Did Dan Kennedy do me justice here?

25 replies
Hi Warriors - I've been whacking away at honing my copy writing skills and one of the strategies I've been using is Dan Kennedy's "swipe and deploy". I would like my fellow warriors to please give me their thoughts on everything above the fold on my newest sales page. Of course, you're more than welcome to scroll down the page and tell me what you think of the body copy and sub heads too :-)

A link to a DK sales letter wound up in my inbox - I lifted much of the text from his headline and subheads for my own letter - twisting it of course to fit my product. Anyhow, without influencing your opinion, I wanted to get your feedback specifically on the following -

-The very top line - in one of his trainings DK talks about people want to belong to a group (for example: choosey moms choose Jiff) so that is why the opening line mentions "straight men" - good or no good?

- Is the top graphic too big? Taking up too much space?

- What do you think about having the price of my book right up there at the top? Should I make my readers go through the letter to see the price?

- Is it a bad idea to have an image of the book at the top? Maybe a photo of an attractive lady instead?

- Any other feedback you can give me on everything above the fold would be appreciated - of course with that being the most valuable real estate on a web sales page.

Thanks All!! Click here to have a look

- Dan
#copywriting #dan #headline #justice #kennedy #swipe and deploy
  • Profile picture of the author DABK
    This part stopped me cold:

    From: Mack Baxter
    Re: What Every Man Ought To Know About How To Attract Women On Dating Web Sites

    "Dating websites suck!"

    "The women who join dating sites are all snobby, stuck-up bit#@*s!!"

    "I'm a single dad - I'm 'damaged goods' - I'll never meet a decent woman online..."

    This is just some of the nonsense I hear frequently from men who are frustrated with the whole "online dating scene".

    If you can relate to dating site frustrations, you're not alone - most men "suck" at online dating!

    But I will tell you this: if you struggle to meet hot women on dating web sites IT'S NOT YOUR FAULT!

    By the time I got to it's not my fault, it was too late.



    Originally Posted by NyNyDanDan View Post

    Hi Warriors - I've been whacking away at honing my copy writing skills and one of the strategies I've been using is Dan Kennedy's "swipe and deploy". I would like my fellow warriors to please give me their thoughts on everything above the fold on my newest sales page. Of course, you're more than welcome to scroll down the page and tell me what you think of the body copy and sub heads too :-)

    A link to a DK sales letter wound up in my inbox - I lifted much of the text from his headline and subheads for my own letter - twisting it of course to fit my product. Anyhow, without influencing your opinion, I wanted to get your feedback specifically on the following -

    -The very top line - in one of his trainings DK talks about people want to belong to a group (for example: choosey moms choose Jiff) so that is why the opening line mentions "straight men" - good or no good?

    - Is the top graphic too big? Taking up too much space?

    - What do you think about having the price of my book right up there at the top? Should I make my readers go through the letter to see the price?

    - Is it a bad idea to have an image of the book at the top? Maybe a photo of an attractive lady instead?

    - Any other feedback you can give me on everything above the fold would be appreciated - of course with that being the most valuable real estate on a web sales page.

    Thanks All!! Click here to have a look

    - Dan
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  • Profile picture of the author Len Bailey
    -The very top line - in one of his trainings DK talks about people want to belong to a group (for example: choosey moms choose Jiff) so that is why the opening line mentions "straight men" - good or no good?
    I my experience, it rarely hurts to call out your target audience. Doing so might reduce the number of people who read your piece, but ensures those who do are, in fact, your prospects.

    As for your other questions... my suggestion is to test them.

    Do A/B split tests of the page with vs. without the price at the top... the book graphic vs. an attractive woman, etc. Make sure you only test one element at a time so you know exactly what impacted response. Although that said, I'd be very surprised if the copy didn't pull better without line at the end of your deck mentioning the special offer.

    I don't have time to read through your copy right now. But a couple suggestions:
    1. Short headlines usually outperform long ones. Shorter ones not only let you bump up the font size to grab attention, but are more easily read by the eye. Few things are harder on the eyes than a large block of unbroken text.

