Case Study: PPC -> CPA Zip Submit

Here's some additional details on my Campaign:

- 44 ad groups (Each around a brand)
- Each ad group has about 60-90 keyword variations (meaning 20-30 keywords using the exact match, broad match, and phrase match)
- Each ad group has the 9 sizes of image ads
- Daily budget of $5.00 for testing
- Content network settings are for AUTO placement (I always start this way, then see what sites are converting and then use Managed placement)

Thanks

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oscarkool

14 years ago

Content network only uses broad match and it only counts up to 50 keywords in an adgroup. You need to get rid of phrase and exact because that's for search only. Also separate adgroups into groups of around 5-15 keywords each. Try various adgroup sizes. Sometimes big sizes work, and sometimes 1 keyword/adgroup works. Content network is strange.

Also increase daily budget to around $20+ if you want to see a good amount of traffic. Google severely limits the amount of impressions you'll receive at $5 unless you bid high (which is actually a good advanced strategy to get a feel for a market - budget low, bid high).

[ 2 ] Thanks
1 reply

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Jeff S

14 years ago

Originally Posted by oscarkool

Content network only uses broad match and it only counts up to 50 keywords in an adgroup. You need to get rid of phrase and exact because that's for search only. Also separate adgroups into groups of around 5-15 keywords each. Try various adgroup sizes. Sometimes big sizes work, and sometimes 1 keyword/adgroup works. Content network is strange.

Also increase daily budget to around $20+ if you want to see a good amount of traffic. Google severely limits the amount of impressions you'll receive at $5 unless you bid high (which is actually a good advanced strategy to get a feel for a market - budget low, bid high).

I've removed the exact & phrase match keywords. Knowing that Google looks at the first 50ish keywords per adgroup to determine where you ads should be placed, I should have known better (just wasn't sure if it would hurt). I also increased the daily budget to $20

Thanks

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williamrs

14 years ago

Jeff,

I also like the P2Y idea and I'm preparing a campaign to try it. But just would like to ask you something: why do you think that AdWords could ban your account? I can't see why they would do it...

Also, usually they don't ban the accounts immediately, first they tell you to stop that campaign, and ban you only if you ignore them.

My campaign is not ready as yours, I still have many things to do. But I have already chosen the offer (email submit) and created the landing page. Actually, I created a beautiful and trustable layout using Photoshop, I hope it helps. Also, I have improved the PHP script supplied by P2Y. My script allows you to use capital letters in the beggining of each word that compose your Kw if you want. For example: kw=warrior-forum can be used in these both ways: "warrior forum" and "Warrior Forum" (without the quotes, of course). I think it's good to use in the article's title. My script also rotates links, what's important since I got links from 3 networks for this offer (they have different payouts and probably will have different scrub rates too). Besides the PHP I also included a Javascript Countdown (you can set up as many minutes as you want).

If you are interested in my scripts just PM your email address and I'll send it to you. Before becoming a full time affiliate I used to work as a freelancer, developing designs and codes, so I'll be happy to help you if you need any assistance with this kind of thing. Hope we can help each other to get great results.

William

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Jeff S

14 years ago

Originally Posted by williamrs

Jeff,

I also like the P2Y idea and I'm preparing a campaign to try it. But just would like to ask you something: why do you think that AdWords could ban your account? I can't see why they would do it...

With the increased slaps to Adwords affiliate accounts lately, and so much talk about email/zip sites not looked upon nicely by Google, I'm just taking precautions as I can risk having my main Adwords accounts impacted by this and other tests I run

Also, usually they don't ban the accounts immediately, first they tell you to stop that campaign, and ban you only if you ignore them.

Except for the instances where they do not give you notice

My campaign is not ready as yours, I still have many things to do. But I have already chosen the offer (email submit) and created the landing page. Actually, I created a beautiful and trustable layout using Photoshop, I hope it helps. Also, I have improved the PHP script supplied by P2Y. My script allows you to use capital letters in the beggining of each word that compose your Kw if you want. For example: kw=warrior-forum can be used in these both ways: "warrior forum" and "Warrior Forum" (without the quotes, of course). I think it's good to use in the article's title. My script also rotates links, what's important since I got links from 3 networks for this offer (they have different payouts and probably will have different scrub rates too). Besides the PHP I also included a Javascript Countdown (you can set up as many minutes as you want).

