Noah Fleming

Which is also one big affiliate promotion.

But I really like David and respect him for putting this out there.
It's certainly a more creative way to sell.

RC7000

Have you watched the video and read through the resources?

worldnet

For those of you thinking you will get a refund, here's an except I picked up from Jerry West's blog..

"you have to test two campaigns per day for 12 weeks. That’s 120 campaigns. If you properly test each campaign with $100 in PPC, that’s $12k you are throwing down to get back $2500."

The other point I like to make is if he is making so much money, then why is he wanting to open the doors to thousands of others, thereby creating more competition for himself.

And my last point is, if he would have said... this course is not for newbies, you need a certain amount of online marketing and ppc experience to be successful, then I dont think so many would be saying what they are.

Instead, many newebies will get this course and not only lose out on their 2 grand but who knows how much in PPC costs.

Van

nobodyspecial

I've got the try the complete 12 week course money back guarantee ... if you bought before the guarantee was changed, then you do, too.

If they don't honor that refund if requested, American Express will on their behalf

RC7000

This gets funnier - these guys were warned....

mikewa

My concern is that in the sales letter I read dated Dec 11 2008, I understood the guarantee to be 12 weeks unless they are putting all 12 weeks info on the website during the first 30 days:-

A 100% Money-Back Guarantee #1!
After you complete this 12 week training course, if you don't feel it was worth every single penny and more of your under $2,000 investment, I will refund every give you all your money back with absolutely no strings attached.

The current sales letter has now has the same 30 day guarantee
that is on the website and I would hope the the "big names" who endorsed this program would be a little concerned too at Aymen trying to change the terms of the guarantee!

I always keep a copy of the sales letter when I purchase something so come on, Aymen, stick by your original guarantee!

EliteAffiliate

Amazing that they send their emails to only a partial amount of their list. I'm only receiving about half of these.

Then why the HECK didn't they wait until Jan. to launch and take people's money? Oh, they just NOW realized it was the holidays? It is a BS reason anyways as they are saying they are closing their doors today. People can go at their own pace, they would not of signed up if they couldn't actually get into the content and lessons would they. It should be self-paced. I don't need 3-4 months to learn this stuff. Give me a week. Do live coaching weekly after the main content is learned, fine. But this is stupid crazy!

And changing the guarantee like that? It's already unethical that they are holding people's money prior to actually starting the program when they promised it would start right away in the sales letter and messages. Bait and Switch. And now the bait and switch on the guarantee. It's not why I signed up, but the guarantee is why I took the RISK to sign up for it. Now they are saying everything they told us prior to getting us to hand over our money was bullshit, now that they have the money. Should I keep believing them? Now it is starting Jan. 5th, but is it really? Will Jan. 5th come around and then they will say - oh well - now the official start date is really Feb. 5th - sorry! Read the blog for updates! Heee!

And with this 30 day guarantee, that is BS now too. What a way to quadruple their refund rate and lose money they had from willing customers. They may think it is better for them, but it just makes more people nervous about even giving the program a chance because there is no guarantee if they do and it doesn't work that their investment is covered now. Esp. with the way they drip drizzle out the content so slowly. I signed up on Dec. 10th - so 30 days of the window to ask for a refund would be Jan. 9th - only 5 DAYS into the program and only after being able to view 1 lousy beginner video on it. So, now it comes down to, do I really want to take that chance and risk that the rest of the content and weeks will be good enough? That's not even enough time to implement and test out the tiny bit of tips they drizzle out in the first week! This is stupid. They might as well of not offered a guarantee at all! And what happens to the people who try to rely on the 12 week $500 extra guarantee, do their campaigns daily and follow along, and then when the time comes, they say - sorry, we don't think you qualify for the refund - should of gotten out in the first week! It's not really a guarantee when it is totally up to their discretion, and of course they have no interest in agreeing that it qualifies, why would they. Also, if someone is making campaigns and losing money, and not making even 2k back from those campaigns, why would they keep putting more money into it for 12 whole weeks just to get $500 back, when they are losing more by spending it on campaigns that are not making them any money back in the first place! A 30 day money back guarantee only makes sense on a product that A) is given to you right away after buying it and B) is the full product for you to review, not just 1/12th of it. If I have the full product for 30 days it is plenty of time to review it, this is not the case in this program however, so it comes back down to taking the risk with no guarantee at all basically. Just a sneak preview of their 1st video in Jan., all while loaning them 2k in the meantime over the holidays, for that peak.

