View Post



        One of the best markets out there that people don't touch is the B2B market,
        Hi Dave,

        Thanks for your ideas and strategies. I have one question. Can you give couple of examples of B2B market products.
        Signature

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  • Profile picture of the author ChrisBa
    gonna have to agree with OP on this one..

    One saying which has always held true to me.. 99% of the time it's the affiliate and not the offer (when an offer doesn't convert)
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  • Profile picture of the author sappire
    Dave, you just shattered my IM dream. I mean the idiot one!

    Great post, benefited a lot from this post!

    I think I should learn some marketing basics first. Any recommendation for books?
    Signature

    GOT MY NEW Lancer Evo!

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    • Profile picture of the author Dave Ward
      Originally Posted by sappire View Post

      Dave, you just shattered my IM dream. I mean the idiot one!

      Great post, benefited a lot from this post!

      I think I should learn some marketing basics first. Any recommendation for books?
      Scientific Advertising - by Claude C HOPKINS . Written in 1926 I think,yes everything Hopkins wrote, applies today. You should be able to download it for free online. Still a must read for anyone involved in I.M.

      Commonsense Direct & Digital Marketing- by Drayton Bird

      Dave
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  • Profile picture of the author Tracey_Meagher
    I came to this part of the forum because I'm about to get into CPA. This is the first post I read. I really don't think I need to know any more. Excellent post!

    Thank you
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  • Profile picture of the author dmail333
    SUPER POST Dave... you are soooo on point, you're so cool to give away such potent info. I wish you all the best.
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  • Profile picture of the author Midas3 Consulting
    Solid Dave. Good to see some more UK folks about.
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  • When the Guru speaks, you better listen. Thank you for the excellent insights and information.
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  • Profile picture of the author Vocalines
    Yes but this means that you are creating a list and doing the follow up... do you mean you are selling one product every 500 people in your list? Or 1 sale out of 500 clicks?
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    • Profile picture of the author Dave Ward
      Originally Posted by Vocalines View Post

      Yes but this means that you are creating a list and doing the follow up... do you mean you are selling one product every 500 people in your list? Or 1 sale out of 500 clicks?

      Vocaline,

      Yes, as I explained in the first post, I always create a list in the market. To explain the 1 in 500, I meant when I track the process - from click to landing page, to optin, to email list, to the first sale, one out of 500 who clicked through will buy. Repeat business from the list itself tends to be higher.

      It could be like this ( Just an example )

      500 clicks

      15% optin = 75 people onto list

      1 out of those 75 buys the product.

      Hope that makes it clearer

      Dave
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      • Profile picture of the author KevScarb
        Dave,

        So when you say to choose a market is PPC to Landing Page and then building a list what you suggest to anyone using Pay Per Click to sell a product ?

        Is that the method you teach you on your coaching ?
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        • Profile picture of the author Shakeel786
          AWESOME POST DAVE

          Excellent information...Thanks alot
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        • Profile picture of the author Dave Ward
          Originally Posted by KevScarb View Post

          Dave,

          So when you say to choose a market is PPC to Landing Page and then building a list what you suggest to anyone using Pay Per Click to sell a product ?
          Yes, it is, In my opinion if you are spending to get a visitor to your site, you should develop a system to capture as many as you can.

          Is that the method you teach you on your coaching ?
          I would not say I teach a "method" as such.
          What I teach in My One On One Coaching depends on the client, and what they need, but I would always advise them to focus on building a list. One On One coaching differs from a course, With One On One you focus on that clients marketplace, and the day to day problems they encounter, every client is different, so a module course does not work. So I don't say week 2 is building a squeeze page week. If somebody needs to know the theory and basics of Adwords, then there are already good books out there, they don't need me for that. My coaching in Adwords is like a Coach in sport, you work with your subject to improve their overall performance, but you focus on the biggest problem areas first. You may have a good tennis player, but he knows his back hand is weak. A tennis coach would obviously work on that. Adwords I may have a client who is getting clicks, but can't convert, it all just depends.

          Hope that answers your question.

          Dave
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          • Profile picture of the author KevScarb
            Originally Posted by Dave Ward View Post

            Yes, it is, In my opinion if you are spending to get a visitor to your site, you should develop a system to capture as many as you can.



            I would not say I teach a "method" as such.
            What I teach in My One On One Coaching depends on the client, and what they need, but I would always advise them to focus on building a list. One On One coaching differs from a course, With One On One you focus on that clients marketplace, and the day to day problems they encounter, every client is different, so a module course does not work. So I don't say week 2 is building a squeeze page week. If somebody needs to know the theory and basics of Adwords, then there are already good books out there, they don't need me for that. My coaching in Adwords is like a Coach in sport, you work with your subject to improve their overall performance, but you focus on the biggest problem areas first. You may have a good tennis player, but he knows his back hand is weak. A tennis coach would obviously work on that. Adwords I may have a client who is getting clicks, but can't convert, it all just depends.

            Hope that answers your question.

            Dave
            Hi Dave,

            Yes it does. Thank you. I'm loving this tread, so much valuable information here for me.
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            • Profile picture of the author ebuyer123
              Hi, Dave

              Thanks for the great post, man.

              May I know that how do you go around with the many CPA offers that are NOT permitted with the use of email marketing?

              Is to link your webpage/landing page from an email still be considered as direct email marketing?

              (e.g. Email ----> link to your webpage or landing page ----> link to Merchant's CPA page )

              Thanks.
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              • Profile picture of the author Dave Ward
                Originally Posted by ebuyer123 View Post

                Hi, Dave

                Thanks for the great post, man.

                May I know that how do you go around with the many CPA offers that are NOT permitted with the use of email marketing?

                Is to link your webpage/landing page from an email still be considered as direct email marketing?

                (e.g. Email ----> link to your webpage or landing page ----> link to Merchant's CPA page )

                Thanks.
                I think the email issue is more to stop email spam, no company wants you just emailing their offers to any email address that is not qualified, but if you send your email list to your own page first, I am not aware of anyone having a problem with that method.
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  • Profile picture of the author alpha249
    I think this goes for PPV too.........
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  • Profile picture of the author Chris Faraday
    Love this thread Dave, as I join in to share our consideration.

    Follow up, Follow through, Follow Forward with genuine care & concern -
    With an authentic voice of authority (master your market & really help people save time, money & live better)

    This is the future present of a sustainable business versus transactional quick kill which is getting harder and stops when you stop hustling the market.
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  • Profile picture of the author firefly11
    Dave, awesome post and responses.

    Do have a favorite way of choosing a market? For instance, using a kw tool to find higher volume, lower competition kws, then looking at the larger market? Or just pick a vertical and test?
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    • Profile picture of the author Dave Ward
      Originally Posted by firefly11 View Post

      Dave, awesome post and responses.

      Do have a favorite way of choosing a market? For instance, using a kw tool to find higher volume, lower competition kws, then looking at the larger market? Or just pick a vertical and test?

      I have a certain number of boxes I would like a market to tick, before I enter it.

      1st No matter what market I am going to enter, I will build a list, so first thing I look at is how easy would it be to do that.

      2nd If I am building a list, what products exist in the market that I could sell to the them ? I would prefer it if there were a number of different complimentary products I could offer.

      As an example, think about Internet Markeing.

      This is one reason the I.M market is profitable, I am an expert in PPC, but not in SEO, Copywriting, Article Writing or Web Design, but these are all complimentary services that have an interest to Internet Marketers.

      3rd Is there potential in the market to make repeat sales ?


      I will check the CPA networks to see what products are in the Vertical, I will also look at Clickbank to see what products are available and I will also check Amazon.com depending on the niche. Certainly if it was diet related I would use Amazon to check what is selling.

      Then I will start with keyword research.

      If I was looking to enter a new market, It would depend on the market how broad I would be. Again as an example, I would not choose weight loss, or fast weight loss from a PPC point of view, but I may choose Warrior Diet or Raw Food Diet as a starting point.

      My keyword work is then to determine if there is enough volume on the words that best fit the product or service I am looking to sell. Based on that information I will either move forward to test the market, or find a new one.

      One example of the right keyword as it would apply to me would be Adwords Consultant, or Adwords Coach, even Pay Per Click Management, but not simply pay per click which is a far higher volume term, but not as qualified.
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  • Profile picture of the author firefly11
    perfect...thx for explaining that. the idea of not going too broad or general makes a lot of sense.
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  • Profile picture of the author l23bc
    dave have to applud you too for such a great post you have made some good sense on ppc an CPA,
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  • Profile picture of the author sahanull
    well said. For the long term list is a MUST
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  • Profile picture of the author VoodooMethods
    Awesome post. Going in my archives and linking every question I get on the topic to this thread
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  • Profile picture of the author flashads
    Excellent post Dave thanks a lot
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    • Profile picture of the author l23bc
      forgot to say also thank you for the read dave
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  • Profile picture of the author GMBenson
    Dave
    Thanks for a great report. It seems quite the challenge to predict the market trends.

    But there is nothing like the old standbys of health/beauty and money problems.
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  • Profile picture of the author KevScarb
    Dave,

    What is your view on Clickbank ? I hear that even using a landing page is now a problem with Adwords traffic, if the landing page goes to clickbank, your quality score is affected.
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    • Profile picture of the author Marc Perriere
      Thanks so much Dave for taking the time to giving us fundamental marketing principles in order to explain one of the best approach to PPC 2 CPA. I really appreciate your generosity in sharing and also in the quality of your answers + your availability.

