Do you Use NLP/Hypnotic Writing in your Sales Copy/Ads?

49 replies
Have you found success using NLP or 'hypnotic writing' in your sales copy? or have you tried using it?

Is there a special format for NLP when written as opposed to spoken?

Wondering if anyone has done any testing on effectiveness etc.?

Would love anyone to share their experiences
#hypnotic sales copy #hypnotic writing #nlp #nlp or hypnotic #nlp tips #success #writing
  • Profile picture of the author Bill Essley
    I haven't used NLP techniques yet in my copy, but I would like to after I get better at writing my own copy. Here is a website I found that might be useful to you: Using The Power of NLP in Your Sales Copy - Copy Dojo
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  • Profile picture of the author The Pines
    Originally Posted by Shelles View Post

    Have you found success using NLP or 'hypnotic writing' in your sales copy? or have you tried using it?

    Is there a special format for NLP when written as opposed to spoken?

    Wondering if anyone has done any testing on effectiveness etc.?

    Would love anyone to share their experiences

    Could you give some examples of what you regard as good 'hypnotic' copy?
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  • Profile picture of the author Shelles
    I haven't used NLP techniques yet in my copy, but I would like to after I get better at writing my own copy. Here is a website I found that might be useful to you: Using The Power of NLP in Your Sales Copy - Copy Dojo
    Thanks Bill, I picked up a few handy things there
    I've been throwing more NLP into my writing recently and my favorite technique is embedded commands and playing with the font, highlighting, slightly increasing the size or using italics, like...

    "I wouldn’t advise you to buy this training until you feel absolutely sure of the fact that this is the perfect training for you."

    Could you give some examples of what you regard as good 'hypnotic' copy?
    High converting copy...

    I'm not really sure how to answer your question.
    Are you asking for examples of good hypnotic copy or examples of the results I would expect from good hypnotic copy?
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    • Profile picture of the author The Pines
      Originally Posted by Shelles View Post

      Thanks Bill, I picked up a few handy things there
      I've been throwing more NLP into my writing recently and my favorite technique is embedded commands and playing with the font, highlighting, slightly increasing the size or using italics, like...

      "I wouldn't advise you to buy this training until you feel absolutely sure of the fact that this is the perfect training for you."



      High converting copy...

      I'm not really sure how to answer your question.
      Are you asking for examples of good hypnotic copy or examples of the results I would expect from good hypnotic copy?

      Yes, that's exactly what I'm looking for. I'd like to compare styles with other copy.
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    • Profile picture of the author splitTest
      Originally Posted by Shelles View Post

      "I wouldn't advise you to buy this training until you feel absolutely sure of the fact that this is the perfect training for you."
      Thanks Shelles. This is the only example of "neurolinguistic programming" technique I've ever seen posted in any NLP thread. I've seen a similar example in a book I read which mentions NLP in passing.

      I think it's total bullshit. The only marketing success it's probably ever had is in separating gullible copywriting clients from their cash (using regular copywriting methods to sell them on the b.s. NLP concept).

      Does anyone know of any other examples besides highlighting suggestive phrases? Has even this one technique ever been tested?

      It's telling that there are never any examples of NLP copy in these discussions.
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  • Profile picture of the author Andrew Gould
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  • Profile picture of the author J0hnnycl1ckz
    Thanks for posting up these resources guys 'n gals. When I was exploring NLP it seemed difficult to find things other than self-help type seminars. Good reads!
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  • Profile picture of the author Shelles
    There's been some pretty heated discussion before about NLP:

    Do You Use NLP in your salesletters?

    Is NLP Utter Hogwash?
    Thanks Andrew! Wow, there are definitely some strong opinions on the subject...

    While I don't think NLP is "Hogwash"... it's by no means magic.

    I think of NLP (at a basic level), as just being psychology, but more in-depth... copywriters use it (again, at a basic level).. that's what good copy is right?... Note to self: practice being more articulate. lol

    May I ask your opinion on the subject? just out of curiosity..


