Should I start off with learning media buying or copywriting

16 replies
Hello all.

I am new to the whole marketing world, but I know that this is what I want to do.

I know a thing or two about copywriting, media buying, and CRO. But I want to consistently build my skillsets over time. What direction should I take? Should I start with focusing on one domain, or should I learn everything simultaneously?
#buying #copywriting #learning #media #start
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  • Profile picture of the author Monetize
    Originally Posted by Mustafa Jafri View Post

    Hello all.

    I am new to the whole marketing world, but I know that this is what I want to do.

    I know a thing or two about copywriting, media buying, and CRO. But I want to consistently build my skillsets over time. What direction should I take? Should I start with focusing on one domain, or should I learn everything simultaneously?

    You can't learn everything simultaneously, that is impossible.

    Assess your marketable skills and work from there.

    There are hundreds of ways to make money online so you
    need to figure out what they are and what will work for you.

    The most important thing is to start doing something, learn
    from experience, and keep going.
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  • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
    Originally Posted by Mustafa Jafri View Post

    Hello all.
    I am new to the whole marketing world, but I know that this is what I want to do.
    I know a thing or two about copywriting, media buying, and CRO. But I want to consistently build my skillsets over time. What direction should I take? Should I start with focusing on one domain, or should I learn everything simultaneously?
    You say; I know a thing or two about copywriting, media buying, and CRO.

    But do you know this: 99.9% of all businesses (the exception being the well funded, usually tech, start-up) and those JOBS you mention you know something about are all dependent on one thing?

    SALES. Every job in a marketing company will be on the street if that company does not generate sales at a rate where there is a Return On Investment which sustains the company. Did you know that?

    So, what you say in effect when you say, but I know THIS is what I want to do
    ...you are saying you want to SELL something to SOMEBODY, somewhere and make enough sales to be profitable. Do you acknowledge this truth?

    Because, although there are successful people who just work without a reason why, just cause they love to work or to solve problems and they make money in the process of doing this, almost everyone else has a REASON WHY they do business...and most of the time that reason is either one of love or money, and probably both.

    Doing what you love to do, and making money doing it, seems to be a worthwhile goal for most of us.

    Get any book on Business...and I suggest a simple one like Michele Kagan's, CPA, book
    STARTING A BUSINESS 101. It is dirt simple and a quick read. Another one, and it is old, is Ben Suarez' 7 STEPS TO FREEDOM II, which can be had for a song at many sites.

    In 7 STEPS TO FREEDOM II there are cartoons, of a man selling a bird house, if you were to just go through the book and read ONLY THESE CARTOONS, about 15 minutes of time, you would have a better place to start than the one you tell us about.

    If you just like to solve problems, then try to get that skill to match a need in the marketplace, but if your objective is to MAKE MONEY in business, the best advice here at WF over the years has been:

    FIND A NICHE (Market) of BUYERS. People already spending money.
    Find or develop a product these buyers would have an interest in.
    Create a promotion or offer for them, and either joint venture with someone who has a list of these people, or begin from scratch to get your promotion in front of their eyes.

    Then, track all your activity.

    But...before any of this, try to answer the question (for yourself)...WHY do I want to do marketing, and what exactly do I mean by this?

    Your answer will give you much better starting points than any of us could give you.

    GordonJ
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  • Profile picture of the author Ged3
    If you are good at copywriting I would focus on that - plenty of people need the service in various forms.


    As Monetize mentioned there are so many things you can learn.


    Its probably best to focus on that great skill of copywriting that you have and see how you can monetize it - you will then pick up the other skills you need - such as building a website or blog as you go!


    Kind Regards


    Ged
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  • Profile picture of the author Moodesburn1977
    I would learn copy writing, it is ok building a list but u have to know how to engage with your list as you dont want them to unsubscribe, but not just sell all the time, but learn how to give value and treat them as a friend
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  • Profile picture of the author naviown
    Just start, just take action and build something. It doesnt matter if you start building a website, affiliate website or blog. When you start building something you will always face new roadblocks and this would push you to learn and implement, this is how you move forward and learn new things.
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    • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
      Originally Posted by naviown View Post

      Just start, just take action and build something. It doesnt matter if you start building a website, affiliate website or blog. When you start building something you will always face new roadblocks and this would push you to learn and implement, this is how you move forward and learn new things.
      We see a lot of JUST START.

      And there is something to be said for that approach, for a very limited number of want to be business owners. Maybe more so for lost Warriors, who just are clueless, and that could be the majority.

