Not cut out for marketing...can I still make a living online?

114 replies
I have finally come to the conclusion that I am not cut out for anything requiring any type of marketing. I think it's because deep down I feel like if you have to advertise for something, it can't be that important or necessary therefore the person just wants money from you. I mean lets face it, if someone truly wants or needs something, they don't have to be convinced to buy it. I have tried to change this mindset but it just goes against every cell in my body. I would actually feel guilty if I made a product and then tried to get people to buy it from me. When I want something, I find it on Amazon and order it, or go to a store that sells that thing, no advertising necessary. Maybe it's because I'm a minimalist hippie who has few possessions and values only freedom, nature, love and music. My circle of peers aren't the kind of people who spend money on things they don't need. Most people I know create art or music and they never advertise, in fact the best painter I have ever seen in my life only sells her paintings at small local music festivals and they average from $500 to $3000 a piece. She doesn't need an Etsy account or a website. I am wondering if maybe the reason why I haven't been motivated enough to start earning money online is because the marketing side of it goes against my values and who I am as a person. I do want to earn money working online though, I want something that is location independent and something I don't need to leave the house to do. I want something that I don't have to trade my time for. Is it possible for someone like me to be successful with this? Maybe there is a way to earn money online without selling something? Or at least not needing to advertise for it?
#cut #living #make #marketingcan #online
  • Profile picture of the author Kay King
    I want something that I don't have to trade my time for.
    What are you willing to trade? If you don't want to spend time, you'll have to spend money. If your approach is "I won't 'supply' anything to do this" - no, it won't work.

    the best painter I have ever seen in my life only sells her paintings at small local music festivals
    I know a man who does that - lives in Atlanta area during the summer and in the Florida Keys/Miami during winter months. He is a talented artist...are you?

    I do understand what you are saying and it makes sense to a point. If you are minimalist 'hippy' (someone actually uses that word now?) you might sell festival guides or home crafted musical instruments or a specialized craft item you've created...

    You don't have to sell 'things' people don't want....and try to talk them into buying those 'things'.

    Instead sell info or 'stuff' people are looking for....

    values only freedom, nature, love and music.
    Freedom: travel blogs, 'best places to live cheap', ways to cut costs to
    live a simple 'at home' lifestyle, etc.....write books about low cost living, low-stress living,

    Nature: best low cost campground, free camp sites, trail guides, organic gardening, growing and preserving herbs, preserving home grown foods.

    Love: you got me on that one - dating, boy/girl stuff, getting ex's back (why would you want to do that a second time?) doesn't interest me..so no ideas about it.
    (see what I did there?)

    Music - music for meditation, folk music, home made musical instruments for children, selling old time instruments or parts to them that may be hard to find.

    IF you decide to work online you have to put yourself into it - you need to 'sell' but it can be things you know people WANT/NEED to buy.

    the marketing side of it goes against my values and who I am as a person.
    I don't believe that - I think it's only out of your comfort zone. You want to earn money online but seem to think 'marketing' is a dirty word. You'll need to resolve that in your mind.


    If you sell products/info that people you know will want to buy...you are providing them with a service....not forcing advertising on them. There is a difference.

    If you have a hobby or a craft - why not work in that niche and sell products you believe in?
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    • Profile picture of the author GaiaGoddess
      Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

      What are you willing to trade? If you don't want to spend time, you'll have to spend money. If your approach is "I won't 'supply' anything to do this" - no, it won't work.
      Well I am ok with trading some time, just not most of my time. That is one of the reasons I hate conventional jobs because after I get home from work, I either have to get to bed right away to get enough sleep for work the next day or I have to try to get my housework and errands done if I can but with most of my jobs my hours were so long that I couldn't do those things until the weekends and then on the weekends I didn't have enough time to enjoy life! I just quit my job 3 weeks ago so I can focus on building an income myself, without having to work for someone else at a normal job with scheduled hours.

      I know a man who does that - lives in Atlanta area during the summer and in the Florida Keys/Miami during winter months. He is a talented artist...are you?
      Unfortunately, no...I've never been good at anything I have tried. I have lost count with how many crafts I have tried to make, how many websites and blogs I have started, about the only skill I have is typing fast but it's been impossible for me to find a typing job where I can work from home that pays consistently without taking up most of my time. And also, since I spend so much of my free time on the internet, it isn't good to be online every waking minute so I don't think i'd even want to do a job where I am constantly typing. I need the ability to walk away whenever I want and not come back for a few hours. I want something where I can create something online but not be forced to sit on the computer for hours a day. That is why passive income appealed to me, create something once and earn residual income on it from there on out without having to do the same thing every day.

      Instead sell info or 'stuff' people are looking for....

      Freedom: travel blogs, 'best places to live cheap', ways to cut costs to
      live a simple 'at home' lifestyle, etc.....write books about low cost living, low-stress living,

      Nature: best low cost campground, free camp sites, trail guides, organic gardening, growing and preserving herbs, preserving home grown foods.

      Love: you got me on that one - dating, boy/girl stuff, getting ex's back (why would you want to do that a second time?) doesn't interest me..so no ideas about it.
      (see what I did there?)

      Music - music for meditation, folk music, home made musical instruments for children, selling old time instruments or parts to them that may be hard to find.
      Believe it or not, I have already tried many of those ideas. But what I learned is that I just like to enjoy and experience those things, not make them into a job. For example, love...I am not interested in being a relationship therapist or anything like that, I just have love as one of my values in life. And the same with music, I dont want to play music or work in the music industry, I just want to listen to it. It becomes a whole different thing when you take an experience and try to turn it into a job. At the same time though, I couldn't imagine doing a job that didnt involve something that I enjoy. For example I couldn't be an editor unless I was editing something about one of the subjects I enjoy. If I was an editor and had to edit a book about sports (which I hate), it would make me immediately want to quit, lol

      I don't believe that - I think it's only out of your comfort zone. You want to earn money online but seem to think 'marketing' is a dirty word. You'll need to resolve that in your mind.

      If you sell products/info that people you know will want to buy...you are providing them with a service....not forcing advertising on them. There is a difference.
      Yeah I get the difference. I just am not a marketer. I know you have to wear many hats when you have an online business or are selling something but I'm saying that is what I don't like about it. Sure I could hire people to do all that for me, but how would I be able to afford that when I need the money first?

      If you have a hobby or a craft - why not work in that niche and sell products you believe in?
      I kinda answered this already, up there.
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      • Profile picture of the author dave_hermansen
        You clearly can write better than 99% of the people who post here, so that may be the best avenue for you. Decent writers are very hard to find. There are many services online looking for writers. You get to pick the jobs you want, have pretty flexible timelines, can do it remotely without having to ever go into a workplace and it's completely up to you how much or little you work. Just do a search for "get paid to write" and you may find the perfect gig for your lifestyle.
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        • Profile picture of the author GaiaGoddess
          Originally Posted by dave_hermansen View Post

          You clearly can write better than 99% of the people who post here, so that may be the best avenue for you. Decent writers are very hard to find. There are many services online looking for writers. You get to pick the jobs you want, have pretty flexible timelines, can do it remotely without having to ever go into a workplace and it's completely up to you how much or little you work. Just do a search for "get paid to write" and you may find the perfect gig for your lifestyle.
          That's like the rainbows and roses description of it, lol Actually doing it isn't that easy. I have tried writing books before. I have had my own websites and blogs and FB pages. If none of that was successful, how would I be successful in any other writing job? I would have no references, no portfolio, no real experience other than normal personal stuff on FB and forums. I did a test to see if I qualified for proofreading and wasn't accepted. When you're a freelance writer, don't you have to constantly be looking for work, every day?
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          • Profile picture of the author dave_hermansen
            Originally Posted by GaiaGoddess View Post

            That's like the rainbows and roses description of it, lol Actually doing it isn't that easy. I have tried writing books before. I have had my own websites and blogs and FB pages. If none of that was successful, how would I be successful in any other writing job? I would have no references, no portfolio, no real experience other than normal personal stuff on FB and forums. I did a test to see if I qualified for proofreading and wasn't accepted. When you're a freelance writer, don't you have to constantly be looking for work, every day?
            You're really stretching it now, trying to come up with excuses. Nobody is saying write a book, nobody is saying create your own blog and somehow get discovered. Real writers get paid $50 - $150 - $400 for an article. There are companies that you can sign up with that have a ton of different writing gigs that other companies have paid them to provide. You check every day (or whenever) and select the ones that suit you best. There's a bunch of them to choose from with prices of what you will be paid. Yes, you'll have to show some writing competence but normally that is done in the form of a test. They'll ask you to write an article about "x" and see how well you do. This is not like that proofreading scam. There are literally thousands of places looking for people to write articles for them online. You don't have to go find them; you just have to hook up with a company that finds them for you.
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            • Profile picture of the author Adaaya
              Hello! Can you drop the names of some of these companies that hire writers, I'd like to check them out.
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              • Profile picture of the author dave_hermansen
                Originally Posted by Adaaya View Post

                Hello! Can you drop the names of some of these companies that hire writers, I'd like to check them out.
                As I said in my initial post on this thread, just do a search for "get paid to write". There are many places looking for writers.
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            • Profile picture of the author GaiaGoddess
              Originally Posted by dave_hermansen View Post

              You're really stretching it now, trying to come up with excuses. Nobody is saying write a book, nobody is saying create your own blog and somehow get discovered. Real writers get paid $50 - $150 - $400 for an article. There are companies that you can sign up with that have a ton of different writing gigs that other companies have paid them to provide. You check every day (or whenever) and select the ones that suit you best. There's a bunch of them to choose from with prices of what you will be paid. Yes, you'll have to show some writing competence but normally that is done in the form of a test. They'll ask you to write an article about "x" and see how well you do. This is not like that proofreading scam. There are literally thousands of places looking for people to write articles for them online. You don't have to go find them; you just have to hook up with a company that finds them for you.
              It wasn't a proofreading scam, it was the biggest proofreading site out there, https://www.proofreadingservices.com/

              So you're saying I can just go search for people looking for people to write articles and I can just write whichever ones I want whenever I want and get paid right away and I don't need a degree or experience? Even with all the competition out there including people who have all that stuff I don't? Tell me where to look. And I'll pray I do better on that test than I did on the proofreading one.
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  • Profile picture of the author yukon
    Originally Posted by GaiaGoddess View Post

    I have finally come to the conclusion that I am not cut out for anything requiring any type of marketing. I think it's because deep down I feel like if you have to advertise for something, it can't be that important or necessary therefore the person just wants money from you. I mean lets face it, if someone truly wants or needs something, they don't have to be convinced to buy it. I have tried to change this mindset but it just goes against every cell in my body. I would actually feel guilty if I made a product and then tried to get people to buy it from me. When I want something, I find it on Amazon and order it, or go to a store that sells that thing, no advertising necessary. Maybe it's because I'm a minimalist hippie who has few possessions and values only freedom, nature, love and music. My circle of peers aren't the kind of people who spend money on things they don't need. Most people I know create art or music and they never advertise, in fact the best painter I have ever seen in my life only sells her paintings at small local music festivals and they average from $500 to $3000 a piece. She doesn't need an Etsy account or a website. I am wondering if maybe the reason why I haven't been motivated enough to start earning money online is because the marketing side of it goes against my values and who I am as a person. I do want to earn money working online though, I want something that is location independent and something I don't need to leave the house to do. I want something that I don't have to trade my time for. Is it possible for someone like me to be successful with this? Maybe there is a way to earn money online without selling something? Or at least not needing to advertise for it?


    How can you sell something If nobody knows it exist?

    Selling at festivals is advertising unless you just like carrying artwork around town for the heck of it.

    From what I've read here I agree, marketing probably isn't for you. Do something else that you're interested in.
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  • Profile picture of the author dave_hermansen
    Even the hippie painter does/did marketing. It may not seem like it now, but at some point in time, they were discovered by presenting their art somewhere that people could see it. Marketing does not necessarily mean a sales pitch. It is getting your products out there where they can be discovered. It could all very well be word of mouth at this point for that artist but there was nobody talking about them until they put themselves out there somewhere to be seen.

    You cannot possibly make money online if people don't know about your site. There is no "build and they will come" scenario with websites. So, you are going to have to do something in order to have people find the website. You can do that in a variety of ways - advertising, social networking, SEO - but it all is still marketing to different degrees.

    I've never known of any way of making money (online or offline) that you don't have to trade time for. Even the hippie artist knows that the paintings don't paint themselves and that she sometimes has to go places and present the art so that people can see it.

    Unfortunately, you sound like the ideal prey for people who sell the "no work, push button money making machine" scams. We've had plenty of people who succeeded with our course and plenty of people who didn't. The thing that always seems to separate those who do from those who don't succeed is the level of commitment and amount of work that they put in. The 80/20 rule exists for a reason.
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  • Profile picture of the author Robsquires
    first, you are focusing on the wrong thing. first focus on the know like and trust factor and you will find your clients.
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  • Profile picture of the author Zeyankhan
    Put some Faith and trust. Then you can find real Clients
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  • Profile picture of the author Amit Patel
    This is a very famous story. I will reveal the characters in a minute.

    Two friends start a company. One is only 16 years in age we will call him B and another one is senior about 20 years in age. Let us call him A.

    Now B find and idea to build a product that he feels would be required by a lot of people. A agrees with B.

    So B and A work together and develop the prototype of the product. This product is a bundle for another product already available in the market and selling well.

    So they decide that they would go and market this product to this existing company and ask them to promote their product along with their product.

    But B is very young. Looks like a kid. No one would take him seriously. That is what he feels. So B ask A to go to the company and do the presentation.

    Bill tells Allen, "You look mature and senior, they will take you more seriously." So Allen went to this company that built the first computer Altair 8800. He give the presentation of the software they had built on top of Altair 8800. And his presentation was successful.

    By now if you have not guessed the names of these folks. B Stands for Bill Gates and A Stands for Paul Allen. Now don't ask my why I did not use P. Because B and P would have been confusing and tongue twisting.

    What does this have to do with your question?

    Everything.

    You see we are all carved out differently by the one and only GOD. So we are good in some skills and then we are bad or horrible in other skills.

    Just imagine if Micheal Jackson had to make his music and also go out and sell his music. He would have remained unknown pop star of the world. The world would have missed his moon walk and the only moon walk we would have known is the one that Neil Armstrong did on the real moon.

    Coming to the Point.

    You don't need to be good or great in marketing to start a business online.

    I am going to repeat that again.

    You don't need to be good or great in marketing to start a business online.

    I will give you an example.

    Think about a general store. You know everything they sell at the general store. The person behind the counter does not have to sell you anything. When you want paper clips you will go and find it on the shelf or ask the man behind the counter. He does not have to sell you the paper clip. You just walked into the store and bought the paper clip because you wanted it.

    There is a very important Lesson Here.

    You can just build a general store. You can keep updating this general store with products. These can be affiliate products. But you arrange the general store in the way that people can come to it and find the product they want. Does Amazon ring a bell?

    You are overwhelmed by now.

    I know that you are thinking I am talking about Microsoft and Amazon and all the big guys what happens to this little guy like me. I don't have a friend like Paul Allen who will do marketing for me. I don't even have brains like Jeff Bezos to build an Amazon. Then how can I get started.

    Here is the perfect solution.

    1. IDENTIFY THE RIGHT PRODUCT:

    Find a system instead of a product. Imagine if you were selling a Car. You are not going to do all the Marketing for the Car. The car manufacturer does that.

    In the same manner there are affiliate products that are systems. These systems have the complete process of selling. So you don't have to do anything. You just need to learn how to find the traffic by placing ads on Google or Bing or Facebook or Media or Solo Vendors etc.

    2. BECOME PART OF THIS SYSTEM.

    Usually such systems are not free. They require you to become part of the System by paying some fee for Partnership or Franchise or Training. Once you pay this fee you can also drive traffic to these systems. With the methods I mentioned above.

    3. SEND TRAFFIC

    50% of people of approximately 3.5 Billion People use the Internet. If you are selling a product that has commission of $10 and you want to make $1000 every month then you will need to find the 100 people who need this system. As I mentioned you don't need to market. The marketing is already done by the system. You just need to place your ads in such a way that people go and see the marketing which is already in place.

    If you have a system that can give you commission of $100 per product sold then you just need 10 people every month for the same system to make $1000.

    Now the only cost you need to figure out is your Advertisement Cost. Yes you will need to spend some money in advertisement.

    Example of a Promotion I did Online.

    For e.g. I did a promotion on Bing Ads for 1 Month. I spent $216 in that I sold about 47 units of $18 commission. So I made $846 commission. My profit for this campaign was $846 - $216 = $630

    This was purely using advertisement to run the campaign.

    If you can figure out how to do advertising and you figure out for every $1 you spend can you get $2 or $3 or $5 or $10 back. Then you don't have to do any marketing.

    Please understand that Advertising is a Static form of Marketing where you generally don't come in touch with the Customer.

    You place the Ads. The customer clicks on the Ads and visits the Product Website. The Product Website Markets to this Customer. The Customer Buys the Product. You get a commission from the sale of the product.

    You are no where in picture.

    CONCLUSION:

    If you think you can do it OR if you think you cannot do it. Either ways you are right. By Henry Ford.