      Your replies are also definitely worth gold and also really help me understand that making money is one thing (CPA offers are often referred to as awsome "fast cash" oppotunity), but not doing it at any price, that is without any understanding of the market. I really like that! What I think is implied in your original post is that, we sometimes may be blinded by the lot of cash that may be made, however taking PPC to CPA as a real business does really seem much wiser to me than just going staright to Adwords and promoting the first CPA offer available out there...

      Your post really was helpful to me as well! Thank you again for giving personal and detailed examples on how to approach this specific type of marketing!
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      • Profile picture of the author aliciumcco
        Awesome Dave. One of the best posts in long time. Really usefull information. Thanks for sharing
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    • Profile picture of the author Dave Ward
      Originally Posted by KevScarb View Post

      Dave,

      What is your view on Clickbank ? I hear that even using a landing page is now a problem with Adwords traffic, if the landing page goes to clickbank, your quality score is affected.
      Kev,

      this may be true, but as I put in the O.P. I would always look to capture the customer first, so the clickbank link on the landing page would not be an issue in this case.

      Dave
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      • Profile picture of the author KevScarb
        Originally Posted by Dave Ward View Post

        Kev,

        this may be true, but as I put in the O.P. I would always look to capture the customer first, so the clickbank link on the landing page would not be an issue in this case.

        Dave
        Thanks Dave.. I get it, When buying traffic, try and capture their details first. Say it enough and I get there in the end
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        • Profile picture of the author Dave Ward
          Originally Posted by KevScarb View Post

          Thanks Dave.. I get it, When buying traffic, try and capture their details first. Say it enough and I get there in the end
          Lol You won't go far wrong using that tactic Kev.
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    • Profile picture of the author TalkSenseNow
      Hi Dave,

      Since it is a few months since you posted this case study, what is your current view on Google pay per click.

      It seems search is getting tougher, I seem to be seeing more about the content network and pay per view traffic.

      What are your views on the market now in Feb 2010 compared to Aug 2009?

      Would be great to get your thoughts on this.
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      • Profile picture of the author Dave Ward
        Originally Posted by TalkSenseNow View Post

        Hi Dave,

        Since it is a few months since you posted this case study, what is your current view on Google pay per click.

        It seems search is getting tougher, I seem to be seeing more about the content network and pay per view traffic.

        What are your views on the market now in Feb 2010 compared to Aug 2009?

        Would be great to get your thoughts on this.
        Hi there, that is a great question.

        Search continues to get more difficult as each month passes, both in terms of increased competition and because Google keep moving the goal posts. 2010 is going to see more competitors, and more restrictions from Google on those search spots. I am not talking about the 1000's of accounts that were banned here, just the fact that more and more people are trying to compete for those prime spots, and the little tricks that used to keep you ahead, Google are slapping down.

        To give you just one example,targeting competitors brands and domain names has always been a popular and effective method for internet marketers to generate leads or sales, but doing this on search today, usually lands you with a poor quality score and higher bid price. Not such a problem if you are Ford and you are targeting Toyota, but for the rest of us it makes it very difficult.

        With only 11 positions on that front page, I would agree that search marketing on google itself is becoming brutal, You need deep pockets, and also, if you don't have a list and a back end product or a very high priced front end product, the days of making money direct from ppc search in most market niches is just about done. In terms of the search page,this is of course exactly what Google wants. They want those spots taken by companies who are in a market for the long haul, and not just looking to make a quick buck in any market they can, promoting as many offers as they can. The longer you bid on those terms, the cheaper the clicks become, but making money right out of the gate is certainly unlikely in the vast majority of cases. In the ppc market today, you need to understand lifetime customer value and sales funnels more than ever.

        The content network for MOST markets is vastly underutilised. There are less quality score issues, there is more traffic, and if you have the right offer, is where you will make most money. Most traffic is not on search engines.

        The content network has always been a lucrative traffic source for those who understand it, and with the changes google made last summer when they launched the new adwords interface, it became an even more effective traffic source.

        So I think the reason you are seeing more about the content network is because there is less competition and the clicks are cheaper ( usually about 1/3rd of the cost of search depending on the market ) It is the perfect platform for lead generation marketing.

        Now onto CPV/PPV The actual term is Cost Per View, though on this forum, PPV seems to be buzz word for it.

        Cost per view traffic is a traffic source, just like anything else, and the same rules apply. I will actually write a post about this because it probably deserves one, but one thing people don't understand is traffic is traffic. If you don't know where it comes from,, or what it wants, you wont make money off it.

        First CPV traffic is not cheap traffic as I see so many people who clearly know nothing about traffic claim. You pay per view, and even if it was 1 cent per view, that is $10 CPM , and that is not cheap, I can buy traffic all day long on adbuyer at $2 CPM People who tell you it is cheap traffic do not understand traffic metrics.

        Can CPV traffic make you money ? yes of course, but only using the same process as you would to convert banner traffic, or PPC search traffic or google content network traffic. You need to know who your customer is for the offer you are selling. But with CPV traffic you also need to understand who the users of the software are. Do you know who the users of Traffic Vance and Media Traffic are ?

        Like any traffic source, CPV when used correctly can be very effective, but also just like any traffic source, if you don't know what your are doing, you will get burned.

        As I say, this was a great question, and I will do a post about CPV traffic to answer in more detail than this thread, but if you have anything specific, you can send me a pm.
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        • Profile picture of the author treven
          Dave,thank you very much for sharing all of this precius stuff.I am looking forward to read more and more posts by you.
          Thanks again!

          Plamen
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    • Profile picture of the author cashdreamer
      i join the forum today, tks for you great post.
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  • Profile picture of the author Thumoney
    It was mentioned more than once that building an email list in your market is an improvement over just direct PPC -> CPA.

    I like to bring up one thing here. Many of the most popular CPA offers get a lot of user complaints mostly due to nontransparent re-billing, other offers produce email spam or financial offers even worse.

    I think if you get into a relationship with users via a list, you have to make sure that these users will be happy in the end. Otherwise you are back to the one-time sale, because a really unhappy user will opt-out faster than you can refresh your stats.

    So this leaves you to promote only very legit, non-rebilling CPA offers to your list. This rules out many of the popular health, financial etc. offers on the CPA networks.

    Or you get so transparent with the rebilling option, that many users on your list will avoid this offer.

    Either way, it looks like building a long-term, happy-subscriber list within the current CPA landscape is very difficult.

    What are your opinions on that?
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    • Profile picture of the author dropship
      Originally Posted by Thumoney View Post

      It was mentioned more than once that building an email list in your market is an improvement over just direct PPC -> CPA.

      I like to bring up one thing here. Many of the most popular CPA offers get a lot of user complains mostly due to nontransparent re-billing, other offers produce email spam or financial offers even worse.

      I think if you get into a relationship with users via a list, you have to make sure that these users will be happy in the end. Otherwise you are back to the one-time sale, because a really unhappy user will opt-out faster than you can refresh your stats.

      So this leaves you to promote only very legit, non-rebilling CPA offers to your list. This rules out many of the popular health, financial etc. offers on the CPA networks.

      Or you get so transparent with the rebilling option, that many users on your list will avoid this offer.

      Either way, it looks like building a long-term, happy-subscriber list within the current CPA landscape is very difficult.

      What are your opinions on that?

      You're absolutely right about that. Your list will dwindle away to nothing if you keep promoting rebill products.

      With that being said there are pelnty of other offers you can promote. For one of my niches, I have a total of 10 autoresponders of CPA offers that aren't rebills which convert and I still have a large list at the end of each day.
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    • Profile picture of the author Dave Ward
      Hi Thumoney, Great points you make, here is my view..

      I like to bring up one thing here. Many of the most popular CPA offers get a lot of user complains mostly due to nontransparent re-billing, other offers produce email spam or financial offers even worse.
      Agreed

      I think if you get into a relationship with users via a list, you have to make sure that these users will be happy in the end. Otherwise you are back to the one-time sale, because a really unhappy user will opt-out faster than you can refresh your stats.
      Again I agree, so my advice to anyone is think about this long term, and that should also help you decide the type of products you will promote
      So this leaves you to promote only very legit, non-rebilling CPA offers to your list. This rules out many of the popular health, financial etc. offers on the CPA networks.
      Putting the rebill issue aside, because that could be a thread all on its own !. Even if as you say this is all it left you with, I can assure you it is more than enough to make money with. One of my inner circle clients , is doing over $150,000 per month in commissions, and none of it is from rebill products. Popular does not always mean the best . As I put in my original post " stop following the pack ".

      Either way, it looks like building a long-term, happy-subscriber list within the current CPA landscape is very difficult.
      Absolutely Not

      Consistent performing offers in cpa have been around for years. The constant theme is they have always been offers that offer a solution to a common problem, offers that are free, offers that deal with dating , education, finding reliable tradesmen, refinancing, insurance, auto quotes , 2 for one restaurant meals etc, there is so much more out there than diet pills, and skin creams.

      As dropship mentions in his post above, you can do just fine without the rebills.

      Dave

      @ Marc Perrière - Thanks for the kind words, I appreciate it , and I am glad it is of help to you.

      @ Kevin, I will reply to your Clickbank question later, but I have just broke my no Internet on a Sunday rule while my wife went shopping , so this is it for now .
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  • Profile picture of the author Thumoney
    Alright, good answers. To sum up the point that I really wanted to make, and I find you also supported it: long-term email marketing with rebill offers (those non-transparent ones) is not the way to go. It works with CPA with more legit offers!?
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    • Profile picture of the author Dave Ward
      Originally Posted by Thumoney View Post

      Alright, good answers. To sum up the point that I really wanted to make, and I find you also supported it: long-term email marketing with rebill offers (those non-transparent ones) is not the way to go. It works with CPA with more legit offers!?
      Yes , I would agree you can't build a long term business using non transparent rebill offers. Fortunately there are plenty of alternatives.
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  • Profile picture of the author didiert
    Awesome Dave.