      In referring to the book BUSINESS 101, which D. Wolfe has linked to...it is my sense that even this basic 101 (normally used to signify a beginner's level) is probably too advanced for many. They need 99, or 100...the basics before the beginning.

      If one does follow the chant, JUST START, then I would argue it DOES matter what you start with and instead of going off building sites, or blogs or doing affiliate stuff...one would go back and understand the PRE beginning basics.

      Here they are, in as simple a form as I can make them.

      You want to make $$$$ with a business/or IM?

      THREE THINGS are needed.

      ONE: BUYER (call them prospects, avatars, potential customers, subscribers, etc.)

      TWO: PRODUCT (which includes any services, saas, apps, dfy, or actual doing)

      THREE. PROMOTION and way to take money. The promotion is how you intersect with the buyer.

      Now, of course, the so-called devil is in the details...some of which can be found in all the 101 start here books.

      So, if anyone is really going to take, what in my opinion, is spurious advice; JUST START...then at least you have somewhere of value to start and you will not end up wasting large amounts of time learning things which you may never use.

      Who is your buyer going to be?
      WHAT will you offer to them? Where? When? How?

      How does the transaction take place?

      Check this week's main forum, or any week of the last 20 years and see scores of Warriors who did JUST START, and some of them have been spinning wheels for years.

      Instead of JUST START, why not consider to start with ONE THING that is actually going to be responsible for your success or failure, and that is your BUYER.

      If you don't have customers, no matter what you do, then THAT is what really doesn't matter.

      So, just start with BUYERS, and go from there.

      GordonJ
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      • Profile picture of the author Monetize
        Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post

        Instead of JUST START, why not consider to start with ONE THING that is actually going to be responsible for your success or failure, and that is your BUYER.

        If you don't have customers, no matter what you do, then THAT is what really doesn't matter.

        So, just start with BUYERS, and go from there.

        Obviously people need to buy whatever we are selling.

        But as entrepreneurs, we need to have a vision and a
        product, or a vision of a service, or some idea of what
        we are going to offer before anything else can even
        happen.

        And some type of business model like I'm going to buy
        stuff from A and sell it on E, publish on A, and post
        videos on Y and T.

        Because Action + A + E + T + Y = $$$

        The characteristics of motivation, initiative and drive
        are also essential, but those are ingrained, you either
        have them or you don't.

        I don't have any way to know what some of the people
        are doing, especially the newbies, but I get the feeling
        that many of them are tire kickers and never going to
        take action.

        Fear of failure and lack of motivation are stronger than
        their desire to be independent, and/or independently
        wealthy, being able to cover the rent, or just to stop
        being broke and destitute.
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        • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
          Originally Posted by Monetize View Post

          Obviously people need to buy whatever we are selling.

          But as entrepreneurs, we need to have a vision and a
          product, or a vision of a service, or some idea of what
          we are going to offer before anything else can even
          happen.

          .
          My point of BUYERS first, is the shortcut answer to someone claiming to be NEW to marketing, despite knowing a thing or two about copywriting, media buying and CRO.

          As an Entrepreneur, we need to assess risk, and act in accord with our personal risk comfort level...a beginner, someone NEW to marketing, I would hope, would want to minimize the risk as much as possible.

          To do this, they would start with buyers first. Now it is possible, and more than likely, that many start with a vision or a product, or service and then seek out customers for that.

          But it does take longer and is more expensive to go this route, the reason why AFFILIATE marketing is the de facto starting point for many Warriors is, because, they don't have any vision, product or service in mind, they just want to make money from Internet Marketing.

          Now, I'm probably wrong about this, but I see fewer would be Entrepreneurs here, than just people wanting to make money, and you no doubt understand the big difference between the two.

          And as for being obvious, there is about a 25 year history right here, that shows many are not aware that people need to buy our whatever. If we were having this discussion at a more professional site, or even one like the fastlane forum, it would be different and I would more than likely agree with the idea.

          I don't know what the OP is really asking us, and it is doubtful we'll hear from him again...hopefully he can shed some light on his query, and we can adjust our responses, until then, I stand by BUYERS FIRST for the person who is really NEW to marketing.

          GordonJ
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          • Profile picture of the author savidge4
            Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post

            I stand by BUYERS FIRST for the person who is really NEW to marketing.
            I would take this even a step further and suggest "NEW to marketing" and you should only sell what it is you personally have bought. Starting with YOU being the buyer - starts to put a whole lot of things in context VS I am going to sell weight loss X ( Product ) to fat people ( buyer ) and I have never weighed more than 160 Lbs in my life. There is NO personal context in this what so ever.