    Thanks for posting up these resources guys 'n gals. When I was exploring NLP it seemed difficult to find things other than self-help type seminars. Good reads!
    It's definitely started to pop up more recently, this is the site that first sparked my interest of NLP in the written form https://nlphypnoticsalescopy.wordpress.com/
    btw, if you're interested in conversational hypnosis at all, check out Igor Ledochowski
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    • Profile picture of the author Andrew Gould
      Originally Posted by Shelles View Post

      May I ask your opinion on the subject? just out of curiosity..
      My opinion on anything like this is very simple: try it.

      You can spend hours, days, even months reading threads, asking for advice, and trying to work out if it's legit.

      Or you can just start using it and see what happens.

      The worst that can happen is a few split-tests don't improve conversion. But if it does work, you've got a new tool, you've got a potential hook to brand yourself with, and you've got something most (if not all) of these NLP guru types lack - proof that what you're doing works.

      That said...

      I'd follow Pines' advice and make sure you have a rock-solid understanding of the fundamentals of the craft before you go looking at any language voodoo.
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  • Profile picture of the author Shelles
    Yes, that's exactly what I'm looking for. I'd like to compare styles with other copy.
    I'm no expert, looking for some real-life examples myself... but this site has a fair bit of info (first site I ever saw about NLP/Hypnosis in copy)

    https://nlphypnoticsalescopy.wordpress.com/
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    • Profile picture of the author The Pines
      Originally Posted by Shelles View Post

      I'm no expert, looking for some real-life examples myself... but this site has a fair bit of info (first site I ever saw about NLP/Hypnosis in copy)

      https://nlphypnoticsalescopy.wordpress.com/


      That's absolute garbage. It's nearly as bad as the rubbish Joe Vitale tries to palm off on unsuspecting newbies.


      Go back to the basics and get a better grounding in the foundations of good copy. Study anything by the masters - Caples, Kennedy (John E), Bencivenga, Schwartz, Sugarman, Schwab, Halbert, Carlton, Makepeace, to name just a few.


      That site looks like someone who's 'qualified' as an NLP coach, and is now trying to make it as an NLP copywriter, without any understanding of good copy. The NLP and the copy she uses are laughable.
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  • Profile picture of the author Shelles
    That's absolute garbage. It's nearly as bad as the rubbish Joe Vitale tries to palm off on unsuspecting newbies.


    Go back to the basics and get a better grounding in the foundations of good copy. Study anything by the masters - Caples, Kennedy (John E), Bencivenga, Schwartz, Sugarman, Schwab, Halbert, Carlton, Makepeace, to name just a few.


    That site looks like someone who's 'qualified' as an NLP coach, and is now trying to make it as an NLP copywriter, without any understanding of good copy. The NLP and the copy she uses are laughable.
    I'll take your word for it, I found the list of power words and pattern examples interesting and useful.
    I'm assuming your talking about the home page? I haven't actually read that... I admit, it is a crappy looking site, guess that's why I'm on here looking for info...
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  • Profile picture of the author BestSell13
    Does the sales will increase if used sales technique with combination methods of NLP? I have interesting.
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  • Profile picture of the author jessegilbert
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    nlp is interesting. I think it can work.
    maybe if you can mix it with proven principles like AIDA then it could be a booster
    but NLP alone not sure...
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    • Profile picture of the author Memetics
      Originally Posted by jessegilbert View Post

      nlp is interesting. I think it can work.
      maybe if you can mix it with proven principles like AIDA then it could be a booster
      but NLP alone not sure...

      Such a model has existed for about five years now, it's a hybrid between the AIDA model and the (then) latest research in NLP and hypnotic language patterns.

      Persuasion is big business, not just in sales, but also in the political arena where all the best stuff comes from.

      The original model was called "ASIA" and designed around the way the conscious and unconscious, process information into what's known as the "global workspace" - the "I" inside your mind - which acts upon decision hypothesis testing mechanisms for information entering your brain and deciding which is most likely.

      In a concise format this means.

      A Attention (triggering the brain's reticular activation system.)

      S Suspension (of the brain's critical factor.)

      I Insertion (of a desire via unconscious triggering.)

      A Activation (of desire and attenuation of conscious validation.)

      It's a lot more complicated than that, with hundreds of what are called "architectures" but the core principle is sound.

