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How do you know then your network is scrubbing your leads?

by EdwardDennis
26 replies
Hi all,

I think the title is quite explanatory. How do you know when your network is scrubbing your hard-earned lead? Thanks guys.

Regards,

Edward
#leads #network #scrubbing
  • Profile picture of the author williamrs
    The best way to know if you are getting scrubbed is by rotating links between 2 or more networks. So if your conversion rate is much lower with a specific network it may indicate that they are scrubbing you.


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  • Profile picture of the author EdwardDennis
    Thanks guys, it helps a lot!
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  • Profile picture of the author EdwardDennis
    Seems like there's now way to know whether my network is scrubbing or not, since the offer is only available in that network. So sad.
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  • Profile picture of the author jeffrey73
    Originally Posted by EdwardDennis View Post

    Hi all,

    I think the title is quite explanatory. How do you know when your network is scrubbing your hard-earned lead? Thanks guys.

    Regards,

    Edward
    Try staying away from email submits and/or 13-20 year olds and you should be just fine!
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    • Profile picture of the author SledgeHammer
      My 2 cents...

      You can also use any web analytics to keep track of the statistics.
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      Mithun on the Web
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    • Profile picture of the author EdwardDennis
      Originally Posted by jeffrey73 View Post

      Try staying away from email submits and/or 13-20 year olds and you should be just fine!
      I'm not promoting email submits. The offer payout is above $20. I would have an extra $ 300, if the leads were not "scrubbed"
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      • Profile picture of the author Cash37
        Originally Posted by EdwardDennis View Post

        I'm not promoting email submits. The offer payout is above $20. I would have an extra $ 300, if the leads were not "scrubbed"
        Call your AM and ask if your leads are backing out. If he cannot tell you... Id ask him to close my account right after that.
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        • Profile picture of the author bigbrian
          Usually, and I say "usually", networks won't shave your leads and if they are then they are just setting themselves up for failure. The network wants your EPC to be high and mighty that way you keep driving traffic to the offer.

          It's normally the advertiser that shaves your leads and quite honestly from working on the advertiser's side of the house for a while it's due to your lead quality. If they are paying you $50 per conversion, you send them 100 conversions, and 60 of them don't generate revenue for them, they have to recoup those 60 that didn't generate revenue for them. At that point they will identify your AffiliateID and scrub you accordingly.

          If you are sending the offer quality leads your shave should be low to minimal on most offers. As someone else mentioned, try and split test the offer amongst a couple networks and see what network yields the highest EPC. Also make sure to run your tracking through tracking202 or similar so you can cross-reference the amount of clicks you are getting compared to what the network is showing - some "less than optimal" networks might shave the click count so the EPC "appears" higher.

          It all boils down to Tracking... Tracking... Tracking... Track everything and then track some more. You will never "ultimately" know if a network/advertiser is shaving you but if you track things enough it will give you a good baseline to give you the "gut feeling" if they are shaving you.

          Brian
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          • Profile picture of the author EdwardDennis
            Originally Posted by bigbrian View Post

            Usually, and I say "usually", networks won't shave your leads and if they are then they are just setting themselves up for failure. The network wants your EPC to be high and mighty that way you keep driving traffic to the offer.

            It's normally the advertiser that shaves your leads and quite honestly from working on the advertiser's side of the house for a while it's due to your lead quality. If they are paying you $50 per conversion, you send them 100 conversions, and 60 of them don't generate revenue for them, they have to recoup those 60 that didn't generate revenue for them. At that point they will identify your AffiliateID and scrub you accordingly.

            If you are sending the offer quality leads your shave should be low to minimal on most offers. As someone else mentioned, try and split test the offer amongst a couple networks and see what network yields the highest EPC. Also make sure to run your tracking through tracking202 or similar so you can cross-reference the amount of clicks you are getting compared to what the network is showing - some "less than optimal" networks might shave the click count so the EPC "appears" higher.

            It all boils down to Tracking... Tracking... Tracking... Track everything and then track some more. You will never "ultimately" know if a network/advertiser is shaving you but if you track things enough it will give you a good baseline to give you the "gut feeling" if they are shaving you.

            Brian
            That's what I thought. If they were scrubbing my leads, and at the end it turned out not profitable enough for me due to the "Scrubbing", I would simply stop promoting the offer. If they were scrubbing because of bad traffic quality, then I should stop spending money on Lead Impact.

            I was thinking about joining TV. I'm sorry if my question is off the topic, but does anyone know whether TV allows alternative size instead of their default pop up window?

            Just an update, t202 shows 3 conversion, network shows NIL!

            Regards,

            Edward
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            • Profile picture of the author bigbrian
              @EdwardDennis - Contact your network about those conversions. They should be able to check with the advertiser and/or they should be receiving reports. Provide your network with as much information as possible so they can do the research on their side.

              As for your question on TV. No, I don't think there is a sizing option for the pop, but I could be wrong since it has been a few years since I purchased traffic from them.

              Brian
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        • Profile picture of the author mkrongel
          Banned
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          • Profile picture of the author Cash37
            Originally Posted by mkrongel View Post

            Usually unless youre doing sizable volume (this is all relative, a network doing 10k a day might think 1K is sizable while a network doing 300K a day might think only 10K is sizable) or you have a really good relationship with your AM, your AM really wont know how youre backing out, The sales people working with the client might know and sometimes advertisers fail to monitor their own numbers and dont tell the networks or pubs how they are doing.

