Gary Bencivenga --- I'm not impressed!

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That's a borderline sacrilegious headline...I know.

But I've been pouring over the swipes of various legendary direct-response copywriters, and the greatness is practically always justified.

But Gary's stuff just doesn't impress me. From a writing perspective, his pieces are long-winded, and don't flow particularly well. And frankly, the salesmanship is not all that.

His "olive oil" sales page, for example, which was mentioned in another thread...The offer at the end is a "free sample bottle" giveaway with no obligation.

No doubt it converted. But come on...it's not like he was asking for anything in return.

Maybe the guy wrote some great stuff that I've missed, but I can't see what the fuss is all about honestly.
#copywriting #bencivenga #gary #impressed
  • There are lots of legendary greats with whom I don't resonate. Doesn't make the work or the word choices or the research any less relevant a lesson.
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  • Fortunately for him, Gary's job isn't to impress anyone.

    He (self-admittedly) isn't the most talented "writer."

    The reason he's considered one of the best is because of the results he delivered.

    Opinions aside, his copy consistently out-pulled other top writers 9 times out of 10...

    And the fact that he's done it without "impressive" writing is even MORE reason to study him, IMO.
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    • If I gave my clients products away like that olive oil offer, I'm pretty sure I'd be beating 9/10 controls too (at least ones actually asking prospects to do something).

      Snide quips aside, I can't argue with the guys results. But I do find his pieces lack "flow" and tend to ramble on a lot...to the point where I get lost reading them.

      If that happens to me, I can't imagine his average prospect is fairing much better. But maybe they skip right down to his charitable offers.
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  • He's not giving away a bottle of olive oil...

    He's giving away a bottle of HIS olive oil. It's his business...his money.

    Think he'd be giving it away if he wasn't making money?
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    • No, that was one of Gary's clients, not his personal business.

      I think giving away samples is a great way to build brand awareness and a good long-run play for getting clients.

      But still, if I'm a business, I don't need to pay $xx,000 (plus royalties) to Gary Benicivenga to figure that out.
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  • I sort of agree. I think his ads appeal more to the sophisticated, older crowd.

    Obviously he's a master at what he does and his 100 seminar and his Bullets newsletters taught me a great deal.

    Personally Gary Halbert's and John Carlton's styles tend to jump off the page more to me and their swipes will appeal more to the younger crowd and translate better online.
  • Odds are, you're not the target market it was written for.

    Seeing that it's for his own business, I'm sure he would have rewritten it if it wasn't converting well.

    Sure lots of stuff. Google "Lies, Lies, Lies". It was an unbeaten control for over 12 years.

    Check some of the past threads in this forum. Some of his pieces have been highlighted here before.
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  • His copy lacks hype that you may be used to seeing and it may come across as "boring" or longwinded, but not to the target market he is writing for.

    Are you passionate about olive oil? Probably not. But someone out there who is probably read every word on that sales page.

    Break down the ad and find the usual elements. Examine his word choices how he uses authority, story, proof, exclusivity, etc throughout the copy. You will have many "aha" moments.
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  • Sometimes the "long-windedness" is necessary to set up a sales point. For example, olive oil lovers might not appreciate the fact that this product arrives within six months of pressing without being adequately schooled as to why freshness is so important -- which takes a couple paragraphs.

    And they won't be riled about "counterfeit" oil without a few paragraphs of back story. If the "scandal" was common knowledge, maybe the expository paragraphs wouldn't be as necessary.

    It's just another example of the fact that the length of a piece is often dictated by your audience's level of awareness...

    In fact, the first part of the pitch reads just like an informative article -- an "advertorial"...

    https://www.freshpressedoliveoil.com...d_olive_oil/dl

    It's only when you click for your free bottle that you get a real sales pitch...

    https://www.freshpressedoliveoil.com...ssed_olive_oil

    ...And it's for more than a free sample -- "You will automatically be enrolled as a member" (paying $124 per quarter for a bottle a month 'til you cancel)...

    I don't know much about his list, but I think that pitch is pretty well done. The "advertorial" is engaging, and the letter is a good sell for a primed audience...
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    • Anything that makes tons of money impresses me. I don't care if its boring, or not flashy. Its not that it is impressive, its more about the results and money. His skill is where he is able to coincide with the prospects reality. That is the skill you should be looking for.


      His salesmanship may not be impressive because it is levels above most people. And hard to grasp with the average mind.


      If you want to be a copywriter, you have to be able to match your prospects reality, and not write "What you think is impressive".

      "offer at the end is a "free sample bottle" giveaway with no obligation....it's not like he was asking for anything in return."


      That is selling without selling. There is no pressure, just giving value. When you are selling something, you have to be aware of the prospects pressure threshold. If you put a little to much pressure on the prospect, then the whole deal is off, even though they are standing right in front of you or still reading. They may have made up their mind about another product.


      Yeah they are probably still reading, but have it in there mind that they are going to have to think about it before paying for a bottle up front. So they click off and wait till they get paid next week. Or the prospect is thinking of a polite way to say "shut up and get out of my face so I know you wont try and ask me why I don't want your service"


      He is selling a bottle of olive oil. People have to think long and hard before purchasing something like that. That is challenging. Olive oil is located at your nearest grocery store....Try and grasp that...


