What do you think of princesses who swear like sailors?

29 replies
I went ahead and stirred up a ton of shit in the FB cult.

For those who aren't members, thought I'd get some additional perspective.

F-bombs selling feminist t-shirts

The level of offense is very interesting. I saw a pattern interrupt and a blatant marketing tactic. Many others were SUPER quick to take sides. And most of the convo is about feminazis and little girls swearing and behaving like brats.

In other words, the message was lost.

Like it? Hate it? Think it could be improved?
#princesses #sailors #swear
  • Profile picture of the author jjosephs
    Originally Posted by angiecolee View Post

    I went ahead and stirred up a ton of shit in the FB cult.

    For those who aren't members, thought I'd get some additional perspective.

    [URL="https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=793691827336181&set=vb.145318588840178 &type=2&theater"]

    In other words, the message was lost.

    Like it? Hate it? Think it could be improved?
    Personally, hate it. Everything about it is cynical and opportunistic.

    I don't think there's something deep beneath the surface here. Just classic shock tactics to galvanize its victimhood core and use outraged men as viral vehicles. This took little intelligence, just some visual design and lines parroted from a thousand other places.

    Other subtexts:

    * "We're coming for your kids, and we're gonna puppeteer them"- Major kneejerk response, esp from dads who fear losing a grip on their parenting and not being loved/respected by their kids. .

    * "You are an idiot, and everything you think is feminine is a societal construct and smokeshow for idiotic misogynists like you". That's both a lie and condescending. And people don't like being lied and condescended to.

    * Bunch of buzzwords, rape, pay inequality, etc which trigger guilt instinct- "Huh, did I actually do that? what does this have to do with me?"

    Will they sell more T-shirts? Maybe. But it's a pyrrhic victory.

    The truth is most men aren't the enemy. At worst they're indifferent. And it does them no favors to carpet bomb an entire gender with their marketing. Feminism needs goodwill to succeed (though frankly I'm not sure what they're trying to accomplish anymore).

    The feminists made a big marketing mistake when they tried to implicate every man in some kind of original sin, and that's where the pushback is coming from. Ironically, the tactics they're resorting to are going to push even open minded people to the other extreme. The "refund" effect, if you will.
    Signature
    Marketing for ACTION & REACTION.
    Roll Out "The Cannon"
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9619801].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author angiecolee
      Originally Posted by jjosephs View Post

      Personally, hate it. Everything about it is cynical and opportunistic.

      I don't think there's something deep beneath the surface here. Just classic shock tactics to galvanize its victimhood core and use outraged men as viral vehicles. This took little intelligence, just some visual design and lines parroted from a thousand other places.

      Other subtexts:

      * "We're coming for your kids, and we're gonna puppeteer them"- Major kneejerk response, esp from dads who fear losing a grip on their parenting and not being loved/respected by their kids. .

      * "You are an idiot, and everything you think is feminine is a societal construct and smokeshow for idiotic misogynists like you". That's both a lie and condescending. And people don't like being lied and condescended to.

      * Bunch of buzzwords, rape, pay inequality, etc which trigger guilt instinct- "Huh, did I actually do that? what does this have to do with me?"

      Will they sell more T-shirts? Maybe. But it's a pyrrhic victory.

      The truth is most men aren't the enemy. At worst they're indifferent. And it does them no favors to carpet bomb an entire gender with their marketing. Feminism needs goodwill to succeed (though frankly I'm not sure what they're trying to accomplish anymore).

      The feminists made a big marketing mistake when they tried to implicate every man in some kind of original sin, and that's where the pushback is coming from. Ironically, the tactics they're resorting to are going to push even open minded people to the other extreme. The "refund" effect, if you will.
      Interestingly enough, not all feminists feel the way you've implied. I think there's a lot of mud-slinging on both sides.Plus, I've noticed two arguments. No science here, just observation: men who disagree with the messaging tend to come down on feminist propaganda, and women who disagree tend to come down on the swearing.

      I think it was a pattern interrupt in the sense that it took two things that don't belong together and stitched them together in a way that made people pay attention.

      But I do agree that it was a little overdone - I mean, when the point is missed, then there's something wrong with the message.

      But then again, it's a for-profit company, not a non-profit "awareness raising" group.
      Signature

      Aspiring copywriters: if you need 1:1 advice from an experienced copy chief, head over to my Phone a Friend page.