            You are left with a list of technical.. build a website, write content, build a lander, figure out an offer.. how to get traffic to your offer... who exactly is your target Buyer ( fat people isnt really a target ) etc etc etc... and this is where "Build it and they will come" comes into play... I did a thing and have been doing a thing for 10 yrs now and I still live in my moms basement - She has threatened to make me help pay for food,, and I need to make money quickly - what am I doing wrong?

            The greater issue in this scenario is they wouldn't know wrong from right... but chances are good they will say something like "My website had 100 visitors last month, and im not selling anything" They don't know that at a level of success that 100 visitors might be seen as a bad hour - or at the very least a good day - not a month.

            I say this an amount here... TRAFFIC is the largest hang up for 99% of the people on this Forum, and yet people say "Build a list" F A R more laughable ( in my opinion ) than JUST START

            I say JUST START with what you know... I say START selling physical product on eBay and the entire issue of "Traffic" just goes away... eBay as an example would be a scenario that Product is first... and you have no need to understand the buyer - but again... YOU are the buyer, and just selling it over.

            PLATFORM selling should be the starting point. Price, Picture and Title is the ABSOLUTE foundation of any and every landing page you will ever create... It is the ABSOLUTE fundamental building blocks of each and every online business in existence. These 3 elements make and break any and every sale.

            When I start an ad campaign on say Facebook... why exactly would I run like 40 different ads with 40 different creatives? IMAGE in relation to target ( Buyer ) is that important. Your Tag line in relation to your target ( buyer ) is that important. and then we can get into developing value to match the Price provided

            Again i can spew this stuff for days... I can start a thing - Just Start - and as I move forward can see the failure points - the average person has not a clue what a failure point is other than 10 yrs later they are in the same place they first started - I tried everything they say - well you need to try everything in a specific order til it actually works - and that order you ask? Traffic, Offer, Sale.
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            Success is an ACT not an idea
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          • Profile picture of the author Monetize
            Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post


            I stand by BUYERS FIRST for the person who is really NEW to marketing.

            I wasn't trying to argue with you or invalidate your point.

            IMO women and men are different in the way they conduct business.

            But I don't have any evidence of this so I'll just leave it at that.
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  • Profile picture of the author DWolfe
    Originally Posted by Mustafa Jafri View Post

    I know a thing or two about copywriting, media buying, and CRO. But I want to consistently build my skillsets over time.
    Welcome to the Forum. If you have any questions about Copywriting or want to learn more about the subject. Spend some time in the Copywriting section here
    https://www.warriorforum.com/copywriting/

    This book was mentioned above, here is the link to save you time.https://www.amazon.com/Starting-Busi.../dp/1507221223 (Disclaimer not an affiliate link)
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  • Profile picture of the author savidge4
    Originally Posted by Mustafa Jafri View Post

    Hello all.

    I am new to the whole marketing world, but I know that this is what I want to do.

    I know a thing or two about copywriting, media buying, and CRO. But I want to consistently build my skillsets over time. What direction should I take? Should I start with focusing on one domain, or should I learn everything simultaneously?
    I would argue/discuss the idea that there needs to be an education shift of sorts. you can LEARN to do all this stuff before you get started OR you can get started and learn what it is you need to know next. For ME the later makes more sense... it puts the learning in context to specifically what you need to know at that very step, you are learning what you need to learn vs taking in a whole scope of information that over time may or may not apply to YOU and your needs.

    Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post

    We see a lot of JUST START.

    If one does follow the chant, JUST START, then I would argue it DOES matter what you start with and instead of going off building sites, or blogs or doing affiliate stuff...one would go back and understand the PRE beginning basics.

    Here they are, in as simple a form as I can make them.

    You want to make $$$$ with a business/or IM?

    THREE THINGS are needed.

    ONE: BUYER (call them prospects, avatars, potential customers, subscribers, etc.)

    TWO: PRODUCT (which includes any services, saas, apps, dfy, or actual doing)

    THREE. PROMOTION and way to take money. The promotion is how you intersect with the buyer.

    Now, of course, the so-called devil is in the details...some of which can be found in all the 101 start here books.

    So, if anyone is really going to take, what in my opinion, is spurious advice; JUST START...then at least you have somewhere of value to start and you will not end up wasting large amounts of time learning things which you may never use.
    Then there is this... and oh trust me I understand a whole lot of what is being said here In this instance there is some amount of knowledge ( based on " I know a thing or two about copywriting, media buying, and CRO " so we can ASSUME they are understanding BUYER.

    What gets interesting ( to me ) is the relationship of these variables we talk about - should i learn Media Buying or Copywriting? or BUYER, PRODUCT, PROMOTION.