      There is a difference between copy that closes the same day and closes a month from now if they are lucky and still remember.


      You have to be super sensitive about taking pressure away from the selling process and put more focus on selling without selling and adding value.


      Other than that, welcome to the copywriting forums. You still have a lot to learn. If you are serious about doing this, I suggest actually studying that sales letter until you find sales tactics.


      Words of wisdom that you might hold onto. Anything that you think is boring, that's exactly what you should be studying. Anything you don't get is what you should "get".


      Its like the guy that is all hyped about wushu rather than doing 1000 straight punches a day.


      2000 straight punches a day is more exciting because I understand it. I would be more scared to practice all those flashy moves. Just because I trained myself to do all those flashy moves.



      Free samples are the best with anything. The fact that he is relieving pressure off of the prospect is good. He's removing most of the obstacles to do whatever it takes to get the client hooked.


      Also to knock an obstacle out of the park, a lengthy discussion is preferred. The more you talk about it and the more detail you get into about it, the more it becomes real inside the prospects mind. It banishes skepticism.
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  • (Disclaimer 1) All copy is subjective - I might like it - you may hate it.

    What matters is the results.

    (Disclaimer 2) I am a huge Bencivenga fan.

    And I dislike long rambling spiels but I always enjoy reading his wondrous words - they never feel laboured (and never sound too "elegant" leaving that "this is a bit unreal" feeling).

    The 100 pitch was 1078 pages long (give or take) and of course sold out making a cool $500,000 plus the DVD sales.

    I've never read a piece by Gary that contained any "hype"

    Everything is immaculately emotionally and logically balanced.

    I imagine this is one of the many reasons why he had (has) more success than anyone else.


    Steve
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  • There is a a certain magic about good writing.

    If you read a piece and it sounds like good writing, then it is not.
    Good writing is transparent. You don't even know you are reading it.

    If a writer can get you to forget that you are reading and just having an
    experience then that is great writing.

    A movie that so enraptures you that you forget that you are watching a
    movie is a great movie.

    A woman that makes you forget that she is your wife is a good woman ...

    -Ray Edwards
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  • You hate him because you ain't him.

    Oh, and while I'm at it... that Da Vinci fellow... what a hack!

    Ross
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  • Lol. I knew I would get some serious hate for this thread.

    Contrary to what several of you were ranting about, I actually liked the fact his copy was low key and hype-free. That's not my problem with it. It just doesn't read well, and the rhythm/flow seems choppy to me.

    I could point out specifically what I mean...but it would be lost in this environment of group-think and deity worship.

    p.s. As for the olive oil promotion, I raised it specifically because I'm quite the olive oil connoisseur. I could tell you in elaborate detail the difference in taste between Greek and Spanish olives. Given that, I'd say I'm in his target market. But his sales letter still didn't read well, and I found myself having to re-read to connect the dots. *Shrugs*
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    • You've received some pretty decent responses, not just "hate". I guess what you are looking for is for someone to agree with you.

      You say you "could point out exactly what you mean" but I doubt you can. Otherwise I don't see the point of this thread or what kind of response you're looking for.

      Yeah you're right man. I don't get why his copy has performed so well. He's overrated and writing is choppy. I can't explain why but it just is!

      There you go, thread complete .
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  • Banned
    Welcome to the world of marketing my friend. That's what the marketing is all about creating CURIOSITY.
  • To add to what Mike said about lowering the reading level of the copy...

    It's to increase 'flow'.

    If your reader stumbles in a word - they're gone (often anyway).

    Readability trumps vocabulary.
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    • OK well it doesn't matter what you think

      What happens when his client base reads this

      And - do you all have some opinion on who his client base would be?

      Here's what I am thinking:

      Over 60 age range. Owns property. Retired with money to spend. Worried about security, their financial security, personal security, worried about their health, want to find safe food.

      I'm guessing he's got a longer-term mindset with this as well. He's paying to connect with people who are willing to spend $40 a month for a subscription olive oil business. These people have other needs which good Gary can address in the future.
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  • For some reason, this conversation reminds me of this...

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    • I had a similar thought Mark.

      A person who has never written a sales letter criticizing Gary B reminds me of a mosquito with an erection floating down the Mississipi river on his back yelling, "Raise the drawbridge!". LOL

      Alex
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  • Banned
    I don't know why you bother debating this guy. Obviously has no idea and is not prepared to listen and learn. Just wants a blue*.


    * "blue" - Australian slang for "fight" or "argument".

    p.s. his so-called "detailed critique" was laughable.
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    • Actually, I was going to point out that this thread seemed a little "trollish," but held my tongue...

      O.P. may have started out legit, but began enjoying the attention too much...

      Personally, I don't think there's anything wrong with critiquing the greats, even for a noob... Studies like that can be a learning experience and reveal interesting insights and perspectives. Problem comes when the critique has nothing to do with copywriting principles...