Anyways, they are still not answering any questions in support. They are wasting their time with blank non-answers to the emails. I asked them specially for a hard calendar date when the cutoff is for the guarantee and this is what they replied with - note that the answer to that question is NOT on their blog in first place! They refuse to answer the question!

"Thanks for your patience for updates

please visit our blog at:

Dave"

Noah Fleming

Also, assuming they took 700 people into the course.

And everyone followed the above model, and they all asked for a refund, which had to be verified by allowing Aymen and his team access to your accounts, you just did them about 8.5 million in testing for campaigns that dont convert :-)

Eric Graudins

Well done Noah,
I thought that I was the only one so cynical as to think of stuff like that.

Cheers, Eric G.

The biggest benefit of the internet is that almost everything can be automated.
The biggest curse of the internet is that almost everything can be automated.

richfit

If you go into your campaign applying the "math" to each offer right off the bat, you should have profitable campaigns. This is entirely a "math" game. Using the formula and the principles will make you wealthy.

Again they want you to succeed, they don't want you to spend $2k and then refund I can guarantee you that.

PerfectFunnelSystem.com - Enter to WIN a Brand NEW Kindle Fire + Download My Report titled, "11 Irresistible Money Magnets To Generate More Leads For Your Business!"

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mikep791

Well at this point I'm happy with what I see. You have to pay attention to the videos closely. The bonus is the 13th month plus additional bonuses as we progress. The course unfolds over time because the content of the business changes constantly. So that's a plus.

Like I said I have no regrets right now. We'll see once the course gets going.

Mike

The 13th Warrior

For what they charge, and the big, fat promises they made and $2000+ of peoples hard earned dough in this economy, coupled with a very confusing launch and communication,he should gladly overwork, nice guy or not.

Its funny how FAST companies can take your money, but cannot duplicate that seamless speed at giving it back to you.

Yeah, we'll quickly and trouble-free like, with no problem take your money faster than the speed of light, but if there is something you should know, we'll tell you AFTER your cash is safely in OUR account, bearing interest.

Now, depending on how bad I want or need the product, if AFTER I order it and get a confirmation that they charged me and my order has been recieved BUT they notify me AFTER they take my money that it is on back-order, I badger the communication and write a letter on their slimy policy while asking for a refund, this should have been clearly stated BEFORE charging me.

I see some ethical businesses that once you put your order thru and there is a back-order, the order WILL NOT go thru and they inform you why.

Then they say come back and try again when supplies are stocked.

This is above-board business practices.

The 13 th Warrior

The 13th Warrior

$2,000 for how many orders?

With the 30 day money back guarantee, I wonder how much interest they could make on an interest bearing account for that month?

What would that profit pay for?

The 13 th Warrior

Phnx

Looks like they've buggered up the timing from profiting from the interest on the deposits too - I hear US banks have just dropped their interest rates to zero percent.

Rumour is our banks will be doing the same soon.

So they won't be profiting in that way.

The 13th Warrior

I like it when people get pissed in this way.

More people in the "actual" trenches and in the know should be pissed off....that way, we get some sobering, real world information and real world daily day-in day-out practises, without the hype, B.S., and the "never revealed before ancient chinese secret that has been kept hidden for 50,000 years" type of 1930's copywriting.

A righteous piss-fest, Harvey.

The 13 th Warrior

Phnx

Dude they'd have a hard time finding such an account......

US slashes interest rates to new zero-0.25% range - Business News, Business - The Independent

Tenzo

That article is about the Federal Reserve cutting the interest rate that banks pay to borrow money from reserve banks-not the interest rate that banks pay to account holders.