      If anyone has seen any of the Edwards Snowden leaks on covert online persuasion, they show that the methods are even used as training material for influencing public opinion on different political/media forums all across the web.
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  • Profile picture of the author splitTest
    Here's some NLP for you --

    the Wendy's spicy chicken sandwich commercial ("You're thinking about it again..."):

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  • Profile picture of the author jessegilbert
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    nlp is just sort of a funny way to write that appeals to the baser side of the intellect, money sex power etc...

    done correctly, I think it can work and add to a salesletter, and it is can be entertaining to write nlp style with a simple highlighter in MS word. there must be an art to it.

    I bought some of the Vitale letters a while back and they seemed to deliver some additional set of techniques to the copywriters overall philosophy and method.

    NLP can be a part of subheads to, simply bolded text is partially using nlp to highlight certain benefits...
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  • Profile picture of the author Shelles
    My opinion on anything like this is very simple: try it.
    Thanks Andrew and good opinion!
    Definitely an understanding of copywriting is important. To be clear, the link I referenced was not as an example of good copy... actually I haven't even read the home page but I did get some helpful resources from the site.

    Thanks Shelles. This is the only example of "neurolinguistic programming" technique I've ever seen posted in any NLP thread. I've seen a similar example in a book I read which mentions NLP in passing.

    I think it's total bullshit. The only marketing success it's probably ever had is in separating gullible copywriting clients from their cash (using regular copywriting methods to sell them on the b.s. NLP concept).

    Does anyone know of any other examples besides highlighting suggestive phrases? Has even this one technique ever been tested?

    It's telling that there are never any examples of NLP copy in these discussions
    Hey splitTest, the discussion only just got started
    I think, like the previous discussions Andrew referenced earlier, that your opinion of NLP is largely based on what you perceive NLP to be... but look at it from a distance... it's what copywriters are doing already. So I don't think it's bullshit, but if you perceive NLP to be magic that can make anyone do anything, then you're right, it is bullshit.
    P.S check the link I added in my earlier post, yes, the site is shit, but on the left sidebar you'll find links to some golden reference material.

    If anyone has seen any of the Edwards Snowden leaks on covert online persuasion, they show that the methods are even used as training material for influencing public opinion on different political/media forums all across the web.
    Thanks Memetics, I shall check it out... and like everything I will
    Take what you can. Discard what you will. See what happens.
    I definitely agree with Complex and jessegilbert:
    nlp is just sort of a funny way to write that appeals to the baser side of the intellect, money sex power etc...
    Maybe we just have to invent a new name for all this or just call it 'persuasion' because the word "NLP" seems to be 'anchored' to some really negative feelings for a lot of people... you can learn about that in NLP hehe

    Anyways... for splitTest, one tactic that I have used many times when dealing with unpaid/overdue invoices (in my past life!), was "would you rather"... eg. "would you rather <pay online via bpay> or <by credit card over the phone>?". It gives a person two options (both which suit me... getting paid!) and so for one, it appears less aggressive and the other person feels they are in control because they are choosing what 'they want' to do. It works in all sorts of situations, give it a try
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    • Profile picture of the author Andrew Gould
      Originally Posted by Shelles View Post

      Anyways... for splitTest, one tactic that I have used many times when dealing with unpaid/overdue invoices (in my past life!), was "would you rather"...
      That's a classic sales technique known as the alternative close.

      What makes it NLP? And what is NLP? Or at least what is it as it relates to copy?
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    • Profile picture of the author jessegilbert
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      Originally Posted by Shelles View Post

      Thanks Andrew and good opinion!
      Definitely an understanding of copywriting is important. To be clear, the link I referenced was not as an example of good copy... actually I haven't even read the home page but I did get some helpful resources from the site.



      Hey splitTest, the discussion only just got started
      I think, like the previous discussions Andrew referenced earlier, that your opinion of NLP is largely based on what you perceive NLP to be... but look at it from a distance... it's what copywriters are doing already. So I don't think it's bullshit, but if you perceive NLP to be magic that can make anyone do anything, then you're right, it is bullshit.
      P.S check the link I added in my earlier post, yes, the site is shit, but on the left sidebar you'll find links to some golden reference material.



