22 {{ upvoteCount | shortNum }}
22 {{ upvoteCount | shortNum }}

Question about Direct Mail...

by Jay Truman
19 replies
hey warriors,

i've been studying copywriting for some time now. I haven't written my first letter and not sure if i plan to do the writing myself.

I'd like to study direct mail pieces and was wondering the best ways to get on a mailing list so i can get a bunch of direct mail.

Is there a general way to get on lists for any niche? I would use the SRDS if I could, to get on lists.... but was wondering if there was any other way to get on direct mail lists?
#copy #learning #question
  • Profile picture of the author colmodwyer
    Buy stuff.

    Colm
    Signature
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1018406].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Jay Truman
    dont know what to buy, thats the point.

    if im doing biz opps... should i buy some biz opp/make money from TV? i just don't want to buy a product and not get a bunch of direct mail, lol...

    guess i should just buy and SRDS and won't have this problem.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1018413].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Bill Jeffels
      Jay,

      Direct Mail, there are alot of factors that come into play. Yes, definitely get the SRDS book.

      There are so many factors. Just getting your letter opened is huge. Plain #10 envelope, no teaser copy, letter looks personal from me to you. Real stamp. Take the letters to the post office yourself (trust me), don't let the letter shop do it for you.

      The list is huge. Recency, Frequency and unit of sale.

      You want to get a list that is hot, usually a list of prospects that have purchased a product in the last 30 days. This means their still in the "Buying" mode.

      If it's recent, great, if they've bought your type of product before better, that shows they trust a personal letter and they will usually keep buying... but for a limited time.

      You should really educate yourself on DM before you get into it. Don't forget to "Z" fold your letter, put it in the envelope backwards so the first thing your prospect will see is your headline.

      Be careful with list brokers, some are good some are bad.

      Best,

      Bill Jeffels
      Signature
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1018438].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author MikeHumphreys
        I agree with Bill. You need to at least try to write your own direct mail piece, using what you've learned. You may not be ready to mail it but until you actually try writing something, you're just in study mode which won't make you any money. As soon as you switch out of study mode and into action mode, then you have the chance to make money using your developing DM skills.

        The more accurate question would be what niches do you want to study and get marketing from? It's hard to suggest someone's list to get on if we don't know what niches/topics you're interested in.

        Dan Kennedy's Magnetic Marketing is a solid DM resource with a large swipe file of different DM pieces for a variety of niches. I'd grab it thru Ebay from an authorized seller at a deep discount. Or if you prefer an ebook, check out Joe Gracia's Give To Get ebook.

        Joe Sugarman's Adweek Copywriting Handbook has some solid DM examples as well.

        Hope that helps,

        Mike
        Signature
        Kickstart Your Copywriting Business: How To Get Loads of New Clients FAST!

        Kick-A$$ Eight-Figure Producing Copywriting Gun For Hire | Marketing & Copywriting Blog
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1018467].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Loren Woirhaye
    Magnetic Marketing is a must-get for direct mail, especially
    for small businesses. For super-star swipes mailed in the
    millions get "Million Dollar Mailings" by Dennison Hatch. Even
    though the book is mostly swipes, the few chapters about
    direct response marketing in there are incredibly insightful.

    I have this 1986 book by Rose Harper called "Mailing List
    Strategies" - it is as dry and a bone to read, but it's not
    meant to be entertaining. Ben Suarez's book is also really
    strong.

    If you are doing bizops make sure you get on a lot of junk-mail
    lists for mlms and things. I'm on a few and I get some mailings
    that are pretty good and some that are jaw-dropping-moronic.

    You can actually, if you really get into it, harvest a list from
    the bozos who send you bizop/mlm mailings and just mail right
    back at them. Chances are whatever they are using is a
    piece of crap that isn't making them money, so if you've got
    something better, or can write a better pitch... and said
    bozos still have money in their pockets, they might join
    your plan.
    Signature
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1018496].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Loren Woirhaye
    Yeah. It's a messy product, but for the price it sells for
    it's a great value, IMO, despite the haphazard presentation.

