Is $____ Enough To Start With PPC or FB Ads or CPV or POF or ?

75 replies
I get this question a lot and answered it in another thread, but quoted it below.

Originally Posted by PPC-Coach

First question: what is your maximum spend per keyword?

Say the offer you're promoting pays $5. You say that you can safely spend $4 in testing EACH keyword. Meaning if a keyword converts, you make $1 profit. ($5 - $4 = $1).

Now how many keywords can you fully test at $4 spent PER keyword?

If your budget is $100, then it's $100 / $4 = 25 keywords.

Knowing that 90%, (minimum), of your tested keywords will NOT work, that means you're looking at about 25 x 90% = 22.5 keywords that will spend $4 but not convert. That also means that 2.5 keywords will work, they will convert and they will make you $12.50 in revenue on $10 spent. ($2.50 profit.) (Assuming .5 of a keyword just for illustration purposes).

So now you've spent $100. Made $12.50 and therefore lost $87.50 overall right? Yes on the surface. And this is the point where most quit.

However if you dig into your campaign, you had 2.5 keywords that worked. They were producing $1 profit for every $4 spent. So what's the solution?

Find more of those winners until your winners are enough to hit your target profit per day.

If your target profit per day is $100, how many winning keywords do you need to find at $1 profit per keyword? 100. To find that 100 winning keywords, how many keywords would you have to test? 100/(100%-90%) = 1,000. How much budget would you need at $4 per keyword to test 1,000 keywords? $4 x 1,000 = $4,000.

In your testing, how much of that budget will be spent on crappy keywords that don't work? $4,000 x 90% = $3,600

So the question is answered.

If you want to profit $100 per day, assuming my numbers above, you need a budget of $4,000 spread across 1,000 fully tested keywords. You'll be "losing" $3,600 in testing at the start to make $400 in profit. Now you should have 100 keywords producing $100 profit per day assuming they all hold steady and now everyday is a profit day for you.

The question is how many have the patience to do this?

The answer is very few.
I've been saying the same thing to people on my site and had a couple people actually quit when they realized that in order to hit their lofty goals, they'd have to have a real budget to do so.

I wanted to post this to add to my post quoted above, (which I should have to begin with).

You CAN start small with any paid traffic. The budget you have depends on you. You CAN start with $10 and keep reinvesting profits back into your campaign until you hit your goal. But you've got to know that if you want to make $100 per day or $10 per or whatever per day, you'll be spending at minimum THAT amount per day in buying traffic.

So if your goal is $100 per day profit. You will be spending at least $100 per day to make it. Typically you'll need to spend $200 or more to make $100 profit. But you have to crawl before you walk, walk before you run and run before you sprint. Don't expect to get there right away by spend $10 per day. It is not going to happen.

IF your budget is $10 per day and you're profitable on that $10, then you take what you've earned and reinvest it back into your campaigns, raising your budget every time.

Example:

$10 spent returns $11 per day. $1 profit.

Now budget can be $11 per day.

$11 spent returns $13 per day. $2 profit.

Now budget can be $13 per day.

$13 spent returns $16 per day. $3 profit.

Now budget can be $16 per day.

$16 spent returns $20 per day. $4 profit.

Now budget can be $20 per day.

Do you see a pattern? Your budget just went from $10 per day starting out to $20 per day just by reinvesting back into buying MORE traffic. Now I will warn you that your progress will typically not be as linear as that. You will have ups and downs, BUT if stick it out and keep putting money back in, you'll get there.

So next time someone asks, "Is $___ enough to start with PPC or FB Ads or POF or CPV" refer them to this thread. The answer is yes, but know it's going to take time and reinvestment into your campaigns to do so.

#ads #cpv #pof #ppc #start #starth
  • Profile picture of the author aminur
    Awesome share again Will this question seem to pop up every day
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  • Profile picture of the author Limemist
    I was thinking about how much money would be needed for the testing of keywords. This thread answered a lot of my questions. I guess investing something like 10 bucks would take too long to find a successful strategy; though it wouldn't hurt to give it a try and learn something in the process.


    But what guarantee is there that a successful keyword would keep converting months later? Is it common for certain keywords to be successful for a long run?
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    • Profile picture of the author PPC-Coach
      Originally Posted by Limemist View Post

      I guess investing something like 10 bucks would take too long to find a successful strategy; though it wouldn't hurt to give it a try and learn something in the process.
      I'm glad you brought this point up. How long is too long to make a living online? I think that another area where people are way off in expectations is how fast you can do it. It takes months to get going successfully. Nobody just fires up a campaign and is instantly successful. (Contrary to the guys who try to sell you case studies of campaigns that don't work anymore).

      I know a lot of courses and training programs try to promise you'll get rich quick, but the reality is you won't. It takes time. But look at any offline real world job. My wife is a teacher, it took her 10 years to get to the $87,000 per year salary level. Yet online marketers expect to make $100,000 for a weeks work. That's not realistic.

