You're Trying Too Damn Hard!

Hey Marc thanks for the wisdom. You know yesterday I was reading something witten by Scott Haines here is what it said:

"It's better to be really fast and good enough than really slow and perfect. Money and success are attracted to speed much more so than perfectionism. Besides, there's no such thing as "perfect" anyway. Nothing has ever been written, that--according to the "rules"--doesn't have some flaw or flaws. So get over it and get on with making money from your writing"

And you know what I agree with you both.

Dead on, Mark.

--- Ross

One more thing...

I just watched Man of Steel.

I was kinda psyched to see it.

There was a lot of raw, genuine emotion in there.

But the movie was too damn over-produced. It became a convoluted mess IMO.

Over-thought. And over-cooked.

It's a movie that was helmed by total perfectionists.

I liked the story they were trying to tell. The characters were good. But I could tell they got lost in it. I'm sure that's happened to many a copywriter too. You know, you had what you thought was going to be a winning letter, but you edited and revised it - until all of your excitement was exhausted and extinguished.

I just thought that since movies are really just big marketing pieces, and I'm supposed to be in their target demographic... I'd make that comparison.

Mark

A baseless (and frankly ridiculous) statement.

The type of conjecture that comes from stream-of-consciousness, unedited writing.

Alex

Loving this thread. Can't believe I stumbled upon it actually.

I've never considered myself a writer. But the last few days I've been writing like crazy.

And the way Mark describes it as "organic", "real", "channeling", "stream-of-consciousness" is exactly how I would describe it.

So weird how it sometimes seems like the same idea is permeating the consciousness of different people at the same time.

Actually, I've never really liked to write.

So now I'm trying to understand what happened to me recently that I suddenly feel the urge to write. And when I do, it just spills onto the paper without effort.

It kind of freaks me out to be honest.

Mark, I understand exactly what you're saying...and you're spot on.

I know people sometimes read things and come to different conclusions, but I didn't get the idea you were saying to throw out all the copywriting principles, or all the tried and tested things that have been found to work.

My take on your post is that you're saying get more one on one with your customer. Talk to them as though you're face to face...in a real live conversation. Talking to them as though you're both sitting down drinking a cup of coffee together.

I agree 100%.

Like you said, too many times we read something a newbie wrote, and we can immediately tell they're trying to impress with fancy language...language they'd never use if the person was standing in front of them. I've read the same stuff in more advanced copywriters work also.

Someone asked for a critique the other day and got some responses. In answer to one of the responses he gave a quick overview of what he was really trying to say. I left a post and told him he had the beginnings of a good sales letter because he was actually talking like he was a real human (something to that effect).

When you go back and start editing too much, you begin to lose the warm emotion and start to college educate your writing. By the time you're done the letter starts to sound more like a thesis on the product.

A smart copywriter (like yourself) knows how to sound like a 5th grader, while using advanced stellar copywriting techniques in the background. Kinda like a stealth fighter jet that sneaks in and delivers an earth shattering blow.

Beware of the country bumpkin that sounds like they're from the sticks when he/she is trying to sell you a coon skin cap...they just may have hidden talent that takes your billfold for a ride.

Anyways, great post.

Anyone would be wise to follow your advice.

Thanks.

Fascinating discussion.

I think what Mark is getting at, is that when you write "all in one go"... the THOUGHTS behind your writing tend to be coherent, cohesive, and contiguous.

That idea you had about where you're going, well, it tends to stay the same from one word to the next. If your mind changes a little, it's reflected in your writing, and your writing changes smoothly from one word to the next, "tracking" your thinking.

On the other hand, when you keep going back to edit, edit, edit, re-edit, and tweak... well, your mind isn't quite in the same place.

That word that.. just by the sound of it in the reader's mind... kind of re-references the earlier point you made? Well, you've forgotten about that (because you never realized it, that was just your subconscious putting it in).

After a few edits, that "interlocking web" of visible and oh-so-subtle things in your text has been CHOPPED UP like a Cessna getting attacked by a jilted lover with a chainsaw, and then put back together. At least, if you're not careful.

Now, what Rick is talking about is something totally different... before you start to write, you gotta know what the heck you're doing. Only if you have all the sales tools within easy reach inside your mind, and full knowledge of what to do with them, will that "first go through" come out with all the selling power you can pull together.

As for editing? Yeah, that takes practice...!

If Mark was talking about telling simple stories that hit home with the reader in quick and compelling ways, that's what I'm on board with. And when copy has a more "organic" feel it can get under the hype-radar of an innately skeptical reader.

I still edit like a mad man, but I edit to fully achieve the organic feel, not lose it.

I didn't read any of the "heart-wrenching" over-wrought emotional-plea stuff out of Mark's post.