    The principles are sound, but in today's market you'll do
    well to update the appeals and incorporate public awareness
    of the internet in how you use direct mail... offering a website
    as an ordering mechanism for example, along with address
    and phone number.
    Signature
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1018674].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Jay Truman
      thanks for the responses everyone. I appreciate your concern.

      Its probably a year out before I do my first direct mailing and I think i'll be starting off with postcards, but that's still undecided. I'm also not sure if i'll even be writing the copy myself. I just want to look at what campaigns are making money and just swipe there campaign.

      As for niches... I'm looking at Biz ops, dating/adult, supplements (fitness, beauty), and possibly real estate. These are the niches im considering and not necessarily getting into all of them.

      Any feedback on Postcards vs. Letters, would be apprceiated.

      Also, found a free alternative to SRDS for the moment, nextmark. Anyone have any opinions on nextmark?
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1021226].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Bill Jeffels
        Hi Jay,

        I think it's great you want to get into Direct Mail.

        One of the niches that you mentioned I think you should consider choosing is Diet/Fitness. The lists for this market are huge and can be very responsive. But with the Diet market you have to be careful what type of "claims" you make.

        2 books have been mentioned that I completely agree with getting right away. They are "Million Dolar Mailings" by Dension Hatch and Joe Sugarman's Copywriting Handbook, actually anything by Joe Sugarman.

        When you go to "Rent" names from a mailing list, usually the minimum you have to rent is three thousand. But that does not mean you have to mail three thousand.

        I would suggest testing one thousand and see what kind of response you get. With DM alot of it is testing. You can test a headline, the offer, the gurantee, even the ordering system. You could also take your three thousand names test one thousand each with different headlines, etc, and see which one is the most responsive.

        After you get a good response then you can do a large mail out.

        One thing you can also consider, lets take diet for example, you can get the subscribers list of large magazines such as Woman Fitness, Womans Health, Womans World or Cosmo and these women have already put their hands up and said yes I'm interested in Diet/Fitness.

        Anyway, this is just a small taste of DM hope that helps you out.

        Take care,

        Bill Jeffels
        Signature
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1025765].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author Mr. Subtle
          Originally Posted by Bill Jeffels View Post

          When you go to "Rent" names from a mailing list, usually the minimum you have to rent is three thousand. But that does not mean you have to mail three thousand.
          Minimum list rental is 5,000 names. In fact, there are many lists today with 10,000 name minimums.

          Originally Posted by Bill Jeffels View Post

          One thing you can also consider, lets take diet for example, you can get the subscribers list of large magazines such as Woman Fitness, Womans Health, Womans World or Cosmo and these women have already put their hands up and said yes I'm interested in Diet/Fitness.
          Magazine subscribers would be a poor choice for list for a diet (info) product (in your example) when you can buy tons of lists where the unit of purchase is in the $60 (plus) area for a similar/compatible product that you are trying to sell.
          Signature

          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1026062].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author Bill Jeffels
            Hi Mr.Subtle,

            The list numbers that I was quoting were a Toronto based company that one of my clients have used in the past. I was told they were from 3-9 thousand.

            But if you say yours is 5-10 thousand than that's what it is. And I agree with you about the subscribers list, I was just trying let Jay know about the options that are out there.

            A list of customers that have bought a Diet product from the mail would be more responsive.

            And a buyers list of prospects that have purchased a product in the last 30 days would be ideal. Good points.

            Take care,

            Bill Jeffels
            Signature
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1026185].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author Hesster
            Originally Posted by Mr. Subtle View Post

            Minimum list rental is 5,000 names. In fact, there are many lists today with 10,000 name minimums.



            Magazine subscribers would be a poor choice for list for a diet (info) product (in your example) when you can buy tons of lists where the unit of purchase is in the $60 (plus) area for a similar/compatible product that you are trying to sell.
            I was flipping through one of those 'small business opportunity' magazines and saw a list provider advertising DM lists of as small as 300 names. No idea if it's legit, though.