    One of the best posts in long time.

    Really usefull information.


    Thanks for sharing
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    • Profile picture of the author Dave Ward
      Originally Posted by didiert View Post

      Awesome Dave.

      One of the best posts in long time.

      Really usefull information.


      Thanks for sharing
      Thanks Didiert , glad it helped.

      @ Honest Biz Pro, So true - don't build on sand.
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      • Profile picture of the author Sipboy3000
        Dave,

        WOW! That was a killer post.

        Picking the right markets is the single most important factor that took me from losing money to making money with PPC.

        I missed out on the list building component in the beginning because the money was so good and everything was pretty much autopilot.

        Then I realized how much money I was leaving on the table by not capturing the market so I have since changed my business model.

        Thanks
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  • Profile picture of the author breakdance
    Originally Posted by honestbizpro View Post


    Either way..if you choose markets that are not so disposable like the here today gone tommorow typical rebill madness you will enjoy better conversions and for longer periods.
    Yes Indeed Mr. HBZ, picking *long-term* offers is KEY, especially if you want to market CPA-offers in the long-run...!
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  • Profile picture of the author tonybhachu
    Hi Dave,
    Great post my friend!
    This is some of the best info I've read on PPC in a long time.
    Thanks,
    Tony
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  • Profile picture of the author st0rm
    I think i have read the info in this post about four times now, some great stuff here but rereading it make it sink in so much... thanks again Dave

    Can i ask what your feelings are towards the cost of PPC and the budget that I would have to invest daily to make a successful ROI? would I be better spreading the bugget say $10 a day accross a few CPA offers of just focus on one. I am only saying $10 as a sample i could go more but dont want to over spend..

    Any help would be great..!
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    • Profile picture of the author Dave Ward
      Originally Posted by st0rm View Post

      I think i have read the info in this post about four times now, some great stuff here but rereading it make it sink in so much... thanks again Dave

      Can i ask what your feelings are towards the cost of PPC and the budget that I would have to invest daily to make a successful ROI? would I be better spreading the bugget say $10 a day accross a few CPA offers of just focus on one. I am only saying $10 as a sample i could go more but dont want to over spend..

      Any help would be great..!
      Hi,

      first sorry for late reply, has been a busy week.

      My advice, and the same as I tell my coaching students is first focus on one keyword theme and one product.

      So I would not advise spending the $10 on a few CPA offers. I would suggest you focus on one. So one landing page to try and capture the customer to send to that offer. Focus on the keywords that are most relevant to that offer, and work to convert that traffic. Of course if you have the customer details, you can then send to other offers if they are related.

      Dave
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  • Profile picture of the author TimAbbott
    perfect post!!

    Thanks ,it's very helpful for me
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  • Profile picture of the author pauljeaston
    Great information. Thank you for the enlightenment. This is certainly true for those people running and chasing their tails.
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  • Profile picture of the author folkcare
    Well done Dave,

    It really IS the list - I wish I could just implement that and stop chasing the easy methods. Maybe tomorrow I will - well done. Maybe we're all afraid of writing auto-responder follow ups.
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  • Profile picture of the author JonathanBoettcher
    Some of the best advice I've seen on this forum for a while now. Thanks very much Dave! I think that gets at the heart of my problem...
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  • Profile picture of the author RicksterUK
    Dave,

    I would also like to say congratulations on an outstanding post. Like many others who have commented on this thread, I have to agree it is one of the best posts I have read in a long, long time. It makes even more sense with the recent google changes and their clear dislike of affiliates to follow the methods you have explained here.
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  • Profile picture of the author senny168
    Can someone please explain to me what CPA stands for and what it is? Same for CPV. Thanks! Senny.
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    • Profile picture of the author KevScarb
      Originally Posted by senny168 View Post

      Can someone please explain to me what CPA stands for and what it is? Same for CPV. Thanks! Senny.
      Senny, CPA stands for Cost Per Action , in our case it refers to getting paid for the customer going through a certain process, either buying a product, or filling out a form with information.

      CPV is Cost Per View.
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  • Profile picture of the author Fox30
    Dave,

    That is probably one of the best write ups I've ever seen not just for CPA & PPC, but for running a business in general. One of my first major mistakes starting out in CPA, as many newbies do, is choosing the CPA offer that was going to pay me the most before analyzing the market(competition and demand). Needless to say, I didn't make any money with this approach.

    It is one of the main things I changed before making my first dollar in IM.

    -Fox
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    • Profile picture of the author Kenster
      Originally Posted by Fox30 View Post

      Dave,

      That is probably one of the best write ups I've ever seen not just for CPA & PPC, but for running a business in general. One of my first major mistakes starting out in CPA, as many newbies do, is choosing the CPA offer that was going to pay me the most before analyzing the market(competition and demand). Needless to say, I didn't make any money with this approach.

      It is one of the main things I changed before making my first dollar in IM.

      -Fox



      Same here. I eventually learned a few things. First, who cares about payout. Conversion rates differ dramatically between seemingly similar offers so dont just focus on a high paying offer because who gives if it isnt converting. Look at your margins!

      Also, traffic is the hard thing to find, not offers. Matching traffic to offer is critical, so instead of finding a good offer and finding good targeted traffic which is already hard in itself, why not focus a little more on locating a good traffic source and then monetizing it with an offer that fits the traffic.

      Of course this doesnt always work and sometimes you will know (ie from your AM) that an offer is great, so you do the reverse, start with the offer and then find traffic.

      Its an art as much as a science
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  • Profile picture of the author smam
    Whats the best way to build your list. Whats works best or is more likely to entice someone to signup more. eBooks, free gifts, tips, discounts, sample of pages?

    Regards
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  • Profile picture of the author Kenster
    Doesnt matter what it is, just make it enticing. If you are doing email submits, you can offer discounts and offer offers on aqueeze page or if you are doing a niche looking for information (like IM niche) then you will want to offer free informationlike through an ebook. If you are doing gaming niche, will want to giev tips.

    So it all really depends on the audience and each of the types you listed can be used effectivty to build a large list.
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  • Profile picture of the author bioshift
    Great Post Dave! Thanks for the insights!
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  • Profile picture of the author Tonio Smith
    I agree with you 100% when dealing with PPC you must target the market not market the target. In the CPA game things can get a little daunting when dealing with PPC but find someone that can help you one on one and you won't be upset you did.
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    • Profile picture of the author jdem02
      Great post. I am actually using some of this for my business... thanks alot.. with all this helpful info you should be able to start a decent business if you work hard at it.
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  • Profile picture of the author bravo75
    I bet there are a good few that are thinking "screw that", it sounds to much like hard work.
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    • Profile picture of the author FredFarnes
      Originally Posted by bravo75 View Post

      I bet there are a good few that are thinking "screw that", it sounds to much like hard work.
      Hehe, and that's a really good thing!
      Signature

      So, you want to sell me another way to easily make "X" dollars in "X" days? ROFL too funny! IM success requires hard work and lots of time. Most newbies do not survive the steep learning curve. Anyone who says otherwise is probably selling you a fantasy.

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  • Profile picture of the author ecrisc45
    whow that is very good information, I think I've looking for this kind of Info.
    This will help me as a newbie a lot.
    Thanks Dave, awesome.
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  • Profile picture of the author macchiavelli
    "YOU CANT COMPETE WITH IDIOTS"

    Is so true!
    Idiots ruin markets, idiots copy campaigns, idiots drive cpcs trough the roooofffff!!!

    I make most of my money promoting FOREX trading bots and I never EVER bid on terms like FOREX or TRADING BOT....I look at the bigger picture.
    FOREX marketers are most likely men who are a bit older and love money, find out where they hang out(online) and promote to them via ppc, email, cpv etc

    Making money aint rocket science, once things click...its over.
    Ive been in the game 4 years now, since I was 16, im 20 now and it finally clicked for me!
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  • Profile picture of the author TalkSenseNow
    Hi Dave,

    Great information. Much appreciated. I'm just about to spend my first $200 on Media Traffic so wish me luck. Thanks again for your help.
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  • Profile picture of the author TalkSenseNow
    Hi again Dave,

    Sorry to bother you again. I'm struggling with Google's content network as usual for one of my campaigns and I'm wondering If you think its better to go for text or image ads?

    You'll probably say test, test and test but is there any evidence as to what works better in your experience. Are image ads more expensive generally than text ads because of the additional space they take up?

    Also ( last question I promise) which image ad size is the most popular?

    Thanks in advance :-)
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    • Profile picture of the author JonathanBoettcher
      Originally Posted by TalkSenseNow View Post

      Hi again Dave,

      Sorry to bother you again. I'm struggling with Google's content network as usual for one of my campaigns and I'm wondering If you think its better to go for text or image ads?

      You'll probably say test, test and test but is there any evidence as to what works better in your experience. Are image ads more expensive generally than text ads because of the additional space they take up?

      Also ( last question I promise) which image ad size is the most popular?

      Thanks in advance :-)
      Personally I'm getting great results currently with image ads. In many cases, clicks are as low as 9 cents apiece now (didn't start there though, started much higher). Conversely, text ads in my market are running me more like 25-30 cents a click.

      Yes, you need to test, test, test, because all of this stuff will vary from market to market. However, in general I'd say it is worthwhile testing image ads against your text ads. Use your text ads as a control, so you know if things are better on a particular side of the fence.

