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How to copywrite for a NON IM Product?

by saxguru
10 replies
Hi everyone,

I've seen a lot of IM products that promise to make thousands of dollars in a few days etc, but I am not promising my customers this.

I teach people how to play the saxophone by a series of video lessons online. How should my copy differ? I don't want it to be too sleazy and push the really hard sell like some people do. I want to be honest with people and not tell them that they are going to instantly become the next Kenny G!

At the moment all I have is a simple outline of what my course contains on the homepage and that's about it. But as you can probably guess, the sales are pretty slow! I've already pushed quite a bit of money into this course so ideally i'm not looking to hire a pro copywriter for a lot of money. I've experiences low price copywriters too and it was awful!

So are there any tips you could share with me so that I can write my own copy that may actually convince people to take part in my course?

Thanks!
#copywrite #product
  • Profile picture of the author Raydal
    You may want to study this website: Piano Lessons - Play Piano By Ear
    The owner is a successful marketer and knows what he is doing.

    The real challenge I see with your program compared to learning
    to play the piano, guitar, violin etc. is the cost for entrance. Many
    people have a keyboard who don't know how to play but not
    many have a sax if they can't play. So your market will be
    smaller, I think.

    Also study competitors sites such as Learn How to Play the Saxophone

    -Ray Edwards
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  • Profile picture of the author Oziboomer
    I don't know so much about the copy but I'd think about removing the annoying social share buttons and remove the affiliate link where it takes you to the 75% commission page. You could suggest that affiliates visit your CB page to get the full details but I'd remove it as affiliate would find the offer inside CB if it fitted their audience.

    Also get the Video without ads.

    You need a good hook in the first 5 seconds of your video.

    I was struggling as a saxophonist but then I discovered how to play like this.

    !0 seconds of wicked solo.

    Now I'm in the studio cutting a track dreaming of what it would be like to back Santana

    You could test just a VSL where you played some awesome solo and just kept it short, pulled the sax out of your mouth and said. You'll be playing like that with my help. etc.

    It is weird because I have a training course on CB and have the same product available at a much higher price on several DVDs that I promote elsewhere with similar type sales page and the pages I promote convert really well but CB is somewhat ordinary.

    I have some feeder sites that send qualified traffic to CB sales page and although they convert I always do better with a similar offer using sales pages outside of CB.

    Some of that affiliate traffic is hard to convert.

    I would suggest running continuous split tests to see what converts best.

    Use something like Visual Website Optimizer or Optimizely to test.

    I know the effort that getting up a product up and done like yours takes so you've got to try multiple variations.

    You've got to build your own brand outside of CB so you can send better qualified traffic and don't be afraid of testing.

    Not sure that copy should be your primary focus. Change a few things and test, test more , test more.

    Good luck and don't give up on it.

    Offer some bonuses.... Bonus stack
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  • Profile picture of the author saxguru
    Thanks to all of you for the great advice!

    I will definitely talk to as many players I can and ask them WHY they picked up the sax and try to express these opinions to new visitors to my website.

    I will also be creating a video which will hopefully hook the visitor, rather than just showing one of my youtube cover songs...

    Again, thanks to everyone for the advice! I need to take it all in and try to come up with something good while I have some time this weekend!
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  • Profile picture of the author angiecolee
    Originally Posted by saxguru View Post

    Hi everyone,

    I've seen a lot of IM products that promise to make thousands of dollars in a few days etc, but I am not promising my customers this.

    I teach people how to play the saxophone by a series of video lessons online. How should my copy differ? I don't want it to be too sleazy and push the really hard sell like some people do. I want to be honest with people and not tell them that they are going to instantly become the next Kenny G!
    You're not a copywriter so it's OK not to know that music, IM, and MMO are different niches. Different niches require different strategy and vastly different copy depending on the market.

    Your market will not respond to MMO/IM hype. Ask me how I know this, fellow musician.

    Follow Ray's advice. Start looking into other musicians who are making money selling lessons and other products online. Model what works. Modify it with your own personal take. Get qualified traffic. Laugh all the way to the bank.
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    • Profile picture of the author saxguru
      Originally Posted by angiecolee View Post

      You're not a copywriter so it's OK not to know that music, IM, and MMO are different niches. Different niches require different strategy and vastly different copy depending on the market.

      Your market will not respond to MMO/IM hype. Ask me how I know this, fellow musician.