    2. Try to make each line of your headline break at a logical point. And for longer headlines, it can help to break them up using eyebrows (copy just above the headline) and mustaches (copy just below the headline). Also, switch up the colors to make the message easier to read.

    3. Don't capitalize every word. Articles like "a," "an" and "the" should only be capitalized if they're the first word in the sentence. Similarly, try putting your deck copy in "sentence" capitalization rather than capitalizing every word.
    For example, instead of this...

    "Get Proven, Sizzling Hot Strategies On How To Easily
    Attract Women On Any Dating Web Site...Watch As
    You Double And Even TRIPLE The Number Of Women
    You Connect With Every Week GUARANTEED...
    No Matter How Unsuccessful You May've
    Been In The Past!"
    (see below for proof of this claim...)

    It's Not Rocket Science! Your Days Of Struggling To Meet Even "Average
    Women" Are Finally Over - You Are About To Discover Simple Strategies And
    Proven Techniques To Attract, Flirt With And Meet More Women On Dating
    Web Sites Than You Ever Thought Possible.

    Best Part: There Is No "Guess Work" For You. Everything You Need To Know
    Is Laid Out In A Very Easy To Understand, And Even EASIER To Use,
    Way...Plus, See Below For A Very Limited Time Offer...
    Try something like this...

    Get Proven, Sizzling Hot Strategies on
    How to Easily Attract Women
    on Any Dating Web Site


    "Double and Even TRIPLE the Number of Women
    You Connect With Every Week GUARANTEED...
    No Matter How Unsuccessful You May
    Have Been In the Past!"

    It's NOT rocket science! Your days of struggling to meet even "average women"
    are finally over. Becaues these simple strategies and proven techniques will
    have you ATTRACTING... FLIRTING WITH... and MEETING more women on dating web sites than you ever thought possible.

    THE BEST PART: There's absolutely ZERO "guess work" involved. Everything
    you need to know is laid out in a very easy to understand -- and even EASIER
    to use -- step-by-step process! Get full details below... along with PROOF
    this system really works!
    That's all I have time for now, as I've got a client call coming up. But it should give you some ideas to work with.

    Hope this helps!
    Signature

    Len Bailey
    Copywriter/Consultant
    Feel free to connect on LinkedIn or Twitter

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  • Profile picture of the author NyNyDanDan
    Hey thanks Len - I love those suggestions on the headline! That's good stuff.

    Hey DABK - can you please elaborate? You stopped cold in a good way or bad? And what'd you mean by "By the time I got to it's not my fault, it was too late"? Thanks for your help guys!
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    • Profile picture of the author DABK
      In a bad way.

      Because I'm on a forum where I and other people ask and receive help, I read the copy to the end.

      It's not your fault should come earlier.

      The first part makes it sound like it's the reader's fault and it's too long.

      People buy hope.

      They don't read a long sales letter if they think there's no hope it will give them something useful.

      "It's NOT rocket science! "
      If it's not rocket science why don't I (your target audience member) get it? Why do most men suck at it?

      You have to point out it's not rocket science, but you have to give a reason as to why I don't get it that absolves me of being stupid.

      Something like, It's not rocket science but most men miss one little ingredient or don't use it consistently because they don't think it's important.

      Originally Posted by NyNyDanDan View Post

      Hey thanks Len - I love those suggestions on the headline! That's good stuff.

      Hey DABK - can you please elaborate? You stopped cold in a good way or bad? And what'd you mean by "By the time I got to it's not my fault, it was too late"? Thanks for your help guys!
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  • Profile picture of the author NyNyDanDan
    Hey Len - I took your suggestions and ran with them. I also shaved off about 40 pixels from the height of the header image in order to get back some of that above the fold real estate for the copy. Anyhow, if you wouldn't mind go have another look. I think it looks and reads much better now, thanks again!
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  • Profile picture of the author Len Bailey
    Hey DABK - can you please elaborate? You stopped cold in a good way or bad? And what'd you mean by "By the time I got to it's not my fault, it was too late"? Thanks for your help guys!
    It's a bad thing. Every prospect that stops reading is a lost sale. And more than one lost sale if you factor in word-of-mouth referrals.

