what do i need to do to make this business work?

24 replies
i am running out of options, ive been in game for about 6 months, ive tried ppc,ppv,seo...

now what i have learned is these last 6 months is amazing, but still no consistent results.

i believe if others can do, then it is very achievable, but i have not found anything that can bring in consistent income, i can have a few good days, but nothing consistent.

i hear of so many making full time income? what am i not doing or doing that is different from others success?

what sets the success apart from majority? work ethic (more testing), more money then others (bigger budget), smarter (more experienced) ?
#business #make #work
  • Profile picture of the author hawaiidave
    I think that the best piece of advice I can give you is to stick to one thing and become really good at it. Being 20% good at a lot of things won't get you the success you desire. Get 70,80,90% good at one thing and you will see success. ppc, ppv, seo all work - choose one and focus solely on it. Best of luck.
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  • Profile picture of the author Kenster
    In my experience the main difference between the people making money and not are these. And this is not to say that you fit any of these generalizations by any means.

    1. Optimizing. Most people dont realize that a majority of campaigns will start off as failures, particularly in the paid space. Most will stay that way, but the point is finding those campaigns that are on the brink of breaking even. Thats when its time to just go mad optimizing the campaign. Many people know this but dont actually do it because optimizing and split testing is a lot of work. This is the hardest part of any campaign is going through multiple split tests and constantly optimizing. Slowly, it should bring your campaign into the black and then as you continually optimize, it should go up from there. Many people do an initial split test of landing pages and thats it.

    2. Budget: Its easy to say that budget is a main factor in peoples success but I personally dont really think it is. Many people who start out with a lot of money blow it on software and just throw money every which way trying to strike gold. Before they know it they are in the hole by x dollars and then assume CPA marketing just doesnt work so they quit. Many people who do well in CPA actually came from no budget or very little budget. This forces them to put in the time to test and optimize even more carefully.

    Luck/Testing Different Things: Luck also plays a little role. But I personally put little emphasis on luck. I make my own luck. I come up with insane ideas all the time and test every single one of those out. People can call me lucky all day long but if you test enough ideas out, eventually you will see potential in one and then just run with it. I am a huge fan of testing new things out. This DOESNT mean jumping around from method to method, this means trying new things within whatever you are doing. Luck plays a small role, but you can increase your chances of getting lucky if you keep trying new things.

    my opinion
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  • Profile picture of the author Jay092
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    • Profile picture of the author Kenster
      Originally Posted by Jay092 View Post

      Hey Kenster,

      How did you actually start with CPA? Like, what methods did you first use?

      Are you now focusing most of your efforts on paid traffic?

      Hey Jay,

      When I started I made a decent amount of money with offline marketing. I would literally split my time half offline literally flyering neighborhoods, parking garages, transporations hubs, etc for free trial offers and some clickbank stuff. It was a lot of work but the payout was really good (at the time). The other half of my time was spent trying a million things out online. I was making okay money doing bum methods like working forums, chat rooms, free classifieds, but even that took a while to get the hang of.

      I did PPC and lost money but kept at it on a smaller scale with the money I was making online. Mostly everything online I wasn't very good at but learned and learned and everything started to fit together as I learned more and more. Then I hit some big campaigns that gave me some extra money to play with/invest with. Everything starts to make sense once you find your personal groove.
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      • Profile picture of the author learnmore
        Hi Kenster,
        I have been planning on offline promotion of CPA and clickbank products...more inclined toward highy paying CPA though..

        What was the success rate of passing out flyers at a train station or bus stop? I see sometimes newspapers inserts lying around everywhere in my daily commute and always think that people just throw a lot of them into trash.

        Wouldn't it make more sense to promote an offer that pays on a recurring basis? This way you don't have to do the work repeatedly and get a new sale every time.

        Pennysavers and those kind of magazines offer cheap ad rates, I may hit them up.

        Thanks for your replies. you are definitely contributing a lot here.. Thanks once again for being a supportive and valuable member.
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        • Profile picture of the author Kenster
          Originally Posted by learnmore View Post

          Hi Kenster,
          I have been planning on offline promotion of CPA and clickbank products...more inclined toward highy paying CPA though..

          What was the success rate of passing out flyers at a train station or bus stop? I see sometimes newspapers inserts lying around everywhere in my daily commute and always think that people just throw a lot of them into trash.

          Wouldn't it make more sense to promote an offer that pays on a recurring basis? This way you don't have to do the work repeatedly and get a new sale every time.

          Pennysavers and those kind of magazines offer cheap ad rates, I may hit them up.

          Thanks for your replies. you are definitely contributing a lot here.. Thanks once again for being a supportive and valuable member.