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9619882].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Alex Cohen
        In days gone by, the discussion was about men who swore around women... was it okay or were they being low class?

        Now days the question is - is it okay for women to swear or not?

        The times they are a-changing!

        Alex
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9620163].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Memetics
      Originally Posted by jjosephs View Post

      The feminists made a big marketing mistake when they tried to implicate every man in some kind of original sin, and that's where the pushback is coming from. Ironically, the tactics they're resorting to are going to push even open minded people to the other extreme. The "refund" effect, if you will.
      Indeed. I'm not sure what the creators hoped to achieve with this. If you're looking to change another persons belief then it's far better to find common ground with them first, and move from there. Challenging beliefs head on is a definite no.

      The brain defends it's beliefs in proportion to how violently they're challenged. The more violent the challenge (this video) the stronger the defense (the "Backfire effect").

      Like jjosephs says they "are going to push even open minded people to the other extreme".

      A far better approach would have been to link their concerns [rape, pay inequality etc] to the women in their viewers lives, like their Mom, wife, daughters etc and run with that.

      Will it sell more Tshirts? Maybe. Will it achieve anything else? Nothing beneficial.
      Signature

      First we believe.....then we consider.

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9621123].message }}
    • Originally Posted by jjosephs View Post

      I don't think there's something deep beneath the surface here. Just classic shock tactics to galvanize its victimhood core and use outraged men as viral vehicles.
      When you said that I immediately thought thought of the trailer for Hatred, the videogame. This is probably the most cynical attempt to get word of mouth by sheer outrage/shock value I've ever seen. I don't think the little girls saying '****' is anywhere near the same level, but from a strategic point of view, it's the same idea; piss a ton of people off, get them sharing it on social media, etc.

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9623007].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author IDoTheLegWork
    I think it misses the underlying premise of the polarization
    of people who care or don't about cursing. The people who
    put importance on "proper" language have a visceral
    response to cursing. They are the real target audience of
    this piece and they'll just stop listening and the message
    is lost.

    For those who do not place the same importance on language
    the message loses impact. There's no shock value and they,
    most likely, already feel the issue of gender inequality is more
    important.
    Signature

    ..and you WILL contribute a verse.
    Indifference is the enemy that must be conquered.
    Appeal to the crowd by addressing the person.

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9619806].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      Tacky is as tacky does....and tacky won in that video.
      Signature
      Saving one dog will not change the world - but the world changes forever for that one dog
      ***
      Sometimes I just want someone to hug me and say...
      "It's going to be OK - here's a horse and two million dollars."
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9619817].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author pewpewpewmonkeys
    Personally, hate it. Everything about it is cynical and opportunistic.
    This.

    I love pushing the line when it comes to boundaries. So seeing girls cuss in a video doesn't bother me. But it's not the cussing that's a turn off, it's the overall attitude/way of talking throughout the video. I felt like I was in line at walmart. It's not the polarization of people that forced the message to be lost, it was the content and delivery.

    Exploiting women = bad
    Exploiting children = good?

    men who disagree with the messaging tend to come down on feminist propaganda, and women who disagree tend to come down on the swearing.
    Because the propaganda is mostly BS and focuses on being destructive to men rather than empowering to women. The group being attacked will be defensive. And if women understood how the video is damaging to them as well then they would be upset about the propaganda too. But that requires more than 1 step in the thinking process and, yeah... facebook. Then again, I'm just a walking rape machine because I've never been taught not to be so, so I might be wrong here.

    Signature
    Some cause-oriented hackers recently hacked one of my websites. So I researched what they're about and then donated a large sum of money to the entity they hate the most.

    The next time they hack one of my websites I'm going to donate DOUBLE.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9620395].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author RickDuris
      Originally Posted by pewpewpewmonkeys View Post

      Exploiting women = bad
      Exploiting children = good?
      That's actually pretty insightful.

      The meta-strategy at play is the end justifies the means. Sure, the producers lied... sure they exploited... sure they created false dilemmas to prove their point, but none of that matters, does it?

      Because the end was achieved. And that's all that matters.

      As a marketing piece, I'll bet they've sold a ton of t-shirts.

      Think about it. To their target audience, they're pressing the right buttons emotionally. Those emotions were hijacked to drive home their point.