--- Ross

David Ogilvy

Mark, in terms of core principles copywriters can use, you're advocating:

1. Do your research.

2. Write like you talk (or like your Client talks.) Natural. Organic. Real.

3. Write "stream of consciousness." Let it come out.

4. Vernacular mistakes, "goofs and quirks" are to be kept in.

5. Minimal editing. Once or twice over. No "over polishing." Don't aim for perfection.

Is this accurate? I just want to be clear, before I offer my opinion.

- Rick Duris

PS: Feel free to adjust if I've missed something.

Looks like you were "Trying Too Damn Hard" with your post.

Started to read it and thought "yes, makes sense".

And then you go on.

And on.

With just too many short sentences on too many lines.

Aside from that: nice post!

Writing Copy is like getting sick on the page.

Then you need to pick the carrots out.

Given your previous posts, if you can do what you're advocating Mark, more power to you.

----

Compiling, absorbing, assimilating the research and then "channeling" clear, concise, compelling, converting copy in one shot, giving it only a "once or twice over"?

Wow.

I know of very few copywriters who can do that. That truly is "too damn hard" for most people. Even professional, experienced copywriters.

Maybe if you're writing daily emails or blog posts. That, I can understand.

But a 16-30 page sales letter or video script in a competitive market?

----

Now, as for writing like you talk or as your Client talks? I strongly disagree with that as well.

My position is you want to write in a way your prospect will be receptive to your message. You want to write in a way your prospect will listen. You want to write in a way your prospect will take action.

It's NOT all about you and how you communicate. Regardless whether the "goofs and quirks" are left in or out.

(Personally as a copywriter, goofs and quirks are the least of my worries.)

For instance, (regardless of whether one likes it or not,) hypey copy converts best for bizopp promotions.

This we know.

But I've known many a professional manager, thinking themselves an expert communicator, try to write copy for the bizopp market and fail.

Why? They hate hype. They're repulsed by it. They prefer to communicate their message in corporate-speak.

But it doesn't work.

What's worse is they walk away thinking their bizopp idea didn't have merit. When maybe it was the way they communicated their offer that cost them their business.

You see this a lot in MLM endeavors where the MLM raw recruit thinks he/she has a better way communicating the company's product or service.

I was talking to an owner of a network marketing company last week and asked him what his biggest challenge was. He said training new recruits to get out of their own way.

His company is successful and puts on informative trainings to bring people up-to-speed. But some people are bound and determined to do it "their way."

It's frustrating for him watching them fail. So much opportunity lost.

Another example: I was talking to a musician the other day. He's very good, but financial success has alluded him.

Why? He writes and plays to please himself rather than the audience. The reason couldn't have been more obvious.

----

The last thing that prohibits me from adopting your process is complying with governmental regulations.

Unless the regulations are firmly ingrained in one's mind, it is for practical purposes, impossible to write stream-on-conscious copy and have it pass muster. Even as a first draft.

Just too damn hard.

----

In most projects I'm involved with? There's somewhere between 10 and 30 rounds of edits. Major back and forth with Clients and partners. Course correcting as we go.

But even before I submit the first version, I'll go through 20 and 30 painstaking rounds of edits myself before anyone else sees it.

While you may consider me a perfectionist, to me it's just the nature of things.

The vast majority of my time is spent editing. Way more than the research phase.

So "giving it just a once or twice over"?

I wish.

----

I'm not debunking your process here, Mark. It works for you.

But I believe what you're advocating people do is just "too damn hard." Too damn hard, especially if one intends to compete. Especially if what one writes has to convert.

I may be a perfectionist. That, I'll confess. But you gotta be a goddamn genius yourself to do what you say you do.

- Rick Duris

Why is writing - exactly as I've described - "so damn hard?"

It isn't.

The problem is...

When you don't know how to let go; when you don't know how to allow your instincts to take the reins, your resistance makes everything, hard. (Viagra not required.)

In the boxing ring...

I loved fighting guys who studied under the most meticulous trainers. Because I knew I'd likely be in the ring with someone who's stuck in their head. When a fighter over-thinks, his innate intelligence malfunctions. In other words, he can't execute what he already knows. You'll hear commentators talk about it (without knowing what they're really saying,) "Look at Joe Blow. He looks tight."

Why is Joe tight?

Well, he's making the fight "too damn hard" by thinking about all the techniques he needs to perfectly execute. "Jab, jab, jab. No... Don't throw your hook like that! Are you an idiot?!?!"

I know this is getting a little too out there, but think about what resistance is...

It's the act of directing your attention in the opposite direction of where you really want to go.

In Joe's case, the boy shoulda meditated, did some yoga and relaxed - before heading out to the ring.

It's the same with writing...

You have to trust your instincts.

Or...

You'll likely get lost in analysis-paralysis and sabotage your best efforts.

Think about it...

How many converting ideas have you ruined because of being a perfectionist? How many great ideas have you talked yourself out of because you don't trust your instincts?

The truth is...