      Thanks Memetics, I shall check it out... and like everything I will

      I definitely agree with Complex and jessegilbert:


      Maybe we just have to invent a new name for all this or just call it 'persuasion' because the word "NLP" seems to be 'anchored' to some really negative feelings for a lot of people... you can learn about that in NLP hehe

      Anyways... for splitTest, one tactic that I have used many times when dealing with unpaid/overdue invoices (in my past life!), was "would you rather"... eg. "would you rather <pay online via bpay> or <by credit card over the phone>?". It gives a person two options (both which suit me... getting paid!) and so for one, it appears less aggressive and the other person feels they are in control because they are choosing what 'they want' to do. It works in all sorts of situations, give it a try
      yes, NLP sort of goes towards MLM or something.
      it is persuasion, simply a subtactic of copywriting or linguistic techniques.
      I think there is definitely validity to it.
      Some dude I met at a conference was using it, and I did think it was funny and I liked the conversational style.

      How about: ELITE PASS

      Emphasis on Linguistic Intellectual Tactics for Enhanced Persuasion And Social Success
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    • Profile picture of the author splitTest
      Originally Posted by Shelles View Post

      Anyways... for splitTest, one tactic that I have used many times when dealing with unpaid/overdue invoices (in my past life!), was "would you rather"... eg. "would you rather <pay online via bpay> or <by credit card over the phone>?". It gives a person two options (both which suit me... getting paid!) and so for one, it appears less aggressive and the other person feels they are in control because they are choosing what 'they want' to do. It works in all sorts of situations, give it a try
      In other words "NLP" is plain-ol' rebranding of persuasion methods we all know and love...

      "programming" = persuasion... "linguistic" = using words... "neuro" = (jeesh) appealing to a prospect's mind...

      Meh. If you really want to get "esoteric", I'd say dive deep into behavioral economics...

      NLP is just a gimmick.
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  • Profile picture of the author gregw
    Here's a little GRIST for the MILL:

    At least for the moment you are speaking (gw: writing), to a very great extent you are orienting the internal processes and attentions of your client. To that extent, you are determining your client's model of the world for that moment. If the object of therapy (gw: copywriting) is to provide the client with compelling opportunties to experience and adopt more satisfying functional models of the world, then the direct link between language and the structure of perceptual and connotative processes must be respected and, when possible, exploited.

    (David Gordon, in a paper titled: "The Role of Language in Therapy",
    published in "Developing Ericksonian Therapy", by Jeffrey K. Zeig and
    Stephen R. Lankton, 1988, Brunner/Mazel, Inc.)

    In order to understand language you have to make all of the same kinds of shifts that we're doing artificially here. Gee that's a terrible problem, wasn't it? Now, in order to compute the language, they focus on the problem...
    "That's a terrible problem..." and in order for it to be PAST TENSE... SOMETHING
    HAS TO CHANGE... Presuppositions are VERY POWERFUL. - Richard Bandler
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  • Profile picture of the author gregw
    Andrew, the short version is...

    John and Rich studied people they considered to be "geniuses" in their fields. Through their study, they discovered some patterns these people used which seemingly made them more successful than their colleagues. They identified, named, synthesized and organized these patterns into a set of simple and learnable techniques which they called NLP.

    I agree, the "would you rather" technique Shelles mentioned, the "alternative close" you mentioned, the "Alternative Choice Close" of Tom Hopkins and J. Douglas Edwards, the "Bind and Double Binds" of Ericksonian Hypnosis all appear to be varying names for the same thing or at the very least varying shades of the same thing.

    To some extent, NLP just has an organized vocabulary for referring to "things".

    Going out on a limb here, I once heard Grinder say something like, "It is by naming things that we call them into individual perceptual references." I could be wrong, but I understood this to mean that the names can be considered "anchors" to refer to some "thing", "event", or "experience" that we can perceive and refer to over and over again.

    The "things" already exist... And others may have a different name for them.

    In "Influence", Robert Cialdini "coined"/"named" 6 "principles". "Influence" is organized, (one to a chapter), around these six principles; consistency, reciprocation, social proof, authority, liking, and scarcity.

    These "principles" existed as copywriting "techniques or elements" prior to Cialdini writing "Influence", yet the "names" have been adopted by many copywriters and internet marketers as useful for referring to "things" in copywriting.