            Now, given the average response rate for DM, I think that anyone who would rent a list that small either has to be A.) really confident in their copy with a laser targeted list, or B.) really crazy and/or dumb.
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1026885].message }}
            • Profile picture of the author Mr. Subtle
              Originally Posted by Hesster View Post

              I was flipping through one of those 'small business opportunity' magazines and saw a list provider advertising DM lists of as small as 300 names. No idea if it's legit, though.
              Originally Posted by Onslaught View Post

              I have got local lists with under 1000 names. Just look around (cause I forgot who I used :rolleyes
              HAHaha... hey guys, I'm talkin' REAL direct mail lists. You know the ones... the ones Halbert always PIKES about... the starving crowd. I'll bet every dime in my pocket the 300 name list in a biz opp magazine and the 1,000 name geographic targeted list both would SUCK big time response-wize.

              I'm NOT talking about getting magazine subscriber lists nor am I talking about getting the name and addy of everyone living in a certain geographic area. I'm talking about getting lists... getting names of people who have bought a similar product at a price that you're selling your product for (or more). Sorry Charlie, but you're not going to get a 1,000 name list like this to test until you buy their minimum order of 5,000. This will probably set you back from the get-go by at least $500-$600... then you have the cost of a 1,000 piece mailing test on top of that. That's why few online NOOBs do offline stuff... 'cause the cost of admission is to frickin' high.
              Signature

              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1027115].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author sun2son
    Bill Jeffels offers a number of good points.

    You should also consider putting the stamp on crooked, making sure the font does NOT look 'typed', and one of the best tricks is to put some sort of object in the envelope so it does not 'stack' neatly and therefore ends up in the top of the stack of mail.

    It could be a cheap trinket but MAKE SURE it ties in somehow to your letter. Example: If your trinket was a tiny compass and your headline was "In case you've lost your way back to our store..." - you get my point.

    If your clever and/or your trinket is unique your mailing piece COULD actually end up in the hands of more than one prospect (a good thing).

    Finally - List brokers - unless you're buying 10's of thousands of leads every month you're not going to carry much weight. All the same - it's better to have a lousey mailing piece and a good list then the other way around.. Don't skimp on your list.

    Start small - test - modify - test - modify > roll out the larger numbers (and never stop testing).

    Good luck,
    s2s
    Signature
    Super fresh Green Tea Powder - Premium quality, naturally grown for 600 years. Matcha, and other green tea powder varieties!
    http://japanesegreenteapowder.com/
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1026797].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Rezbi
    Originally Posted by Jay Truman View Post

    hey warriors,

    i've been studying copywriting for some time now. I haven't written my first letter and not sure if i plan to do the writing myself.

    I'd like to study direct mail pieces and was wondering the best ways to get on a mailing list so i can get a bunch of direct mail.

    Is there a general way to get on lists for any niche? I would use the SRDS if I could, to get on lists.... but was wondering if there was any other way to get on direct mail lists?
    Along with what others are saying I would recommend getting Direct and Digital Marketing by Drayton Bird.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1026857].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author doublee
    Hello Jay,

    I noticed several people mentioned Dan Kennedy.
    A few days ago I watched one of his videos, and he said one of the
    companies you want to get on their list is Nordictrac. He said they
    are brilliant at getting leads and follow up.

    Just thought I'd throw that in the ring.

    Good luck,

    Tom
    Signature
    Small Business Wordpress Website Builder
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1027017].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author lisag
    Originally Posted by Jay Truman View Post

    hey warriors,

    i've been studying copywriting for some time now. I haven't written my first letter and not sure if i plan to do the writing myself.

    I'd like to study direct mail pieces and was wondering the best ways to get on a mailing list so i can get a bunch of direct mail.

    Is there a general way to get on lists for any niche? I would use the SRDS if I could, to get on lists.... but was wondering if there was any other way to get on direct mail lists?
    Google direct mail list rentals.
    Contact the companies and ask if you can be put on their "seed list." Seeds are names that go into lists so the list owners can track how long it takes for their mail to hit certain parts of the country. Plus,, since the names are secret, they are also used to see if anyone has stolen their mailing list. The theory being that your seed name shouldn't be on anyone else's list. When you become a seed they assign you a fictitious name at your actual address.
    Signature

    -- Lisa G

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1034706].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author jmarketer
    while you're figuring out the list that you want, pay close attention to the mail you get sent to your home or office. Large corporations spend millions of dollars on direct mail, so usually if you're getting something, check out the techniques they are using because more than likely, it works.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1035209].message }}

Trending Topics