The Order Button Mystery

27 replies
Hey everyone out there, how are y'all doing?

One of the most important things any business owner wants is CERTAINTY: certainty about why isn't this product selling as well as I expected it to sell, certainty thanks to split testing about how you can optimize your offer, etc.

And I have this website which only got like 40 visitors per week, which sold a product that only one person per month would buy..which is a very low conversion rate (or so I thought). And I started improving my copy: better guarantee, more bonuses, pressing more emotional hot buttons, etc. and hoped things would improve...but they didn't...which pretty much was against all "copywriting odds" but I checked and doublechecked and did everything by the book.

So I decided to test the order buttons themselves to see IF people would click them or not, so I would know if it's a matter of bad copy or bad order pages..and I was shocked to find out that 80% of the visitors that landed on my sales letter clicked the order button! But here's a mystery for ya: no sales to show for it :confused:

Now I'm faced with the challenge of how to change that and I have my own ideas about it, but I want to know your opinion because I always learn a LOT from the advice given to me on these forums..AND I kind of need an "outside man" because I feel like I'm too much into it to be able to have a pespective on things, an overview you know..

Here are my ideas:

- It could be that people click order but don't buy because my shopping cart asks for a phone number to process orders..which I currently don't explain (and people are very privacy protective with their digits)
- It could be that my cart content simple says -my product here- and doesn't state all the bonuses and thus value people are getting one more time (which means seeing product A = $199 will scare them away)
- I could be the fact that I haven't addressed buying objections well enough for them to convert from prospects into customers
- It could be the order button itself: it currently says "Add To Cart" while I think/feel that "Order Now" would work better

But what do you guys think? I'd love to hear your thoughts on this one and hey..if you need help with getting to this point (and thus with writing good copy)? I'd be happy to return the favor and help YOU!

I have around 9 ideas about what could be the cause, but I need some input here because Im obviously losing dollars while it CAN be avoided..
#button #mystery #order
  • Profile picture of the author Paul Hancox
    Hi Dennis

    My first question... do they have to click the order button to get the price?

    If so, then most of the 80% may be clicking the order button just to find out how much it is! In that case, clicking your order button doesn't mean they're ready to buy.

    If not, then it could well be your order process after all. Do you really NEED the phone number thing?

    As others have pointed out, it's difficult to be specific without seeing your site and order form.
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  • Profile picture of the author Bigsofty
    'Add to cart' is fine, does well usually but only to be used it actually adding to a cart.

    If they're hitting a cart button and being dumped on an order form you're upsetting them by acting weird. Try not.

    The most common cause of cart abandonment is postage or hidden costs. As Paul says above, they want to check the price. If it's a physical product with postage try moving some of the postage fee onto the price, to make the postage look smaller.


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  • Profile picture of the author Dennis Miedema
    Before I give you guys the link so you can see for yourselves, I'd like to answer some of your questions..

    - They discover the price (and moneyback guarantee) BEFORE they ever see an order button

    - I use 1shoppingcart.com for processing payments etc. and strangely enough, they do require you to fill in your digits to complete the order process (but if there's anyone out there that can contradict me on this one..I'd LOVE to hear it!)

    - And bigsofty, the whole thing about 1shopping (otherwise an awesome company so don't consider this a "hating frenzy") is that the only order button image they give you IS that add to cart thing, after which you're directly taken to an order form!

    - There aren't any hidden costs either: no value added tax, shipping & handling etc. because it's a downloadable product AND taxes are included

    - Proof of concept: I have sold a whole bunch of copies but it's more a once per week/month kinda thing, but the back end is HUGE (tripled my profits with two not even optimized back end products)..so the concept DOES work and is built on what the market wants (btw: the dating advice industry is 100+ million dollars every year), but it's the offer/order process that's the problem in my opinion.

    Now we got that out of the way, here's a quick overview of what I've applied: compelling headline, here's who I am piece (intro + proof of expertise), freeline content (a free insight), here's what you get (bullets), proof that it works (video), handling objections, bonuses, moneyback guarantee, take away..testimonials..so the whole nine yards.

    See for yourself on Online Dating Tips: Everything A Man Should Know About Meeting Women Online

    And by all means: if you do anything at all (because it's long style copy I can understand if you become bored ), then check out the screen AFTER the letter: the order form.