Regards,
Kevin

Roses are planted where thorns grow,
And on the barren heath
Sing the honey bees.
–”The Marriage of Heaven and Hell,” William Blake

Phnx

I know, but aren't you forgetting high street banks are also strapped for cash? You'll be hard pressed to find any that will pay a rate worth getting excited about. These days they are more about getting tax payers to give them money, rather than the other way around.

Whatever the AC peeps are doing (not a whole lot by the look of things) I seriously doubt they'll be racking up any profits from 'interest' payments from those stored funds.

In all matters of opinion, our adversaries are insane. ~ Oscar Wilde (1854 - 1900)

Easy Weight Loss

Jake_Marley

I have been watching the chaos quietly from the sidelines.

Yes, I have purchased the product.

What were my personal expectations to begin with?

Simple... To pay $2000 to take a close look at the business model of someone consistently banking mid to high five figures each and every day.

With that said, I agree that this launch has gone wrong on many levels.

What I find even more interesting than Aymen botching his own "coming out party", is that those associated with this launch (who are no doubt reading this thread) have done nothing to help right the ship.

Shame on each and everyone of you. I have seen mail still going out from some of them promoting this train wreck.

Sooo what is the right thing to do?

LISTEN CLEARLY Aymen!!!

1.Honor the original Guarantee! Extend the Guarantee to the completion of the course. PERIOD! Which at the rate your going now could possibly extend through the end of 2009.

2. STOP promoting the course and close the doors. Obviously you are struggling to manage what you have created. Close the doors now and respectfully honor those that have already paid you both with their credit card and their trust.

3. HONOR YOUR WORD! When and how training will be held is a prime example. Thus far you have shown that you have little to no respect for anyone's time.

Honestly it is not the launch challenges that you have experienced that bother me most. I personally know and understand that @#$% happens! It is your lake of effort to quickly make things right.

You still have an opportunity to make things right. Please do so.

>
>

Well now that I have that out of the way...

Happy Holidays fellow Warriors! May you take some time to step away from the screen and spend it with those that matter most to you.

Peace & Prosperity

'Shake-n-Bake' Jake

The 13th Warrior

Sounds like common business sense practices 101 to me.

Why is this so difficult to implement?

Isn't rule Number 1 to take care of PAYING customers, to THEIR satisfaction?

The 13 th Warrior

danhughes

seorundown already answered this but just in case you missed it his site is SEO Revolution - Tested SEO Advice from Jerry West - I am not an affilaite of his at all.... in fact, I give him money, lol. Seriously, he is as good at real life affiliate marketing as it gets. Him and maybe one or two others.

The 13th Warrior

Thanks.

Who are the two others? If you don't want to say here, PM. Thanks

The 13 th Warrior

mido

It seems to me that some want to SEE the whole course for free and then request refund after 12 weeks, which usually happens in public forums.

Successful people wouldn’t be complaining all day long or be even concerned about money back guarantee. They have faith and mindset to Succeed.

If your mind is focused all the time on money back guarantee, you will fail.

30 days from January 5, should be long enough for anybody honest to make their mind and figure out if this is for him or not.

And guarantee option 2, is fair for those who really tried hard, launched several campaigns every day, proved it and failed.

If you don’t or can’t launch at least 2 campaigns per day, it is not for you, so don’t buy it or get your refund now.

In our private forum successful people are lunching from 5 to 40 campaigns per day and some are making from $30k to over $100k a month.
It is not for everybody.

harith88

I have read the report and like it very much..the report really uncover the truth about how easy it is to make money..

How To Make $100 In 24 Hours
Get Your Free Report Now!

M3C

You're the perfect customer for this product.

momo4444

I'm sure they will be able to help you get accepted. Other CPA courses tell you how
to answer the questions and give you url's to use if you do not have your own site
up yet.

M3C

I really don't get how people can't get into CPA networks, it's very strange, post phone call never had a single refusal.

Anyway, anybody else getting a number of e-mails from one of Frank Kerns boys , Trey Smith. He's promoting some new product with Frank, but the interesting thing is he says he's the brains the "behind the scenes" guy in the arbitrage conspiracy launch.