          Hey buddy. I dont recall exactly what my conversion ratio was when I did offline, but it wasn't that great and it was a lot of work, BUT it was a good way for me to make a good amount of money not having to know anything technical and not having any competition at all.

          I would pass our many hundreds of flyers in a weekend (perhaps even 1000) but the money was pretty darn good despite the sweat and toil. At $40 for a trial offer (admittedly, I wouldnt promote now some of the offers I promoted in the past) get 30 sign ups out of those 1000 flyers in a weekend and thats over a grand.


          As for pennysavers and periodicals, if you can negotiate a good price, it can be a fantastic opportunity, and then ability to easily scale a good offline ad is easy!



          As per the difference between those who are successful and those who arent, in my opinion, is simply persistence and action. It really takes the kind of person who is willing to fail 50 times in a row but still has the same enthusiasm and persistence to keep going...THATS the person who is likely to do very well in this industry. Most things most people do, most new methods, new ideas, new campaigns, utterly fail. Most things I do fail. But be persistent and when you find that one thing that hits, then its all about scaling, repeating, building, growing, and thats where the money is.

          But you must get up time after time of getting knocked down. Too many people put their heads down in shame after just one or just a couple failed ideas.
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          • Profile picture of the author learnmore
            Thanks Ken for sharing your experience. Offline definitely looks like a good way to get started. The offers you alluded to in your post, were they some sort of rebill/health offers? I would think that weight loss CPA offers could do pretty well for general public and has wide appeal. Another way to setup offline promotion would be to have to rent/purchase 1800 number and have either a recorded message that asks them to leave their name and email address. Not sure if this is putting roadblocks in their way and will reduce the response rate.
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  • Profile picture of the author skygod
    I think for my success, I actually bought a BMW 6 series with my full-time online business, I think start with small let's say $20 profits a day and generally it'll increase double and double over time.

    You need a good web designers for your landing page, without that i don't think there's gonna be much success.
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  • Profile picture of the author Yogi Golle
    Specializing on one area that is your passion makes a bid difference over time. You passion will show.
    In addition if you can find a successful marketer that will mentor you and even more ideal hold you accountable, then you have some thing of great value.

    How do you find a mentor? Talk to many people (here on the forum and otherwise), and ask,ask,ask , be persistent. Often if you keep persevering, you come to certain milestones where you get these AHA moments. Something clicks and you have a break through. If you tell keep pressing on realizing that these moments do come and that ups and downs along the way are normal, you will find yourself down the road as someone who has become a successful marketer.

    Regards
    Yogi

    Originally Posted by hinduhead View Post

    i am running out of options, ive been in game for about 6 months, ive tried ppc,ppv,seo...

    now what i have learned is these last 6 months is amazing, but still no consistent results.

    i believe if others can do, then it is very achievable, but i have not found anything that can bring in consistent income, i can have a few good days, but nothing consistent.

    i hear of so many making full time income? what am i not doing or doing that is different from others success?

    what sets the success apart from majority? work ethic (more testing), more money then others (bigger budget), smarter (more experienced) ?
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  • Profile picture of the author williamrs
    6 months? It's not all that bad. I needed 2 years to make my first buck online.

    It seems that you (and most beginners) have the same problem I used to have: FOCUS. You said that you have tried PPC, PPV, SEO, etc in 6 months. If I had to bet I would say that you haven't really tried them. None of them.

    You will never master a system with 2 or 3 campaigns, unless you're a genius. If you want to make money with SEO, then put 100% of your focus on SEO. Buy one or 2 good courses about search engine optimization (if you haven't already) and take action. Build one site, 2 sites, 3 sites... and keep going until you make money!

    I just could make money when I stopped everything that I was doing and created an action plan 100% focused on one specific system (in my case, it was related to article marketing). Of course, as my business grew I started using other systems. However, it's nearly impossible to make money online if you try a new system every week.

    So this is the best advice I can give you: choose something and stick at it until you make money.


    William
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  • Profile picture of the author hinduhead
    thanks for comments all, good stuff

    i agree with everyone of the responses, this is a huge problem of mine, (spreading myself to thin) with traffic sources & offer types (verticals).

    it seems we have a conflicting belief throughout the community, some say diversify & some say focus on one. its ultimately my decision, but it is a tough decision.

    the main thing im after is consistency, which is kind of hard in this ever changing industry.

    ill get to work creating a action plan.

    cheers
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    • Profile picture of the author williamrs
      Originally Posted by hinduhead View Post

      thanks for comments all, good stuff

      i agree with everyone of the responses, this is a huge problem of mine, (spreading myself to thin) with traffic sources & offer types (verticals).

      it seems we have a conflicting belief throughout the community, some say diversify & some say focus on one. its ultimately my decision, but it is a tough decision.

      the main thing im after is consistency, which is kind of hard in this ever changing industry.

      ill get to work creating a action plan.

      cheers
      Stick at one thing or diversify, which is correct? Both.