      Regarding sizes, again, this will be somewhat market (even site) specific. There's one site that does very well for me, and the 300x250 banner does well there. However, other sites favor the 728 header style banners. It is going to depend on what banner sizes the sites in your niche are using.

      Get a feel for the top few sites in your niche, then look around those sites and see what banner sizes they're using. In the end, you'll probably need to make variants of each to test them .

      Sounds kind of like work to me .
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      • Profile picture of the author TalkSenseNow
        Originally Posted by JonathanBoettcher View Post

        Personally I'm getting great results currently with image ads. In many cases, clicks are as low as 9 cents apiece now (didn't start there though, started much higher). Conversely, text ads in my market are running me more like 25-30 cents a click.

        Yes, you need to test, test, test, because all of this stuff will vary from market to market. However, in general I'd say it is worthwhile testing image ads against your text ads. Use your text ads as a control, so you know if things are better on a particular side of the fence.

        Regarding sizes, again, this will be somewhat market (even site) specific. There's one site that does very well for me, and the 300x250 banner does well there. However, other sites favor the 728 header style banners. It is going to depend on what banner sizes the sites in your niche are using.

        Get a feel for the top few sites in your niche, then look around those sites and see what banner sizes they're using. In the end, you'll probably need to make variants of each to test them .

        Sounds kind of like work to me .
        Thanks Jonathan .. Much appreciated and very helpful. Will update you on my progress :-) Cheers again.
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    • Profile picture of the author Dave Ward
      Originally Posted by TalkSenseNow View Post

      Hi again Dave,

      Sorry to bother you again. I'm struggling with Google's content network as usual for one of my campaigns and I'm wondering If you think its better to go for text or image ads?

      You'll probably say test, test and test but is there any evidence as to what works better in your experience. Are image ads more expensive generally than text ads because of the additional space they take up?

      Also ( last question I promise) which image ad size is the most popular?

      Thanks in advance :-)
      What Jonathan Said , and test, test , test
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  • Profile picture of the author TalkSenseNow
    Hey again Dave,

    I've set up my campaigns on Media Traffic now but seem to be really struggling. I know its still perhaps early days but any suggestions?

    Cheers in advance.

    TalkSenseNow
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    • Profile picture of the author Dave Ward
      Originally Posted by TalkSenseNow View Post

      Hey again Dave,

      I've set up my campaigns on Media Traffic now but seem to be really struggling. I know its still perhaps early days but any suggestions?

      Cheers in advance.

      TalkSenseNow

      You need to understand that networks users and match offers to them. In truth that is the same for any traffic. But as you asked, my suggestion is to buy this http://www.warriorforum.com/warrior-...marketing.html

      I may be biased But It will stop you wasting money if you don't know what your doing with PPV . CPV traffic
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  • Profile picture of the author Jag82
    Bravo Dave. Bravo.

    Target the right market. Build the list. Create a long term sustainable business.

    You got it all nailed. Head on!

    Thanks for this spectacular post. Awesome!

    - Jag
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  • Profile picture of the author ocd
    Thanks Dave. That was an excellent post!
    Signature
    The link of great joy and happiness...but this one? This is the one that all window cleaning companies in the free world are inspired by. Hey, where did the sarcasm font go?
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  • Profile picture of the author faceblogger
    Wonderful and very very valuable. It's the most useful post I read during last six months!
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    no sig

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  • Profile picture of the author John Wood
    Dave, I have to say this was an excellent post.

    Once you know what your ROI is on a email sales funnel you can even turn around and put your own offer on a good CPA network or two and pay the dollar or two per submit to really give your list a boost.
    Signature
    SublimeSEO.net - SEO services you can count on including our incredible SERP Ignition Package. Massive link diversity for one great price.
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  • Profile picture of the author Affiliatebuddy
    An Excellent Report.. in easier way. Newbies are still looking for some guide which they can follow in steps and must be endorsed by some real marketers to boost their confidence.

    Ab
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    Web Design Leads Exclusive/Daily/100+ . Free Test. PM or Skype: premiumwebdesignleads
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  • Profile picture of the author ukJoe
    Wow, what an awesome thread and post for someone like me who is just starting.

    Dave, I was always told, if you don't ask, then you don't get, so please let me ask. With your years of experience doing this, what would you advise someone like me who is new to internet marketing to do. I start University in September, I don't have the money yet for ppc, but I do have plenty of time.
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    • Profile picture of the author bigbrian
      Dave,

      Just want to say my hat is off to you for posting that! It's a very inspirational and informative post. It's very nice of you to take your time to writeup all that information and share it with the community.

      It's people like you that make this place a good source of information and worth visiting. Nice job and thanks for sharing your knowledge!

      Brian
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      • Profile picture of the author Dave Ward
        Originally Posted by bigbrian View Post

        Dave,

        Just want to say my hat is off to you for posting that! It's a very inspirational and informative post. It's very nice of you to take your time to writeup all that information and share it with the community.

        It's people like you that make this place a good source of information and worth visiting. Nice job and thanks for sharing your knowledge!

        Brian
        Hi Brian,

        thanks very much for the compliment. Glad it was of use.
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    • Profile picture of the author Dave Ward
      Originally Posted by ukJoe View Post

      Wow, what an awesome thread and post for someone like me who is just starting.

      Dave, I was always told, if you don't ask, then you don't get, so please let me ask. With your years of experience doing this, what would you advise someone like me who is new to internet marketing to do. I start University in September, I don't have the money yet for ppc, but I do have plenty of time.
      As you have time on your side, then I would use it to learn everything you can about keyword research. Choosing the wrong keywords are the main reason people fail.

      They fail right out of the gate, and don't even know it.

      Do not be scared off by a market with competition. If it has competition it is because there is money there. As you have time, you can research a market thoroughly and then start to position yourself in it.

      The main thing to do then is get yourself some cheap hosting, and then create yourself a wordpress blog on your own keyword rich domain and start to write content. Then write more content that you distribute to other sites, linking back your blog with your keyword anchor text. Start to build backlinks to your targeted keywords over time.

      None of what i am saying here is new, but it works, even though most people don't want to do it.

      Keep a realistic expectation of when this will pay off. In most cases you are looking at over 4 months depending on what your are targeting. Don't think when, after a month you see no results that you have failed. Unless you are buying traffic , results inside a month are not normal, no matter what people on here will try and tell you.

      Most people fail at internet marketing because they don't stick at any one thing long enough. They think there must be a quicker, easier way, but the truth is, there isn't. If you know the keywords you chose are good, and that you can rank for them over time, you will make money from I.M.

      You can get details of my free internet marketing course by clicking on the link in my sig, but otherwise I hope this helps.

      Dave
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      • Profile picture of the author ukJoe
        Originally Posted by Dave Ward View Post

        As you have time on your side, then I would use it to learn everything you can about keyword research. Choosing the wrong keywords are the main reason people fail.

        They fail right out of the gate, and don't even know it.

        Do not be scared off by a market with competition. If it has competition it is because there is money there. As you have time, you can research a market thoroughly and then start to position yourself in it.

        The main thing to do then is get yourself some cheap hosting, and then create yourself a wordpress blog on your own keyword rich domain and start to write content. Then write more content that you distribute to other sites, linking back your blog with your keyword anchor text. Start to build backlinks to your targeted keywords over time.

        None of what i am saying here is new, but it works, even though most people don't want to do it.

        Keep a realistic expectation of when this will pay off. In most cases you are looking at over 4 months depending on what your are targeting. Don't think when, after a month you see no results that you have failed. Unless you are buying traffic , results inside a month are not normal, no matter what people on here will try and tell you.

        Most people fail at internet marketing because they don't stick at any one thing long enough. They think there must be a quicker, easier way, but the truth is, there isn't. If you know the keywords you chose are good, and that you can rank for them over time, you will make money from I.M.

        You can get details of my free internet marketing course by clicking on the link in my sig, but otherwise I hope this helps.

        Dave
        Thanks for the reply Dave. I had started with article marketing, so will just keep at it. I have my hosting and my domain, so will keep turning out the content. Good to know that you feel I am on the right track.
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        • Profile picture of the author Dave Ward
          Originally Posted by ukJoe View Post

          Thanks for the reply Dave. I had started with article marketing, so will just keep at it. I have my hosting and my domain, so will keep turning out the content. Good to know that you feel I am on the right track.
          Great. If you can afford to get your aweber account too, that will help you start building that list. They do offer a 30 day trial for $1. That list will get you through college.
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          • Profile picture of the author David Neale
            Mailchimp has an autoresponder as well and is free for first 500 subscribers and 3000 emails per month.

            Excellent program. Good reputation.

            Originally Posted by Dave Ward View Post

            Great. If you can afford to get your aweber account too, that will help you start building that list. They do offer a 30 day trial for $1. That list will get you through college.
            Signature

            David Neale

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            • Profile picture of the author David Neale
              David I signed up at several of your sites but never heard anything.

              Do you still do CPA coaching?
              Signature

              David Neale

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              • Profile picture of the author Dave Ward
                Originally Posted by David Neale View Post

                David I signed up at several of your sites but never heard anything.

                Do you still do CPA coaching?

                Hi David,

                I actually replied to you at the end of August ( Tuesday 31st), so don't know why you didn't get it. Anyway I just resent, so check your email box, maybe it's going to the spam folder ?

                Regards

                Dave
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            • Profile picture of the author ukJoe
              Originally Posted by David Neale View Post

              Mailchimp has an autoresponder as well and is free for first 500 subscribers and 3000 emails per month.

              Excellent program. Good reputation.
              Thanks David,

              I was looking at using feeburner for a free subscriber option, but will give Mailchimp a go.

