Good and affordable SEO copywriter?

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13 years ago

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13 years ago

Originally Posted by WordPro

Surely, if one can include the requested keyword / long tailed keyword without it having any dramatic negative effect on the sales copy or conversion rate, then my question is - why not?

Does the copy have to be inferior as a result?

Personally I find that supposition rather daft, no offense Brian.

Let me try and be more clear about it and I think you'll find we disagree less than you realize.

Chances are very good that a well written sales letter is by its very nature already quite rich in primary keywords as well as a variety of other important LSI keywords.

Titling the page properly, setting a good meta-description, img alt tags, etc... all of the basic on page SEO 101 stuff really is quite adequate for a sales letter.

Focusing on OFF-page SEO is going to be the real play for results in the SERPS. Think feeder sites, youtube videos, articles, blog posts, press releases and web 2.0 pages - all of which can be optimized with laser-like focus for specific keywords and search phrases.

A sales letter's ONLY purpose is to get the people on that page now, to BUY NOW. Anything that is not in direct service to that goal is a DISTRACTION from it.

Just because one CAN kw stuff a sales letter cleverly or non-obviously doesn't mean that it's serving the larger goal well.

Getting away with it ain't the goal.

Sell the hell out of it, that's the goal.

Think of it this way, say I'm making a sales presentation to YOU, one on one on the showroom floor... it does not help my purpose to try and attract other's attention while I'm trying to close you, does it?

But let's say I have four "fronters" working for me. 2 stand outside and bally traffic in to see me, and 2 are inside the showroom ready to qualify and warm up the prospect before they sit down at my desk with me.

Sure, I could just PITCH REALLY LOUD or have a huge trade show exhibit behind my desk... somebody walking by might overhear what I'm saying or see something that interested them and walk over to listen in...

Which makes more sense for CLOSING DEALS?

Your sales letter is the most valuable virtual real estate you own and should be treated as such. There's a thousand ways to attract SEO traffic, why conflate the two?

Brian

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Brian McLeod

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zoobie

13 years ago

Brian the point is I want to optimize for Yahoo as well. I can easily optimize in Google for just getting inbound links which my site is already top for some keywords in Google. But Yahoo plays a different rule. They looks at aspect like keyword density and also other on page factors. So why I need a copywriter who can put the primary keywords on..
and maintain the flow..

I know there are plenty in freelance sites but just want to know if there is any at the warrior..

Thanks anyway.

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MikeHumphreys

13 years ago

Originally Posted by zoobie

Brian the point is I want to optimize for Yahoo as well. I can easily optimize in Google for just getting inbound links which my site is already top for some keywords in Google. But Yahoo plays a different rule. They looks at aspect like keyword density and also other on page factors.

I'd suggest creating different landing pages optimized for different search engines. Or use different domain names.

Your salesletter needs to focus on one thing only: trying to ethically make the sale. Anything else is secondary or can be achieved by other means.

Hope that helps,

Mike

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Scott Murdaugh

13 years ago

DP post in the services section

Definitely check out DP... That's where the top direct response writers in the industry hang out on a daily bases...

On a serious note... The page is designed to sell, beyond the basics keywords stuffing, things like that detract from making the sale, and that hurts conversions.

There are other ways to worry about SEO and get traffic to the sales letter.

-Scott

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Star Riley

13 years ago

What a discussion. coooool.

Here is my penny on this based on watching Sponge-Bob a lot more than I should.

Lets say you did keyword research and your domain name by default relates to your product/service and is the keyword or at least related to the keyword.

Would it not stand that the product is related to the keyword. If the product or service is popular or a niche wouldn't the best step be "long tail" again by default of proper SEO and marketing.

Lets say its Dog Training you would have what dogtrainingsoftware.com, dogtrainingbook.com, dogtrainingservice.com etc.

The object of the sales page would be to communicate the problems/pain not having the software,service or book creates and or is currently being experienced and the solution the software/service/book presents.

Sponge Bob would try to stuff keywords if he was told that he would get a certain result stuffing way too much to accomplish a goal. At the end of the day Patrick would accidentally save the day by creating a natural communication to the target market and indirectly eliminate keyword stuffing as any natural conversation would be more lsi keywording than focused stuffing.

For me driving traffic from search engines happen despite the fact that I've evolved in the years to speak to people and not the serp overlords unless in there ruthlessly effective way they have trained me to do so without me knowing mmmm.

Great copy speaks to the people seo keywords are just a side dish and far from the main course of a sales page, not impossible to stomach especially if the keywords embellish the meal.

Hope the product or service on your sales-page is one of those that lend itself to a natural conversation that includes accenting keywords.

Gotta go Sponge-Bob is back on ;-)

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13 years ago

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Kevin Lam

13 years ago

Originally Posted by WordPro

Personally, I just don't see what the big deal is, why anyone would have such a problem with that.

I have no problem in including keywords into a sales letter, but I don't want it to be the PRIMARY FOCUS. In fact, I make it a RULE to do keyword research and analysis. This allows me to know what my client's customers and buyers are looking for in a product. This helps me write a more powerful sales letter. However, it doesn't mean I chime in on every single keyword phrase because the keyword phrase might not make sense.