    I've often thought of the "Who Else Wants..." headline referred to by some as "a" "Social Proof" headline, as an NLP Presupposition... "Who ELSE Wants" presupposes or presumes that "someone already does want". the "distinction" of a Presupposition in NLP brings with it some additional possibilities or ways of thinking about it.

    Just my thoughts...
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    • Profile picture of the author Andrew Gould
      Originally Posted by gregw View Post

      To some extent, NLP just has an organized vocabulary for referring to "things".
      So essentially it's just a naming or classification system.

      ]Just my thoughts...
      Thanks for posting.
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      • Profile picture of the author Memetics
        Originally Posted by Andrew Gould View Post

        So essentially it's just a naming or classification system
        In a way it's more to do with changing the meaning and classification of certain words in the prospects mind.

        You take the "concept" of the word and alter it in a way that it links to new semantic nodes in the mind. When the nodes are created they're very malleable at first and can be guided towards certain ends.

        Usually the words in question are nominalizations and abstract in the sense that they have an intrinsic network or pattern in the brain.

        [ a good rule of thumb is : if you can put it in a wheelbarrow then it's not a nominalization, so apples, cats, coins, badgers etc aren't nominalizations as you can wheel them across your garden but concepts like, love, the economy, romance, happiness are nominalizations as you can't ]

        A concept of an apple has a specific neuron which gives the mind the qualia of an apple, no amount of persuasion is going to modify it.

        Whereas a nominalization is a network of neurons which can be adjusted and linked to other concepts by skilled persuasion.

        Control the language and control the thought, this is the basis for all copywtiting.
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        • Profile picture of the author Andrew Gould
          Originally Posted by Memetics View Post

          Whereas a nominalization is a network of neurons which can be adjusted and linked to other concepts by skilled persuasion.
          Thanks for the info.

          So NLP is the process of redefining concepts.

          [And from a writer's perspective, a nominalization is a word, typically a verb, turned into a noun]
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          • Profile picture of the author Memetics
            Originally Posted by Andrew Gould View Post

            Thanks for the info.

            So NLP is the process of redefining concepts.

            [And from a writer's perspective, a nominalization is a word, typically a verb, turned into a noun]
            Here's a better explanation than mine.

            http://www.hypnosis101.com/nlp/hypno...minalizations/

            It doesn't go into the actual neuroscience but you can get the gist of how the brain rewires around concepts.
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          • Profile picture of the author gregw
            Originally Posted by Andrew Gould View Post

            Thanks for the info.

            So NLP is the process of redefining concepts.

            [And from a writer's perspective, a nominalization is a word, typically a verb, turned into a noun]


            Andrew,


            I would say that "one of" the pieces of "NLP" is about "redefining" concepts. The applications for "NLP" go way beyond copywriting.


            Since it's a "communications methodology" it can be used in any area that involves communication. I've often thought of it as an "outcome-based communications methodology", a communications methodology based around achieving outcomes . However I think that is limiting it too much.


            I just wanted to be sure not to present "NLP" as being like a "rope" that the blind man thought that an elephant was, because he was touching it's tale.
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      • Profile picture of the author Marvin Johnston
        Originally Posted by Andrew Gould View Post

        So essentially it's just a naming or classification system..
        Having looked at the links you gave some years ago when they were in progress, I found the idea of NLP interesting.

        The problem arises when people who have no experience start passing along their ignorance... much like a lot of what passes for knowledge in IM .

        Having been studying it for the past couple of years, MY definition of NLP is the use of language to affect other people. And using that definition, I find it hard to believe anyone who called themselves a copywriter would not be interested in finding out more.

        And again using that definition, I would question the credibility of people who say NLP is hogwash... it brings to mind the old saying that ignorance is bliss.

        At this point, I find it incredibly fascinating at how effective NLP patterns can be as well as how covertly these patterns can be used.

        Marvin
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  • Profile picture of the author jessegilbert
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    so instead of being a practicioner of NLP, you are now practicing Elite Pass, a new linguistic doctrine of using emphasis to get access to top levels of marketing and social scenes.
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  • Profile picture of the author gregw
    Andrew,

    I would say that "one of" the pieces of "NLP" is about "redefining" concepts. The applications for "NLP" go way beyond copywriting.