    Media buying and copywriting can very quickly be a cart before the horse scenario... you can learn to buy all the traffic you want, but if you dont have copyright skills you will never convert said traffic.

    You can focus on the buyer first... but if you dont know what it is you are selling how can you know who is going to be buying?

    There is simply an interdependent relationship in all of these components You cant take action in any one without knowing aspects of the others.

    SO we are then left with JUST START... you have decided you want to sell X.. build a website for X insert an amount of content. THEN dig deep and understand who your BUYER will be... Add content targeting that specific buyer target. Then understanding your BUYER... you need to understand how to reach said BUYER.. and this is where PROMOTION kicks in. Anyone that "knows" just because you know your buyer and how to get to them, doesnt mean you are going to sell what ever it is you are selling - and then then you have to learn to CONVERT.

    I would drop - anyone even a small amount familiar with CRO is going to understand failure points along the way I am getting clicks and not conversion - there is a block that needs to be figured out. I have content and no views.. there is an issue that needs to be resolved.

    People that have been at it for "years" and have no amount of success are living in the "build it and they will come bubble" plain and simple do not pass go, do not collect $200. They have built the thing... and probably are not getting traffic... they probably are not promoting, and if they are they are not understanding the BUYER - how to target the promoting. More importantly they lack the skills or basic understanding of what and where the failure point is.

    Problem solving is a thing... but identifying there is a problem, and specifically in that moment what that problem is is a whole other. There may be a whole chain of problems and understanding what the 1st step problem is, is a thing.

    Lets take your standard Internet marketing model.. Ad, Lander, Sales page - probably applies to 99% of who ever may read this.

    No traffic? your ads are not right

    You have traffic and no signups, your lander isnt right

    No conversions? your sales page needs work

    No conversion and you are sending traffic to a 3rd party sales site? on your lander you are selling vs pre selling that product

    So back to the OP... start with a website... use what you know it terms of CRO and work through the bottle necks learn what you need to know when you need to know it.
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    Success is an ACT not an idea
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    • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
      Originally Posted by Mustafa Jafri View Post

      Hello all.
      I am new to the whole marketing world, but I know that this is what I want to do.
      I know a thing or two about copywriting, media buying, and CRO. But I want to consistently build my skillsets over time. What direction should I take? Should I start with focusing on one domain, or should I learn everything simultaneously?
      For me, the oxymoron, or contradiction in this is; HOW can one be NEW to the whole marketing world and know a thing or two about copywriting, media buying, and CRO?

      Are these things not a part of marketing? Wasn't CRO, if it means Conversion Rate Optimization (as is the IM standard meaning of CRO)...and its early definition was; CRO is the practice of increasing the percentage of users who perform a desired action when at a website...which implies you somehow got them to the site to start with.

      If you know a thing or even two about it, coupled with copywriting why would you claim being new to it all? What am I missing here?

      Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

      I would argue/discuss the idea that there needs to be an education shift of sorts. you can LEARN to do all this stuff before you get started OR you can get started and learn what it is you need to know next. For ME the later makes more sense... it puts the learning in context to specifically what you need to know at that very step, you are learning what you need to learn vs taking in a whole scope of information that over time may or may not apply to YOU and your needs.



      Then there is this... and oh trust me I understand a whole lot of what is being said here In this instance there is some amount of knowledge ( based on " I know a thing or two about copywriting, media buying, and CRO " so we can ASSUME they are understanding BUYER.

      What gets interesting ( to me ) is the relationship of these variables we talk about - should i learn Media Buying or Copywriting? or BUYER, PRODUCT, PROMOTION.

      Media buying and copywriting can very quickly be a cart before the horse scenario... you can learn to buy all the traffic you want, but if you dont have copyright skills you will never convert said traffic.

      You can focus on the buyer first... but if you dont know what it is you are selling how can you know who is going to be buying?

      There is simply an interdependent relationship in all of these components You cant take action in any one without knowing aspects of the others.

      SO we are then left with JUST START... you have decided you want to sell X.. build a website for X insert an amount of content. THEN dig deep and understand who your BUYER will be... Add content targeting that specific buyer target. Then understanding your BUYER... you need to understand how to reach said BUYER.. and this is where PROMOTION kicks in. Anyone that "knows" just because you know your buyer and how to get to them, doesnt mean you are going to sell what ever it is you are selling - and then then you have to learn to CONVERT.

      I would drop - anyone even a small amount familiar with CRO is going to understand failure points along the way I am getting clicks and not conversion - there is a block that needs to be figured out. I have content and no views.. there is an issue that needs to be resolved.