      It's a perfect piece of propaganda. It's fresh, edgey, entertaining, in your face.

      But let me ask you a question. Didn't those girls seem just a little bit "bossy" to you? I wonder why that word wasn't included.

      - Rick Duris
      Signature
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9621259].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author The Copy Nazi
    Banned
    Interesting... or maybe appalling thing is... these Tees are sold by a FOR PROFIT company... who promise to donate a percentage of sales to charity. The same company FCKH8 made a profit off Ferguson by selling Ferguson t-shirts. Now they're profiting off feminism. Who wants to bet on their next target? Homosexuality? Trans-sexuality? Ebola? Oh yeah - gotta be Ebola.
    The shirts and sweatshirts in FCKH8's "Ant-Sexism" collection range in price from $14.99 to $36.99 and $5.00 of each purchase will go toward "kick-ass charities" that have yet to be determined. Luke Montgomery, a spokesperson from FCKH8, tells Mashable that customers will vote on a list of charities narrowed down from Facebook suggestions on Nov. 30. Montgomery says that FCKH8 has sold more than 200,000 t-shirts since opening in 2010.
    It's f*cked-up, man.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9621424].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Alex Cohen
      Originally Posted by The Copy Nazi View Post

      Interesting... or maybe appalling thing is... these Tees are sold by a FOR PROFIT company... who promise to donate a percentage of sales to charity. The same company FCKH8 made a profit off Ferguson by selling Ferguson t-shirts. Now they're profiting off feminism. Who wants to bet on their next target? Homosexuality? Trans-sexuality? Ebola? Oh yeah - gotta be Ebola.

      It's f*cked-up, man.
      Combine capitalism with free speech and that's what you get. And I dare say, 90% of us Americans like it that way. It's a heck of a lot better than the government telling us what we can and cannot say.

      Alex
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9621699].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author The Copy Nazi
        Banned
        Originally Posted by Alex Cohen View Post

        Combine capitalism with free speech and that's what you get. And I dare say, 90% of us Americans like it that way. It's a heck of a lot better than the government telling us what we can and cannot say.

        Alex
        Doesn't really bother me. I should have put the last line in italics - I was channeling "The Dude". It's a pretty tacky spot though. I agree with this sentiment expressed on Facebook -
        These are children. They, more than likely, don't fully comprehend what they're being told to say here. Using children to push a political agenda is one of the quickest ways to lose my respect, "f-word" or not. Let children be children, don't use them as props.
        You got to admit the girls did a good job though. It didn't need the boy or the women at the end.
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9621732].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Andrew Gould
      Originally Posted by The Copy Nazi View Post

      Oh yeah - gotta be Ebola.
      Yep.
      Signature

      Andrew Gould

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9623627].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author gjabiz
        I was a sailor. A submarine sailor. And the (*(&(& idea that we $&R%&*^ like a FK&%^&%%

        g*^&^* mother (*^&*^*&(_$$# is absurd.

        You have given us EW%^&%&^ sailors a no good ^%$#%^ER Co^%$^^% bad rap.

        We fk&%&%Tc resent it.

        Now, everyone, a chorus of the Village People...

        In the navy, you can ^&$^%&

        In the navy, you can %^$^%

        gjabiz

        PS. True story. In the 9th grade, Miss T., my favorite teacher, heard me turning the sky blue from the basketball court at lunch time. She called me over, put her arm around me and said how disappointed she was, she thought I was more intelligent than that.

        She told me there may be times when that is appropriate, but, in the major course of life, it just eliminates any doubt someone might have about you.

        Even with 4 years, two days, 13 hours and 7.5 minutes in the USN, I hardly ever dropped the F-bomb. Just recently I severed a business relationship because the guy talked like that, and it was enough for me to not to want to work with him.

        I like to think, that even we sailors can find ways and words to express ourselves, and truthfully, the shock value of language has worn out for some of us. Shock me with truth, awe me with facts, and I'll be more sympathetic or a buyer of your products or causes.
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9623733].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Cool Hand Luke
    I mean... from a marketing standpoint I'm sure it's working well.

    From an ethical standpoint, it seems a little screwed up to have children swearing all in an effort to sell shirts.

    From a truthfulness standpoint, it's beyond f*cked up, considering all of the things the campaign is supposedly rallying for (the supposed wage gap between men and women chief among them) are complete myths that have been repeatedly disproved by economists.