    Please understand that not everyone needs to have all the skills. In fact any individual is able to use only 1% of knowledge he has. Some people are able to use 5% of the knowledge they have. They are quite rich and affluent in the society. And very few can use about 20% of the knowledge they have. They are the millionaires and billionaires of the society.

    So make a list of skills and talents you have. Then you identify how you can use these skills and talents on the internet.

    Internet is a vast ocean. There are more than millions of ways to make a living on that. You just need to use one for yourself.

    Hope I am able to help you. Best of Luck for your success.

    Stay focused, Stay Rich.
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    • Profile picture of the author GaiaGoddess
      Originally Posted by Amit Patel View Post

      Think about a general store. You know everything they sell at the general store. The person behind the counter does not have to sell you anything. When you want paper clips you will go and find it on the shelf or ask the man behind the counter. He does not have to sell you the paper clip. You just walked into the store and bought the paper clip because you wanted it.

      There is a very important Lesson Here.

      You can just build a general store. You can keep updating this general store with products. These can be affiliate products. But you arrange the general store in the way that people can come to it and find the product they want. Does Amazon ring a bell?
      I am glad you used this example, because I have been trying to get this point across and nobody seems to get what i'm saying. But this example explains it perfectly. This example is the only way I have ever bought anything. I am the enemy of marketers. That is why I feel like I would not make a good marketer, because I don't need to see ads to tell me what to buy, I am not going to be a victim of manipulation and brainwashing. I am a shopper that has a mind of her own. I'm a minimalist who only buys the bare minimum of anything. So I am just the wrong kind of person to be working in sales, marketing, advertising etc. It all goes against my values. The ONLY reason I have wanted to have an online business is because I hate conventional jobs that much. It's the lesser of the two evils.

      1. IDENTIFY THE RIGHT PRODUCT:

      Find a system instead of a product. Imagine if you were selling a Car. You are not going to do all the Marketing for the Car. The car manufacturer does that.

      In the same manner there are affiliate products that are systems. These systems have the complete process of selling. So you don't have to do anything. You just need to learn how to find the traffic by placing ads on Google or Bing or Facebook or Media or Solo Vendors etc.

      2. BECOME PART OF THIS SYSTEM.

      Usually such systems are not free. They require you to become part of the System by paying some fee for Partnership or Franchise or Training. Once you pay this fee you can also drive traffic to these systems. With the methods I mentioned above.

      3. SEND TRAFFIC

      50% of people of approximately 3.5 Billion People use the Internet. If you are selling a product that has commission of $10 and you want to make $1000 every month then you will need to find the 100 people who need this system. As I mentioned you don't need to market. The marketing is already done by the system. You just need to place your ads in such a way that people go and see the marketing which is already in place.

      If you have a system that can give you commission of $100 per product sold then you just need 10 people every month for the same system to make $1000.

      Please understand that Advertising is a Static form of Marketing where you generally don't come in touch with the Customer.

      You place the Ads. The customer clicks on the Ads and visits the Product Website. The Product Website Markets to this Customer. The Customer Buys the Product. You get a commission from the sale of the product.

      You are no where in picture.
      I think this sounds good, actually. I could place ads and go about my day and wait for people to click on the ads and I would have nothing to do with the transaction, and I would get paid. But it's not that simple. What are the steps leading up to the ad being placed? I tried this once and not a single person clicked on my ad, or I should say, not a single person bought the product.

      So make a list of skills and talents you have. Then you identify how you can use these skills and talents on the internet.

      Internet is a vast ocean. There are more than millions of ways to make a living on that. You just need to use one for yourself.
      This is also not as simple as it sounds. I have spent the last decade at least, making lists of my talents and skills and trying to make a living utilizing those. I have literally done this so many times that my list has evolved over the years. That is why I think what the problem is is me just not being cut out for anything where I have to advertise and market something. I just wish somewhere out there was a huge list of every single way there is to earn money online and have them split into sections where you can see off the bat what all the steps are, so you can know right away if it's something you could do.
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  • Profile picture of the author tagiscom
    Originally Posted by GaiaGoddess View Post

    I have finally come to the conclusion that I am not cut out for anything requiring any type of marketing. I think it's because deep down I feel like if you have to advertise for something, it can't be that important or necessary therefore the person just wants money from you. I mean lets face it, if someone truly wants or needs something, they don't have to be convinced to buy it. I have tried to change this mindset but it just goes against every cell in my body. I would actually feel guilty if I made a product and then tried to get people to buy it from me. When I want something, I find it on Amazon and order it, or go to a store that sells that thing, no advertising necessary. Maybe it's because I'm a minimalist hippie who has few possessions and values only freedom, nature, love and music. My circle of peers aren't the kind of people who spend money on things they don't need. Most people I know create art or music and they never advertise, in fact the best painter I have ever seen in my life only sells her paintings at small local music festivals and they average from $500 to $3000 a piece. She doesn't need an Etsy account or a website. I am wondering if maybe the reason why I haven't been motivated enough to start earning money online is because the marketing side of it goes against my values and who I am as a person. I do want to earn money working online though, I want something that is location independent and something I don't need to leave the house to do. I want something that I don't have to trade my time for. Is it possible for someone like me to be successful with this? Maybe there is a way to earn money online without selling something? Or at least not needing to advertise for it?
    You could also learn Photoshop, or create music, software, etc and sell it on Graphicriver, (or one of its subsidiaries) or eventually Creativemarket.

    Both of these platforms require you to Show only the product and demonstrate its assets.

    And they don't require cheesy sales tactics, so if you do the same product over and over, you just cut and paste the tech, side of it, and then upload the whatever.

    So it is like selling guitars at a market with a sign saying, "second hand, one owner, $20 bucks, no strings attached, (lol)".

    Instead of....

    Buy this Slightly used, in excellent condition Wonder of the Pre modern Age, blah, blah...

    Option B is selling, or probably what is p*** you off, the first is just describing it, nothing underhanded in that.

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    • Profile picture of the author GaiaGoddess
      Originally Posted by tagiscom View Post

      You could also learn Photoshop, or create music, software, etc and sell it on Graphicriver, (or one of its subsidiaries) or eventually Creativemarket.

      Both of these platforms require you to Show only the product and demonstrate its assets.

      And they don't require cheesy sales tactics, so if you do the same product over and over, you just cut and paste the tech, side of it, and then upload the whatever.

      So it is like selling guitars at a market with a sign saying, "second hand, one owner, $20 bucks, no strings attached, (lol)".

      Instead of....

      Buy this Slightly used, in excellent condition Wonder of the Pre modern Age, blah, blah...

      Option B is selling, or probably what is p*** you off, the first is just describing it, nothing underhanded in that.

      None of that stuff sounds even remotely like anything I've ever done, lol Create software? I never went to school for that. I need something way below the skill level you're talking.
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  • Profile picture of the author wahoowad
    You are starting from the wrong perspective. You need to have a good product or service, then be worrying about how to offer it to people. If you just want money then you are asking for a job and there are plenty of those.

    Create something of value then help people find it
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    • Profile picture of the author GaiaGoddess
      Originally Posted by wahoowad View Post

      You are starting from the wrong perspective. You need to have a good product or service, then be worrying about how to offer it to people. If you just want money then you are asking for a job and there are plenty of those.

      Create something of value then help people find it
      That is what I'm trying to do, figure out what I could do or make. But I am only doing it because I need money, if I didn't need money I would just enjoy all my hobbies whenever I feel like doing each one and this wouldn't be an issue.
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  • Profile picture of the author Frank Donovan
    Originally Posted by GaiaGoddess View Post

    I have finally come to the conclusion that I am not cut out for anything requiring any type of marketing.
    Marketing is about cultivating and managing an image. I spent over 20 years in the record industry - back when there actually was a record industry - and many musicians would claim they wanted nothing to do with selling or the unsavoury business of manipulating an "image". They didn't want their artistic credibility tainted by the tawdry machinations of commerce and marketing. What most of them didn't realize, but what all music industry executives well knew, was that the rejection of an "image" was in itself an image - and usually a lucrative one. While, no doubt, some of the buyers of those paintings at the festivals you mentioned were motivated purely by the art, still more were buying into the idea of an independent artist outside the system, and what owning that piece of art said about them and their perceived image of themselves.

    Like it or not, we all have an image of ourselves we try to cultivate.

    I've yet to meet an artist who didn't want others to view, hear or experience their work. Selling copies of your art is validation that what you create is appreciated by someone else and not just a work of self-indulgence. It has value. Once you accept that, the process of letting people know about your work is just that - a process. It's nothing to be precious about.
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  • Profile picture of the author germainmahjub
    You are worrying without any big reason. You can always improve the aspects you are weak at.
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    • Profile picture of the author GaiaGoddess
      Originally Posted by germainmahjub View Post

      You are worrying without any big reason. You can always improve the aspects you are weak at.
      I have tried, that is why I am saying I am not cut out for this. It's just not working for me. It feels wrong and I want to find a way that better fits with my values, personality and skills (the few I have, lol)
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  • Profile picture of the author OptedIn
    I have only one question? What do you have to offer the world, other than a sense of entitlement that dictates that you should not have to abide by the laws of commerce that everyone else is obliged to adhere to?

    Honestly, you just come across as incredibly lazy and unwilling to do anything, at all.
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    • Profile picture of the author GaiaGoddess
      Originally Posted by OptedIn View Post

      I have only one question? What do you have to offer the world, other than a sense of entitlement that dictates that you should not have to abide by the laws of commerce that everyone else is obliged to adhere to?

      Honestly, you just come across as incredibly lazy and unwilling to do anything, at all.
      Everyone has something to offer, we all have gifts. My gifts have just always been certain skills I have picked up working regular jobs. But they don't transfer to online. I never said I am unwilling to do anything at all, I said I am not cut out for marketing. There HAVE to be ways to earn money online without building landing pages, having an email list, launching ad campaigns, using SEO to rank high on Google, etc. Those are all the aggressive parts of earning money online, they are a separate thing from creating the product or performing the service.
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  • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
    Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

    If you sell products/info that people you know will want to buy...you are providing them with a service....not forcing advertising on them. There is a difference.


    If you have a hobby or a craft - why not work in that niche and sell products you believe in?
    This is the real key.

    Ethical marketing is all about connecting people who already want something with the means of getting that thing.

    Your hippy artist friend understands this already. People who buy their paintings want something unique and appealing to them to decorate their home or office. Your friend provides that, for a price. And they understand that people likely to be attracted to their work also attend the various festivals, and such.

    You could do worse than sitting down with this painter and discussing your concerns.

    "Marketing" doesn't mean turning yourself into a boardwalk pitchman or medicine show snake oil salesperson. If you can sell a product, your own or as an affiliate, that you truly believe will make a difference in peoples' ;lives, marketing is very simple and transparent. You simply do things (like exhibiting at festivals, as your artist friend does) that put your product in front of people looking for what your product offers.

    Hate to put it like this, but if you can't get past your reluctance to market, trading time for money is the only other way to make money without leaving home.
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    • Profile picture of the author OptedIn
      Originally Posted by JohnMcCabe View Post

      Hate to put it like this, but if you can't get past your reluctance to market,
      This isn't about a reluctance to market, It's about an aversion to work.

      I suggest you dig up some of her old threads from a couple of months, ago. One word: illuminating.
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      • Profile picture of the author GaiaGoddess
        Originally Posted by OptedIn View Post

        This isn't about a reluctance to market, It's about an aversion to work.

        I suggest you dig up some of her old threads from a couple of months, ago. One word: illuminating.
        Well lets be honest, we're all working because we have to. It's the only way to survive in life. We're kinda forced to do it (or take drastic measures which most of us won't do). How can you blame someone for having an aversion towards work when it's the only thing keeping them from being truly happy? I quit my job a few weeks ago and I have never been so happy and stress free in my life. I am so happy that I am actually getting a full nights sleep and my body is actually functioning in a healthy way now (I wont go into detail on that one). My body and soul are saying thank you. There is no doubt in my mind I couldn't ever be this happy if I had to work. I can't make my money last forever though, so I NEED to find another way to earn money. You are fooling yourself if you think you would keep working if you didn't have to.
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        • Profile picture of the author OptedIn
          Originally Posted by GaiaGoddess View Post

          You are fooling yourself if you think you would keep working if you didn't have to.
          That's ridiculous. I haven't had to work for years. I still do so because I love the satisfaction it brings me, the ability to stay sharp as a tack and the ability to contribute something of worth to others.

          I've tried not working, even now that I am formally retired. Even though I am enjoying more time for idle pursuits, working is something I have always enjoyed and still do - immensely!

          I will continue to work, everyday, at some level. If I die sitting at my desk, working, that will be fine with me. There are worse fates in life.
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          • Profile picture of the author GaiaGoddess
            Originally Posted by OptedIn View Post

            That's ridiculous. I haven't had to work for years. I still do so because I love the satisfaction it brings me, the ability to stay sharp as a tack and the ability to contribute something of worth to others.

            I've tried not working, even now that I am formally retired. Even though I am enjoying more time for idle pursuits, working is something I have always enjoyed and still do - immensely!

            I will continue to work, everyday, at some level. If I die sitting at my desk, working, that will be fine with me. There are worse fates in life.
            Well you're definitely in the minority, you have to at least admit that. Most people don't like working and only do it for money and can't wait til they can win the lottery, inherit money, or retire.
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            • Profile picture of the author OptedIn
              Originally Posted by GaiaGoddess View Post

              Well you're definitely in the minority, you have to at least admit that. Most people don't like working and only do it for money and can't wait til they can win the lottery, inherit money, or retire.
              No. I'm not so sure. Only people with no self-worth dream of

              1. hitting the lottery (Never played it and never will).

              2. Inherit money (None coming that I know of. I'm leaving much more than I could ever hope to get. My friends at the SPCA can't wait until I die. lol)

              3. Retire (fastest way to keel over dead if you're brain is still function and if you approach each new day with zest and curiosity. I'm still learning something new, every day.

              I'm wondering if the word 'zest; is in your personal lexicon. :-)
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              • Profile picture of the author GaiaGoddess
                Originally Posted by OptedIn View Post

                No. I'm not so sure. Only people with no self-worth dream of

                1. hitting the lottery (Never played it and never will).

                2. Inherit money (None coming that I know of. I'm leaving much more than I could ever hope to get. My friends at the SPCA can't wait until I die. lol)

                3. Retire (fastest way to keel over dead if you're brain is still function and if you approach each new day with zest and curiosity. I'm still learning something new, every day.

                I'm wondering if the word 'zest; is in your personal lexicon. :-)
                Oh trust me I see what you mean about what happens when people retire. It happened to my dad, he was perfectly healthy his entire life until he was 65 then almost immediately he had one thing after another and died a few years later. All he did after retiring was sit in his easy chair and watch tv. Sometimes he would go to the casino. That is what you call not having a zest for life. I couldn't be any more opposite of my dad. My favorite things to do in life are learn and explore. That is why I have always taken classes (I am in the middle of 4 classes right now).

                So getting back to what you said about not wanting to retire because you love what you do, for me retiring would be the only way that I CAN do what I love to do.
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  • Profile picture of the author Kay King
    I thought this looked familiar - so perhaps the question the OP needs to answer is this:


    Has ANYTHING changed since you you posted the thread below 3 years ago? If so, what changes have you made? What have you done to improve your job prospects? What have you DONE to build an online presence or income?



    https://www.warriorforum.com/main-in...ey-online.html
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    • Profile picture of the author OptedIn
      Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

      Has ANYTHING changed since you you posted the thread below 3 years ago?
      There are more recent posts than those - equally as inane. I think we're being trolled. :-)
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      • Profile picture of the author GaiaGoddess
        Originally Posted by OptedIn View Post

        There are more recent posts than those - equally as inane. I think we're being trolled. :-)
        You're calling my posts stupid!? I thought this was supposed to be a support group? Why would I waste my time trolling, what benefit would that serve me? I can't make this stuff up.
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        • Profile picture of the author OptedIn
          Originally Posted by GaiaGoddess View Post

          You're calling my posts stupid!? I thought this was supposed to be a support group?
          There's a difference between supporting someone and enabling them. Where did you ever get the idea that this place is a 'support group?' It's an Internet marketing forum. You really are confused.

          Why would I waste my time trolling, what benefit would that serve me?
          Well, apparently you can't come up with anything better to do with your life, so you will spend all of your time here moaning about your inability to do anything.

          I can't make this stuff up.
          Oh, I know this is real for you. That's the sad part.

          Having Goddess in your user name tells me all I need to know about you. You think you're privileged and should not have to live life by the same rules as us lowly peons who must scratch and claw out an existence, until we reach a point of success and comfort as a reward for our determined efforts. You think you're above that and that the world should just hand you everything you want, just for breathing and gracing the universe with your presence.

          There are blind, deaf, crippled, emotionally or intellectually challenged people everywhere - that get up everyday and fend for themselves and work to be deemed contributing members of society, most with nary a complaint, I'm sure. Thrilled to have the opportunity.