    Hey thanks Len - I love those suggestions on the headline! That's good stuff.
    You're welcome. Glad I could help.

    Hey Len - I took your suggestions and ran with them. I also shaved off about 40 pixels from the height of the header image in order to get back some of that above the fold real estate for the copy. Anyhow, if you wouldn't mind go have another look. I think it looks and reads much better now, thanks again!
    Better. I'd reduce the space between the mustache ("Get Proven, Sizzling Hot Strategies on") and the headline. I'd also break the headline into two lines, so the first line reads: "How to Attract Women" and bump up the font size -- make it as big as you can without wrapping or looking disproportionate to the deck.
    Signature

    Len Bailey
    Copywriter/Consultant
    Feel free to connect on LinkedIn or Twitter

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    • Profile picture of the author Cam Connor
      The headline is the most important piece, and yours is quite bland... I wouldn't expect a high conversion rate with that headline.

      Also, Kennedy doesn't have to do you justice, it's up to you to do HIM justice.
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  • Profile picture of the author NyNyDanDan
    Thanks Cam - I wrote my post title that way to draw attention ;-) I figured it might pull in more warriors to read my post. Care to make a suggestion on what you would do to spice up the headline?

    Here is the link to the DK letter I used to write my own.
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    • Profile picture of the author ewenmack
      Dan, to be the most use to you, there needs
      to be a strong understanding what your readers
      know, believe, past experiences and what they
      have been told by other marketers...first.

      Plopping down a swipe and deploy without that
      understanding is bit like a bar without beer.

      Give you an example...

      When a training came out for The Secret
      it what many would call successful.

      Using the same logic of swipe and deploy
      into the Spanish market proved a failure.

      The Spanish beliefs around The Secret main premise
      did not match it.

      So back to your online dating for men,
      let's see a list what you know about
      your readers so we can craft a message
      that matches their state of mind.

      Best,
      Doctor E. Vile
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    • Profile picture of the author Cam Connor
      Originally Posted by NyNyDanDan View Post

      Thanks Cam - I wrote my post title that way to draw attention ;-) I figured it might pull in more warriors to read my post. Care to make a suggestion on what you would do to spice up the headline?

      Here is the link to the DK letter I used to write my own.
      What if getting laid off the internet was easier than getting fast food through the drive-through?
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  • Profile picture of the author maximus242
    I think you are getting the benefits right, your talking about what your prospects want more or less, I think what you need is more proof. Nobody buys without belief, and your proof sucks b*lls.
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  • Profile picture of the author NyNyDanDan
    So back to your online dating for men,
    let's see a list what you know about
    your readers so we can craft a message
    that matches their state of mind.
    Gleaning info on this market is actually pretty easy. There are tons of videos on YT from both men and women discussing many facets of online dating. All you need to do is read the comments that guys are leaving and you can learn all you need to know about the male mindset with respect to meeting women online. Also, your point about the English-Spanish transition is a good one. That is why I concentrate on the Caucasian male - dating for the black male for example or the Hispanic male is quite a bit different. And single dads for example use a different sort of language - these men are concerned they appear as 'damaged goods', they talk about shared custody, getting back into the dating scene and can sound very bitter toward their ex and females in general

    Nobody buys without belief, and your proof sucks b*lls.
    What more proof could you suggest? All of the proof I do offer is legit - nothing on my sales page is made up or photo shopped. That one image actually is my inbox with 41 messages from women in only a week's time, the testimonials and other 'proof' are all real.

    What if getting laid off the internet was easier than getting fast food through the drive-through?
    If that's what a guy wants - to get laid - my strategies will help him get there. If he wants a girlfriend, an activity partner or to find his soulmate - whatever - he can have her; it all starts with attraction though. Once a guy knows how to attract women on a dating site he can then turn that attraction into what he is looking for.