      When you are just starting you want to stick on one specific system. This is the only way you have to start making some money online. However, as your business grow you will want to diversify your streams of income for 2 reasons:

      1) Make more money
      2) Don't put all your eggs in one basket

      If you're not making money yet, don't worry about diversification, put all your focus on something and stick at it.

      For example, let's say that you want to make money with CPA and PPC. So you can choose one type of offer (e.g. short form submits), one or 2 verticals (e.g. dating and mobile) and one or 2 traffic sources (e.g. Google CN & Facebook). That's great. Now, collect as much information as you can about:

      1. Google content network
      2. Advertising on Facebook
      3. Promoting dating offers
      4. Promoting mobile offers
      5. CPA & PPC
      etc...

      Don't start reading stuff about SEO, getting your articles to Google's first page for keywords with X competitors, etc... You don't care about it, article marketing and seo are not part of your action plan.

      After you start making money with your initial plan you can start expanding it. For example, you can start promoting offers in the health niche, create a few campaigns to promote free trials, add more traffic sources to your campaigns (e.g. Yahoo!, Bing, Bidvertiser), etc...

      Later, you may want to start doing some SEO for your best campaigns (now you already know that those offers do convert), hire a writer to create articles, etc...

      Do you see? You start focusing on one thing, but as your business grows you expand your possibilities.


      William
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  • Profile picture of the author TE2
    Originally Posted by hinduhead View Post

    i am running out of options, ive been in game for about 6 months, ive tried ppc,ppv,seo...

    now what i have learned is these last 6 months is amazing, but still no consistent results.

    i believe if others can do, then it is very achievable, but i have not found anything that can bring in consistent income, i can have a few good days, but nothing consistent.

    i hear of so many making full time income? what am i not doing or doing that is different from others success?

    what sets the success apart from majority? work ethic (more testing), more money then others (bigger budget), smarter (more experienced) ?
    See my "Wealth Formula" blog post

    http://www.warriorforum.com/blogs/te...h-formula.html

    Note the part about "Consistent Action"

    Regards,

    John
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    • Profile picture of the author KC-Coop
      The biggest difference between those that are making a full time income and those who are not is consistent focus. You have to make sure that each and every day you are working on something to improve your sites, improve your landers, and improve your campaigns.

      If you have a budget to burn then I would pick either PPC or PPV and run with it. If you don't have at least $2000 that you can spend on testing either of those then stick with SEO until you have some consistent daily profits.

      The easiest way to get started with SEO is to create a blog in a niche that you love - or create several smaller keyword oriented blogs. It's your choice between one authority blog or several affiliate type blogs.

      Pick a topic and run with it - don't diversify to a ton of different places until you have one that is actually making you money. You can't diversify $0.
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      • Profile picture of the author TE2
        Originally Posted by KC-Coop View Post

        The biggest difference between those that are making a full time income and those who are not is consistent focus. You have to make sure that each and every day you are working on something to improve your sites, improve your landers, and improve your campaigns.

        If you have a budget to burn then I would pick either PPC or PPV and run with it. If you don't have at least $2000 that you can spend on testing either of those then stick with SEO until you have some consistent daily profits.

        The easiest way to get started with SEO is to create a blog in a niche that you love - or create several smaller keyword oriented blogs. It's your choice between one authority blog or several affiliate type blogs.

        Pick a topic and run with it - don't diversify to a ton of different places until you have one that is actually making you money. You can't diversify $0.

        I fully concur - this is some of the best advice that I have read in a long time.


        Regards,

        john
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  • Profile picture of the author bravo75
    If Kenster doesn't motivate ya, nobody will.
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  • Profile picture of the author ChrisBa
    Originally Posted by hinduhead View Post

    i am running out of options, ive been in game for about 6 months, ive tried ppc,ppv,seo...

    now what i have learned is these last 6 months is amazing, but still no consistent results.

    i believe if others can do, then it is very achievable, but i have not found anything that can bring in consistent income, i can have a few good days, but nothing consistent.

    i hear of so many making full time income? what am i not doing or doing that is different from others success?