          You? You continually embarrass yourself with your pissing and moaning about your lot in life. I guarantee you one thing. When you run out of your savings you'll be singing a different song at the top of your lungs. You'll have to lower yourself and get a job in order to survive, because you will never find a way to produce a viable income in any other way. You simply don't possess the attributes required for success. I'm not telling you anything you don't already know. We all know what we're made of. We all know what we're capable of. We all know where we're headed and we all know how we're going to wind up.

          Life isn''t the big mystery that people make it out to be, especially when the handwriting is on the wall.
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          • Profile picture of the author GaiaGoddess
            Originally Posted by OptedIn View Post

            There's a difference between supporting someone and enabling them. Where did you ever get the idea that this place is a 'support group?' It's an Internet marketing forum. You really are confused.
            All forums are support groups...the majority of posts are people asking for help, advice, suggestions, etc. I have never seen a forum that wasn't like this.

            Well, apparently you can't come up with anything better to do with your life, so you will spend all of your time here moaning about your inability to do anything.
            If I wanted to moan about my "inability to do anything", I would go to a general life forum or go to a therapist. I am in here because I know what the problem is and the only way to solve it is to explore all the alternatives to find something that works for me.

            Having Goddess in your user name tells me all I need to know about you. You think you're privileged and should not have to live life by the same rules as us lowly peons who must scratch and claw out an existence, until we reach a point of success and comfort as a reward for our determined efforts. You think you're above that and that the world should just hand you everything you want, just for breathing and gracing the universe with your presence.
            Clearly you don't understand what the word goddess means and the rest of what you said is COMPLETELY off. A goddess is a female deity. It does not mean priviledged. We are ALL gods and goddesses because the entirety of humanity is one thing, one consciousness experiencing this reality through different bodies and perspectives. I do not think I am better than anyone nor is anyone better than me. We are all God.

            There are blind, deaf, crippled, emotionally or intellectually challenged people everywhere - that get up everyday and fend for themselves and work to be deemed contributing members of society, most with nary a complaint, I'm sure. Thrilled to have the opportunity.
            I consider myself one of those people, and I have always worked hard. I have a circadian rhythm disorder that IS recognized as a disability, I could pursue that and try to get out of work for it, but I'm not. And where are all these people that "aren't complaining", almost everyone I know complains about having to work and they are perfectly healthy!

            You? You continually embarrass yourself with your pissing and moaning about your lot in life. I guarantee you one thing. When you run out of your savings you'll be singing a different song at the top of your lungs. You'll have to lower yourself and get a job in order to survive, because you will never find a way to produce a viable income in any other way. You simply don't possess the attributes required for success. I'm not telling you anything you don't already know. We all know what we're made of. We all know what we're capable of. We all know where we're headed and we all know how we're going to wind up.

            Life isn''t the big mystery that people make it out to be, especially when the handwriting is on the wall.
            I am not embarrassing myself, maybe you are embarrassed for me but I am not. I am trying to find something that works for me. And if I have to get a normal job someday, I will not consider it "lowering myself", because humans are not set up in a hierarchy. Is that what YOU believe, that people who work normal jobs are lower than people who are entrepreneurs? I only want to earn money myself to avoid the things that make me unhappy about regular jobs. If you take away people's jobs, we're all the same species underneath. We are not our jobs. I have had "menial" jobs like scrubbing toilets and I have also had respectable jobs like being a prep cook for a kitchen that fed thousands of oil workers. Someone's value doesn't go up or down depending on what activity they do.
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            • Profile picture of the author OptedIn
              Originally Posted by GaiaGoddess View Post

              Someone's value doesn't go up or down depending on what activity they do.
              I hear you and if I was harsh - well . . . . . . I'm not known for being the forum's Mary Poppins.

              That said, a person's value does go down if they do nothing, as they are not a contributing member of society. They produce nothing of worth for themselves, or others.

              As I see it, you tend to have an excuse for everything. So, with that in mind, I will leave you to your path of personal discovery. I maintain that you're not going to learn anything about yourself that you don't already know.

              I can either do some meaningful work, or engage you in endless, fruitless conversation. I think I have made it very clear how I feel about that.

              One benefits me and the world around me and the other benefits no one, not even you. If I believed that it did, I would gladly continue the intercourse.

              Good luck. :-)
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              • Profile picture of the author GaiaGoddess
                Originally Posted by OptedIn View Post

                That said, a person's value does go down if they do nothing, as they are not a contributing member of society. They produce nothing of worth for themselves, or others.
                I don't believe that. If a person isn't doing anything "of worth", they still have potential, as long as you're breathing you have potential. That's really all humans do is live up to some percentage of their potential. I may not have a job right now but that doesn't mean i'm a worthless human being. If you'd ask my mom, she'd say I'm priceless, lol My point is humans are valuable regardless of what their job is or even if they have a job. If that were true, all
                children and retired people would be worthless.

                As I see it, you tend to have an excuse for everything. So, with that in mind, I will leave you to your path of personal discovery. I maintain that you're not going to learn anything about yourself that you don't already know.
                I don't have an excuse for everything, I have reasons for why things that don't work for me don't work. If I were to ask you why you aren't a plumber, you would have reasons. That logic can work both ways. And I am not trying to learn something about myself that I don't already know, I am trying to find a way to earn money that works for me. They're not even the same thing.
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                • Profile picture of the author OptedIn
                  Originally Posted by GaiaGoddess View Post

                  I don't believe that. If a person isn't doing anything "of worth", they still have potential, as long as you're breathing you have potential.
                  Potential is meaningless. Maximizing your potential is what adds value to your life and I'm not just talking about money.

                  That's really all humans do is live up to some percentage of their potential.
                  And some peg the meter at zero. :-)

                  I may not have a job right now but that doesn't mean i'm a worthless human being.
                  I would never say you are worthless. I would just say that you currently bring no value to the world around you. What do you do to contribute? Work at a animal shelter? Tutor a child? Clean a beach or a park? Anything???

                  Crickets.

                  If you'd ask my mom, she'd say I'm priceless, lol
                  That might be part of your problem. lol

                  My point is humans are valuable regardless of what their job is or even if they have a job. If that were true, all children and retired people would be worthless.
                  Don't try to twist the logic of the concept into a pretzel. You're simply being too cute by half. You know very well what we're talking about.

                  I don't have an excuse for everything, I have reasons for why things that don't work for me don't work.
                  That's not an excuse?

                  If I were to ask you why you aren't a plumber, you would have reasons.
                  Of course, because I never aspired to be a plumber. But I have aspired to do many other things in life and have managed to do most of the things that matter the most to me.

                  That logic can work both ways. And I am not trying to learn something about myself that I don't already know, I am trying to find a way to earn money that works for me. They're not even the same thing.
                  The answer, unfortunately, is the same. Unless you expand your willingness to do something that isn't exactly what you want, you probably won't find anythingt.

                  OK. You got me to respond, again - but that's it. No more. lol

                  Anymore will cost you $125 an hour on Skype.
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                  • Profile picture of the author GaiaGoddess
                    Originally Posted by OptedIn View Post

                    I would never say you are worthless. I would just say that you currently bring no value to the world around you. What do you do to contribute? Work at a animal shelter? Tutor a child? Clean a beach or a park? Anything???

                    Crickets.
                    The value I bring is not by things I do, its just by existing, like everyone else. I feel like I'm being too metaphysical for this forum. I believe all humans are equally worthy just by being alive.

                    That might be part of your problem. lol
                    Everyone's mother thinks her children are priceless, I am not special that my mom does. Unless your mom is a heartless serial killer, she thinks you are priceless too.

                    Don't try to twist the logic of the concept into a pretzel. You're simply being too cute by half. You know very well what we're talking about.
                    Cute? No I just see the world differently than most people do, and to me someone asking why I don't do ___ is the same as me asking them why they don't do ____.

                    That's not an excuse?
                    No, apparently what is a reason to me is an excuse to you. Not every reason is an excuse; (copied from a website)"Reason vs Excuse

                    A reason for not doing something.

                    If someone offers an explanation for why he can't do something, then, in order for it to be judged as a reason, it should be: logical, factual, verifiable, a one-off event, unavoidable, and commensurate.

                    Excuse
                    If someone offers an explanation why he can't do something, then, in order for it to be judged as an excuse it will be:

                    False (a lie), illogical, un-verifiable, multiple use of the same old story, inconsistent, avoidable, foreseeable, disproportionate.

                    Example: I can't come into work today because my hamster is sick.

                    Don't get these two mixed up!"

                    The answer, unfortunately, is the same. Unless you expand your willingness to do something that isn't exactly what you want, you probably won't find anythingt.
                    Accepting something that isn't exactly what you want is called settling and that's what I've done my entire life. It has not worked. Life is too short to settle and be unhappy.

                    OK. You got me to respond, again - but that's it. No more. lol

                    Anymore will cost you $125 an hour on Skype.
                    Sorry, just stop replying to me and I won't have anything to reply to.
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                    • Profile picture of the author OptedIn
                      Originally Posted by GaiaGoddess View Post

                      I believe all humans are equally worthy just by being alive.
                      Really? Thieves, murderers, sociopaths, psychopaths, arsonists, terrorists, pedophiles, wife-beaters, tyrannical rulers - shall I go on? :-)
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                      • Profile picture of the author GaiaGoddess
                        Originally Posted by OptedIn View Post

                        Really? Thieves, murderers, sociopaths, psychopaths, arsonists, terrorists, pedophiles, wife-beaters, tyrannical rulers - shall I go on? :-)
                        I found an excerpt from an article that explains this better than I can...

                        "Everything that anyone could ever possibly do - that may require forgiveness - is an expression of fear. And fear is a call for love. It is a call for help. So people who, for example, commit crimes, small or large, are in truth asking for help because they have chosen fear, or separation, over love, or oneness. That's why they thought they have to attack. Only fearful people attack."

                        So yes, I believe all humans are equally worthy of love, it's most likely the "horrible" people that need it more. There is a tribe in some country, I forget where it was...if a member of the tribe does any wrongdoing, they put them in a circle and all go around telling the person good things about them. Somehow this makes the "criminal" change. And there is also Cognitive Behavioral Therapy which has already been proven to help criminals change their ways.
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                        • Profile picture of the author OptedIn
                          Originally Posted by GaiaGoddess View Post

                          I found an excerpt from an article that explains this better than I can...

                          "Everything that anyone could ever possibly do - that may require forgiveness - is an expression of fear. And fear is a call for love. It is a call for help. So people who, for example, commit crimes, small or large, are in truth asking for help because they have chosen fear, or separation, over love, or oneness. That's why they thought they have to attack. Only fearful people attack."

                          So yes, I believe all humans are equally worthy of love, it's most likely the "horrible" people that need it more. There is a tribe in some country, I forget where it was...if a member of the tribe does any wrongdoing, they put them in a circle and all go around telling the person good things about them. Somehow this makes the "criminal" change. And there is also Cognitive Behavioral Therapy which has already been proven to help criminals change their ways.
                          Psychobabble, mumbo-jumbo, or in a word - tripe. Should you ever encounter anyone with the personality traits possessed by those on my list of miscreants, be sure to afford them all the love you are capable of giving. We'll see how that works out for you.
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                          • Profile picture of the author GaiaGoddess
                            Originally Posted by OptedIn View Post

                            Psychobabble, mumbo-jumbo, or in a word - tripe. Should you ever encounter anyone with the personality traits possessed by those on my list of miscreants, be sure to afford them all the love you are capable of giving. We'll see how that works out for you.
                            It's not psychobabble mumbo jumbo, it's a fact! You can find the results all over the internet of this being successful.
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                            • Profile picture of the author OptedIn
                              Originally Posted by GaiaGoddess View Post

                              It's not psychobabble mumbo jumbo, it's a fact! You can find the results all over the internet of this being successful.
                              "Everything that anyone could ever possibly do - that may require forgiveness - is an expression of fear. And fear is a call for love. It is a call for help. So people who, for example, commit crimes, small or large, are in truth asking for help because they have chosen fear, or separation, over love, or oneness. That's why they thought they have to attack. Only fearful people attack."

                              This is one person's opinion. If you choose to believe it and live your life by this belief, that's fine, just please don't state it as fact because you read it on the Internet.

                              If you don't like the term, "psychobabble, mumbo-jumbo," then let's just go with my other option - tripe.
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                              • Profile picture of the author GaiaGoddess
                                Originally Posted by OptedIn View Post

                                "Everything that anyone could ever possibly do - that may require forgiveness - is an expression of fear. And fear is a call for love. It is a call for help. So people who, for example, commit crimes, small or large, are in truth asking for help because they have chosen fear, or separation, over love, or oneness. That's why they thought they have to attack. Only fearful people attack."

                                This is one person's opinion. If you choose to believe it and live your life by this belief, that's fine, just please don't state it as fact because you read it on the Internet.

                                If you don't like the term, "psychobabble, mumbo-jumbo," then let's just go with my other option - tripe.
                                How can you tell me not to state something as fact if you think it's an opinion, but then tell me something is tripe? That is also an opinion.
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                                • Profile picture of the author OptedIn
                                  Originally Posted by GaiaGoddess View Post

                                  That is also an opinion.
                                  Yes, but it's an informed opinion, based on reading what you wrote.

                                  Let's agree to disagree and leave it there.

                                  I'll activate the ignore feature. Good luck and goodbye.
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    • Profile picture of the author GaiaGoddess
      Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

      I thought this looked familiar - so perhaps the question the OP needs to answer is this:


      Has ANYTHING changed since you you posted the thread below 3 years ago? If so, what changes have you made? What have you done to improve your job prospects? What have you DONE to build an online presence or income?



      https://www.warriorforum.com/main-in...ey-online.html
      Nope, nothing has changed since then. In the last 3 years I have continued to try to figure out what a good job would be for me. And I have bounced around to 5 jobs since then. 5 jobs in 3 years. I have now had a total of somewhere around 13 or 14 jobs total in my life. Clearly having a conventional job isn't for me.

      To answer your last 2 questions, I am trying to make those things happen but just haven't been able to. I have even started other FB pages since that other post but the same thing happens, I lose interest because it doesn't feel fun anymore.
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  • Profile picture of the author Kay King
    True - and to be fair to the OP there are others who post the same problems over time and never seem to get past those same problems. Not unusual.


    That particular thread had a lot of good advice in it - some wakeup calls - and three years is a long time to be stuck in the same place.


    If the basic problem is 'I do't want to work and don't see why I should have to do something I don't want to do' - there isn't much you do to help.
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    • Profile picture of the author OptedIn
      Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

      If the basic problem is 'I do't want to work and don't see why I should have to do something I don't want to do' - there isn't much you do to help.
      True, but what's sadder still, is that people will actually believe that they are going to come-up with the perfect solution to this person's problem, thereby changing their life forever.

      As you're wasting your time trying to accomplish this, it's good to remind yourself that your time is precious and there's no window you can step up to with a sign that reads, "Reclaim your wasted time and effort, here."
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    • Profile picture of the author GaiaGoddess
      Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

      True - and to be fair to the OP there are others who post the same problems over time and never seem to get past those same problems. Not unusual.


      That particular thread had a lot of good advice in it - some wakeup calls - and three years is a long time to be stuck in the same place.


      If the basic problem is 'I do't want to work and don't see why I should have to do something I don't want to do' - there isn't much you do to help.
      I just don't see the point in getting out of the rat race only to do something else you don't want to do. The whole point of me quitting my job was to finally make something happen and do what makes me happy. That should show how serious I am about it. It isn't about not being willing to work, it's about not settling anymore.
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  • Profile picture of the author Kay King
    know you have to wear many hats when you have an online business
    In my view, you have to wear many hats just to get through life on a daily basis.

    Of course 'passive income' appeals to many people - they use it as a buzzword but it doesn't exist until long after you've done a LOT of work online...if then.

    Dave's idea above is one that's been mentioned to you in previous threads....you can walk away from the computer when you want as long as you spend enough time there to get the writing work completed.

    The ability to write well in English - and type quickly/accurately on a keyboard - are useful skills that can be highly profitable...but you need to apply them.

    No matter what you try - you WILL be out of your comfort zone Deal with it - give it a shot.
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    • Profile picture of the author GaiaGoddess
      Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

      In my view, you have to wear many hats just to get through life on a daily basis.
      Yeah but daily life stuff is stuff we already all know how to do, it isn't even a struggle.

      Of course 'passive income' appeals to many people - they use it as a buzzword but it doesn't exist until long after you've done a LOT of work online...if then.
      So basically everyone out there who teaches passive income is lying to us? But I trusted Pat Flynn!
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  • Profile picture of the author tagiscom
    Originally Posted by GaiaGoddess View Post

    None of that stuff sounds even remotely like anything I've ever done, lol Create software? I never went to school for that. I need something way below the skill level you're talking.

    No, Gaia, l paid a team in India, that created some WP software for me some time ago; it costed me $130 and phew l think 6 weeks all up, and it made $1,300 all up, which sounds great, but most of that went to affiliate's, so l made a few hundred all up, for a H*ll of a lot of effort.

    As for Photoshop work, yes a lot of effort also, (6 months minimum to learn it, a year or more to get good at it).

    But in GR, you just create and submit, and earn more over time. It does have a review team, but their high standards only helps you to achieve more.

    But you could also try Photodune, or take pictures and sell them, (obviously easier said than done) but if you have a camara, it is a relatively quick startup business.