              @ Dave, I like the look of Aweber, but right now , even with the $1 for a month trial, I want to try and build some subscribers first.

              For me right now, that $19.95 can be put to work better.
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              • Profile picture of the author Barry Unruh
                Originally Posted by ukJoe View Post

                Thanks David,

                I was looking at using feeburner for a free subscriber option, but will give Mailchimp a go.

                @ Dave, I like the look of Aweber, but right now , even with the $1 for a month trial, I want to try and build some subscribers first.

                For me right now, that $19.95 can be put to work better.

                There is only one big problem with starting with MailChimp. When you are ready to be a professional you will have to export the list, import to Aweber, GetResponse, IMNicamail, or another quality service and lose a large percentage of your subscribers. This requires a new confirmation email, and getting them to click again.

                I'd recommend you take a second look. If money is tight look at IMNicaMail for another warrior. Richelo has a great Warrior special price if you track him down, with a longer trial period.
                Signature
                Brain Drained...Signature Coming Soon!
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          • Profile picture of the author ukJoe
            Originally Posted by Dave Ward View Post

            Great. If you can afford to get your aweber account too, that will help you start building that list. They do offer a 30 day trial for $1. That list will get you through college.

            Hey Dave,

            just wanted to say thanks for the help and advice you have given me in the last year. I am following the plan you did for me and steadily each month I am making more. June was my best month at over $1500. I am back from college for the summer, so have more time to build. Thanks again. Seems you are right about that list getting me through college !
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      • Profile picture of the author Astron
        Originally Posted by Dave Ward View Post

        As you have time on your side, then I would use it to learn everything you can about keyword research. Choosing the wrong keywords are the main reason people fail.

        They fail right out of the gate, and don't even know it.
        Hi Dave!

        If you don`t mind, could you show some useful sources about learning keyword research? I was researching on internet, but I could only find the basic stuff everywhere, what everyone knows...I would really learn some advanced techniques, how the experts are doing this, I would check out some real life examples, case studies, etc..

        P.S.
        I know this thread is a bit old, but your great infos are timeless, so it`s doesn`t matter
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        • Profile picture of the author about2flip
          Great Post Dave!!!

          Unfortunately I can not get my head wrapped on how to create an attractive landing page, capture the email, and then forward the user to the CPA offer. Should I be creating a mini-site with articles related to the niche/cpa offer, and then offer a free ebook, again related to that niche/cpa offer? After they hit submit, do I push them to the CPA offer?

          If I can just see some examples on how I.M's are doing this it will be helpful.

          Second, I'm studying CPA Courses, and none of them tell me how I can hide the link to CPA offer or make the CPA offer look as if it from my website, instead of the link they provide. (I hope that makes sense) Is that cool that you show the link that is provided from the CPA Network? Is there anyway to camouflage the link?

          Thanks for help and advice.
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  • Profile picture of the author iharry
    The principles on this post will become the foundation of ALL my online ventures, CPA or non CPA.
    Thank you for the AWESOME value you provided and all the best to you!
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  • Profile picture of the author Mfoninyang
    Hi,

    This is a great revelation. An eyes opener.

    Thank you so very much

    Mfon Inyang
    Signature

    STILL STRUGGLING TO MAKE MONEY ONLINE?
    Here's How To Generate Real Cash With NO Experience,
    Product, List Or Even A Website - See Video For Proof!
    http://tinyurl.com/36kzw6f

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  • Profile picture of the author Your Lover
    that was a real helpful free tips, I think any one wants to use PPC should read this post first.
    thank u Dave
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  • Profile picture of the author Firstrate
    This is a really useful thread packed with value!

    Thank you so much for sharing...
    Signature

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  • Profile picture of the author brunski57
    Now that is real "business thinking" vs "tactic" thinking.
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  • Profile picture of the author tdj
    That's one hell of a post Dave. You are obviously one of the "smart" PPC guys. Knowing your market well enables you to find lower priced keywords to bid on but yet sell them what they wanted in the first place. Is PPC the only way you build your list Dave? Thanks Dave.

    Todd
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    • Profile picture of the author Dave Ward
      Originally Posted by tdj View Post

      That's one hell of a post Dave. You are obviously one of the "smart" PPC guys. Knowing your market well enables you to find lower priced keywords to bid on but yet sell them what they wanted in the first place. Is PPC the only way you build your list Dave? Thanks Dave.

      Todd
      Hi Todd,

      No PPC is one way, but it certainly is not the only way. You can build a list using any traffic source. No matter what method you use to get visitors to your website, you can always look to get them on a list first, sadly most people don't do this.
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  • Profile picture of the author poojagoyal
    what a great thread , thank you Dave
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  • Profile picture of the author cpacall2
    Great post. I saved in my hard drive. thanks for sharing your insight.
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    • Profile picture of the author tapiatom
      I have been reading all the information in this thread and I have a question. Given that it's been taught in several online courses to look for a microniche and then dominate it, being a marketer with limted resources how can you tap into a market in order to build a list to find responsive cutomers for several offers as suggested here? I ask because there would be a fierce competition if you choose a market instead of a microniche, and for beginners it would be next to impossible to compete against the big fish in a determined vertical. What I mean is if I the plan is using different sources of traffic including PPC, how can you build a list without getting defeated by the big players? Can the search for a microniche still be applicable?
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      • Profile picture of the author Dave Ward
        Originally Posted by tapiatom View Post

        I have been reading all the information in this thread and I have a question. Given that it's been taught in several online courses to look for a microniche and then dominate it, being a marketer with limted resources how can you tap into a market in order to build a list to find responsive cutomers for several offers as suggested here? I ask because there would be a fierce competition if you choose a market instead of a microniche, and for beginners it would be next to impossible to compete against the big fish in a determined vertical. What I mean is if I the plan is using different sources of traffic including PPC, how can you build a list without getting defeated by the big players? Can the search for a microniche still be applicable?
        Even when you choose a microniche, you still have to choose a market first.

        So if you decide on weight loss, then you to find a micro niche where you can compete.

        A microniche in the weight loss/ health market for example could be raw foods, or The Paleo diet. There would still be different offers you could send to those niches. The process of building a list , even in a microniche is the same. You still have to research the market and get an understanding of it. Know the keywords that apply to the microniche and focus on those.
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        • Profile picture of the author tapiatom
          Originally Posted by Dave Ward View Post

          Even when you choose a microniche, you still have to choose a market first.

          So if you decide on weight loss, then you to find a micro niche where you can compete.

          A microniche in the weight loss/ health market for example could be raw foods, or The Paleo diet. There would still be different offers you could send to those niches. The process of building a list , even in a microniche is the same. You still have to research the market and get an understanding of it. Know the keywords that apply to the microniche and focus on those.
          Thank you very much!!
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  • Profile picture of the author joint415
    Very well written post and right to the point. Thank you
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  • Profile picture of the author AskiKaOwnzYou
    Further advice for "poorer people who need a start but do not use adwords, however want to learn adwords when they are in a financial position to do so (this is how you can get there).

    Dave, My name is David also and I also started online in 1996, however failed to see the big $$$ available, so I worked for some years and only around 2000 I got serious about online marketing.

    The market has changed, however I will notify the general wf community that "organic and seo" must never be ignored.

    I think I need to elaborate slightly on your advice.

    1. If you use adwords combined with either ppc (or better BANNER PLACEMENTS), your "sales-copy (aka opt-in page) or redirect page, must be HIGHLY PROFESSIONAL LOOKING to get major results.

    IT IS NOT UN-COMMON FOR A PROFESSIONAL WEBMASTER TO SPEND SEVERAL DAYS/WEEKS FINE TUNING A "PERFECT" SALES COPY/OPT-IN PAGE AND SETTING UP THE AUTO RESPONDERS (CONSIDER AWEBER).

    We regard it "as a job" because we have seen the HIGH PROFITS it can yield and as such, we know that spending several WEEKS to create a "website of magnificence" is going to pay off at $100,000 per year... Wanna make a $100,000 within three months?

    Well take three months to fine-tune a perfect sales copy and for the next few years, you get automated $100,000 in your pocket each year (FOR DOING ABSOLUTELY NOTHING THEREAFTER).

    IT IS GENUINELY THAT SIMPLE - YET IN DEPTH AND "HARD" FOR BEGINNERS TO WRITE A CORRECTLY FORMATTED AND PERFECT SALES COPY.

    For this reason I recommend you hire a professional, pay them $1,500, (With a psych background) to get the first few sales copy "correctly established".

    2. Secondly, My organic search results for my extensive library of website has surpassed any PPC I can achieve.

    If I was to spend $15,000 daily, it still would not compete with my websites - I do not even bother for opt-in list.

    Let me tell you what my strategy was (in the start):

    1. 1 Website makes me $0.01 per year, so If I make 1000 websites then I get $10.00 per year (YEY!).

    2. When I get good (which I did) - 1 BASIC Micro-site makes me $20+ per year multiplied by 1,000 websites (in most niches), makes me $20,000+ per year (Adsense alone - and it is actually alot more, most websites make over $100 per year with ease - I am talking three pager sites...).

    3. Now that I have my network of "failing $100 profit per year websites" I can develop them...

    4. Within four years of constant development (myself only) - I achieve then around $1,000+++ per site (Including CPA, etc).

    Let's do the math $20,000+ a zero = $200,000 - YEE HAW, RETIREMENT TIME...

    5. Here is the twist however... After a bit of page-load optimisation and perhaps another year or so (on the five-ten year mark) - THEN WEBSITES MYSTERIOUSLY ALMOST TRIPPLE IN PROFITS...