    Any thoughts are much appreciated!
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    • Profile picture of the author Aronya
      Originally Posted by Dennis Miedema View Post

      - They discover the price (and moneyback guarantee) BEFORE they ever see an order button
      Dennis,
      If this is true, it's well hidden. I never saw either one. I DID see the references to a "One Time Easy Payment with 365 Day Free Trial", which is contradictory. Am I paying, or is this a free trial?

      Already been said: too much in the headline. Try something more like :
      If You Don't Go On At Least One Date A Month With A Beautiful, Intelligent Woman, I Will
      PAY You $100 For Your Trouble!

      Subhead:
      Feel Shockingly Confident With "The Amazing Secrets Of Meeting Women Online"

      I'd try adding a Buy Now button before you start with all of your bullets.

      If you can, restate all of the benefits and bonuses on the purchase page, and again on the Thank You page & (assuming you send it) Thank You email.
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  • Profile picture of the author Dennis Miedema
    note: apparently warriorforum automatically picks up the title of my letter..lol..but by all means moderators, this is for learning copywriting purposes and not selling so don't be bothered ;-)
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  • Profile picture of the author Bigsofty
    I'm off to bed but I'll skim over it for ya..

    Headline is too long.

    Image is on the wrong side.

    'Dear friend' - speak to Kyle...

    You introduce yourself before grabbing the readers attention and promising them a benefit for reading the page.

    You mention 8 weeks before you build images of success, with proof. You're making it sound hard.

    "met my dream girl" - sounds like luck, weak. Change it.

    Cries of desperation, wanted anybody with a pulse etc etc - here you're too strong and unbelievable, besides, who wants advice from someone like that? Take care not to put yourself down too much. Consider an event, a story with a story to it, something like when you went to college the babes were so hot - but nothing you did would work, you tried everything blah..

    OK, the story picks up and seems good (disclaimer, I AM half asleep and skimming through before wifey gets out the shower..)

    Your testimonials are all down the side - build the best ones into the copy.

    Holy crap, just noticed how long this is. OK, like any visitor I now start scrolling - I'd suggest you use the 'INTERNET' as a sub heading, with a bit of effort in it, as your first heading is about 'interested replies', which is a bit disjointed.

    Next header is too long.. and unbelievable cos I'm scrolling..

    Here's what I'll get? I'm 1/5th of the way in and you're making an offer? Ah, bullets. BAD heading.

    Bullets.. bullets... more bullets.. you studied under Gatling?

    This is a first - boredom by bullets...

    Video! Wifey's out the shower, no time.

    'Why' heading sux.

    The key image SUX.

    OK, skipping down to the famous add to cart button.


    Ah.

    First, your credit card logos are bigger than the buttons. Reverse that. Secondly, buttons, plural. WTF?

    Ah, payment plan.. nice, though it best be expensive if you're doing that and I didn't see enough value. You say you tell em the price? Where? I'm not seeing it..

    The whole button area is messy, confusing, you're using 'purchase' and 'cost' right now to it and guess what? My first instinct would be to hit the button as see how much it cost.

    Just like you were told earlier



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  • Profile picture of the author Bigsofty
    next to it, not 'now to it'. I plead sleepy.


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  • Profile picture of the author Paul Hancox
    Hi Dennis

    Thanks for sharing your web site. I haven't read what others have posted (since you posted your link), so as not to be influenced by your comments.

    OK, I didn't read it word for word, but skimmed it, trying to pay attention to as much as I could. I think you've done quite a good job so far... I especially found your earlier stories to be quite entertaining. It looks like you're going for a David DeAngelo style letter.

    Personally, I think the HEADLINE is too busy. You're trying to cram everything into it, and you're insantly admitting you're selling something. While that may work at times, you're also clouding people's judgment straight away. They are instantly looking at your page through a "sales" lense.

    Plus, along with all the testimonials on the side, it makes for a very "busy" page to start, with the eye being drawn all over the place. Which do you want them to read first, your headline and copy, OR the testimonials? You can't have both... if you DIVIDE their attention, you may lose them.

    Also, while your story is good, after the headline it all starts off all about YOU, YOU, YOU. You need to almost instantly tie in your discoveries and knowledge to the READER very quickly.