    You could also consider Fiverr, but that has a earning ceiling and it has to be effort for money.

    The previous options are creating a Portfolio of an ever increasing product range, where you only need to work on the product, they take care of traffic and order issues.

    This obviously takes time, effort and maybe some money, but once you do one product it will earn for years or indefinitely, (l did a wedding flyer years ago, and it keeps selling).

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    • Profile picture of the author GaiaGoddess
      Originally Posted by tagiscom View Post

      No, Gaia, l paid a team in India, that created some WP software for me some time ago; it costed me $130 and phew l think 6 weeks all up, and it made $1,300 all up, which sounds great, but most of that went to affiliate's, so l made a few hundred all up, for a H*ll of a lot of effort.

      As for Photoshop work, yes a lot of effort also, (6 months minimum to learn it, a year or more to get good at it).

      But in GR, you just create and submit, and earn more over time. It does have a review team, but their high standards only helps you to achieve more.

      But you could also try Photodune, or take pictures and sell them, (obviously easier said than done) but if you have a camara, it is a relatively quick startup business.

      You could also consider Fiverr, but that has a earning ceiling and it has to be effort for money.

      The previous options are creating a Portfolio of an ever increasing product range, where you only need to work on the product, they take care of traffic and order issues.

      This obviously takes time, effort and maybe some money, but once you do one product it will earn for years or indefinitely, (l did a wedding flyer years ago, and it keeps selling).

      I have a ton of my pictures up on a few sites, as well as products with my pictures on them. They've been up for almost 3 years now and I haven't sold anything. As for photoshop, I did have that for a while so I could improve the pictures I took, but lost interest in it pretty quickly. I hated the tedious editing to get the picture looking good and then it hit me why I didn't like it, the end result wasn't even a real picture! It was computer generated, pretty much. What is the point of taking pictures of nature if you're gonna edit them?

      I had (and probably still do have) an ad on Fiverr for proofreading. It's been on there for about 2 years now. Never got a single offer.

      I do like the idea though, of creating something and selling it on one of those platforms. That is why I was looking into Etsy. I just don't know what I want to create, that's the problem. If it isn't coming from a place of passion, I'll probably lose interest in it. In fact I lose interest even if I am passionate about it (like my photography).
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  • Profile picture of the author Mark Singletary
    To answer your question which was

    Not cut out for marketing...can I still make a living online?
    My answer is no. No, you can't.

    I can or other people can. But you can't. Because you won't. You have too many excuses, too many reasons, want too much freedom (without earning it), etc. etc. etc.

    I don't have to look up your posts from years ago. I remember the storyline very clearly.

    You were set on the AWAI research program, right? Why didn't you finish that? You were convinced that was the answer because you loved to surf the internet.

    In a class for children years ago, I learned this saying that has stuck with me. I forget the exact setup but it was something like a child's mother asked him to pick up his toys. The boy defiantly said

    I would if I could, I could if I would, but I won't!
    This applies to you from everything I've seen.

    Until you make a decision and stick to it, your lack of success is simply because you don't want to have success because you think your case is special in some way.

    And, spare me any "how dare you" or similar comeback. What I have written here is absolutely true even if it may sting a bit. How do I know? Because early on I made tons of excuses and didn't listen to anyone trying to help me either. I had to work hard to overcome that character flaw.

    Mark
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    • Profile picture of the author GaiaGoddess
      Originally Posted by Mark Singletary View Post

      To answer your question which was

      My answer is no. No, you can't.

      I can or other people can. But you can't. Because you won't. You have too many excuses, too many reasons, want too much freedom (without earning it), etc. etc. etc.
      But if other people are doing it, that means it works, and if something works, I want to try it! That is the exact answer I was looking for so why not tell me how they are doing it? My "excuses" as you call them wouldn't apply to something that is exactly what I am looking for. If you were trying to find someone to marry and kept dating duds of course you would find reasons not to stay with them but if you met "the one" you would marry her! Same concept with this.

      I don't have to look up your posts from years ago. I remember the storyline very clearly.

      You were set on the AWAI research program, right? Why didn't you finish that? You were convinced that was the answer because you loved to surf the internet.
      If I remember right, it also involved marketing and a website and all the same stuff I don't like doing. I don't even remember which course I took on AWAI because I quickly forgot about it when I realized it wouldn't be a good fit for me.

      In a class for children years ago, I learned this saying that has stuck with me. I forget the exact setup but it was something like a child's mother asked him to pick up his toys. The boy defiantly said

      This applies to you from everything I've seen.

      Until you make a decision and stick to it, your lack of success is simply because you don't want to have success because you think your case is special in some way.

      And, spare me any "how dare you" or similar comeback. What I have written here is absolutely true even if it may sting a bit. How do I know? Because early on I made tons of excuses and didn't listen to anyone trying to help me either. I had to work hard to overcome that character flaw.

      Mark
      But my whole point is that I am not going to stick to a decision when it's the wrong one. To continue with my analogy above, you wouldn't just marry the wrong girl if you knew early on that she wasn't a good fit for you.
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  • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
    Originally Posted by GaiaGoddess View Post

    So basically everyone out there who teaches passive income is lying to us? But I trusted Pat Flynn!
    Go back and read Pat's story. Better yet, shoot him a message and ask him how long it took him to achieve "passive income" and how much work he had to do up front.

    Ask him how much he still works to maintain that "passive" income. Earlier today I watched one of his YT videos, and he mentioned that over the last several years he's done over 400 videos and 1300 podcast episodes. That's on top of two traditionally published books and countless blog posts.

    In return, he does get a pretty good "passive" income. But he does a hell of a lot of marketing to keeps those income streams going.

    So unless you can get past the roadblocks between your ears, I'll go back to the last advice I gave you in that three year old thread...

    Find yourself a sugar daddy.
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    • Profile picture of the author OptedIn
      Originally Posted by JohnMcCabe View Post

      Find yourself a sugar daddy.
      Even a sugar daddy will have expectations which I'm sure she'll find onerous.
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      • Profile picture of the author GaiaGoddess
        Originally Posted by OptedIn View Post

        Even a sugar daddy will have expectations which I'm sure she'll find onerous.
        I would never use someone for their money. I don't even want to get married even though my boyfriend does and I could be set for life because he makes more than I ever have. I have always been independent, I am not cut out for being a mooch.
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    • Profile picture of the author GaiaGoddess
      Originally Posted by JohnMcCabe View Post

      Go back and read Pat's story. Better yet, shoot him a message and ask him how long it took him to achieve "passive income" and how much work he had to do up front.

      Ask him how much he still works to maintain that "passive" income. Earlier today I watched one of his YT videos, and he mentioned that over the last several years he's done over 400 videos and 1300 podcast episodes. That's on top of two traditionally published books and countless blog posts.

      In return, he does get a pretty good "passive" income. But he does a hell of a lot of marketing to keeps those income streams going.

      So unless you can get past the roadblocks between your ears, I'll go back to the last advice I gave you in that three year old thread...

      Find yourself a sugar daddy.
      Pat Flynn wrote his first book and made $7000 in the FIRST MONTH. It didn't take him years to be successful. I am not saying he doesn't work hard but now he has a lot more on his plate so of course he has to work hard. But I don't need an income of 6 figures a month or even a year. All I am asking for is maybe $2000 a month. I don't need to even work as hard as he does.
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  • Profile picture of the author ryanbiddulph
    Sounds like some deep limiting beliefs you need to purge GG. Consider meditating daily. This helped me expand my awareness so I could feel all the fears I lived by for so many years. After feeling the fears, I released these energies and proceeded from a more clear, calm, empowered space. After letting go your limiting beliefs you can succeed in any online niche.
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    • Profile picture of the author GaiaGoddess
      Originally Posted by ryanbiddulph View Post

      Sounds like some deep limiting beliefs you need to purge GG. Consider meditating daily. This helped me expand my awareness so I could feel all the fears I lived by for so many years. After feeling the fears, I released these energies and proceeded from a more clear, calm, empowered space. After letting go your limiting beliefs you can succeed in any online niche.
      I do meditate, and I don't have any fears regarding why I don't have an internet job. I am getting more clarity about what I don't want and what I want.
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      • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
        Originally Posted by GaiaGoddess View Post

        Pat Flynn wrote his first book and made $7000 in the FIRST MONTH. It didn't take him years to be successful. I am not saying he doesn't work hard but now he has a lot more on his plate so of course he has to work hard. But I don't need an income of 6 figures a month or even a year. All I am asking for is maybe $2000 a month. I don't need to even work as hard as he does.
        Yes, Pat made $7,000 the first month his book came out. Check the dates and do some arithmetic -- how many years was Pat busy putting value online before that book came out?

        And when it did, he made that money by marketing the book -- something you say you're not willing to soil yourself with.
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        • Profile picture of the author GaiaGoddess
          Originally Posted by JohnMcCabe View Post

          Yes, Pat made $7,000 the first month his book came out. Check the dates and do some arithmetic -- how many years was Pat busy putting value online before that book came out?
          According to what I read, he got laid off in 2008 and his book came out in October so less than a year. He didn't start his website until after his book was out. He only had the LEED exam site which apparently took less than a year to get going.

          And when it did, he made that money by marketing the book -- something you say you're not willing to soil yourself with.
          He already had people interested before he even thought of writing the book though. He had visitors on his LEED site that he didn't even know were there, which means he obviously didn't market it if he wasn't even paying attention to if he even had visitors or not.
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      • Profile picture of the author tagiscom
        Originally Posted by GaiaGoddess View Post

        I have a ton of my pictures up on a few sites, as well as products with my pictures on them. They've been up for almost 3 years now and I haven't sold anything. As for photoshop, I did have that for a while so I could improve the pictures I took, but lost interest in it pretty quickly. I hated the tedious editing to get the picture looking good and then it hit me why I didn't like it, the end result wasn't even a real picture! It was computer generated, pretty much. What is the point of taking pictures of nature if you're gonna edit them?

        I had (and probably still do have) an ad on Fiverr for proofreading. It's been on there for about 2 years now. Never got a single offer.

        I do like the idea though, of creating something and selling it on one of those platforms. That is why I was looking into Etsy. I just don't know what I want to create, that's the problem. If it isn't coming from a place of passion, I'll probably lose interest in it. In fact I lose interest even if I am passionate about it (like my photography).
        Yes, passion, l though that way 10 years ago, or was and still am crazy about ceramics. A spent 4 years at it, but since the experts were getting hit hard, (2008) and expansion was hard, (won't work through direct mail, trust me on that one) l ditched that and went online.

        Then after about 7 years trying lots of stuff, ended up with flyers, (not what l loved doing, but in the ballpark) and am currently making around $100 a month from that.

        But these days it is all online trading, (which isn't even in the ballpark, more like the carpark, but it has a hell of a lot more earning potential).

        I have spent the last 2 months learning everything l can about that, eventhough l am probably putting too much effort into it and should be balancing it with other more creating options.

        But in the end when l get through my current book, and got my experience up, l will then have more time for other things.

        Billy Joel, wrote pop music for most of his career and only now after amassing a lot of money is doing what he really wants now, (classical composition).

        Originally Posted by GaiaGoddess View Post

        That is what I'm trying to do, figure out what I could do or make. But I am only doing it because I need money, if I didn't need money I would just enjoy all my hobbies whenever I feel like doing each one and this wouldn't be an issue.
        It has been my experience that doing what you like, or can tolerate will make far more than love.

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      • Profile picture of the author Kay King
        Well I haven't tried these myself, but I have been getting tons of suggestions by other people on ways to have a successful business without all the marketing tactics I have been talking about.
        Why haven't you tried them for yourself?

        Because it's easier to talk about maybe doing something...sometime...than it is to DO something?

        Another lady messaged me this: "You were asking the question of if you can make a living online without advertising...I love that question because that is exactly what I do! I help women entrepreneurs to increase their exposure and credibility and revenue - without advertising or public relations."
        Sounds like exactly what you want - so click the "buy here" button and get started.
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        • Profile picture of the author GaiaGoddess
          Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

          Why haven't you tried them for yourself?

          Because it's easier to talk about maybe doing something...sometime...than it is to DO something?
          No, because I just learned about them 2 days ago. And I don't even have a business yet or even a clear idea of what I want to do.

          Sounds like exactly what you want - so click the "buy here" button and get started.
          I can't do that until I have an actual business. She told me, " Ah, that makes sense! Once you figure out your business offering, let me know!."
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      • Profile picture of the author Kay King
        I didn't realize this was a forum ONLY for marketing, I thought it was for all kinds of earning money online. I know it's one of the biggest ones, so I thought by asking the largest amount of people I would get the widest variety of answers.
        You don't get it - if you are making money online....you are selling something. If you are selling something online there is 'marketing' involved of one sort or another.

        I admit to wondering about your personal habits. Are you normal weight - are you in good health and fit for your age? Do you eat a healthy diet or are you a junk food lover? Do you exercise regularly - walk or run, spend in out IN nature? Do you volunteer to help other people or at a dog shelter or for local causes?

        I ask because the more you post the more I get a view of someone who is depressed and totally lacking in motivation. Depression can do that...so can self-indulgence. One can be treated - the other not so much.

        I'm reminded of my friend Anita - who would talk endlessly about her latest diet and exercise program and her goals of weight loss and fitness....while eating a full bag of potato chips all by herself. She was a smart woman - but could not see the disconnect between her words and her actions.

        Truth is - you do something to reach your goals...or you don't. You will not have an income online unless you work for it - and that means marketing and promoting and reaching out to a target audience. There is no magic button, no money pile, no big 'secret they don't want you to know'.

        For an offline job - you might need to get additional education or job training to qualify for work you enjoy doing. Reality: In your 40's most work is still open to you....the older you get, the fewer options you have when it comes to offline jobs.
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        • Profile picture of the author GaiaGoddess
          Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

          You don't get it - if you are making money online....you are selling something. If you are selling something online there is 'marketing' involved of one sort or another.
          No you don't have to be selling something, you can perform a service, like editing, writing, proofreading, transcribing, graphic design, bookkeeping, data entry, etc. Those are the types of earning money online that I am talking about, little tasks you do that don't involve anything but just doing those tasks.

          I admit to wondering about your personal habits. Are you normal weight - are you in good health and fit for your age? Do you eat a healthy diet or are you a junk food lover? Do you exercise regularly - walk or run, spend in out IN nature? Do you volunteer to help other people or at a dog shelter or for local causes?

          I ask because the more you post the more I get a view of someone who is depressed and totally lacking in motivation. Depression can do that...so can self-indulgence. One can be treated - the other not so much.
          The last I weighed myself I was about 115 pounds. Health is one of my passions so I try to be as healthy as possible. I try to buy only organic food and make most of my meals homemade.I never spend money on junk food, the only thing I drink is water, I love dancing and walking and riding a bike and jumping on my rebounder. As for volunteering, I haven't had much time for that whenever I've had a job, but one summer when I was unemployed I volunteered at a music studio cleaning and doing odd jobs around the place. I am not depressed, the only time I get depressed is when I am stuck in a job I hate, but some were worse than others so I have only been really depressed a few times, depending on the job I had at the time.

          For an offline job - you might need to get additional education or job training to qualify for work you enjoy doing. Reality: In your 40's most work is still open to you....the older you get, the fewer options you have when it comes to offline jobs.
          But I don't enjoy doing anything! That is my entire point. The ONLY job I ever had that I didn't hate was a very specific job that doesnt exist anymore (I was a prep cook in a temporary kitchen at a lodge that housed oil workers in the middle of nowhere, and I was able to do that because they didn't care if you had experience or a degree or any training, they taught us how to do it on the job. There are no other resteraunts or kitchens that will hire someone to cook for large volumes of people if they have no experience, but this place was in the middle of nowhere and had to take whoever applied. I also was able to work nighttime hours which are the only hours I can work due to my circadian rhythm disorder. Every other prep cook job I have seen since then requires you to be there early in the morning and they want you to have gone to culinary school too. I know I went off on a tangent there, I was just explaining why that was the only job that I would have stayed at forever and not felt stuck and miserable.
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  • Profile picture of the author Rose Anderson
    The minimalist movement is very popular right now. This is your chance to jump on that band wagon. Don't think about what hasn't worked and why you shouldn't - just do something.

    Take that passion about anti-consumerism and start a blog. Post videos about why you don't buy into advertising and you only consume what you need. Tell people how you survive on a small income. Many people are wanting to downsize right now and want information about the lifestyle.

    Instead of using your beliefs as an excuse not to succeed, use them as a way to propel you forward.

    You can build a mailing list of like-minded people or a Facebook group. Eventually share books or products that you feel have helped you. Yes, it's marketing but it's also helping people find what they're looking for. I'm not sure it will be a high paying audience but I know there are things this group are willing to pay to learn.

    It will eventually get boring. Then it's up to you to find ways to keep motivated. I find that eating, paying the rent, and visiting my grandbabies are great motivators.

    It will be work. Doing anything of value usually is. It also takes time. Stucking with a project is often the hardest part.

    All we can do is offer you ideas. What you do with them is up to you.