    Since it's a "communications methodology" it can be used in any area that involves communication. I've often thought of it as an "outcome-based communications methodology", a communications methodology based around achieving outcomes . However I think that is limiting it too much.

    I just wanted to be sure not to present "NLP" as being like a "rope" that the blind man thought that an elephant was, because he was touching it's tale.
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  • Profile picture of the author gregw
    Forgive me for the above double-post... I was trying to clean up the extra lines.
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  • Profile picture of the author gregw
    I was just "trolling" the internet and noticed this link from one of Seth Czerepak's LinkedIn pages:

    Google: NLP, Hypnotic Copywriting...what's the REAL "secret sauce" of persuasion?
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    • Profile picture of the author Andrew Gould
      Originally Posted by Memetics View Post

      Here's a better explanation than mine.
      Thanks for the link, Memetics.

      Originally Posted by gregw View Post

      I just wanted to be sure not to present "NLP" as being like a "rope" that the blind man thought that an elephant was, because he was touching it's tale.
      Thanks for the clarification, Greg.

      If I want to study NLP for the purpose of written communication, is there a book you'd recommend?

      Originally Posted by gregw View Post

      I was just "trolling" the internet and noticed this link from one of Seth Czerepak's LinkedIn pages
      It links back to the WF.
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  • Profile picture of the author Profolegy
    Something slightly different. I would just like to drop a few resources while I am flying by...
    By the way I am not selling anything...

    1) Hypnotic Language Patterns that Work? YouTube video with Kevin Hogan

    2) Master Hypnotic Language Patterns in 3 Straightforward Steps with Mark Tyrrell. Blog article.
    Master Hypnotic Language in 3 Straightforward Steps

    3) How Benjamin Franklin Used Hypnotic Language.
    http://www.hypnosis101.com/nlp/hypno...e/ben-franklin

    Now go spew out a load words and see what creation you can come up with.
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    • Profile picture of the author gregw
      Here's another example of a Language Pattern

      Presuppositions are the more powerful of the language patterns, when used by someone who presupposes what he doesn't want to have questioned.

      A general principle is to give the client multiple choices, and yet have each of the choices presuppose the response you want.

      How would you structure your questions?

      "WHILE" is a complex presupposition of a class called Subordinate Clauses of Time.

      These Clauses are identified by the cue words: while, during, as, since, prior, when, before and after, etc. and presuppose more than just the simple existence of some element.

      Here is a short story of 2 priests, both avid smokers, who each wrote a letter to their bishop requesting permission to smoke.

      The 1st priest wrote the following simple letter:

      "Dear Your Eminence,

      Is it alright if I smoke while I pray?"

      The response.....

      "Dear Priest,

      Not just no, but $#&@ NO."

      The Bishop

      The second priest's letter, ( The priest who understood presuppositions), went like this:

      "Dear Your Eminence,

      Is it alright if I pray while I smoke?"

      The reply.....

      "Dear Priest,

      Yes! You can pray anytime.

      The Bishop

      Examining the two questions, the first preist was asking for "Permission to smoke."

      The second priest was asking for "permission to pray," presupposing he was going to smoke.

      There are many OTHER natural environments for presuppositions.
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      • Profile picture of the author Shelles
        Originally Posted by gregw View Post

        Here's another example of a Language Pattern

        Presuppositions are the more powerful of the language patterns, when used by someone who presupposes what he doesn't want to have questioned.

        A general principle is to give the client multiple choices, and yet have each of the choices presuppose the response you want.

        How would you structure your questions?

        "WHILE" is a complex presupposition of a class called Subordinate Clauses of Time.

        These Clauses are identified by the cue words: while, during, as, since, prior, when, before and after, etc. and presuppose more than just the simple existence of some element.

        Here is a short story of 2 priests, both avid smokers, who each wrote a letter to their bishop requesting permission to smoke.

        The 1st priest wrote the following simple letter:

        "Dear Your Eminence,

        Is it alright if I smoke while I pray?"

        The response.....

        "Dear Priest,

        Not just no, but $#&@ NO."