      If people would align their expectations with realistic timeframes, more would succeed. I've seen this almost 10,000 times in my own training sites. People join, try one or two things, (half assed usually), then quit. Those people don't get it and they're in the majority unfortunately.

      Originally Posted by Limemist View Post

      But what guarantee is there that a successful keyword would keep converting months later?
      There's no guarantees. Being an entrepreneur, (which is what online marketers are), we don't get guarantees. We take risks and if they pay out, we get rewarded. If they don't we don't get paid. That's another reality that most are not suited for.

      They want guarantees on everything. Look at the WSO section, if you don't have a 60 day, money back guarantee on anything, some won't buy it. That's totally contradictory to the true business persons mindset. That's the salaried workers mindset and trying to switch from one to the other is difficult if not impossible for most. It's yet another reason people fail so often and keep buying more and more garbage to try to find the perfect solution. When the solution is there, but they're hard wired to not accept it.

      Originally Posted by Limemist View Post

      Is it common for certain keywords to be successful for a long run?
      Yes some will be. But most will not. It's a constant battle and the only way to counter keywords going stale is to test more new ones. If you stop testing or think you can plug in a campaign and have it returning you big bucks for years, you're wrong.

      I don't mean to be a downer, but you bring up some excellent points here that most newbies should know.

      The good part is that the guys I've seen and helped succeed have a couple things in common:
      1. They have the entrepreneurs mindset.
      2. They have realistic timeframes.
      3. They have realistic expectations.
      4. They don't need guarantees.
      5. They are willing to take risks.
      6. They know that NOTHING is set and forget.
      7. They can think outside the box when necessary.
      8. They have a burning hunger for making it work.
      9. They refuse to quit.
      10. They know that luck is manufactured through hard work by them.
      11. They accept that the only person really responsible for their success is the person in the mirror.
      12. They have no fear of failure.
      13. They fail more then anybody else, (which is why they succeed).

      That's just off the top of my head.

      The longer I've been doing this the more I've come to realize that most of success is mindset and the above list. The fact is some people just aren't meant to be working for themselves and that's ok. There's nothing wrong with trying, but if you're going to do something, do it 100%.

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      • Profile picture of the author Limemist
        Originally Posted by PPC-Coach View Post

        1. They have the entrepreneurs mindset.
        2. They have realistic timeframes.
        3. They have realistic expectations.
        4. They don't need guarantees.
        5. They are willing to take risks.
        6. They know that NOTHING is set and forget.
        7. They can think outside the box when necessary.
        8. They have a burning hunger for making it work.
        9. They refuse to quit.
        10. They know that luck is manufactured through hard work by them.
        11. They accept that the only person really responsible for their success is the person in the mirror.
        12. They have no fear of failure.
        13. They fail more then anybody else, (which is why they succeed).



        These are some very powerful points that I copied pasted on my computer. I can tell you right now as a newcomer to this business that I am battling against most of the obstacles that you wrote about.

        I also would like to add having a positive mindset would allow you to be more creative with ideas. When you are down on yourself your mind and body will also give up.
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      • Profile picture of the author MarketMachine
        Originally Posted by PPC-Coach View Post

        Yes some will be. But most will not. It's a constant battle and the only way to counter keywords going stale is to test more new ones. If you stop testing or think you can plug in a campaign and have it returning you big bucks for years, you're wrong.

        Thanks.

        In your experience, how many of the "successful" keywords (as a percentage) do not recoup the cost of finding them before going stale?
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        • Profile picture of the author PPC-Coach
          90% will be crap at least.

          5% to 10% will be keepers.

          It's really hard for someone who has never profited on any campaign to accept that though, so they get antsy, impatient and quit before the war even starts!

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          • Profile picture of the author MarketMachine
            Originally Posted by PPC-Coach View Post

            90% will be crap at least.

            5% to 10% will be keepers.

            It's really hard for someone who has never profited on any campaign to accept that though, so they get antsy, impatient and quit before the war even starts!


            I accept from your opening post that at least 90% will be crap.

            My interest is in the 5% to 10% of keepers...

            In your experience, how many of the keepers (as a percentage) will remain profitable long enough simply to pay for the crap it took to find them?
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      • Profile picture of the author francof
        Originally Posted by PPC-Coach View Post

        I'm glad you brought this point up. How long is too long to make a living online? I think that another area where people are way off in expectations is how fast you can do it. It takes months to get going successfully. Nobody just fires up a campaign and is instantly successful. (Contrary to the guys who try to sell you case studies of campaigns that don't work anymore).

        I know a lot of courses and training programs try to promise you'll get rich quick, but the reality is you won't. It takes time. But look at any offline real world job. My wife is a teacher, it took her 10 years to get to the $87,000 per year salary level. Yet online marketers expect to make $100,000 for a weeks work. That's not realistic.

        If people would align their expectations with realistic timeframes, more would succeed. I've seen this almost 10,000 times in my own training sites. People join, try one or two things, (half assed usually), then quit. Those people don't get it and they're in the majority unfortunately.