    Also, with your bullet points - they seem to be more a list of FEATURES. You need to also convert them to benefits, and what each feature will do for the reader, i.e.

    Why it's a MISTAKE to accept invitations from the women you're messaging with to chat in the social network's chatbox right now...but a VERY smart idea to chat in that same chatbox with women you don't when, and when YOU want > Mentor Mail 12
    OK, great... but tell the reader what will happen to them if they use this tip... or what will happen if they don't. If you notice DeAngelo's sales letters (which I think you've tried to follow) you'll notice he does this almost all of the time with his bullet points.

    So it's not just a mistake... tell them WHAT WILL HAPPEN if they do, or don't!

    5 easy monthly payments of $39,80
    You should change the comma in the price to a full stop / period, ie. $39.80. That's how prices are written in dollars. The comma makes it look more expensive than it is.

    OK, these are just some fairly quick thoughts. Overall, I think you haven't done a bad job, but you just need to relate things more TO THE READER.

    I'm familiar with DeAngelo's sales letters because I analyzed them in-depth in my Guru Report #1... and DeAngelo is definitely a good guru to model, but you have to notice how he's more subtle. For example, look at HIS headlines compared to yours. He doesn't try and sell right from the start. Instead, he RELATES to his audience. It's like, "Hey... I know where you're at... I understand... I've been there... Here's my story and how it will be RELEVANT to you."

    I think you will benefit a lot from my Guru Report #1, but if you're not able to get that, I hope these tips have been useful to you.


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    • Profile picture of the author Dennis Miedema
      Wow..great feedback guys! Especially you Paul, you said some very valuable things!

      Originally Posted by Paul Hancox View Post

      I especially found your earlier stories to be quite entertaining. It looks like you're going for a David DeAngelo style letter.
      Can you be more specific? So WHICH stories do you mean?

      Originally Posted by Paul Hancox View Post

      Personally, I think the HEADLINE is too busy. You're trying to cram everything into it, and you're insantly admitting you're selling something. While that may work at times, you're also clouding people's judgment straight away. They are instantly looking at your page through a "sales" lense.
      Good point! I'll edit it a.s.a.p. together with all your other comments about the busy page (so headline, testies etc.)

      Originally Posted by Paul Hancox View Post

      Also, while your story is good, after the headline it all starts off all about YOU, YOU, YOU. You need to almost instantly tie in your discoveries and knowledge to the READER very quickly.
      I sense from the very beginning that my intro could be better, you just confirmed it..thanks for that! I'll try to relate more..


      Originally Posted by Paul Hancox View Post

      Also, with your bullet points - they seem to be more a list of FEATURES. You need to also convert them to benefits, and what each feature will do for the reader, i.e.
      Funny you said that, because with a lot of bullets I actually DO include emotions (so benefits), but I somehow get the sense that if I include emotions with all of them..that every single bullet will become like 10 lines long :p but your point is..drive that baby home either way, even if the bullet does end up getting several lines long, right?

      Originally Posted by Paul Hancox View Post

      You should change the comma in the price to a full stop / period, ie. $39.80. That's how prices are written in dollars. The comma makes it look more expensive than it is.
      Does that really make things look more expensive? Didn't know that! And do you think I should include not only the 5 installments but the wholesale price as well?

      @ Bigsofty..although some people could find the way you put it offensive, I like the fact that you're straight to the point..a BS detector if you will. You also pointed out some very valuable stuff, thanks for that. I thanked the both of you guys and will start making changes this weekend and give you a "new-and-improved" version
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  • Profile picture of the author RentItNow
    No mystery, it's that the button is a mystery to your visitor. Clearly state the price on the sales page. You are actually wasting a visitor's time by not displaying it. I don't think they are going to appreciate enough to buy after that.
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  • Profile picture of the author nontemplates
    Yep. Unless you changed it I didn't see a price, I guess long copy is popular now but that copy was WAY too long for me. Maybe you state the price somewhere but given the length of the copy they are skimming over alot of it until the add cart buttons shows up.

    I may get some heat for this but in my opinion the picture has got to go. It appears right over a blurb about the skills you picked up over five years. Problem? You look the most 19 so the reader is supposed to believe you picked up viable skills at 13/14 that they would want to use?