Why he keeps pushing that as a sales point I don't know, put me right off buying the product he's promoting with Frank.

The 13th Warrior

L-O-L.

Yeah, man, get on board the train. :-)

Although I know nothing about the real world of CPA or what it really takes day-in, day-out, on the 1st read , it becomes crystal clear this is the gospel truth, no, holy grail of pulling the hidden curtain of cpa and all its money making magic. :-) LOL

This report beats all others, though I never read or know for a fact about anything cpa, this is the ticket and you should be rushing in with your $2000, and you are lucky and they are so gracious for sharing this hidden, never told before knowledge, like discovering the 1st pyramid in Egypt, its just that monumental a discovery and privaledge that this report is free, I can't believe my good fortune. :-) LOL

Although I sound like a future spammer and a unbiased witness (future affiliate spammer), you must be positive about everything that comes your way. :-) LOL

I also have no experience and no due diligence data or feasable logic to know whether this is good or bad, just a feeling of bursting sunshine that this is the ticket. :-) LOL

It really uncover the truth, because the truth has purposely been covered, and finally, these generous gentleman reveal how easy it is. :-) LOL

How did I come to this conclusion?

Cause they said so in the free report. :-) LOL

How nice of them. :-) LOL

L-O-L

The 13 th Warrior

tradermike2008

I'm getting Emails from Kern and Moffatt about that launch and it looks interesting, like it might be worth getting. But I didn't see anything where the Trey Smith said anything about the arbitrage launch. Can you copy and paste that. I'm planning on ordering this, but if he is a part of this arbitrage I'll pass.

I'm the ownder of WallStreetWindow.com where I do several big mega launches a year. I also moderate a mastermind group of financial stock trading/forex marketers and affiliate marketers who shares ideas and a launch calendar check it out: http://theprivatealliance.com

M3C

Hey,
This is Trey Smith... the guy "behind the
scenes" in the arbitrage conspiracy launch.
Check this out:
KILLER VIDEO
In this video, I show you how I increased sales
by 500% ...from just two hours of "work".
Thought you'd enjoy it!
Trey Smith

========

I had one from him 2 days ago which was very similar but had slightly different verbiage about being the brains behind the scenes or similar.

Seems like a really odd claim to fame to put around considering how badly AC has been launched.

Their product however looks ok, but I think it's really going to be a "for dummies" guide.

nobodyspecial

OK, we'll see how the course/teaching progresses.

It's unanimous, the launch and post sale customer service has sucked.

Time to move on until Jan 5th.

tradermike2008

Hmmm.. This makes me think the "gurus" don't even have any idea of what happened and how bad this launch has been. I'm sure almost all of them didn't even buy it themselves and probably just went to Vegas, did their thing and left, paying no attention to what is happening now or not even caring at all about it if they heard anything negative.

I'm the ownder of WallStreetWindow.com where I do several big mega launches a year. I also moderate a mastermind group of financial stock trading/forex marketers and affiliate marketers who shares ideas and a launch calendar check it out: http://theprivatealliance.com

trafficpayouts

Hi Simon,

I also just recieved an email from Trey?

But re your comments about acceptance into the C.P.A networks I must admit that about a year ago I was trying to get admission using a website that was poorly constructed and very ugly and I got knocked back by all of them.

I wised up a little amd found some software that I was able to use and the minute that I applied with an attractive site I had admission everywhere I applied.

On the A/C story I really hope that all of you that have purchased get some value from your investment.

I must say that I saw one of the guys that had promoted the offer defending it in the thread the other night ,and I will say in his defense that I have purchased products from him in the past and found him to be one of the most ethical and committed online marketers I have ever struck.

So I hope that the principals promoting the product get it all together because I figure they must have some fairly deep knowledge to of impressed people like Yanik,Eben etc.