        There's no guarantees. Being an entrepreneur, (which is what online marketers are), we don't get guarantees. We take risks and if they pay out, we get rewarded. If they don't we don't get paid. That's another reality that most are not suited for.

        They want guarantees on everything. Look at the WSO section, if you don't have a 60 day, money back guarantee on anything, some won't buy it. That's totally contradictory to the true business persons mindset. That's the salaried workers mindset and trying to switch from one to the other is difficult if not impossible for most. It's yet another reason people fail so often and keep buying more and more garbage to try to find the perfect solution. When the solution is there, but they're hard wired to not accept it.



        Yes some will be. But most will not. It's a constant battle and the only way to counter keywords going stale is to test more new ones. If you stop testing or think you can plug in a campaign and have it returning you big bucks for years, you're wrong.

        I don't mean to be a downer, but you bring up some excellent points here that most newbies should know.

        The good part is that the guys I've seen and helped succeed have a couple things in common:
        1. They have the entrepreneurs mindset.
        2. They have realistic timeframes.
        3. They have realistic expectations.
        4. They don't need guarantees.
        5. They are willing to take risks.
        6. They know that NOTHING is set and forget.
        7. They can think outside the box when necessary.
        8. They have a burning hunger for making it work.
        9. They refuse to quit.
        10. They know that luck is manufactured through hard work by them.
        11. They accept that the only person really responsible for their success is the person in the mirror.
        12. They have no fear of failure.
        13. They fail more then anybody else, (which is why they succeed).

        That's just off the top of my head.

        The longer I've been doing this the more I've come to realize that most of success is mindset and the above list. The fact is some people just aren't meant to be working for themselves and that's ok. There's nothing wrong with trying, but if you're going to do something, do it 100%.

        That's a very good post and doesn't apply to just PPC but Entrepreneurship in general.
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      • Profile picture of the author BigDan1
        that's a bit disappointing but necessary to know. thanks for this. i would've been annoyed had i come in with the expectations that i do have and they didn't pan out.

        if these high expectations are a common thing i dont know if these people are really at fault. for example i expected big things because those were the legitimate reviews i read from other people, and i dont think they were trying to sell us on anything. granted i was skeptical b/c i cant imagine one could make big money so easily, but still had expectations nonetheless.

        with that said, what would be the more realistic things to expect?



        Originally Posted by PPC-Coach View Post

        I'm glad you brought this point up. How long is too long to make a living online? I think that another area where people are way off in expectations is how fast you can do it. It takes months to get going successfully. Nobody just fires up a campaign and is instantly successful. (Contrary to the guys who try to sell you case studies of campaigns that don't work anymore).

        I know a lot of courses and training programs try to promise you'll get rich quick, but the reality is you won't. It takes time. But look at any offline real world job. My wife is a teacher, it took her 10 years to get to the $87,000 per year salary level. Yet online marketers expect to make $100,000 for a weeks work. That's not realistic.

        If people would align their expectations with realistic timeframes, more would succeed. I've seen this almost 10,000 times in my own training sites. People join, try one or two things, (half assed usually), then quit. Those people don't get it and they're in the majority unfortunately.



        There's no guarantees. Being an entrepreneur, (which is what online marketers are), we don't get guarantees. We take risks and if they pay out, we get rewarded. If they don't we don't get paid. That's another reality that most are not suited for.

        They want guarantees on everything. Look at the WSO section, if you don't have a 60 day, money back guarantee on anything, some won't buy it. That's totally contradictory to the true business persons mindset. That's the salaried workers mindset and trying to switch from one to the other is difficult if not impossible for most. It's yet another reason people fail so often and keep buying more and more garbage to try to find the perfect solution. When the solution is there, but they're hard wired to not accept it.
        They have realistic timeframes.
        1. They have realistic expectations.
        So what are realistic time frames and expectations?


        In my case I dont need large money immediately, but I do want to see some kind of result within a few weeks. I'd like to be able to see the path and have financial evidence of my own that following this will get me this result (tho again, no guarantees). For example if I spent $10/day in a week and got $2/day return, but I could keep re-investing those $2 in the same keywords thereby re-couping my cost in 35 days (($10/day * 7 days) / ($2/day) ) that might be OK. And if I could see that incrementing the spend would increment the profit that would work.
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      • Profile picture of the author algee650
        Originally Posted by PPC-Coach View Post

        The good part is that the guys I've seen and helped succeed have a couple things in common:
        1. They have the entrepreneurs mindset.
        2. They have realistic timeframes.
        3. They have realistic expectations.
        4. They don't need guarantees.
        5. They are willing to take risks.
        6. They know that NOTHING is set and forget.
        7. They can think outside the box when necessary.
        8. They have a burning hunger for making it work.
        9. They refuse to quit.
        10. They know that luck is manufactured through hard work by them.
        11. They accept that the only person really responsible for their success is the person in the mirror.
        12. They have no fear of failure.
        13. They fail more then anybody else, (which is why they succeed).
        That's just off the top of my head.