    Know your audience. I suspect that most of your cart clicks are just curiousity from teens. Older guys are not going to take your experience seriously with that photo and they are the ones with the dough to buy it. I think in this case following the convention of showing a picture of yourself doesn't work.

    Like alot of your copy though . Funny stuff
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  • Profile picture of the author kemdev
    Granted, I'm not much of a copywriting expert, so I can't provide
    you with some in-depth analysis of your sales page. What I can
    do, however, is give you my observation on purely a potential
    consumer level. Here's my best explanation as to why you've been
    seeing statistics like that:

    Whenever I see a long sales page like that, I usually read the
    headline, read a few paragraphs - if that - of copy, maybe read
    a testimonial or two, then skim down to find the price. In your sales
    page - at least, from what I saw - the price isn't really advertised
    much. When I skimmed your page, I think I saw your price once,
    and the way it was stated was a little confusing to me.

    Usually, if people can't really find the price, they'll click on the closest
    order button to find out how much they have to shell out. This just
    might be what's happening in your case.

    The way I see it, you probably have two fixes: decrease your price,
    or do a better job of advertising how much content/benefit readers
    will be getting for the price.

    Just my observation. Hope it helps!

    All the best,

    Jesse Kemmerer
    kemmerer.j@gmail.com
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    • Profile picture of the author Daniel Scott
      One of the best post I've seen here by someone who isn't a pro copywriter in ages.

      What I like is that you state your opinion as an OPINION... not as a fact. Wonderful.

      Anyway, all that aside, Jeremy has, I think, nailed it...

      People skim. If you can't capture their interest, they'll either click the order link or the back button. And if you haven't made them want your product (and for $100 they have to want it pretty damn badly) you won't get a sale.

      The problem is that your page sucks, basically.

      You've got a good angle... the right idea... but the writing just isn't compelling enough to make it interesting.

      You want to go through that letter and gradually re-write it, taking out EVERY WORD that isn't CRUCIAL to your sales letter.

      Essentially, you want to fine-tune that baby until she's lean, sexy, and ready to go.

      At the moment, the page reads like a really bad first draft... but if you used shorter paragraphs, more emotionally charged sentences, and took out the excess verbiage, I think it'd be pretty good.

      Now, this may sound harsh... but you've got a lot of good things in there. They're just being overshadowed by your crazy level of words.

      -Dan

      Originally Posted by Jesse Kemmerer View Post

      Granted, I'm not much of a copywriting expert, so I can't provide
      you with some in-depth analysis of your sales page. What I can
      do, however, is give you my observation on purely a potential
      consumer level. Here's my best explanation as to why you've been
      seeing statistics like that:

      Whenever I see a long sales page like that, I usually read the
      headline, read a few paragraphs - if that - of copy, maybe read
      a testimonial or two, then skim down to find the price. In your sales
      page - at least, from what I saw - the price isn't really advertised
      much. When I skimmed your page, I think I saw your price once,
      and the way it was stated was a little confusing to me.

      Usually, if people can't really find the price, they'll click on the closest
      order button to find out how much they have to shell out. This just
      might be what's happening in your case.

      The way I see it, you probably have two fixes: decrease your price,
      or do a better job of advertising how much content/benefit readers
      will be getting for the price.

      Just my observation. Hope it helps!

      All the best,

      Jesse Kemmerer
      kemmerer.j@gmail.com
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  • Profile picture of the author E-supreme
    Hey,

    I thought your sales page was far too long. It didnt captivate me from the start.

    Some good elements but thats just what I thought!
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  • Profile picture of the author Michael J Ottman
    Hi, I noticed that you have a Paypal logo under your payment button but when I go to checkout, there is now Pay by Paypal in the pay area.

    So many people already put in their credit card info with Paypal and when they see that they need to input it again into your payment area, they just leave.

    I would set up a quick payment button with Paypal and that would save some of your trouble.

    Also the graphics are bad as you need a professional minisite to stimulate your visitors emotions and lastly I get lost in the mile long sales copy.

    You need to put a sign up form in the very beginning and offer your 10 best tips for free in a report or video of some kind.

    Then you have the rest of eternity to convince them to purchase through your autoresponder.

    I'm no copywriter but giving something of value just for showing up on the page to begin with will get you a great list of people to market to.