Good Luck

Paul

1.Free trial of fantastic software for 30 days
2.One of the original Guru's offers this great FREE mini-course.

templar

The training video we did this morning covered the steps you take to get accepted into any CPA network, and since I consider this to be common knowledge, I'll give you the 40,000 foot view:

Apply during the business hours of the CPA company.
Fill in real, accurate data.
Don't enter a website unless it helps in your application.
Do not mention email marketing, or anything else...
EXCEPT PPC
You must portray yourself as a ppc person.
You drive targeted traffic to high converting offers using ppc.
Say this somewhere in your application.
Then wait 5-10 minutes, and then call them, and
get to an affiliate manager, and tell him you just
applied online, and want to introduce yourself.
Be friendly, answer any questions they have...
remember, PPC is your game, and you do it well...
and be sure to ask if he could share any offers that
are doing really good these days....

He'll shoot you over some US Grant Money offers, weight loss offers, and
should approve you on the spot...or in the worst case, within 24 hours.

Our live q&a chat will be at 4pm Eastern today, and cover the networks, the order in which to apply, and some quirks some of them have.

I found Trey's email this morning to be a bait and switch thing...completely unconnected to AC, CPA, or anything to do with 8-figures a year. Guess it's a good way to grab attention and get clicks.

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Harlan

I don't see how that can be.

Trey doesn't have any brains.

The millions he's made are just beginner's luck.

Peace.

Harlan D. Kilstein Ed.D.
Free NLP Communications Course at http://www.nlpcopywriting.com
http://overnight-copy.com
Get Fit In Four Minuteshttp://just4minutes.com
Learn how to build a Super Site Without SEO http://supersiteformula.com

eugenegoh

Sometimes I really wonder why would a person that is earning 50 to 100K be bothered with all these hassle of selling a 2K product to 1,000 people when he can make it all within a few weeks if he is really that good in doing what he does.

If the objective is to sell his CPA network, why not do so later then?

I believe that there are people out there who after taking certain courses, make the hundreds of thousands of dollars or even millions of dollars but what these testimonials don't tell you is that how long have they been in the IM industry and what setbacks have they gone through to succeed at that certain course.

Till date, I have already invested in 10K of products and felt that one should just stick with what he or she has invested and then worked on it laboriously. I am trying to stick to my commitment of not investing in any more new products until I have monetized what I bought from John Reese.

PPC-Coach

Getting accepted to any CPA network is simple:

1.) Don't lie on your application.
2.) Don't put your mom's blog on knitting as a website.
3.) Make sure your phone number is accurate.
4.) Don't say, "I'm brand new...blah blah blah".
5.) Make that phone call to them within 5 minutes of sending the application.
6.) When asked what you're currently doing, be prepared to answer it accurately.

I own a network and have seen some crazy applications in the past. Some have lied, got caught, got angry on being caught, then applied again several dozen times under fake names. (We CAN see all these duplicates guys and gals.) PLUS if you're applying to a direct track network, every application gets a fraudmeter score. The highest I've seen is 55 so far, (which means the applicant is pretty much a crook). If you've been kicked out of another Direct Track network, we know and the system gives us EXACT details. So if you messed up in the past, be honest otherwise you won't get accepted.

James Schramko

This is a very valuable post Coach.

Great advice for people trying to get accepted.

Re number 3: People overseas have to consider the international dial codes and time difference as well - (They tend to call at 3am here...)

This is where you get real information (backed up by proven results)

Da Jules

My business partner and I wanted to take the course and split the costs... until the email yesterday:

"Please keep the following login information safe and do not share them with
anyone. You'll risk losing your membership if our system shows that
your logins are shared by multiple users."

We don't want to violate the policies but that was not clear in the sales letter. So we sent an inquiry to customer service this AM and no response yet...

tradermike2008

Hey James you seem to have the inside scoop with Aymen. I notice arbitrage is still open even though I got an email Monday saying the course was going to start then and it would go down any second. It's three days later and they still have it open. Did they not sell as much of it as they expected?

I'm the ownder of WallStreetWindow.com where I do several big mega launches a year. I also moderate a mastermind group of financial stock trading/forex marketers and affiliate marketers who shares ideas and a launch calendar check it out: http://theprivatealliance.com

Louis Raven

What's stopping you making every WarriorForum member your partner and sharing the course with us all?