    Thank you everyone for all your feedback and criticisms - I'm finding this all very helpful :-)
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    • Profile picture of the author Cam Connor
      Originally Posted by NyNyDanDan View Post

      If that's what a guy wants - to get laid - my strategies will help him get there. If he wants a girlfriend, an activity partner or to find his soulmate - whatever - he can have her; it all starts with attraction though. Once a guy knows how to attract women on a dating site he can then turn that attraction into what he is looking for.
      Are you suggesting the headline isn't relevant enough to your niche? I'm familiar with the dating niche, and I assure you most of those guys just want to get laid. Anyways, I came up with that headline in 2 seconds off the cuff, so it may not be ideal, but it'll still convert better than what you have there now, I'd suggest you split-test it.
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  • Profile picture of the author kk075
    I've worked a lot in the dating niche with many of the more reputable names and the copy just felt bland to me...there was nothing unique about it to differentiate you from the thousands of others who wrote a book. The price point is also ridiculously low for expert pickup tips so I think that works against you as well.

    I highly recommend you listed to Neil Strauss's "The Game" in audio format to get to know your ideal consumer and why they have dating problems. Then, write copy that speaks to them personally, price your book at $59.95 and it will sell.

    Then again, it should sell at any price because this is a desperate niche that will buy anything....IF you're reaching your target audience. But I know for a fact that many of the pros in this segment have 7 and 8 figure launches in their first week alone, so you're likely missing out by being generic.
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    • Profile picture of the author Tim R
      Originally Posted by kk075 View Post

      I highly recommend you listed to Neil Strauss's "The Game" in audio format to get to know your ideal consumer and why they have dating problems. Then, write copy that speaks to them personally, price your book at $59.95 and it will sell.
      It's not quite as easy as that.

      Originally Posted by kk075 View Post

      Then again, it should sell at any price because this is a desperate niche that will buy anything....IF you're reaching your target audience. But I know for a fact that many of the pros in this segment have 7 and 8 figure launches in their first week alone, so you're likely missing out by being generic.
      Actually, it's a niche that has heard it all and has a lot of options. There's a ton of competing products out there about online dating which are positioned far better than this. They're not just looking to buy any random product.

      You really think there are many people in this niche making 10 million + in one week?
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      • Profile picture of the author kk075
        Originally Posted by Tim R View Post

        It's not quite as easy as that.
        When you miss so completely in your ad copy, it is that easy.

        Originally Posted by Tim R View Post

        Actually, it's a niche that has heard it all and has a lot of options. There's a ton of competing products out there about online dating which are positioned far better than this. They're not just looking to buy any random product.

        You really think there are many people in this niche making 10 million + in one week?
        I didn't say that there were many, because ultimately there are just 3 companies representing hundreds of brands. But yes, they do make 10M+ in one week (on their better products) because of their lists and their copy. The beautiful thing, however, is that all three of these companies work together and back each other's products for each launch so they get massive saturation.
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  • Profile picture of the author Curtis2011
    The page needs some editing.

    First of all, fix the page design on the sides at the top where the border breaks. It looks unprofessional. This also happens at the bottom of the page where the border is missing.

    Second, the very top of the sales page is way too scatter-brained. What I mean is that there are too many visual elements competing for attention. The yellow text on blue background, vs the picture of the book, vs the price in yellow starburst, vs the white text on red background, vs the text at the very top of the page where people naturally start reading.

    All of these items are laid out intertwined and horizontally whereas they should be laid out vertically so that the reader's eye knows exactly where to go at each step of reading everything.

    Third, your headlines could be much stronger. Men do not just want to "attract and meet" women online, they want to GET LAID. So you need to put something about SEX into the headline.
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  • Profile picture of the author NyNyDanDan
    THANK YOU Cam, Curtis and DABK! All great suggestions you're giving me - and listen, as one relatively new to the IM game and web copywriting, you have no idea how appreciative I am that you're giving me these suggestions. In my current copy I'm trying to tell guys that online attraction is their gateway to finding what they want in meeting women whether it's a f**k buddy or casual sex, a meaningful girlfriend, a new activity partner...whatever. I've seen other products in this niche that make women sound like usable bimbos - such raunchy stuff as "you'll have her on her knees in front of you with your d**k in her mouth that same night!" I can't cross that line - I want to be successful in this niche but not to the detriment of my morals. Look, I'm no stud but I have personally gotten more one night stands and fun, meaningless sex from the internet than I can remember. I've also found terrific women I've had years long relationships with. I want guys to know that my strategies work to find what they want but I don't want it to be all about just getting laid - there's just something scummy about that. I'm trying to weave the get laid message into my copy but I don't want to make it ALL about that. Thanks again everyone for all your help and advice!
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    • Profile picture of the author Cam Connor
      Originally Posted by NyNyDanDan View Post