    Rose
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    • Profile picture of the author GaiaGoddess
      Originally Posted by Rose Anderson View Post

      The minimalist movement is very popular right now. This is your chance to jump on that band wagon. Don't think about what hasn't worked and why you shouldn't - just do something.

      Take that passion about anti-consumerism and start a blog. Post videos about why you don't buy into advertising and you only consume what you need. Tell people how you survive on a small income. Many people are wanting to downsize right now and want information about the lifestyle.

      Instead of using your beliefs as an excuse not to succeed, use them as a way to propel you forward.

      You can build a mailing list of like-minded people or a Facebook group. Eventually share books or products that you feel have helped you. Yes, it's marketing but it's also helping people find what they're looking for. I'm not sure it will be a high paying audience but I know there are things this group are willing to pay to learn.

      It will eventually get boring. Then it's up to you to find ways to keep motivated. I find that eating, paying the rent, and visiting my grandbabies are great motivators.

      It will be work. Doing anything of value usually is. It also takes time. Stucking with a project is often the hardest part.

      All we can do is offer you ideas. What you do with them is up to you.

      Rose
      I do like that idea...it's just that I have already tried the whole website/blog/FB page thing with other subjects so I can already forsee what would happen. I would get really into it for a few days or weeks, share every resource I can find. say everything I can think of about it, and then it will just stop. To me having a blog or website is a finite thing. There is only so much information you can come up with, and all of it has already been written anyway. I think that is the biggest reason why I stop every time I do this, because i realize all I am doing is rewording what other people have already said and I'm not good at rewording things. I have a hard time explaining my thoughts and most of the time people misunderstand me (just like in this thread, lol).
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  • Profile picture of the author ChrisBa
    Originally Posted by GaiaGoddess View Post

    I have finally come to the conclusion that I am not cut out for anything requiring any type of marketing. I think it's because deep down I feel like if you have to advertise for something, it can't be that important or necessary therefore the person just wants money from you. I mean lets face it, if someone truly wants or needs something, they don't have to be convinced to buy it. I have tried to change this mindset but it just goes against every cell in my body. I would actually feel guilty if I made a product and then tried to get people to buy it from me. When I want something, I find it on Amazon and order it, or go to a store that sells that thing, no advertising necessary. Maybe it's because I'm a minimalist hippie who has few possessions and values only freedom, nature, love and music. My circle of peers aren't the kind of people who spend money on things they don't need. Most people I know create art or music and they never advertise, in fact the best painter I have ever seen in my life only sells her paintings at small local music festivals and they average from $500 to $3000 a piece. She doesn't need an Etsy account or a website. I am wondering if maybe the reason why I haven't been motivated enough to start earning money online is because the marketing side of it goes against my values and who I am as a person. I do want to earn money working online though, I want something that is location independent and something I don't need to leave the house to do. I want something that I don't have to trade my time for. Is it possible for someone like me to be successful with this? Maybe there is a way to earn money online without selling something? Or at least not needing to advertise for it?
    There are many ways to make money online.

    You just need to find one that matches your skills.

    Marketing is a great way to do it, but there are other ways. But with that in mind, why couldn't you just write content for websites you own and then sell ad space? it's pretty straight forward and you can just focus on the content of the websites.
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    • Profile picture of the author GaiaGoddess
      Originally Posted by ChrisBa View Post

      There are many ways to make money online.

      You just need to find one that matches your skills.

      Marketing is a great way to do it, but there are other ways.
      Thank you! I know there has to be something out there for me that fits me. It seems like everyone else in here is quick to say nothing will work for me.

      But with that in mind, why couldn't you just write content for websites you own and then sell ad space? it's pretty straight forward and you can just focus on the content of the websites.
      Oh i've tried my own websites and blogs before. I say all I can think of to say, I share all the resources I know of, and it just fizzles out after that because I realize I'm basically just rewording what other people have already said, I'm like that person who, after someone else gives an amazing speech or lecture, says "yeah! What he said!" lol I don't have the expertise or the never ending ideas of things to say like those people do. I think I need a job that doesn't involve being creative.
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      • Profile picture of the author Mark Singletary
        Originally Posted by GaiaGoddess View Post

        But if other people are doing it, that means it works, and if something works, I want to try it! That is the exact answer I was looking for so why not tell me how they are doing it? My "excuses" as you call them wouldn't apply to something that is exactly what I am looking for.
        For everything that anyone mentions you have a reason why it won't work:
        • You've tried it and failed
        • You aren't the creative type
        • You get bored
        • You can't last more than a couple weeks and you quit
        • Etc.
        If I remember right, it also involved marketing and a website and all the same stuff I don't like doing. I don't even remember which course I took on AWAI because I quickly forgot about it when I realized it wouldn't be a good fit for me.
        Everything anyone talks about here has to do with:
        • Writing (everyday all day long for months and years - not just between TV shows or whatever - it's a business)
        • Selling/Marketing products and services
        • Having a website
        • Sticking to something for more than 3 weeks
        • Etc.
        So, maybe you should get a laborer job in the fields or washing cars or whatever. This forum isn't right for you if you are trying to do something no one else here does. And you don't even have a clue what it is you want to do and turn down everything anyone suggests.

        Originally Posted by GaiaGoddess View Post

        Thank you! I know there has to be something out there for me that fits me. It seems like everyone else in here is quick to say nothing will work for me.
        Excuse me. You are the only one that has turned down every single idea for 3 years.

        For example, read the following. Is that the other member saying you can't do it or is it you turning it down?

        Oh i've tried my own websites and blogs before. I say all I can think of to say, I share all the resources I know of, and it just fizzles out after that because I realize I'm basically just rewording what other people have already said, I'm like that person who, after someone else gives an amazing speech or lecture, says "yeah! What he said!" lol I don't have the expertise or the never ending ideas of things to say like those people do. I think I need a job that doesn't involve being creative.
        You answer to every single idea for 3 years is basically the same as this. Even in cases where you say you'll try it, you don't. And if you do try it, you admit you won't last but a few weeks.

        So, I'm not sure what else anyone can do to help you until you decide to help yourself, do what needs to be done, don't even think about quitting until you succeed, etc.

        Good luck.

        Mark
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        • Profile picture of the author GaiaGoddess
          Originally Posted by Mark Singletary View Post

          For everything that anyone mentions you have a reason why it won't work:
          • You've tried it and failed
          • You aren't the creative type
          • You get bored
          • You can't last more than a couple weeks and you quit
          • Etc.


          Everything anyone talks about here has to do with:
          • Writing (everyday all day long for months and years - not just between TV shows or whatever - it's a business)
          • Selling/Marketing products and services
          • Having a website
          • Sticking to something for more than 3 weeks
          • Etc.
          I would say I'm just in the wrong forum then. I know there are other ways to earn money without having to have a website and market something. And there have to be ways I don't know of yet. As for sticking to something, yeah in the past I haven't been able to do that because those things involved the same stuff I don't like doing. It would be insanity to keep trying the same thing over and over and expecting it to magically work when the others didn't. What I need is a completely different system.

          So, maybe you should get a laborer job in the fields or washing cars or whatever.
          So just another job like the other 14 I have had? How did those end up?

          This forum isn't right for you if you are trying to do something no one else here does.
          Wow. I can't believe an entrepreneur actually said these words. That mentality is the same mentality people have that are just employees working in a normal job...just follow the herd! Do what everyone else does. Don't think outside the box, don't try to find alternatives! I am CLEARLY in the wrong forum now.

          Excuse me. You are the only one that has turned down every single idea for 3 years.
          You answer to every single idea for 3 years is basically the same as this. Even in cases where you say you'll try it, you don't. And if you do try it, you admit you won't last but a few weeks.
          I have never not tried an idea. And after I try them and realize that doesn't fit me, THAT'S when I turn it down when someone suggests it. If you have an allergic reaction to peanuts and someone tells you "Try eating some peanuts!" are you going to forget everything and just be like "Ok, maybe I won't die this time".

          So, I'm not sure what else anyone can do to help you until you decide to help yourself, do what needs to be done, don't even think about quitting until you succeed, etc.
          All I want are examples of ways to earn money online that don't include the things I have already tried! That is all!
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      • Profile picture of the author Rose Anderson
        Originally Posted by GaiaGoddess View Post

        Thank you! I know there has to be something out there for me that fits me. It seems like everyone else in here is quick to say nothing will work for me.
        We're not saying nothing will work for you. YOU ARE

        With every suggestion we make you say some reason it won't work such as you've already tried it or you get tired of the subject and don't know what to say. Now you say you're not creative.

        By the sound of your writing I think you are creative and would get bored quickly in a field that doesn't require some creativity.

        If I'm wrong then you might try searching here: Home - Real Work From Home Jobs by Rat Race Rebellion
        They have lots of work from home jobs. They're not exciting but some of them pay pretty well and you don't have to have a "regular" job.

        Another suggestion - since you say you write a lot about one subject and then get bored. Why not take what you've already written on your other blogs and turn them into short books to publish on Amazon. Write one a month for a year and see what happens. Again, you won't get rich, but it works well with your "I get tired of a subject and want to move on" way of thinking

        Rose
        Signature
        Ebook package - $450
        10,000 word Ebook, 1 short report, 5 articles
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        • Profile picture of the author GaiaGoddess
          Originally Posted by Rose Anderson View Post

          We're not saying nothing will work for you. YOU ARE
          I'm not saying NOTHING will work for me, just nothing I have found so far. I guess I'm an eternal optimist, lol But other people on here are already giving up on me. As long as I don't!

          By the sound of your writing I think you are creative and would get bored quickly in a field that doesn't require some creativity.
          I can be creative for a short time, if that's even called creativity. I always have something to say about a subject but what I don't have is the ability to never run out of things to say, forever. Websites and blogs are so permanent, they're meant to always be there always providing new content. I am thinking something more temporary would work for me. Something temporary that continues to earn money. Like a book.

          If I'm wrong then you might try searching here: Home - Real Work From Home Jobs by Rat Race Rebellion
          They have lots of work from home jobs. They're not exciting but some of them pay pretty well and you don't have to have a "regular" job.
          Oooh that looks good, I'll check that out! Thanks!

          Another suggestion - since you say you write a lot about one subject and then get bored. Why not take what you've already written on your other blogs and turn them into short books to publish on Amazon. Write one a month for a year and see what happens. Again, you won't get rich, but it works well with your "I get tired of a subject and want to move on" way of thinking

          Rose
          I never thought of that!!! How have I missed that idea!? I still have all the content saved on my computer, I could easily do that! Now this is the kind of stuff I'm talking about, lol
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  • Profile picture of the author WarWizard
    Hey,
    After reading this thread, and your thread from 3 years ago and all your replies, it just looks like you are stuck in a cycle.
    Its not that you can't do something, but deep inside you want to prove to the world that nothing will work for you, and so your mind finds some way to sabotage and create the result that is running as your auto-pilot program.

    There is never going to be a job or business where all you do is things that you love. The marketplace does not give a crap about what you love, rather it is selfish and wants what it wants. If you want to make money while being able to travel etc, look at where people are spending money, look at how you can add value with any skills, knowledge and experience you already have, and create a solution. This solution could be a blog, podcast show, books, courses, physical products, distribution systems (eg. an ecommerce store).

    Even though you deny it, from reading your responses, it seems that you have internal issues with beliefs that are deep seated that you consciously belive that there is nothing wrong, but your unconscious mind is where the trouble is.

    If you have not already read them, 2 books that really helped me understand my own cycle of self-sabotage and is helping me work through it are 1. Psycho-cybernetics by Dr. Maxwell Maltz, and more recently 'How to Make Lots of Money for Anything - Fast' by Stuart Lichtman.

    I would suggest reading through my post at this link on books to read that will help you understand your mind, mindset, how to empower yourself to succeed, work with your strengths and also how an online business works --> https://www.warriorforum.com/main-in...l#post11372395

    There are a couple of other posts by others on this forum that you'd find useful as well:

    1. https://www.warriorforum.com/main-in...l#post11379633

    2. https://www.warriorforum.com/main-in...l#post11380060

    3. https://www.warriorforum.com/main-in...l#post11381263

    Also, having followed the 'multi-potentialite' movement, there are flaws in the thinking as well, and those who promote it are banking cash while you are living in fantasy land. The true multi-potentialite/polymath goes deep into a few different areas, and finds ways to create solutions by combining or borrowing elements.

    No one gets paid for just existing, you can still exist that way if you want like tribals do. Go out, hunt, fish and live day to day that way, but if you want to live in the modern world and have modern comforts, finding ways to add value to others is the 'modern' form of hunting, and we get paid in cash to then exchange for what we want - freedom , travel, etc.

    To make money online or offline, you need to find a way to add value to the marketplace. You don't have to love the work. There are people who hate pets, who have businesses catering to pets and pet owners. There are people who don't care about 'survivalists' but know that it is a rabid market and have businesses that sell to them.

    At 45, i'm sure you would have picked up a variety of skills and life experiences that you can use to add value to others. Introversion and social ackwardness are not excuses to hide behind. Again, you are hiding behind the stories that you keep telling yourself and the self-image that those stories have created for you, and getting the results that that self-image is capable of getting.
    To change the results, you need to change, till you are ready to change, there is not a whole lot anyone can do for you.

    I wish you all the best, and I hope that you use the creativity that you have used to create stories and excuses, to create value and have the freedom that you desire.

    There is a lot of opportunity, and lot of potential in todays world, the question is how are you going to use that to add value and enrich yourself in the process?
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    • Profile picture of the author GaiaGoddess
      Originally Posted by WarWizard View Post


      There is never going to be a job or business where all you do is things that you love.
      I disagree on that, lol I did have a job that I loved, I loved every single thing about it, it was perfect. I would have kept doing it until retirement. But it was a very particular job that doesn't even exist anymore. Maybe that job raised the bar for me as far as what I expect from other jobs. Anything else now is settling and I hate settling.

      If you have not already read them, 2 books that really helped me understand my own cycle of self-sabotage and is helping me work through it are 1. Psycho-cybernetics by Dr. Maxwell Maltz, and more recently 'How to Make Lots of Money for Anything - Fast' by Stuart Lichtman.
      I gotta say, that 2nd one sounds amazing, I want to read it right now! lol Thanks for the suggestions!

      I would suggest reading through my post at this link on books to read that will help you understand your mind, mindset, how to empower yourself to succeed, work with your strengths and also how an online business works --> https://www.warriorforum.com/main-in...l#post11372395

      There are a couple of other posts by others on this forum that you'd find useful as well:

      1. https://www.warriorforum.com/main-in...l#post11379633

      2. https://www.warriorforum.com/main-in...l#post11380060

      3. https://www.warriorforum.com/main-in...l#post11381263
      I will check those out too, thanks!

      Also, having followed the 'multi-potentialite' movement, there are flaws in the thinking as well, and those who promote it are banking cash while you are living in fantasy land. The true multi-potentialite/polymath goes deep into a few different areas, and finds ways to create solutions by combining or borrowing elements.
      I would even be ok with that though, I have tried to find ways to combine my interests. I could write about all of them, and that is probably my idea that will have the most traction. I just feel like I have to learn more about these subjects before I can credibly write about them. A good example is I wanted to write a book about Italian food since it's my favorite. I went to write the first chapter which was a history of Italian food, and my mind went blank. I knew it came from Italy, that was literally all I knew. So I dug out all my books on Italian food and read what they said about the history, and immediately I lost interest because I don't believe in just rewording what other people have already said, if it doesn't come from me, there is no point.

      No one gets paid for just existing, you can still exist that way if you want like tribals do. Go out, hunt, fish and live day to day that way, but if you want to live in the modern world and have modern comforts, finding ways to add value to others is the 'modern' form of hunting, and we get paid in cash to then exchange for what we want - freedom , travel, etc.
      Yeah...I just hate that there's only 2 options though. Well there are in between options like joining an ecovillage or commune, but there aren't any near me and I am not willing to give up my family and friends.

      You don't have to love the work. There are people who hate pets, who have businesses catering to pets and pet owners. There are people who don't care about 'survivalists' but know that it is a rabid market and have businesses that sell to them.
      I wish I could settle like that. Settling has made me unhappy and life is too short to settle and be unhappy. I need to be passionate about whatever I'm doing, anything less is a waste of energy and time.

      At 45, i'm sure you would have picked up a variety of skills and life experiences that you can use to add value to others. Introversion and social ackwardness are not excuses to hide behind. Again, you are hiding behind the stories that you keep telling yourself and the self-image that those stories have created for you, and getting the results that that self-image is capable of getting.
      To change the results, you need to change, till you are ready to change, there is not a whole lot anyone can do for you.
      But I have been happy working where my introversion wasn't a problem. There are millions of jobs where you can work by yourself. Of all the jobs out there, I don't believe there isn't something that would work for me with the issues I have. You can't change introversion. And I am not socially awkward to the point that I CAN'T do a certain job, it just makes me uncomfortable and I don't like it and that goes back to my last paragraph about settling.