Being able to do the research myself, I can analyze it and act accordingly, but my client isn't responsible for conversion - it's me. So if they want to include the keyword phrases without my suggestions, then there's no point in hiring me. It all depends, but as the copywriter, we know what sells and what doesn't.

I actually had to have one of those talks with a client because the story wasn't EXACTLY how it was. "Let me do my job", I told him. He listened. In the end, he said "Wow! That's exactly how I saw it in my head!". He told me not to use that as a testimonial as he will write a much better one. So act accordingly guys. I just know SEO is not at the top of my list of priorities when I write copy.

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13 years ago

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13 years ago

Originally Posted by WordPro

Kevin Exactly. Nail. Head.

(???) Are we speaking the same language and reading the same thread?

Originally Posted by WordPro

And goodness knows what that Yahoo comment was Brian, whatever you were meaning by that, I don't know, that just flew straight off over the the top of my head.

Where does Yahoo fit in to the equation? I'm sorry, you just lost me completely.

???

Here's what the OP said... specifically.

Originally Posted by Zoobie

Brian the point is I want to optimize for Yahoo as well. I can easily optimize in Google for just getting inbound links which my site is already top for some keywords in Google. But Yahoo plays a different rule. They looks at aspect like keyword density and also other on page factors. So why I need a copywriter who can put the primary keywords on..
and maintain the flow..

Mark, I think maybe you were so busy arguing your point of view and tilting at the windmill you forgot that this was actually somebody else's thread (again).

Perhaps a bit daft, but forgivable.

Best,

Brian

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Brian McLeod

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13 years ago

I'm not nearly as invested in this topic as you've imagined I am, Mark. Honest...

When a client pays thousands of dollars for a sales letter optimal keyword density for Yahoo is NOT part of the equation.

Promise.

Best,

Brian

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Brian McLeod

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Kevin Lam

13 years ago

Yahoo? Optimize for Yahoo? Someone check his pulse, 'cause he's not conscious.

Look, if you optimize for Google, you're pretty much optimized for Yahoo! 98% of my search engine traffic is Google. Though it might not be the same for all sites and industries, but for the mere fact that Google dominates the search engine world with more than 63% of the performed searches world-wide, it's enough for me to say, "I don't care about Yahoo or the rest".

A sales letter shouldn't be optimized for a certain number of keyword density. If you want search engine traffic, you should be driving it through other means. Don't water down your sales letter because of this. Your sales letter has ONE PURPOSE - MAKE A FREAK'N SALE!

A regular website's purpose is to get leads - that's it! If your website and your sales letter are the same thing, you'd better split them up by registering another domain or you make the home page your landing page and your sales letter on another page.

Optimizing your sales letter for Yahoo! is like preparing for the aliens to come. They might come, but it also might be a long time from now. Who knows! It's inconclusive. Don't waste your time, money and effort. Let you sales letter do what it's suppose to do - sell! That's why it's call a sales letter. It's not a SEO letter.

Good luck with your decision though.

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David Raybould

13 years ago

Wordpro-

These guys are right.

Most well-researched salesletters are going
to show up for a bunch of keywords and LSI
terms anyway, just because of the content
of the letter.

And most of them have a ton of backlinks,
which also helps.

But adjusting the letter, even a little bit, to
include more/other keywords? That's a mistake.

Do you know why?

Because when you're writing copy, the sole focus
in your mind needs to be getting the reader closer
to the sale.

That's what you need to concentrate on.

If you start deviating from that mindset, the letter
will likely suffer as a result.

Sure, I'd like to say it wouldn't, but in all honesty,
I think it would suffer. And if conversions are
affected, even just a little bit, it's too much.

But I think it goes beyond that...

Do you want your clients to say:

"gee thanks I got 100 more search engine visitors
last month... and I made a couple of sales on launch
day" ?

Or would you rather they said:

"wow I made $50k on launch day, here's a check
for $10k, let me book you again..." ?

Obviously it's your call how you run your business...

Personally, I prefer to be known for high converting
salesletters.

-David Raybould

PS- Aside from that, Mike H's point is unassailable...
the salesletter is for getting sales. The other stuff
can be achieved by other means.

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colmodwyer

13 years ago

Kevin Exactly. Nail. Head.

Why is Kevin right but Brian's a fool? They're saying the same thing.

Anyway, fact is this... A copywriter's job is the sell, plain and simple. Any time spent on SEO is time wasted.

And no client (or copywriter) that knows what they are doing will ever use "SEO" and "sales page" in the same sentence. Unless to say something similar.

Colm

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13 years ago

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13 years ago

Originally Posted by WordPro

I am allowed to disagree with him on a minor point or two, as anyone has that perogative about someone else's posts or thoughts upon any matter, in conversation or upon a forum such as this one.

It's all good, Mark. I didn't think you were calling me a fool. And I have no trouble with challenging conventional thinking and debating it a little.

But there's really not much wiggle room on this one.

If the OP had asked how to increase conversions from his Yahoo traffic that might make more sense (not really) but to say that he's ranking high in G already, and now wants to rewrite his letter solely to STUFF the density for Yahoo...

...that's just not the smart way to go about it (kid gloves).

Best,

Brian

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