    what sets the success apart from majority? work ethic (more testing), more money then others (bigger budget), smarter (more experienced) ?
    sounds like you've been bouncing around too much, try focusing on one thing - once you master it, then move on
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  • Profile picture of the author TJComer02
    The fact is this, guys who make money don't have to particularly be SO much more skilled and talented than all the normal people who earn nothing, it's that they have some qualities that all rich people have, whether they're in IM or not. As I have made some progress in certain areas, I realize that it takes alot more than being smart. There are thousands of guys with IQ's over 140 that are losers, because they don't have what it takes. Either you have what it takes or you don't. The fact is there's really talented individuals who will NEVER make money because they're dreamers and they don't do anything about it. Don't be afraid to fail. Because you MUST fail in order to achieve success, and to be quite honest, CPA isn't like a regular business, you can literally go from broke to a millionaire in a few months, but you must get to that point, and where most stop is WAY before that point. This is bringing back memories from a few weeks ago. This one guy was getting lessons from me on some different ways to make money with CPA, and he kept asking me questions that gave his personality away. I knew he was probably really smart, but I knew he'd never even make a dime online, because he was weak minded and scared. This isn't for everybody, but the internet is successful if you're the type of person. Were you on a path to riches in your offline quest for wealth? I think once you learn what is needed, the attitude that rich people have will translate into success in whatever they pursue.
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    • Profile picture of the author Kenster
      Originally Posted by TJComer02 View Post

      The fact is this, guys who make money don't have to particularly be SO much more skilled and talented than all the normal people who earn nothing, it's that they have some qualities that all rich people have, whether they're in IM or not. As I have made some progress in certain areas, I realize that it takes alot more than being smart. There are thousands of guys with IQ's over 140 that are losers, because they don't have what it takes. Either you have what it takes or you don't. The fact is there's really talented individuals who will NEVER make money because they're dreamers and they don't do anything about it. Don't be afraid to fail. Because you MUST fail in order to achieve success, and to be quite honest, CPA isn't like a regular business, you can literally go from broke to a millionaire in a few months, but you must get to that point, and where most stop is WAY before that point. This is bringing back memories from a few weeks ago. This one guy was getting lessons from me on some different ways to make money with CPA, and he kept asking me questions that gave his personality away. I knew he was probably really smart, but I knew he'd never even make a dime online, because he was weak minded and scared. This isn't for everybody, but the internet is successful if you're the type of person. Were you on a path to riches in your offline quest for wealth? I think once you learn what is needed, the attitude that rich people have will translate into success in whatever they pursue.

      This is soo true. In fact, most of the people I know that do well with CPA (including myself) arent the smartest when it comes to internet marketing. You dont need to be super technical, its mostly about the soft skills, the personality, the work ethic, the persistence, and determination somebody has....these are the qualities that seperate the money makers from the money wishers.

      The other trick is to just focus on a few things to get good at. If you are good at the marketing side of CPA, then focus on maximizing that skill. If you suck at SEO (like me) just try and learn what you need to know to get by and thats it, that is fine. If you eventually get the money, you can hire somebody or outsource it! But focus on what you are good at.
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  • Profile picture of the author Globe_Trotter13
    Awesome info and tips on this thread as well. Ken, your example is pure inspiration and your tips are pure gold, thanks for sharing those. Making over a K in a weekend, that's pretty damn good ROI. TJ, excellent post as well. Guys, keep the awesome tips coming.
    I learn every day more and more from this outstanding forum.

    Cheers,

    Payman.
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  • Profile picture of the author jacobprunes
    A newbie here and still looking for fresh IM ideas and tips. The comments & suggestions from you guys were really awesome.
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  • Profile picture of the author Cash37
    Originally Posted by hinduhead View Post

    what sets the success apart from majority? work ethic (more testing), more money then others (bigger budget), smarter (more experienced) ?
    All of these help but I can tell you that the best thing to do is try as many random ideas as possible, every month. Then when you find one that hits, throw as much of the same kind of traffic you can buy at it.
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    • Profile picture of the author Kenster
      Originally Posted by Cash37 View Post

      All of these help but I can tell you that the best thing to do is try as many random ideas as possible, every month. Then when you find one that hits, throw as much of the same kind of traffic you can buy at it.

      I agree. Its a good idea to stay focused in one area, but try tons of methods within that area.

      Just try things, even if they seem completely idiotic, just try it. You would laugh your pants off at some of the ideas I have come up with. 98% of them failed, but the winners were glorious!
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  • Profile picture of the author eugenedm
    why don't you just create your own product. It could be a video course, audio, or an e-book. All you has to do is find the wanted niche and you should be ready to rock 'n roll
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    • Profile picture of the author Kenster
      Originally Posted by eugenedm View Post

      why don't you just create your own product. It could be a video course, audio, or an e-book. All you has to do is find the wanted niche and you should be ready to rock 'n roll

      This is fine if you know enough about a given area to help teach others. If you dont know anything about CPA, then dont come up with a CPA product...its not fair for anybody. If you dont know about PPC, dont make a book about PPC, etc

      Product creation is one of many many ways to make money online!
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