When should a new copywriter get a mentor?

I completely understand Ray.

If you see my post right above this I love to teach.

But, with copy writing I guess maybe I just see it as my work. So, if I get $5K for teaching a person but lose $20K for doing it, then my brain says "why".

I go out of my way to help people in other areas such as nutrition, helping older people learn how to use their computers etc...

Maybe it's just because I do it all day and it's my job and I have to deal with clients enough as is. Not sure.

But, I am glad that you find joy in it.

We should all do what fulfills us.

The above is me just being honest.

Patrick

Well, I taught martial arts for 8 years for free just because I love it.

But, with copy writing (if your being real) such a small percentage are ever really going to "get it" that it just sort of becomes painful after a while.

It's not that I shouldn't be a mentor, it's that I'm one of those guys that if you asked me what I'm allergic to, I'd have to say weak willed people and whiners.

If your being real and not emotional about it because you're invested in it. You know that only about 3% of the people will be truly successful at it. Just like anything else. But, about 1/2 of those people who can't (or really "won't" do it) are weaklings that drain your battery.

My main point was that; if your a truly successful copywriter, unless your doing a class where you fill a room with people who paid you $5K a pop it's not a very good monetary plan.

So, as I mentioned, if you love to teach, cool!!!!!!!!

I love to teach martial arts like I said, so for me it's not even work.

Just different personalities. But, that's what makes the world interesting eh...

Patrick

Sorry, Chad, I think you're on the wrong track there. It's work for the mentor.

Marcia

Ewen - the right environment is definitely a factor.

I mean, think about it. We know that a good deal of copywriting (and marketing in general) is failure.

So someone (in a mentor role) who cannot tactfully walk someone through a failure won't wind up teaching a mentee much.

I discovered the teachability thing when I took on my first junior copywriter-in-training.

I'd give a book or a lesson, ask for this person to read and analyze it. We'd talk some real world applications.

And this person was SO smart that the rules would be internalized to such a degree as to be used to defend work later.

Not necessarily a bad thing, but when someone who's training you to think differently says, "hey, this needs attention and here's why" and you reply with, "but I thought the rule was..."

In fact, we got past our little impasse when I mentioned that being teachable is critical. I can't teach you anything you don't want to learn. And if you're convinced this rule is everything there is, then you can't learn anything else.

I had to be really blunt. I had to be willing to hurt feelings and, unfortunately, rip apart work someone's really proud of to show that they'd missed a critical detail.

Being a mentor is a lot like raising kids, in my mind.

There's a lot of laughing and joking and bonding and fun. War stories, horrible clients, good times at seminars and the like.

But there are a lot of uncomfortable situations and growing pains too, where a mentor has to be able to clearly articulate an area of improvement and do it in such a way as to not make it feel personal.

What we do is already so intensely personal - I know I put a piece of me into everything I create...it's rooted in Angie as a person, a creative, and a salesperson, just channeling the brand/product/market needs.

I was lucky - I had a safe space with my boss/creative director. I had a chance to pitch fantastically ridiculous ideas, to throw out anything crazy I could think of. If it was doable, we tried to sell it to partners and get it executed.

And because I felt safe in falling on my face as far as concepting and pitching and even results were concerned, I also felt safe in knowing that criticism was to challenge me and help me grow.

My boss is very much interested in developing my strengths and he explicitly states as such. And I'm not about to thumb my nose at direct mentorship from someone with 20+ years of experience.

Everything he's said and done in honing my skills has led me to where I am, what I know, how I think and process things. And I'm truly a better writer (and perhaps even a better, more patient person) because of it.

But you have to be so invested in doing better that you don't shut down at the notion of improvement. You have to learn not to fall in love with the idea or the turn of phrase. You have to open your mind to different perspectives and the fact that there's never a one-size-fits-all approach - sometimes you have to use every weapon in your arsenal, and sometimes you know JUST the trick.

And sometimes despite everything you know, the timing wasn't right or the offering wasn't right or the market wasn't targeted correctly. And something fails as a result.

A good mentee? Is a lifelong student. Dedicated to constant self-improvement, even if it's sometimes painful. And knows that even experts get it wrong, so can be humble enough to take great works as credit as well as flops.