        The Bishop

        The second priest's letter, ( The priest who understood presuppositions), went like this:

        "Dear Your Eminence,

        Is it alright if I pray while I smoke?"

        The reply.....

        "Dear Priest,

        Yes! You can pray anytime.

        The Bishop

        Examining the two questions, the first preist was asking for "Permission to smoke."

        The second priest was asking for "permission to pray," presupposing he was going to smoke.

        There are many OTHER natural environments for presuppositions.
        It's not what you say, it's how you say it!
        "Do you have a pen to sign the contract?"

        Frank Kern in his book "Convert", starts his preface letter with:

        "The purpose of this book is to help you. It is to help you rise to the top of your niche in terms of brand position, sales, goodwill and reputation.

        Another benefit you might experience as a result of deploying what you learn is EASE.

        When you utilize the strategies I show you, you'll become magnetic to your ideal customer ... easily attracting them towards you the way a bright light attracts a moth."

        He uses a few different strategies in there but the ones that stand out to me are...

        Presupposing that you will deploy what you learn.
        Cause and effect... "when you, you will".
        Animating an inanimate object "a bright light attracts a moth"
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        • Profile picture of the author quadagon
          Originally Posted by Memetics View Post

          Such a model has existed for about five years now, it's a hybrid between the AIDA model and the (then) latest research in NLP and hypnotic language patterns.
          You got any links to the research. I've never seen any NLP research that wasn't just either a testimony or an antedote. Would like to read if there has been any scientific research into NLP and its effectiveness


          Usually the words in question are nominalizations and abstract in the sense that they have an intrinsic network or pattern in the brain.
          i have no idea what this means sorry can you explain this
          Signature
          I've got 99 problems but a niche ain't one
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          • Profile picture of the author Memetics
            Originally Posted by quadagon View Post

            You got any links to the research. I've never seen any NLP research that wasn't just either a testimony or an antedote. Would like to read if there has been any scientific research into NLP and its effectiveness
            Just type "NLP" into Google Scholar, same goes for anything that you require peer reviewed scientific research on.



            Originally Posted by quadagon View Post

            i have no idea what this means sorry can you explain this
            Sure, it means that nominalizations aren't tied to a specific neuron which triggers when the senses are exposed to said trigger. A famous example being the "Bill Clinton neuron".

            https://www.newscientist.com/article...-aniston-cell/

            Whereas a nominalization is encoded across a network of neurons known as a distributed representation, it's identified by a unique pattern of activity over groups of neurons.

            Networks of neurons have a plasticity about them which allows new neuronal connections to grow into them, and old ones to wither and die. If you were to take the concept of say "Justice", then the concept has a very large network of neurons linked together which gives you the "Qualia" of the word (the core essence).

            However...a skilled persuasion engineer would tinker with the connections and infiltrate new ones (through presuppositions for example) and change your concept of the word's meaning without you knowing to suit their own agenda.


            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qualia

            A theory of the brain: localist representation is used widely in the brain
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            First we believe.....then we consider.

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  • Profile picture of the author SplashCopy
    I wouldn't say that I've tried NLP per se, but there are a number of scientifically-proven copywriting tips that I follow.

    I think understanding the way we, as humans, operate is key to creating the right copy.
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  • Profile picture of the author Shelles
    In order to understand language you have to make all of the same kinds of shifts that we're doing artificially here. Gee that's a terrible problem, wasn't it? Now, in order to compute the language, they focus on the problem...
    Yes, it was Nice one gregw!

    That's a classic sales technique known as the alternative close.
    Ha! Thanks Andrew, Well go-figure. It's a great technique.

    What makes it NLP? And what is NLP? Or at least what is it as it relates to copy?
    Yes. What?

    On that note...
    Isn't it funny how NLP talks about an individuals 'model of the world'... and everyone here has their own interpretation of what NLP is... the big picture has mostly been the same, but the actual wording/emotions are so very individual... almost as if they are completely different points of view... but they're not
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  • Profile picture of the author Shelles
    To some extent, NLP just has an organized vocabulary for referring to "things".
    gregw, it certainly seems to be the case. If you look at wikipedia (yes, the most trusted source of factual information ha!), even the NLP masters have conflicting ideas of what NLP is.