If you are interested in my scripts just PM your email address and I'll send it to you. Before becoming a full time affiliate I used to work as a freelancer, developing designs and codes, so I'll be happy to help you if you need any assistance with this kind of thing. Hope we can help each other to get great results.

William

Sounds good...I'll PM you. For this test I'm doing a single network test (normally I do rotations to various networks), and I also wrote a small PHP script that dynamically changes a date image on my LP to create a sense of urgency. One thing I'm trying in my LP content is to "pre-sell"...not so much on the offer, but what it is they need to do (Ex. enter in their email address)

Thanks

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oscarkool

14 years ago

The google slaps have nothing to do with the offers being promoted, it has to do with the webpages affiliates are using to promote them (ie polls, empty LPs with just a banner, etc.). If google didn't like email submits, they would slap every affiliate running opt-ins. Fact is, they slap everyone

You hear about non-affiliates getting slapped all the time.

Also, with a $20 budget, watch it closely. If you have no leads after 30 clicks, the offer probably scrubbed (rotate a new one in).

Thanks
1 reply

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Thumoney

14 years ago

Originally Posted by oscarkool

The google slaps have nothing to do with the offers being promoted, it has to do with the webpages affiliates are using to promote them (ie polls, empty LPs with just a banner, etc.).

That's not correct. Look at free trial offers. Even direct links can get you slapped and banned.

Just that nobody gets wrong infos.

Thanks
1 reply

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oscarkool 14 years ago

Originally Posted by Thumoney

That's not correct. Look at free trial offers. Even direct links can get you slapped and banned.

Just that nobody gets wrong infos.

Like I said, anything can get you slapped and banned. So the argument can go both ways. I know affiliates making 10k a month just by direct-linking rebills. And I know non-affiliates that have been slapped. Google allows rebills, they just have to comply with their terms. The reason flogs get banned is because they are deceitful and full of lies in order to trick the google searcher resulting in a poor user experience.

I have asked google reps multiple times if they allow rebills and I always get the same answer: yes, except google money trees. The people telling you otherwise are people lying to you to keep you from competing. It's very easy to profit big time off of rebills right now.

So here's what we know: flogs will get you banned and cloaking will get you banned. Bad landing pages will get you slapped. Multiple slaps become a ban.
- Thanks
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Kenster

14 years ago

Good luck and you seem to have a handle on things.

What kind of tracking do you have set up?

Thanks
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Jeff S 14 years ago

Originally Posted by Kenster

Good luck and you seem to have a handle on things.

What kind of tracking do you have set up?

Normally I'd use Prosper for something like this, but I'm just testing one offer so what I'm doing instead is dynamically populating my SUBID with my keyword. I know I'm not supposed to give that level of detail to my network, but this is the testing phase and if it's successful, then I'll use Prosper (or something that lets me track more granular down to the keyword (across multiple traffic sources, using URL cloaking, etc)
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Austin E Anthony

14 years ago

Good luck buddy.It sound nice..

Thanks

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Jeff S

14 years ago

I know Adwords is usually a bit delayed, but one thing I'm noticing is the lack of impressions. I have a total of 39 impressions, most are coming from one adgroup, with 19 impressions coming from a single image ad (728x90), and my ad position is good at an avg of 1.2.

So in order to increase my exposure, here are the things I'll be doing

1. First, I'm going to put in the short tail phrase. For example, if my adgroup is targeting "free nike air jordans 2010", I'm going to put in "nike air jordans" and remove the "free" and "2010" qualifiers.
2. I'll probably at some point create text ads, but that will change my overall test (images only)
3. Should neither of those steps work, then I'll move into the Adwords Search network keeping my long-tail keywords and low Max CPC rates. With network EPC's on this offer at about $0.40, I don't want to pay more than $0.20 for a 100% ROI.