      I'm no stud but I have personally gotten more one night stands and fun, meaningless sex from the internet than I can remember.
      Honestly, that's a pretty good hook, I'd test it.
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  • Profile picture of the author NyNyDanDan
    LOL!! Thanks Cam :-) And here I just meant that as a peer to peer message of my thought process behind this project! I'll try it out - can anybody say 'serendipitous'??
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    • Profile picture of the author ewenmack
      Dan, if you had 2 choices of products to buy,
      they both appear to do what you want them to do
      and same price...

      which would you choose...

      1 demonstrated the least of it working?

      2 demonstrated the most of it working?

      Seems obvious, right?

      Would you take golf driving lessons from a guy talking about it,
      or a guy who demonstrates his power on video, as seen here...


      Same applies to your buyers.

      They have choices.

      Lead with proof of what you've done.

      If you have mountains of undeniable proof,
      nobody can knock you off.

      Every which way he could find and demonstrate proof was the
      secret Gary Bencivenga used to give him the title of The Greatest Living Copywriter.

      Best,
      Doctor E. Vile
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  • Profile picture of the author NyNyDanDan
    Hi Doctor - I do see what you mean. Proof speaks loudly, I do get that. Are you maybe suggesting I lead with the screenshot of my dating site inbox? My book deals 100% with online dating - I see many, many other products in the dating niche which deal with picking up girls in the real world - but my stuff talks only about the virtual world. I've even seen a dating product where the author was wearing a hidden camera to demonstrate his techniques. That's good stuff but I think I can only demo the quality of my offering with testimonials and screen shots.

    In fact - if any of you fine folks want to check my book out and put the techniques to use - or at least read the book even if you're not single and in the dating scene - please let me know and I'd be happy to PM the download link over to you. All I would ask is for a testimonial or your critique. Any takers??
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    • [QUOTE= I've even seen a dating product where the author was wearing a hidden camera to demonstrate his techniques. That's good stuff but I think I can only demo the quality of my offering with testimonials and screen shots[/QUOTE]



      Hey NyNyDanDan.


      That's good that you are taking a step in helping men communicate with women.


      What is your overall goal in terms of sales and money?


      What financial goal are you trying to hit overall and per month?


      How many sales do you want per month?
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    • Profile picture of the author ewenmack
      Originally Posted by NyNyDanDan View Post

      Hi Doctor - I do see what you mean. Proof speaks loudly, I do get that. Are you maybe suggesting I lead with the screenshot of my dating site inbox?
      That's a great place to start.

      Digging in to show the photos of the women
      who responded, what they said, what you said
      to get the dates, which one's you dated...all demonstrate
      what you have done is real.

      Now it starts looking real, not a bunch of word's
      that have little meaning to your guys.

      You can take it further by saying how to
      sort out the creepy one's that don't look like their
      pics in real life.

      I mean real helpful stuff.

      Best,
      Doctor E. Vile

      P.S. Emphasizing getting laid targets the younger
      and more desperate in your market who cause
      customer service hassle's and more refunds.

      You might want to reconsider that approach.
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  • Profile picture of the author NyNyDanDan
    What is your overall goal in terms of sales and money?


    What financial goal are you trying to hit overall and per month?


    How many sales do you want per month?
    My short term goal would be 10 sales per day at between $19.97 and $39.97 per sale (I'll also be testing other price points). I offer an upsell once a person has committed to buy for an additional $20 - I'd like to see at least half my buyers take the up-sell. I've written another book; "From Web Site to Date Night" about the art and game of seduction, first time dates and managing expectations for the women you'll be dating that you've met online.

    Anyhow, based on these ST sales goals I'd be looking at gross sales of 299.70 per day which comes to $8991 a month.
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