        The longer I've been doing this the more I've come to realize that most of success is mindset and the above list. The fact is some people just aren't meant to be working for themselves and that's ok. There's nothing wrong with trying, but if you're going to do something, do it 100%.

        Needed this! Thank you!!
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        • Profile picture of the author PPC-Coach
          Originally Posted by sologuy View Post

          Hi PPC Coach - I am a new bie in PPC and i just read this thread. I have been reading all forums since more than one week and I am determined to start my online marketing affilate business by the required level of investment though instead of walking alone in the wrong direction I want to start under a guidance of an experienced mentor. Do you offer personal one-to-one coaching? That would be a privilege for me. Please let me know your feedback. thanks
          Yes I do, please pm me or email me.

          Originally Posted by algee650 View Post

          Needed this! Thank you!!
          Cool glad you liked it.

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  • Profile picture of the author Naveen K
    Excellent share mate!
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  • Profile picture of the author Fary
    I had the same question in my mind. I will typically start with only 200 - 250 $ "total budget". My final goal is to get 50% ROI so I will stick to Facebook advertising making many copies of the same ad "recently added Microsoft Ad-center to my plan" so I track performance of each copy and see which one works for me. Thanks for this nice thread
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  • Profile picture of the author PPC-Coach
    No sweat, keep reinvesting and you'll get up to a large budget after some patience and success.

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  • Profile picture of the author anwar001
    You have said it right that you need to learn to walk before you run. However, the question is where can we start to advertise with $10 budget, apart from Google adwords which is out of the question due to its strict rules + too much competition?
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    • Profile picture of the author Jokyv
      why you increase your budget so little when you see that your campaign is working? Why dont you be more aggressive ?

      if you see your campaign is working then add 25% to your budget not just 1-2 dollars per day.....
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      • Profile picture of the author PPC-Coach
        Originally Posted by anwar001 View Post

        You have said it right that you need to learn to walk before you run. However, the question is where can we start to advertise with $10 budget, apart from Google adwords which is out of the question due to its strict rules + too much competition?
        You can do it on MSN Adcenter, Facebook Ads, 7search, Miva, Looksmart & a couple others.

        Originally Posted by Jokyv View Post

        why you increase your budget so little when you see that your campaign is working? Why dont you be more aggressive ?

        if you see your campaign is working then add 25% to your budget not just 1-2 dollars per day.....
        I would too, I was just using it as an illustration of a typical campaign. Most don't blow up and make big bucks overnight although that is what everyone expects out of every campaign. It takes time, tweaking and patience.

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    • Profile picture of the author MakeMoneyJames
      Will great break down. Stuff you don't hear in sales copy!

      One thing I do that helps with the testing curve is doing proper research/spying on whats running currently on the traffic source im using.

      I never go blind when I start running an offer. Why use my own money for testing if i dont need to

      Originally Posted by anwar001 View Post

      apart from Google adwords which is out of the question due to its strict rules + too much competition?
      you might be able to find coupon codes online for 100$ for google adwords. host gator was sending them to their customers a while back not sure if they still do, but worth a try.

      If you actually invested 100$ into a CPA campaign with google you more than likely will not profit, but if u can get a coupon its worth it to test, track , learn the ins and outs with out investing your own money.

      Even though there is lots of competition on google, you can direct link CPA offers. Gotta test sites/keywords (i've only direct link with content network), offers, and landing pages. You can test building a list/ not building a list, but get a 100$ coupon code and get started!!
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  • Profile picture of the author sayso
    Nice thread. Learned some new stuff here
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    • Profile picture of the author PPC-Coach
      Originally Posted by MarketMachine View Post

      In your experience, how many of the keepers (as a percentage) will remain profitable long enough simply to pay for the crap it took to find them?
      Most of them will remain profitable. Typically until a competitor starts honing in on them.

      Originally Posted by MakeMoneyJames View Post

      Will great break down. Stuff you don't hear in sales copy!
      Absolutely, you don't hear it because it won't sell things. Reality doesn't sell well in the make money online world. Only false promises, fake screenshots and pushing emotional hot buttons seems to work best.

      Originally Posted by sayso View Post

      Nice thread. Learned some new stuff here
      Cool...
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      • Profile picture of the author MarketMachine
        Originally Posted by PPC-Coach View Post

        Most of them will remain profitable. Typically until a competitor starts honing in on them.

        I take from this that the competition is the limiting factor (as opposed to a decreasing number of people interested in completing the offer) which gives rise to the initial cost of simply getting into the game.

        Thanks again.
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  • Profile picture of the author williamrs
    Very nice thread. Now I think it's clear for everybody how money makes money.


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  • Profile picture of the author sayso
    About the first post. Say I found that 2.5 keywords that worked, what am I suppose to do next, smack 100 on each of those profitting keywords per day until it dies or increase daily depending on the ROI?

    and then put another 100 up to run more tests to find more profiting keywords?

