What is AdWords Up To?

16 replies
It has been a while since I have used AdWords. So long in fact that I had to "activate" the AdWords service in the "new" Google apps interface. So I am curious about something that I had not encountered before.

I am targeting some keywords in a niche, not important which niche. Let's take one for example, where the minimum bid recommended by AdWords was £4 if I want my ad to get on page 1 of results.

In other words, if I bid less I may only get my ad to appear on page 2 or 3. Now I want to get cheaper traffic than that so I bid much less just to see what would happen. Unsurprisingly I did not get any impressions at all.

But there is a surprising bit. When I search my keyword, there is exactly ONE ad at the top of the search results, and ZERO ads on pages 2 and 3.

This can only mean that there is no bid. Nearly nobody is bidding on that word, but if I bid lower than Google's recommended minimum there are no impressions.

To put it succinctly, Google would rather have no revenue than sell a click for less than a certain amount. And that certain amount was not determined by the bidding mechanism.

Has anyone else had a similar experience?

Hey, I have been away from AW for about 10 years so if I am showing my ignorance, please cut me some slack! ;^)
#adwords
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  • Profile picture of the author ChrisBa
    Are you in the same region that you're ads are targeted for?
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  • Profile picture of the author PBScott
    I usually bid higher at the beginning and then lower my bid later, you might want to give that a try.

    If they don't think your ad is relevant then they likely won't allow it, I would suspect that Google doesn't think it is relevant. I don't think they want to alienate the few remaining people who don't adblock these days with annoying suggestions.
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    • Profile picture of the author Peter Adamson
      Originally Posted by ChrisBa View Post

      Are you in the same region that you're ads are targeted for?
      Yes, I am targeting UK, US etc and I am in the UK


      Originally Posted by PBScott View Post

      I usually bid higher at the beginning and then lower my bid later, you might want to give that a try.

      If they don't think your ad is relevant then they likely won't allow it, I would suspect that Google doesn't think it is relevant. I don't think they want to alienate the few remaining people who don't adblock these days with annoying suggestions.
      Thanks for pointing this out. I don't see how the relevancy thing could affect it, as the search term is in the headline. But G can be funny about things like this.
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    • Profile picture of the author nickyz1
      hello at what rate do you bid at the start. my buddings usually don't work
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  • Profile picture of the author Piya2893
    Hey,
    Google AdWords is based on an auction system that rewards businesses who have high-quality ad campaigns with lower costs and better ad placement.
    The most expensive keywords in AdWords and Bing Ads.
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    • Profile picture of the author Peter Adamson
      Originally Posted by Piya2893 View Post

      Hey,
      Google AdWords is based on an auction system that rewards businesses who have high-quality ad campaigns with lower costs and better ad placement.
      The most expensive keywords in AdWords and Bing Ads.
      I think you are missing the point. In this particular case, there is evidence that price and placement are not determined by the auction system.

      The amount and number of bids for a given keyword determine its competitiveness. When you first bid on a keyword, Google provides guidance based on this information that they have and you don't.

      There are typically 4 sponsored links (ads) at the top of search results for competitive keywords. If Google advises you to bid $5 to get on page 1, this means that there are already 4 ads on page 1 and you will have to bid $5 in order to outbid #4.

      So when Google tells me to bid £4 ($5.20) to get on the first page this means (in theory) that there are 4 bidders whose ads are on the first page, and three of them are bidding higher than $5.20 but the fourth one is bidding lower than this amount.

      So I am curious when I search for my keyword and there is one single ad on page 1 and no ads on subsequent pages. This is a keyword with one bidder. Why is Google advising me to bid $5.20 and not displaying my ad if I bid less?

      That is my experience this past week. My question is are there any warriors out there with similar experiences?
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  • Profile picture of the author Peter Adamson
    Update.

    @ChrisBa you made me think a bit, maybe this is only occurring in the UK, with US search results full of ads. This would indicate that I am bidding US rates for all the countries in my list and should be bidding independently.

    So I used US and Canadian proxies and got very similar results. The search results are similar but not identical. The top results are the same but further down there are some differences.

    This is what I have so far:
    google.co.uk: one ad at top of page 1, no ads on subsequent pages
    google.ca from Canadian IP: one ad at top of page 1 & 2 (same ad), no ads on subsequent pages
    google.com from US IP: one ad at top of page 1, 2 & 3 (same ad), no ads on subsequent pages

    Is it possible that the bidder has deliberately tied up all the top places with a single ad? Can this be done with AdWords?