      I wish you all the best, and I hope that you use the creativity that you have used to create stories and excuses, to create value and have the freedom that you desire.
      lol...I wish this was created by creativity, to me it's not created, it's just how I am. But I am an out of the box thinker, so hopefully I can create or discover the perfect job for myself!
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      • Profile picture of the author WarWizard
        Originally Posted by GaiaGoddess View Post

        I disagree on that, lol I did have a job that I loved, I loved every single thing about it, it was perfect. I would have kept doing it until retirement. But it was a very particular job that doesn't even exist anymore. Maybe that job raised the bar for me as far as what I expect from other jobs. Anything else now is settling and I hate settling.
        No one is asking you to settle, the reality is that your perfect job doesn't exist anymore, the world has moved on, yet you haven't. In todays day and age, with the aid of technology, we are expected to fill in the roles that in the past would've needed separate people to handle. Even more than that, if you are hoping to be an entrepreneur, in the beginning you will have to wear many hats and do things that you hate, to then be able to create cashflow to employ people who can take over those roles and allow you to mostly do the work that energises you and helps you add the greatest value.

        Originally Posted by GaiaGoddess View Post

        I gotta say, that 2nd one sounds amazing, I want to read it right now! lol Thanks for the suggestions!

        I will check those out too, thanks!
        Yes, Stuart's book is awesome. Buy the second edition, although it is $99 it is probably one of the best $99 I've spent, and this coming from someone who has read over 200 books in personal development and on how the brain works.

        Stuart comes from an engineering background, which means the instructions and methods are precise, but the downside is it can be a bit too extensive and the writing a little dry. Doing all the work required to prioritise targets and clear limiting beliefs which he calls blockers is a lot of work, but from what I've read by people who have done the work in the past, it opens the fast lane to goal achievement in any area of life.


        Originally Posted by GaiaGoddess View Post

        I would even be ok with that though, I have tried to find ways to combine my interests. I could write about all of them, and that is probably my idea that will have the most traction. I just feel like I have to learn more about these subjects before I can credibly write about them. A good example is I wanted to write a book about Italian food since it's my favorite. I went to write the first chapter which was a history of Italian food, and my mind went blank. I knew it came from Italy, that was literally all I knew. So I dug out all my books on Italian food and read what they said about the history, and immediately I lost interest because I don't believe in just rewording what other people have already said, if it doesn't come from me, there is no point.
        Well, there are people like SJ Scott and a few others who write Kindle books. They bring together a broad knowledge base to write specific, short, actionable books for specific target audiences. Although SJ Scott's books may go under the 'personal development' umbrella, they deal with various micro-niches within the space. Something that you could emulate. And then there are authors who have varied interests who write books on business, marketing, health, fitness and personal development etc and still pull it off.

        I believe it was King Solomon who said "There is nothing new under the sun". The ideas exist, but when you write them, you write them with your experience, research and story within it.


        Originally Posted by GaiaGoddess View Post

        Yeah...I just hate that there's only 2 options though. Well there are in between options like joining an ecovillage or commune, but there aren't any near me and I am not willing to give up my family and friends.



        I wish I could settle like that. Settling has made me unhappy and life is too short to settle and be unhappy. I need to be passionate about whatever I'm doing, anything less is a waste of energy and time.
        Everything in life is a choice. What do you really want? Decide that and work towards that. You're not 'settling', by focussing on one area in life for a period of time, there is no such thing as balance, there is strategic imbalance where some areas of life get more focus at a given period of life.

        Originally Posted by GaiaGoddess View Post

        But I have been happy working where my introversion wasn't a problem. There are millions of jobs where you can work by yourself. Of all the jobs out there, I don't believe there isn't something that would work for me with the issues I have. You can't change introversion. And I am not socially awkward to the point that I CAN'T do a certain job, it just makes me uncomfortable and I don't like it and that goes back to my last paragraph about settling.
        You can't change introversion, but you can work with it. As an introvert, you need time to recover before facing the world again, so make that a priority. Have times of interaction, followed by times for deep, quiet thinking and recovery. Your comfort zones are deviced by your mind, the only way to expand comfort zones is by doing the uncomfortable, until they become the new normal and comfortable.

        Comfortable thing is going to a job and getting a paycheck at the end of the week, fortnight or month. Uncomfortable thing, especially in the beginning is doing something that is out of that hamster wheel and making it work. Once you have made it work, mentally you become comfortable with it and even if it falls apart, you know that you can built something similar again. It is like the 4-minute mile.

        Originally Posted by GaiaGoddess View Post

        lol...I wish this was created by creativity, to me it's not created, it's just how I am. But I am an out of the box thinker, so hopefully I can create or discover the perfect job for myself!
        'Just how you are' is a creation by the stories that you keep telling yourself. Your capabilities and everything else is limited by the stories you tell yourself. For example, if you keep telling yourself that you don't deserve success, you will find ways to make it true.
        If you look at the stories that you have been telling through the 2 threads, again that is defining you and creating the results. Your stories have created your self-identity what have defined your 'reality'.
        The reason I put reality in quotes is because it is defined by the filters of your mind, beliefs, knowledge and experiences. When you change your mind, beliefs, knowledge and experiences, you will start to see a very different 'reality' because your perspective changes.

        Take it from another 'outside the box' thinker, that you are now confined to a box of your own making. That box is framed by the stories that you are telling yourself. To really think outside the box, reject all the stories that you tell yourself of how life and things should be, and step outside, and look at how things are working for others.

        Is there any one out there who inspires you or you'd like to model in terms of success in life (be that money, business, relationships etc)? Step outside and observer from every possible vantage point on how they do what they do, and then start doing those things.

        You want to be successful with a book launch like Pat Flynn, look at everything he's done. He started with a training program for a certification exam, and learnt marketing from building that business which he shared using his blogs and podcasts, and built his authority and knowledge by interviewing others who are experts. Before that, he actually had to buckle down and study for that certification exam for his previous life as an architect (from memory).

        The other person who has made a great living out of having many interests is Tim Ferris. Look at the path he took to get to where he is. As far as I know it started around 2001, not in 2007 or 8 when he launched The 4-Hour Work Week.

        Everyone who is successful had to do things they did not like and still do things they do not like to be able to live the life they want to live.

        I hope that Stuart's book will be the start of that change in perspective for you, and a new direction in life.
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        • Profile picture of the author GaiaGoddess
          Originally Posted by WarWizard View Post

          No one is asking you to settle, the reality is that your perfect job doesn't exist anymore, the world has moved on, yet you haven't.
          I guess i'm too much of an optimist to believe there was only ever 1 perfect job for me. That's like saying there is only one man out there who would be a perfect partner for me. Out of the billions of possibilities, I can't believe there was only ever just one. And out of the box thinking includes creating the perfect job for yourself. That is also what I am trying to do.

          Even more than that, if you are hoping to be an entrepreneur, in the beginning you will have to wear many hats and do things that you hate, to then be able to create cashflow to employ people who can take over those roles and allow you to mostly do the work that energises you and helps you add the greatest value.
          I think you are overlooking an entire category of making money online, which everyone else is also forgetting about. There are lots of online income ideas that don't require you to wear many hats, just the one you want to wear. Someone mentioned just writing, taking writing assignments or creating something digital to a site that already has traffic, stuff like that. I am not interested in having employees, it's hard enough just being one myself, lol

          Well, there are people like SJ Scott and a few others who write Kindle books. They bring together a broad knowledge base to write specific, short, actionable books for specific target audiences. Although SJ Scott's books may go under the 'personal development' umbrella, they deal with various micro-niches within the space. Something that you could emulate. And then there are authors who have varied interests who write books on business, marketing, health, fitness and personal development etc and still pull it off.
          Yep, that's what I wanna do! I just have to somehow get some more expertise in my areas of interest. That is why I am a proponent of taking classes even ones that are just life enriching. You are still getting knowledge. And knowledge is one of my passions in life. I can't get enough of books, documentaries, researching online, etc.

          Your comfort zones are deviced by your mind, the only way to expand comfort zones is by doing the uncomfortable, until they become the new normal and comfortable.
          I have plenty of examples in my life where I left my comfort zone, it isn't like I have never done it. In fact I hear from friends a lot how they don't know how I can do some of the things I do, they wouldn't have the guts.

          If you look at the stories that you have been telling through the 2 threads, again that is defining you and creating the results. Your stories have created your self-identity what have defined your 'reality'.
          The reason I put reality in quotes is because it is defined by the filters of your mind, beliefs, knowledge and experiences. When you change your mind, beliefs, knowledge and experiences, you will start to see a very different 'reality' because your perspective changes.
          So why is it so hard for you (and others in here) to see a different reality, that there ARE ways to earn money without marketing? It seems like everyone is too closed minded to believe they exist. I have even had people PM me saying they do exist, but apparently they know if they were to say it in my thread that others would give them a hard time like they're giving me.

          Is there any one out there who inspires you or you'd like to model in terms of success in life (be that money, business, relationships etc)? Step outside and observer from every possible vantage point on how they do what they do, and then start doing those things.
          Sure people inspire me, but when I dive deeper I realize I couldn't live their life, for one reason or another. Usually because of my sleep disorder, I would say that gets in the way more than my introversion, for sure.

          Everyone who is successful had to do things they did not like and still do things they do not like to be able to live the life they want to live.
          I find this hard to believe, what are the odds that NO successful person loves every aspect of their job? Even I loved every aspect of one of my 12 or 13 jobs so mathematically speaking the odds would be pretty good for me to find another one.
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          • Profile picture of the author Mark Singletary
            Originally Posted by GaiaGoddess View Post

            So why is it so hard for you (and others in here) to see a different reality, that there ARE ways to earn money without marketing? It seems like everyone is too closed minded to believe they exist. I have even had people PM me saying they do exist, but apparently they know if they were to say it in my thread that others would give them a hard time like they're giving me.
            So you already know the answer because they told you exactly what you could do, right? Therefore, no need to continue posting since they gave you all the details.

            Glad you got it figured out. Now, go forth and prosper.

            Mark
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            • Profile picture of the author GaiaGoddess
              Originally Posted by Mark Singletary View Post

              So you already know the answer because they told you exactly what you could do, right? Therefore, no need to continue posting since they gave you all the details.

              Glad you got it figured out. Now, go forth and prosper.

              Mark
              Well they didnt give m ALL the details, one woman says she has a business that helps people like me with their businesses but I told her I don't have a business so she can't help me, yet. Another few just said they feel the same way I do, they didn't have any suggestions that I haven't tried though. And others have given me good suggetions, not with exact steps on how to implement them but good ideas are still welcome.
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              • Profile picture of the author WarWizard
                Originally Posted by GaiaGoddess View Post

                Well they didnt give m ALL the details, one woman says she has a business that helps people like me with their businesses but I told her I don't have a business so she can't help me, yet. Another few just said they feel the same way I do, they didn't have any suggestions that I haven't tried though. And others have given me good suggetions, not with exact steps on how to implement them but good ideas are still welcome.
                Please take sometime to read 'Unscripted' by MJ DeMarco as soon as you can. There is no step by step plan, other than looking at blueprints of those who have gone before and using it as a starting map and figuring things out as you go.
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              • Profile picture of the author Mark Singletary
                Originally Posted by GaiaGoddess View Post

                Well they didnt give m ALL the details, one woman says she has a business that helps people like me with their businesses.
                I'll give you 3 guesses as to what she was doing when she said that.

                Hint: It starts with an M and ends with a G. ☺
                Mark
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                • Profile picture of the author WarWizard
                  Originally Posted by Mark Singletary View Post

                  I'll give you 3 guesses as to what she was doing when she said that.

                  Hint: It starts with an M and ends with a G. ☺
                  Mark
                  LOL, very true Mark.
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                • Profile picture of the author GaiaGoddess
                  Originally Posted by Mark Singletary View Post

                  I'll give you 3 guesses as to what she was doing when she said that.

                  Hint: It starts with an M and ends with a G. ☺
                  Mark
                  LOL yes but she was just having a conversation, I can do that. That is probably one of the forms of "quiet marketing", I am going to spend some time researching that today. I am ok with chatting with people online and telling them about something I have, to me that is just having a conversation.
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          • Profile picture of the author WarWizard
            Originally Posted by GaiaGoddess View Post

            I guess i'm too much of an optimist to believe there was only ever 1 perfect job for me. That's like saying there is only one man out there who would be a perfect partner for me. Out of the billions of possibilities, I can't believe there was only ever just one. And out of the box thinking includes creating the perfect job for yourself. That is also what I am trying to do.
            Nothing wrong in being an optimist, in fact it probably helps see what is not yet there and create solutions for a better world and a better life, yet like perfect partners, perfect job/businesses have multiple variables that need to be accounted for. Very rarely do all those variables work out exactly as we would like them to be. Yes, out of the box thinking does include creating that job/business, but the path to that will involve initially doing things you don't really like, and then working towards removing and/or delegating parts that you do not want to directly deal with.


            Originally Posted by GaiaGoddess View Post

            I think you are overlooking an entire category of making money online, which everyone else is also forgetting about. There are lots of online income ideas that don't require you to wear many hats, just the one you want to wear. Someone mentioned just writing, taking writing assignments or creating something digital to a site that already has traffic, stuff like that. I am not interested in having employees, it's hard enough just being one myself, lol
            Maybe, but I've been online for a very long time, seen people, businesses and business models rise and fall. I've done a few of them myself and suceeded and failed.

            Lets take the example of taking writing assignments - where are these people who want things written going to find you? When they find you on a freelancing website, how are you going to convince them to give you the project rather than someone else? this is where marketing comes into play. The most successful freelancers are good marketers who use their profile, portfolio and other materials to project themselves and their work in positive light. This is MARKETING and SELLING.
            If you take the example of getting a job, your CV and cover letter are the MARKETING materials, and it needs to be attractive to the right person to get the opportunity to be interviewed. The interview is the SALES presentation.

            No matter what you do in life, you are MARKETING and SELLING. From the moment you are born to the moment you die, you are in SALES. Once you get used to that, you will fall in love with sales and marketing and see them for what they truly are - tools that help you add value, while also enriching yourself.


            Originally Posted by GaiaGoddess View Post

            Yep, that's what I wanna do! I just have to somehow get some more expertise in my areas of interest. That is why I am a proponent of taking classes even ones that are just life enriching. You are still getting knowledge. And knowledge is one of my passions in life. I can't get enough of books, documentaries, researching online, etc.
            You do not need to be the worlds best expert, no one is. You need to share what has worked for you, how it worked, why it worked and how the person who reads your book or takes your course can make it work for them to get the result they want.

            Like you, I love books, documentaries, reading articles, listening to podcasts and watching videos online to constantly expand my horizons. Unfortunately, a lot of people pretty much have small twists that make strategies and techniques their own. The principles of things remain constant for a very long time.

            To really understand principles that govern a topic , market or niche, having great mental models to assimilate and understand knowledge helps.

            Check online for posts by Farnam Street Blog, mmweekly, growingstartup, jana vembunarayanan, James Clear and coach.me on Mental Models and start using them to help you use what you assimilate and also create content in the form of books etc.

            Originally Posted by GaiaGoddess View Post

            I have plenty of examples in my life where I left my comfort zone, it isn't like I have never done it. In fact I hear from friends a lot how they don't know how I can do some of the things I do, they wouldn't have the guts.
            Great to hear. The areas where you were able to do that are potentially your areas of hidden strengths.

            Originally Posted by GaiaGoddess View Post

            So why is it so hard for you (and others in here) to see a different reality, that there ARE ways to earn money without marketing? It seems like everyone is too closed minded to believe they exist. I have even had people PM me saying they do exist, but apparently they know if they were to say it in my thread that others would give them a hard time like they're giving me.
            Read my paragraph above on marketing and sales. Everything has a component of marketing and sales, be that selling ideas (via books, blogs, podcasts, movies, etc) or tangibles (products).

            If there are things that you can earn a good living without marketing, please let us know so we can tell you what part of it is marketing and sales and what is not. Also, if you have that answer, take the next 3 - 6 months and focus on those and get results for yourself and then share that in a blog post, book or WSO here.

            Originally Posted by GaiaGoddess View Post

            Sure people inspire me, but when I dive deeper I realize I couldn't live their life, for one reason or another. Usually because of my sleep disorder, I would say that gets in the way more than my introversion, for sure.
            Everyone has problems and issues to work through. Sleep disorder is your issue, some people deal with mobility issues, others do not have limbs. There are always issues. It is how we deal with them and move forward in spite of them that make or break us.

            Originally Posted by GaiaGoddess View Post

            I find this hard to believe, what are the odds that NO successful person loves every aspect of their job? Even I loved every aspect of one of my 12 or 13 jobs so mathematically speaking the odds would be pretty good for me to find another one.
            Thinking like that is like the lottery mentality. No harm it trying to get there, but if you focus too much on it, you won't see the path that could get you there.

            There is a Jim Rohn saying that I find useful when thinking about these things "What you pursue, eludes you". You want money, focus on adding value. You want freedom, focus on building skills and assets that will allow you to create revenue streams that support that freedom. Everything comes at a cost. Figure out what you are willing to pay for what you want, and start paying the price.