In the end, this is all about testing, but since this test is only trying to make money on the front end (meaning I'm not building a list) it needs to be profitable up front.

We'll see....

Thanks

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Jeff S

14 years ago

With only 253 impressions yesterday across all my adgroups and zero clicks, here's what I'm doing today to see if I can increase the impressions.

1. Created a new adgroup and populated it with only a few short tail keyphrases (Ex. if I were targeting shoes, my only keywords are around "Nike" instead of longtail such as "nike air jordans"

When you go after shorter-tail keywords, you tend to have to increase your max CPC to get exposure, but I have to keep my CPC rates down.

One other side note, one of my networks sent out an list of expiring offers and there were 50+ email offers they are no longer running (and it's one of the bigger networks). This tells me two things, (1) a reminder that you always want to be rotating offers so that if one network expires, you can redirect traffic to others, and (2) I'm curious to see if email/zip submit offers aren't converting on the backend as much as they used to so advertisers are clamping down.

Thanks
1 reply

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TE2

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Jeff Scott

With only 253 impressions yesterday across all my adgroups and zero clicks, here's what I'm doing today to see if I can increase the impressions.

1. Created a new adgroup and populated it with only a few short tail keyphrases (Ex. if I were targeting shoes, my only keywords are around "Nike" instead of longtail such as "nike air jordans"

When you go after shorter-tail keywords, you tend to have to increase your max CPC to get exposure, but I have to keep my CPC rates down.

One other side note, one of my networks sent out an list of expiring offers and there were 50+ email offers they are no longer running (and it's one of the bigger networks). This tells me two things, (1) a reminder that you always want to be rotating offers so that if one network expires, you can redirect traffic to others, and (2) I'm curious to see if email/zip submit offers aren't converting on the backend as much as they used to so advertisers are clamping down.

Jeff,

Google content network works off of "Themes". Make sure that all of the keywords in each ad group are around the same theme. Google analyzes them to determine what sites to display your content on. If it is not clear, google gets confused and you will get low impressions.

Regards,

John

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Jeff S

14 years ago

Originally Posted by TE2

Jeff,

Google content network works off of "Themes". Make sure that all of the keywords in each ad group are around the same theme. Google analyzes them to determine what sites to display your content on. If it is not clear, google gets confused and you will get low impressions.

Regards,

John

Yup, I've been sure to keep my keywords grouped into "themes". What I just did was add about 20 relevant keywords from the Keyword Suggestion tool directly in Adwords, so hopefully this will help with impressions.

I did get a click today thus far, and that visitor did click through my LP to the offer, but no sign up (that's fine...it's a numbers game so I'll just keep a close eye on my conversion rate)

Thanks

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dannyb1974

14 years ago

great thread with good info

you can always ring adwords re any ads you put on there and they will advise if needed

Thanks
1 reply

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Jeff S 14 years ago

Originally Posted by dannyb1974

great thread with good info

you can always ring adwords re any ads you put on there and they will advise if needed

Agreed. I haven't had any image ads denied yet, but I've had enough text ads rejected to know what I should and shouldn't try
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Jeff S

14 years ago

An update for today so far:

1. After yesterday's change where I created a new adgroup with shorter-tail keywords and added the Google suggested keywords, I had a few more impressions. I ended yesterday with 405 impressions, 1 click (0.25% CTR which is what I'm used to seeing in the content network). That one click did go from my landing page to the CPA offer page, but no sign up.

(SEE SCREENSHOTS ATTACHED)

Today, I've currently received 93 impressions, 1 click (on my NEW adgroup I created yesterday), and that click when through my LP to the offer page and did sign up for a $1.50 earning. Adwords spend so far is $0.27 and earnings are $1.50, conversions at 50% and a 455% ROI. NOTE: With such small numbers, this isn't really reflective of what the campaign profitability will be. You need a ton more traffic/clicks/earnings to get a real sense of what this setup will achieve.