Not many copywriters have Rick's skills of being able to noodle with something until it really is perfect. That's a fact.

So most copywriters are much more likely to hit the ball outta the park - if they relax, let go... and allow what they know to come through - without worrying about how many rounds of editing it'll take to polish the copy. (And yes, editing is always required. But it should be just as "flowing" as your stream of consciousness - no matter how many rounds it takes.)

That being said...

I can totally see where Rick is coming from. Most people don't trust their instincts. So they repress their them and make things more difficult than they have to be. Maybe it's ego. Maybe it's too much education. Maybe it's the pressure of being paid to essentially be a slot machine. (Bruce actually summed it up way better than me with his "Humble yourself" comment.)

I agree with Rick...

Researching in markets that are extremely competitive...and require you to come to bat with something spectacular...

...will likely require a ton of work and collaboration - before writing a single damn word.

That's part of "the writing process."

You might a HUGE learning curve. And you've gotta study, study, study - before you can let go; before you can let it flow.

Do that. It's "the writing process" that accounts for uncovering the hook... and creating an irresistible CTA.

And when I say writing process, that more than includes researching, collaborating, thinking, analyzing, etc. The actual writing is only a part of the process.

But then you walk away from it all. Go sit on a mountain. Pound the pavement (i.e. go on a jog or run.) Take a swim.. Go get drunk at the pub - listening to some killer tunes. Whatever. Unplug. I mean, REALLY unplug.

It won't be long before you're hit with lightening (i.e. the big idea) and have to get in front of the computer as soon as humanly possible.

That's when the stream of consciousness begins. Don't question it. You'll wake up and go back to scientist mode. (Which is another way of saying you'll resist the flow with oppositional thinking.)

Bruce Lee once said, “Learning is never cumulative, it is a movement of knowing which has no beginning and no end.”

What does that mean?

You'll never know it all. Ever. No matter how much of a perfectionist you are. Likewise, your copy will never be perfect. So you shouldn't even strive for it.

One more Bruce Lee quote:

“A goal is not always meant to be reached. It often serves simply as something to aim at.”

What's your goal?

You've probably got a few of them...

You want to make the client happy.

You want to write something you're jacked about.

You want to reach your avatar. (You want to be spot on about who your avatar is.)

You want your copy to convert... and make everyone involved tons of money.

You want acknowledgement for your genius.

Blah Blah Blah...

Like The Rock would say...

"It doesn't matter what you want!"

Get over it.

Get over yourself.

You've spent lots of time and money learning, researching, absorbing...

...now let it come out. Unfiltered. Uncensored. And in it's raw form.

Copy is just talking. It's having a conversation.

Sure, it goes deeper than that. But so do regular conversations. There are always so many psychological nuances at play that most people never acknowledge or realize.

If you're good...

You know what those nuances are... and can spot them - like The Mentalist.

Great.

'Tis the season...

Let it flow. Let it flow. Let it flow.

Mark

P.S. There's always something better than what you wrote. Always. That's why even the best controls ultimately get beat. You don't know all the answers... The questions are always changing. Accept it. And do your best with whatcha you got. Because every market and niche is also always changing - as new controls are introduced... and old controls are destroyed.

P.P.S. My OP has nothing to do pleasing myself. Quite the opposite. Honing in upon the avatar is another big part of the writing process. That has to flow too. But reaching the audience - in the way that I or my client natural speaks - IS effective copy. That's HOW prospects are reached. Imagine if someone told Tony Robbins to talk differently; he'd never reach anyone.

P.P.PS. Letting go... trusting your instincts... and allowing the copy to flow is a skill. And yes, it does require you to be an extremely competent, adept copywriter - who has gathered the skills to (potentially) write the top controls in any competitive marketplace or niche. But I'd rather master the skill of letting the copy come through... rather than feeling the need to control and perfect every aspect of my copy. Which is also a skill. And I personally think it's a skill that's more difficult to master.

Warrior Forum Members,

I want to apologize for my language.

I now realize I was wasting the moderator's time. But not only that, I just wasted your time.

You who posted, invested hours hours into that thread. I know I did.

So I want to apologize for my language. I see now it was inappropriate and if you were offended by it, I'm sorry. I truly am.

You guys posted some great content. Personal. Educational. Useful. Informative. Thought provoking.

I want to apologize to everybody who posted. Rick, Ross, Memetics... everybody. Yes, even you Alex. I'm sorry.

To see the thread disappear this morning broke my heart. Kinda like losing a sales letter I worked on all week, because of a power outage.

Here's what I hope. I hope you'll forgive me.

Then, I hope the Moderator will reinstate the thread. I'll go back and delete all my swear words. And I promise never to use them again on this forum.

That's what I hope.

Again, my apologies. I know words matter to you guys. And to see them mass deleted was just heartbreaking.

Mark

P.S. Thanks Paul and Rick for your help.

Thanks Paul.

I appreciate it.

Mark