    But hey, if they can get idiots to but t-shirts based on made up statistics and overly dramatized causes, I guess that's... good for them?
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9621750].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author angiecolee
    Well technically speaking just about every advertiser or marketer out there uses the stats that support their cause. Depending on how you look at the research, everything has been both proven and disproven several times over.

    It seems the biggest issue is that they're claiming to be about feminism (or any other causes for that matter) while they're really about selling shirts. After that, it's the facts and how the facts were presented.

    I'm noticing an interesting trend and I'm curious as to whether it will hold true here too.

    By and large, parents tend to be most disgusted with the language/presentation. Not a scientific measurement by any stretch of the imagination. Just the reactions I've observed in my own circles.

    As far as exploiting children is concerned, I think that argument can be made of just about any company that uses children to sell. I'm curious as to why THIS exploitation has so many all up in arms. Just language? Feminist propaganda? Both?

    Thanks all for participating I love intellectual discussions about controversial topics.

    I should add for clarity's sake: unmarried with no kids. I consider myself a gender quality activist/feminist. I wasn't bothered by this and was in fact highly amused. But then again, I swear a lot (maybe not so much as these girls though). I also wasn't moved to buy a t-shirt, despite the amusement. And I think the main message is very unclear. Definitely could have been done better.
    Signature

    Aspiring copywriters: if you need 1:1 advice from an experienced copy chief, head over to my Phone a Friend page.

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9621944].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author TracyBelshee
      Originally Posted by angiecolee View Post


      I'm noticing an interesting trend and I'm curious as to whether it will hold true here too.

      By and large, parents tend to be most disgusted with the language/presentation. Not a scientific measurement by any stretch of the imagination. Just the reactions I've observed in my own circles.
      Well, I'm a parent and don't like the ad so maybe you have something there.

      Personally, I'd prefer to have my kids follow pewpewpewmonkey's version of the ad and learn to protect themselves.

      And linking (potential) unequal pay to rape? A bit much in my opinion.

      Honestly, I'm not sure I'm more offended by the kids using the language then I am by the way they mixed the message. I think they definitely messed this one up (from a message standpoint, not a money making standpoint).
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9622310].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Koll
    I think anytime kids are used to voice support (or just appear to support) a religious or political view there is push back. It's makes people uncomfortable. There is a sense that adults have taken advantage of their innocents and made them say things they may later regret. It's a visceral reaction. The word "exploitation" is used to convey that discomfort.

    Advertising Bucks Super Pizza has the best pizza EVER is fine. Kids like pizza. It's "cute" and "quirky." Nothing to be uncomfortable about.

    So the difference is not really the situation, kids used to push/sell an idea, it's how that idea makes the audience feel.

    Pizza: Non-threatening.
    Teach men not to rape: Threatening

    That's my take.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9622282].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author pewpewpewmonkeys
    Because the end was achieved. And that's all that matters. As a marketing piece, I'll bet they've sold a ton of t-shirts.
    Don't most die-hard feminists usually get offended at being called "girl" instead of "woman"? (See tshirt)

    But let me ask you a question. Didn't those girls seem just a little bit "bossy" to you? I wonder why that word wasn't included.
    "Bossy" is the wrong word because it gives a negative tone. I think you're looking for "leadership exuberation."
    Signature
    Some cause-oriented hackers recently hacked one of my websites. So I researched what they're about and then donated a large sum of money to the entity they hate the most.

    The next time they hack one of my websites I'm going to donate DOUBLE.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9622557].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Raydal
    DISCLAIMER: I didn't watch the video, neither here nor on the FB discussion.

    I was born and educated where you can get jail time for using the F-word, so you
    can understand my sensitivity to reading or hearing it.

    BUT any marketer who has to go to such extreme to get attention shows that he
    lacks creativity. It's like running naked across the football field at the Super Bowl
    rather than creating an effective Super Bowl ad. One is easy and the other takes brain.

    -Ray Edwards
    Signature
    The most powerful and concentrated copywriting training online today bar none! Autoresponder Writing Email SECRETS
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9623225].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author ewenmack
      It's figuratively 'throwing rocks' at the enemy of the message believers.

      Anytime you do that then you have won the heart and mind
      of the hard core believers.

      If the message ruffles a few feathers then it won't sit so well
      with the partial and non believers.