[ 1 ] Thanks

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navaho

14 years ago

Hi Jeff

Have you thought about trying MySpace / Facebook ads, I find that they are really responsive in some markets!

Thanks
1 reply

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Jeff S 14 years ago

Originally Posted by navaho

Hi Jeff

Have you thought about trying MySpace / Facebook ads, I find that they are really responsive in some markets!

Hi Navaho,

I currently do Facebook ads for two other offers, and will be extending this Case Study eventually out to YSN/BING, maybe tier2 PPC networks as well. However, I can't do Social ads for this offer as it's against the advertiser's policy.
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Jeff S

14 years ago

Problem: Not enough impressions using Image Ads
Resolution: Expanded keywords including, increased daily budget (not CPC). Still not as many impressions as I'd hoped, so it's time to introduce text ads into the mix. I created a separate campaign just for this...here's the break down (NOTE: I use SpeedPPC to do this which makes blowing out new large campaigns much more manageable, and also use the Google Adwords Editor tool for easy updating of everything):

Campaign: Copied my other campaign structure, this new one is for Text Ads only. Budget set to $15 per day (lowering my image ads down to $5 for a total of $20)

Adgroups: 49 adgroups (same as the image adgroups)

Keywords: Broad match only, Max CPC of 0.20, about 20ish keywords all grouped into a theme

Ads: 4 variations, two with static headlines such as "Buy PRODUCT Now", and two using Adwords "dynamic keyword insertion" {keyword:}. Content network is "interruption marketing" and is different than the search network, so my headlines have to be striking/controversial/attention grabbing.

Notes - When uploading my text ads, several were not loading (about 1/3). The reason was a violation of the punctuation policy, I forgot I can't use exclamation points!!!!!!!!! Crisis averted!!!!!!

[ 1 ] Thanks

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williamrs

14 years ago

Jeff, as probably you already know, I was also considering to start a campaign similar to yours. However, I'm afraid now. I think that the chances of getting slapped are really high... I think Google doesn't like campaigns with small sites promoting email/zip submit offers...

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Jeff S

14 years ago

Originally Posted by williamrs

Jeff, as probably you already know, I was also considering to start a campaign similar to yours. However, I'm afraid now. I think that the chances of getting slapped are really high... I think Google doesn't like campaigns with small sites promoting email/zip submit offers...

I hear ya...but like everything else, you won't know until you test it yourself. When I was researching, I saw 50% of the people swear Google would slap you if you did a lightweight site promoting email submits, and the other 50% said it's not a problem and they are doing it. So I took a "small precaution" and created these campaigns under an Adwords account that I wouldn't care if they slapped me.

Google is concerned about User Experience, so if they don't like lightweight sites, then create a real site with content. If they want to make sure you clearly state your privacy policy and have contact info, then include those.

As of now, I have two seperate campaigns running to a site with a landing page, little content, and some privacy disclaimers. I might get slapped, I might not....until then I'll continue testing and trying things out to see what works and what doesn't. And my guess is the big hitters in the CPA space have hit speedbumps in the road including account slaps/bans. It comes with the testing territory

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Fors

14 years ago

I am currently running a zip submit offer with a simple landing page with the content pretty much saying 1. enter zip 2. do that 3, get blabla. Then some pictures and crap like that.

Have been running it for 2 weeks now and its got reviewed by a human without any problems so far so It's not as bad as people make it out to be.

Thanks

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williamrs

14 years ago

Yeah, maybe you are right... I think that it's a kind of mistery... if you are unlucky you will get slap, on the contrary, you won't...

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Ethan F.

14 years ago

I wish I could do a case study like this.. but I had a campaign that I believe got slapped a long time ago when I was trying poll method, and i've never been able to get any impressions since. And of course google never responds to tell me anything.

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Jeff S

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Ethan F.

I wish I could do a case study like this.. but I had a campaign that I believe got slapped a long time ago when I was trying poll method, and i've never been able to get any impressions since. And of course google never responds to tell me anything.