      Follow Ray's advice. Start looking into other musicians who are making money selling lessons and other products online. Model what works. Modify it with your own personal take. Get qualified traffic. Laugh all the way to the bank.
      Thanks for the advice

      I've talked to quite a lot of people now..I get the occasional similar response but apart from that, most people tend to have a really unique story about how and why they started playing. I think it's going to be difficult for me to engage with people because of this. In terms of age range, there is no limit too so the mentality of people and the way they think will differ if they are 18 for example compared to 55
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      • Profile picture of the author angiecolee
        Originally Posted by saxguru View Post

        Thanks for the advice

        I've talked to quite a lot of people now..I get the occasional similar response but apart from that, most people tend to have a really unique story about how and why they started playing. I think it's going to be difficult for me to engage with people because of this. In terms of age range, there is no limit too so the mentality of people and the way they think will differ if they are 18 for example compared to 55
        Yeah, but I'm willing to bet a lot of those unique stories have some things in common hidden just underneath the surface. That's the beauty of story telling and story selling - there are only so many stories to be told. What makes them different is the person who tells it/lives it.

        Take for instance:
        Castaway
        The Grey
        127 Hours
        The Edge
        Into the Wild

        Very different stories, one common thread: man vs. Nature.
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  • Profile picture of the author ajwalton99
    Go to clickbank and look up
    "Learn an instrument" products
    and then read all the sales letter.

    That should give you a pretty
    good idea of what should be
    in your letter.
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    • Profile picture of the author ZhaoAnXin
      I used to play saxaphone for about 12 years, so when I read this I started thinking about the reasons why I picked it up, and a good copywriter might be able to turn it into a good hook:

      When I was in elementary school, we all had to learn how to play the recorder - the little flute like instrument.

      I think a lot of people learn how to play one when they're young, and at least when I was in school it was very common for kids to be taught to play the recorder in school.

      When it came time to choose an instrument later, we had to try out different brass, woodwind and percussion instruments, and then we chose the one we were interested in, or the one our teacher suggested. I can't remember.

      It's been a lifetime ago, but I remember pretty clearly that I chose sax because the finger positions on the instruments are EXACTLY the same as on the recorder.

      So - if as I suspect, lots of people have learned to play recorder, you might appeal to that.

      Find out what the primary emotional drivers are (I suspect wanting to play romantic music to women, in the case of the male side of the market but don't know for sure), and add that after the hook.

      Something like: "If you ever learned how to play the recorder when you were a kid - you already know how to play the world's most romantic minuets..."

      I guess the idea of learning to play an instrument from scratch seems daunting to most people.

      I would include graphics that showed the note/finger positions on both in a side by side comparison, maybe close up videos of both playing the same song, or something like that...

      Then explain in the copy that the notes are exactly the same, only the flats/sharps and the embouchure are different, but that they have a head start on saxaphone and can easily and quickly by-pass the long, boring beginners stage and begin playing romantic (or whatever type of songs they're into) music within 1 week.

      I don't know if it would work or not, but that's my first idea as someone who has played saxaphone.

      It would be contingent upon:
      • finding out whether many people learn to play the recorder, as I suspect
      • finding out the most common demographic or during what years it was most widely taught
      • finding out what kind of music those people would most like to learn how to play (really who they want to impress)
      • figuring out how to get traffic based on a hook like that
      • getting someone who was a good copywriter to put something that would convert well together

      I have no idea if it would work or not, but just thought I'd chime in as someone who is/was a saxaphone player and mention that if someone can play the recorder they are well on their way to being able to play the saxaphone.
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      • Profile picture of the author saxguru
        Originally Posted by ZhaoAnXin View Post

        I used to play saxaphone for about 12 years, so when I read this I started thinking about the reasons why I picked it up, and a good copywriter might be able to turn it into a good hook:

        When I was in elementary school, we all had to learn how to play the recorder - the little flute like instrument.

        I think a lot of people learn how to play one when they're young, and at least when I was in school it was very common for kids to be taught to play the recorder in school.

        When it came time to choose an instrument later, we had to try out different brass, woodwind and percussion instruments, and then we chose the one we were interested in, or the one our teacher suggested. I can't remember.

        It's been a lifetime ago, but I remember pretty clearly that I chose sax because the finger positions on the instruments are EXACTLY the same as on the recorder.

        So - if as I suspect, lots of people have learned to play recorder, you might appeal to that.

        Find out what the primary emotional drivers are (I suspect wanting to play romantic music to women, in the case of the male side of the market but don't know for sure), and add that after the hook.

        Something like: "If you ever learned how to play the recorder when you were a kid - you already know how to play the world's most romantic minuets..."