            Regarding scrubbing. A network with a long term business model and support isnt going to scrub someone, its just bad business, its a short term mindset. Since i run a network i want you to know how each traffic source/keyword/ad is backing out for your media placements, by scrubbing the network could be costing itself money by scrubbing one ad or one placement and causing it to be unprofitable thus causing the affiliate to turn that placement off lowering the volume, so now you scrub more from whats left causing the next ad/traffic source, etc.. to be turned off due to being unprofitable. Eventually theres no traffic left. Also networks who broker offers from other networks usually see big amounts of pixel fall off, its not scrubbing but due to the extra layer in the pixel (the broker network has their pixel placed on the other networks offer along with 10's or 100's of other pubs. priority to fire the pixel will be with the network with the direct deal then the sub network, if the user navigates from the thank you page to fast it can cause the broker network not to fire its pixel creating this pixel fall off. I have seen this be as much as 40%, its how someone can offer you 95% payout

            Then you have advertiser scrubbing. Not all advertisers scrub and usually offers hit with the most fraud/BH techniques will see the most scrubbing on the advertiser side, they scrub because they feel they are being cheated why not cheat back. You also have validation on the advertiser end which can feel like a scrub, they may check for bad email, phones, etc.. IP look up then tracing it back to the address entered, for example an IP in Orlando FL should not be saying its address is Miami FL since the two areas are 100 miles apart. This works 98% of the time and the other 2% its wrong but this is another reason why you may see "scrubbing" if a lead gen offer they may turn their data validation higher after calling the leads if their contacts arent good.

            split testing is a good way to verify. if the offer youre running is exclusive all that matters is youre making money running it and its stable
            I dont know how you guys currently do it as Ive been locked out my account for about a year now, but the networks I run with now can tell me how my leads are doing for the advertiser. Thats no disrespect, maybe my AMs are just really good, I dunno.
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      • Profile picture of the author jeffrey73
        Originally Posted by EdwardDennis View Post

        I'm not promoting email submits. The offer payout is above $20. I would have an extra $ 300, if the leads were not "scrubbed"
        If the traffic isn't backing out for them, they will definitely scrub. The network could also be "shaving", you never know. That's what sucks about this CPA business.
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  • Profile picture of the author harro1
    i know some credit report merchants who scrub a lot, first day you will get 20 leads in 1000 clicks(from ppv) other day 0 leads with 2000 clicks, this shows how much scrubbing happens in cpa.
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  • Profile picture of the author ChrisBa
    Originally Posted by EdwardDennis View Post

    Hi all,

    I think the title is quite explanatory. How do you know when your network is scrubbing your hard-earned lead? Thanks guys.

    Regards,

    Edward
    Split test. Find another network with the same offer and split half the leads with both of them
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  • Profile picture of the author tpw
    I think they all scrub... It is simply a matter of how hard...
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  • Profile picture of the author cutequotes
    i think that all the netwroks shaves leads from time to time.
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    • Profile picture of the author SledgeHammer
      Why the network wants to scrub unless they wants to steal someone's bread ?

      I'm wondering why they need to scrub as along as the affiliates are converting ?
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      • Profile picture of the author bigbrian
        Any network that shaves leads/conversions should reach around with their right foot and just kick themselves in the rear end - because ultimately that is what they are doing anyhow.

        If Network #1 is shaving then then the affiliate is going to see a lower EPC on their traffic. If the affiliate is smart they would pickup on this and test the offer on another network (we will call this Network #2) and it's possible they will see higher EPC on Network #2. Now at this point where do you think the affiliate is going to run their traffic - Network #2.

        So Network #1 is now out of the picture for the traffic/conversions the affiliate was generating. Thus why Network #1 should start kicking themselves repeatedly.

        Brian
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        • Profile picture of the author VinceV
          Originally Posted by bigbrian View Post

          Any network that shaves leads/conversions should reach around with their right foot and just kick themselves in the rear end - because ultimately that is what they are doing anyhow.

          If Network #1 is shaving then then the affiliate is going to see a lower EPC on their traffic. If the affiliate is smart they would pickup on this and test the offer on another network (we will call this Network #2) and it's possible they will see higher EPC on Network #2. Now at this point where do you think the affiliate is going to run their traffic - Network #2.

          So Network #1 is now out of the picture for the traffic/conversions the affiliate was generating. Thus why Network #1 should start kicking themselves repeatedly.

          Brian

          I agree completely with you - And it just plain unethical!
          There is nothing more to say about this - UNETHICAL! - punto!

          Best Regards
          Vince
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  • Profile picture of the author umaar.k
    your tracking 202 conversion image pixel on thankyou landing page, fires when your reffrer complete an desire action. compare your t202 conversion reporting and network conversion reporting, if you see a big freakin difference than it looks like the advertiser have shaved your leads.

    then you should call your aff manager and ask him about these differences, then all you have to judge by his given answer.
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  • Profile picture of the author dave18
    it does help to look at the network conversion rate
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  • Profile picture of the author Jena2Go
    To me it makes no sense for a network to scrub.. some advertisers scrub because it balances out the bad leads that they get, but as a network we've never scrubbed. In addition to that, the network should know if the advertiser is going to scrub and how much. Its part of bringing in the offer.. you find out their scrub.

    I personally am transparent with my pubs if they ask me if the advertiser is scrubbing.. I'll say yes, 10%, if thats how much it is. Not every advertiser will scrub, but it DEFINITELY happens and it sucks. I don't think a network should try and screw you by scrubbing though, and after hearing about some networks that do, I'm happy I work where I do.

    I guess the only advice I can say is to ask your AM.. Like Cash37 said.. if your AM can't give you a straight up answer then I'd probably try another network.. for the most part we can all get the offers you need.

    Jena
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