      People that have been at it for "years" and have no amount of success are living in the "build it and they will come bubble" plain and simple do not pass go, do not collect $200. They have built the thing... and probably are not getting traffic... they probably are not promoting, and if they are they are not understanding the BUYER - how to target the promoting. More importantly they lack the skills or basic understanding of what and where the failure point is.

      Problem solving is a thing... but identifying there is a problem, and specifically in that moment what that problem is is a whole other. There may be a whole chain of problems and understanding what the 1st step problem is, is a thing.

      Lets take your standard Internet marketing model.. Ad, Lander, Sales page - probably applies to 99% of who ever may read this.

      No traffic? your ads are not right

      You have traffic and no signups, your lander isnt right

      No conversions? your sales page needs work

      No conversion and you are sending traffic to a 3rd party sales site? on your lander you are selling vs pre selling that product

      So back to the OP... start with a website... use what you know it terms of CRO and work through the bottle necks learn what you need to know when you need to know it.
      Well, for the discussion sake of it all...I can NOT assume he knows anything about the buyer. Because...if he knows about CRO, he knows how someone got to a site, and once there, he knows how to engage them (and along with any real copywriting skills, to influence them {as part of the CRO} )

      And we see the age old argument, Product vs Customer first, and in the real world, and maybe even in this virtual world, there likely is an even split of having a product first and/or having a buyer first. One can take action knowing only who a buyer is, it has been done for decades, it is what made the SRDS book of lists such a valuable tool, to find BUYERS first, and then to create products for them. And that is still true today, and one may say, it could be a faster route to take. Maybe.

      Also, there is ample evidence that knowing your buyer, as in really KNOWING, would include the problem/solution aspect as any copywriter would, and also know what method might be best utilized to influence them...and the CRO would incorporate that into it.

      And what I don't get also, is, if he starts with a website, what is he offering? I do agree that the learning is WHAT IS NEEDED NEXT, but in the context of the OP already knowing a thing or two about this and that...I don't understand what he wants. I guess others have a better feel for what he is asking/saying?

      GordonJ
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  • Profile picture of the author delizzia
    Definetely focus on only one thing at a time. If you like one of these things you mentioned more than the others, that should be your choice.
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  • Originally Posted by Mustafa Jafri View Post

    Hello all.

    I am new to the whole marketing world, but I know that this is what I want to do.

    I know a thing or two about copywriting, media buying, and CRO. But I want to consistently build my skillsets over time. What direction should I take? Should I start with focusing on one domain, or should I learn everything simultaneously?
    How may yr expertise spill ovah to U+Whoevah advantage?

    See, bcs I coulda run with STRIPPIN' but I ran with SUPPLY OF LAYERS.

    What intrests Moi is your final question.

    Bcs herein lies the crux point of most decision makin' -- from forum mongrels seekin' to hit big to minor deities safeguardin' 'gainst abominable falls.

    Focus has advantage bcs you can specialize yr intrest an' skills ... but at what stage may THE PLANIT decide you no longah relevant tvm?

    I guess ima askin' a LENS vs SCOPE query here.

    It is a VIEWPOINT thing -- your own, plus also the horizon of all with whom you seek to ally yusself.

    An' it is a shiftin' landscape alla the time -- this *spot* where you would wanna wish the LENS/SCOPE axis to perfectly languish always.

    Seems to Moi, evrywan eithah momentarily focused on driven specifics or castin' nets inta the pond.

    Occasionally, we are still, an' we are perfect.

    Thing is mebbe to figure anywan seekin' you out arrived via eithah a LENS or a SCOPE.

    tbh you gotta reward both viewpoints, plus mebbe throw in DANCIN' KITTENS.

    Test yr day, tamara, on this:

    You gaht all kindsa DRIVES for all kindsa PURPOSE.

    An' yet there is a place beyond your immediate circumstance, into which significant surprises somehow surely shazam.

    LENS or SCOPE, we all seein' SUMTHIN'.

    Jus' gotta agree WHAT, I guess.
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    Lightin' fuses is for blowin' stuff togethah.

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  • Profile picture of the author Fort Media
    Media buying is an interesting thing if you can spend few months in learning with an expert. otherwise its a bit difficult for a newbie to be successful as a media buyer, the big problem i found as a media buyer in my early stage was, the lack of resource. not sure if its still like this or not.
    But copywriting as the other part of the game and I think its more easy to start but scaling is difficult in this field. In terms of value as an individual, from copywriting you can earn $2k to $6k max, there are some amazing ccopywriter who even makes $15k+ per month but not sure how. surly they have a team for this.
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