    Hope this helps some as I too am learning something new every day.

    Michael Ottman
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    Visit My Blog At MichaelOttman.com
    Get Graphics At SimpleEcovers.com

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    • Profile picture of the author Dennis Miedema
      Okay guys..I had to bring some "hustle" to the table here but I've managed to change a lot:

      - Shorter, more compelling headline (that doesn't "give away" that I'm trying to sell something)
      - Business of the page is gone: no more headline AND testimonials side by side
      - No more TOO strong intro or intro about me: intro about reader with some of my own experience where it's relevant
      - Improved the subheadings, images, creditcard logos and order buttons
      - I've put the definite offer in a table with a easily recognizable background color and the price RIGHT ABOVE IT (which should make it easier to find) + removed the free trial vs. payment sentence (changed it to trial) etc. etc.

      Please have a look and tell me what you think, especially you Paul and BigSofty! Online Dating Tips: Everything A Man Should Know About Meeting Women Online

      And btw..Michael..the entire site BEFORE the letter serves as a "squeeze site" (videos, articles, customer e-mails and opt in forms for my newsletter - all to give visitors that are interested in my niche value)
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      • Profile picture of the author Aronya
        Dennis,
        I think it's getting better, but IMHO, there are still a couple of things to address:

        Still incredibly long copy. If it works, great, but have you tested a shorter (not short) version?

        Too many bullets.

        Not clear what you're delivering - email series? ebook? teleseminar series? membership site?

        It's going to take 8 weeks to go thru your program? Why? If there's THAT much material to absorb that it takes 8 weeks, you may not be charging enough.

        Grammar and punctuation corrections needed. Example: "Me and one of my close friends Roeland recently sat down..." Should be "I and one of my close friends, Roeland, recently sat down..." or (since nobody talks like that) "One of my close friends, Roeland, and I..." A lot of people think this is something that can be overlooked, but anything that causes your reader (and you're asking us to read a LOT) to stumble or hesitate at ALL, interrupts the flow of your sales copy, and that's death to your sales.

        One or two in a novel like you've written is acceptable, but if they occur regularly, and especially if they start early in the copy, I end up looking for the mistakes rather than reading the text. I may be a little pickier than the next guy, but this stuff drives me crazy. I wouldn't become a customer. If I want advice from someone, I want to feel like they're an expert. Expert means (maybe subconsciously) intelligent. Intelligent means they don't make consistent mistakes in grammar, punctuation and language. I'm not slamming you here; just explaining.

        HTH
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  • Profile picture of the author Dennis Miedema
    Aronya, by all means: I don't consider it to be slamming my friend, in fact, I think your tip is very valuable because I FORGOT all about spelling & grammar..and I'm NOT a grammatical genius so thanks a lot!

    Please check your Private Messages :-)

    Any other comments out there?
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  • Profile picture of the author Paul Hancox
    Hi Dennis

    Well, it's getting better

    First, a couple of formatting issues. I hate the font! Maybe it's just me, but the font looks too "basic".

    Also, each sentence seems to be too close to the edge of the border. If that were a typed out letter, it's like you've typed right to the edges.

    Incidentally, here's a little secret I discovered from Marketing Sherpa experiments... try and keep each line to within about 60 characters. After that, the mind struggles because of the sentence lengths.

    Now, down to the copy...

    I'm liking the stories much better, i.e. how you compare online dating to the real world, and how she's getting that, but TEN TIMES as much online.

    You have a real "knack" for telling entertaining stories... I like it! The one I really liked was how you got to see your younger sister's online dating account... BRILLIANT

    Here's a question I have. What IS it? What exactly IS your program?

    Is it a series of videos, ebooks, or what? (You may have answered that in your copy, but I couldn't see it).

    I think you need to SPELL OUT what it is, and precisely what they'll get for their money.

    For example, here's David DeAngelo's "Advanced Dating Techniques" sales letter:

    Double Your Dating Advanced Dating Techniques Series

    Notice he has a section entitled, "Here's What You Get"... and he gives the reader a graphical image, along with bullet points spelling out what they get, ie...