    Sorry if the questions sounds dumb, compplete newbie to PPC. Just learning.
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    • Profile picture of the author PPC-Coach
      Competition is certainly a factor because if something is very popular, there will be loads of it.

      If you have 2.5 keywords that worked, you keep those running while still testing more new ones. It's a constant battle. Testing new stuff and keeping the good stuff going. I wouldn't stop testing until I had reached my target profit per day.

      Even then if you stop testing, you'll only coast so far until something happens and you need to add more "fuel to your fire".

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  • Profile picture of the author sayso
    Ok, think I understand that part now, keep looking testing New key words incase my originals stop converting. Keep good ones and scale up, test different offers to see which converts best, change landing pages, hit the goal mark. Then move to different niches and offers. Am I in the right steps? Lol
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  • Profile picture of the author Andrew Zapp
    Great info as usual, hopefully they wont have to ask the question again. I'll make sure to leave it for you if they do!
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  • Profile picture of the author PPC-Coach
    sayso, that's pretty much it.

    Andrew, thanks man.

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  • Profile picture of the author sayso
    Post 15 is good, people quit before the war even starts. I'll remember that. Thanks for the tip.
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  • Profile picture of the author PPC-Coach
    They do, the other thing is people always report the "macro" level numbers on campaigns when in reality they're totally un-important to the campaign being a keeper or not.

    For example:

    I had 120 clicks, cost me $13.20 and I haven't had a conversion yet on this campaign, what should I do?

    The answer is, what's the details on those stats? What's the offer payout? What's your maximum spend per keyword? What if it looked like this:

    keyword one:

    75 clicks costing $8.25 @ $0.11 per click

    keyword two:

    20 clicks costing $2.20 @ $0.11 per click

    The rest have 1 click at $0.11 per click each

    If the offer pays $1.50, then you screwed up in managing this campaign. 2 keywords have drained almost the entire budget without converting and they were not removed from the campaign. That's bad/no campaign management.

    Get rid of those costly 2 keywords and keep the ones that have only cost $0.11 each until they reach your MSPK then figure out whether you're going to keep them or remove them as well.

    BUT my point is people don't even get to the real campaign management phase, they totally ignore it. They just drop this campaign and move on, (usually to the next shiny object). The ones who do know that there's more to it then macro level numbers stick it out and test each keyword thoroughly before deciding to drop the campaign.

    So that is quitting the war before it even starts in a nutshell.

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  • Profile picture of the author JohnMoney
    Nice plan you got.there very workable..
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  • Profile picture of the author JasonWestwick
    Dude, you rock, simple as, this post is GOLD.

    Cheers
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  • Profile picture of the author saras
    Thank you for this great post - I am looking to get back into PPC after a 3 year break - i used to be very sucessful - most days >$600 profit, but then got the big slap and just gave up! Now very keen to get back in but not sure of the rules of play these days - any thoughts would be appreciated.
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    • Profile picture of the author PPC-Coach
      Originally Posted by saras View Post

      Thank you for this great post - I am looking to get back into PPC after a 3 year break - i used to be very sucessful - most days >$600 profit, but then got the big slap and just gave up! Now very keen to get back in but not sure of the rules of play these days - any thoughts would be appreciated.
      The rules have changed but the basics have not. If you had a campaign working back then, odds are it will work now, IF the traffic source still allows the type of offer you're promoting.

      It's hard to say without details, but yeah, traffic sources change their rules all the time, but we need to adjust and adapt to survive.

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  • Profile picture of the author Newb 2 Ninja
    very well explained, kind of dashed my thoughts of how it would work but it's better to be realistic, it's easier to lose money testing campaigns when you expect to lose money.

    I am going to start off small as it's all I can afford, but I am going to reinvent what I earn and just keep going like the example, I don't plan on giving up no matter how much I lose in money and time, I will become successful in PPC.

    On your website do you explain how to do keyword research and find keywords for our campaigns?

    Edit: I just set up my first PPC campaign, I only invested $25, I would be happy earning just $1, I am going to stick at it no matter how much money I lose, I am only going to do small investments and I plan on joining the forum soon so I can get help on setting up successful campaigns.

    Edit 2: OMG I just got a lead! the campaign has been up for less than 15 minutes with only 2 keywords and I already have a lead
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    • Profile picture of the author ahperson
      This is a good post and I have been wondering about this for long time now. Cashflow is another problem that most ppc marketer would encounter when starting out with a small budget. If you are using a cpa offer from a network that pays net 15/30 you might have a cashflow problem. I think it's really important to consider cashflow when you are starting out and figuring your daily budget.

      I can afford a $100 budget if I'm getting paid weekly, but if the network is paying net 15/30 I would be totally screwed.
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  • Profile picture of the author Kal Sallam
    Awesome! Highly appreciate your contribution.
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  • Profile picture of the author Angelman
    Thank you so much for a very informative and refreshingly honest and open post. I have a very keen interest in moving towards using paid traffic, but I think I was deluding myself about how much investment would be needed.