    Yee Haw, $600,000 per year!!! whipp-dee-doo-da!

    6. After some Several years of UTTER TORTURE (physical, mental affects take a toll) I was able to surpass the first million per year mark...

    AND NOW THAT I LOOK BACK ON MY WORK - IT WAS "F-ING EASY" WORK FOR SEVERAL YEARS TO (FOR THE REST OF MY LIFE AND MY GENERATIONS TO COME) - MOST POSSIBLEY NEVER HAVE TO WORK ANOTHER DAY IN ANY OF THEIR LIVES.

    YES, It is that easy...

    Create a new niche per week:

    My advice:

    1. Joomla
    2. Google Adsense (MINUS AFFILIATE OR CPA/CPS OFFERS)
    3. Once that "Micro (3 page, 4 - 10 hour to make website) makes double it's money, THEN...
    4. Buy another domain of a descriptive keyword/s (ANY - DON'T REALLY MATTER BECAUSE ADSENSE(ETC) WILL TELL YOU HOW THE MARKET IS AND THE PREVIOUS DOMAIN YOU MADE IS SUPPORTING THIS ONE - SO YOU ONLY LOOSE 4-10 HOURS CREATING THE DOMAIN) - CHICKEN FEED...

    5. Soon patterns will arise - the less time initially you spend on "research" and the more time you spend on development, regardless of market, the better the results shall be. Instead of spending TWO YEARS TO LEARN WHAT WE PROS KNOW. SIMPLY "WING IT".

    Two years spent researching/buying info-rip-off-products without money, is two years lost - "joomla" has EVERYTHING YOU NEED TO DOMINATE TOP PAGE SERPS. Some extensions of note are "easy adsense, joomla-watch and joomsef" (Get template [FREE] from themza or "look around for free templates for joomla 1.5/6/7/8/ etc").

    Find the CHEAPEST CRAPPIEST host you can find (that hosts joomla) that has atleast 50gb of hard disk space and over 100 domains for starters (+ php 4/5 and 6 when/if it comes out).

    6. Over the next year or two, only do that hosting account, spam micro-sites, if you go to wikipedia.org, copy articles, spend half an hour editing each article, then upload (it must be VERY UNIQUE and without footprint of Wikipedia - also ensure you "add your twist" so you are not illegally copying it as this is wrong and WILL get you into trouble (not that this has ever occurred with me).

    7. Now you have your content, you have joomla micro-sites and with extension (for joomla) "easy adsense", you have monetization.

    8. NOTE: GOOGLE "SLAPS" your website out of it's rankings if it detects clickbank or any other "non-reputable" cpa offer on your page, make no mistake, most clickbank offers are from RIP-OFF MERCHANTS (however the fact most people do not know the stuff they pay for is typically of "inferior value") and the incorrect assumtpion or lack of knowledge of how to go about receiving a refund (after purchasing the product) plays on their mind and most think they are not "beggars" and should not "steep so low" as to ask for a refund from something they purchased.

    This powerful psychology is what makes "clickbank work" however google, etc (on the side of good and not evil) do understand that clickbank is EVIL and so are others like cxpinteractive, etc. So do check out the affiliate programs you offer and keep in mind the "opt-in" lists that David was reffering to is the best way to ensure google, etc does not slap your site...

    If your site is legitimate in google's eyes (so no affiliate offers on it) and you use your "opt-in" list to spam-vertise cpa offers, you should be fine.

    9. Micro-site creation is how I started my empire. Nowadays I will create one website every two years or so (and around 20+ micro sites only - as they are easy money).

    The main site I create every year or two I will create thousands of articles, extremely fast that are 70%+ unique using something along the lines of "eza keyword spying" as found in private forums of WF (here) - I OUTSOURCE the work as I have "money to burn" (Incase it is a bad job - alot of the time it IS A BAD JOB, you should be prepared to receive, not up to standard work when outsourcing).

    So this is what David was reffering to when he talked about SEO, organic etc - if done "correctly" - it takes AGES and the insight to know that within a couple of years, that website will be making BIG $$$ MONEY!

    I categorize SEO work as "NO RETURN IN THE EYES OF NEWBIES WORK". I love the fact most good webmasters quit after one year with "little to no profits" - less competition .

    10. If you are still hanging around WF, odds are that you have not yet made it "big" - you may need to take "some" of my advice and set up "site by site". Make ten for starters, in niches that you have either tested or know have the capacity to make you more than you pay to host them...

    11. Once these ten "Micro-sites" make you profit that means they can pay for an additional domain (so it's free from now on), make that domain/s. Keep repeating process and within a few years, you will start to see a pattern - that your "SEO" and backlink strategies are really "no longer necessary".

    12. Because the more traffic you generate, you can "refer backlinks" to all new creatives...

    Meaning, your micro sites that you launch will be automatically populated from day 1 and make you money almost straight away once you back link to them from other websites of yours...

    THERE IS A MAJOR BONUS HERE:

    Some of your new websites will spike massive amounts of profits and you will wonder how/why...

    It is because the traffic that you "throw at them" from your other websites is legitimate traffic, meaning google will see the fact visitors are going to your site (through adsense monitoring of your website) and automatically judge how long the visitors stay on your website (micro-site/s) - the longer the users stay and if they do more than one page load on your website, this tells google your site "has worth" and google therefore rewards your site with more unq's (Uniques).

    MEANING: If you launched this website in the start when you had no websites, google may only throw one user per month at it, however, since you have "link juice" (can refer surfers to a new websites that you make). Google picks up that your website is of "worth" thousands of hours faster and therefore ranks it accordingly - literally overnight sometimes...

    SEE THE ADVANTAGE OF HAVING "ORGANIC TRAFFIC"?

    YOU CAN SETUP WEBSITE AFTER WEBSITE LITERALLY "OVERNIGHT" WITH THRIVING RESULTS...

    WHEREAS WITH GOOGLE ADWORDS, YOU ARE LIMITED TO PAYING ADWORDS $1,000 A POP FOR POSSIBLY NO RESULTS AND MONTHS SPENT "FINE TUNING" POSSIBLY FAILING WEBSITE/S FOR NOTHING.

    Best method to use adwords is once you already have traffic to throw around and test creatives (before using adwords).

    And/or Use adwords in the very start (maybe spend 10,000 to get your first few websites busy to "short-cut" your success path the way Dave has been kind enough to expose above).

    13. I call this my own (don't hate me) - "WEB OF DECEIT" & People have been known to come to one of my websites today and spend the next one or two years searching through the rest of them, assuming it's the internet, when it is all of my "web of deceit". - One adsense click can amount to 10 from the same person if done correctly.

    It is not abnormal for webmasters in the same niche to both post "banners" at the top of their competing webpages in order to "throw traffic left and right" so both profiteer - this method can be adapted in many ways (so think out of the box) - however you must have busy websites in order to be known as an actual webmaster - THIS METHOD IS NOT WITHOUT MAJOR RISK TO BOTH PARTIES, HOWEVER IF YOU ADVERTISE THEIR SITE IN AN AREA OF YOUR WEBSITE AFTER YOU KNOW THE USER HAS BYPASSED THE ADSENSE OR CPA, THEN YOU BOTH CAN MAKE ALOT MORE INCOME.

    For this reason, I reccomend you only enter about ten niches with a long-term outlook to nurture these ten niches so you have many micro-sites flanking them that target slightly different keywords of interest.

    14. In google adsense guidelines, no one person can click more than once within a given time period (per website) - however, one person can infact click on ten different websites of yours so long as they only do it once per day/week etc.

    15. If you succesfully setup a new micro-site, with a "second host" for the same keyword, google will rank BOTH OF THOSE WEBSITES within the top ten results.

    INTERESTING:
    Infact, when you have above PR2+ websites, it is interesting to note that I can make totally similar domains (exact same) with an "s" for "plural" at the end of my domain names and mysteriously, both websites will rank one under another, google will not "slap" them unless human reviewed (RARELY OCCURS) so usually I will do this if my niche is "armoured" by many slightly lower ranked domains and for the next 6 months+ I will take two spots... Very weird, however truthfully people talk about "slaps" - never in my 16 year webastry career has this occured to me unless I tried to incorporate cpa offers for websites below PR2.

    16. If your "friends" set up a third, fourth, fifth (different friends) website for the same niche, then you stand to be able to dominate the first ten SERPS for all search engines.

    (provided that your friends have different adsense and google logins).

    17. At this stage you may be thinking that this is illegal, it's actually not, people are free (your friends) to do just as you did. That's the beauty of life. If larger companies are allowed to spam smaller companies (through red tape) to dominate certain markets, then humans should also allowed to tell their friends about what they are doing and their friends allowed to make their own website (UNLESS YOU WANT TO SUE THEM FOR STEALING YOUR IDEA, WHICH YOU DON'T). etc.

    18. The "ILLEGAL" part of this, would be when those friends "give you their adsense income". So don't do that .

    19. HINT: This is why I have setup my own training for friends who want the webmaster career. These friends will donate 10% income to myself for my trainings. Totally legit. They may become my competitors - this is why trust is essential. However - it's "LEGAL".

    20. Hope this insight into professional organic webmastry has slightly assisted you on your path/s to glory and thank-you Dave for your frank discussion on adwords.

    I will however ad, that you all want to be positioned in the "Banner Advertising, single page placement" sector of adwords, and not in the "KEYWORD. TEXTUAL" part of adwords (which is here you receive "FRESH" or "NEWBIE" internet users who are more inclined to purchase).