    Nearly 18 full hours of digitally recorded material on 18 Audio CDs or 9 DVDs

    A workbook full of teaching slides and aides

    A detailed track listing for quick access

    Sturdy 3-ring binder to hold all of your CDs/DVDs and other material

    Now, I appreciate yours isn't a physical product, but it would still help if you could SPELL OUT precisely what they'll get, similar to how DeAngelo has done it.

    Is it a series of videos? If so, how long? I recommend you answer that clearly in your copy.
    Now, the other issue may not be directly your copy... but the MONEY.

    The kinds of people who will buy this product... do they have the money? I'm not sure who you're pitching it to at the moment... and I appreciate anyone could use it in theory... but in practice, are you pitching it to people who can AFFORD IT?

    I know DeAngelo's video products are $300-$500, but remember they have already purchased his "Double Your Dating" ebook ($20), so they are already customers... they've already spent money with him... plus, his higher priced products are physical products, shipped out to you.

    I'm not saying $200 is expensive, but this might be one reason you're not getting the sales at the moment... especially as I don't think you're pitching to lawyers or people with lots of money

    Maybe you can do a split test. Send half of your traffic to Version A, with your current price ($199)... and half to Version B, with the price at, say $99.

    If Version B gets you many more sales, then price really IS a big issue. (The only way you'll find out is to split test).

    In other words, I actually think the sales copy may perhaps be less of an issue than other issues such as price, and even trust.

    Do the people who arrive on this site know you? Have they read any other material by you?

    If not, why not overcome the trust barrier by GIVING AWAY a small part of your material, in exchange for their email address.

    Then you can also follow up on them, and lead them into buying the rest of your program.

    In other words, your sales copy is quite good... I suspect they may not be buying for bigger reasons, such as TRUST, BELIEVABILITY and even MONEY (or the lack of it).
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    • Profile picture of the author Collette
      You might be losing sales because your market can see that you have stolen D'Angelo's copy for his product. Almost word-for-word. Marks you as a pretender immediately.

      D'Angelo's version:

      "Why Most Men FAIL With Online Dating...
      And What To Do About It..."

      Dear Friend,


      Most guys who try online dating FAIL miserably.

      Online dating SEEMS like a great idea... doesn't it?

      You sit down at your computer, logon to the online dating website, and start emailing all kinds of hot babes... with no fear of "rejection" or confrontation. And then they email you back, get to know "the real you", build a relationship in a friendly, low-key way, and eventually go out on a date...

      Wouldn't it be GREAT if that was how it actually worked?

      Well, if you've actually TRIED online dating, then you KNOW it's not like that AT ALL.

      In fact, if you've tried it out, then you know that it can actually be MORE challenging than meeting women in the "real world".

      Why is this?

      Well, for starters, it's this way because almost EVERY GUY is thinking this same "ideal fantasy" about online dating. And the online dating companies aren't exactly "downplaying" how difficult it is to REALLY meet women online.

      But there's another reason... a more IMPORTANT reason...

      Let me ask you something...

      Have you ever been to an "average" bar or nightclub? You know the kind I'm talking about. It's just OK... the booze is cheap, the music is predictable, and the people are all pretty boring.

      But at every one of those places, there's always a HOT girl or two. She's the one that everyone is looking at... and the one that all the guys want to talk to...

      And guess what? All the guys ARE talking to her.

      To the point where she is both enjoying the attention a little... AND also getting annoyed at them... because they're so THE SAME.

      So with this in mind, guess what it's like to be an attractive woman with an ad on an online dating website?

      Right. It's TEN TIMES worse.

      It's common for a woman to get fifty or even a HUNDRED responses from men in a SINGLE DAY.

      And just like the hot woman in the bar, the attractive woman with the online profile is experiencing one predictable, boring, lame introduction after another...

      "Hi, you're really beautiful. How about I take you out to your favorite restaurant, then to a movie. I'd like to get to know you better..."

      "I realize that I'm probably not your type, but I thought I'd try anyway. If you'd give me a chance, I'd show you that I'm the nicest guy you could ever want..."

      "Hello, read my profile and let me know if you're interested..."
      ***

      Your version:
      "Why Most Men FAIL With Online Dating...
      And What To Do About It... "

      If You Haven't Got The Results With Women Online
      That You Want So Bad.. And That You Deserve.. Then This May Be
      The Most Important Letter You'll Read In Your ENTIRE Life!

      Dear Friend,

      Most guys who try online dating FAIL miserably.