    The keyword is "traffic and conversion" (without the quotes).
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  • Profile picture of the author Atit Noor
    Hopping it will be beneficial for me also..... Thanks....
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  • Profile picture of the author sternco
    I could imagine that after seeing their bid is not enough for the first page, Adwords users might just stop the campaign as they wouldn't expect any significant results from it. Also, I am not sure there are a whole many people going to 2nd and 3rd search result pages.
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    • Profile picture of the author Peter Adamson
      Originally Posted by sternco View Post

      I could imagine that after seeing their bid is not enough for the first page, Adwords users might just stop the campaign as they wouldn't expect any significant results from it. Also, I am not sure there are a whole many people going to 2nd and 3rd search result pages.
      Thanks for your thoughts. However there is something that does not fit. It is not important that few people look at page 2. Google will tell you if you want your ad to make it to page 1, bit X dollars.

      According to the auction theory, which is what Google tells us, if there were only one single ad appearing on page 1, then you could bid one cent and still get second slot on page 1. Why do I have to bid $5 to get on page 1 when there are empty ad spaces?

      Also, you may not have noticed that I mentioned that all ads for this keyword are the same ad. There is only one bidder for this keyword. Apparently no one else has had this experience so I guess it will remain a mystery.
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      • Profile picture of the author 52.ct
        Originally Posted by Peter Adamson View Post

        Thanks for your thoughts. However there is something that does not fit. It is not important that few people look at page 2. Google will tell you if you want your ad to make it to page 1, bit X dollars.

        According to the auction theory, which is what Google tells us, if there were only one single ad appearing on page 1, then you could bid one cent and still get second slot on page 1. Why do I have to bid $5 to get on page 1 when there are empty ad spaces?

        Also, you may not have noticed that I mentioned that all ads for this keyword are the same ad. There is only one bidder for this keyword. Apparently no one else has had this experience so I guess it will remain a mystery.
        Try setting up an ad at Adword's suggested 1st page bid then lower if bid once you obtain a high CTR and quality score. I agree though it is frustrating.

        Here is a link from another Adwords forum discussing this issue: https://www.en.advertisercommunity.c...on/m-p/1189542
        edit to fix typos
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  • Profile picture of the author Atit Noor
    It proceeds Object because of type-erasure which replaces all nonspecific types with Purpose. There is no way to determine at runtime what generic type was on condition that at compile-time.
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  • Profile picture of the author dburk
    Hi Peter,

    Perhaps I can provide a little insight into what you are observing.

    As you may already know, AdWords implemented Quality Scores back in 2005, If your were advertising back then you are probably very aware of that event, Commonly called the "Google Slap".

    The introduction of Quality Scores fixed a major problem for Google, declining ad revenue due to low trust in the ad quality by searchers. Quality Score radically changed how the AdWords ad auction works. At that point Ad rank was determined by multiplying your bid by your Quality Score to calculate Your Ad Rank Score.

    There have been a number of modifications to the ad auction since then.

    Currently, Ad Rank Scores are calculated by multiplying your Expected Click-through-rate by your Bid. So in addition to ad Quality Score, your "Expected CTR (adjusted for projected impact of ad extensions) will determine your Ad Rank Score.

    Another thing to consider is that Google will not display any ads at the top of the search results that have less than a QS7. So there is no way that your brand new ad will display at the top of SERP. You have to wait until you a\have earned a QS of 7 or higher for the search term and only then will your ad appear at the top of the SERP.

    Bear in mind that your ads are not competing for page position based solely on other advertiser competition, you are also competing with organic search results. All ads have to compete with organic search results for a position on the page. If an ad doesn't rank high enough it isn't going to appear on the page at all.

    The reason you are seeing only one ad at the top of the page is because only one advertiser bid high enough to be there while also scoring an above average Quality Score. As a brand new advertiser it isn't likely that you have enough data accumulated to determine your Quality Score, and thus no possibility to earn a top ad slot position.

    I hope that makes sense. Here are a couple links that go into a bit more detail for you:

    https://support.google.com/adwords/answer/1722122?hl=en

    https://support.google.com/adwords/a..._topic=3121771

    HTH,

    Don Burk
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    • Profile picture of the author Peter Adamson
      Originally Posted by dburk View Post

      Hi Peter,

      Perhaps I can provide a little insight into what you are observing.
      MASSIVE insight. Totally awesome reply. It was clear to me that some pre-emptive calculation was being made that did not involve empirical evidence from actual clicks. You explained it well. 2 thumbs up!
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  • Profile picture of the author Art Gallery
    Google AdWords is an online advertising service developed by Google, where advertisers pay to display brief advertising copy, product listings, and video content within the Google ad network to web users. Google AdWords' system is based partly on cookies and partly on keywords determined by advertisers.
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  • Profile picture of the author diet1
    Google would rather have a "vacancy" in an ad position than give it to an advertiser too cheaply (in their view). It's as if they realize that always running those 4 top ads are mild annoyances to their searchers, and they are unwilling to "devalue" their searchers' experience with ads unless Google is paid sufficiently for slightly harming its searcher experience. Of course, pay them sufficiently, and this "concern" goes away.