Hey Ethan,

If your old campaigns did get slapped, just make some additional changes to your site/landing page or whatever you think the reason it got slapped and start a new campaign. Obviously Adwords traffic, when done correctly, is TOO IMPORTANT not to fix since it's a way to get massive traffic in a short period of time.

Thanks

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kenc138 14 years ago

Originally Posted by williamrs

Yeah, maybe you are right... I think that it's a kind of mistery... if you are unlucky you will get slap, on the contrary, you won't...

Looking back the past few months, I've been slapped twice. Once was for a survey offer and the other I cannot remember. I do know that BOTH offers had MANY complaints across the internet from people claiming these were scam sites. I think G takes site genre into account when they slap, in addition to free trials and rebills. For example, if you're an online survey company like NPDOR with 40 years in the industry and a good reputation, G will slap your face regardless simply because many players in this field are shady. Just a random thought.

Jeff, I like that you're going all out with this case study, and I really like your idea on making a secondary account just for slap test purposes I may implement the same.

Ken
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- Jeff S 14 years ago
  
  Jeff, I like that you're going all out with this case study, and I really like your idea on making a secondary account just for slap test purposes I may implement the same.
  
  Ken
  
  Thanks Ken! The 2nd account is just-in-case. But I'd be remiss if I just left my existing site the way it is. I'm going to be doing more posts on what I'm doing to help ensure my site is considered a good User Experience and not a one-page-wonder site which I'm sure Google doesn't like.
  
  Thanks
  
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Jeff S

14 years ago

Update for November 18th
-------------------------
(see thumbnail attachments)

My issue the other day was not getting enough impressions, so I duplicated my Image Ads campaign and this time only used text ads (4 variations in each of the 45+ adgroups, with about 20 keywords per adgroup). The text ads have definitely solved this goal as that campaign had 4446 impressions (image ads had 510) but a lousy CTR of only 0.02% which I think is low even for content network. So a total of 2 registered clicks for both campaigns, a massive $0.29 spent (there goes Xmas gifts for the kids

, and two signs ups for $3.00 in revenue. Here's the breakdown:

Impressions: 4956
Clicks: 2
Cost: $0.29
LP to Offer: 100%
Offer to Sale (conversion rate): 100%
Revenue: $3.00
Profit: $1.71
Daily ROI: 934%
(see thumbnail attachments)

Things to improve/test:

- I still need to increase the impressions on the image ads. I read that while image ads have a huge inventory, they are only served when your Max CPC rate for the image ad is greater than the total of ALL text ads. If that is the case, then I'm going to have to be more strategic and possibly do Managed Content network and start picking my places to display those ads.

- My CTR on the text ads is low, so after some additional days of data, I'll write some new shocking headlines and test those "YOU BETTER CLICK HERE OR ELSE"...ehhh, maybe too shocking

Thanks
2 replies

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naonline

14 years ago

Great thread Jeff. I would raise my bids to get more traffic. You may get a negative ROI to start with but you cant test anything with such a low number of impressions/clicks.

Nick

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Jeff S

14 years ago

Originally Posted by naonline

Great thread Jeff. I would raise my bids to get more traffic. You may get a negative ROI to start with but you cant test anything with such a low number of impressions/clicks.

Nick

Thanks Nick...and I agree it's not a real relevant test until I have more data (i.e more traffic/clicks). The only two ways to increase traffic is to expand my keywords (which I plan on doing by scaling into additional brands), or increase my bids to get more traffic on the content network. As of now my EPC is around $0.65, so I have some room to up my CPC rates.

I'll be making some additional changes to my site to prepare for scaling up, then I'll be increasing my CPC rates first on the image ads, then on the text ad campaign.

- Jeff

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talkingsmith

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Jeff Scott

Update for November 18th
- I still need to increase the impressions on the image ads. I read that while image ads have a huge inventory, they are only served when your Max CPC rate for the image ad is greater than the total of ALL text ads. If that is the case, then I'm going to have to be more strategic and possibly do Managed Content network and start picking my places to display those ads.