      (Disclaimer: I didn't read the critique. No way I'm gonna download something to my precious hard drive that could've been simply pasted into this thread... But still I bet the critique was more about "English Lit" stuff -- grammar and composition -- than copywriting principles... )
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  • Excuse me, but you get your bottle of olive oil by signing up to his quarterly automatic-bill olive oil club at $139 or $99 a quarter.

    There's no obligation because you have 90 days to cancel before you're billed.

    But rest assured: more often than not, he gets that first payment. Because it works the same way as the porn industry always worked: you make your money primarily by getting people to subscribe, and then FORGET THEY HAVE SUBSCRIBED.

    So you're sitting there and you see your card was charged. You call and want a refund. "No problem," they say. "Just send it back when you get the shipment. We'll cancel your subscription and refund your payment."

    Are you sending it back? Almost certainly not. They get to keep that payment. And if you don't call back to cancel, they'll do it again in three months.

    Now, that said - this is not Bencivenga's strongest copy.

    I would recommend you look at http://marketingbullets.com/ for something that might resonate more with you. After all, we're marketers, right? We respond to marketing discussion, and probably not so much to olive oil.

    Message to market match is one of Gary's strongest suits. The numbers don't lie - he can get in the prospect's head and convince him to buy into your story and your product.

    But if you're not the prospect, it probably doesn't work for you.
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    • So awesome to see Jason, Mal and Caliban posting.

      So absolutely sucky that it's in this god awful thread that just won't die.

      Please let this stupid thread die. Please?
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  • I thought it was pretty funny, I received an email from Ben Settle this morning who used this thread as a way to promote the "Titans of Direct Response".

    here was his email:

    Recently someone wrote the above thread title in that powerhouse of
    direct response marketing knowledge and experience:

    The Warrior Forum.

    The guy said basically this:

    He's been pouring over swipes from all the great direct response
    copywriters. But, that Gary Bencivenga (universally considered the
    world's greatest living copywriter, with the 40+year track record
    of controls to prove it) ads are long-winded, don't flow well, and
    have no salesmanship.

    He's certainly entitled to his opinion.

    And, he's probably a decent fellow.

    (It's not illegal for him to be wrong, after all.)

    I only bring this up to warn you that if you're thinking about
    checking out the "Legends of Direct Response" DVD's I've been
    yapping about all day... and you share the above warrior forum
    guy's opinion on Gary Bencivenga's ads, don't bother.

    Gary's talk is business-changing in so many ways.

    (His red shirt teaching is especially profitable.)

    But, people wandering the goo-roo casino won't get it... Will think
    it long-winded... And, will say it teaches no real salesmanship.
    (Just like the warrior forum guy thought of Gary's ads.)

    So anyway, if that's you, don't buy.

    I'm dead serious about this, too.

    Just leave it alone.

    Save your money.

    And, go ye back to the warrior forum.

    For everyone else?

    I highly suggest checking it out here:

    XXXXXXXXXX

    Yes, that is an affiliate link.

    No, it's not cheap.

    And, there's nothing "ninja" in it.

    (The word is even mocked during the event.)

    But if you go through the product, apply the various lessons,
    stories, and experiences to your emails and ads... I think you'll
    find it makes you tens, if not hundreds, of times your investment
    back over time.

    More:

    I've created a little "carrot" to get you to buy today.

    (And not put it off until it's even more expensive.)

    And, that carrot is over $5,000 worth of bonuses (true retail
    value, not phony made-up value) I'll send you if you use my link.
    These bonuses are also yours to keep even if you decide to return
    the Titans DVD's.

    These bonuses include:

    1. Crypto Marketing Secrets book
    2. The Agora tapes downloads
    3. 10 Copyright-free emails you can use however you want
    4. Gary Halbert Secrets From Beyond The Grave interview
    5. Free back issue of any "Email Players" issue you want
    6. Bullet Points template (same one I use)

    This offer ends Sunday at midnight.

    (Pacific time)

    Use my affiliate link below to get it and all the bonuses:

    XXXXXXXXXXXX

    Ben Settle
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  • Aaaaaand this is why I normally avoid the copywriting forum like the plague. Nothing but an ego circle-jerk of epic proportions.

    So the guy doesn't like one of the greats. Perhaps some of the things he said were even a bit ignorant. Who gives two shits, honestly? It's not like he insulted anyone here's writing.

    Besides, he obviously isn't going to get whatever super-intelligent "I-sure-showed-you" responses any of you are wasting your time serving up. It's a lose-lose.

    I understand feeling the urge to educate someone in a condescending manner when they're being a complete asshole, but this guy was beyond polite about his opinion. Which was merely that – an opinion.
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    • Well...well...well.

      I'm delighted that someone's profiting off my insights.

      The blow back from this thread took me by surprise honestly.

      As good man Ben Settle pointed out, I broke no law.

      But apparently, some fragile egos in these parts couldn't handle the notion that one of their copy gods was *gasp* actually a man.

      Anyhow, I take the hate in good stride. You know what they say --- any publicity is good publicity.
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