      I'm sure there is a section in society that
      are encouraged enough by the video and go
      buy the t-shirt.

      Best,
      Doctor E. Vile
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9623408].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author losttraveler
    I like it. Are there hardly any women in this section of the forum?

    It's funny how people are upset about this selling t-shirts but the princess dresses and makeup those kids are wearing seem completely legit apparently.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9652050].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author joe golfer
    They ripped off Pearl!

    Signature
    Marketing is not a battle of products. It is a battle of perceptions.
    - Jack Trout
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9652500].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author sethczerepak
    Originally Posted by angiecolee View Post

    I went ahead and stirred up a ton of shit in the FB cult.

    For those who aren't members, thought I'd get some additional perspective.

    F-bombs selling feminist t-shirts

    The level of offense is very interesting. I saw a pattern interrupt and a blatant marketing tactic. Many others were SUPER quick to take sides. And most of the convo is about feminazis and little girls swearing and behaving like brats.

    In other words, the message was lost.

    Like it? Hate it? Think it could be improved?
    My fiance and I were just talking about this topic.

    Honestly, this thread just about lost me at "princesses." Pop culture teaching little girls that they're all little princesses and that, because of that, they'll find this amazing prince charming of a man who will sweep them off their feet and worship the ground they walk on, give them everything thing they demand and even pee sitting down if she nags him hard enough about leaving the toilet seat up.

    Then, they grow up and find that no man can stand to even date them for longer than 3 months. No matter how hot they are or how many accessories they have. Adding this masculine edge will only take away any last shred of feminine appeal. Maybe, in 2045, they can all marry each other and have test tube babies.

    They'll still have to hire someone to kill the spiders.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9653597].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author angiecolee
    I never dreamed of being a princess and having a prince rescue me when I was a little girl.

    And my dear southern mama never let me think I was one either.

    But then again, my idea of a fun time was always climbing trees and making mud pies. It wasn't until Merida from Brave that I felt there was a Disney princess like me.
    Signature

    Aspiring copywriters: if you need 1:1 advice from an experienced copy chief, head over to my Phone a Friend page.

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9653724].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author splitTest
    This topic was on one of the tv talk shows today. Even had one of the little girls there being interviewed -- the main one dropping the f-bomb, I think. She seemed a little clueless, like she was parroting what the grownups taught her to say.

    Anyway -- guess what I learned? The ad was written by a guy! Not that it matters (...or does it)?

    Hmm....
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9653754].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author angiecolee
      Originally Posted by splitTest View Post

      This topic was on one of the tv talk shows today. Even had one of the little girls there being interviewed -- the main one dropping the f-bomb, I think. She seemed a little clueless, like she was parroting what the grownups taught her to say.

      Anyway -- guess what I learned? The ad was written by a guy! Not that it matters (...or does it)?

      Hmm....
      I think that's in part because men in general tend to swear a little more. Ask me how I know! (hint: it's because I get told like 20 times a day that I'm not very ladylike)

      And also, a lot of the aspiring female writers out there don't toss out f-bombs like Troy Duffy did in Boondock Saints. Yes Rocco, it is a very diverse word.

      So they're trying to break stereotypes by adhering to stereotypes in a sense, which is also interesting.

      And Joe, you're right! The first time I saw this I thought of "Where's my damn rent?" and was like...this ain't exactly new. Maybe it's just because they're talking about something more controversial and Will Ferrell's version was more for comedic purposes.
      Signature

      Aspiring copywriters: if you need 1:1 advice from an experienced copy chief, head over to my Phone a Friend page.

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9653844].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author socialentry
    Gheeeeeeeeeeeeetttt-ooooooooooooo
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9654545].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author power88
    This is so stupid. In business, ie in our marketing, good taste should always prevail. Male or female. It makes absolutely no difference. In my personal life, and on occasion on Facebook, I do talk like a sailor. If people don't like it, that can delete me. I couldn't care less. But in my marketing and in my business communications, I use common sense and good taste. What other people do is there business. I don't care. But, I won't buy from someone who writes emails to "Hey Susanna" or "Hey" or some other stupid greeting. Bad enough they use my first name when they don't even know me and they're probably eighteen if they're a day.
    Signature

    http://www.susannahutcheson.com
    http://www.copythatconverts.com
    http://www.powerwriting.com

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9655083].message }}

Trending Topics