    As a previous poster said, its easier losing money if you expect to lose it, but I guess its also important to understand why you need to spend the money in the first place and to evaluate what you actually get back from that spend - ie. extremely useful data about your campaigns that can lead on to profits.

    I still have a lot to learn and no way will I have an immediate budget of $thousands, but it's good to at last have an understanding of the real task in hand, with some realistic numbers being shared.
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  • Profile picture of the author MaxBounty
    I missed this thread the first time around, Will. I'm so happy that it was bumped!

    Best post I've read in a long time - some hard truths here and so much good information. Success is attainable, but isn't easy or maintenance-free or without some sort of investment.
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  • Profile picture of the author PriceMaster
    Great tips. IMO even $0 is enough to start with PPC and CPA.

    Just throw up a Blogspot page and start watching your earnings rise.
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  • Profile picture of the author outwest
    Thanks PPC coach I have bumped this thread
    My question I guess Is , yes in theory you can start with 50 dollars or some low amount. But to me its all about reality. In reality can you start with 50 dollars and expect as a newbie to actually make money by the time you eat up your 50 dollars and reinvest your profits? My guess is 99 percent chance that the answer is no

    I guess my question is, given the fact that newbies are not used to all the minefields they will encounter, and yes like you say, many give up too easily, they are not going to hit profitability on campaigns nearly as quickly as guys who are veterans in the business.



    So I guess my confusion is when you are a newbie lets say you have 500 dollars to start with , how realistic is it to start with that amount? I know theoretically you could start with 10 dollars, but IMO thats very unrealistic and delusional in the long term to think most people would achieve success in a timely manner starting with such a low amount.

    For example, on one of the pay forums I was reading a case study by one of the most knowledgeable and successful forum members (on aff playbook) and he was testing banners for an offer for payday loans(or something similar) . He allotted 50 dollars for the testing of each banner change, and ended up paying out like $350 to test this one series of banner changes. It ended up breaking even then being a very successful long term money maker for the guy, but this was a VERY experienced guy on the forum, very successful, and he spent almost 400 dollars testing banners for one campaign. If he had quit at 100 or 200 he would have not hit the successful banner yet, so that money would have been wasted.

    So thats why I am saying, you coming onto the thread and saying a newbie can start with 10 dollars and scale it up. dont you think thats a bit unrealistic? I mean do you really think a newbie can start with such a low amount?

    I am thinking of starting with 500 to 1000 but even with that I am not sure its enough.
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  • Profile picture of the author SCW19
    I spend 250$ and that is a good number for me
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  • Profile picture of the author PPC-Coach
    Outwest, it depends on how fast you want to go and what your risk tolerance is. If you want to go faster, spend more. If you want to spend $50 for each banner change, go for it. IF the offer pays less then $50, then you're taking a riskier route.

    The risk is that you won't find a banner that works, you won't be able to optimize the campaign to profitability because you don't have the experience and have never done it before.

    As you gain experience, you want to buy data faster. You want to spend a bit more just to see if there's any hope for a banner or keyword knowing that if you get a bite, you can make small changes in the proverbial bait until you catch the fish.

    Everyone is at different levels, has different budgets and different styles. You will develop your own and it will change as you move from newbie to intermediate to experienced marketer. The guy who did the case study is not a newbie so what he does should not really be attempted by a newbie. That's the danger of "case studies". They show you how THAT person did it, but that doesn't mean that's how YOU should be doing it to start. (Nobody ever looks at that angle either, it's never brought up). It's easier to sell you a bunch of case studies that are too expensive to run and too difficult for newbies to ever use then tell you the truth.

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  • Profile picture of the author bushidosurfer
    Great post PPC-Coach!

    Gives me a clear idea - which has been on my mind a while - how much I should plan to save up/invest when I go the PPC route Your $100 for 100% ROI to make $100 makes lots of sense. And at lower ROI to hit that $100/day goal, simple need more daily investment
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  • Profile picture of the author macker2298
    nice share!
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  • Profile picture of the author antman1437
    I am so glad I stumbled upon this. PPC-coach's insight is comforting for me as a person about ready to hop into PPC. The info on mindset alone is what is so highly neglected by most newcomers/business owners. Have been learning about keyword research and testing but didn't know what to really expect. Knowing that 90% unprofitable keywords or so will make it MUCH easier to keep working hard at the campaign. Especially with not having good results the first 3-5 times. Won't be kicking myself too early when i start =)
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  • Profile picture of the author watsonovedades
    awesome share thank you for this
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  • Profile picture of the author doitnow
    Is it true that you need different domain names for different PPC Campaigned Product while single domain with different subdomain or page will work for PPV Campaign ?

    Thanks
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    • Profile picture of the author LarryW
      As someone newly considering PPC and CPA, I found this very important ... and yes even disturbing as to how soon I could afford to try (being mostly the Reality of the Situation). So a big big Thank You!