      Online dating SEEMS like a great idea... doesn't it?

      You sit down at your computer, logon to the online dating website or a site like MySpace, start emailing all kinds of hot babes...with no fear of "rejection" or confrontation. And then they email you back, get to know "the real you", build a relationship in a friendly, low-key way, eventually go out on a date with you, and live happily ever after ...

      Wouldn't it be GREAT if that was how it actually worked?

      Well, if you've actually TRIED online dating, then you KNOW it's not like that AT ALL.

      In fact, if you've tried it out, then you know that it can actually be MORE challenging than meeting women in the "real world", face to face...

      Why is this?

      It's this way because almost EVERY GUY is thinking this same "ideal fantasy" about online dating. And the online dating companies aren't exactly telling you how difficult it is to REALLY meet women online (because that would hurt their business - duhh).

      But there's another reason...a more IMPORTANT reason...

      Let me ask you something...

      Have you ever been to an "average" bar or nightclub? You know the kind I'm talking about. It's just OK... the booze is cheap, the music is predictable, and the people are all pretty boring.

      But at every one of those places, there's always a HOT girl or two. She's the one that everyone is looking at... and the one that all the guys want to talk to...

      And guess what? All the guys ARE talking to her.

      To the point where she is both enjoying the attention a little... AND also getting annoyed at them... because they're so THE SAME.

      So with this in mind, guess what it's like to be an attractive woman with an ad on an online dating website?

      Right. It's TEN TIMES worse.

      It's common for a woman to get fifty or even a HUNDRED e-mails or messages from men in a SINGLE DAY.

      And just like the hot woman in the bar, the attractive woman with the online dating profile is experiencing one predictable, boring, lame introduction after another...

      "Hi, you're really beautiful. How about I take you out to your favorite restaurant, then to a movie. I'd like to get to know you better..."

      "I know I'm probably not your type, but I thought I'd give it a try. If you'd give me a chance, I'd show you that I'm the nicest guy you could ever want..."

      "Hello, read my profile and let me know if you're interested..."

      ***

      Swiping is Smart.
      Stealing is Tacky.
      And Stupid.

      Don't assume that because your market is hungry they are also stupid.

      BTW: Your letter uses over 18,000 words to attempt to get your point across. D'Angelo uses half that - a little over 9,000 words - to get the job done, quicker, faster, and much more persuasively.
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  • Profile picture of the author Paul Hancox
    Well spotted, Collette

    Dennis, bringing "hustle" to the table does NOT involve copying and pasting large chunks of other people's sales letters.

    You can copy DeAngelo's STYLE. But don't go using his WORDS. As Collette points out, that's just stealing.

    DeAngelo has been doing this a lot longer than you, and if your potential customers realize what you've done, you're going to have ZERO credibility.

    Quite frankly, it's already made me question whether your product is ALSO just a rip-off of DeAngelo's.
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    • Profile picture of the author Dennis Miedema
      Wow wow guys..chill out..

      This is a TEST version of my sales letter, meaning both my product is different from the one Eben Pagan (David De Angelo) sells AND that I'm trying to figure out which styles of "modules" (i.e.: bullets are a module, the guarantee is a module etc.) work better than my own.

      Because NOW I have a good sense of how long my "intro" should be (I know exactly what I'm selling, but I'm terrible at introducing it...), what kind of headline I should use and so on..and I can use all the feedback you gave me to create my own versions.

      I was going for the style, not the words..lol..what good would it do me if I would copy his stuff word-for-word, put all that time & effort in it..while I could waste a lot less time and energy by working FOR the guy :p

      My "own" version is underway..I just needed some professional feedback because I know absolutely NO ONE in my social circle that tries to do what I'm trying to do..which makes learning pretty hard
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  • Profile picture of the author ZelimirGraf
    Hi Dennis,

    since you`ve received a boat load of good advices, especially from Paul, I`ll just add my two cents. Just to spice things up a bit for you :-)

    I feel like your copy is too monochrome, I`m afraid that you are not capturing the scanners. You are not braking the pattern at all!
    You need some devices in place to pull them in where they jumped out. Your text seems to just flow on and on, without powerful attention grabbers.