Jeff: where did you read the image inventory thing? interested to know.
Also, will managed content network allow you bring similiar amount of impresison for image ad as text ad?

Thanks
1 reply

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Jeff S

14 years ago

Originally Posted by talkingsmith

Jeff: where did you read the image inventory thing? interested to know.
Also, will managed content network allow you bring similiar amount of impresison for image ad as text ad?

It was in one of Gauher Chaudhry's videos that he did recently on his PPC 2 course. I'm not a member, but he gave out some great info. I wish I could point you directly to the video/link, but I can't remember exactly. You can check out his CPAHotSpot.com site, or his blog and it might be on there somewhere.

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johnnyN

14 years ago

interesting post Jeff.
I too have seen Gauher Chaudhrys stuff, and he actually mentions something that I was going to comment on about your statistics so far.

Gauher said that google staff told him directly that the reason why impressions may be low for image ads is because the image ad's CTR needs to be better than the combined CTR of the next 5 text ads - otherwise they will show text ads instead.
This makes sense, since it takes up more space than text ads (normally).
This is quite profound, but he did not really say how to get a better CTR for image ads.

I would say that you have to probably manage the placements on image ads to get the better ctr.

--woops, just saw that you said practically the same thing already Jeff. Oh well, it is important and worth saying twice

Thanks
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Midas3 Consulting 14 years ago

Subbing, love case studies.//
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- warrior-flyer 14 years ago
  
  Any updates on the campaign?
  
  Thanks
  
  1 reply
  
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  Jeff S 14 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by warrior-flyer
  
  Any updates on the campaign?
  
  Yup, just posted my daily update a few minutes ago. Let me know if you have any questions
  
  Thanks
  
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Jeff S

14 years ago

Update for November 19th
-------------------------
(see thumbnail attachment)

Adding the text ad campaign brought up the impressions as expected, but my CTR was abysmal at only 0.02% for the text ads (image ad CTR was better).

Here's the breakdown from yesterday:

Impressions: 9342
Clicks: 3 (1 image, 2 text ads)
Cost: $0.54
LP to Offer: 0%
Offer to Sale (conversion rate): 0%
Revenue: $0.00
Profit: $0

Things to improve/test:

- I had three visitors to my LP, but none actually clicked through to the offer (I checked this by looking at my reporting on my CPA account, and it shows 0 clicks). I verified the link is correct (nothing changed) but I won't click through the link simply because it affects my EPC rate so dramatically on this low volume
- My average position for the text ads is 3.2 which will kill a content network campaign. So, I'm going to up my Max CPC rate on the text ads to 0.50. What points of data am I using to pick this number? The network EPC rate is around $.50. By bidding at $0.5 on content, I know I'll be paying about 75% of that rate so it's under the network EPC. Also, this is a test so I'm OK if it's not profitable when traffic initially comes in. There are other things I'll be doing to increase conversion rates, increase the value of the Lead, and other things. However, without any real traffic coming in for this test campaign, it's not very helpful for me (or anyone watching this thread)

Thanks

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Jeff S

14 years ago

NOTE: I typically make all my major updates in Google Adwords Editor, but I forgot that the newer Adwords interface improved some functionality for mass updates. In order to increase my Max CPC for all Adgroups, I simply selected all, clicked edit button, entered in 0.50 in the first line and then used the "Copy To All Rows" icon which quickly made the change.

SEE ATTACHED THUMBNAIL

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Voasi

14 years ago

Any update?

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smaxor

14 years ago

Nice thread Jeff, always great when people can see the process. Keep up the good work.

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Paul Clifford

14 years ago

Fascinating thread mate...just lost half an hour at work on this.

;-)

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Clint

14 years ago

Any update???

Clint S

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gotdmw 14 years ago

very interesting thread...

cant u change it to ppv instead of ppc or is it better to only pay for clicks?

are you send them to a landing page maybe they dont like ur page?
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paulie888

14 years ago

Thanks for keeping us updated, Jeff. I'd like to add that you do not have to worry about quality scores with google on the content network (it's only for the search network), and direct linking to the offer should be fine with this.