      Your example way back up top --- after sorting through all of the keywords and getting the 2.5 money makers, well it seems to me you will not break even after the next 30 days??? And so when / where is the "profit" as it would seem to be a ways down the road?

      Doesn't your experience make the 90% crap keywords number decrease, like can't you get a feel about half of them and not bother to test the really ugly girls?

      .
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  • Profile picture of the author dswconsulting
    Excellent post! Thank you for sharing such valuable information. Until now I was totally convinced PPC was not a viable option. I'm checking out your site & WSO now!
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  • Profile picture of the author hydride
    Originally Posted by PPC-Coach View Post

    have to crawl before you walk, walk before you run and run before you sprint.
    That's it right there.
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    • Profile picture of the author Mike1753
      Thanks foer the info was very interesting and informative.
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  • Profile picture of the author badboy_Nick
    Originally Posted by PPC-Coach View Post

    I've been saying the same thing to people on my site and had a couple people actually quit when they realized that in order to hit their lofty goals, they'd have to have a real budget to do so.
    Finally someone hits the nail on the head.

    IT TAKES MONEY TO MAKE MONEY! If you're doing CPA/Leadgen marketing ... aim for a 10-50% ROI early stages and then reinvest your profits, scale, tweak and raise that profit margin.

    BUT, to be able to get there you NEED a solid budget, not a couple of bucks in loose change!

    Nick
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    • Profile picture of the author sanjaysharma
      This is incredible thread.

      Thanks,

      Sanjay Sharma
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  • Profile picture of the author BigDan1
    Originally Posted by PPC-Coach View Post

    Originally Posted by PPC-Coach


    Say the offer you're promoting pays $5. You say that you can safely spend $4 in testing EACH keyword. Meaning if a keyword converts, you make $1 profit. ($5 - $4 = $1).

    Now how many keywords can you fully test at $4 spent PER keyword?

    If your budget is $100, then it's $100 / $4 = 25 keywords.

    Knowing that 90%, (minimum), of your tested keywords will NOT work, that means you're looking at about 25 x 90% = 22.5 keywords that will spend $4 but not convert. That also means that 2.5 keywords will work, they will convert and they will make you $12.50 in revenue on $10 spent. ($2.50 profit.) (Assuming .5 of a keyword just for illustration purposes).

    So now you've spent $100. Made $12.50 and therefore lost $87.50 overall right? Yes on the surface. And this is the point where most quit.

    However if you dig into your campaign, you had 2.5 keywords that worked. They were producing $1 profit for every $4 spent. So what's the solution?
    In the above example once you find the above 2.5 keywords, will those be contributing $1 everyday to your campaign or are they a one time thing? For example if at Day 1 I've lost $87.50, and I found 2.5 keywords paying me $1/day therefore $2.50/day, does this mean in on day 2 onwards I can just use those 2 keywords and eventually recoup my cost in about 40 days? This is of course a hypothetical example since I wouldnt stop at just 2, but just trying to get how this works.

    Also, I realize the contingency here is that keywords dont stay active for life. But they do for a while I'm guessing.
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  • Profile picture of the author jwchia11
    hey,can anyone tell me,if i want to start with plenty of fish,is that possible for me to start with 400 per month to test the offer?how much daily budget i should go for test?I very concern about my budgeting on pof now.
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  • Profile picture of the author Kenrick C
    So in your coaching, do you provide winning campaigns (i.e. keywords) for your new students to help them get to where they want to be faster while losing less money during the process?

    Originally Posted by PPC-Coach View Post

    I get this question a lot and answered it in another thread, but quoted it below.



    I've been saying the same thing to people on my site and had a couple people actually quit when they realized that in order to hit their lofty goals, they'd have to have a real budget to do so.

    I wanted to post this to add to my post quoted above, (which I should have to begin with).

    You CAN start small with any paid traffic. The budget you have depends on you. You CAN start with $10 and keep reinvesting profits back into your campaign until you hit your goal. But you've got to know that if you want to make $100 per day or $10 per or whatever per day, you'll be spending at minimum THAT amount per day in buying traffic.

    So if your goal is $100 per day profit. You will be spending at least $100 per day to make it. Typically you'll need to spend $200 or more to make $100 profit. But you have to crawl before you walk, walk before you run and run before you sprint. Don't expect to get there right away by spend $10 per day. It is not going to happen.

    IF your budget is $10 per day and you're profitable on that $10, then you take what you've earned and reinvest it back into your campaigns, raising your budget every time.

    Example:

    $10 spent returns $11 per day. $1 profit.

    Now budget can be $11 per day.

    $11 spent returns $13 per day. $2 profit.

    Now budget can be $13 per day.

    $13 spent returns $16 per day. $3 profit.

    Now budget can be $16 per day.

    $16 spent returns $20 per day. $4 profit.

    Now budget can be $20 per day.