    It would be wise to use sidebars, to explain certain parts of the sales letter in more detail. Also, sidebars can be good attention grabbers, if you fill them with provocative topics. Think about that.

    Also, testimonials are way too low. You can even place testimonials in the beginning of the sales letter, in sidebars. I would put them on the left side, because left side is where they start reading, so you can build instant credibility this way. Just make sure you look for the testimonials with a fine tooth comb, to make sure you place the most powerful ones on top.

    Anyway, I hope this helps.

    Best
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    • Profile picture of the author Salespectus
      Hi,

      My observations:

      Your sub-healine, headline and the first few paragraphs don't seem to clearly address the key problem facing your target market and the solution you are offering.

      If I were you, I would also change the first sub-healine at the top to something else.

      For long copies, after I read the sub-headline, headline, and list of benefits, I usually press "control end" on my keyboard. I expect to find the price and the order button near the end of the sales page. There is no price mentioned.

      The phrase "Your total investment is only going to be $99.99 or 5 easy monthly payments of $19.99" is no where near the end of the page. It's a lot of paragraphs from the end going upwards.

      You forced me to back track from the end of the page going upwards through 8 order buttons to find the price!

      I think that's why a majority of your prospects can't see it either. Plus, your copy is way too long and people are skimming the page.

      So your prospects are clicking the order buttons near the end of the page to check out the price.

      If I were you I would put the price close to the order buttons.

      Regards
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  • Profile picture of the author Kelly Verge
    I'm not a copywriter - just a guy who's trying to learn. So like Jesse's comments, my observations are more from the angle of a consumer.

    First, the price is hidden. Among other things, your copy should show that your product is a real value - worth 10x the price, for example. If you've done that, you should be proud of the price.

    When you hide the price, you're telling your prospects that you're embarrassed about it (i.e. you don't believe that your product has the value you've tried to "prove").


    Second, the letter is too wide. Eyes that have to travel too far left-to-right will tire, and your readers will quickly give up. For me, that happened when I realized the first section of bullets ("just a few of the things you'll learn") was 16 screens long. When your bullets cause a reader to lose interest, it's a pretty big problem.

    Which leads to the third thing. The first half of the letter has nothing to catch the attention of skimmers. Unfortunately, by the time I skimmed past the huge block of text, I didn't even slow down in the second half.

    Now for a final caveat: I'm not part of your target market. This could mean that none of the above comments really matter.
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  • Profile picture of the author Dennis Miedema
    Hey Kelly, and the others off course,

    Thanks for all the input... I want to reply to some of it here and there though because one of Kelly''s last sentences is important: you guys are not part of my target market and that means...

    - Yes, people skim...I know, but I don't know a single soul in my target market that does Control + End whenever they land on a page about something they like, because even if the page sucks? They don't even know that Ctrl + End can be used for it

    - Price, price, price...I hear a lot of "it isn't visibles" and am kind of surprised, because I've modelled Eben Pagan's double your dating style of where to put the price + guarantee, and his Double your dating has a gross profit of 25 million a year and what else am I suppose to do? Repeat the price 8 friggin times? have you ever seen any good sales letter doing that?

    - About removing every word that isn't crucial...you could have a point there Daniel.

    But you guys, to be honest? I feel I understand less about copywriting then I did before this topic, and I'm seriously starting to hate writing...and if I'll see the same results during this month and next month?

    I'll just hire my but off until I find something who can do a better job, because I'm an expert in my niche...not a friggin' robo techie nerd that crunches out 5 sales letters a day. As you can tell, I'm annoyed by the "simply" copywriting BS that gurus throw at me. I dare them to write something that works for me bet they can't do it from their ivory white tower as we say in my country
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  • Profile picture of the author Daniel Scott
    Dennis,

    First of all... you have a good set of skills in place already.

    But that last push is the hard part... and if you have the cash to hire, that's probably a good way to do things.

    Your market doesn't use control+end... they just grab the sidebar and scroll down, or use their mouse wheel.

    That's what skimming is.

    As far as I'm concerned the only place you need ot mention the price is when you do the "price justification" part of your copy... although apparently the "Belcher Button" converts like crazy (not something I've personally tested, however... although something I DO usually use as Perry is apparently a testing NUT).

    Any good copywriter should be able to turn this into a pretty sexy piece of copy though.

    -Dan
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