    Note: Search results are typically "recycled" unq's, meaning, the customer already know there are "x product" and are seeking the "BEST" they can find (cheaper, free, bla bla bla). However a professional looking banner ad instantly gains the users TRUST and typically newbies click the banner ads without doing rsearch, this is when they are at their weakest (not in the review stage) and where they are most likely to "buy on impulse", search results are simply a way to "find the best", banners are a way to "buy somewthing when you are either bored or do not know you are looking for it".

    If we target the "richest demographic" websites online (so websites like hollywood, stars, etc focus or website that talk to "rich people" - like "hobby" websites, "holiday resort website", hotel websites, "non-poor people" websites), then we guarantee the user probably has the money and the credit card to "purchase on the spot".

    A VERY SIMPLE NO BRAINER (YET ADVANCED TECHNUQUE) IS TO SEARCH FOR "QSP" (Quantified selling point) keywords on google, then the top ten search results (or top 20), find the "richest buyer sites you can find", then advertise on them with banner ads.

    Another method is typing into "alexa" the keyword/s and finding the "world's busiest adwords banner sites" (and/or text adwords sites) and advertising on them. (don't discount youtube, it is possible to do youtube if you succeed on a couple of minor pages, however ensure you professionally design the graphic for youtube or it is declined.

    That is advanced and that is all that is required to make you millions of dollars (if you have the adwords funds to back it up and initially fail during the "trial and error" stage of confirming profitability).

    By using "banner ads" on the single page display network on "adwords", you bypass any "keyword relevance scores and guarantee cheapest possible pricing and effectively "takeover any websites" full impressions for your banner, meaning, one web-page on one website could literally make you $1,000,000+ per year if placed correctly.

    that is the game - are you in it yet?

    Good luck WARRIORS! I love all the contributors and this is why I have been so "frank" here today.
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    • Profile picture of the author hkay
      Originally Posted by AskiKaOwnzYou View Post


      8. NOTE: GOOGLE "SLAPS" your website out of it's rankings if it detects clickbank or any other "non-reputable" cpa offer on your page, make no mistake, most clickbank offers are from RIP-OFF MERCHANTS (however the fact most people do not know the stuff they pay for is typically of "inferior value") and the incorrect assumtpion or lack of knowledge of how to go about receiving a refund (after purchasing the product) plays on their mind and most think they are not "beggars" and should not "steep so low" as to ask for a refund from something they purchased.

      .
      I still see many clickbank products being promoted by affiliates - is google against all clickbank products or uses a set of criteria to slap sites promoting certain types of clickbank products.

      Following the above, who are the safe merchants apart from clickbank?

      thanks
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      • Profile picture of the author adc
        Great post Dave. I've got to agree with you about PPC. I've just seen some organic listings crash and burn and I'm just getting exhausted by the constant struggle to keep up with seo. If you're not on the first page of organic results your page might as well not exist. I've - grudgingly - come to the conclusion it's better (for me and my temperament at least, though I can easily see why others might feel differently) to accept the one way I can guarantee getting eyeballs is by paying for them.
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  • Profile picture of the author ailaopo
    very good. just study
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  • Profile picture of the author sun22
    Very good advise. Thank you all for providing so much info. it really helps us a lot.
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  • Profile picture of the author Ulley
    Hi Dave

    Is your CPV Manual wso still open? Your last entry to that thread was in Aug.

    If it is I wish to purchase a copy. But paypal does not work for me, CB and 2CO do. If you can send me a link on either, I am on my way.

    Btw, I don't have any record with paypal, let alone a bad one, I am new to IM. Just that my bank won't "honour" paypal but it does the others.

    Thanking you in advance.

    Ulley
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    • Profile picture of the author Dave Ward
      Originally Posted by Ulley View Post

      Hi Dave

      Is your CPV Manual wso still open? Your last entry to that thread was in Aug.

      If it is I wish to purchase a copy. But paypal does not work for me, CB and 2CO do. If you can send me a link on either, I am on my way.

      Btw, I don't have any record with paypal, let alone a bad one, I am new to IM. Just that my bank won't "honour" paypal but it does the others.

      Thanking you in advance.

      Ulley
      Hi Ulley,

      yes it is. I just sent you a pm.

      Dave
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  • Profile picture of the author kenbuch
    This is definitely why I'm proud member of warrior forum. Getting quality informations from masters of the game.
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    • Profile picture of the author Kenster
      Originally Posted by about2flip View Post

      Great Post Dave!!!

      Unfortunately I can not get my head wrapped on how to create an attractive landing page, capture the email, and then forward the user to the CPA offer. Should I be creating a mini-site with articles related to the niche/cpa offer, and then offer a free ebook, again related to that niche/cpa offer? After they hit submit, do I push them to the CPA offer?

      If I can just see some examples on how I.M's are doing this it will be helpful.

      Second, I'm studying CPA Courses, and none of them tell me how I can hide the link to CPA offer or make the CPA offer look as if it from my website, instead of the link they provide. (I hope that makes sense) Is that cool that you show the link that is provided from the CPA Network? Is there anyway to camouflage the link?

      Thanks for help and advice.

      Normally through your autoresponder service you can direct people to any page you want after they submit their email in your squeeze. Sometimes in the squeeze you send them an offer via email straight away (and tell them you are) but then you also direct them to an offer as a bonus or something like that in hopes of getting two conversions out of them. Other times you collect the email address and have a more strategy driven backend email series and just try and get the initial offer conversion right away. Then do your email marketing later in the future. There are a million different ways to do it.

      You can mask links, but depending on how you are promoting a 100% iframe will accomplish the same thing...it will have your affiliate link offer page show up but in the browser window your own domain is displayed the whole time. Its just a short code you plop up there...super simple!



      Originally Posted by kenbuch View Post

      This is definitely why I'm proud member of warrior forum. Getting quality informations from masters of the game.

      Without WF, I wouldnt be doing this...lots of helpful warriors helped me along the way!!
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      • Profile picture of the author skeetermcgee
        This stuff is very inspirational.

        I'm the worst kind of IM newbie. I can't stay focused on 1 single method for more than 2 weeks it seems. I've been in over 8 months, still nothing to show.

        I lose all faith in whatever I'm working on, because when I don't see results, I feel like I may be doing it wrong and it's not worth another 4 months of work for something that won't produce income.

        Now I'm starting PPC to CPA. I want to do this because it will allow me to see quick results. Even if I lose money for a few days, at least I'll be seeing something happen, and can test and modify until I get positive income.

        There's one thing that keeps holding me back with ppc though. maybe I over analyze things, but it's preventing me from getting started with any confidence in my research. The question is: How do you justify a niche and a specific cpa offer for a group of keywords, before spending time and money on the landing page creation and content? Should I just build a review site, and a simple content site, and whatever else, as different landing pages I can split test? Even without knowing that the offer will produce with the keywords I chose?

        Anyway, great post. Love this thread. It's what keeps me going. I'm almost 100% convinced at this point I will no longer buy any products. I've learned enough, time to take action. Of course, if I read through this 1 or 2 more times, I may talk myself into hiring Dave .
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        • Profile picture of the author Kenster
          Originally Posted by skeetermcgee View Post

          This stuff is very inspirational.

          I'm the worst kind of IM newbie. I can't stay focused on 1 single method for more than 2 weeks it seems. I've been in over 8 months, still nothing to show.

          I lose all faith in whatever I'm working on, because when I don't see results, I feel like I may be doing it wrong and it's not worth another 4 months of work for something that won't produce income.

          Now I'm starting PPC to CPA. I want to do this because it will allow me to see quick results. Even if I lose money for a few days, at least I'll be seeing something happen, and can test and modify until I get positive income.

          There's one thing that keeps holding me back with ppc though. maybe I over analyze things, but it's preventing me from getting started with any confidence in my research. The question is: How do you justify a niche and a specific cpa offer for a group of keywords, before spending time and money on the landing page creation and content? Should I just build a review site, and a simple content site, and whatever else, as different landing pages I can split test? Even without knowing that the offer will produce with the keywords I chose?

          Anyway, great post. Love this thread. It's what keeps me going. I'm almost 100% convinced at this point I will no longer buy any products. I've learned enough, time to take action. Of course, if I read through this 1 or 2 more times, I may talk myself into hiring Dave .


          Yes, that is the problem of many new marketers. It is critically important to stay focused and really stick with something for an extended period of time. When things are not working out, its always easier to jump ship than dig your heels in and work out the kinks...but you will never get anywhere jumping ship with everything you do! But you know that...


          For PPC, what I suggest is to model everything you do off of the campaigns in the competitive keywords that are ranking high. If a guy is paying $2 per click 1000 times a day, you can bet his campaign is nearly optimized, so use the elements of his campaign on yours.

          For example, say you want to bid on the key phrase "lose weight by Christmas". Clearly there won't be much competition because there aren't many searches for it. So what I would do is do a search for the term "lose weight" which is super competitive, check out what those guys are doing and what their landing pages look like, and then try and build your campaign based around that.

          This is a much better strategy then just stabbing in the dark...which isn't very effective, especially if you are new.

          If you have any other questions...be sure to ask away here
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  • Profile picture of the author liovvoil
    So visitors enter your blog/landing page and fill in their username and email?
    What software do you use for building the list? And do the emails sent reach junkbox?
    I never tried email marketing ..
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  • Profile picture of the author AStateOfLogic
    Very nice in-depth post for someone who is pretty new to this scene.
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  • Profile picture of the author Sam Thompson
    Great Post!! came to this Thread via recommendation
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  • Profile picture of the author ibagayan
    thanks for this post. great information and i will start making those lists!!
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  • Profile picture of the author saqr
    by far this is the best mature long term internet marketing method.

    thanks that was really useful post
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  • Profile picture of the author CNP3
    doesn't Google disapprove any and all squeeze pages? And I now you can't direct link to a CPA offer.. so how do you get approved and how do you get your quality score up?
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  • Profile picture of the author justin482000
    hey Dave, thank you for this.
    I was refered to this thread by KevScarb, and I have heard this stuff hundred of times from men like Frank Kern, Eben Pagan....
    but the way you wrote this thread, you wrote it with a strong, honest and sincere voice, which really effect my thinking, and I will put it to good use.