See how they had to stop that

Louis

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CLT

nice things in report

Noah Fleming

Never really heard of something like this being allowed. Why doesn't one of you take the course while the other works on other tasks like signing up for CPA Networks, getting the testing capital rounded up, building spreadsheets, installing tracking software, making sure everything is working properly....


Usually programs like aMember will automatically lock down a user if for example there are multiple logins from various IP's or let's say, three users all logged in at the same time from one IP.

I can almost guarantee they aren't monitoring this personally but relying on the software to do it's job.

nobodyspecial

Seems our MIA merchant is going to make an appearance at Yanik's Underground Seminar #5 :

=========================================

Rogue Underground Agent #7: — Mr. X [Location Classified]

Many of my Underground® events have featured a "Mr. X"... Someone SO Underground that they simply refuse to allow their identity to be made public. And the same thing is going to happen for Underground® 5.

This year, we’ve "Mr. X" is a huge player on the social media scene and the CPA networks. We’re talking like $100,000.00 a day huge. Mr. X. plays in a very large sandbox... and he’s gotten the blueprint for success so well documented... it’s pretty much paint-by-number. Well, it’s actually is "paint by the numbers."

Due to the classified nature of Mr. X, here’s a very short list of what he’s bringing. You’ll have to be in your seat at Underground® 5 to get the full story. Sorry.

By claiming your seat, you’ll get your chance to learn things like:

* How to "run with the big boys" and not get killed. Mr. X. knows what he’s doing in what is one of the most cut-throat worlds out there: CPA (cost per action) networks. In that world, it’s all about the numbers. And if you don’t know how to create the big numbers that get attention... it’s pretty much game over. You don’t get another chance.
* Cutting edge tech tools that truly take the guessing out of the CPA game. If you think the world of CPA is confusing and intimidating... it’s probably because you have no idea what kinds of tools these guys have guiding their decisions. Amazing stuff.
* A step-by-step blueprint to select your offer, research the traffic, launch your campaign, test/track/tweak, and ramp up your results into the stratosphere. I told you Mr. X had it down to a "paint by the numbers" system...
* How Mr. X creates a click-through-rate on his ads that’s about 100x better than the average. (You won’t believe what kind of profit that creates...)
* Why "find a need and fill it" will get you killed. And what Mr. X. does instead to max out his profits.
* BIG SECRET: How Mr. X has nearly 50% of the email addresses of users on Facebook (seriously). This is so hush-hush we’ll have to turn off the cameras here. It’s not anything illegal or gray — he’s simply created some amazing Facebook applications that users spread like wildfire. I can’t reveal much more than this — but this one secret is probably going to be worth 10x your ticket price.
* And a whole lot more… In fact, due to Mr. X’s request to remain absolutely anonymous, he had strict limits on the amount of information I can let leak out... And this is it.

==========================================

Also funny how Yanik has put a "Underground®", like you can make "underground" a registered mark LOL

M3C

Seriously this lot can't organise a piss up in a brewery, you really think they have multiple IP session login based tracking. Even if they did it's utterly impossible to police effectively.

What they going to do, stop you from accessing it at work if you also access it at home ?

It's just scare tactics to minimise the passing around of logins.

templar

Just got the confirmation for the live training on December 19th...so we are confirmed this is the real deal.

(sent as I am streaming on ustream)

Free Crypto Coin Empire

veotis

Totally agree, Simon. I also have two computers at home and have accessed the site from work. No problems. I think jimrpips is going to develop an ulcer with all of his worrying...lol.

docmatt

I am seriously enjoying the Simonisms - Please keep them coming-

James Schramko

Your IP would be the same between the two but your ISP may rotate IP's at varying sessions like mine does.... it would not be an issue.

As pointed out they are looking to protect themselves from sharing with others. This is fair for the people who invest.

This is where you get real information (backed up by proven results)

EliteAffiliate

Well, then I definitely believe he was the one behind this fiasco.