    Do you see a pattern? Your budget just went from $10 per day starting out to $20 per day just by reinvesting back into buying MORE traffic. Now I will warn you that your progress will typically not be as linear as that. You will have ups and downs, BUT if stick it out and keep putting money back in, you'll get there.

    So next time someone asks, "Is enough to start with PPC or FB Ads or POF or CPV" refer them to this thread. The answer is yes, but know it's going to take time and reinvestment into your campaigns to do so.

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    • Profile picture of the author Bri777
      Alright. So that means we should be constantly testing keywords AND quickly stopping the ones that don't work.

      So, is there anything else useful for keyword research other than google's adword tool? I guess researching/looking for other people's successful campaigns would help right?

      By successful, meaning the ads keep on showing up.
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  • Profile picture of the author Greedy
    Alright. So that means we should be constantly testing keywords AND quickly stopping the ones that don't work.
    Don't stop them too quickly test them at least 1x - 2x the offer's payout.
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  • Profile picture of the author PPC-Coach
    I'm more aggressive then that. I cut them if they're losing me money. But I burn through more keywords versus going for 2x the payout. I'll typically go 80% of the payout in testing.

    One person asked if I give away profitable campaigns. I have but I prefer to teach people how to fish instead of handing them one and feeding for only one day.

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  • Profile picture of the author Greedy
    I'm more aggressive then that. I cut them if they're losing me money. But I burn through more keywords versus going for 2x the payout. I'll typically go 80% of the payout in testing.
    yeah, I depends on the ad network, I kind of try to develop a "feel" for each.
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  • Profile picture of the author StoneWilson
    The problem is, that 2.5 keywords are really hard to find, and even after you find them that you won't make enough to cover your loss at the beginning.
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  • Profile picture of the author PPC-Coach
    The ones you find will make more then enough to cover the losses. I ran one keyword for over 2 years on adwords and it made me a well over six figures alone. I bid more and paid more then anyone would even dare because I KNEW it was profitable.

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  • Profile picture of the author abuhanifa
    Thank'ed you for awesome share
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  • Profile picture of the author arojilla
    Thank you for this post! It is really making me rethink the way I plan to spend my limited initial budget.
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  • Profile picture of the author McDollars
    Thank you for this man. It's really cool seeing the patterns!
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  • Profile picture of the author sologuy
    Hi PPC Coach - I am a new bie in PPC and i just read this thread. I have been reading all forums since more than one week and I am determined to start my online marketing affilate business by the required level of investment though instead of walking alone in the wrong direction I want to start under a guidance of an experienced mentor. Do you offer personal one-to-one coaching? That would be a privilege for me. Please let me know your feedback. thanks
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  • Profile picture of the author sohel
    Great share there!! It was the question when I started earlier. The list is also great. Every newbies should read it.
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  • Profile picture of the author PPC-Coach
    Thanks, I am going to add to that list shortly.

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    • Profile picture of the author chrislewis217
      Originally Posted by PPC-Coach View Post

      Thanks, I am going to add to that list shortly.

      Hmmm I've never looked at ppc this way very insightful. One question though, how do you figure out how much you should be spending cpc per keyword? Using your illustration of spending no more than $4 per keyword how many clicks should you try to acquire for testing a keyword before making a decision to keep it or get rid of it? For instance, $4 for particular keyword, 100 clicks meaning $.04 a click to reach $4. $.04 a click doesn't seem feasible in today's market when starting a test. Maybe I need some clarification?
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  • Profile picture of the author Gyv
    Thanks for the post PPC. What CPA network do you recommend for beginners?
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    • Profile picture of the author dragonsfire1981
      Maxbounty or Peerfly. It's what he recommends in his training too!

      You need your own domain or website though, as if I remember correctly they both ask for it.

      Originally Posted by Gyv View Post

      Thanks for the post PPC. What CPA network do you recommend for beginners?
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      • Profile picture of the author dragonsfire1981
        Just to add my two cents worth.

        I spent so long umming and ahhing and being indecisive before trying PPC and my only regret is not having started it long before.

        I only joined PPC Coach's forum 5 or 6 weeks ago and my first set of campaigns following his methods I found two VERY profitable keywords using CPA offers and using 7search (a PPC engine with a dodgy reputation according to some people) one of these in fact may make me as much as $600-$900 residual income for a while yet as it's converting like crazy! and yes indeed 95% of the others have had no conversions whatsoever. I now know how to very ruthless in weeding out bad campaigns after having accidently allowed spend to go over a little bit when I first set them up and not following the golden rules.

        I've learnt an immense amount and I'm still in positive ROI on these campaigns. before when i thought about Internet marketing my heart was confused as I was like "how or why are people able to make money from this" now I'm much clearer on what's possible and what I may need to do to reach my aim of becoming financially secure from this.

        You have to think long term, the more you do it test campaigns, the more winners you'll find, and the better you'll be at identifying patterns of how to profit. A lot of it is risk management.
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