        I guess the idea of learning to play an instrument from scratch seems daunting to most people.

        I would include graphics that showed the note/finger positions on both in a side by side comparison, maybe close up videos of both playing the same song, or something like that...

        Then explain in the copy that the notes are exactly the same, only the flats/sharps and the embouchure are different, but that they have a head start on saxaphone and can easily and quickly by-pass the long, boring beginners stage and begin playing romantic (or whatever type of songs they're into) music within 1 week.

        I don't know if it would work or not, but that's my first idea as someone who has played saxaphone.

        It would be contingent upon:
        • finding out whether many people learn to play the recorder, as I suspect
        • finding out the most common demographic or during what years it was most widely taught
        • finding out what kind of music those people would most like to learn how to play (really who they want to impress)
        • figuring out how to get traffic based on a hook like that
        • getting someone who was a good copywriter to put something that would convert well together

        I have no idea if it would work or not, but just thought I'd chime in as someone who is/was a saxaphone player and mention that if someone can play the recorder they are well on their way to being able to play the saxaphone.

        Great advice!

        Funnily enough I started with the recorder in school and then progressed onto the sax in quite an easy transition! I definitely agree with you on that one. I'll have to ask around and see how many people did the same as both of us and then take it from there

        Thanks
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        • Profile picture of the author ZhaoAnXin
          Originally Posted by saxguru View Post

          Great advice!

          Funnily enough I started with the recorder in school and then progressed onto the sax in quite an easy transition! I definitely agree with you on that one. I'll have to ask around and see how many people did the same as both of us and then take it from there

          Thanks
          Just to caveat this and the previous - I'm not a professional copywriter, and anything I've ever posted here has gotten torn to shreds by the folks who are, so take my suggestions with a grain of salt.

          That being said, I own a couple of real brick and mortar businesses that do pretty well. My school here in Burma ( https://www.facebook.com/fourelementsyangon ) charges $250 for 60 hours of classes. 1 class of 20 people grosses 5k and finishes in a month or two months. Each of my teachers do 4 classes per week, so very conservatively 10k/month per teacher minus 2k for salary. I always have to turn away business and my real constraint point is being able to hire good teachers. I do 6 hours of work a week myself and net more than alot of IM gurus claim (one of these days I ought to release a course about this) and don't pay taxes.

          And I played saxaphone for many years.

          That's all to say that you should talk to a real copywriter before investing any time in something like this, but that I'm not just some random dude writing articles or spamming backlinks chiming in on your question.

          Anyway -

          IMHO data on people who went from recorder to sax would be mostly irrelevant, because you're not trying to sell to people who play saxaphone. You're trying to sell to people who might want to, have always wanted to, can buy into the benefit you link to playing sax or are curious enough about the mystique of the saxaphone to buy your course.

          It might be useful for generating generic proof of concept on a hook like this, though. You don't have to get guys saying your course made them musical geniuses - just "I was forced by my 4th grade school teacher to play this stupid recorder-flute and never would have guessed in a million years that all those boring hours with that little plastic toy would help me learn to play sax in only 2 weeks and romance the woman of my dreams just before I proposed to her."

          You could survey people in a sax forum or something about it and probably generate lots of generic proof of your hook and people would automatically create a false complex equivalency between their experiences and your course without you doing anything unethical at all.

          If you did end up going that route I'd give you something like that, no prob. because that's exactly how I learned how to play the saxaphone, which allowed me to march in the Rose Bowl when I was a teenager, impress a lot of girls when I was younger, develop a life long love and appreciation of music I never would have been exposed to, etc.

          The data you need I think is just -
          1. Did/do many people learn to play the recorder?
          2. What emotional benefits could they buy into from playing saxaphone? What are the most common?
          3. Once you know why they would want to play sax, how can you target people who played a recorder for free or cheap?
          4. Can you do this process multiple times to come up with variations on your sales message appropriate to different ages/genders/interests?

          It could be a bum idea. I don't know.

          But I have a hunch that "You already know how to play the saxaphone - you just don't know you do yet - let me show you why and help you uncover the secret talent you never knew you had and play XYZ thing to knock the socks off of people ABC" or something thereabouts would probably work.

          Most people would like to be a musician if it didn't take much work. Most people want to have a talent. Everyone wants to impress other people.

          Ask someone who can write for internet audiences if that can be polished up, then if so - do the research and pay them to write/script it for you.

          If it's viable, then I think it's a totally legit way to position your course, it is honest and true and the message has integrity, and it would make your course seem more desirable, I think.

          Just my .02 . . .
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