            There is a saying that goes along the lines of you have to pay the price before you have the success. So start now, rather than wasting even more time in life thinking of fantasies. DO THE WORK.
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            • Profile picture of the author GaiaGoddess
              Originally Posted by WarWizard View Post

              Lets take the example of taking writing assignments - where are these people who want things written going to find you? When they find you on a freelancing website, how are you going to convince them to give you the project rather than someone else? this is where marketing comes into play. The most successful freelancers are good marketers who use their profile, portfolio and other materials to project themselves and their work in positive light. This is MARKETING and SELLING.
              From what I understood, they don't find you, you find them. You apply to a company or you go on a site where companies post the assignments. I didn't check it out yet though, i'm just going by what someone in here posted.

              No matter what you do in life, you are MARKETING and SELLING. From the moment you are born to the moment you die, you are in SALES. Once you get used to that, you will fall in love with sales and marketing and see them for what they truly are - tools that help you add value, while also enriching yourself.
              That is where I don't agree...selling yourself is all based on the assumption that you are trying to get approval and/or attention and/or justification. I never did anything like this, especially as a kid and a teenager. The first time I ever had to "sell myself" was in my first job interview. And I've always hated job interviews for that reason, I don't care if somebody likes me or not, but I had to act like I did! I was never good at telling people why I was so awesome because to me that is what people do that lack self esteem, it feels like they are trying to convince others and themselves that they are all those things, and it just feels desperate. This is also why I hate dating sites, it's a bunch of people who can't get dates in real life bragging themselves up (and there is no proof any of it is true) and then people looking for people on there as if they were window shopping. UGH! Humans are not commodities.

              You do not need to be the worlds best expert, no one is. You need to share what has worked for you, how it worked, why it worked and how the person who reads your book or takes your course can make it work for them to get the result they want.
              I never write about that kind of stuff though, it isn't about stuff I try and stuff that works. I like to write about information and knowledge that people need to know. Like why they should get off pharmaceutical drugs and start healing themselves with herbs and other natural healing modalities. But I have never needed pharmaceutical drugs so I have no experience with them, nobody takes me seriously when I talk about it because apparently you have to have solved this problem for yourself, you can't just tell them it worked for millions of people. ugh...getting worked up now, lol Moving along...

              Check online for posts by Farnam Street Blog, mmweekly, growingstartup, jana vembunarayanan, James Clear and coach.me on Mental Models and start using them to help you use what you assimilate and also create content in the form of books etc.
              Ooh now I have an even longer list of stuff to check out, lol thank you!

              If there are things that you can earn a good living without marketing, please let us know so we can tell you what part of it is marketing and sales and what is not. Also, if you have that answer, take the next 3 - 6 months and focus on those and get results for yourself and then share that in a blog post, book or WSO here.
              Well I haven't tried these myself, but I have been getting tons of suggestions by other people on ways to have a successful business without all the marketing tactics I have been talking about. One is called Quiet Marketing, it appears to be a movement in how to market in more genuine ways, ones I could probably do. I have to do more research on it. Another lady messaged me this: "You were asking the question of if you can make a living online without advertising...I love that question because that is exactly what I do! I help women entrepreneurs to increase their exposure and credibility and revenue - without advertising or public relations."

              and another lady said this: "This is exactly the type of community I am at the start of trying to create. Every time in the past when I 'sold' my gifts it didn't feel right, and my husband feels the same. The people here will all say to market and advertise because they are all trying to get money and marketing works, but I believe there are other ways that open up when we start to really understand that separation of you and I is an illusion, and that money is the reason that we are all so disconnected from each other and the earth"

              and this one too: " I saw your post in (FB group name, I deleted it) and I so relate! You can make money online without marketing and sales if you focus on service, education and transformation instead"

              Everyone has problems and issues to work through. Sleep disorder is your issue, some people deal with mobility issues, others do not have limbs. There are always issues. It is how we deal with them and move forward in spite of them that make or break us.
              Well that is another reason I want an online job so I don't have to physically get up when I haven't had enough sleep, and I can work at 2 am if I want.
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              • Profile picture of the author WarWizard
                Originally Posted by GaiaGoddess View Post

                From what I understood, they don't find you, you find them. You apply to a company or you go on a site where companies post the assignments. I didn't check it out yet though, i'm just going by what someone in here posted.
                In sales, you going to a company is called prospecting. You will still be selling why you need to be given the assignment.

                Originally Posted by GaiaGoddess View Post

                That is where I don't agree...selling yourself is all based on the assumption that you are trying to get approval and/or attention and/or justification. I never did anything like this, especially as a kid and a teenager. The first time I ever had to "sell myself" was in my first job interview. And I've always hated job interviews for that reason, I don't care if somebody likes me or not, but I had to act like I did! I was never good at telling people why I was so awesome because to me that is what people do that lack self esteem, it feels like they are trying to convince others and themselves that they are all those things, and it just feels desperate. This is also why I hate dating sites, it's a bunch of people who can't get dates in real life bragging themselves up (and there is no proof any of it is true) and then people looking for people on there as if they were window shopping. UGH! Humans are not commodities.
                You have the right to believe what ever you want, but if you want the result that you say you want, over many threads you have started, you need to be able to market, sell, persuade, influence. Genuine marketing and selling is about diagnosing and solving problems.

                Dating sites have their place, whether you like them or not.


                Originally Posted by GaiaGoddess View Post

                I never write about that kind of stuff though, it isn't about stuff I try and stuff that works. I like to write about information and knowledge that people need to know. Like why they should get off pharmaceutical drugs and start healing themselves with herbs and other natural healing modalities. But I have never needed pharmaceutical drugs so I have no experience with them, nobody takes me seriously when I talk about it because apparently you have to have solved this problem for yourself, you can't just tell them it worked for millions of people. ugh...getting worked up now, lol Moving along...



                Ooh now I have an even longer list of stuff to check out, lol thank you!
                You can write about things like that, but also find people who a particular herb has worked for and get them to also share their stories, thereby adding to the credibility of what change you are trying to affect in this world. Herbal medicine is awesome by the way.

                As for the longer list to check out, it is for later at your leisure.

                At the moment, get and read 'How to Get Money for Anything - Fast' by Stuart Lichtman and 'Unscripted' by MJ DeMarco.

                To work on any limiting beliefs (of which many you have exhibited in your answers I've quoted in this reply), check out EFT, on Dr. Mercola's website (just do a google search, he has a whole sub-site dedicated to it).

                These should more than help you.

                Originally Posted by GaiaGoddess View Post

                Well I haven't tried these myself, but I have been getting tons of suggestions by other people on ways to have a successful business without all the marketing tactics I have been talking about. One is called Quiet Marketing, it appears to be a movement in how to market in more genuine ways, ones I could probably do. I have to do more research on it. Another lady messaged me this: "You were asking the question of if you can make a living online without advertising...I love that question because that is exactly what I do! I help women entrepreneurs to increase their exposure and credibility and revenue - without advertising or public relations."
                There is no business without marketing and selling. I have nothing to sell to you but to help you understand that you can call it what ever you want, but the initiator of a business transaction involves marketing and selling before that transaction occurs.

                Originally Posted by GaiaGoddess View Post

                and another lady said this: "This is exactly the type of community I am at the start of trying to create. Every time in the past when I 'sold' my gifts it didn't feel right, and my husband feels the same. The people here will all say to market and advertise because they are all trying to get money and marketing works, but I believe there are other ways that open up when we start to really understand that separation of you and I is an illusion, and that money is the reason that we are all so disconnected from each other and the earth"

                and this one too: " I saw your post in (FB group name, I deleted it) and I so relate! You can make money online without marketing and sales if you focus on service, education and transformation instead"
                All these are limiting beliefs that are holding you back from getting the results you say you want. Are any of these people who have said this to you making money online with a business? if so, good on them, and I wish you well on that path.

                The 'education, service and transformation' that you talk about is marketing and sales s it has to persuade and influence the people getting that service, education and transformation to then pay money for that.

                Originally Posted by GaiaGoddess View Post

                Well that is another reason I want an online job so I don't have to physically get up when I haven't had enough sleep, and I can work at 2 am if I want.
                As many have told you in many threads, there are many ways to make money online, all of them involve some form of marketing and selling, in fact, without marketing and selling, there is no business. You can have hobbies on the side that you blog about that you monetise with some adsense etc, but to have a real business, you need marketing and sales.
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                • Profile picture of the author GaiaGoddess
                  Originally Posted by WarWizard View Post

                  In sales, you going to a company is called prospecting. You will still be selling why you need to be given the assignment.
                  I didn't know it worked that way, like you still have to do interviews every time you want to write an article. I thought you could just go to the site, find the assignment you want, "claim" it, write it, and send it to them. If I have to do an interview or pass a test every time I want to write a short article, then I guess that is not the right method for me.

                  You have the right to believe what ever you want, but if you want the result that you say you want, over many threads you have started, you need to be able to market, sell, persuade, influence. Genuine marketing and selling is about diagnosing and solving problems.
                  I am horrible at persuasion and influence, nobody in my life has ever respected my opinions or suggestions about anything, so I guess I should take that as a sign I am not meant to do this. I am also not good at solving problems (even my own, lol)...the value I want to add to the world is just by sharing information, that doesn't really solve a problem, it just gives them something to read for a few minutes.

                  You can write about things like that, but also find people who a particular herb has worked for and get them to also share their stories, thereby adding to the credibility of what change you are trying to affect in this world. Herbal medicine is awesome by the way.
                  I just got an idea from reading this! I could ask people to give their firsthand accounts of a certain herb and then write short ebooks with those in it!

                  At the moment, get and read 'How to Get Money for Anything - Fast' by Stuart Lichtman and 'Unscripted' by MJ DeMarco.
                  That first one is $130! I would have bought it before but now that I'm unemployed I need to use money just for essentials. I tried to find it used on Amazon but it isn't even on there. I did find Unscripted for $7 on Kindle, judging by the chapter titles it looks like I could skip right to the 2nd half since the first half is telling you all about why we shouldn't be slaves anymore, hell I knew that when I was a child, lol but the 2nd half looks like it could help me. It's the cheaper of the two so I'll probably get it.

                  To work on any limiting beliefs (of which many you have exhibited in your answers I've quoted in this reply), check out EFT, on Dr. Mercola's website (just do a google search, he has a whole sub-site dedicated to it).
                  I spent about a month trying EFT years ago, I didnt feel any difference. I totally felt duped. I guess not everything works for everyone.

                  There is no business without marketing and selling. I have nothing to sell to you but to help you understand that you can call it what ever you want, but the initiator of a business transaction involves marketing and selling before that transaction occurs.
                  Yeah I don't disagree with that, I'm just saying there are TONS of methods of marketing and as I'm learning, there are some more genuine than others. Those are the ones I have to research and see if they are a good fit for me. But I still think whatever I end up doing, it won't involve selling anything. I do want to try writing books again (since that's passive) but I think in the long run I will have to do something where I trade my time for money, just not at a physical job, something online.

                  Are any of these people who have said this to you making money online with a business? if so, good on them, and I wish you well on that path.
                  Yes, they are all business owners. I think they mostly deal with helping people start their own businesses. They are all members of a private group on FB about passive income.
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                  • Profile picture of the author WarWizard
                    Originally Posted by GaiaGoddess View Post

                    I didn't know it worked that way, like you still have to do interviews every time you want to write an article. I thought you could just go to the site, find the assignment you want, "claim" it, write it, and send it to them. If I have to do an interview or pass a test every time I want to write a short article, then I guess that is not the right method for me.
                    Usually when working with one client, you'd have to do that once, and once they get you to write for them and trust your work, they keep sending work your way.



                    Originally Posted by GaiaGoddess View Post

                    I am horrible at persuasion and influence, nobody in my life has ever respected my opinions or suggestions about anything, so I guess I should take that as a sign I am not meant to do this. I am also not good at solving problems (even my own, lol)...the value I want to add to the world is just by sharing information, that doesn't really solve a problem, it just gives them something to read for a few minutes.
                    This points to low self-image. Something to work on.
                    Anyone can learn persuasion and get better at it. It's a skill.


                    Originally Posted by GaiaGoddess View Post

                    I just got an idea from reading this! I could ask people to give their firsthand accounts of a certain herb and then write short ebooks with those in it!
                    Awesome. All the best. Would like to see them once published, as it is an area of interest.

                    Originally Posted by GaiaGoddess View Post

                    That first one is $130! I would have bought it before but now that I'm unemployed I need to use money just for essentials. I tried to find it used on Amazon but it isn't even on there. I did find Unscripted for $7 on Kindle, judging by the chapter titles it looks like I could skip right to the 2nd half since the first half is telling you all about why we shouldn't be slaves anymore, hell I knew that when I was a child, lol but the 2nd half looks like it could help me. It's the cheaper of the two so I'll probably get it.
                    If you're talking about the version on the anything-fast website, when you click on the buy now link, at the bottom, where you enter credit card details, it shows the price as $97 for a single payment, or 2 monthly payments of $49.50.

                    If you want the first edition, it is available for one payment of $49.50 (Just google 'How to get Money for Anything Fast First Edition' and it is a page on the anything-fast website.

                    All those prices are USD, and I'm presuming that you are in the US. If you are in Australia as I am, the $97 translates to about AUD 130.


                    Originally Posted by GaiaGoddess View Post

                    I spent about a month trying EFT years ago, I didnt feel any difference. I totally felt duped. I guess not everything works for everyone.
                    The thing is you tried. No reason to feel duped. CBT works for some, EFT works for some, EMDR works for some, etc. Just have to keep looking till you find the one that works for you.


                    Originally Posted by GaiaGoddess View Post

                    Yeah I don't disagree with that, I'm just saying there are TONS of methods of marketing and as I'm learning, there are some more genuine than others. Those are the ones I have to research and see if they are a good fit for me. But I still think whatever I end up doing, it won't involve selling anything. I do want to try writing books again (since that's passive) but I think in the long run I will have to do something where I trade my time for money, just not at a physical job, something online.
                    We are all striving to find and use the most genuine ways to connect to and add value to our prospective clients and convert them to clients. One thing that really helped me with understanding what genuine marketing and selling is when I was introduced to Jay Abraham's 'Strategy of Preeminence' by one highly introverted and successful online marketer Andre Chaperon (Andre's emails and pre-sell pages are awesome - very conversational and story-based and genuine). Check YouTube for Jay Abraham's video on the Strategy of Preeminence to see if it strikes a chord with you.

                    Originally Posted by GaiaGoddess View Post

                    Yes, they are all business owners. I think they mostly deal with helping people start their own businesses. They are all members of a private group on FB about passive income.
                    Excellent, hopefully they will help you do what they do. Are you in that group and getting guidance from them?
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                    • Profile picture of the author GaiaGoddess
                      Originally Posted by WarWizard View Post

                      This points to low self-image. Something to work on.
                      Anyone can learn persuasion and get better at it. It's a skill.
                      I have never heard that not being persuasive means you have low self image, I would think it would be the opposite...because someone who has a high self image isn't going to be bothered if they can't persuade someone to buy their product.

                      We are all striving to find and use the most genuine ways to connect to and add value to our prospective clients and convert them to clients. One thing that really helped me with understanding what genuine marketing and selling is when I was introduced to Jay Abraham's 'Strategy of Preeminence' by one highly introverted and successful online marketer Andre Chaperon (Andre's emails and pre-sell pages are awesome - very conversational and story-based and genuine). Check YouTube for Jay Abraham's video on the Strategy of Preeminence to see if it strikes a chord with you.
                      I just watched a video about it, so basically the main aspect of it is you have to evoke emotions from your client that they have never told anyone, therefore making them trust you and feel they have a connection with you? That is pretty much what all these people were doing when they sent me PM's offering their help, lol Yeah it always works when they can tell YOU how you feel.

                      Excellent, hopefully they will help you do what they do. Are you in that group and getting guidance from them?
                      Yeah I'm in a few FB groups about online business, but 99% of it is for people who already have a business So for now I'm just soaking up as much info as I can.
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                      • Profile picture of the author WarWizard
                        Originally Posted by GaiaGoddess View Post

                        I have never heard that not being persuasive means you have low self image, I would think it would be the opposite...because someone who has a high self image isn't going to be bothered if they can't persuade someone to buy their product.
                        Sorry, my bad. My short answer lacked clarity.

                        This is what you said:
                        "I am horrible at persuasion and influence, nobody in my life has ever respected my opinions or suggestions about anything, so I guess I should take that as a sign I am not meant to do this. I am also not good at solving problems (even my own, lol)...the value I want to add to the world is just by sharing information, that doesn't really solve a problem, it just gives them something to read for a few minutes."

                        The part in red is what I'm talking about. Persuasion can be learnt and you can learn it if you really want to.


                        Originally Posted by GaiaGoddess View Post

                        I just watched a video about it, so basically the main aspect of it is you have to evoke emotions from your client that they have never told anyone, therefore making them trust you and feel they have a connection with you? That is pretty much what all these people were doing when they sent me PM's offering their help, lol Yeah it always works when they can tell YOU how you feel.
                        Not completely. It is about caring for your potential customer long before any money has changed hands and having their well being as the highest priority, which means not doing anything that would hurt them in any way.