    How about: ELITE PASS

    Emphasis on Linguistic Intellectual Tactics for Enhanced Persuasion And Social Success
    jessegilbert, I like that!

    so instead of being a practicioner of NLP, you are now practicing Elite Pass, a new linguistic doctrine of using emphasis to get access to top levels of marketing and social scenes.
    hehe interesting choice of colours...
    it's a little strange, but when looking at those colours and the words you've attached to them.. it kinda resonates... must be voodoo! (oops I take that back, let's not go there!).
    Did you actually choose those colours on purpose - colour psychology, adds yet another persuasion/manipulation layer to the mix - or did you randomly choose them... OR maybe you unconsciously chose them on purpose, thereby only 'thinking' you chose them at random hehe


    You take the "concept" of the word and alter it in a way that it links to new semantic nodes in the mind.
    Memetics, I really love the way you've put that. When I say "using words to talk to someone in their own 'language'.".. what I really mean (what I'm 'saying') is what you said hehe
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  • Profile picture of the author DABK
    Two links to articles you'll find interesting:


    7 Scientifically-Backed Copywriting Tips - Copyblogger -

    7 NLP Patterns That Will Turn Your Visitors Into Buyers

    Originally Posted by Shelles View Post

    Have you found success using NLP or 'hypnotic writing' in your sales copy? or have you tried using it?

    Is there a special format for NLP when written as opposed to spoken?

    Wondering if anyone has done any testing on effectiveness etc.?

    Would love anyone to share their experiences
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  • Profile picture of the author max5ty
    Originally Posted by Shelles View Post

    Have you found success using NLP or 'hypnotic writing' in your sales copy? or have you tried using it?

    Is there a special format for NLP when written as opposed to spoken?

    Wondering if anyone has done any testing on effectiveness etc.?

    Would love anyone to share their experiences
    This reminds me of a post I did a couple years ago that led to some interesting discussion...


    http://www.warriorforum.com/copywrit...pywriting.html
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    • Originally Posted by max5ty View Post

      This reminds me of a post I did a couple years ago that led to some interesting discussion...

      http://www.warriorforum.com/copywrit...pywriting.html
      Mebbe now we can fix up levitation an' sawin' a woman in half.

      Thing is (an' you will know this, bein' wizardspawn), magic -- like novels an' movies an' theater -- runs on illusion.

      Evrythin' depends on the narrative flowa selected images, an I love how alla this stuff got two stories in one -- an' how all depends on how they interact.

      With magic, the impossibility (of the bullet caught in the teeth, the woman sawn in two) is bigged up alongside concealed truths, an' I guess the deal here is the thrilla knowin' you are bein' tricked real good.

      Novels an' movies have a similar deal gowin' on, only the selected fantasy obliterates the mechanism deployed to render it -- we are so immersed in the imagry we believe it to be true, an' any 'concealed truth' happened before we picked up the book or sat in the movie theater.

      Theater itself is live, soulful artifice: the truth is simultaneously evident an' concealed as the actress blends vulnerability with veneer.

      NLP is what showed up after the book closed, the movie theater lights dimmed, the actress cast aside her wig, an the magician fixed the two halvesa his curcaceous assistant back together with duct tape -- an' posthumously took credit for the historya storytellin' from the time the first two primordial swamp amoebabeests hitched up their polyps an' made whoopee.
      Signature

      Lightin' fuses is for blowin' stuff togethah.

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  • Comin' from you, Ozi, I take that as a cool compliment.

    Could easily be voiced as a command.
    Signature

    Lightin' fuses is for blowin' stuff togethah.

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  • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
    Originally Posted by Shelles View Post

    Have you found success using NLP or 'hypnotic writing' in your sales copy? or have you tried using it?

    Is there a special format for NLP when written as opposed to spoken?

    Wondering if anyone has done any testing on effectiveness etc.?

    Would love anyone to share their experiences
    like a mallet in a Whack-A-Mole game to

    make certain wannabe copywriters disappear from the board, and although it works, alas, my arm is tired and there are just too many.

    One can tell from the current sub forum here, the status of my withering NLP/disappearing powers and that my NLP tank is running on fumes.

    GordonJ
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