    It's also like they are setting an exclusivity revenue floor on the "value"of the ad. It's not really just on the price of the bid though. Someone else who bid less than you might have their ad appear (even though yours doesn't) if Google feels that the other advertiser's expected CTR would be higher, and thus provide Google with more revenues than your ad would, even though the other advertiser is bidding less.

    If your ad has not established a CTR history for that keyword, Google uses their "guess-timate" based on prior history of that adgroup and other info. If it's a new adgroup, you have even less history. If it's a new Adwords account, you have even LESS. The less history that you account has with Google, the less credibility that you have with them, and the more they will charge you. When you first start using Adwords, they really hose you, and make you pay to "establish a CTR history" with them. You could shell out thousands before you get your ads to show at a reasonable cost when you first start your account (depending on your keywords). Google considers this a part of your investment in Adwords.

    I have keywords that I routinely pay $0.65 (USD) in Bing Ads, which my Google representative suggested that I bid $4.00 for on their system to start getting my ads to display. This would only be until I get an Adwords CTR history established since it was a new Adwords account. He said I should expect to lose thousands for 90 days on my Adwords account, but that I should consider it as an investment, as the minimum bid to show my ad would come down as the ad value gains credibility through actual results (CTR). At the same time, he said, I would gain the knowledge of which keywords will eventually make me a lot of money.

    Sounds fun, huh? Yeah, I thought it sounded great too! What's a few thousand bucks here and there between friends to get the relationship established. I hope my sarcasm is coming though, folks.
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    • Profile picture of the author Peter Adamson
      Originally Posted by diet1 View Post

      Google would rather have a "vacancy" in an ad position than give it to an advertiser too cheaply
      Confirms my suspicions. Thanks for the insight.
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    • Profile picture of the author 52.ct
      Originally Posted by diet1 View Post

      Google would rather have a "vacancy" in an ad position than give it to an advertiser too cheaply (in their view). It's as if they realize that always running those 4 top ads are mild annoyances to their searchers, and they are unwilling to "devalue" their searchers' experience with ads unless Google is paid sufficiently for slightly harming its searcher experience. Of course, pay them sufficiently, and this "concern" goes away.

      It's also like they are setting an exclusivity revenue floor on the "value"of the ad. It's not really just on the price of the bid though. Someone else who bid less than you might have their ad appear (even though yours doesn't) if Google feels that the other advertiser's expected CTR would be higher, and thus provide Google with more revenues than your ad would, even though the other advertiser is bidding less.


      If your ad has not established a CTR history for that keyword, Google uses their "guess-timate" based on prior history of that adgroup and other info. If it's a new adgroup, you have even less history. If it's a new Adwords account, you have even LESS. The less history that you account has with Google, the less credibility that you have with them, and the more they will charge you. When you first start using Adwords, they really hose you, and make you pay to "establish a CTR history" with them.
      Does this apply to the content network also.. or does this "guess-timate" only apply to ads that appear on Googles's SERP (search engine results page)? In other words, could I bid a market determined price on keywords without Google's forced to pay to play "guess-timate" on thier SERPs on the content network?


      Originally Posted by diet1 View Post

      You could shell out thousands before you get your ads to show at a reasonable cost when you first start your account (depending on your keywords). Google considers this a part of your investment in Adwords.

      I have keywords that I routinely pay $0.65 (USD) in Bing Ads, which my Google representative suggested that I bid $4.00 for on their system to start getting my ads to display. This would only be until I get an Adwords CTR history established since it was a new Adwords account. He said I should expect to lose thousands for 90 days on my Adwords account, but that I should consider it as an investment, as the minimum bid to show my ad would come down as the ad value gains credibility through actual results (CTR). At the same time, he said, I would gain the knowledge of which keywords will eventually make me a lot of money.

      Sounds fun, huh? Yeah, I thought it sounded great too! What's a few thousand bucks here and there between friends to get the relationship established. I hope my sarcasm is coming though, folks.
      This reminds me of what the character of Georgie Santorelli does in "University", the 6th episode of Season 3 of the HBO original series The Sopranos. Georgie had a simple job to act as a doorman to the VIP room of the Bada Bing and only allow mobsters and strippers into the the VIP room. Yet Georgie shakes down the the strippers by forcing them to pay him $50 dollars and "other acts" later own. In this scenario I fill like the stripper and Georgie Santorelli is Google forcing me to pay a inflated prices to bid on keywords.
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