                        Originally Posted by GaiaGoddess View Post

                        Yeah I'm in a few FB groups about online business, but 99% of it is for people who already have a business So for now I'm just soaking up as much info as I can.
                        Don't spend too much time soaking up info, it will lead to paralysis by analysis and confusion. Choose one or two sources and people and follow everything they say/do and act on it ASAP.
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                        • Profile picture of the author GaiaGoddess
                          Originally Posted by WarWizard View Post

                          Not completely. It is about caring for your potential customer long before any money has changed hands and having their well being as the highest priority, which means not doing anything that would hurt them in any way.
                          Oh, yeah...the question is, how can you do that kind of marketing when you're working online? The only way I can think of is to regularly chat with your audience (just your friends and peers, really). That is why I like how those ladies in the FB group are doing it, just getting to know people online naturally through conversation and then telling them what your products and/or services are.

                          Don't spend too much time soaking up info, it will lead to paralysis by analysis and confusion. Choose one or two sources and people and follow everything they say/do and act on it ASAP.
                          I feel like I can't make an informed decision though until I have spent a long time researching it and learning as much as I can about it. I'm like this with all knowledge I attain, I don't even trust anything unless I've read or heard the same thing from multiple sources over a long period of time. The part that is giving me analysis paralysis is only figuring which of my interests I want to pursue. If I only had one, that would have eliminated that part of the process.
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                          • Profile picture of the author WarWizard
                            Originally Posted by GaiaGoddess View Post

                            Oh, yeah...the question is, how can you do that kind of marketing when you're working online? The only way I can think of is to regularly chat with your audience (just your friends and peers, really). That is why I like how those ladies in the FB group are doing it, just getting to know people online naturally through conversation and then telling them what your products and/or services are.
                            This is exactly what is happening when you are part of FB groups or forums, you have conversations which in essence are marketing various ideas to you. You then choose to act on an idea that you're sold on is the best solution for a problem you're facing.

                            You can do that for others by having a free FB group where like-minded people congregate to talk about a specific topic like the herbal medicine you talked about earlier. Then, if there are ways you can help someone deeper, offer them the opportunity to work with you directly for money they pay you.

                            There are so many FB groups where people are in and talk about a certain topic, and then there is the opportunity to work with either the group owner or coaches in the group for a fee to go deeper.

                            Originally Posted by GaiaGoddess View Post

                            I feel like I can't make an informed decision though until I have spent a long time researching it and learning as much as I can about it. I'm like this with all knowledge I attain, I don't even trust anything unless I've read or heard the same thing from multiple sources over a long period of time. The part that is giving me analysis paralysis is only figuring which of my interests I want to pursue. If I only had one, that would have eliminated that part of the process.
                            You would be what is known as a high Fact-Finder in the Kolbe A Index. Someone who cannot move forward without all the facts. So, if that is the case, you need to prioritise what you really want to do and work towards that.

                            You said you want an online way of making an income, so although there are a million ways to approach that, what exactly do you want to trade to make that happen? whether that is as a freelancer in Upwork, Fiverr or any of the myriad of other options out there, or creating your own business that you have control over.

                            Once you've decided that, choose an audience you want to serve first (you don't have to be locked into this for ever). and start looking at what skills and information you need to make this happen, and then go deep and research ONLY those and take action as soon as you have enough information to make an informed decision on the NEXT STEP FORWARD.

                            Once you've taken that step, then look into what is required for the next step and then research on only that and move forward.

                            I got this summary about the Kolbe Action Modes from appliedvisionworks.com

                            "There are four main aspects to the Kolbe Index which are known as action modes. These help leaders determine not just what kind of employee a prospect will be, but also how best to help them achieve maximum satisfaction while moving a business forward.

                            Fact Finder: How you gather and share information
                            This is your propensity to seek out information before acting, or before making a decision. Are you more likely to read a recipe, watch a video, and witness a demonstration before cooking a new dish? Do you only need some information before starting to cook (it's chicken and it will be sautéed)? Or are you more likely to see a picture and wing it from there?

                            Follow Thru: The way you arrange and design
                            Are you a systems creator, or a person who bypasses the system to get the task done? Those who score high here are able to document processes and develop repeatable systems; they won't put a puzzle together until they are sure all the pieces are present. Those who score low here adapt to find ways to accomplish the tasks through multitasking or other shortcuts.

                            Quick Start: How you deal with risk and uncertainty
                            This describes your propensity to do stuff without knowing the outcome. Typically, a high QuickStart person will be heard saying stuff like, "I don't know, let's just try something!" They are an experimenter. Those who score low here will want to stick with tried and true plans, avoiding risk taking. Those scoring in the middle of the road will check things out before trying them.

                            Implementor: How you handle space and intangibles
                            This measures how we work with physical space. For example, do we work with our hands to create something physical? Those who score low here can visualize things and they can understand how physical objects work together. Those who score high here can create physical solutions to problems. Most mechanical people tend to be high scorers in Implementor."

                            So, work with your strengths, but at the same time, don't let your limiting beliefs stop you from adding skills (persuasion, marketing, sales, technical, etc) to your repertoire.
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                            • Profile picture of the author GaiaGoddess
                              Originally Posted by WarWizard View Post

                              You said you want an online way of making an income, so although there are a million ways to approach that, what exactly do you want to trade to make that happen? whether that is as a freelancer in Upwork, Fiverr or any of the myriad of other options out there, or creating your own business that you have control over.

                              Once you've decided that, choose an audience you want to serve first (you don't have to be locked into this for ever). and start looking at what skills and information you need to make this happen, and then go deep and research ONLY those and take action as soon as you have enough information to make an informed decision on the NEXT STEP FORWARD.

                              Once you've taken that step, then look into what is required for the next step and then research on only that and move forward.
                              I have gone through all that already, probably 10 times! It isn't that I don't know how to do things, I have been there, tried that, pretty much.

                              I got this summary about the Kolbe Action Modes from appliedvisionworks.com

                              "There are four main aspects to the Kolbe Index which are known as action modes. These help leaders determine not just what kind of employee a prospect will be, but also how best to help them achieve maximum satisfaction while moving a business forward.

                              Fact Finder: How you gather and share information
                              This is your propensity to seek out information before acting, or before making a decision. Are you more likely to read a recipe, watch a video, and witness a demonstration before cooking a new dish? Do you only need some information before starting to cook (it's chicken and it will be sautéed)? Or are you more likely to see a picture and wing it from there?

                              Follow Thru: The way you arrange and design
                              Are you a systems creator, or a person who bypasses the system to get the task done? Those who score high here are able to document processes and develop repeatable systems; they won't put a puzzle together until they are sure all the pieces are present. Those who score low here adapt to find ways to accomplish the tasks through multitasking or other shortcuts.

                              Quick Start: How you deal with risk and uncertainty
                              This describes your propensity to do stuff without knowing the outcome. Typically, a high QuickStart person will be heard saying stuff like, "I don't know, let's just try something!" They are an experimenter. Those who score low here will want to stick with tried and true plans, avoiding risk taking. Those scoring in the middle of the road will check things out before trying them.

                              Implementor: How you handle space and intangibles
                              This measures how we work with physical space. For example, do we work with our hands to create something physical? Those who score low here can visualize things and they can understand how physical objects work together. Those who score high here can create physical solutions to problems. Most mechanical people tend to be high scorers in Implementor."

                              So, work with your strengths, but at the same time, don't let your limiting beliefs stop you from adding skills (persuasion, marketing, sales, technical, etc) to your repertoire.
                              This looks interesting, I am gonna check out the website! I love tests like that where you learn about yourself to help you figure things out. Although I can't say it has helped me a whole lot, but it sure is fun, lol
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                    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
                      That's pretty much what I've been doing for at least a decade now
                      I've read this thread with interest - and read your responses (50 posts in this thread are yours) to various advice/suggestions.

                      I think you are right - you are not cut out for marketing. No, I don't think you can make a living online.

                      You don't like selling or marketing - or any of the other processes and tasks involved in building an online income. You are focused on lifestyle and what you like to do and avoiding boredom - not the mindset of a business person or an entrepreneur.

                      Nothing wrong with that - IM doesn't suit everyone. Good to eliminate what you don't want to do for income - so you can focus on other possibilities.


                      This thread is eerily similar to the first thread started by the OP in 2015


                      https://www.warriorforum.com/main-in...ey-online.html


                      3 years later - 3 years older - nothing has changed
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                      • Profile picture of the author GaiaGoddess
                        Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

                        I've read this thread with interest - and read your responses (50 posts in this thread are yours) to various advice/suggestions.
                        How is it pertinent that 50 of the posts were mine? I just answer people's replies.

                        You don't like selling or marketing - or any of the other processes and tasks involved in building an online income. You are focused on lifestyle and what you like to do and avoiding boredom - not the mindset of a business person or an entrepreneur.
                        Actually most personal development advice I hear is to focus on the lifestyle you want to live and what you like to do. It's one of the ways to attract what you want into your life by living it and focusing on it. And I don't do things to avoid boredom, I have the opposite problem, I WISH I was bored so I didn't feel so overwhelmed with all the stuff I have to do.

                        Nothing wrong with that - IM doesn't suit everyone. Good to eliminate what you don't want to do for income - so you can focus on other possibilities.
                        I agree...I'm just having trouble finding those other possibilities. I have a few ideas from other groups I've posted in, because those aren't focused just on marketing, which this forum is. I didn't realize that when I joined, in fact I didn't realize that until I made this thread. So I guess from now on, I'll have no reason to come back in here.

                        This thread is eerily similar to the first thread started by the OP in 2015


                        https://www.warriorforum.com/main-in...ey-online.html


                        3 years later - 3 years older - nothing has changed
                        Well that post was me venting about how I've tried so many things and none of them were the right fit. This post is me specifically asking if there was anything online I could do that doesn't involve marketing. There IS, but since this group is all about marketing, of course people are going to say no. But that's ok because I'm narrowing things down, at least. I wouldn't say nothing has changed, I would say i'm narrowing things down to get a more accurate idea of what I want, after finding out what I don't want.
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                      • Profile picture of the author OptedIn
                        Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

                        3 years later - 3 years older - nothing has changed
                        Having people on 'Ignore' does have one down side. You can't keep up with the insanity. In my weak moments I wonder what I'm missing. lol
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              • Profile picture of the author Frank Donovan
                Originally Posted by GaiaGoddess View Post

                Another lady messaged me this: "You were asking the question of if you can make a living online without advertising...I love that question because that is exactly what I do! I help women entrepreneurs to increase their exposure and credibility and revenue - without advertising or public relations."
                You realize that was an advertising message, don't you?
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                • Profile picture of the author GaiaGoddess
                  Originally Posted by Frank Donovan View Post

                  You realize that was an advertising message, don't you?
                  She was just having a conversation with me, on Facebook. She didn't have to spend any money on ads or create a landing page or run an elaborate sales funnel, all she had to do was send me a private message. To me that isn't the kind of marketing I'm talking about. It's more like just going through life doing what you would normally do anyway.
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              • Profile picture of the author yukon
                Originally Posted by GaiaGoddess View Post

                Another lady messaged me this: "You were asking the question of if you can make a living online without advertising...I love that question because that is exactly what I do! I help women entrepreneurs to increase their exposure and credibility and revenue - without advertising or public relations.

                Most people call that unsolicited spam.

                That's the worst kind of advertising and possibly even a paid fiverr gig.

                Maybe the PM was sincere, I don't know but don't believe everything you read on the internet because most people have a motive.
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                • Profile picture of the author GaiaGoddess
                  Originally Posted by yukon View Post

                  Most people call that unsolicited spam.

                  That's the worst kind of advertising and possibly even a paid fiverr gig.

                  Maybe the PM was sincere, I don't know but don't believe everything you read on the internet because most people have a motive.
                  It wasn't just that one, on FB, I get them every time I post on any forum. I doubt they are spam because these people always post in the forums or in FB groups, just talking to other business owners, theyre just going about their day and see my post and respond. I doubt they are sitting around all day waiting for someone like me to post. They all have legit businesses. Well one person on this forum was sketchy actually, they sent me information about a "business" where you pay a few hundred dollars and you get access to a bunch of ebooks with no copyright anymore so you basically copy and paste and reword some stuff and resell them as your own. That is WAY worse than someone with a legit business offering me advice.
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  • Profile picture of the author cearionmarie
    There are a lot of things I'd like to point out in your post, but I'd like to keep it simple and focus on the important things. Firstly, when you say you can't and when you say you can, both are true as it will depend on what you chose to believe. The mind is actually a limiting factor for some people and for some they have totally dominated the way they chose their lives to be because of something as simple as "mindset". It's actually not wrong to refuse to do any kind of marketing as you can just go and find someone to do that for you, that is something you can call as working smart. However without the resources to do this yet, you will need to build up and start investing in learning the basics. For this one I suggest you try watching videos from the YouTube channel, Minority Mindset.
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    • Profile picture of the author GaiaGoddess
      Originally Posted by cearionmarie View Post

      There are a lot of things I'd like to point out in your post, but I'd like to keep it simple and focus on the important things. Firstly, when you say you can't and when you say you can, both are true as it will depend on what you chose to believe. The mind is actually a limiting factor for some people and for some they have totally dominated the way they chose their lives to be because of something as simple as "mindset". It's actually not wrong to refuse to do any kind of marketing as you can just go and find someone to do that for you, that is something you can call as working smart. However without the resources to do this yet, you will need to build up and start investing in learning the basics. For this one I suggest you try watching videos from the YouTube channel, Minority Mindset.
      I do believe the mind is the limiting factor in a lot of cases, but not all. For example, if someone has a physical or mental disability that stops them from being able to do things, that is obviously not a mind issue. Well maybe the mental one, but definitely not the physical one.

      That youtube channel sounds interesting, as I ALWAYS feel like I am in the minority. I'll check it out, thanks!
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  • Profile picture of the author Rose Anderson
    Part of the problem - as I see it - is this:

    You're asking the question, "Can I run an internet business without marketing?" on a Marketing forum.

    We all believe strongly in the power of marketing or we would not waste our time here discussing and learning new methods. So you're asking us to help you do something that we don't honestly feel is possible.

    Perhaps another forum where people believe they've built their businesses without marketing could offer more of what you're looking to find.

    Even in my ghostwriting business I had to do a lot of marketing in the beginning. Not so much these days since my clients come from referrals. But I couldn't have got it off the ground without letting people know, "I'm here, I write well, and I'm willing to write what you need." In other words - marketing.

    And though I love what I do, I can't say it's perfect. The pros far outweigh the cons which makes me happy. I'm afraid a search for perfection would leave me stressed and eternally looking without ever accomplishing anything.

    I hope you find what makes you happy, pays the bills and leaves enough for travel

    Rose
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    • Profile picture of the author GaiaGoddess
      Originally Posted by Rose Anderson View Post

      Part of the problem - as I see it - is this:

      You're asking the question, "Can I run an internet business without marketing?" on a Marketing forum.

      We all believe strongly in the power of marketing or we would not waste our time here discussing and learning new methods. So you're asking us to help you do something that we don't honestly feel is possible.

      Perhaps another forum where people believe they've built their businesses without marketing could offer more of what you're looking to find.
      I didn't realize this was a forum ONLY for marketing, I thought it was for all kinds of earning money online. I know it's one of the biggest ones, so I thought by asking the largest amount of people I would get the widest variety of answers.
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  • If you know how to market and advertise, you can outsource your work. It will cost more money, but you are no longer being the creative one, you are simply getting someone else to create a piece of the puzzle you need.

    However, you cant make money online unless someone purchases something from you. Therefore there will always be a need to market and advertise products or services.
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  • Profile picture of the author Robin Lundenius
    If you have something valuable to offer then there is NOTHING wrong with exchanging that value for a different typ of value: Money. It's a simple value exchange.

    I used to be stuck in that mindset myself for a long time before I realized that I am limiting myself by thinking this way..

    You have a lifestyle and interests, start sharing that with likeminded people and offer value in someway and monetize off of that! Start getting out of your comfort-zone and challenge yourself, it's fun!

    Good luck,
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    • Profile picture of the author GaiaGoddess
      Originally Posted by Robin Lundenius View Post

      If you have something valuable to offer then there is NOTHING wrong with exchanging that value for a different typ of value: Money. It's a simple value exchange.
      I'm not against that per se, I just don't like the marketing aspect of exchanging value with someone. If I was just out enjoying my day and ran into someone else out enjoying their day and we started talking and we realized we could both help each other, awesome! I didn't have to do a bunch of techie stuff to make that happen.

      You have a lifestyle and interests, start sharing that with likeminded people and offer value in someway and monetize off of that! Start getting out of your comfort-zone and challenge yourself, it's fun!

      Good luck,
      I have tried various ways of doing that stuff but so far nothing has worked because I realized I'm not cut out for those aspects of online marketing, monetizing and advertising, etc.
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  • Profile picture of the author Joycelin Cruz
    I think it's about your mindset, you can't be successful in something you don't believe Find your passion and brainstorm with yourself or your friends how to monetize what you love doing.
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    • Profile picture of the author GaiaGoddess
      Originally Posted by Joycelin Cruz View Post

      I think it's about your mindset, you can't be successful in something you don't believe Find your passion and brainstorm with yourself or your friends how to monetize what you love doing.
      That's pretty much what I've been doing for at least a decade now, lol
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  • Profile picture of the author pedromatosbeja
    I think you need to be around the right people and mentors.That will smooth all the process!
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