    Thank you, Dave and KevScarb!
    Signature

    There's a famous saying, "Entrepreneurship is about living a few years of your life like most won’t, so that you can live the rest of your life like most can’t."

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  • Profile picture of the author JTzor
    This is, without a doubt, the greatest thread I have read on this beautiful forum in my short time here!!!

    Inspired beyond belief.

    - JT
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    "The Path to success is not a straight line but a jagged, broken road which we must piece together & make our own."

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  • Profile picture of the author Jilawatan
    Awesome and the most valuable thread ever in Warrior Forum
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  • Profile picture of the author Tiffan Meloney
    Last time I ran a PPC campaign i lost a couple hundred. And i stopped. I think the problem i did was choose the product and not the market. then I just basically tried to sell the product instead of capturing emails. Great info right here.
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  • Profile picture of the author PPC-Coach
    It's funny that this post was first made in 2009, explaining perfectly that you don't try to get one hit sales with ppc anymore, you have to build a list in a niche market, yet most totally ignore that.

    They still want "one night stands" instead of "long term relationships" with their ppc campaigns. PPC is still a very powerful way to do CPA offers. But most do it wrong because they ignore everything the OP has clearly stated.

    Don't try for a sale on the first contact. That's like being in a bar, going up to the hottest woman and asking her to marry you. That's called direct linking in PPC marketing. However, what if you could woo her a bit, send her flowers, have long chats on the phone, take her out to dinner a couple times, do you think she'd be more responsive to marrying you after all that? Probably.

    Do THAT with ppc marketing and you'll never need to worry about offers going down, Google slapping you or rollercoaster months of income. You'll be evergreen.

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  • Profile picture of the author jaspast666
    This is a very good, informative piece of information for all newbies that may be struggling by reading all of the worthless products out there.

    This guy knows what hes talking about!
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  • Profile picture of the author wesvista
    Thanks PPC coach
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  • Profile picture of the author b1833
    Old thread, but very good information. Thank you.
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  • Profile picture of the author HarryPothead
    Can't thank you enuf for this information..Really worth reading.
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    Offering my 2 cents to the IM Community

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  • Profile picture of the author nattauhidi
    thanks for sharing. theres so much knowledge shared in this post
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  • Profile picture of the author sicnarf
    Great OP. Just wondering if Dave is still around. I've tried clicking his signature links and they time out.
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  • Profile picture of the author imback
    Great Post. This is a good place for anyone to get reminded about the research that should go into campaigns before, during, and post stages.


    CHAD
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  • Profile picture of the author Hyperion
    Well done!
    Thanks
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    • Profile picture of the author BILLSBILLION
      I hope dave is still alive.
      Signature
      "Life begins at the end of your comfort zone." True, or true?!
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      • Profile picture of the author Dave Ward
        Originally Posted by BILLSBILLION View Post

        I hope dave is still alive.
        LOL .. Dave is alive and well thanks , and hoping to be for a good while yet

        I know this post is fairly old now, and ppc is even harder than when I wrote the post, but the facts about choosing one market remain the same. All clients who I work with in my one on one marketing group have one main niche, and they build a list !

        And if you want further confirmation of that is the way to making money online read this from my one of clients, posted more than a year ago. One year after he started working with me http://www.warriorforum.com/ad-networks-cpa-cpm-cpl-millionaire-makers/253784-12-month-journey-losing-money-my-first-100k-month-what-i-changed-why-worked.html

        oh, and now that I just read it again,it's also a bloody good post too, that every noob should read. Much better than mine !
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        • Profile picture of the author hakona90
          Trevor has recommended me that page..
          i'll like to say to you dave ,, thanks you have got the key
          "PPC TO CPA Making Money Is About The Market Not The Offer"
          thanks alot ,, i have written notes from your post ,,, and it is really logically written ,, i'll tell you my results (with order of God)
          thanks alot for sharing these info it has more value than 1000 wso
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        • Profile picture of the author BILLSBILLION
          Originally Posted by Dave Ward View Post

          LOL .. Dave is alive and well thanks , and hoping to be for a good while yet

          I know this post is fairly old now, and ppc is even harder than when I wrote the post, but the facts about choosing one market remain the same. All clients who I work with in my one on one marketing group have one main niche, and they build a list !

          And if you want further confirmation of that is the way to making money online read this from my one of clients, posted more than a year ago. One year after he started working with me http://www.warriorforum.com/ad-networks-cpa-cpm-cpl-millionaire-makers/253784-12-month-journey-losing-money-my-first-100k-month-what-i-changed-why-worked.html

          oh, and now that I just read it again,it's also a bloody good post too, that every noob should read. Much better than mine !
          Happy to see your post here,After long time.Your post had the maximum response and comments.
          We look forward to your posts,so do please contribute to this forum.
          Signature
          "Life begins at the end of your comfort zone." True, or true?!
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        • Profile picture of the author williamrs
          Originally Posted by Dave Ward View Post

          LOL .. Dave is alive and well thanks , and hoping to be for a good while yet

          I know this post is fairly old now, and ppc is even harder than when I wrote the post, but the facts about choosing one market remain the same. All clients who I work with in my one on one marketing group have one main niche, and they build a list !

          And if you want further confirmation of that is the way to making money online read this from my one of clients, posted more than a year ago. One year after he started working with me http://www.warriorforum.com/ad-networks-cpa-cpm-cpl-millionaire-makers/253784-12-month-journey-losing-money-my-first-100k-month-what-i-changed-why-worked.html

          oh, and now that I just read it again,it's also a bloody good post too, that every noob should read. Much better than mine !
          Yep, it's a really old post and PPC is a bit tougher nowadays.

          However, IMO, this is still one of the best posts about PPC I've seen on this forum. I've seen others teaching how to use a platform or run offers in a specific niche (I myself have created some tutorials like this), but this post teaches (and very well) an important concept that goes beyond just a platform or method. It's an actual marketing concept that can make a lot of difference in someone's business.

          So I too hope you make other posts like this in the near future, because they are good not just for the beginners, but can add a lot to more experienced marketers, too.


          W
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          >> Download Now <<
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          • Profile picture of the author BILLSBILLION
            needs a bump.
            Signature
            "Life begins at the end of your comfort zone." True, or true?!
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  • Profile picture of the author Threaver
    Yeah, very nice post. I am also bias to PPC!
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    A new PPC Ad Network http://www.adnection.com

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  • Profile picture of the author tasaeed
    Excellent , I learn lot from this , specially 1st time i found interesting (informative) to read all reply's in any thread
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  • Profile picture of the author WinsonYeung
    thanks for the excellent post! it's about the market, not the offer! noted*
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  • Profile picture of the author elitesalesgroup
    Hi!
    Im currently running a pay per click campaign with Adcenter.The landing page has a "enter" button which allows the visitor to click through to the offer. Would you recommend adding an optin form in addition to... or instead of the "enter" button ?

    Thanks!
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  • Hi Dave,

    This is a killer post. I learned a lot from the tips that you have written here. I am new to IM and I am still learning it. I sure will remember all the things that you have written here.

    Is it okay to save your post to one of my documents here? I just want to revisit it every now and then as a guide.

    Thank you,

    Carlo Adrian
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  • Profile picture of the author akay
    thank for this tips.
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  • Profile picture of the author Trevor
    Choosing the right market for you is the first step. That's true. Because if you stick with the given market, you can examine the products in greater detail, promote more of them, see which ones convert the best and think why they do.

    You can learn the patterns within the market and that can't be done without deep analyzation of the market.

    All in all, I recommend that you stay in one market until you completely "dominate" it - meaning understanding it from inside out and knowing what products convert the best, with what traffic sources, etc.
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    • Profile picture of the author jhguynn
      Thanks for the great info. I arrived here as follows:

      chadhamzeh dot com / blog "who are you selling to" linked to KevScarb's "12 month journey" Warrior post, which linked to this post.

      I really appreciate the time that those-in-the-know take to share so others can learn. Awesome information.
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  • Profile picture of the author fukushima99
    Excellent information, thank you so much. Still so valuable...
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  • Profile picture of the author andlosek
    Thanks to Dave for this Superb post.Hope will get more in near future.
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  • Profile picture of the author Xtronikz
    Banned
    This my friends is one of the most helpful articles that should be circulated around the internet marketing niche for anyone that wants to get into CPA Maketing. Props to you dave for an amazing post!
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  • Profile picture of the author PPC-Coach
    I'm still amazed at how many absolutely refuse to do this.

    It's shocking.

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    • Profile picture of the author Sirr
      Pure gold! Even though this was posted in 2009 it's still very relevant to me today. I came across this by mistake on a Google search and found some nuggets of great info in this thread.
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  • Profile picture of the author LizM
    Thank you Dave, I just started with my campaign in cpa "wasting money". I paused the campaign and will do a proper keyword research. One is blinded by the offer network and traffic sources. There are different ways to join as an affiliate. What gets me are all the rules and regulations. Your way of list building is so much more free. It is like a jigsaw puzzle, starting with the correct keyword and everything else falls in place.
    Regards
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